[VIDEOS] Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

Technically the definition of "secular" Indians use is one where all the religions have rights. Pakistan is secular too then except for one case which is the head of state cannot be a non Muslim. apart from that non Muslims pay the same tax, they get the same state benefits, they get their places of worship, etc.

So on principle and based on the constitution of the country Pakistan is as secular as India. Now its a different story that it does not happen practically, due to a lack of law and order and enforcement that affects Muslims and non Muslims like.

Now if you want to use the definition of secular as being a form of governance divorced from religion, well that we can hardly find anywhere. In that sense of the word, even India is not secular thanks to their whole cow slaughter ban amongst other things.
I read your post only because Cpt quoted it, and saw the lie straight away.

Aain-e-Pakistan discriminates among its citizens not only at one place, but several that I know of apart from the one for head of state.
1. Blasphemy law.
2. laws on Ahmadiya.
3. Islam as state religion.

yes, apart from that Pakistan is secular. :ROFLMAO:
 
I read your post only because Cpt quoted it, and saw the lie straight away.

Aain-e-Pakistan discriminates among its citizens not only at one place, but several that I know of apart from the one for head of state.
1. Blasphemy law.
2. laws on Ahmadiya.
3. Islam as state religion.

yes, apart from that Pakistan is secular. :ROFLMAO:
1. And how is that different from India where there is ban on certain freedoms based on Hindu beliefs? How is that different from Blasphemy law? (you are getting punished for going against a certain religion)

2. What is the law on Ahmedeiya? Maybe you can educate us all since you happen to know more about it than Pakistanis.

3. Islam is a state religion in name only. But you guys are not that far behind by changing India's name to BHarat and declaring it a hindu Rashtra. I fail to see the difference.

The only saving grace you guys have is that technically a non Hindu can be the PM unlike Pakistan, where a non muslim cant.

But has a Muslim ever been a PM or realistically has a chance of becoming a PM in India? Let us be honest now.
 
India's definition of secular is we will respect all religions... just one religion more than the rest. That is not the definition used in the rest of the world where they try to portray themselves as a separation between church and state. Hope you guys keep that in mind.
 
1. And how is that different from India where there is ban on certain freedoms based on Hindu beliefs? How is that different from Blasphemy law? (you are getting punished for going against a certain religion)

2. What is the law on Ahmedeiya? Maybe you can educate us all since you happen to know more about it than Pakistanis.

3. Islam is a state religion in name only. But you guys are not that far behind by changing India's name to BHarat and declaring it a hindu Rashtra. I fail to see the difference.

The only saving grace you guys have is that technically a non Hindu can be the PM unlike Pakistan, where a non muslim cant.

But has a Muslim ever been a PM or realistically has a chance of becoming a PM in India? Let us be honest now.
1. Are there any bans on religious freedoms? Which religious freedom of muslims is banned?

2. Sure, I always love to educate you, for free. https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/asa330151991en.pdf

3. Islam is a state religion in name only? They try speaking up for removing it. Salmaan Taseer was killed just for asking for some secularism.

Muslims are given excemptions and benefits that no other religion is given. India is more quasi islamic, than secular.

I hope you are improving everytime I expose your lies.
 
India's definition of secular is we will respect all religions... just one religion more than the rest. That is not the definition used in the rest of the world where they try to portray themselves as a separation between church and state. Hope you guys keep that in mind.
Yes, and that religion is Islam. Exempt from affirmative action for dalits despite taking state funds. Special law for waqf property. Exception for polygamy, muslim personal law board, stopped hindu festivities so that muslims can take processions.

You are right, but by mistake. Just that your understanding is poor. As Always.
 
1. Are there any bans on religious freedoms? Which religious freedom of muslims is banned?

2. Sure, I always love to educate you, for free. https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/asa330151991en.pdf

3. Islam is a state religion in name only? They try speaking up for removing it. Salmaan Taseer was killed just for asking for some secularism.

Muslims are given excemptions and benefits that no other religion is given. India is more quasi islamic, than secular.

I hope you are improving everytime I expose your lies.
1. Who said about religious freedom. Its freedom in general that is banned based on Hindu beliefs.

2. What does this prove? Is this showing some flaw in pakistan's constitution that states Ahmedis are lesser citizens? All it is proving is that there is poor law and order in the country, something I have already admitted and mourned about. And I can produce multiple such links regarding the plight of Muslims in India, by the way if you like.

3. Once again, poor law and order, please cite any credible sources that provide constitutional favoritism of Muslims over others. (apart from the top leadership position). India is exactly the same except they don't have it codified in their consitution that a non HIndu cannot be the top leader. When was a Muslim PM of India in over 70 years of its history. in fact you will be hard pressed to find any non Hindu get the role. Maybe a Sikh, but I highly doubt even that.

I hope you are learning more about your own country from me, as you try to expose my "lies"
 
1. Who said about religious freedom. Its freedom in general that is banned based on Hindu beliefs.

2. What does this prove? Is this showing some flaw in pakistan's constitution that states Ahmedis are lesser citizens? All it is proving is that there is poor law and order in the country, something I have already admitted and mourned about. And I can produce multiple such links regarding the plight of Muslims in India, by the way if you like.

3. Once again, poor law and order, please cite any credible sources that provide constitutional favoritism of Muslims over others. (apart from the top leadership position). India is exactly the same except they don't have it codified in their consitution that a non HIndu cannot be the top leader. When was a Muslim PM of India in over 70 years of its history. in fact you will be hard pressed to find any non Hindu get the role. Maybe a Sikh, but I highly doubt even that.

I hope you are learning more about your own country from me, as you try to expose my "lies"
1. So you concede no religious freedom of muslims is restricted. :ROFLMAO:


Folks. Brother @Stewie accepts that no religious freedom of muslims is restricted.
 
1. So you concede no religious freedom of muslims is restricted. :ROFLMAO:


Folks. Brother @Stewie accepts that no religious freedom of muslims is restricted.
I don't live in India so I cant speak to religious freedom but from what I can tell there is general freedom of non Hindus that is restricted and that is a bigger indictment than restriction of religious freedom. I mean I would hate to live in a country where I can be held liable for killing a cow. This restriction covers not just Muslims.


I did not realize I will be educating people here on deductive reasoning and inferring logic today. I guess I'll put that down for my social welfare bit for the week. You are welcome, Cartoon.
 
I don't live in India so I cant speak to religious freedom but from what I can tell there is general freedom of non Hindus that is restricted and that is a bigger indictment than restriction of religious freedom. I mean I would hate to live in a country where I can be held liable for killing a cow. This restriction covers not just Muslims.


I did not realize I will be educating people here on deductive reasoning and inferring logic today. I guess I'll put that down for my social welfare bit for the week. You are welcome, Cartoon.
Now brother @Stewie says he doesn't live in india so he cannot say anything for sure.

The gift that keeps on giving. :ROFLMAO:
 
Now brother @Stewie says he doesn't live in india so he cannot say anything for sure.

The gift that keeps on giving. :ROFLMAO:
Of course, I am being realistic, unlike the idiots who don't live in Pakistan but make it sound like they live here and know everything, and especially sympathize with Ahmedis by posting links to other websites about their plight. I swear I saw some deluded dude post about that on here somewhere. :ROFLMAO:
 
Of course, I am being realistic, unlike the idiots who don't live in Pakistan but make it sound like they live here and know everything, and especially sympathize with Ahmedis by posting links to other websites about their plight. I swear I saw some deluded dude post about that on here somewhere. :ROFLMAO:
Aren't ahmadiyas barred by law from calling themselves muslims or calling their mosques as mosques?

I am not sympathizing with ahmadiyas btw.

Are you saying one has to live in the country to know about its laws? aain-e-Pakistan changes its texts based on the country form where it is being accessed?
 
Aren't ahmadiyas barred by law from calling themselves muslims or calling their mosques as mosques?

I am not sympathizing with ahmadiyas btw.

Are you saying one has to live in the country to know about its laws? aain-e-Pakistan changes its texts based on the country form where it is

Feel free to discuss their "plight" in one of tens of threads focusing on their particular case. Let us keep this one on track. Maybe you can provide us with some more hateful viewpoints of a Hindu, Cartoons. Don't slow down on my account now, please.

So far we have seen reasons such as Muslims praying in the open to Muslims wanting to impose Shariat on everyone. And that's ALL MUSLIMS, a blanket statement by the way by the Hindutva gang of pious philosophers.

What else you got to add to all this genius now?
 
Democracy is not just majority rule, it also has to produce equal opportunity regardless of the faith of a citizen, which Sharia does not provide.

1. And how is that different from India where there is ban on certain freedoms based on Hindu beliefs? How is that different from Blasphemy law? (you are getting punished for going against a certain religion)

2. What is the law on Ahmedeiya? Maybe you can educate us all since you happen to know more about it than Pakistanis.

3. Islam is a state religion in name only. But you guys are not that far behind by changing India's name to BHarat and declaring it a hindu Rashtra. I fail to see the difference.

The only saving grace you guys have is that technically a non Hindu can be the PM unlike Pakistan, where a non muslim cant.

But has a Muslim ever been a PM or realistically has a chance of becoming a PM in India? Let us be honest now.
In India a Hindu can become Muslim legally. Is it legal in Pakistan for a Muslim to become Hindu? More generally does Sharia allow preaching of other religions to Muslims?
 
In India a Hindu can become Muslim legally. Is it legal in Pakistan for a Muslim to become Hindu? More generally does Sharia allow preaching of other religions to Muslims?
Fair point: yes you are correct those activities are not allowed in Pakistan. Under sharia law, I am not entirely sure if preaching is allowed or not. I am inclined to say probably not.

But point taken about Pakistan being not secular enough like India in that particular regard.
 
@Stewie
Feel free to discuss their "plight" in one of tens of threads focusing on their particular case. Let us keep this one on track. Maybe you can provide us with some more hateful viewpoints of a Hindu, Cartoons. Don't slow down on my account now, please.

So far we have seen reasons such as Muslims praying in the open to Muslims wanting to impose Shariat on everyone. And that's ALL MUSLIMS, a blanket statement by the way by the Hindutva gang of pious philosophers.

What else you got to add to all this genius now?
I am not discussing their plight, I am showing how Pakistani law discriminates against them

So have you counted how many instances I provided of aain-e-Pakistan discriminating against its people based on religion?
 
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@Stewie
I am not discussing their plight, I am showing how Pakistani law discriminates against them

So have you counted how many instances I provided of aain-e-Pakistan discriminating against its people based on religion?
I don’t think you are in any position to judge what sort of discrimination the Ahmedis face. I actually have no sense of unease about it at all. It’s fairly clear what a Muslims stands for and believes and according to the government, they don’t fulfill that qualification. So they are classified as non Muslims. If you want to call it discriminatory, well who cares. We can claim the same about the Hindu caste culture which judges people on the family of birth than belief. What’s worse?
 
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I don’t think you are in any position to judge what sort of discrimination the Ahmedis face. I actually have no sense of unease about it at all. It’s fairly clear what a Muslims stands for and believes and according to the government, they don’t fulfill that qualification. So they are classified as non Muslims. If you want to call it discriminatory, well who cares. We can claim the same about the Hindu caste culture which judges people on the family of birth than belief. What’s worse?
Indian laws discriminate based on caste? Show me the proof or it is yet another lie from your never ending stable.

Pakistani law forbids ahmadis to call their mosques as mosques.
Pakistani law denies non musloms from becoming head of state.
Pakistani law has Islam as state religion.
Pakistani law has blasphemy law for Islam.
Hudood ordinance is based on Sharia.


Don't be so guilty about it. Proudly own that Islam is primary, and non muslims are second class even by the law. Why so much trouble to prove Pakistan is secular?
 
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Indian laws discriminate based on caste? Show me the proof or it is yet another lie from your never ending stable.

Pakistani law forbids ahmadis to call their mosques as mosques.
Pakistani law denies non musloms from becoming head of state.
Pakistani law has Islam as state religion.
Pakistani law has blasphemy law for Islam.
Hudood ordinance is based on Sharia.


Don't be so guilty about it. Proudly own that Islam is primary, and non muslims are second class even by the law. Why so much trouble to prove Pakistan is secular?
Haha, way to divert the topic but ok fine I’ll play along.

Who says you can have a state religion and can’t be secular? That’s the Indian definition of secular by the way. India says it caters to all faiths but why is it that only one religion and a few castes from that religion have had held the PM post of the nation? The proof is in the pudding. How many Christian’s, Muslims, lower caste or scheduled caste people have held the PM position?
Brahmin Hindus are what percentage of the total population and compare that with the number of Brahmins who have been the PM of India and it will open your eyes.

Claiming something is one thing but backing it up with facts is another. You can chest thump secularism to death but the numbers totally betray the narrative put out by india.

How many non hindus are in the current PMs cabinet out of total and how many total positions are there in the cabinet?

I own up to Pakistan’s flaws in my response to anikrc1, don’t need to run away or hide.

Can you frankly admit the same? Time to man up my friend. Nobody will hold any lower opinion of you than already, if you did.
 
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Haha, way to divert the topic but ok fine I’ll play along.

Who says you can have a state religion and can’t be secular? That’s the Indian definition of secular by the way. India says it caters to all faiths but why is it that only one religion and a few castes from that religion have had held the PM post of the nation? The proof is in the pudding. How many Christian’s, Muslims, lower caste or scheduled caste people have held the PM position?
Brahmin Hindus are what percentage of the total population and compare that with the number of Brahmins who have been the PM of India and it will open your eyes.

Claiming something is one thing but backing it up with facts is another. You can chest thump secularism to death but the numbers totally betray the narrative put out by india.

How many non hindus are in the current PMs cabinet out of total and how many total positions are there in the cabinet?

I own up to Pakistan’s flaws in my response to anikrc1, don’t need to run away or hide.

Can you frankly admit the same? Time to man up my friend. Nobody will hold any lower opinion of you than already, if you did.
I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.

I have given multiple examples (FACTS) which show Aain-e-Pakistan treats non muslims as second class citizens.

Now you have given ZERO proof where COI (Constitution of India) discriminates based on religion.

In fact you already conceded that Indian law does not restrict ANY religious freedom of muslims.:ROFLMAO:

A-e-P treats non muslim pakistanis as second class, but but but apart from that it is truly secular.
 
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I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.

I have given multiple examples (FACTS) which show Aain-e-Pakistan treats non muslims as second class citizens.

Now you have given ZERO proof where COI (Constitution of India) discriminates based on religion.

In fact you already conceded that Indian law does not restrict ANY religious freedom of muslims.:ROFLMAO:

A-e-P treats non muslim pakistanis as second class, but but but apart from that it is truly secular. This is brother @Stewie logic, folks. :ROFLMAO:
Hilarious!
You stopped at the religious freedoms part and got so excited jumping up and down at little old me’s concession, which by the way I have to say I’m flattered matters so much to you, you didn’t even go on to read the rest of it.

Do religious freedoms mean more to you than “general freedoms”? Such as having a nice juicy steak on the weekend without the fear of being run over by a crazy Hindu? Answer that first and then we can discuss the rest, brother @CricketCartoons
 
I am not a fan of secularism. Let there be no mistake about it. I am only exposing your lies and schooling you because you said except head of state rule, Pakistani laws are secular.

I have given multiple examples (FACTS) which show Aain-e-Pakistan treats non muslims as second class citizens.

Now you have given ZERO proof where COI (Constitution of India) discriminates based on religion.

In fact you already conceded that Indian law does not restrict ANY religious freedom of muslims.:ROFLMAO:

A-e-P treats non muslim pakistanis as second class, but but but apart from that it is truly secular. This is brother @Stewie logic, folks. :ROFLMAO:
Can you please send me text of aine Pakistan that says they are “second class” citizens please?

Or are you going to use the Rig Vedas defense again?
 
Hilarious!
You stopped at the religious freedoms part and got so excited jumping up and down at little old me’s concession, which by the way I have to say I’m flattered matters so much to you, you didn’t even go on to read the rest of it.

Do religious freedoms mean more to you than “general freedoms”? Such as having a nice juicy steak on the weekend without the fear of being run over by a crazy Hindu? Answer that first and then we can discuss the rest, brother @CricketCartoons
Good to see you falling back to your old defense mechanism, which is to avoid discussion with me.

Folks! @Stewie again reaffirms that COI does not restrict any religious freedom of muslims in India.

He has also been exposed for his lie that Pakistani laws are secular except for head of state rule.
 
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Can you please send me text of aine Pakistan that says they are “second class” citizens please?

Or are you going to use the Rig Vedas defense again?
LOL. The gift that keeps giving!

Pakistani law forbids ahmadis to call their mosques as mosques.
Pakistani law denies non musloms from becoming head of state.
Pakistani law has Islam as state religion.
Pakistani law has blasphemy law for Islam.
Hudood ordinance is based on Sharia.

But But But, non muslims are not second class because Aain-e-Pakistan does not use the word "second class" anywhere.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Haha, way to divert the topic but ok fine I’ll play along.

Who says you can have a state religion and can’t be secular? That’s the Indian definition of secular by the way. India says it caters to all faiths but why is it that only one religion and a few castes from that religion have had held the PM post of the nation? The proof is in the pudding. How many Christian’s, Muslims, lower caste or scheduled caste people have held the PM position?
Brahmin Hindus are what percentage of the total population and compare that with the number of Brahmins who have been the PM of India and it will open your eyes.

Claiming something is one thing but backing it up with facts is another. You can chest thump secularism to death but the numbers totally betray the narrative put out by india.

How many non hindus are in the current PMs cabinet out of total and how many total positions are there in the cabinet?

I own up to Pakistan’s flaws in my response to anikrc1, don’t need to run away or hide.

Can you frankly admit the same? Time to man up my friend. Nobody will hold any lower opinion of you than already, if you did.
India's official head of state is president. A Muslim became president. A Sikh became PM.
 
India's official head of state is president. A Muslim became president. A Sikh became PM.
So what? Has a muslim become a prime minister? Unless a muslim becomes a prime minister, india is not secular.

But Pakistan is secular, of course, obviously apart from everything else which makes non muslims second class citizens.
 
You are attributing the movement to the right solely on interactions here. My point is that what you are saying is being simplistic.

For example cricket cartoons had an epiphany after CAA incidents, Rajdeep had epiphany after hearing Rudolph the Red nose Reindeer.

I believe most posters are sensible enough to look past troll posts and it doesn't have an impact on their politics.

I already answered this in another thread when you asked the same question.

It is never one thing which leads to change in ideologies, it’s a combination of many things.

I quoted the poster since he has been starting threads and gaslighting Indians/Hindus for around a year now so that he can get interactions on PP to increase traffic and as a result increase ads revenue.
I wanted him to realise he is part of the problem even though it might be his job to do it but his job is spreading hate for monetary gains of the owners of PP.
 
India's official head of state is president. A Muslim became president. A Sikh became PM.
we don’t get anywhere with these discussions if we are not honest. You were correct with your analysis and I conceded to it with all honesty.
Can you truly and honestly claim you are correct here? President might be the “official” head of state but is he really the guy in charge? Isn’t the role figurative in nature?
Please be honest. If you make any other different argument about the discrepancy in the leadership demographic than this lame little excuse at least we can discuss. LOL
 
I already answered this in another thread when you asked the same question.

It is never one thing which leads to change in ideologies, it’s a combination of many things.

I quoted the poster since he has been starting threads and gaslighting Indians/Hindus for around a year now so that he can get interactions on PP to increase traffic and as a result increase ads revenue.
I wanted him to realise he is part of the problem even though it might be his job to do it but his job is spreading hate for monetary gains of the owners of PP.

OP makes good thought-provoking threads which lends for interesting discussions, not sure what you're so upset about.
 
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OP makes good thought-provoking threads which lends for interesting discussions, not sure what you're so upset about.


I would rather people be brutally honest. Like I admired when you directly mocked my religion. That is how we should be. Showing what we truly think of each other. Not hiding behind fake social niceties.
 
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Can you please send me text of aine Pakistan that says they are “second class” citizens please?

Or are you going to use the Rig Vedas defense again?

"the constitution requires that the president and prime minister be Muslims. All senior officials, including members of parliament, must swear an oath to protect the country’s Islamic identity."

Open practice of religious Apartheid.
 

"the constitution requires that the president and prime minister be Muslims. All senior officials, including members of parliament, must swear an oath to protect the country’s Islamic identity."

Open practice of religious Apartheid.
I have already accepted that piece. Is your sole argument that President or PM cannot be NON MUSLIMS, hence they are second class citizens?

There are tons of immigrants in the USA, people like Musk, the Hindu CEO of Google, Arnold Schwarzenengger, etc. They cannot be president of the USA. Are they then 2nd class citizens?

Religious apartheid part is also subjective. I would like to look into this bit more as to what this even means, when you swear an oath to protect the country's Islamic identity. That is interesting. Does it mean we put non Muslims in cages? I think we can do that without any of the negative connotations that might come with it.
 
I have already accepted that piece. Is your sole argument that President or PM cannot be NON MUSLIMS, hence they are second class citizens?

There are tons of immigrants in the USA, people like Musk, the Hindu CEO of Google, Arnold Schwarzenengger, etc. They cannot be president of the USA. Are they then 2nd class citizens?

Religious apartheid part is also subjective. I would like to look into this bit more as to what this even means, when you swear an oath to protect the country's Islamic identity. That is interesting. Does it mean we put non Muslims in cages? I think we can do that without any of the negative connotations that might come with it.
You are comparing naturalized citizens with natural born citizens. Very poor comparison.
If a person is born in US irrespective of religion, race, sexual orientation etc can become President.

When a person takes an oath to become PM or President, he/she should work to protect the rights of all citizens including their right to worship whichever God they choose to. In the above case, it clearly only mentions about protecting Islamic identity of Pakistan. You can beat around the bush all you want. The above is clear religious apartheid.

The bias is glaring even in so called progressive Muslim countries like Malaysia. You can convert to Islam, but you cannot leave Islam if you choose to.

"Muslims who seek to convert to another religion must first obtain approval from a sharia court to declare themselves as “apostates.” Sharia courts seldom grant such requests, especially for those born Muslim and ethnic Malays, and those who have converted to Islam. Penalties for apostasy vary by state. In the states of Perak, Melaka, Sabah, and Pahang, apostasy is a criminal offense punishable by a fine or prison term. In Pahang, courts may also impose up to six strokes of the cane for apostasy. The maximum penalty for apostasy in the states of Kelantan and Terengganu is death, but courts have never imposed this penalty, and its legality remains untested. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) report that most converts from Islam prefer to do so privately, without legal approval. Nationally, civil courts generally cede authority to sharia courts in cases concerning conversion from Islam. In some states, sharia courts allow one parent to convert children to Islam without the consent of the second parent. The law does not restrict the rights of non-Muslims to change their religious beliefs and affiliation. A non-Muslim wishing to marry a Muslim must convert to Islam for the sharia court to officially recognize the marriage."
 
You are comparing naturalized citizens with natural born citizens. Very poor comparison.
If a person is born in US irrespective of religion, race, sexual orientation etc can become President.

When a person takes an oath to become PM or President, he/she should work to protect the rights of all citizens including their right to worship whichever God they choose to. In the above case, it clearly only mentions about protecting Islamic identity of Pakistan. You can beat around the bush all you want. The above is clear religious apartheid.

The bias is glaring even in so called progressive Muslim countries like Malaysia. You can convert to Islam, but you cannot leave Islam if you choose to.

"Muslims who seek to convert to another religion must first obtain approval from a sharia court to declare themselves as “apostates.” Sharia courts seldom grant such requests, especially for those born Muslim and ethnic Malays, and those who have converted to Islam. Penalties for apostasy vary by state. In the states of Perak, Melaka, Sabah, and Pahang, apostasy is a criminal offense punishable by a fine or prison term. In Pahang, courts may also impose up to six strokes of the cane for apostasy. The maximum penalty for apostasy in the states of Kelantan and Terengganu is death, but courts have never imposed this penalty, and its legality remains untested. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) report that most converts from Islam prefer to do so privately, without legal approval. Nationally, civil courts generally cede authority to sharia courts in cases concerning conversion from Islam. In some states, sharia courts allow one parent to convert children to Islam without the consent of the second parent. The law does not restrict the rights of non-Muslims to change their religious beliefs and affiliation. A non-Muslim wishing to marry a Muslim must convert to Islam for the sharia court to officially recognize the marriage."
I don't think you should waste so much time. All his points can be ripped apart in a few lines. @Stewie should I do the honours again?
 
You are comparing naturalized citizens with natural born citizens. Very poor comparison.
If a person is born in US irrespective of religion, race, sexual orientation etc can become President.

When a person takes an oath to become PM or President, he/she should work to protect the rights of all citizens including their right to worship whichever God they choose to. In the above case, it clearly only mentions about protecting Islamic identity of Pakistan. You can beat around the bush all you want. The above is clear religious apartheid.

The bias is glaring even in so called progressive Muslim countries like Malaysia. You can convert to Islam, but you cannot leave Islam if you choose to.

"Muslims who seek to convert to another religion must first obtain approval from a sharia court to declare themselves as “apostates.” Sharia courts seldom grant such requests, especially for those born Muslim and ethnic Malays, and those who have converted to Islam. Penalties for apostasy vary by state. In the states of Perak, Melaka, Sabah, and Pahang, apostasy is a criminal offense punishable by a fine or prison term. In Pahang, courts may also impose up to six strokes of the cane for apostasy. The maximum penalty for apostasy in the states of Kelantan and Terengganu is death, but courts have never imposed this penalty, and its legality remains untested. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) report that most converts from Islam prefer to do so privately, without legal approval. Nationally, civil courts generally cede authority to sharia courts in cases concerning conversion from Islam. In some states, sharia courts allow one parent to convert children to Islam without the consent of the second parent. The law does not restrict the rights of non-Muslims to change their religious beliefs and affiliation. A non-Muslim wishing to marry a Muslim must convert to Islam for the sharia court to officially recognize the marriage."
I think you missed the whole point or as usual tried to evade the main point.

Countries have laws. In USA, the law is you have to be a born citizen to run for President. In Pakistan you have to be a muslim. Is it my fault i am not born here? Why cant I run for President of the USA? Isnt that discriminatory? Guess what, I can still run for PM of Pakistan if I become a Muslim but there is absolutely no way I can become president of USA just because I was not born here?

The point is every country is going to have laws of its own. You very judiciously called the ones in Pakistan apartheid laws. One can make the same claim about US law for the eligibility to run for president.
 
I think you missed the whole point or as usual tried to evade the main point.

Countries have laws. In USA, the law is you have to be a born citizen to run for President. In Pakistan you have to be a muslim. Is it my fault i am not born here? Why cant I run for President of the USA? Isnt that discriminatory? Guess what, I can still run for PM of Pakistan if I become a Muslim but there is absolutely no way I can become president of USA just because I was not born here?

The point is every country is going to have laws of its own. You very judiciously called the ones in Pakistan apartheid laws. One can make the same claim about US law for the eligibility to run for president.
Are you serious or trolling now?

You can run for president if you are born in US. Your religion does not matter. In Pakistan's case, you cannot run for president if you are not a Muslim even though you are born in Pakistan. Aren't Pakistani Christians, Ahmedis and Hindus not their natural born citizens? Their only fault is they are not Muslim. If you cannot see the disparity, I don't know what to say.

It is Pakistan's constitution and it is up to them to make changes if needed. Its their choice. However, for an outsider, it is clear cut religious apartheid.
 
Are you serious or trolling now?

You can run for president if you are born in US. Your religion does not matter. In Pakistan's case, you cannot run for president if you are not a Muslim even though you are born in Pakistan. Aren't Pakistani Christians, Ahmedis and Hindus not their natural born citizens? Their only fault is they are not Muslim. If you cannot see the disparity, I don't know what to say.

It is Pakistan's constitution and it is up to them to make changes if needed. Its their choice. However, for an outsider, it is clear cut religious apartheid.
I have no idea what to say either if you cannot simply grasp a concept because it is outside of your wagon wheel. You are not even showing any intent to try to understand it.

There are laws in each country about how they operate, some may base it on religious philosophy, some may do it on the basis of place of birth and some may not have any at all on paper, as in the case of India, but their policies speak louder than any words on paper on the basis of actual results.

Once you figure out what percentage of Hindu PMs have been non Brahmin Hindus and compare that to the percentage of Brahmin Hindus in the total Indian population, please let us know.

On second thought we all know you will run away from that as well because you are too busy redefining the word apartheid. :)
 
I have no idea what to say either if you cannot simply grasp a concept because it is outside of your wagon wheel. You are not even showing any intent to try to understand it.

There are laws in each country about how they operate, some may base it on religious philosophy, some may do it on the basis of place of birth and some may not have any at all on paper, as in the case of India, but their policies speak louder than any words on paper on the basis of actual results.

Once you figure out what percentage of Hindu PMs have been non Brahmin Hindus and compare that to the percentage of Brahmin Hindus in the total Indian population, please let us know.

On second thought we all know you will run away from that as well because you are too busy redefining the word apartheid. :)
If the law in a country tells a natural born citizen that you cannot become this or that because you do not follow certain religion, then it is religious apartheid.

I know you are trying your best defend it by doing gymnastics. Its futile. Just accept it and be proud of the law. It is your country and your laws. We as outsiders will call it as we see it.
 
Are you serious or trolling now?

You can run for president if you are born in US. Your religion does not matter. In Pakistan's case, you cannot run for president if you are not a Muslim even though you are born in Pakistan. Aren't Pakistani Christians, Ahmedis and Hindus not their natural born citizens? Their only fault is they are not Muslim. If you cannot see the disparity, I don't know what to say.

It is Pakistan's constitution and it is up to them to make changes if needed. Its their choice. However, for an outsider, it is clear cut religious apartheid.
it is discrimination but not apartheid
 
If the law in a country tells a natural born citizen that you cannot become this or that because you do not follow certain religion, then it is religious apartheid.

I know you are trying your best defend it by doing gymnastics. Its futile. Just accept it and be proud of the law. It is your country and your laws. We as outsiders will call it as we see it.
We don't need you, an Indian to tell us to be proud of our laws. LOL.

But maybe you do need someone to point out the discrepancy in your caste based elitist political system because you guys have been turning a blind eye to it by bashing everything and everyone else under the sun as a distraction.
 
Can we call it legalized discrimination then?
you can call it whatever you want, who cares? just like Americans don't care if I cry about not being able to run for president or if Christians, Muslims, achyouts and all the backward class and dalits having no chance to become PM of India, you will not care. THats just the reality of it.
 
We don't need you, an Indian to tell us to be proud of our laws. LOL.

But maybe you do need someone to point out the discrepancy in your caste based elitist political system because you guys have been turning a blind eye to it by bashing everything and everyone else under the sun.
I bash caste system unabatedly. I don't think it ever served any good purpose and definitely not in this day and age. It must be binned ASAP.

Can you do the same to the discrimination against non-muslims in Pakistan? Just say that it is a dastardly law to prevent non-muslims from becoming PM or Prez. I will wait for your response.
 
you can call it whatever you want, who cares? just like Americans don't care if I cry about not being able to run for president or if Christians, Muslims, achyouts and all the backward class and dalits having no chance to become PM of India, you will not care. THats just the reality of it.
:facepalm
 
Can we call it legalized discrimination then?
Yes, as it limits the full participation of minorities in political life.

The counter argument is that as Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, there is a religious aspect to the role and that a non-muslim can't perform. is that because as I am a non-christian me being exempt from being the head of the church of england is also legal discrimination.

I'm not sure how much merit the counter argument has to be honest.
 
Pakistan should abolish this rule as long as the constitution upholds Islam and it is a parliamentary system whats the harm in non muslim becoming PM? If the fear is that he/she wants to bring in laws that are unislamic the parlimentarians can debate it and vote accordingly.
 
I bash caste system unabatedly. I don't think it ever served any good purpose and definitely not in this day and age. It must be binned ASAP.

Can you do the same to the discrimination against non-muslims in Pakistan? Just say that it is a dastardly law to prevent non-muslims from becoming PM or Prez. I will wait for your response.
In all honesty, it is not my call anymore. I don't live in Pakistan but I do identify as a Pakistani by race. I don't vote in Pakistani elections. How that country is and should be run is upto the people who live there and make their own choices. I don't think I do enough to fairly have any say in that matter. My personal view would be that eventually, I would like Pakistan to get out of the "labelling" business. A state should have no business in declaring people muslims or non-muslims. it should also allow for non Muslims to become PM and be given equal rights to run for other offices within the state.

Now once they remove any such nonsense from their constitution, they can simply continue with their unofficial policies. Basically take a leaf out of India's book so people like Brother @Champs_Pal who have no business commenting on their policies can pick on something else to complain about Muslims on PP. :)
 
you can call it whatever you want, who cares? just like Americans don't care if I cry about not being able to run for president or if Christians, Muslims, achyouts and all the backward class and dalits having no chance to become PM of India, you will not care. THats just the reality of it.
So now Pakistan is as discriminatory as USA? Because USA wants a natural born citizen as president and Pakistan wants a muslim as a president?

Does USA have a state religion?
Does USA have blasphemy laws favoring one religion only?
Does USA law declare any sect of christianity as non christians and prohibits them their religious rights, like Pakistan prohibits Ahmadiyas from even using Islamic greetings and calling their mosque a mosque?
Does USA have law protecting endowment properties for a particular religion?

Is the discriminatory law of Pakistan against non muslims, so normalized that you find USA laws as discriminatory as Ain-e-Pakistan?

Folks. here is a so called moderate muslim, living in USA, enjoying the freedoms given by USA, finding equivalence between Pakistan and USA. These people don't know what is liberty unless it is taken away from them.Comparing the two reveals not just a misunderstanding, but a troubling normalization of oppression. @Stewie sees religious discrimination as NORMAL and ETHICAL, because this is the value system he has seen around him.
 
Pakistan should abolish this rule as long as the constitution upholds Islam and it is a parliamentary system whats the harm in non muslim becoming PM? If the fear is that he/she wants to bring in laws that are unislamic the parlimentarians can debate it and vote accordingly.
Salman Taseer was killed, not because he wanted to end the blasphemy rule, but because he didn't want the law to be abused. The killer had a sea of supporters to attend his janaza, and is a martyr for Islam.

Pakistan can not DARE to even tinker with any rule.

Religious discrimination is normalized to the extent that it is considered the RIGHT thing to do, and I am talking about the law of the land, not even the society.
 
Salman Taseer was killed, not because he wanted to end the blasphemy rule, but because he didn't want the law to be abused. The killer had a sea of supporters to attend his janaza, and is a martyr for Islam.

Pakistan can not DARE to even tinker with any rule.

Religious discrimination is normalized to the extent that it is considered the RIGHT thing to do, and I am talking about the law of the land, not even the society.
And Pakistan is not a great example to be..I understand the constitution normalises discrimination there but why should Indian constitution do the same?
 
No more off topic discussion guys...This is an anti Muslim bias thread not Pakistan
This discussion is very revealing, because a moderate muslim living in USA is defending the religious discrimination against non muslims in Pakistan, while also wanting more and more rights for muslims in India, after conceding that he cannot find one example where indian muslims religious freedom is restricted by the law.

Any normal person will develop anti Muslim bias to see the views of a moderate and modern muslim. Imagine what the fundamentalists would be believing then.
 
Yes, as it limits the full participation of minorities in political life.

The counter argument is that as Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, there is a religious aspect to the role and that a non-muslim can't perform. is that because as I am a non-christian me being exempt from being the head of the church of england is also legal discrimination.

I'm not sure how much merit the counter argument has to be honest.
Are you saying Islam is discriminatory?
 
Salman Taseer was killed, not because he wanted to end the blasphemy rule, but because he didn't want the law to be abused. The killer had a sea of supporters to attend his janaza, and is a martyr for Islam.

Pakistan can not DARE to even tinker with any rule.

Religious discrimination is normalized to the extent that it is considered the RIGHT thing to do, and I am talking about the law of the land, not even the society.
All you need to do is look for videos of Mumtaz Qadri on youtube and look at the comments section of each video.
 
Well what was CAA then?
This discussion is very revealing, because a moderate muslim living in USA is defending the religious discrimination against non muslims in Pakistan, while also wanting more and more rights for muslims in India, after conceding that he cannot find one example where indian muslims religious freedom is restricted by the law.

Any normal person will develop anti Muslim bias to see the views of a moderate and modern muslim. Imagine what the fundamentalists would be believing then.
 
Salman Taseer was killed, not because he wanted to end the blasphemy rule, but because he didn't want the law to be abused. The killer had a sea of supporters to attend his janaza, and is a martyr for Islam.

Pakistan can not DARE to even tinker with any rule.

Religious discrimination is normalized to the extent that it is considered the RIGHT thing to do, and I am talking about the law of the land, not even the society.
His supporters are pakistani equivalent of people like you that support vigilantes
 
I don't know if you are a Muslim. But if you are, kudos to you. I am reading this for the first time from a Pakistani. :salute

We don't hide behind disowning books like Hindus do with Rig Vedas and whatnot. We own it.

Now please enlighten yourself and read the Quran Karim if you have more questions about how you can try and fix the caste based societal issues of India.

No wait, you are a fellow naturalized American, aren't you? You cant vote in India, so it does not matter. But you sure seem to be hyperactive in discussions about India and the Muslim dynamic. so perhaps you can still study the Quran to satisfy the seemingly limitless curiosity you have about Muslims. Better yet go to a local masjid and spend some time there asking questions of the Imam there. You will feel a lot better, I promise.
 
I don't know if you are a Muslim. But if you are, kudos to you. I am reading this for the first time from a Pakistani. :salute
Nothing to give kudos on this is just normal for religions.

Hindu will discriminate based on certain criteria for example Muslim can't cook food because he may potentially be a beef eater.

Similarly Muslim discriminate. Christians discriminate when it comes to certain religious policies.

In the UK the real HOS ( Royal Family) can only be a Church of England adherent since they HOS is also Head of Church of England.

It is similar in Muslim countries because there is no separation of church and state. But I think we should adopt a stance where PM can be of any religion. It is unfair to young non Muslim kids growing up that they can't dream of the top job.
 
Hi
Nothing to give kudos on this is just normal for religions.

Hindu will discriminate based on certain criteria for example Muslim can't cook food because he may potentially be a beef eater.

Similarly Muslim discriminate. Christians discriminate when it comes to certain religious policies.

In the UK the real HOS ( Royal Family) can only be a Church of England adherent since they HOS is also Head of Church of England.

It is similar in Muslim countries because there is no separation of church and state. But I think we should adopt a stance where PM can be of any religion. It is unfair to young non Muslim kids growing up that they can't dream of the top job.
I think honest attempts such as this to reason will only elicit vows and gasps and such "outrageous" reactions from the Hindus. These are merely attempts to detract us from the main topic of discussion. There have been plenty of threads to discuss these issues of so-called discrimination within Pakistan. That is not the topic here now, is it?
 
Hi

I think honest attempts such as this to reason will only elicit vows and gasps and such "outrageous" reactions from the Hindus. These are merely attempts to detract us from the main topic of discussion. There have been plenty of threads to discuss these issues of so-called discrimination within Pakistan. That is not the topic here now, is it?
It's good to draw parallels because the examples may help understand the thoughts of the other party.
 
Nothing to give kudos on this is just normal for religions.

Hindu will discriminate based on certain criteria for example Muslim can't cook food because he may potentially be a beef eater.

Similarly Muslim discriminate. Christians discriminate when it comes to certain religious policies.

In the UK the real HOS ( Royal Family) can only be a Church of England adherent since they HOS is also Head of Church of England.

It is similar in Muslim countries because there is no separation of church and state. But I think we should adopt a stance where PM can be of any religion. It is unfair to young non Muslim kids growing up that they can't dream of the top job.
Completely agree with you. All religions discriminate because they are all man made.
We can clearly see human aspects like bias and discrimination in all religions and cults.
 
Good of you to admit anything man made can be subject to scrutiny and discrimination including their "secular" laws.
Everything should be subjected to scrutiny. Nothing can be improved without scrutiny and thorough testing.
 

Muslims in the new India: How one week showcases their escalating persecution​


In recent years, India has witnessed a disturbing rise in communal violence, reflecting deepening religious divides that threaten the country’s secular fabric. While communal tensions have long simmered beneath the surface, a series of violent incidents over the course of just one week, from August 28 to September 1, has brought these tensions into sharp focus. This wave of violence, marked by attacks on the Muslim communities across the length and breadth of India, has not only raised concerns about the safety and security of Muslims, but has also underscored the growing complicity of state machinery in perpetuating communal hatred.

The incidents, occurring within a span of five days, are not isolated events but rather part of a broader pattern of targeted aggression against Muslims. These attacks range from brutal lynching’s to the destruction of properties and places of worship, often incited by inflammatory rhetoric from political leaders and fuelled by a sense of impunity among the perpetrators. The alarming frequency and intensity of these incidents point to a systematic erosion of communal harmony, where violence against a particular community is increasingly normalised.

What is particularly troubling is the role of state institutions in either directly or indirectly facilitating these crimes? In some cases, law enforcement agencies have been accused of turning a blind eye to the violence, failing to protect victims, or even actively participating in the oppression of minority communities. This tacit or overt state support emboldens perpetrators, creating an environment where communal violence can thrive unchecked.

The week’s events also highlights the role of social media in spreading hate and inciting violence. Misinformation and provocative content circulate rapidly online, stoking communal tensions and leading to real-world consequences. The digital age has amplified the reach and impact of communal propaganda, making it easier for hate to spread and harder for authorities to contain the fallout.

 

Muslims in the new India: How one week showcases their escalating persecution​


In recent years, India has witnessed a disturbing rise in communal violence, reflecting deepening religious divides that threaten the country’s secular fabric. While communal tensions have long simmered beneath the surface, a series of violent incidents over the course of just one week, from August 28 to September 1, has brought these tensions into sharp focus. This wave of violence, marked by attacks on the Muslim communities across the length and breadth of India, has not only raised concerns about the safety and security of Muslims, but has also underscored the growing complicity of state machinery in perpetuating communal hatred.

The incidents, occurring within a span of five days, are not isolated events but rather part of a broader pattern of targeted aggression against Muslims. These attacks range from brutal lynching’s to the destruction of properties and places of worship, often incited by inflammatory rhetoric from political leaders and fuelled by a sense of impunity among the perpetrators. The alarming frequency and intensity of these incidents point to a systematic erosion of communal harmony, where violence against a particular community is increasingly normalised.

What is particularly troubling is the role of state institutions in either directly or indirectly facilitating these crimes? In some cases, law enforcement agencies have been accused of turning a blind eye to the violence, failing to protect victims, or even actively participating in the oppression of minority communities. This tacit or overt state support emboldens perpetrators, creating an environment where communal violence can thrive unchecked.

The week’s events also highlights the role of social media in spreading hate and inciting violence. Misinformation and provocative content circulate rapidly online, stoking communal tensions and leading to real-world consequences. The digital age has amplified the reach and impact of communal propaganda, making it easier for hate to spread and harder for authorities to contain the fallout.

It is very funny you shared this. I think this sort of stuff should be subject to more scrutiny than anything else. When you have people like this guy claiming love jihad, no wonder almost all the Hindu posters on this forum like Brother @Bhaijaan and this other cartoon guy, etc honestly believe Hindus are on their way to extinction because their women are being accosted by Muslims and converted.

India simply loves to match Pakistan hit by hit. They felt they were falling behind in extremism and qatlo gharat and and trying to catch up now.
 
It is very funny you shared this. I think this sort of stuff should be subject to more scrutiny than anything else. When you have people like this guy claiming love jihad, no wonder almost all the Hindu posters on this forum like Brother @Bhaijaan and this other cartoon guy, etc honestly believe Hindus are on their way to extinction because their women are being accosted by Muslims and converted.

India simply loves to match Pakistan hit by hit. They felt they were falling behind in extremism and qatlo gharat and and trying to catch up now.
Yep the report seems to suggest wrong in the sense that they think it's been there for just a week
 
We don't need you, an Indian to tell us to be proud of our laws. LOL.

But maybe you do need someone to point out the discrepancy in your caste based elitist political system because you guys have been turning a blind eye to it by bashing everything and everyone else under the sun as a distraction.
Living in denial and delusion. No wonder Pak is the state it is now because of views like this. Ind has never denied its deficiencies. The societal evils are already banned per Ind law. Just because they were written in some ancient books doesnt mean it's gospel unlike for you. No wonder Islam doesn't to move forward into the modern era.
 
Yes, as it limits the full participation of minorities in political life.

The counter argument is that as Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, there is a religious aspect to the role and that a non-muslim can't perform. is that because as I am a non-christian me being exempt from being the head of the church of england is also legal discrimination.

I'm not sure how much merit the counter argument has to be honest.
Exactly. When in minority - want full secularism. The moment you are in majority- want Islamic law maybe sharia law and to heck with minorities rights. Atleast thanks for accepting it.
 
In all honesty, it is not my call anymore. I don't live in Pakistan but I do identify as a Pakistani by race. I don't vote in Pakistani elections. How that country is and should be run is upto the people who live there and make their own choices. I don't think I do enough to fairly have any say in that matter. My personal view would be that eventually, I would like Pakistan to get out of the "labelling" business. A state should have no business in declaring people muslims or non-muslims. it should also allow for non Muslims to become PM and be given equal rights to run for other offices within the state.

Now once they remove any such nonsense from their constitution, they can simply continue with their unofficial policies. Basically take a leaf out of India's book so people like Brother @Champs_Pal who have no business commenting on their policies can pick on something else to complain about Muslims on PP. :)
But that's the core issue with Islamic countries. Islam the religion defines them. Even if some of the things are primitive and medieval in concept. And it's not an isolated case. Every Islamic country and by that I mean a Muslim majority country has Islamic laws and constitution eith Islam as state religion and no minorities rights. Whereas all western and European countries even though are Christian majority are secular democracies. Ind even though it's Hindu majority- its still a secular country. Nobody in the west cares what religion you belong to and people's entire lives dont revolve around religion
 
We don't hide behind disowning books like Hindus do with Rig Vedas and whatnot. We own it.

Now please enlighten yourself and read the Quran Karim if you have more questions about how you can try and fix the caste based societal issues of India.

No wait, you are a fellow naturalized American, aren't you? You cant vote in India, so it does not matter. But you sure seem to be hyperactive in discussions about India and the Muslim dynamic. so perhaps you can still study the Quran to satisfy the seemingly limitless curiosity you have about Muslims. Better yet go to a local masjid and spend some time there asking questions of the Imam there. You will feel a lot better, I promise.
You are saying the opposite. When you find some verse conflicting with your modern values, you just find ways to not practice it, or you tell yourself that the teaching was meant for a particular age and time ( this is a good thing to march ahead while keeping your belief intact). But, an important but, you never criticise it. It is because you don't own it. You are owned by it.
 
Pakistanis live in their deluded world which is why they’re an irrelevant failed country today.

Bharatiyas are very well aware of the realities of the world and the realities of the disloyal Muslims that live in Bharat and yet pray and conspire for its demise. But that will remain a distant dream only as Modi ji has revived Sanatan in the 21st century.

Every anti national will pay price for the crimes against Rashtra.
 
Poor subcontinental Muslims are the worst, most deluded, most anti national and hypocritical of all the people. They desire Islamic caliphate upon non Muslim nations, obsess about converting every non Muslim eventually, suppress indigenous religions and cultures wherever they grow or equal the majority and yet you have discussions here on why they wonder the non Muslims despise them? You are literally an existential threat in the longer run.

You are just embarrassed you could not conquer Sanatan despite millennium of desperate efforts where you combined every tribal warlords from Central Asia, Turks , Persia and yet Sanatan stands 1 billion strong to this date holding the fortress , much much stronger than all of your nations. Sanatan is untameable because we are strong 💪🏻.
 
Nothing against Pakistanis, they are a nation and wish them well. Even as Muslims despite of all their efforts to insult Hinduism, I would say it hardly matters as they’re weak, irrelevant and locked out by an international border.

It’s the Muslims in Bharat in particular that get on my nerves. All the centuries of living here and yet anti national. People can say whatever and try to revert a real and serious discussion but ask yourself when or how many times you ever saw a Muslim passionately fighting for or defending Bharat at any forum unless being paid for it or making money out of it hence a few celebrities, politicians, govt officials are excluded. Here on PP also, have you ever seen a Muslim Bharatiya showing love, passion for the country and defending it against hateful Pakistani propaganda. They’re just happy with all the citizen benefits while at the same time conspiring against Bharat all the time. Time has come for them to be held accountable for their historical and current wrong doings and they know it very well hence all the panic. It won’t help.
 
But that's the core issue with Islamic countries. Islam the religion defines them. Even if some of the things are primitive and medieval in concept. And it's not an isolated case. Every Islamic country and by that I mean a Muslim majority country has Islamic laws and constitution eith Islam as state religion and no minorities rights. Whereas all western and European countries even though are Christian majority are secular democracies. Ind even though it's Hindu majority- its still a secular country. Nobody in the west cares what religion you belong to and people's entire lives dont revolve around religion
I think you have been sold a whammy all this time by whatever they tell you guys in India. It behooves one to fact check. There are a lot of countries that are majority Muslim but don’t have Islamic laws or constitution in entirety.
Pakistan doesn’t. It’s a mix of common wealth law and some Islamic laws. It’s not perfect but when done right it works. Look at Malaysia and Indonesia.

Anyhow let us not use the word “secular” to describe western nations. Indias definition of secular is totally incorrect in my view. I think secular in most of the world kind of means separation of religion and government and that’s not happening in India.



Anyhow the bottom line is that unfortunately in this world there is a thing called democracy. If a vast majority of people want a state religion with all the other baggage, what can you do? Say no to them? Obviously they won’t care how it is “bad” for them because they are Muslims.


Most majority Muslim countries are not multi religious except for a handful.
 
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