[VIDEOS] Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

[Stewie]

They can say what they like. I won't change my beliefs or mindset as a reaction to what they say.

It is easy for you to say that because you are not a Muslim living in India now, are you?

Or do you live in India?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It is easy for you to say that because you are not a Muslim living in India now, are you?

Or do you live in India?

Even if I was in India.

I won't let the behaviour of radicals who think it's ok to belittle my holy figures allow me to change my point of view to the extent I belittle there's. I'm not a reactionary.

If I lived in India I would happy follow the scholarship of many Ulema who have advised people to avoid eating beef as it hurts Hindu feelings.

 

[Stewie]

Even if I was in India.

I won't let the behaviour of radicals who think it's ok to belittle my holy figures allow me to change my point of view to the extent I belittle there's. I'm not a reactionary.

If I lived in India I would happy follow the scholarship of many Ulema who have advised people to avoid eating beef as it hurts Hindu feelings.

Fair enough. I respect that. That’s your personal view and you are willing to sacrifice a personal freedom. I’m not sure how many Hindus would do something similar for their Muslim countrymen though.

It also puts into question their status as a truly democratic and secular state.

 

[Red-Indian]

They have also tried to show to us how important their right to draw cartoons of our religious figures is to them as well.
They want this freedom. You can review the popular Hindu opinion here on various threads.

So essentially you're not willing to accept that Hindus (insofar as they're capable) want to protect one animal they consider sacred - the cow from being slaughtered.

And you don't need Hindus to accept that you want to protect (insofar as you're capable) one historical figure you consider sacred - your prophet from ridicule.

You want both sides to have the freedom to slaughter and ridicule and you want that no violence to result from this.

I think you or your parents have left the subcontinent too long ago and have no conception of the identity link to religion here.

 

[Stewie]

So essentially you're not willing to accept that Hindus (insofar as they're capable) want to protect one animal they consider sacred - the cow from being slaughtered.

And you don't need Hindus to accept that you want to protect (insofar as you're capable) one historical figure you consider sacred - your prophet from ridicule.

You want both sides to have the freedom to slaughter and ridicule and you want that no violence to result from this.

I think you or your parents have left the subcontinent too long ago and have no conception of the identity link to religion here.

On the contrary, I do.


And I also believe the whole argument from my side has been India is not truly secular in the basis of this belief.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Fair enough. I respect that. That’s your personal view and you are willing to sacrifice a personal freedom. I’m not sure how many Hindus would do something similar for their Muslim countrymen though.

It also puts into question their status as a truly democratic and secular state.

Again with respect to Hindus I don't give two hoots what they would or wouldn't do for their own Muslim countrymen.

I can't base my behavior and morality on the behavior of another community.

India isn't secular. There are laws that benefit Muslims too. They aren't perfect and Modi is setting them back further but they have done well to create a system that functions despite the chaos and variables that affect them.

Anyway with regards to beef do you know Humayan never ate it after he saw communal violence and Akbar actually banned it. Through to modern times Maulana Muhammad Ali refrained from it and encouraged Muslims to and Deoband Ulema have asked people to be sensitive to Hindu beliefs and refrain from slaughtering on Eid.

I only learned all of this not too recently. I am proud of this tradition and open mindedness of the subcontinent Muslims and hope it continues. That's the type of society I'd want to live in.

 

[Stewie]

Again with respect to Hindus I don't give two hoots what they would or wouldn't do for their own Muslim countrymen.

I can't base my behavior and morality on the behavior of another community.

India isn't secular. There are laws that benefit Muslims too. They aren't perfect and Modi is setting them back further but they have done well to create a system that functions despite the chaos and variables that affect them.

Anyway with regards to beef do you know Humayan never ate it after he saw communal violence and Akbar actually banned it. Through to modern times Maulana Muhammad Ali refrained from it and encouraged Muslims to and Deoband Ulema have asked people to be sensitive to Hindu beliefs and refrain from slaughtering on Eid.

I only learned all of this not too recently. I am proud of this tradition and open mindedness of the subcontinent Muslims and hope it continues. That's the type of society I'd want to live in.

Thank you!


This is all I have been trying to say. Everything else here is just noise!

 

[uppercut]

Not sure what you are trying to prove here either.

you tell me ... you were the one that introduced what happens in USA to prove whatever you wanted to prove about hinduism whereas the topic of this thread is related to what happens in India.

Kindly stop blaming Islam itself and Muslims all over the world for what you are experiencing in your own country due to your latest anti Islam and anti Muslim policies. That’s all I am going to add to it.

Muslims are second in the world after Christians and in most settled civilized nations of the world they are productive and peaceful members of society. It only seems like in India you guys have this problem. Maybe a more introspective look into why that is is needed.

This thread and most importantly YOUR OWN despicable posts and the contempt you have for beliefs of Hindus tells a live and very real story of why there can be no hope for peaceful co-existence with muslims. It just aint happening no matter how much we try. And the Western world by and large is realizing that too.

 

[Red-Indian]

Thank you!


This is all I have been trying to say. Everything else here is just noise!

Ah okay. If that's the term that offends you, what would you like a country that allows some exceptions to each of its religions - Hinduism (cow slaughter ban), Islam (polygamy), Christianity (blasphemy) to call itself? Maybe multi-religious? I'm fine with that personally. I'm not wedded to the term 'secular.'

 

[uppercut]

I’m not sure how many Hindus would do something similar for their Muslim countrymen though.

Are you kidding me ? There is not a single cartoon that has been drawn in India that mocks muslim sentiments whereas I can assure you that Muslims have absolutely no compunctions at all when it comes to deliberately trampling on religious sentiments of non-muslims. ( Just look at this very thread for evidence !! )
​

 

[Stewie]

you tell me ... you were the one that introduced what happens in USA to prove whatever you wanted to prove about hinduism whereas the topic of this thread is related to what happens in India.




This thread and most importantly YOUR OWN despicable posts and the contempt you have for beliefs of Hindus tells a live and very real story of why there can be no hope for peaceful co-existence with muslims. It just aint happening no matter how much we try. And the Western world by and large is realizing that too.

I’m not sure what despicable posts are you referring to here? I have reiterated multiple times I respect the right of each nation or group to its belief.

But it’s foolish of you guys to believe you can accuse Muslims and their faith for everything under the sun and not expect a backlash. If you are pointing to my posts trying to prove my point of ugliness in Hinduism as well, I assure you it was in the manner of a response. I have no grudge against Hindus per se because they don’t infringe on my liberties and freedoms as an American. But I won’t stay silent if this forum is going to be used as a target ground by Hindutva brigade to criticize our faith.

Make of it what you will

 

[Stewie]

Ah okay. If that's the term that offends you, what would you like a country that allows some exceptions to each of its religions - Hinduism (cow slaughter ban), Islam (polygamy), Christianity (blasphemy) to call itself? Maybe multi-religious? I'm fine with that personally. I'm not wedded to the term 'secular.'

Not my place or business. But it’s certainly not what most Indians aspire to be at the moment. If anything it has gone back a generation perhaps. You guys definitely had the higher ground till the Hindutva stuff came along. Now we have people here from your country advocating a Hindu rashtra. Changing the name to bharat and all that jazz.

Then the same people turn around go to other threads and parrot talk of freedom of speech.

To me the way things are going in India, it’s not too far behind the state of religious extremism of sort we see in Pakistan sadly.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It is easy for you to say that because you are not a Muslim living in India now, are you?

Or do you live in India?

Do you live in India?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't think @DeadlyVenom does. Just as I don't believe say @cricketjoshila believes anyone who slaughters a cow deserves to be killed. Apologies to them if I'm speaking out of turn.

But I believe both of them are hurt by the events described - obscene portraits of your prophet and the death of a cow.

Of course, there's a few trolls who only pretend outrage and use this stuff to fuel their prejudices but that doesn't invalidate genuine feelings of the truly devout.

Most posters here believe that

What Muslims want is their right, but what Hindus want is negotiable.

Pakistan is Islamic but they want to give certificates to India on secularism.

Hindus here unequivocally condemned any insults to their prophet, but when cows are killed you will hear arguments about how its their religious right or fundamental right etc etc.

All this when they aren't even Indians.

 

[Stewie]

Most posters here believe that

What Muslims want is their right, but what Hindus want is negotiable.

Pakistan is Islamic but they want to give certificates to India on secularism.

Hindus here unequivocally condemned any insults to their prophet, but when cows are killed you will hear arguments about how its their religious right or fundamental right etc etc.

All this when they aren't even Indians.

Most of the stuff you are responding to with your post is about Hindu insistence on the right of freedom of speech and refusal to consider the respect of our Prophet. You can go back and view those comments mainly from people like @rpant_gabba

There are certain sections within Hindu/indian/so-called atheists who believe Muslims should not be extended such a courtesy. If you make claims like that of course you are going to face retaliation from Muslim posters here who love an opportunity to shove the mirror in their neighbors’ faces about claims regarding their so-called secularism.

There are also posters here such as yourself who have openly called out not just Muslims but Islam as a faith for telling its followers to go kill the non-believers. Furthermore any response by Muslims regarding the historical context of that stand is ignored by Hindus.

There are certain reasonable Indian posters here who admit there are flaws on both sides. There are also good points on both sides.

So kindly take your nonsense elsewhere and stop making blanket statements. Muslims don’t and would never claim for unreasonable things as rights. That’s another POS nonsense from you.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Hindu insistence on the right of freedom of speech

"Insistence" : how dare people exercise their constitutional rights! the horror

and refusal to consider the respect of our Prophet.

Damn straight. he is your prophet. not mine. you have the right to hold whoever you chose in reverence. I have the right to mock the religious fairy tales and religious character as I see fit.

Only one religions followers go around murdering people for exercising the rights in the their land.

You can go back and view those comments mainly from people like @rpant_gabba

Yup. I'm proud of those comments

 

[Stewie]

"Insistence" : how dare people exercise their constitutional rights! the horror

Damn straight. he is your prophet. not mine. you have the right to hold whoever you chose in reverence. I have the right to mock the religious fairy tales and religious character as I see fit.

Only one religions followers go around murdering people for exercising the rights in the their land.

Yup. I'm proud of those comments

You know very well what I mean when I used the word insistence to have the right to insult our prophet, not just freedom of speech.


Well then be prepared for reactions from our side. Unfortunately, this is the ugly side of it. We will dig up the ugliest, deepest darkest parts of Hinduism and Hindus and shove them in your face. There is no dearth of such stuff . And no matter how much you claim to be an atheist, unfortunately you will all get lumped into it.

I know it’s ugly but that’s the world of online forums. Lol

 

[Stewie]

"Insistence" : how dare people exercise their constitutional rights! the horror

Damn straight. he is your prophet. not mine. you have the right to hold whoever you chose in reverence. I have the right to mock the religious fairy tales and religious character as I see fit.

Only one religions followers go around murdering people for exercising the rights in the their land.

Yup. I'm proud of those comments

How would you classify Hindus going around bursting Muslims for slaughtering cows then? Or are they not Hindus?

 

[Stewie]

By the way there is a separate thread here about the wonderful Hindus who simply get along with everyone and never force their views on anyone maybe @rpant_gabba you can visit that thread as well.

[PICTURES] Elderly Muslim man beaten up on train over suspicion of carrying beef in Maharashtra

So sad to watch , cowardly attack on an elderly person. In a video that went viral on social media shows a dozen people surrounding and assaulting the man, verbally abusing him and even hurling rape threats These RSs extremists are sick , diseased ========================================...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

 

[Technics 1210]

I think it is time to call a spade a spade.

I personally hold the opinion that Hinduism has failed humanity and has woefully underachieved as an ideology. 5000 years in existence, and yet no major influence on humanity other than introducing the concept of 'something out of nothing'. (Neo-Hinduism - look it up).

Monotheistic faiths on the other hand professed intelligent causation, which is far more logical than pulling a rabbit out of a hat from nothing. This is why Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, have each in their own right contributed and shaped humanity within half the timeframe.

I think Hindutva is simply jealous of Islam. Just the Islamic riches throughout history alone has forced Hindutva to rewrite their own history. Hindus just could not compete, then you add the insult to injury, carving India into 3 pieces.

I think the partition hurts Hindutva because their motherland or homeland - whatever you want to call it - was carved by Muslims. Much like Hitler blamed the Jews for carving Germany after WW1 (Treaty of Versailles).

Sadly for the Hindutva mob, the past cannot be changed. Modi's India is mirroring 1930s Germany, blates, and it won't be long before a civil war breaks out in India.

It is true, up until 2014, India was on the ascendancy, but now, it is downhill - socially, morally, politically, and of course, economically - which explains which millions of Modi's so called supporters are desperate to flee 'incredible' India.

The funny thing is, these bailing Hindutvas will happily move to the Arab states, and abide by Muslims law. So maybe Islam is not the problem for Hindutva, but just a simple case of victimhood because even after 5000 years, India remains a mess and the first sign of victimhood is blaming others for your failures.

 

[uppercut]

. Just the Islamic riches throughout history alone has forced Hindutva to rewrite their own history.

Can you give some examples to back that?

 

[Hitman]

Can you give some examples to back that?

Just look at Pakistan.

 

[uppercut]

You know very well what I mean when I used the word insistence to have the right to insult our prophet, not just freedom of speech.


Well then be prepared for reactions from our side. Unfortunately, this is the ugly side of it. We will dig up the ugliest, deepest darkest parts of Hinduism and Hindus and shove them in your face. There is no dearth of such stuff . And no matter how much you claim to be an atheist, unfortunately you will all get lumped into it.

I know it’s ugly but that’s the world of online forums. Lol

There you go... now you know why the Hindus resort to violence when Muslims very deliberately insist on killing Cows knowing very well what it means to hindus.


Please spare me the usual nonsense that the rest of the world doesn't consider cows to be Holy.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thank you!


This is all I have been trying to say. Everything else here is just noise!

Since secularism is inferior to islamic rules, isn't it a good thing that india is not secular?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Most of the stuff you are responding to with your post is about Hindu insistence on the right of freedom of speech and refusal to consider the respect of our Prophet. You can go back and view those comments mainly from people like @rpant_gabba

There are certain sections within Hindu/indian/so-called atheists who believe Muslims should not be extended such a courtesy. If you make claims like that of course you are going to face retaliation from Muslim posters here who love an opportunity to shove the mirror in their neighbors’ faces about claims regarding their so-called secularism.

There are also posters here such as yourself who have openly called out not just Muslims but Islam as a faith for telling its followers to go kill the non-believers. Furthermore any response by Muslims regarding the historical context of that stand is ignored by Hindus.

There are certain reasonable Indian posters here who admit there are flaws on both sides. There are also good points on both sides.

So kindly take your nonsense elsewhere and stop making blanket statements. Muslims don’t and would never claim for unreasonable things as rights. That’s another POS nonsense from you.

Insulting any religion is a criminal offence in India. What anyone says doesn't change that.

Pakistan is an Islamic republic. Non muslims are second class citizens there. Any Pakistani opinion criticizing secularism in India is just a joke to laugh at.

Show me one post where i have been critical of Islam the religion. My criticism has always been of Muslims.

Muslims have and do claim a number of unreasonable things and thats a fact.

They want laws in a secular country to be as per Sharia. That's one of the examples.

There are number of threads here with news of Muslims occupying public places to offer namaz.

I can go on and on.

You can tell all this nonsense to some westerner and he may believe you, but i have grown up in a state with 30 percent muslim population. I will not be hoodwinked.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Since secularism is inferior to islamic rules, isn't it a good thing that india is not secular?

India should be secular because Muslims are a minority here and minority rights matter.

But if Muslims are in majority, Islamic rules take precedence.

 

[Hitman]

India should be secular because Muslims are a minority here and minority rights matter.

But if Muslims are in majority, Islamic rules take precedence.

Smart people in the West are slowly waking up to it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Smart people in the West are slowly waking up to it.

We have already waken up. That's what matters.

 

[CricketCartoons]

India should be secular because Muslims are a minority here and minority rights matter.

But if Muslims are in majority, Islamic rules take precedence.

@Stewie is using "india is not secular" as a get out of jail card for all his failed arguments and beatings. Western secularism is only separation of state and church, indian secularism is giving benefits to each religions. The community which is most against true secularism in india are the indian muslims, because if the state starts treating every religion equally, muslims have much to lose. They have so many exceptions and privileges which are not only denied to hindus, they are denied to other minority religions as well. Muslims are a state within a state, where they pick and choose which indian law should apply to them, enjoying privileges while also playing perennial victims. Only they should be allowed polygamy, only they should have a special property act which allows them to claim any land, they should be exempt from allowing dalits in their colleges, despite getting central govt funds, and after that they want muslim taste buds to have more rights than the religious rights of hindus. Yes @Stewie india is not secular. It is a quasi islamic state opposing secular laws.

 

[RexRex]

At the fundamental level they are a belief system, and every belief system should be held to the same level of accountability if its believers commit violence motivated by it.

The important word you mention here is 'motivated by'.

A belief system is judged by what it requires its followers to believe. If a Christian (say Anders Breivik) commits an act of violence and that act is a direct contradiction to what his religion teaches him, how on earth do you hold the religion itself accountable here ? You can't. I can't believe your lack of ability to grasp this simple piece of logic.

Now .. take the belief system of Hindutva. Its primary feature is hindu vigilantism i.e taking the law in your own hands. So if a follower of hindutva engages in vigilantism (beating old man on train), he is essentially following the principles of his belief system .. he is not acting in contradiction to his belief system. So you can absolutely blame Hindutva here for the train incident !

See the difference ?

 

[Hitman]

We have already waken up. That's what matters.

I feel bad about those Western countries. They are slowly waking up but the damage has already been done. There's no recovery from this. The disease has already spread.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@Stewie is using "india is not secular" as a get out of jail card for all his failed arguments and beatings. Western secularism is only separation of state and church, indian secularism is giving benefits to each religions. The community which is most against true secularism in india are the indian muslims, because if the state starts treating every religion equally, muslims have much to lose. They have so many exceptions and privileges which are not only denied to hindus, they are denied to other minority religions as well. Muslims are a state within a state, where they pick and choose which indian law should apply to them, enjoying privileges while also playing perennial victims. Only they should be allowed polygamy, only they should have a special property act which allows them to claim any land, they should be exempt from allowing dalits in their colleges, despite getting central govt funds, and after that they want muslim taste buds to have more rights than the religious rights of hindus. Yes @Stewie india is not secular. It is a quasi islamic state opposing secular laws.

They are not the community most against it.

They are the second community.

First community appears to be the Hindu liberals.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The important word you mention here is 'motivated by'.

A belief system is judged by what it requires its followers to believe. If a Christian (say Anders Breivik) commits an act of violence and that act is a direct contradiction to what his religion teaches him, how on earth do you hold the religion itself accountable here ? You can't. I can't believe your lack of ability to grasp this simple piece of logic.

Now .. take the belief system of Hindutva. Its primary feature is hindu vigilantism i.e taking the law in your own hands. So if a follower of hindutva engages in vigilantism (beating old man on train), he is essentially following the principles of his belief system .. he is not acting in contradiction to his belief system. So you can absolutely blame Hindutva here for the train incident !

See the difference ?

LOL. So much somersault to protect when it comes to your own.

Crusades happened under the banner of Christianity, approved by the church, led by christians. Doesn't matter that Jesus Christ asked his followers to turn the other cheek, or the NT also doesn't approve of it (except some debatable verses). Christians cannot disown crusades or the inquisitions, saying that this is not what Jesus taught us. Breivik was a self declared crusader. Christians, despite the teachings of Jesus Christ, have shed blood and killed FOR RELIGION. No amount of gynastics can change that.

Coming to Hindutva, which written word by any hindutva ideologue asks to assault elderly? (not rhetorical, means you should answer). Every belief system has bad apples, and some hindutva followers may be bad. But hindutva only stands for cultural nationalism, inclusiveness, women rights and loyalty to the nation first, irrespective of your religion.

Read all headlines of Mohan Bhagwat, you will think he is some leftist.

PS: Why did you mock my faith that day and came to cause me pain while expressing glee? Would Jesus be proud of it?

 

[CricketCartoons]

They are not the community most against it.

They are the second community.

First community appears to be the Hindu liberals.

There are very few hindu liberals. Maybe communist hindus who are actually fascists, and don't show any liberal quality. They believe in suppression of opinions they don't like. They don't believe in democracy when the outcome is not to their liking.

 

[RexRex]

LOL. So much somersault to protect when it comes to your own.

Crusades happened under the banner of Christianity, approved by the church, led by christians. Doesn't matter that Jesus Christ asked his followers to turn the other cheek, or the NT also doesn't approve of it (except some debatable verses). Christians cannot disown crusades or the inquisitions, saying that this is not what Jesus taught us. Breivik was a self declared crusader. Christians, despite the teachings of Jesus Christ, have shed blood and killed FOR RELIGION. No amount of gynastics can change that.

Crusades were a movement to counter the expansion of Islamic conquests into Christian lands, it was political act .. not one that was demanded by the religion of Christianity. This is not gymnastics .. just pointing out to you that u cannot draw a direct path of logic from the Crusades to the teachings of Christianity i.e what Jesus taught.

Coming to Hindutva, which written word by any hindutva ideologue asks to assault elderly? (not rhetorical, means you should answer). Every belief system has bad apples, and some hindutva followers may be bad. But hindutva only stands for cultural nationalism, inclusiveness, women rights and loyalty to the nation first, irrespective of your religion.

Were the people who brought down the Babri Masjid considered bad apples ? Not at all. They were considered heroes by the Hindutva movement .. because vigilantism is what defines Hindutva. Those depraved people in the train engaged in what their belief system required them to.

 

[RexRex]

PS: Why did you mock my faith that day and came to cause me pain while expressing glee? Would Jesus be proud of it?

When did I mock your faith ? Don't remember.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Crusades were a movement to counter the expansion of Islamic conquests into Christian lands, it was political act .. not one that was demanded by the religion of Christianity. This is not gymnastics .. just pointing out to you that u cannot draw a direct path of logic from the Crusades to the teachings of Christianity i.e what Jesus taught.



Were the people who brought down the Babri Masjid considered bad apples ? Not at all. They were considered heroes by the Hindutva movement .. because vigilantism is what defines Hindutva. Those depraved people in the train engaged in what their belief system required them to.

I am not drawing a path from Jesus to Crusades and Inquisition. I am saying "DESPITE" what Jesus preached, the violence done on the name of Christianity is owned by Christians only. It cannot be wished or washed away by saying Jesus did not teach this. Crusades and Inquisition is totally owned by christian society. Breivik was inspired by the concept of crusades. You cannot show me a single hindutva follower who can be compared to Breivik. But you will deny that crusades had nothing to do with crhstianity, and some people assaulting an elderly has everything to do with hindutva.


The people who brought down the masjid-e-jasmasthan are our heroes. They didn't kill or wound anyone. In fact they got killed by the police. This was revolution. Every revolution breaks law. Even Jesus Christ broke laws of his time.

Show me any primary quote by hindutva ideologue which asks to assault elderly.

PS: Did you make Jesus proud of you when you came to hurt my religious feelings by taunting about beef?

 

[RexRex]

Show me any primary quote by hindutva ideologue which asks to assault elderly.

They don't need to be a specific quote. There are a million scenarios of evil out there for which hindutva ideologues haven't made 'quotes'.

Violence/force/intimidation (instead of using the law) is a intrinsic part of the hindutva movement. The logical extension of that is we have a holy mosque torn down illegaly. Another logical extension is that an old man got beaten for hurting hindu sentiments - again an illegal act.

 

[RexRex]

Did you make Jesus proud of you when you came to hurt my religious feelings by taunting about beef?

Why where you offended ? I was having a jar of siamese pickled beef and enjoyed it so much that I invited you try it out some day. Why did that hurt your feelings ?

 

[CricketCartoons]

They don't need to be a specific quote. There are a million scenarios of evil out there for which hindutva ideologues haven't made 'quotes'.

Violence/force/intimidation (instead of using the law) is a intrinsic part of the hindutva movement. The logical extension of that is we have a holy mosque torn down illegaly. Another logical extension is that an old man got beaten for hurting hindu sentiments - again an illegal act.

Every revolution breaks laws. So stop using this weak excuse, unless it is murder and assault.

So you concede you have no specific quote by hindutva ideologues. Thank you.

Jesus Christ also broke laws of his time. Since you think something is evil because it is illegal, what do you have to say about that?

Every revolution is illegal. The debate should be on its morality or immorality, not on legality. I am used to teaching basics to you now, so don't mind.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why where you offended ? I was having a jar of siamese pickled beef and enjoyed it so much that I invited you try it out some day. Why did that hurt your feelings ?

Did you make Jesus Christ proud by asking a hindu to try out beef?

 

[RexRex]

Every revolution breaks laws. So stop using this weak excuse, unless it is murder and assault.

Why not 'murder and assault' ?

lol .. I like how you arbitrarily sneaked in that qualifier.

If I remember correctly, the king of France had his head chopped by his countrymen with a guillotine; countrymen who were engaged in what is called French revolution (round about the 18th century)

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why not 'murder and assault' ?

lol .. I like how you arbitrarily sneaked in that qualifier.

If I remember correctly, the king of France had his head chopped with a guilotine by his countrymen, who were engaged in what is called French revolution (round about the 18th century)

What is so sneaky about it? You cannot club vandalism and murder together.

Every revolution breaks laws. Jesus Christ was a revolutionary who broke laws, but he did not murder or assault anyone.

Illegality is not the way to judge revolutions. Morality is.

You lack basic knowledge. But I don't mind educating you. If you think illegality makes something wrong, then you think Jesus Christ was wrong. So update your views otherwise you will end up being handcuffed by your own logic.

 

[RexRex]

Did you make Jesus Christ proud by asking a hindu to try out beef?

Why were you offended ? It is not like I tied you to a pole and then forced meat down your throat. It was an invitation to taste the sumptuous texture of vinegar laced angus beef. Mmmm.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why were you offended ? It is not like I tied you to a pole and then forced meat down your throat. It was an invitation to taste the sumptuous texture of vinegar laced angus beef. Mmmm.

Proudly say that you were following teachings of Christ and He would be proud of you.

 

[RexRex]

You lack basic knowledge. But I don't mind educating you. If you think illegality makes something wrong, then you think Jesus Christ was wrong. So update your views otherwise you will end up being handcuffed by your own logic.

Jesus Christ broke the laws yes .. so ? What does that have to do with anything I've said so far ?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Jesus Christ broke the laws yes .. so ? What does that have to do with anything I've said so far ?

Because so far you were bringing illegality to judge Hindutva. So now you see why illegality is not the right yardstick to judge? Or I need to take you for another lesson?

 

[RexRex]

Proudly say that you were following teachings of Christ and He would be proud of you.

I have a bit of a track record on this; I've invited numerous hindu friends of mine to try out beef and they absolutely loved it .. they are beef addicts now and pester me for recipes. Those who didn't want it .. politely declined. They didn't whinge about hurt feelings lol.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I have a bit of a track record on this; I've invited numerous hindu friends of mine to try out beef and they absolutely loved it .. they are beef addicts now and pester me for recipes. Those who didn't want it .. politely declined. They didn't whinge about hurt feelings lol.

So you claiming innocence that you didn't know it can be hurtful to practicing hindus?

 

[RexRex]

Because so far you were bringing illegality to judge Hindutva. So now you see why illegality is not the right yardstick to judge?

Yes it is the right yardstick .. because it is the only yardstick we have as a diverse nation, India is a country of laws. There are milliions of people in India with their own idea of what morality is, not just you ... you can't cater to them all. Hence we have hashed out a proxy compromise which is what we commonly call the law aka the Constitution. I thought you were taught all this stuff in Civics class ? Or did you bunk classes and go to RSS meetings.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes it is the right yardstick .. because it is the only yardstick we have as a diverse nation, India is a country of laws. There are milliions of people in India with their own idea of what morality is, not just you ... you can't cater to them all. Hence we have hashed out a proxy compromise which is what we commonly call the law aka the Constitution. I thought you were taught all this stuff in Civics class ? Or did you bunk classes and go to RSS meetings.

Fine. So Jesus Christ acts were also illegal. Please judge him by the same yardstick.

This is like indulging a kid and watching him get tied up.

 

[RexRex]

So you claiming innocence that you didn't know it can be hurtful to practicing hindus?

You are obviously pretending to be hurt; but if you really are .. I'd strongly urge you to check into a psych ward. It is highly abnormal to be upset about such trivial things .. particularly a good faith effort at inviting you to the heavenly pleasure that is tenderloin beef marinated with dollops of gochujang sauce. Yumm!

 

[RexRex]

Fine. So Jesus Christ acts were also illegal. Please judge him by the same yardstick.

This is like indulging a kid and watching him get tied up.

Yes what he did was illegal by the laws of that time. I never said otherwise. What is your point lol.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes what he did was illegal by the laws of that time. I never said otherwise. What is your point lol.

Demolishing Masjid-e-Janmasthan was also illegal by the laws of the time. No one was killed or assaulted.

Advani is our Bharat Ratna. Supreme Court has approved what we stood for. That it was a place of our temple. We were proved right.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You are obviously pretending to be hurt; but if you really are .. I'd strongly urge you to check into a psych ward. It is highly abnormal to be upset about such trivial things .. particularly a good faith effort at inviting you to the heavenly pleasure that is tenderloin beef marinated with dollops of gochujang sauce. Yumm!

Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
What would he say for those, who KNOW what they are doing. Any guesses?

 

[RexRex]

Demolishing Masjid-e-Janmasthan was also illegal by the laws of the time. No one was killed or assaulted.

Advani is our Bharat Ratna. Supreme Court has approved what we stood for. That it was a place of our temple. We were proved right.

See ya later in the day. I gotta go, work calls

 

[CricketCartoons]

See ya later in the day. I gotta go, work calls

Pro tip: Don't let the person know you are taking a break. Let the other person keep refreshing waiting for a reply.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India should be secular because Muslims are a minority here and minority rights matter.

But if Muslims are in majority, Islamic rules take precedence.

Smart people in the West are slowly waking up to it.

India should be secular because that is what it claims to be. No one has forced India to adopt a secular constitution, but if you claim it, then at least stand by it.

If Muslims are in majority they can make their constitution secular, communist or theocratic, that depends on each individual nation. You are lumping them altogether as if there was no independent nations, only one all encompassing ummah.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

India should be secular because that is what it claims to be. No one has forced India to adopt a secular constitution, but if you claim it, then at least stand by it.

If Muslims are in majority they can make their constitution secular, communist or theocratic, that depends on each individual nation. You are lumping them altogether as if there was no independent nations, only one all encompassing ummah.

You are expecting a lot of nuance from people that refer to Muslims as a disease.

 

[CricketCartoons]

India should be secular because that is what it claims to be. No one has forced India to adopt a secular constitution, but if you claim it, then at least stand by it.

If Muslims are in majority they can make their constitution secular, communist or theocratic, that depends on each individual nation. You are lumping them altogether as if there was no independent nations, only one all encompassing ummah.

India's secularism is not same as western secularism. The montrosity which we call secularism in India, is giving benefits to religions based on how useful it is for election. Since muslims vote en bloc, they have got the most privileges and exemptions. Only section of hindus vote en bloc, otherwise most hindus have other considerations, that is why hindus have not been able to wrest more concessions and excemptions that their numbers warrant. Real minorities like jains, parsis, buddhists have no concession because their numbers are not useful.

Muslim nations cannot have secular constitution, unless it is ruled by a brutal dictator. This is because Islam doesn't have concept of secularism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India's secularism is not same as western secularism. The montrosity which we call secularism in India, is giving benefits to religions based on how useful it is for election. Since muslims vote en bloc, they have got the most privileges and exemptions. Only section of hindus vote en bloc, otherwise most hindus have other considerations, that is why hindus have not been able to wrest more concessions and excemptions that their numbers warrant. Real minorities like jains, parsis, buddhists have no concession because their numbers are not useful.

Muslim nations cannot have secular constitution, unless it is ruled by a brutal dictator. This is because Islam doesn't have concept of secularism.

Seems like Hinduism doesna't have concept of secularism either if it is a western import. Perhaps India should just adopt Islam if they want to do away with secularism and confusion.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You are expecting a lot of nuance from people that refer to Muslims as a disease.

Most people may think @Bhaijaan @cricketjoshila and yours truly can be lumped together, as proponents of hindutva, but I disagree a lot with both of them. This nuance will be missed, and rightly so, by someone watching from a distance where we all look the same.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Seems like Hinduism doesna't have concept of secularism either if it is a western import. Perhaps India should just adopt Islam if they want to do away with secularism and confusion.

Hinduism doesn't have the concept of secularism (separation of church and state), because the hindu equivalent of church was never powerful than the state. They minded their own business and were under the patronage of the state.

The separation of church and state is a uniquely western concept, because the church was stronger that the state, that is why the state wanted separation.

Islam doesnt have secularism, because state and church are the same in Islam.

In Hinduism, the are separate, but separation was not needed because the hindu church was not antagonistic, or superior to the state.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I think it is time to call a spade a spade.

I personally hold the opinion that Hinduism has failed humanity and has woefully underachieved as an ideology. 5000 years in existence, and yet no major influence on humanity other than introducing the concept of 'something out of nothing'. (Neo-Hinduism - look it up).

Monotheistic faiths on the other hand professed intelligent causation, which is far more logical than pulling a rabbit out of a hat from nothing. This is why Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, have each in their own right contributed and shaped humanity within half the timeframe.

I think Hindutva is simply jealous of Islam. Just the Islamic riches throughout history alone has forced Hindutva to rewrite their own history. Hindus just could not compete, then you add the insult to injury, carving India into 3 pieces.

I think the partition hurts Hindutva because their motherland or homeland - whatever you want to call it - was carved by Muslims. Much like Hitler blamed the Jews for carving Germany after WW1 (Treaty of Versailles).

Sadly for the Hindutva mob, the past cannot be changed. Modi's India is mirroring 1930s Germany, blates, and it won't be long before a civil war breaks out in India.

It is true, up until 2014, India was on the ascendancy, but now, it is downhill - socially, morally, politically, and of course, economically - which explains which millions of Modi's so called supporters are desperate to flee 'incredible' India.

The funny thing is, these bailing Hindutvas will happily move to the Arab states, and abide by Muslims law. So maybe Islam is not the problem for Hindutva, but just a simple case of victimhood because even after 5000 years, India remains a mess and the first sign of victimhood is blaming others for your failures.

Abrahamic religions offer nothing but misery. They will not leave you alone until you convert. Brutal wars were fought and millions killed all in the. And of spreading the word of their single God.

It’s funny that they criticize the polytheists and animists all day. But when you show them the mirror, they cannot handle it.

Since you claimed the 5000 yrs of Hinduism existence, what about your favorite religion which is much existed since the first human who according to science existed about 250,000 yrs ago. What has Islam achieved? They built empires over human skulls.

It wasn’t until Industrial Revolution and modern tech that humans saw real progress and improvements in the society. All the progress we made has nothing to do with your favorite make believe power up in the sky.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Seems like Hinduism doesna't have concept of secularism either if it is a western import. Perhaps India should just adopt Islam if they want to do away with secularism and confusion.

All polytheistic religions are inherently secular.
Polytheistic gods don’t get angry and condemn you to hell fires if you pray to some other god and make him or her your favorite.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All polytheistic religions are inherently secular.
Polytheistic gods don’t get angry and condemn you to hell fires if you pray to some other god and make him or her your favorite.

Then why did you and your ideologue Savarkar need to create a separate hindutva identity rejecting many of the beliefs of Hindu scriptures and declaring yourselves atheists?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Then why did you and your ideologue Savarkar need to create a separate hindutva identity rejecting many of the beliefs of Hindu scriptures and declaring yourselves atheists?

Every cult has its drawbacks. You have to address them and fix them with time.
Something doesn’t make sense, chuck it out. Hanging onto age old beliefs that lack common sense is detrimental in the modern times. If science says otherwise, religion must adopt.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India should be secular because that is what it claims to be. No one has forced India to adopt a secular constitution, but if you claim it, then at least stand by it.

If Muslims are in majority they can make their constitution secular, communist or theocratic, that depends on each individual nation. You are lumping them altogether as if there was no independent nations, only one all encompassing ummah.

Pakistan should become secular before pakistanis go about talking secularism with others.

No use talking secularism with people who made an Islamic republic.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Then why did you and your ideologue Savarkar need to create a separate hindutva identity rejecting many of the beliefs of Hindu scriptures and declaring yourselves atheists?

Separate hindutva identity?

Rejecting hindu scriptures?

 

[RexRex]

Pro tip: Don't let the person know you are taking a break. Let the other person keep refreshing waiting for a reply.

Pro tip: You should use the notification feature instead of refreshing. A popup window opens anytime you get quoted or tagged on PP while you are engaged in other work on your laptop.

 

[deltexas]

Every cult has its drawbacks. You have to address them and fix them with time.
Something doesn’t make sense, chuck it out. Hanging onto age old beliefs that lack common sense is detrimental in the modern times. If science says otherwise, religion must adopt.

And thats the difference b/w Islam and the other religions (C, H , B etc ) All other religions reform things with time and agree that they need to be adopted to modern society. Unlike Islam which believes the holy gospel in a book that was written 1000s of years back and that is assumed to be perfect for eternity .

 

[Stewie]

Insulting any religion is a criminal offence in India. What anyone says doesn't change that.

Pakistan is an Islamic republic. Non muslims are second class citizens there. Any Pakistani opinion criticizing secularism in India is just a joke to laugh at.

Show me one post where i have been critical of Islam the religion. My criticism has always been of Muslims.

Muslims have and do claim a number of unreasonable things and thats a fact.

They want laws in a secular country to be as per Sharia. That's one of the examples.

There are number of threads here with news of Muslims occupying public places to offer namaz.

I can go on and on.

You can tell all this nonsense to some westerner and he may believe you, but i have grown up in a state with 30 percent muslim population. I will not be hoodwinked.

I don’t want sharia law in a secular country. How would it be secular if there is sharia law?

Sharia law is only for Muslim majority countries. Anyone can easily call you out on your BS. You are the most anti Muslim poster here. I dare you to post a poll here or anywhere and prove it to me that your claims are true. When it comes to others you act like a girl asking for prof well now it’s time for you to prove your own insipid claims. Give us all a proof or apologize for such rants.

Muslims occupying public places to offer namaz is legal in some places and some places it’s not. I would like you to post threads here where illegal instances have taken place and we can all review and give you that you sorely need right now.


I hope these comments will open the eyes of everyone to your agenda filled nonsense

 

[Stewie]

There you go... now you know why the Hindus resort to violence when Muslims very deliberately insist on killing Cows knowing very well what it means to hindus.


Please spare me the usual nonsense that the rest of the world doesn't consider cows to be Holy.

So now it’s nonsense? Are you saying the rest of the world doesn’t believe that?

 

[Stewie]

India should be secular because Muslims are a minority here and minority rights matter.

But if Muslims are in majority, Islamic rules take precedence.

That’s what democracy is. You can try spread your chump philosophy but if it’s majority Muslims and they want whatever then that’s what goes. If they are in minority and can’t form the government they abide by and respect the majority view (or at least they should)

Or are you saying majority rule of democracy is BS?

 

[Champ_Pal]

I don’t want sharia law in a secular country. How would it be secular if there is sharia law?

Sharia law is only for Muslim majority countries. Anyone can easily call you out on your BS. You are the most anti Muslim poster here. I dare you to post a poll here or anywhere and prove it to me that your claims are true. When it comes to others you act like a girl asking for prof well now it’s time for you to prove your own insipid claims. Give us all a proof or apologize for such rants.

Muslims occupying public places to offer namaz is legal in some places and some places it’s not. I would like you to post threads here where illegal instances have taken place and we can all review and give you that W you sorely need right now.


I hope these comments will open the eyes of everyone to your agenda filled nonsense you have been posting here for years.

You do not represent Entire Ummah. A large chunk of Muslims want Sharia in the lands where they live.

Holy Quran clearly says, obey Allah and obey the Prophet. You cannot obey the Prophet until you follow the rules set by the Prophet. The law that enforces those rules is Sharia. Now don't tell me all the Muslims around the world wanting Sharia are not real Muslims.

Chapter 1: Beliefs About Sharia

According to the survey findings, most Muslims believe sharia is the revealed word of God rather than a body of law developed by men based on the word of

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Champ_Pal]

That’s what democracy is. You can try spread your chump philosophy but if it’s majority Muslims and they want whatever then that’s what goes. If they are in minority and can’t form the government they abide by and respect the majority view (or at least they should)

Or are you saying majority rule of democracy is BS?

So you okay with Muslims(when in majority) replacing democracy using democracy.

 

[uppercut]

So now it’s nonsense? Are you saying the rest of the world doesn’t believe that?

Doesn't matter what the rest of the world believes in. If its holy to YOUR belief/religion thats all that matters.


Here are some examples that you might identify and recognize:

1. Alcohol
2. Polygamy
3. Idol worship
....
....

Get it ?

 

[uppercut]

PS: Why did you mock my faith that day ...

Could you please quote that post ?

 

[big_gamer007]

If you are not here to defend someone else then why do you jump in the debate to rescue others or comment at their behalf.

Coming back on thread topic you yourself are a epitome of anti Muslim bias as you criticize them for being rigid and unwilling for introspection without any proof while you beg other to amend their posts even when they are stating facts backed by stats.

Also you consider Hinduism to be flexible but at the same time don't condemn those guys who equate eating of cow meat to some cardinal crime. Also before lecturing others to read different books read Quran first because if you would have ever, you wouldn't have come with such misleading, ignorant posts about Muslims and Islam

I wrote in one of the other threads, I’ll reiterate for you.

Any humans opinion on any individual/group of individuals/community etc are decided by their experiences with the said people.

You have been gaslighting Indians for better part of a year now, starting random agenda based threads everyday where the same posters mostly from Britain pop up and post derogatory posts against Indians.
You and your ilk have already changed atleast 5 posters from PP itself who were quite liberal and accommodating towards Muslims to now questioning themselves and their leniency.

I’ll bet you will never even think this deep about your own actions and introspect what you have been doing. You will just blame others or delete this post.
Whatever you choose to do, still remember you are one of the reasons why Muslims are getting a bad reputation around the world.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I wrote in one of the other threads, I’ll reiterate for you.

Any humans opinion on any individual/group of individuals/community etc are decided by their experiences with the said people.

You have been gaslighting Indians for better part of a year now, starting random agenda based threads everyday where the same posters mostly from Britain pop up and post derogatory posts against Indians.
You and your ilk have already changed atleast 5 posters from PP itself who were quite liberal and accommodating towards Muslims to now questioning themselves and their leniency.

I’ll bet you will never even think this deep about your own actions and introspect what you have been doing. You will just blame others or delete this post.
Whatever you choose to do, still remember you are one of the reasons why Muslims are getting a bad reputation around the world.

According to your thesis the BJP government and the people slapping old men on trains must be on PP. Which posters are these?