[VIDEOS/PICTURES] Kagiso Rabada - A Champion Bowler

[Ab Fan]

There is no doubt he is a top top class bowler and I supported him when other posters belittled him due to loss for form for a short while and some average performance in subcontinent against top sides due to no assistance from his teammates.

However, he certainly has not been able to look as effective vs top sides away from home as Bumrah and Cummins looked in last 4-5 years. He has decimated weaker lineups quite conveniently as compared to stronger lineups away from home which is understandable too but restrains from putting him as top tier ATG like Donald and Steyn despite 300 wickets.

 

[Buffet]

Yup Pollock is ahead of him too. But I think you're underrating Rabada a bit. He doesn't have the benefit of playing for a South African team that was as good as the ones those guys played in. On his day I think he has that ability to destroy teams. Especially in South Africa where he is one of the toughest bowlers to face.

He sure has that ability. One of the toughest bowlers to face in SA conditions, but I expected more from him.

 

[Bewal Express]

There is no doubt he is a top top class bowler and I supported him when other posters belittled him due to loss for form for a short while and some average performance in subcontinent against top sides due to no assistance from his teammates.

However, he certainly has not been able to look as effective vs top sides away from home as Bumrah and Cummins looked in last 4-5 years. He has decimated weaker lineups quite conveniently as compared to stronger lineups away from home which is understandable too but restrains from putting him as top tier ATG like Donald and Steyn despite 300 wickets.

I have criticised him for a while and my reservations still stand. Its a bizarre thing to say but he has never looked himself ever since the De Kock- Warner incident back in 2018. It's not helped that his lengths are a little defensive against the better players on flat tracks. But his statistically his record is amazing.

 

[Majestic]

I have criticised him for a while and my reservations still stand. Its a bizarre thing to say but he has never looked himself ever since the De Kock- Warner incident back in 2018. It's not helped that his lengths are a little defensive against the better players on flat tracks. But his statistically his record is amazing.

Good point, wasn’t at his best vs top teams.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

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And the guy is great to watch, he got that throwback attitude and the action is potent. Am not going to say I go out of my way to watch him every time apart from the Tests, but out of the likes of Cummins, Hazlewood and other fast bowlers Rabada is box office, Starc as well, everyone else is boring.

He's a little reminiscent of Waqar with that potent action and smash-mouth style of bowling/taking wickets. He's seriously destructive when he's in his rhythm.

Personally I think Bumrah and Cummins are ahead of him because of their consistency and ability to take the pitch out of the equation, but he's the man at No. 3.

 

[Mamoon]

304 Test wickets, 21.8 average and 39.3 SR at the age of 29 is far better than 173 Test wickets, 20 average and 44 SR at the age of 30.

Rabada is clearly superior than Bumrah in Test cricket. As simple as that.

 

[Devadwal]

304 Test wickets, 21.8 average and 39.3 SR at the age of 29 is far better than 173 Test wickets, 20 average and 44 SR at the age of 30.

Rabada is clearly superior than Bumrah in Test cricket. As simple as that.

Rabada away stats -
32 Matches ,120 wickets ,26.08 AVG and 48.2 strike rate .

Bumrah Away stats -
27 matches ,126 Wickets ,21.10 AVG and 46.2 Strike rate .

 

[sweep_shot]

Rabada away stats -
32 Matches ,120 wickets ,26.08 AVG and 48.2 strike rate .

Bumrah Away stats -
27 matches ,126 Wickets ,21.10 AVG and 46.2 Strike rate .

All records should be considered. Not just away stats.

 

[Devadwal]

All records should be considered. Not just away stats.

Away record is more important when comes to compared two player's

 

[sweep_shot]

Away record is more important when comes to compared two player's

All records should be taken into considerations. Not just away performances (that's just one aspect).

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

One of the ATG’s, already better than James Anderson.

The third best test pacer of this generation behind Bumrah and Cummins.

Needs to correct his record in Asia if he wants to move ahead of the other two.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Great bowler. another guy who is not getting the appreciation he deserves.

 

[worldlife92]

All records should be considered. Not just away stats.

I do consider Rabada marginally better than Bumrah in Tests for now.

But coming back to your statement, there was an elaborated discussion (which was agreed upon by most of the Pak fans) that why Sachin is not an ATG Test batsman because he just averages 40 in Pakistan.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rabada away stats -
32 Matches ,120 wickets ,26.08 AVG and 48.2 strike rate .

Bumrah Away stats -
27 matches ,126 Wickets ,21.10 AVG and 46.2 Strike rate .

304 Test wickets, 21.8 average and 39.3 SR at the age of 29 is far better than 173 Test wickets, 20 average and 44 SR at the age of 30.

Rabada is clearly superior than Bumrah in Test cricket. As simple as that.

Post away record vs non minnows.

Bumrah -23
Rabada -29

 

[BouncerGuy]

Post away record vs non minnows.

Bumrah -23
Rabada -29

So we should ignore over-all record and just check away record???

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

So we should ignore over-all record and just check away record???

Overall record is also in favour of Bumrah, Rabada leads only in number of wickets.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Overall record is also in favour of Bumrah, Rabada leads only in number of wickets.

Longevity matters. Rabada is good bowler. under-appreciated

 

[BouncerGuy]

Just took a fifer in away condition against Bangladesh. superb spell he bowled and deserved that fifer.

 

[Ab Fan]

So we should ignore over-all record and just check away record???

Take everything into account. If we consider overall record only, Samaraweera> KP/Clarke/Amla.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Bumrah's reign over as South Africa quick claims top bowler ranking

Big changes at the top of the Test rankings with a consistent South Africa pacer re-claiming his place at the head of the bowling charts.

Jasprit Bumrah's reign as the No.1 ranked Test bowler is over with South Africa quick Kagiso Rabada rising to the top and overtaking the India pacer on the latest ICC Men's Test Player Rankings.

Rabada claims the No.1 spot on the back of strong form for the Proteas during the ongoing ICC World Test Championship, with the right-armer taking his 300th Test wicket during South Africa's recent seven-wicket triumph over Bangladesh in Mirpur.

The 29-year-old collected nine wickets during that contest to play a major role in the Proteas' victory and rose three places to jump past Bumrah, Josh Hazlewood and Ravichadran Ashwin in the process to return to the No.1 ranking for Test bowlers for the first time since the start of 2019.

Rabada first held the premier ranking in January 2018 and has been consistently sitting inside the top 10 for the bulk of the time since he relinquished the No.1 spot in February 2019.

Bumrah's reign over as South Africa quick claims top bowler ranking

Big changes at the top of the Test rankings with a consistent South Africa pacer re-claiming his place at the head of the bowling charts.

www.icc-cricket.com

 

[sweep_shot]

He now has 310 Test wickets. He is not even 30!

 

[Ab Fan]

Three Indian bowlers in top 10, dominance continues barring an aberration.

 

[sweep_shot]

Three Indian bowlers in top 10, dominance continues barring an aberration.

Thread is about Rabada. Why bring in Indian bowlers here?

 

[Mamoon]

Rabada and Cummins are the two greatest Test bowlers in the world right now, and both are legends of the game who are almost automatic picks in the respective all time XIs of their countries.

 

[AAli98]

Rabada and Cummins are the two greatest Test bowlers in the world right now, and both are legends of the game who are almost automatic picks in the respective all time XIs of their countries.

SA have a rich history of pace bowlers.. even Brian MacMillan would get ahead of Rabada.

Aus can’t see anyone dropping Lillie Thompson McGrath to accommodate Cummins.

 

[Bewal Express]

Rabada and Cummins are the two greatest Test bowlers in the world right now, and both are legends of the game who are almost automatic picks in the respective all time XIs of their countries.

Rabada Is a good bowler but against good batsman, on flat wickets, he goes missing. He was absolutely dreadful in Australia against good players. On wickets that have something, he still remains a very potent bowler.

 

[sweep_shot]

Rabada and Cummins are the two greatest Test bowlers in the world right now, and both are legends of the game who are almost automatic picks in the respective all time XIs of their countries.

Not sure about automatic picks in their all time XIs.

From South Africa, Donald, Pollock, and Steyn are ahead of Rabada.

From Australia, McGrath, Lillie, and Brett Lee are ahead of Cummins.

 

[Mamoon]

SA have a rich history of pace bowlers.. even Brian MacMillan would get ahead of Rabada.

Aus can’t see anyone dropping Lillie Thompson McGrath to accommodate Cummins.

Rabada Is a good bowler but against good batsman, on flat wickets, he goes missing. He was absolutely dreadful in Australia against good players. On wickets that have something, he still remains a very potent bowler.

Rabada has played in an era where Protea batting has been at its lowest ebb in its rich history. In my opinion, he has suffered greatly because of this.

He would have been a much more potent bowler and a bigger match winner if he had the luxury of having batsmen like Kallis, Smith, ABDV, Amla etc.

I don’t think the likes of Donald and Steyn would have done any better than him in the last 10 years and I don’t think Rabada would have done any worse than them in the 90’s and 2000’s/early 2010’s. This is why I believe he is as good as any fast bowler to have represented the great cricket nation of South Africa.

 

[Mamoon]

Not sure about automatic picks in their all time XIs.

From South Africa, Donald, Pollock, and Steyn are ahead of Rabada.

From Australia, McGrath, Lillie, and Brett Lee are ahead of Cummins.

Answered this in my previous post and there is absolutely no way Lee is ahead of Cummins in Test cricket. Lee wasn’t half the Test bowler Cummins is.

 

[Bewal Express]

Rabada has played in an era where Protea batting has been at its lowest ebb in its rich history. In my opinion, he has suffered greatly because of this.

He would have been a much more potent bowler and a bigger match winner if he had the luxury of having batsmen like Kallis, Smith, ABDV, Amla etc.

I don’t think the likes of Donald and Steyn would have done any better than him in the last 10 years and I don’t think Rabada would have done any worse than them in the 90’s and 2000’s/early 2010’s. This is why I believe he is as good as any fast bowler to have represented the great cricket nation of South Africa.

Rabada before the Warner-QDK fight was on course to be as good as AD and Steyn. Since that and the banning against Ind he has lost his aggression, something fast bowlers need to get the extra yard of pace. He is still good and on wickets with bounce or uneven bounce, he remains amongst the best in the World. But for me on flat wickets he doesn't bowl with aggression or belief and looks just about OK.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not sure about automatic picks in their all time XIs.

From South Africa, Donald, Pollock, and Steyn are ahead of Rabada.

From Australia, McGrath, Lillie, and Brett Lee are ahead of Cummins.

Mcgrath and Lillie yes, Brett Lee no, but in odi Brett lee is > cummins

 

[Ab Fan]

Definitely among the top 5 test bowlers to debut in this millennium(2001 onwards). The top 5 includes,

1. Dale Steyn
2. Pat Cummins
3. KG Rabada
4. Ravichandran Ashwin
5. James Anderson

Steyn and Cummins are top two purely on quality while Rabada, Ashwin and Anderson completes the top 5 combining longevity and quality both. Bumrah and Lyon misses out due to lack of longevity and late bloomer respectively.

Once Bumrah picks 200+ test wickets ,he will not only be in reckoning but make strong claim for a spot there especially if that average stays at 20 while for Lyon, he needs to take that average under 30 and he will be in contention too.

 

[sweep_shot]

Definitely among the top 5 test bowlers to debut in this millennium(2001 onwards). The top 5 includes,

1. Dale Steyn
2. Pat Cummins
3. KG Rabada
4. Ravichandran Ashwin
5. James Anderson

Steyn and Cummins are top two purely on quality while Rabada, Ashwin and Anderson completes the top 5 combining longevity and quality both. Bumrah and Lyon misses out due to lack of longevity and late bloomer respectively.

Once Bumrah picks 200+ test wickets ,he will not only be in reckoning but make strong claim for a spot there especially if that average stays at 20 while for Lyon, he needs to take that average under 30 and he will be in contention too.

Glad you didn't add Bumrah.

I personally feel a bowler can't be an ATG, unless he has at least 250 Test wickets (due to factors like longevity and fitness).

 

[Ab Fan]

Glad you didn't add Bumrah.

I personally feel a bowler can't be an ATG, unless he has at least 250 Test wickets (due to factors like longevity and fitness).

I have the criteria as 250 test wickets too for ATG but here I didn’t mentioned the list of ATG bowlers. Even for this list also I would have criteria as 250 test wickets, however, in case of Bumrah or any upcoming Asian pacer, we need to understand that they will not get to pick bucketload of wickets in home conditions or in Asia for that matter. So, their WPM will remain lower than SENA pacers and vice versa applies to SENA spinners too when compared with Asian spinners.

Someone like Swann for example cant be undermined based on longevity and hence same goes for Asian pacers too but 200 wickets must be a minimum criteria. It can’t be lower than that.

 

[Buffet]

He is still good and on wickets with bounce or uneven bounce, he remains amongst the best in the World. But for me on flat wickets he doesn't bowl with aggression or belief and looks just about OK.

Spot on observation. Wi has uneven bounce so his style of bowling works there. If you see Rabada's output in other places, he has been at Morkel's level and not at Steyn/Donald level.

Rabada in Ind, Aus, NZ, Eng, Pak, SL - just 3 5-fers with avg of 29.

Not much different than Morkel.

 

[Buffet]

He is still good and on wickets with bounce or uneven bounce, he remains amongst the best in the World. But for me on flat wickets he doesn't bowl with aggression or belief and looks just about OK.

Before some one says that we shouldn't compare Rabada with Steyn or Donald due to playing in differnet era.

Here are all pacers with 50 plus wickets since Rabada debuted.

Rabada is gun in home conditions and very good in uneven bounce.

 

[Bewal Express]

Spot on observation. Wi has uneven bounce so his style of bowling works there. If you see Rabada's output in other places, he has been at Morkel's level and not at Steyn/Donald level.

Rabada in Ind, Aus, NZ, Eng, Pak, SL - just 3 5-fers with avg of 29.

Not much different than Morkel.

View attachment 147216

All my observations are anecdotal. Statistics are very important but I trust my instinct. He is a very good bowler but at this point in time he isn't aggressive enough on flat wickets to be considered any better

 

[Ab Fan]

Another reason why Bumrah should be in contention once he reaches overall 200 test wickets is that even in his short career, he already has contributed in 2 test series wins in Australia and was player of series in test series drawn in South Africa and England. When you have such huge impact, longevity is just a non relevant factor.

 

[Bewal Express]

Another reason why Bumrah should be in contention once he reaches overall 200 test wickets is that even in his short career, he already has contributed in 2 test series wins in Australia and was player of series in test series drawn in South Africa and England. When you have such huge impact, longevity is just a non relevant factor.

I agree Bumrah has been amazing and has been for a while.

 

[Mamoon]

Before some one says that we shouldn't compare Rabada with Steyn or Donald due to playing in differnet era.

Here are all pacers with 50 plus wickets since Rabada debuted.

Rabada is gun in home conditions and very good in uneven bounce.

View attachment 147217

Good to know that Abbas is better than Cummins.

 

[Buffet]

All my observations are anecdotal. Statistics are very important but I trust my instinct. He is a very good bowler but at this point in time he isn't aggressive enough on flat wickets to be considered any better

He still has time to elevate his game but looks less likely. Very high chance to end up as the 4th best pacer since SA readmission. Donald/Steyn were in different class. Pollock was a tier above him. If he can overtake Pollock then that will be a good outcome.

 

[sweep_shot]

He still has time to elevate his game but looks less likely. Very high chance to end up as the 4th best pacer since SA readmission. Donald/Steyn were in different class. Pollock was a tier above him. If he can overtake Pollock then that will be a good outcome.

Even if Rabada overtakes Pollock in terms of wicket counts, I think Pollock would be a superior bowler.

Quality over quantity.

 

[Bewal Express]

He still has time to elevate his game but looks less likely. Very high chance to end up as the 4th best pacer since SA readmission. Donald/Steyn were in different class. Pollock was a tier above him. If he can overtake Pollock then that will be a good outcome.

The early Pollock was but Pollack post 99 slowed down too much. He was still very good but not the same impact against good teams

 

[Bewal Express]

He still has time to elevate his game but looks less likely. Very high chance to end up as the 4th best pacer since SA readmission. Donald/Steyn were in different class. Pollock was a tier above him. If he can overtake Pollock then that will be a good outcome.

I think he is trying too hard to extend his career and because of that he is bowling at a pace which, still decent, isn't going to worry the better players on flat wickets. The other issue is the Seam, which isn't terrible but isn't as upright as it should be for a top bowler

 

[BouncerGuy]

The champion bowler has just got another fifer in away conditions. This guy has been so under-rated.

 

[Mamoon]

The champion bowler has just got another fifer in away conditions. This guy has been so under-rated.

Indians overrating their cricketers and giving GOAT status to someone who has less than 200 Test wickets at the age of 30 has directly resulted in great cricketers like Rabada slipping under the radar. He is a better Test pacer than anyone in the entire history of Indian cricket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I have criticised him for a while and my reservations still stand. Its a bizarre thing to say but he has never looked himself ever since the De Kock- Warner incident back in 2018. It's not helped that his lengths are a little defensive against the better players on flat tracks. But his statistically his record is amazing.

He had a back stress injury after that. And yeah his pace hasnt been consistently up there since.

Blame CSA for their lack of workload monitoring. They never managed him as well as they managed Steyn.

 

[TheSultan]

I’m not in to stats much but you can’t argue with a strike rate of 38. And it’s not even a small sample size. It’s phenomenal. No bowler in the current era can overtake him.

Officially Kagiso Rabada is the GOAT of this era. No one comes close.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Officially Kagiso Rabada is the GOAT of this era. No one comes close.

This is true. Very True. He has been phenomenal not just at home but away as well. Look at his stats in Red-ball:

 

[TheSultan]

The early Pollock was but Pollack post 99 slowed down too much. He was still very good but not the same impact against good teams

Pollock was a bona fide boring trundler for most of his career. He only impressed me in his debut series vs England.

Rabada overtook him long time ago

 

[Bewal Express]

Pollock was a bona fide boring trundler for most of his career. He only impressed me in his debut series vs England.

Rabada overtook him long time ago

I think he was good until the 99 WC and then self preservation became the name of the game

 

[sweep_shot]

Pollock was a bona fide boring trundler for most of his career. He only impressed me in his debut series vs England.

Rabada overtook him long time ago

Pollock has 421 Test wickets and 393 ODI wickets. South African legend.

He was very accurate.

Anyway, I think Rabada hasn't surpassed Pollock yet.

 

[TheSultan]

Pollock has 421 Test wickets and 393 ODI wickets. South African legend.

He was very accurate.

Anyway, I think Rabada hasn't surpassed Pollock yet.

Pollock’s test strike rate is 57.8 - that’s abysmal. That’s a 20 ball difference - over 3 overs.

Rabada is not some newcomer. He has over 300 wickets. He’s surpassed him easily.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I would take Rabada over Pollock.

Rabada is a sure shot ATG for me.

Bumrah needs to take 220+ wkts maintaining his current stats and he will also be rated as an ATG.

Based on stats and logic I would rate Bumrah ahead of the others but he needs to take atleast 220+ wkts to be remembered as an ATG.

 

[Buffet]

The early Pollock was but Pollack post 99 slowed down too much. He was still very good but not the same impact against good teams

Pollock was fantastic till the end of 2001. That's 7 years of career and way more than most bowlers maintain that standard.

For 7 years , Pollock was as good as anyone and not just home track or weak team bully. He declined a lot by just maintaining his average after that and lost the ability to run thorugh batting line ups in test format. In ODI, he remianed the the top class bowler for entire career and I think one of the top 5 ODI bowlers to play cricket due to how hard it was to hit Pollock.


7 years : away from home for all pacers.




7 years over all for all pacers:

 

[Bewal Express]

For me AD will always be tops. He missed 6 years at the start of his career because of isolation. Although this may have extended his career at the end, i still think he lost around 120 wickets from tests. He was just a brilliant bowler and he would be just ahead of Steyn, who was also brilliant. Rabada has to win in Ind with a dominant performances and he would go ahead just ahead of Pollack. Ntini would be just below these 2.

 

[Buffet]

I’m not in to stats much but you can’t argue with a strike rate of 38. And it’s not even a small sample size. It’s phenomenal. No bowler in the current era can overtake him.

Officially Kagiso Rabada is the GOAT of this era. No one comes close.

I will go easy on his performance based on playing on SA pitches.

The last 6 years in SA, entire SA bowling line up has SR in 30s with very good average. Look at top 6 pacers in SA in the last 6 years. You play on these pitches for a long period, you will rack up impressive over all numbers despite being several notches below when you step out of these conditions.




In the same 6 years, here is Rabada away from home in Aus, Eng, PAk, SL, NZ, Ind

 

[Buffet]

For me AD will always be tops. He missed 6 years at the start of his career because of isolation. Although this may have extended his career at the end, i still think he lost around 120 wickets from tests. He was just a brilliant bowler and he would be just ahead of Steyn, who was also brilliant. Rabada has to win in Ind with a dominant performances and he would go ahead just ahead of Pollack. Ntini would be just below these 2.

If he can do that, I wil rate Rabada higher.

So far Rabada has very ordinary performance over all in Aus, Ind, SL, Eng, NZ, Pak - only 3 5-fers with avg 29.

 

[Buffet]

Rabada is a sure shot ATG for me.

Top 6 opposition during his playing days will be Aus, Eng, Ind, NZ, SL, Pak

He has grand total of 3 5-fers with average of 29 in these venues. Have you seen a single ATG with performance like this?

Yes, you can average higher due to flatter wickets, but you got to run through opposition few times to help your team win.

He is no where close to ATG and comfortably below Pollock for me. Pollock gets criticized in PP, but Pollock has 6 5-fers in these countries with avg of 26. And in ODI, he is so far ahead of Rabada that it's futile to compare.

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 6 opposition during his playing days will be Aus, Eng, Ind, NZ, SL, Pak

He has grand total of 3 5-fers with average of 29 in these venues. Have you seen a single ATG with performance like this?

Yes, you can average higher due to flatter wickets, but you got to run through opposition few times to help your team win.

He is no where close to ATG and comfortably below Pollock for me. Pollock gets criticized in PP, but Pollock has 6 5-fers in these countries with avg of 26. And in ODI, he is so far ahead of Rabada that it's futile to compare.

Some players are far too dominant in conditions home-alike and some are just good in those conditions. The former deserves a bit of credit for ensuring that their home performance remains dominant for most part of their career, like we have noticed in case of Ashwin, Anderson, Rabada, Root etc.

In a similar manner, if Lyon, Kohli, Amla and a few others would have been more dominant at home, they could have avoided the series loss they faced at home.

A truly great is the one that is dominant at home and excellent away. Such players are very rare. Only Steyn, S Smith are two names I can think of to debut in this millennium. Hence, there is a need to widen the range if we want to include more quality players in that group especially if they are such phenomenal match winners in certain conditions.

 

[Buffet]

Some players are far too dominant in conditions home-alike and some are just good in those conditions. The former deserves a bit of credit for ensuring that their home performance remains dominant for most part of their career, like we have noticed in case of Ashwin, Anderson, Rabada, Root etc.

I have no issue in giving credit for home performance. But if you can't turn it on when you play against good teams away then you lack something. I will be more forgiving to a spinner because they are more condition dependent, but pacers, come on. If a pacer can't run through top home team's batting line ups few times then you are not anywhere close to ATG for me.

No issue, if some one has a much lower criterion for ATG. I draw a line for greatness. Heavy scoring against good home teams or running through batting line ups against good home teams.

Sure shot ATG for me are players who are contender for all time world XI. Not talking about guranteed spot but a contender. After that you can start relaxing criterion and include lower tier ATG. And then you are left with very good players. None of the palyers you listed are in class of sure shot ATG, but you can surely debate if they belong in lower tier ATG or belong in list of very good players.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Top 6 opposition during his playing days will be Aus, Eng, Ind, NZ, SL, Pak

He has grand total of 3 5-fers with average of 29 in these venues. Have you seen a single ATG with performance like this?

Yes, you can average higher due to flatter wickets, but you got to run through opposition few times to help your team win.

He is no where close to ATG and comfortably below Pollock for me. Pollock gets criticized in PP, but Pollock has 6 5-fers in these countries with avg of 26. And in ODI, he is so far ahead of Rabada that it's futile to compare.

I do know that Rabada struggles on flat track vs top teams, the reason I rate him higher than Pollock is because he is the leader of the pack, I dont think Pollock ever was in that role and if he was he didn't really prosper in it.

Pollock has better balanced record but I rate leaders of the attack more than "ATG support bowlers" provided that the former has a very good record too.

Rabada has a great record in SRL and Ban but has struggled in India like Cummins. The thing is I should have written he is a sureshot ATG for me given that he is just 29 right now and will most likely retire with 500 wkts at less than 23-24 avg, that is a sureshot ATG for me.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If he can do that, I wil rate Rabada higher.

So far Rabada has very ordinary performance over all in Aus, Ind, SL, Eng, NZ, Pak - only 3 5-fers with avg 29.
View attachment 147229

Overall stats do tell a story but the reason behind this 29 average is India and Pakistan where he has struggled , His record in Aus, Eng, Nz is pretty good, same goes for SRL and bangladesh.

 

[Super Santi]

His stats are amazing.

Can anyone tell me what he is exceptional at?

Whenever I watch him I always think he looks like he is very good at everything but there isn’t one thing that stands out.

From reading some earlier comments it seems like a lot of people like his action.

Unless England come up with a good pacer in the future might be the only one who may have any chance of catching Anderson.

 

[TheSultan]

Top 6 opposition during his playing days will be Aus, Eng, Ind, NZ, SL, Pak

He has grand total of 3 5-fers with average of 29 in these venues. Have you seen a single ATG with performance like this?

Yes, you can average higher due to flatter wickets, but you got to run through opposition few times to help your team win.

He is no where close to ATG and comfortably below Pollock for me. Pollock gets criticized in PP, but Pollock has 6 5-fers in these countries with avg of 26. And in ODI, he is so far ahead of Rabada that it's futile to compare.

How many times are you going to do these nitpicking analysis. I’ve dismantled your argument on the Waqar thread and now you do the same thing here.

Yes Rabada needs improvement in pak and India, but your purposely tried to tell a story from your lense massaging the stats as much as possible to try and be convincing.

Rabada is not alone having a poor record in India and Pakistan. Check out Lillee and Hadlee’s records there.

Regardless he’s done well vs Aus, NZ and England

 

[Bewal Express]

An ATG needs to have-
- great statistics- no top bowler or batsman has just good or average stats
- Needs to perform in all conditions given a fair sample
- score runs/take wickets against the best batsman or best bowlers
- A bowler must firstly,take out the top 4 batsman and secondly the top 7 batsman.
- produce when needed. This is very subjective

 

[Ab Fan]

Shaun Pollock averaged 20.7 when he reached 300 test wickets in 73 tests. Post that he declined big time. If Rabada can avoid that decline, he should go past 450 test wickets comfortably.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think he was good until the 99 WC and then self preservation became the name of the game

There were no speed guns before the 99 World Cup. We don't know if he was genuinely much quicker before that.

 

[kron]

An ATG needs to have-
- great statistics- no top bowler or batsman has just good or average stats
- Needs to perform in all conditions given a fair sample
- score runs/take wickets against the best batsman or best bowlers
- A bowler must firstly,take out the top 4 batsman and secondly the top 7 batsman.
- produce when needed. This is very subjective

last 2 is nothing. but yea rest i agree with. as long as he helps his team win and averages well thats good.

 

[Bewal Express]

last 2 is nothing. but yea rest i agree with. as long as he helps his team win and averages well thats good.

An All time great bowler must take out the top 4 batsman because they are the high value wickets. Taking out Devon Malcolm and Phil Tufnell isn't as valuable as taking out Viv Richards and Brian Lara.

 

[Bewal Express]

There were no speed guns before the 99 World Cup. We don't know if he was genuinely much quicker before that.

He was certainly hitting people

 

[kron]

An All time great bowler must take out the top 4 batsman because they are the high value wickets. Taking out Devon Malcolm and Phil Tufnell isn't as valuable as taking out Viv Richards and Brian Lara.

Lot of times tail wags alot. Especially vs tired bowlers. Getting out tail is a skill. Not that easy.

There is a reason why india missed a bowler like bumrha during 2011 to 2014 period when we were in transition. Always need a player who can rip through the tail.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lot of times tail wags alot. Especially vs tired bowlers. Getting out tail is a skill. Not that easy.

There is a reason why india missed a bowler like bumrha during 2011 to 2014 period when we were in transition. Always need a player who can rip through the tail.

True but the game is generally won and lost by the top 4. The tail may win the odd game or make the crucial runs at the end but if you don't get the top 4 out, you won't even get to bowl at the tail

 

[kron]

yo

True but the game is generally won and lost by the top 4. The tail may win the odd game or make the crucial runs at the end but if you don't get the top 4 out, you won't even get to bowl at the tail

you need both imo
complete bowler needs both

lot of very good bowlers struggled to get rid of tail. philander, zaheer, even anderson broad at times. starc hazlewood let guys like ashwin off the hook.

 

[Bewal Express]

yo

you need both imo
complete bowler needs both

lot of very good bowlers struggled to get rid of tail. philander, zaheer, even anderson broad at times. starc hazlewood let guys like ashwin off the hook.

I agree You do as ATG but for me the more important aspect is the top 4. You don't get then out, you never get to bowl at the tail.

 

[FearlessRoar]

South Africa Bowlers Relieved Their Batters Are Finding Form, Rabada Is 'More Than Happy'​

A significant improvement in South Africa’s test batting form over the last year, culminating in a convincing two-test series win in Bangladesh this week, has been welcomed by a once beleaguered bowling unit.

Kagiso Rabada, who took 14 wickets in test wins in Dhaka and Chittagong to return to number one in the International Cricket Council’s test bowler rankings, said there was no longer as much pressure on the bowlers to try and win Tests.

South Africa amassed 308 runs in the first innings and 106-3 to secure victory in the first test by seven wickets and then 575-6 declared in the second test before winning by an innings and 273 runs.

It included three centuries from players scoring a maiden test ton, which was only the second time that had happened in test cricket, as South Africa won the toss and batted for more than a day and a half.

“Whenever we get two days to put our feet up, I’m c," Rabada told a Friday press conference as the South Africans prepared to return home.

“So if we can sleep, you know, whilst they’re batting, that’s fantastic, so they must keep it up," he quipped.

“But yes, there is a confidence because of the performances that the guys have put in, and especially coming to the subcontinent and beating Bangladesh. I mean, that’s no easy feat."

The 29-year-old Rabada said he had noted a major improvement in batting form at the start of the year when India played a two-match series in South Africa that was drawn.

“I was very impressed with our batting when India came to South Africa. I think that’s when it really struck for me. The wickets were spicy, but you had guys who put their hands up in that series. And conditions were tough to bat.

“Perhaps, conditions were a little bit easier (in Bangladesh), but you still have to do the work."

Rabada said the team had gone through a transition phase but were now finding their feet.

“I think we almost like coming into a bit of a sweet spot. I’ve been really impressed with the guys that have recently come on board and how they’re making an impact," he added.

South Africa Bowlers Relieved Their Batters Are Finding Form, Rabada Is 'More Than Happy' - News18

Kagiso Rabada said he had noted a major improvement in South Africa's batting form at the start of the year.

www.news18.com

 

[Mamoon]

To add to the above, and to reiterate what I said previously, Rabada has been extremely unlucky to play in an era where South Africa batting has been at its lowest ebb since readmission.

Given the circumstances and environment surrounding South African cricket in the last 10 years, I firmly believe that the likes of Donald and Steyn would have done any better than Rabada or he would have done any worse than them in the 90s, 2000s and early 2010s.

This is why I refuse to succumb to the Indian propaganda that he is inferior to Mickey Mouse Test bowlers like Bumrah who have less than 200 wickets by the age of 31.

 

[Ab Fan]

That’s like saying I refuse to succumb to English propaganda that Harbhajan is inferior to Mickey Mouse test bowlers like Swann who have less than 260 wickets and retired.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Kagiso has stats and wickets behind him to show why he should be respected as a bowler. Not many times you will see such talented bowler.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Rabada delivered impressive spell against Pakistan tonight where he took 3/56.

I don't understand his exclusion from the 2nd ODI when he already have excellent record against Pakistan.