hadi123
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Good contribution but he gave it away. Could have cost us another day, once you're set you can't be getting out to mediocre bowlers. SA couldn't believe it themselves.
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[VIDEOS/PICTURES] Will Babar Azam revolutionise the batting culture in Pakistan?
- Thread starter Sunny_majoka
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Syed1
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You say that on a day where Babar scored 49 while chasing
I don't think it was a good knock. Looked selfish from the offset
He has played much better than that in recent times. This was the old selfish babar again
He came in when rrr was 5.28 and got out 20 overs laters with rrr @ 5.8 no other wicket was lost during that time period.Some time its ok to whine and criticise and criticising just for the sake of it is annoying
Sunny_majoka
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Seems like you didn't played any cricket in your life. And don't understand either.
JibranAnsari
Test Captain
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Babar is a good player with some limits , he usually likes pace off the wicket and yesterday the pitch was playing a bit differently. In the coming matches (if he does not get out early) you will see that he will score runs much quicker
Mobashir
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Wow!
When Babar got out, the match was in pakistan's hand with RRR under 6. So how was that selfish?
saeed5646
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I liked his yesterday inning he was not at his best and was not finding his groove but due to his strong temperament he grind out to 49 which was impressive
Madplayer
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Infact his dismissal was kinda anti climatic. Never looked like getting out and got out to the most harmless delivery.
saeed5646
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yeah it is ordinary dismissal tbh he was selfish for his fifty before getting out his last 3 to 4 ball was dot
All of Engs batsmen have 90/95+ strike rate and look at their success. That shows modern day cricket is all about scoring at fast rate. Babars SR isn't good enough and there's no sign of improvement.
If you see batting stats of all the batsmen since babars debut, you will see there are many batsmen avging 45+,50+ and most of them have strike rate in 90s. Compare those stats with Babar 's and his number will look ordinary.
Malik and Fakhar have better ODI stats than Babar since Babar's debut that's y when they fail Pakistan get into trouble but if Babar fails n Fakhar or Malik fire we look alright
Exactly , root and Babar play similar roles and the others need to go ballistic.
List me the batters with 45+ AVG and 90+ SR
The Indian top 3 are getting to ATG level so put them aside
My guess is Ross Taylor and David Warner are the only guys close to 45/90
You will have guys who are 35-40 who go at the 95sr and the guys who average 50 are between 80/85 sr
Babar role is the Williamson and root role. AVG higher, bat longer and slightl lower sr whilst others have fun
Root's numbers since Babar's debut
Avg :60,SR: 90.
Babar's numbers since his debut
Avg : 50, SR : 83 ( and has one of the highest dot balls ratio in the world)
You are ignoring the fact that conditions got flatter and flatter since 2013 (year in which Root debuted) and Root adjusted with conditions getting flatter, he picked up his strike rate. Where are the improvements in Babars case ? In fact, his strike rate has gone down in the past few years. He is getting comfortable that he's doing alright n there is no need for improvement because of all the blind supports he gets. Whereas there was talk of Root getting dropped from eng side during the last ODI series because they see him as a misfit in how they want to play on flat conditions. While look at us we consider Babar as our best ODI batsman with a strike rate of 82-83 and with all his dot ball problems.
For me Fakhar is our best ODI batsman followed by Malik and Hafeez.
If we include Sharjeel and Saud in the team they will challenge Fakhar for best batsman tag. Babar is way way behind
Ok so do we now need to compare Babar 1st 4 years Vs root 1st 4 years?
Or their T20 records to see who can score faster more consistently?
I don't think pitches have got flatter, they have just been flat for a while now. England have the line up to go flat out around root and we don't. That is the difference between the 2 batting sides.
Also root sweeps better than Babar which is a very underrated shot in odi cricket, because it allows u to manouevre the field and minimise dot balls. He needs to work on that.
He is our best bat by a fair way though. I feel confident we can chase 250+scores with him and previously this has been a massive problem area for us historically in misbah days and before.
That is because we have a guy who can hold his end up,
Nobody is saying he is the finished article, but he is an important part of this team.
Last edited:
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
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Completely wrong with regards to the dot-ball ratio. In fact, he has the lowest dot-ball ratio amongst Pakistani batsmen after Sarfaraz and very good numbers overall.
The following table calculates batsmen's batting strike-rates when boundaries are removed from the equation. Doesn't exactly give a perfect picture regarding dot balls as 2s, 3s are also in the equation but over a good sample size, you can get a good idea. All batsmen with 1000+ ODI runs since Babar debuted are included in the list.
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Player[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][td]SR-4s/6s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AB de Villiers (SA)[/td][td]39[/td][td]8[/td][td]1636[/td][td]176[/td][td]52.77[/td][td]1462[/td][td]111.90[/td][td]5[/td][td]7[/td][td]127[/td][td]44[/td][td]66.92[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JC Buttler (ENG)[/td][td]54[/td][td]14[/td][td]1896[/td][td]129[/td][td]47.40[/td][td]1565[/td][td]121.15[/td][td]5[/td][td]11[/td][td]164[/td][td]61[/td][td]65.22[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sarfraz Ahmed (PAK)[/td][td]43[/td][td]10[/td][td]1209[/td][td]105[/td][td]36.63[/td][td]1374[/td][td]87.99[/td][td]1[/td][td]8[/td][td]97[/td][td]4[/td][td]62.61[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA)[/td][td]61[/td][td]14[/td][td]3848[/td][td]160*[/td][td]81.87[/td][td]3913[/td][td]98.33[/td][td]17[/td][td]15[/td][td]344[/td][td]52[/td][td]61.42[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Root (ENG)[/td][td]65[/td][td]14[/td][td]3144[/td][td]133*[/td][td]61.64[/td][td]3483[/td][td]90.26[/td][td]9[/td][td]21[/td][td]258[/td][td]25[/td][td]61.31[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DA Miller (SA)[/td][td]38[/td][td]9[/td][td]1159[/td][td]139[/td][td]39.96[/td][td]1153[/td][td]100.52[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]89[/td][td]31[/td][td]59.73[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis (SA)[/td][td]48[/td][td]8[/td][td]2350[/td][td]185[/td][td]58.75[/td][td]2522[/td][td]93.18[/td][td]6[/td][td]14[/td][td]218[/td][td]26[/td][td]58.03[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LRPL Taylor (NZ)[/td][td]48[/td][td]11[/td][td]2580[/td][td]181*[/td][td]69.72[/td][td]2969[/td][td]86.89[/td][td]8[/td][td]15[/td][td]211[/td][td]25[/td][td]58.03[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DA Warner (AUS)[/td][td]44[/td][td]3[/td][td]2296[/td][td]179[/td][td]56.00[/td][td]2213[/td][td]103.75[/td][td]10[/td][td]7[/td][td]239[/td][td]38[/td][td]57.44[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam (PAK)[/td][td]53[/td][td]8[/td][td]2316[/td][td]125*[/td][td]51.46[/td][td]2743[/td][td]84.43[/td][td]8[/td][td]9[/td][td]185[/td][td]22[/td][td]56.94[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Nabi (AFG)[/td][td]49[/td][td]5[/td][td]1276[/td][td]116[/td][td]29.00[/td][td]1455[/td][td]87.69[/td][td]1[/td][td]5[/td][td]78[/td][td]34[/td][td]56.59[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JO Holder (WI)[/td][td]49[/td][td]10[/td][td]1106[/td][td]99*[/td][td]28.35[/td][td]1183[/td][td]93.49[/td][td]0[/td][td]5[/td][td]72[/td][td]35[/td][td]56.51[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shoaib Malik (PAK)[/td][td]52[/td][td]14[/td][td]1658[/td][td]101*[/td][td]43.63[/td][td]1818[/td][td]91.19[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]113[/td][td]47[/td][td]55.73[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH)[/td][td]40[/td][td]2[/td][td]1366[/td][td]114[/td][td]35.94[/td][td]1614[/td][td]84.63[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]129[/td][td]6[/td][td]55.04[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JP Duminy (SA)[/td][td]47[/td][td]8[/td][td]1208[/td][td]92[/td][td]30.97[/td][td]1428[/td][td]84.59[/td][td]0[/td][td]7[/td][td]94[/td][td]18[/td][td]55.02[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH)[/td][td]46[/td][td]10[/td][td]1675[/td][td]144[/td][td]46.52[/td][td]1990[/td][td]84.17[/td][td]3[/td][td]10[/td][td]131[/td][td]24[/td][td]54.88[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith (AUS)[/td][td]49[/td][td]5[/td][td]1882[/td][td]164[/td][td]42.77[/td][td]2240[/td][td]84.01[/td][td]4[/td][td]12[/td][td]162[/td][td]18[/td][td]54.66[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TWM Latham (NZ)[/td][td]49[/td][td]4[/td][td]1701[/td][td]137[/td][td]37.80[/td][td]1982[/td][td]85.82[/td][td]4[/td][td]11[/td][td]146[/td][td]22[/td][td]54.30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BA Stokes (ENG)[/td][td]45[/td][td]9[/td][td]1681[/td][td]102*[/td][td]46.69[/td][td]1706[/td][td]98.53[/td][td]3[/td][td]12[/td][td]137[/td][td]52[/td][td]54.12[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LD Chandimal (SL)[/td][td]47[/td][td]7[/td][td]1481[/td][td]102[/td][td]37.02[/td][td]2038[/td][td]72.66[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][td]89[/td][td]13[/td][td]54.08[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SC Williams (ZIM)[/td][td]42[/td][td]4[/td][td]1233[/td][td]129*[/td][td]32.44[/td][td]1529[/td][td]80.64[/td][td]2[/td][td]8[/td][td]101[/td][td]11[/td][td]53.85[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JM Bairstow (ENG)[/td][td]44[/td][td]7[/td][td]1898[/td][td]141*[/td][td]51.29[/td][td]1774[/td][td]106.98[/td][td]6[/td][td]7[/td][td]211[/td][td]39[/td][td]53.81[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]N Dickwella (SL)[/td][td]45[/td][td]1[/td][td]1551[/td][td]116[/td][td]35.25[/td][td]1645[/td][td]94.28[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][td]180[/td][td]12[/td][td]52.24[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GJ Bailey (AUS)[/td][td]31[/td][td]4[/td][td]1027[/td][td]112[/td][td]38.03[/td][td]1312[/td][td]78.27[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td][td]78[/td][td]13[/td][td]52.17[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JJ Roy (ENG)[/td][td]69[/td][td]2[/td][td]2536[/td][td]180[/td][td]37.85[/td][td]2433[/td][td]104.23[/td][td]6[/td][td]12[/td][td]299[/td][td]42[/td][td]52.01[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA)[/td][td]56[/td][td]14[/td][td]1867[/td][td]134[/td][td]44.45[/td][td]2307[/td][td]80.92[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]132[/td][td]38[/td][td]51.99[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson (NZ)[/td][td]57[/td][td]2[/td][td]2630[/td][td]118[/td][td]47.81[/td][td]3122[/td][td]84.24[/td][td]5[/td][td]19[/td][td]255[/td][td]25[/td][td]51.37[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AD Mathews (SL)[/td][td]43[/td][td]10[/td][td]1597[/td][td]111*[/td][td]48.39[/td][td]2002[/td][td]79.77[/td][td]1[/td][td]11[/td][td]133[/td][td]21[/td][td]50.81[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EJG Morgan (ENG)[/td][td]67[/td][td]8[/td][td]2619[/td][td]113[/td][td]44.38[/td][td]2715[/td][td]96.46[/td][td]4[/td][td]19[/td][td]230[/td][td]81[/td][td]50.46[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TM Head (AUS)[/td][td]39[/td][td]2[/td][td]1273[/td][td]128[/td][td]34.40[/td][td]1414[/td][td]90.02[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]135[/td][td]16[/td][td]50.44[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HM Amla (SA)[/td][td]55[/td][td]3[/td][td]2112[/td][td]154[/td][td]40.61[/td][td]2408[/td][td]87.70[/td][td]7[/td][td]8[/td][td]229[/td][td]18[/td][td]50.35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Q de Kock (SA)[/td][td]54[/td][td]3[/td][td]2502[/td][td]178[/td][td]49.05[/td][td]2523[/td][td]99.16[/td][td]7[/td][td]12[/td][td]288[/td][td]41[/td][td]50.32[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sikandar Raza (ZIM)[/td][td]56[/td][td]11[/td][td]1638[/td][td]100*[/td][td]36.40[/td][td]2034[/td][td]80.53[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]121[/td][td]36[/td][td]49.97[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MDKJ Perera (SL)[/td][td]40[/td][td]2[/td][td]1376[/td][td]135[/td][td]36.21[/td][td]1434[/td][td]95.95[/td][td]3[/td][td]7[/td][td]153[/td][td]23[/td][td]49.76[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mahmudullah (BDESH)[/td][td]42[/td][td]9[/td][td]1123[/td][td]102*[/td][td]34.03[/td][td]1370[/td][td]81.97[/td][td]1[/td][td]8[/td][td]92[/td][td]23[/td][td]49.16[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CS MacLeod (SCOT)[/td][td]24[/td][td]3[/td][td]1169[/td][td]157*[/td][td]55.66[/td][td]1317[/td][td]88.76[/td][td]5[/td][td]5[/td][td]127[/td][td]14[/td][td]49.06[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Gunathilaka (SL)[/td][td]35[/td][td]1[/td][td]1102[/td][td]116[/td][td]32.41[/td][td]1301[/td][td]84.70[/td][td]1[/td][td]8[/td][td]110[/td][td]15[/td][td]48.64[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Fakhar Zaman (PAK)[/td][td]27[/td][td]4[/td][td]1300[/td][td]210*[/td][td]56.52[/td][td]1328[/td][td]97.89[/td][td]3[/td][td]8[/td][td]154[/td][td]21[/td][td]48.40[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rahmat Shah (AFG)[/td][td]43[/td][td]2[/td][td]1614[/td][td]114[/td][td]39.36[/td][td]2254[/td][td]71.60[/td][td]3[/td][td]12[/td][td]122[/td][td]19[/td][td]47.89[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AM Rahane (INDIA)[/td][td]34[/td][td]1[/td][td]1378[/td][td]103[/td][td]41.75[/td][td]1718[/td][td]80.20[/td][td]1[/td][td]15[/td][td]136[/td][td]14[/td][td]47.83[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SD Hope (WI)[/td][td]41[/td][td]6[/td][td]1662[/td][td]146*[/td][td]47.48[/td][td]2320[/td][td]71.63[/td][td]4[/td][td]7[/td][td]115[/td][td]28[/td][td]47.50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma (INDIA)[/td][td]61[/td][td]9[/td][td]3419[/td][td]208*[/td][td]65.75[/td][td]3474[/td][td]98.41[/td][td]15[/td][td]12[/td][td]312[/td][td]122[/td][td]47.34[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AD Hales (ENG)[/td][td]56[/td][td]3[/td][td]2124[/td][td]171[/td][td]40.07[/td][td]2173[/td][td]97.74[/td][td]6[/td][td]13[/td][td]244[/td][td]45[/td][td]46.60[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan (INDIA)[/td][td]57[/td][td]3[/td][td]2483[/td][td]132*[/td][td]45.98[/td][td]2521[/td][td]98.49[/td][td]7[/td][td]13[/td][td]327[/td][td]30[/td][td]45.98[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Azhar Ali (PAK)[/td][td]34[/td][td]0[/td][td]1003[/td][td]101[/td][td]29.50[/td][td]1356[/td][td]73.96[/td][td]1[/td][td]6[/td][td]90[/td][td]11[/td][td]45.98[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Finch (AUS)[/td][td]48[/td][td]1[/td][td]1717[/td][td]124[/td][td]36.53[/td][td]1889[/td][td]90.89[/td][td]5[/td][td]11[/td][td]176[/td][td]43[/td][td]45.21[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BKG Mendis (SL)[/td][td]55[/td][td]2[/td][td]1424[/td][td]102[/td][td]26.86[/td][td]1656[/td][td]85.99[/td][td]1[/td][td]12[/td][td]156[/td][td]22[/td][td]45.20[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez (PAK)[/td][td]43[/td][td]6[/td][td]1573[/td][td]103[/td][td]42.51[/td][td]1879[/td][td]83.71[/td][td]2[/td][td]11[/td][td]144[/td][td]39[/td][td]44.99[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tamim Iqbal (BDESH)[/td][td]41[/td][td]6[/td][td]2013[/td][td]130*[/td][td]57.51[/td][td]2604[/td][td]77.30[/td][td]5[/td][td]15[/td][td]200[/td][td]24[/td][td]44.92[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imrul Kayes (BDESH)[/td][td]22[/td][td]1[/td][td]1035[/td][td]144[/td][td]49.28[/td][td]1248[/td][td]82.93[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][td]99[/td][td]23[/td][td]44.49[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CR Ervine (ZIM)[/td][td]52[/td][td]8[/td][td]1315[/td][td]130*[/td][td]29.88[/td][td]1859[/td][td]70.73[/td][td]2[/td][td]6[/td][td]114[/td][td]15[/td][td]44.45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WU Tharanga (SL)[/td][td]51[/td][td]8[/td][td]1593[/td][td]119[/td][td]37.04[/td][td]1872[/td][td]85.09[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][td]178[/td][td]24[/td][td]44.13[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WTS Porterfield (IRE)[/td][td]41[/td][td]0[/td][td]1303[/td][td]139[/td][td]31.78[/td][td]1728[/td][td]75.40[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]142[/td][td]10[/td][td]42.83[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Guptill (NZ)[/td][td]54[/td][td]6[/td][td]2390[/td][td]180*[/td][td]49.79[/td][td]2564[/td][td]93.21[/td][td]7[/td][td]12[/td][td]246[/td][td]76[/td][td]42.37[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PR Stirling (IRE)[/td][td]41[/td][td]1[/td][td]1459[/td][td]126[/td][td]36.47[/td][td]1742[/td][td]83.75[/td][td]2[/td][td]9[/td][td]162[/td][td]27[/td][td]41.79[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]E Lewis (WI)[/td][td]32[/td][td]1[/td][td]1010[/td][td]176*[/td][td]32.58[/td][td]1227[/td][td]82.31[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]105[/td][td]24[/td][td]40.62[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Shahzad (AFG)[/td][td]47[/td][td]2[/td][td]1624[/td][td]131*[/td][td]36.08[/td][td]1851[/td][td]87.73[/td][td]2[/td][td]10[/td][td]190[/td][td]40[/td][td]38.49[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]H Masakadza (ZIM)[/td][td]51[/td][td]0[/td][td]1430[/td][td]111[/td][td]28.03[/td][td]2003[/td][td]71.39[/td][td]2[/td][td]7[/td][td]162[/td][td]24[/td][td]35.11[/td][/tr][/table]
Brilliance
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2015
- Runs
- 1,090
He slows down too much when he is approaching milestones. Makes him look ordinary. He needs to sort it out.
Babar is the future of Pakistan cricket, and will be the first to score 10k runs in test and ODI cricket for Pakistan. He's young but the time has come for him to take charge of Pakistan batting, which means going beyond just scoring runs. He needs to be more authoritative while batting, which means not more agressive but somehow who has to plan 50 overs for the team. He should know what's the target to be set, how to build partnerships and when to defend and when to attack. In this particular series, thanks to first test match, his mode of scoring is batting agressively, which is great. But what seems to be missing is the end plan for the team.
It's not me who is saying that Conditions got flatter, numbers/stats tell us that. New or Old Ball doesn't do anything off the surface now adays or even in the air. That's y top 3 of every nation averaging 40 or 45+ in ODIs . That should be enough to make you understand batting is very easy nowadays 'holding' one end isn't some big achievement as you are trying to portray.
Compare these numbers with those who used to open around 2012-13 for their teams you will notice the drastic increase in avgs of all openers in the world in recent times.
Conditions have got flatter everyone can see that. I don't know why it's so important to cover up Babar's flaws that now you have to question something which is a fact.
I was talking about the dots/overall balls played. He will be somewhere at the top in that list . So find that specific stat before calling me wrong.
Even in this list look at his strike rate which is 'lowest' among all the 'top batsmen' in the world. Doesn't it show that he's clearly behind modern day batters when it comes to strike rotation ?
People (like ramiz raja) tend to praise his balance, good technique etc all the time what's the point of having those attributes when he can't takes single or doubles with ease? Ramiz and other babar fans can fool majority of Pakistani public by overhyping him and praising his few attributes but can't fool all especially those who have seen enough cricket down the years to know that when batsmen should be rated highly and when they shouldn't be.
Is Babar a talent? Yes
Does he have all ingredients to be a match winner ? No.
Is he a best ODI/Test batsman in the country? a clear NO
Is he improving with each passing month/year? No. He's stuck
1.He had strike rotation /dot ball issue when he debuted in 2015. He still has that issue in ODIs .
2.He lacked big hitting ability. Still lacks it
3.Used to struggle against spin. Struggles are still there .Shadah n Kuldeep made a mockery of him in PSL n Asia cup respectively .
Four years have passed. Where are the improvements?
Is that a sign of great batsman ? Absolutely not. He clearly lacks hunger to improve and looks satisfied. And I am not blaming him 100 percent for it. People /Coaches(Mickey, Ramiz etc) around him and fans are equally responsible for him not improving and enjoying mediocrity
Abdullah719
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You are confusing the problems. His strike-rate is relatively lower in comparison to the best players because he struggles to hit boundaries. He averages 13+ balls per boundary in ODIs which is quite poor for a top order batsman. Imam has a similar issue, he averages 15+ balls per boundary. Amongst top-order batsmen, both Babar and Imam have very good numbers with regards to strike-rotation but poor numbers with regards to hitting boundaries. Babar's strike-rotation is completely fine.
He's our best batsman in words only . I am sorry. In such modern day flat conditions even Fawad Alam, Saud Shakeel Usman Salahuddin would have avgs around 55 in oneday cricket with strike rate of around 80.Why not call them best batsmen too. Fakhar and Imam are also averaging over 50 in ODIs why they aren't called as best ODI batsmen in our history? Call this era a golden era of Pakistan batting as all of them have fantastic oneday avgs.
Problem is the strike rate and dot balls. Everyone can have solid ODI avg in current times. Let's understand that instead of overhyping some of our favourite players.
I still think Pakistan require a more busy player at 3 who can keep us ticking with singles and doubles. I think Saud Shakeel has an ability, he doesn't play too many dots like Babar and can also hit 4s. He can be a perfect one down batter for us especially if we have Sharjeel and Fakhar as openers in near future. But we are wasting his talent and will keep on wasting him as Babar is undroppable .
So you are trying to deny that he does not play dots? Now I am even more interested to see that list/stats because I have been seeing his ODI batting closely eversince his debut and nobody can tell me he's very good when it comes to strike rotation or he doesn't play too many dots. Most of his runs come in boundaries, he's just not natural when it comes to taking singles and doubles. But you expect some improvement in 4 years on that front from a batsman who's called as a best batsman in Pakistan's recent history but there's no improvement that's y a disappointment.
Post highest dot ball percentage in ODIs by batsmen since 2015. I am really interested
If fakhar and imam have these records after 3.5 years, we can have those discussions.
To say people who have not debuted will be able to AVG 50-55 is incredible.
We can only go by what we have had previously and comapre it to the outputs of misbah hafeez Malik who never went hell for leather, this is so much more consistent
Malik has an avg of 46 in the last 4 years, Hafeez is averaging 45+ under Sarfraz captaincy both of them have strike rate of Over 90. Where do they stand in your eyes?
jnaveen1980
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Rayudu average 50 or close to 50. Infact Kedhar Jadhav average 45 at a strike rate of 107 and we talk about him hurting India's chances in the world cup. Impact of a batsman in one dayers cannot be judged by averages.
I wanna see the breakdown of that from malik. Hafeez I'm fine with. .our ussues historical ly have been at the top of the order and we know how they fared there.
Also a lot more experience
Some Pak fans can't understand that unfortunately.
You can check Malik's record in last 4 years by yourself.
I will repeat having good avg in ODIs nowadays is one thing, playing impactful innings every now and then is another.
Can't laud players' avgs in ODIs anymore. It's not 90s or early 00s when scoring in ODIs was tough so you had to judge players by their avg. Saeed Anwar had an avg of 39 and strike rate of 80 when the new ball used to seam and swing, old ball used to reverse swing . So those numbers are immense if you take those conditions and those bowling attacks into account.
Strike rates, impact matter nowadays. You have to have balanced numbers.for example Avg of around 55 and strike rate of 80 shouldn't be considered as astonishing. I would prefer Jos Buttler with avg in 30s rather than player having those stats
I don't disagree with everything you say. But I still think u can have one guy with 50 /85 who holds it all together.
Malik has had a lean last 18 months . His numbers were great for 18 months when he came back but he has tailed off a lot
Still his numbers are good and he plays impact ful innings unlike Babar.
You can have one player with 50/89-90 not 50/85 or less than that. Babar doesn't need to become Chris gaye and hit sixes to up his strike rate he should have learned the art of strike rotation from Joe root or even his own team mates In Malik, Sarfraz and Fakhar. All are so good in taking singles and doubles but there's no sign of improvement in his batting that's what frustrates me.
It's been four years, can't continue to cover up his heap of dot balls which he plays in every innings. Expecting Fakhar to even up low strike rate of Imam n Babar in every match is very unfair to him.
Let's keep an eye on this as we progress this series.
I think he is a breath of fresh air for a team that invariably was 40-3 and unable on chase 250 in misbah days when misbah would have to come in and do the repair job ( so he got this SR issue thrown at him as well)
In recent past when he has failed we have totally bombed these middling chases, ( NZ 1st odi and Bangladesh defeat in Asia cup) so just as well he doesn't have too many failures ( which ur 35- 40avg SR 95 guy do)
In terms of yesterday's innings I think it was fine given the circumstances. Wasn't at his best but stuck it out
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As I said conditions have got flatter can't throw 40-3 argument anymore. That hardly happens nowadays especially after Fakhar's arrival. We get good start in flat conditions now like every other teams do. We (or me here ) only expect Babar to keep scorecard ticking instead of playing dots but he's been failing to do that for years now and never seems to improve.
Unnecessary dot balls in flat conditions are totally unacceptable, you might want to defend that but I cannot. I will point that out whenever I will see him occupying crease selfishly. He should not be allowed to suck all the momentum Fakhar provides again and again
Even in Misbah's time that argument wasn't true, Hafeez and Shehzad used to open in ODIs mostly under his captaincy (2011-15) and their batting avgs during that time were around 37-38 which proves that argument wrong. If that was true they should have had avgs in 20s. 40-3, 20-3 used to happen yes but once after every 6-7 matches so playing dot balls in others Matches wasn't justified. it was just Misbahs inability to rotate the strike and his fans used to give that argument to cover up flaws in his approach /batting ability. Now the same thing is happening in Babar's Case his blind fans will say anything just to defend his useless selfish knocks instead of admitting that he's not good enough when it comes to strike rotation /strike rate and needs to be replaced by a better player like Saud Shakeel or needs to improve massively and quickly. Put some pressure on him to improve his batting instead of saying he's allright, hes still young etc. You don't remain young in int cricket after playing for four years.
saeed5646
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Babar have maintain 50s average in odis after scoring more than 2000 runs with 8 hundred while rayudu batting average is already drop from 52 to 49 after scoring 1500 runs with grand total of 3 hundred in which average will drop further after playing more .while jadhav averaging 45 with 2 century just 900 odi runs .his strike and avearge is even better than dhawan and rohit why not replace with them in opening
Nobody is denying he cant or shouldn't improve.
Our top order was amongst the worst in misbah days over a long period of time, I don't think anybody can deny that.
I will try to pull some stats for you.
And stop making it sound like the pitches have just got flatter since 2015, that isn't true. 434 played 438 in 2006. They have been flat for a while now, still we had our top order issues
HE batted with a strike rate of 71.01 to be exact. Which means his own strike rate was 4.2.... as compared to the required strike rate of 5.8 when he got out. Watch the match again, if you understand cricket you would know there is something called pacing an innings. Babar has usually always failed when chasing totals for the team. This was no exception.
O GOD. Sharing one off match's figures from by gone era to convince yourself that conditions never got flatter? Unbelievable comeback.
As I said earlier, in order to defend babar his fans can go to any length. So easily ignored the facts which indicate conditions have got flatter :
- Inflated batting averages in recent times
- Drastic Increase in number of times teams
have crossed 300
- Great Increase in no of individual 100s in
last 5 years
Etc etc.
Conditions have indeed got flatter, no matter how hard you try to deny that it won't change this fact. Everyother stat tells us that but for you admitting babar's incompetency is harder than denying the fact
Rightly put. Some fans always like to manipulate figures and numbers in order to make their batsman look great.
Without Fakhar's fiery start this team will always find it hard to chase anything over 230 even on flat tracks. Even yesterday Fakhar provided the momentum with his quick 25,he did that in CT matches too against SA, SL and Eng. He is the key and is our best batsman. Fans, bigging up Imam and Babar , will realise that once Fakhar sits out
No that was just to point out i don't think wickets got flatter in 2015 when Babar started playing. We had duds with poor strike rates and averages in misbah days when other teams were chasing 250 more than us and setting 300 more than us.
Im just struggling to understand how u can think that he adds no value to the team. Did u only start watching Pak cricket in 2015?
That is when we used to have discussions about " will Pakistan be able to bat a whole 50 overs without misbah?" That's how bad we got!
So don't forget where we are coming from.
At no point in any of this am I denying Babar can't improve. ( hence I mentioned the use of the sweep Vs spin above)
Chokli
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the team can only win when all the batsmen contribute.
[MENTION=148442]Farhan93[/MENTION]
Here is an extract of a dawn article written in 2014, as u obviously can't recall how things were.
"Pakistan’s asymmetric batting order causes a lopsided effect in building an innings. Instead of formulating a solid base with a top-heavy batting line like the rest of the world, Pakistan is far too often made to reconstruct after early wreckage of a rickety top order."
Here is the link to the full article
https://www.dawn.com/news/1090321
These were the days when we used to ask why does misbah not come out to bat at 3, before the collapse
Here is an extract of a dawn article written in 2014, as u obviously can't recall how things were.
"Pakistan’s asymmetric batting order causes a lopsided effect in building an innings. Instead of formulating a solid base with a top-heavy batting line like the rest of the world, Pakistan is far too often made to reconstruct after early wreckage of a rickety top order."
Here is the link to the full article
https://www.dawn.com/news/1090321
These were the days when we used to ask why does misbah not come out to bat at 3, before the collapse
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Abdullah719
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There aren't any easily accessible complete dot ball stats at the moment. The above table is the closest thing there is to that. All the stats show that Babar has pretty good strike-rotation but a low boundary percentage which is what drags his SR down. I do have something more in depth lined up but slightly preoccupied with exams coming up etc... will get around to it some other time.
Mamoon
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Have to agree with [MENTION=148442]Farhan93[/MENTION].
Babar is a prolific batsman but he needs to take charge of the game and dictate the tempo. Then and only then can he be considered as a top ODI batsman.
Whether Pakistan is aiming to post 300+ or chase 300+, Babar plays second fiddle.
Unfortunately, the problem for Pakistan (and Babar) is that Fakhar, the player who is supposed to set the pace, is a hack who fails 9/10 times when the opposition bowls to him with a plan. He is too reliant on minnow bashing and good bowlers having off-days.
There is no need of going into the nitty gritty of Babar’s statistics. His SR was 90 at one point, but now he is struggling to keep it over 80.
Over the last 15 months or so, he has developed a worrying trend - his SR for the first 50-60 runs is between 65-70, which is simply not good enough.
The great ODI batsmen very rarely operate in that range irrespective of the situation, opposition or the conditions. However, for Babar, it is becoming the norm.
His 49 (79) was an okay innings in the context of the last game, but this type of innings is becoming the standard Babar performance, and such poorly paced innings are only useful if you convert them into big scores, which he doesn’t do often against the good teams.
There is no doubt that he has regressed as an ODI batsman. Against the top sides, he has played very few innings of note and even in those innings, he has been overshadowed by someone else.
Consistency wise, he is very good. He is a prolific player because he knows the art of scoring runs, but impact wise, he is nothing special.
At this point, he is just an upgraded version of Hafeez and Shehzad. He does what they do (or did), but with better consistency.
Just because he is Pakistan’s best batsman does not mean that he is beyond criticism; it does not take much to be Pakistan’s best batsman, and Babar needs to improve a lot to be considered an elite ODI batsman.
Babar is a prolific batsman but he needs to take charge of the game and dictate the tempo. Then and only then can he be considered as a top ODI batsman.
Whether Pakistan is aiming to post 300+ or chase 300+, Babar plays second fiddle.
Unfortunately, the problem for Pakistan (and Babar) is that Fakhar, the player who is supposed to set the pace, is a hack who fails 9/10 times when the opposition bowls to him with a plan. He is too reliant on minnow bashing and good bowlers having off-days.
There is no need of going into the nitty gritty of Babar’s statistics. His SR was 90 at one point, but now he is struggling to keep it over 80.
Over the last 15 months or so, he has developed a worrying trend - his SR for the first 50-60 runs is between 65-70, which is simply not good enough.
The great ODI batsmen very rarely operate in that range irrespective of the situation, opposition or the conditions. However, for Babar, it is becoming the norm.
His 49 (79) was an okay innings in the context of the last game, but this type of innings is becoming the standard Babar performance, and such poorly paced innings are only useful if you convert them into big scores, which he doesn’t do often against the good teams.
There is no doubt that he has regressed as an ODI batsman. Against the top sides, he has played very few innings of note and even in those innings, he has been overshadowed by someone else.
Consistency wise, he is very good. He is a prolific player because he knows the art of scoring runs, but impact wise, he is nothing special.
At this point, he is just an upgraded version of Hafeez and Shehzad. He does what they do (or did), but with better consistency.
Just because he is Pakistan’s best batsman does not mean that he is beyond criticism; it does not take much to be Pakistan’s best batsman, and Babar needs to improve a lot to be considered an elite ODI batsman.
Mobashir
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Over the last decade is Australia a top ODI side?
Are scoring runs against Boland, Tye, Kane Richardson, Faulkner, Sidle and many more of those great ODI runs because it's Australia?
And failing every time they play their premier bowler : Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins.
Mamoon
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Kohli is a better ODI batsman than anyone in our history, and Babar will never be half the player he is. I refuse to take the bait and feed your Indophobia, so please don’t waste your energy.
Mobashir
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Where do you see me talking about Virat Kohli here?
I am just asking a simple question about the Australian ODI team and their fast bowlers.
If the bowling attack is Boland, Tye and Kane Richardson or Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins are the runs of the same value because it's against Australia?
As you are pointing out scoring against top oppositions.
I think babar just needs to take some risks in his first 50 runs and show some more intent early on in his innings. Pakistan batting is heading in right position . Imam and Babar are there to give platform for a late innings onslaught
Pak fans cant get themselves out of afridi times.
Pak fans cant get themselves out of afridi times.
Mamoon
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Because I know where you are going with this. Kohli’s record against Australia is not great against their full strength attack, but Babar scored a hundred against them (although a terrible innings that killed any chance we had of winning the game).
Unfortunately for Babar, his record against most quality attacks is quite ordinary so it is not simply an exception.
Babar needs to up his game against the best teams in the world to be counted among the best ODI batsmen in the world.
Micro-analysing the stats of superior batsmen and finding holes in their records will not make Babar’s record against the top teams any better.
You aren't reading my posts are you? I clearly mentioned the stats references which if you look into do suggest that conditions got flatter. I don't know why are you even arguing about that.
Around 2012-13 or before that openers around the world used to have averages in 30s with strike rates in 70s or 80s.nowadays top 3 of every other nation has batsmen avg and SR of 45+/90+.
Do you think it's just conincidence?
Or you just arguing with me for the sake of argument.? Can't you see individual batsmen score 130+ runs for fun nowadays I don't remember that happening so frequently between 1998-2012.
300-320 used to be a match winning total even in 2010 now it's a par score everywhere in the world. Anyone can see that conditions have got flatter in recent years except you.
I have already responded to that point about Misbah. Hafeez and Shehzad would have had avgs in 20s If that 20-3 argument was true. But their avgs were in late 30s which proves that they used to give us good starts more often than not. Misbah always used to play dot balls irrespective of the match situation.
Now the conditions have got even more flat, so Pakistani players should adjust with the conditions and the fans need to accept their shortcomings instead of defending them against valid criticism.
Babar isn't just good enough with the amount of dots he plays. Everyone has good average nowadays it doesn't make everyone world class
He's not even the best Pakistan batsman right now. Impact wise it's Fakhar without him, this batting line up can't achieve much success. Technique wise it's Haris who looks more elegant than any Pakistan batsman In present times he is more complete batsman than babar, he can accelerate, he rotates the strike better and now has developed six hitting ability as well
Try finding more relevant stats. Even above stats don't show what you are trying to say.
It shows Babar has a worst strike rate among all the top batsmen In the world which is an evidence of the fact that he plays just too many dots and has poor strike rotation ability
Rohit is deemed bad at strike rotation. At least the start of his inning. Apparently Babar is worse than him since 2018.
Abdullah719
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No. He has a poor strike-rate in comparison to the best ODI batsmen because he hits boundaries at a poor rate.
If his strike-rotation was also poor then his SR would be in the mid-70s like Shehzad or Misbah.
People even used to say we would get all out on 150 without Misbah and that has never happened after his retirement or even in his tenure whenever he failed we were able to post big scores. Remember NZ series in 2014?Asia cup matches against BD n Ind? SA series in 2013? We always succeeded or scored big whenever misbah failed with the bat. Because he was a dot ball master and made us lose momentum. Stop all these arguments were rubbish back then and now they sound even more stupid when conditions are even flatter.
Just to defend Babar's poor strike rotation ability you have to come up with nonsense. So typical of Pak fans who blindly support individual players rather than thinking about teams' interest
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Mamoon
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Fakhar’s awful technique makes it very difficult for him to score consistently against good bowling.
Haris looks great at the crease, but he always throws it away after a start. There is a reason why he has 0 hundreds so far. Temperament wise, he has nothing on Babar.
In the long run, Babar is the only batsman in this team who has the ability to maintain a 50+ average, but he needs to improve his SR to be counted among the best batsmen in the world.
Abdullah719
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I don't see Babar in that graph?
However, Babar has struggled in ODIs over the past year or so. His non-boundary runs have dropped from ~57/100 balls to ~52/100 balls. It's still the rate of boundaries that is hampering him the most - he hit five fours in 69 balls in the first ODI which is almost one per every 14 balls.
Thanks for posting that. Now some fans might understand what I have been trying to say for so long. Stats don't lie. Blind fans can only come up with good ODI avgs stats but often ignore more important ones. I hope these fans aren't blind and will accept Babar has huge issues with strike rotation
The stats you posted don't have boundaries' runs, right? And after removing boundaries his strike rate is worst among all. What does it tell you? That he plays just too many dots which aren't acceptable in modern day ODIs. Please accept this fact and don't try to defend him because you can't. He needs to improve quickly or should be replaced by Saud Shakeel or someone who can score runs without playing too many dots
Abdullah719
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Look at the column on the extreme-right. 56.94 is his non-boundary runs per 100 balls, which is the 10th best amongst all ODI batsmen since he made his debut.
JibranAnsari
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In fact this stat show that babar isnt that bad when it comes to strike rotation.
Haris can also have 50+ avg with a better strike rate in my opinion if he's given Babar's role at 3. Because no one is poorer than Babar in Pakistan system when it comes to strike rotation maybe Shehzad can give him a competition. That's why whoever would bat at 3 w have a better strike rate than Babar and proper solid batsmen like Haris and Saud would have equally good avg too.
As for Fakhar, with all the problems in his technique he can score runs and can be a long term success in my opinion as he is mentally strong. All he needs is a selfless opening partner like Azhar along side him who could take the charge of the situation if Fakhar is struggling during or at the start of the innings.
He doesn't seem comfortable with a selfish opening partner like imam who just leaves it all on Fakhar to give innings a momentum. That shouldn't be allowed to happen in modern day cricket both openers should be on the attack from the start. Look at the pairs Hales/Bairstow/Roy, Warner/Finch, Sharma/Dhawan, Guptil/Munro, Even Dekock/Amla.
None of the pairs has a batsman who starts on a defensive.
Fakhar either needs Azhar, who showed In CT he can take the responsibility on him if Fakhar is struggling, or He needs Sharjeel or Shahzaib Hasan like partner who are also aggressive and would attack no matter what.
Imam is not a good partner for Fakhar and for Pakistan
That's because the graph only lists batsmen who are best at strike rotation.
Now Babar cannot be bad simply because he couldn't make the cut of world's best at rotating strike. However, Rohit plays a lot of dots, more than half the deliveries he faces are dots. Presumably Babar has a worse dot ball percentage than Rohit.
Abdullah719
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I just quickly went through the ball by ball stats for each innings since the start of 2018. Babar has played 354 dot balls (696 balls faced) which equates to around 50.8% in dots.
MeanAndGreen
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Worst strike rotator in Pakistan? Are you serious mate?
MeanAndGreen
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Lmao.
So first people had an issue with Babar's boundary hitting ability and now they have a problem with his strike rotation.
So, the guy who can't rotate strike or hit boundaries somehow magically averages 52 @ 85 and is ranked 5 and Saud Shakeel - who is yet to even make his international debut - is a better player.
Right...
So first people had an issue with Babar's boundary hitting ability and now they have a problem with his strike rotation.
So, the guy who can't rotate strike or hit boundaries somehow magically averages 52 @ 85 and is ranked 5 and Saud Shakeel - who is yet to even make his international debut - is a better player.
Right...
Hitman
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Babar plays ODI cricket like the way it was played by a lot of players in the 90's. He does score runs at a pretty decent rate by today's standards but he simply can't cause much damage to the opposition. Much like Amla.
Regardless, he can be a big asset for Pakistan since they really lack someone who can play steadily in the middle overs.
Regardless, he can be a big asset for Pakistan since they really lack someone who can play steadily in the middle overs.
If he scores at his current rate Pakistan will win more than they will lose. All he needs to do is score a bit more and not get out once he reaches 50. I would like him to score more runs than he is currently doing his SR is not an issue for Pakistan at all.
Hitman
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I've seen this trend in him for sometime now. He simply throws it away after getting his eye in. Need to score big after finding his feet. The middle order depends a lot on him.
Yes thats where he is lacking, the rest is all fine. He will become better with more experience but it will be better for Pakistan if he can better that asap.
Because he doesn't play unnecessary dot balls who ever watches cricket can understand players strong or weak points quickly. Maybe it's difficult for you but not for all
Yes surely one of the worst in recent times along with Shehzad, Misbah and Hafeez.
Babar scoring 100 on 115 deliveries will always be as useful for Pakistan's opponents as Amla's 100 in the last ODI was for us. So I really hope we don't see him making any selfish 100s anymore would rather want him to get out cheaply. As atleast there wouldn't be dots ball hampering our total score
Abdullah719
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NBR/100 = non-boundary runs per 100 balls
B/B = balls per boundary
B/100 = boundaries per 100 balls
NBR+B = non-boundary runs + boundaries per 100 balls
[table=class:grid][tr][td]Player[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][td]4s[/td][td]6s[/td][td]NBR/100[/td][td]B/B[/td][td]B/100[/td][td]NBR+B[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam[/td][td]53[/td][td]2316[/td][td]51.46[/td][td]2743[/td][td]84.43[/td][td]8[/td][td]9[/td][td]185[/td][td]22[/td][td]56.94[/td][td]13.25[/td][td]7.55[/td][td]64.49[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Misbah-ul-Haq[/td][td]149[/td][td]5122[/td][td]43.40[/td][td]6945[/td][td]73.75[/td][td]0[/td][td]42[/td][td]342[/td][td]83[/td][td]49.94[/td][td]16.34[/td][td]6.12[/td][td]56.06[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ahmed Shehzad[/td][td]81[/td][td]2605[/td][td]32.56[/td][td]3614[/td][td]72.08[/td][td]6[/td][td]14[/td][td]269[/td][td]18[/td][td]42.71[/td][td]12.59[/td][td]7.94[/td][td]50.65[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez[/td][td]203[/td][td]6224[/td][td]33.10[/td][td]8206[/td][td]75.84[/td][td]11[/td][td]35[/td][td]632[/td][td]101[/td][td]41.35[/td][td]11.20[/td][td]8.93[/td][td]50.28[/td][/tr][/table]
Misbah's non-boundary runs are naturally a little higher than Shehzad and Hafeez as he is a middle-order player.
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Hitman
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I'll be honest, I was disappointed with him in the Test series. In 3 of the 6 innings he played, he was looking wonderful. And he should have really gone on to score big in those 3 innings. He needs to realize that he won't find his feet in each and every innings he plays. And he really needs to turn it on the day he is hitting the ball well.
That's the one thing he really needs to concentrate on if he wants to reach new heights. He is a young lad and has plenty of time. But having plenty of time does not justify in wasting time, specially when he does have the ability.
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Babar 100 will always be more use full for Pakistan than 37 form any other batsmen.
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Agree with your post! He is just a little short of what I would could call a fab 4 level right now.
Because of this outdated mindset Pakistan are currently lying at 6th In ODIs. People like you don't even understand what are the requirements of modern day ODIs. Keep supporting players with poor strike rates your team will keep on struggling. Without Fakhar and Malik/Hafeez In the side you can't even beat BD and Afg.
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