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Virat Kohli and co. have played better overseas than Indian teams of last 15-20 years: Ravi Shastri

Gabbar Singh

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The guy is deluded.


"Kohli and Co have played better overseas than Indian teams of last 15-20 years: Shastri

India lost by 62 runs in the fourth Test at Southampton to go 1-3 down in the five-match series.

India have lost the Test series in England but coach Ravi Shastri insists that the current lot is travelling better than the teams of the last 15-20 years.

India lost by 62 runs in the fourth Test at Southampton to go 1-3 down in the five-match series.

“As hard as our guys tried, England were one-up on us there. Nothing to take away (from them), the endeavour of this team is to travel well, compete and win. If you look at the last three years, we have won nine matches overseas and three series (against West Indies and twice in Sri Lanka),” said Shastri on Wednesday.

“I can’t see any other Indian team in the last 15-20 years that has had the same run in such a short time, and you have had some great players playing in those series. So the promise is there, and it’s just about getting tougher mentally.

“You have got to hurt when you lose matches because that’s when you look within and come out with the right kind of answers to combat such situations and get past the finishing line. One day you will if you believe,” said Shastri.

The head coach underlined the need to grow mentally tougher in order to cross the finishing line and win Test series in overseas conditions, something Virat Kohli had stressed on after the loss at Southampton.

“I think you have got to get tough mentally. We have run teams close overseas and we have competed. But now it’s not about competing (any longer). We have to win games from here onwards. Now the endeavour is to understand where you made the mistakes, take it head on and try to correct it.

“The scoreline says 3-1, which means India, have lost the series. What the scoreline doesn’t say that India could have been 3-1 or it could have been 2-2, and my teams knows it. They would have been hurt and rightly so after the last game. But this is a team that will not throw in the towel,” he said ahead of the fifth and final Test starting here on Friday.

Talking about what the batsmen can do to improve and cross the finish line, he said, I think shot selection left a lot to be desired. We blew away a very good position straight away after tea on day two (in Southampton). That’s an area where you can tighten, and be aware of what the team needs. Being aware of the match situation will be a big help. I think that was crucial more than anything else.

“I thought at 180-4, there was a definite chance of a 75-80-run lead, and that would have been crucial. So that hurts. Edgbaston could have gone either way because we had our share of luck as well. At one time England were in the driver’s seat; we managed to come back. But there was a stage where you could have been really ahead of the game, after the job the bowlers did on day one.

Shastri said that Moeen Ali was the key difference between the two sides, and he bowled better than R Ashwin, hitting the rough patches more than the Indian off-spinner. While it looks increasingly likely that Ashwin will miss out on the fifth Test, the coach said that the spinner was fully fit when picked in the fourth Test and that Ali simply bowled better.

“Ashwin was fit. You have to give credit to Moeen Ali there on the last day. To be honest, he bowled magnificently. I think it’s straightforward (difference between them) very simple, very obvious, it was there for everyone to see. Moeen hit those patches more than Ashwin, as simple as that, said Shastri.

He also complimented Cheteshwar Pujara for his first innings’ hundred and said that while conditions have been tough for batsmen, they need to find a way to stay in the middle.

“You obviously need the top order to give you a start but if you look at both sides its not been easy for the top order. The bowling has been good, really good, and it’s been a challenge and it is how you overcome that challenge.

“In the prevailing situation, the kind of pitches we’re playing on, the amount of movement there is with the Dukes ball - it’s challenging for the batsmen. It’s not just us; even batsmen from the other side have struggled. When you are set, you need to capitalize.”

Talking about Pujara’s knock, he said: “Pujara’s was an absolutely khadoos (stubborn/strict) innings.”

When asked about Hardik Pandya’s ability to bat number six, and the need for flexibility in bowling attack, the coach replied, When you’re young, you’ve got to be thrown into the deep end. You’ve got to persevere and see, if it works or it doesn’t work. If it doesn’t work, there’ll be another option.
“But you have to give that opportunity when you think there is that talent there. And stick with that. You always have to be flexible. You can’t be rigid in your thinking. You’ve got to be flexible, you’ve got to see the conditions, see what conditions will be like day after tomorrow. And then take the call (on playing four bowlers).

India will be playing for pride in the fifth Test, which will also be Alastair Cook’s final Test. Shastri paid a rich tribute to the former England skipper who debuted against India at Nagpur in 2006.

“I saw his first Test match, saw him getting a hundred in Nagpur. He’s been one of England’s greatest cricketers - no question. He always came across a mentally tough bloke, real tough cookie. As far as I am concerned, there were times in his career when he batted where he did look the master chef.

“He might not go down as one of the best-looking, fluent batsmen, but my word he was effective. Playing in these conditions for that length of time, where the ball does move and it’s a challenge for an opening batsman – I think he’s been simply outstanding. Good luck to him (for the future), Shastri signed off.

https://scroll.in/field/893314/kohl...than-indian-teams-of-last-15-20-years-shastri
 
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The guy is deluded.


"Kohli and Co have played better overseas than Indian teams of last 15-20 years: Shastri

https://scroll.in/field/893314/kohl...than-indian-teams-of-last-15-20-years-shastri

What is he smoking??

Why just India, say they've played better overseas than any other teams of last 50-60 years.

This is utter Bullshut.



Since Shastri is taking about overseas matches and not just SENA matches he is actually right.

- By 2015, India had not beaten SL in SL in 28 years. Since then India has beaten them twice in two chances.

- India's 2-0 win in WI in 2016 is also the first time India has won 2 matches in a test series in WI

- Add to that India's only 3rd ever win in SA and only 7th win in Eng, showing how few Indian sides have won in these countries



It's not "delusional" at all for Shashtri to say that because statistically, it is true. Never before has India won 9 away tests within a 4-year time frame.

Of course, winning at least one series in SENA in this season is a must for this team to be termed as the best travellers like Shastri wants.
 
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The guy is deluded.


"Kohli and Co have played better overseas than Indian teams of last 15-20 years: Shastri

https://scroll.in/field/893314/kohl...than-indian-teams-of-last-15-20-years-shastri

I think the bigger share of blame should go to journalists. They never cross question when someone spouting such non-sense. Shastri said, we have won 9 tests overseas in last 3 years and the journalist kept quiet. He should have asked him how many in SENA sir? Is Srilanka overseas for Shastri? Lol I wish Vikrant Gupta was present there. Remember that SA journalist who argued with Kohli and gave him the fact check? Though he was arguing against our skipper...I love it.
 
I think the bigger share of blame should go to journalists. They never cross question when someone spouting such non-sense. Shastri said, we have won 9 tests overseas in last 3 years and the journalist kept quiet. He should have asked him how many in SENA sir? Is Srilanka overseas for Shastri? Lol I wish Vikrant Gupta was present there. Remember that SA journalist who argued with Kohli and gave him the fact check? Though he was arguing against our skipper...I love it.

He said we've won 3 overseas series and, pointed out 2 series wins against SL and 1 against WI.

Nothing against SL & WI but, how can a National coach even count these wins, just to show his impact?

I will take 1 match win against SA over these 3 series wins.
 
To be honest, he is kind of right

IN this england tour, India was close to winning the first and 4th test. They gave a good performance, and thye could culd had won the series.

Virat's team might be losing overseas, but it is giving close fights.
 
He said we've won 3 overseas series and, pointed out 2 series wins against SL and 1 against WI.

Nothing against SL & WI but, how can a National coach even count these wins, just to show his impact?

I will take 1 match win against SA over these 3 series wins.

Definitely, a series win in SENA is much better. But people are seriously underestimating SL as a test team at home.

Since 2015, SL has played 19 matches at home. 6 of them have been against India. But in the other 13 matches, they have won 10 and lost 3. That's a W/L ratio of 3.33. Which is the joint 4th best W/L ratio at home among all countries. It's better than England's (1.88) and Pak's (1.33) home record by some distance.

In the last 3 years, SL has had home series wins against Eng, SA, Aus and away wins against Pak and Ban. India is the only team they have lost to at home.



On this forum people love to downplay SL because that conveniently helps in underplaying India's performance in tests.
 
He said we've won 3 overseas series and, pointed out 2 series wins against SL and 1 against WI.

Nothing against SL & WI but, how can a National coach even count these wins, just to show his impact?

I will take 1 match win against SA over these 3 series wins.


Definitely, a series win in SENA is much better. But people are seriously underestimating SL as a test team at home.

Since 2015, SL has played 19 matches at home. 6 of them have been against India. But in the other 13 matches, they have won 10 and lost 3. That's a W/L ratio of 3.33. Which is the joint 4th best W/L ratio at home among all countries. It's better than England's (1.88) and Pak's (1.33) home record by some distance.

In the last 3 years, SL has had home series wins against Eng, SA, Aus and away wins against Pak and Ban. India is the only team they have lost to at home.



On this forum people love to downplay SL because that conveniently helps in underplaying India's performance in tests. But the fact is, India is the only team in the world that beating SL both home and away.
 
There is a reason for his nickname in some circles. No wonder he said this.
 
India away from 2003-2011:-

2003 England:- Drawn
2003 Australia:- Drawn
2004 Pakistan:- Won
2006 West Indies:- Won
2007 England:- Won
2008 New Zealand:- Won
2010 South Africa:- Drawn
2011 West Indies:- Won
 
He is right. The previous 3 tours have been total disasters. We were beaten black and blue in those Tests.

At least this time, we were demolished only once in 4 Tests. We competed well in 2 Tests that we lost.

The match we won, we played very very well.

Overall, the dummy was right for once.
 
They are competing well but this statement is OTT. India won a test series in England in 2007, this team could lose 4-1.
 
They are competing well but this statement is OTT. India won a test series in England in 2007, this team could lose 4-1.

India's best touring years were perhaps from 2003-07. In those 5 years, India won 2-1 in Pak, drew 1-1 in Aus, won 1-0 in WI, won their first match in SA and won 1-0 in Eng. Overall, that was still only 6 wins though.
 
India away from 2003-2011:-

2003 England:- Drawn
2003 Australia:- Drawn
2004 Pakistan:- Won
2006 West Indies:- Won
2007 England:- Won
2008 New Zealand:- Won
2010 South Africa:- Drawn
2011 West Indies:- Won

Someone pls send this post to Mr cheerleader and give him a slap on behalf of me. He badly needs get up from sleep.
 
India away from 2003-2011:-

2003 England:- Drawn
2003 Australia:- Drawn
2004 Pakistan:- Won
2006 West Indies:- Won
2007 England:- Won
2009 New Zealand:- Won
2010 South Africa:- Drawn
2011 West Indies:- Won

Someone pls send this post to Mr cheerleader and give him a slap on behalf of me. He badly needs get up from sleep.



All those matches were not played by "one team".

That list spans across 4 different Indian captains. No single captain has won more than 2 series outside Asia.

Kohli has already won 3.
 
Nah, Team with Zaheer, Shewag, SRT etc was better till 2011.
 
Has there ever been a bigger boot-licker in a coaching role? I mean the guy has no shame whatsoever.,
 
All those matches were not played by "one team".

That list spans across 4 different Indian captains. No single captain has won more than 2 series outside Asia.

Kohli has already won 3.

Between 2007-2011:-

Series win in England
Series win in New Zealand
Series win in West Indies
Series drawn in SA

I will take this over a scenario where a team has defeated SL 2 times and WI once, when one of them is minnow level while other is a mid to low tier team. From an indian perspective,a series win in those countries or even a series drawn in SA vs a strong SA is much better than those series win in SL.
 
Myth.

Wasn't he paying attention while commentating during the 2000s?

Can this team go toe to toe with Australia down under, and beat Pakistan in Pakistan a few short months later?
 
To be honest, he is kind of right

IN this england tour, India was close to winning the first and 4th test. They gave a good performance, and thye could culd had won the series.

Virat's team might be losing overseas, but it is giving close fights.

From 2000 to 2011 we won and drew a series each in england, won in NZ, drew series in aus and SA.
 
From 2000 to 2011 we won and drew a series each in england, won in NZ, drew series in aus and SA.

That's 11 years, 4 different captains and dozens of different players.

In the last 3.5 years India has won 9 away matches.

The best any Indian team did in a 5 year cycle was from 2003-07 where they won 6 away games.
 
Between 2007-2011:-

Series win in England
Series win in New Zealand
Series win in West Indies
Series drawn in SA

I will take this over a scenario where a team has defeated SL 2 times and WI once, when one of them is minnow level while other is a mid to low tier team. From an indian perspective,a series win in those countries or even a series drawn in SA vs a strong SA is much better than those series win in SL.

England series was won under Dravid. Rest was won under Dhoni. You can't club two captain's record together and then compare it to one captain's record.

If you look at captain's with away series wins, no Indian captain had more than 2. Kohli already has 3.

And before you downlplay Kohli's record by talking about SL & WI, keep in mind that every captain had tours to SL & WI in their tenure.
 
In bowling yes - as these are the greatest bowlers India has produced, which was expected sooner or later when their pace attack surpassed Pakistan's in the 2015 WC but in batting no their players other than Kohli don't adapt to conditions and neither of them play spin anywhere near as well as those ATGs who played in the last generation.
 
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[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION] can u list where kohli won 3 test series outside asia.is
 
He said we've won 3 overseas series and, pointed out 2 series wins against SL and 1 against WI.

Nothing against SL & WI but, how can a National coach even count these wins, just to show his impact?

Probably because India couldn't win a test series in SL in 22 years and then Kohli's team won there twice in two attempts.

So why are you reluctant to count the wins in SL?
 
Oh, more of this please Shastri. We are all for Shastri to stay as Indian coach forever. Best coach. Lucky indian fans. :ronaldo
 
Probably because India couldn't win a test series in SL in 22 years and then Kohli's team won there twice in two attempts.

So why are you reluctant to count the wins in SL?

I have high expectations from my team and, hence I don't count these silly wins.

This SL and WI teams are not the same anymore, use some logic than just stats.
 
I have high expectations from my team and, hence I don't count these silly wins.

This SL and WI teams are not the same anymore, use some logic than just stats.

Okay I will use logic.

In the last 7 years, SL has lost only 3 test series at home. 2 of them came against India. They have hosted every test nation (except IRE & AFG) in this period.

If SL is no longer the same team anymore then why is no-one winning in SL?

Since 2015, SL has played 19 tests at home and lost 8.
5 of those losses came against India. If you take out the 2 Indian tours SL's home record stands at

M - 13 W - 10 L - 3

That's a W/L ratio of 3.33. Which is the joint 4th highest W/L ratio at home since 2015.

In comparison, England's W/L ratio at home is 1.88. Pakistan's is 1.33.

You may think SL is a weak team because you're seeing India beat team all the time.

But the fact of the matter is that currently India is the only team in the world that has a series win over SL both home and away.
 
Okay I will use logic.

In the last 7 years, SL has lost only 3 test series at home. 2 of them came against India. They have hosted every test nation (except IRE & AFG) in this period.

If SL is no longer the same team anymore then why is no-one winning in SL?

Since 2015, SL has played 19 tests at home and lost 8.
5 of those losses came against India. If you take out the 2 Indian tours SL's home record stands at

M - 13 W - 10 L - 3

That's a W/L ratio of 3.33. Which is the joint 4th highest W/L ratio at home since 2015.

In comparison, England's W/L ratio at home is 1.88. Pakistan's is 1.33.

You may think SL is a weak team because you're seeing India beat team all the time.

But the fact of the matter is that currently India is the only team in the world that has a series win over SL both home and away.

Again you are using stats, wow.

Out of those 13 games which you've pointed out (without India), they've played Aus, Sa, Zim, Bangladesh and Pak.

Aus and Sl are surrenders when it comes to spin and, the least said about Zim and Ban the better.

As soon as they faced decent players of spin(Pak of Misbah era), they lost 2 out of 3.

And what's the use of pointing out Pak, they're also not a big team.

For me away wins count only when it comes to SENA and, unfortunately we couldn't win a series.

As I said earlier, 2 wins(1 each in SA and Eng) are more for me than series wins in WI and SL.
 
Okay I will use logic.

In the last 7 years, SL has lost only 3 test series at home. 2 of them came against India. They have hosted every test nation (except IRE & AFG) in this period.

If SL is no longer the same team anymore then why is no-one winning in SL?

Since 2015, SL has played 19 tests at home and lost 8.
5 of those losses came against India. If you take out the 2 Indian tours SL's home record stands at

M - 13 W - 10 L - 3

That's a W/L ratio of 3.33. Which is the joint 4th highest W/L ratio at home since 2015.

In comparison, England's W/L ratio at home is 1.88. Pakistan's is 1.33.

You may think SL is a weak team because you're seeing India beat team all the time.

But the fact of the matter is that currently India is the only team in the world that has a series win over SL both home and away.

Unfortunately rest of the world and PP does not think it as a challenge to beat India at home, but only they can mock at the way India fails overseas because they take overseas tours as challenge and play a long tour of 3 to 5 tests + 3 to 5 ODIs + some T20s continuously, in contrast so-called SENA countries play short tours - sometimes Tests & ODIs separately with gaps! Probably we should give lenience to them because they can't play under the sun for long! If they are strong teams why can't they do that? OR probably playing in SC is an inferior cricket & should be abandoned is it? Just because India dominates there perhaps! (But anyhow Pakistanis think by default that they would have conquered India in India even today in their fantasy!)

No matter what kind of stupidity Kohli, Shastri, & Indian team display, (in terms of selection, preparation, etc) but we should at least appreciate their courage & they are at least competitive & they do not seem to give any kind of excuses (tosses, umpiring, tough-conditions, anything!) I still remember how the so-called dominant 00s Aussies used to cry at Indian test pitches & search for all sorts of excuses!
 
Again you are using stats, wow.

Out of those 13 games which you've pointed out (without India), they've played Aus, Sa, Zim, Bangladesh and Pak.

Aus and Sl are surrenders when it comes to spin and, the least said about Zim and Ban the better.

As soon as they faced decent players of spin(Pak of Misbah era), they lost 2 out of 3.

And what's the use of pointing out Pak, they're also not a big team.

For me away wins count only when it comes to SENA and, unfortunately we couldn't win a series.

As I said earlier, 2 wins(1 each in SA and Eng) are more for me than series wins in WI and SL.

Keep it cool... the SENA teams don't seem to worry that much about winning in India (or even in Sri Lanka), but at least we (including you & me) have had that wish to win in those countries with desperation & we are disheartened. That is enough and let's not be totally depressed!
 
Keep it cool... the SENA teams don't seem to worry that much about winning in India (or even in Sri Lanka), but at least we (including you & me) have had that wish to win in those countries with desperation & we are disheartened. That is enough and let's not be totally depressed!

Yeah, we can have different expectations from our teams. You can be satisfied by winning in WI and SL and I may be satisfied by winning only in SENA. That's why I didn't quote anyone who was happy with these three series wins(2 SL, 1 WI) but, it was Mr [MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION] who quoted me that these series wins are a great achievement. Obviously, I can't change my expectations as per his.
 
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Again you are using stats, wow.

Out of those 13 games which you've pointed out (without India), they've played Aus, Sa, Zim, Bangladesh and Pak.

Aus and SA are surrenders when it comes to spin and, the least said about Zim and Ban the better.

As soon as they faced decent players of spin(Pak of Misbah era), they lost 2 out of 3.

And what's the use of pointing out Pak, they're also not a big team.

For me away wins count only when it comes to SENA and, unfortunately we couldn't win a series.

As I said earlier, 2 wins(1 each in SA and Eng) are more for me than series wins in WI and SL.

So you're going to excuse AUS & SA's performance in foreign conditions but hold India fully accountable for their performance in foreign countries.

And you were asking me to be logical. What kind of logic is that?

Get out of your colonial hangover, dude. SENA aren't the only countries where cricket is played.
 
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So you're going to excuse AUS & SA's performance in foreign conditions but hold India fully accountable for their performance in foreign countries.

And you were asking me to be logical. What kind of logic is that?

Get out of your colonial hangover, dude. SENA aren't the only countries where cricket is played.

That too when the whole world (including our rivals :) ) slowly & gradually want to take part in IPL & replicate the same league! You won't get this kind of money or support for cricket anywhere in the world. So all countries should first take it a pride to win in India just like how we Indians take pride to win cricket in the creator of cricket & other SENA Countries!

Just imagine what happens if India suddenly stops or avoids touring to these SENA countries to play TEST cricket (and getting humiliated as per PP) & concentrates fully in developing multiple IPLs round the year :))
 
So you're going to excuse AUS & SA's performance in foreign conditions but hold India fully accountable for their performance in foreign countries.

And you were asking me to be logical. What kind of logic is that?

Get out of your colonial hangover, dude. SENA aren't the only countries where cricket is played.

First, you are most welcome to count the series wins against WI, SL, ZIM, BERMUDA, etc. Neither did I quote and stopped you when you were celebrating them.

Second, these are "my" expectations from "my" team and, it is you who quoted me and are forcing me to agree with you and celebrate these wins which I won't.

Third, I don't care how AUS, SA, ENG, PAK performs, for me performance of my team matters.
 
First, you are most welcome to count the series wins against WI, SL, ZIM, BERMUDA, etc. Neither did I quote and stopped you when you were celebrating them.

Second, these are "my" expectations from "my" team and, it is you who quoted me and are forcing me to agree with you and celebrate these wins which I won't.

Third, I don't care how AUS, SA, ENG, PAK performs, for me performance of my team matters.

Fair enough. You can have your own expectations.

But you said I'm not being logical with my assessment. But in reality you're not being logical. You're patriotic and obviously only want the best for your team. And I respect that. But logical, you are not.
 
Fair enough. You can have your own expectations.

But you said I'm not being logical with my assessment. But in reality you're not being logical. You're patriotic and obviously only want the best for your team. And I respect that. But logical, you are not.

Its just like you asking me to accept the wins of SL and WI and, it doesn't look logical to "me" to count wins against SL and WI(of present).
 
Yeah, we can have different expectations from our teams. You can be satisfied by winning in WI and SL and I may be satisfied by winning only in SENA. That's why I didn't quote anyone who was happy with these three series wins(2 SL, 1 WI) but, it was Mr [MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION] who quoted me that these series wins are a great achievement. Obviously, I can't change my expectations as per his.

Ask any top cricket experts (even from SENA countries), they will tell it is difficult to adjust from lower bounce to higher bounce and its relatively easier to acclimatize from higher bounce to lower bounce (similarly pace - fast to slow & swing to spin). Yet India have performed well recently in SENA countries to how they have performed in India. I agree the case was reverse in the past & Indians were poor generally (still had some good moments in between) Indians have always taken it as a pride to do well in those countries (most fans show anger, frustration & pain), while those countries consider it as just another boring/irrelevant tour perhaps! (apart from the revenue interest)
 
Playing better should at least mean a drawn series otherwise its minor details and means nothing that is for now. Once the league system comes into play then ofcourse every win will be important.
 
First, you are most welcome to count the series wins against WI, SL, ZIM, BERMUDA, etc. Neither did I quote and stopped you when you were celebrating them.

Second, these are "my" expectations from "my" team and, it is you who quoted me and are forcing me to agree with you and celebrate these wins which I won't.

Third, I don't care how AUS, SA, ENG, PAK performs, for me performance of my team matters.

You can still feel proud for the way they compete... Though they take stupid decisions, but they don't give silly excuses & do blame games! They at least put everything on themselves (they think they can do well even without preparations & practice games! I know they are not right about themselves, but at least they don't blame like others about pitches, umpiring, etc! They take everything as a challenge and you feel proud for that!)
 
Its just like you asking me to accept the wins of SL and WI and, it doesn't look logical to "me" to count wins against SL and WI(of present).

There is no "me" in logic, sir. It's not a subjective matter. It's scientific. What is logical for one is logical for all.

Your parameters are different for different teams. By definition, you are not being logical.

But I can understand your stance on this issue.
 
You can still feel proud for the way they compete... Though they take stupid decisions, but they don't give silly excuses & do blame games! They at least put everything on themselves (they think they can do well even without preparations & practice games! I know they are not right about themselves, but at least they don't blame like others about pitches, umpiring, etc! They take everything as a challenge and you feel proud for that!)

Your comments are suggesting you dont rate India's chances away from home at all and was happy with them just competing and winning odd tests here and there. As it stand they won the dead rubber in SA and a single test in England in 5 tests matches series.

If that's true then fair enough, at least you were not blinded by India's long home season where they bullied teams by preparing rank turners mostly.
 
There is no "me" in logic, sir. It's not a subjective matter. It's scientific. What is logical for one is logical for all.

Your parameters are different for different teams. By definition, you are not being logical.

But I can understand your stance on this issue.

You were crying about stats and, it's not logical to use stats. If not, Imam should already be the best player for averaging 60+, as the other thread suggests. And, Dhoni should be the first guy on the team sheet as he averages 50+ and also keeps.

Even for logic, there are certain criterias to be followed and, me being a Data Scientist myself I am well aware what logic is, what stats are and when logic comes into picture.
 
You were crying about stats and, it's not logical to use stats. If not, Imam should already be the best player for averaging 60+, as the other thread suggests. And, Dhoni should be the first guy on the team sheet as he averages 50+ and also keeps.

Even for logic, there are certain criterias to be followed and, me being a Data Scientist myself I am well aware what logic is, what stats are and when logic comes into picture.

I didn't just give you stats I gave you context for those stats and showed you how India is the only team that is beating SL. You are just ignoring it. Nothing I can do about it.

I work in HR Analytics. It's been my profession for the last 6 years. Trust me when I say that I don't take numbers lightly.
 
I didn't just give you stats I gave you context for those stats and showed you how India is the only team that is beating SL.

Please, it would do a world of good, if you could go and check it back. I said use "logic" to the post, when u said India didn't win a series in SL in 22 years. My statement was for comparing those SL teams is illogical (as they're not same anymore).

You dont even remember to which post I quoted and, u are arguing, sad.
 
England series was won under Dravid. Rest was won under Dhoni. You can't club two captain's record together and then compare it to one captain's record.

If you look at captain's with away series wins, no Indian captain had more than 2. Kohli already has 3.

And before you downlplay Kohli's record by talking about SL & WI, keep in mind that every captain had tours to SL & WI in their tenure.

Kohli, as a captain is quite mediocre. He should have won a lot more. SL and WI are 7th and 8th best team in the world, no matter whatever you say.
 
Kohli, as a captain is quite mediocre. He should have won a lot more. SL and WI are 7th and 8th best team in the world, no matter whatever you say.


No use of arguing, bro. U can check my conversation with him, he's happy by winning against SL and WI.
 
Please, it would do a world of good, if you could go and check it back. I said use "logic" to the post, when u said India didn't win a series in SL in 22 years. My statement was for comparing those SL teams is illogical (as they're not same anymore).

You dont even remember to which post I quoted and, u are arguing, sad.

The non-Asian teams used to win in Sri Lanka in the same 22 years (and losing now), guess it is a too complicated perspective logic now!!!
 
The non-Asian teams used to win in Sri Lanka in the same 22 years (and losing now), guess it is a too complicated perspective logic now!!!

Because they were better players of spin, then. Now even Pak struggle to play spin, SL win in UAE, the best example.
 
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I'm sorry, the_outsider, but that's ridiculous.

This is why I say so many Indian fans here underrate their past teams. Sri Lanka with Murali, Jayawardene, Sangakarra at their primes is one thing, this current Lankan team is back to minnow status. I know we lost 2-0 to them, but that's the point, it was humiliating that we lost to them.

And when you see how much we got the team composition wrong, you realise how bad Lanka are that we almost did win the last game.

Windies are nothing, Misbah's the first Pakistan captain to beat them in Windies. Who in the world is going to give anyone credit for that?

Meanwhile early Dhoni, and Ganguly/Dravid's teams have won big series away.

I wonder if [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] will agree that the 2003 draw in Australia is the biggest result for an Indian team since 2000. I know they won away in England in that time, but that 2003 series draw was massive. Wasn't it Agarkar who sparked that one?
 
Please, it would do a world of good, if you could go and check it back. I said use "logic" to the post, when u said India didn't win a series in SL in 22 years. My statement was for comparing those SL teams is illogical (as they're not same anymore).

You dont even remember to which post I quoted and, u are arguing, sad.

And I told you that even since 2015 India is the only team to have won in SL.

Is this becoming too difficult for you to follow? Do you need me to dumb it down for you?
 
Kohli, as a captain is quite mediocre. He should have won a lot more. SL and WI are 7th and 8th best team in the world, no matter whatever you say.

Kohli isn't a very good captain I agree. But he has 9 away wins. That's a fact.

The most by any other captain is 5. That's a pretty big difference.

And SL is #6 btw. In fact currently they have the exact same rating point as Eng.

And when India toured SL in 2015, SLNwas ranked #4.
 
Because they were better players of spin, then. Now even Pak struggle to play spin, SL win in UAE, the best example.

So? If other teams are struggling to play spin it's their problem.

Just like India's problem with the moving ball is it's own problem.

Why do you constantly have different criteria for different teams?
 
And I told you that even since 2015 India is the only team to have won in SL.

Is this becoming too difficult for you to follow? Do you need me to dumb it down for you?

Answer my question about the logic thing which u blamed on me.

I think u are confusing two things or, you don't wanna understand. About India winning I said I've already said I don't care what other teams does, I want my team to win in SENA
 
Your comments are suggesting you dont rate India's chances away from home at all and was happy with them just competing and winning odd tests here and there. As it stand they won the dead rubber in SA and a single test in England in 5 tests matches series.

If that's true then fair enough, at least you were not blinded by India's long home season where they bullied teams by preparing rank turners mostly.

No I am not happy at all, I am disheartened like any other! If Kohli's captaincy was better, and if we had a more potent coach, then these two series would have been lot closer (it already is!) Besides I also admit that there are some issues with the team composition as well. Especially the openers... When Vijay was aging out, we should have groomed another opener in the meantime when Rahul himself is yet to cement his place in the side! (Instead they thought Dhawan will do that job!) Rahul should never have played in middle order for LOIs... He should have fought for the opening spot with Dhawan/Rohit. There is a different demand in middle order (should try to start scoring against the older ball by at least pushing for singles/twos) He lost whatever defense he had against new ball! Also they didn't even think of the need of 6th batsman in tests, and considered Pandya as the default choice for all conditions (at least not even a spin bowling alrounder who is primarily a batsman!) They didn't try to work out the weaknesses of their 2 main test batsmen (Rahane against spin & Pujara against pace which they suffered for quite a while now! Even people like Dravid went through such tough phases in the past and they rectified it very soon!) Didn't groom a proper wicket keeper batsman for Tests. All these are the jobs of a coach who should work on these major issues besides minor issues which arrive from day to day (like how to devise a strategy against Curran the budding star from England)! This coach is just on a holiday getting paid only for speaking with a rough tone & doing the so-called motivation!
 
Because they were better players of spin, then. Now even Pak struggle to play spin, SL win in UAE, the best example.

So shall we say that Indians are currently the best team in spinning conditions? Is that any kind of quality which we can feel proud of? Or is it an inferior skill? (Actually we lost the last game to a spinner probably on a spinning condition! So we are good in nothing! We also keep getting reminded about that odd loss against O'keefe but everyone have forgotten that odd loss of South Africa against Sreeshanth!)
 
No I am not happy at all, I am disheartened like any other! If Kohli's captaincy was better, and if we had a more potent coach, then these two series would have been lot closer (it already is!) Besides I also admit that there are some issues with the team composition as well. Especially the openers... When Vijay was aging out, we should have groomed another opener in the meantime when Rahul himself is yet to cement his place in the side! (Instead they thought Dhawan will do that job!) Rahul should never have played in middle order for LOIs... He should have fought for the opening spot with Dhawan/Rohit. There is a different demand in middle order (should try to start scoring against the older ball by at least pushing for singles/twos) He lost whatever defense he had against new ball! Also they didn't even think of the need of 6th batsman in tests, and considered Pandya as the default choice for all conditions (at least not even a spin bowling alrounder who is primarily a batsman!) They didn't try to work out the weaknesses of their 2 main test batsmen (Rahane against spin & Pujara against pace which they suffered for quite a while now! Even people like Dravid went through such tough phases in the past and they rectified it very soon!) Didn't groom a proper wicket keeper batsman for Tests. All these are the jobs of a coach who should work on these major issues besides minor issues which arrive from day to day (like how to devise a strategy against Curran the budding star from England)! This coach is just on a holiday getting paid only for speaking with a rough tone & doing the so-called motivation!

All the issues you mentioned are valid but let me tell you this current overseas cycle are Indias best chance to win with current set of players (Only Australian series left) because when the new cycle come around they will be too old and wont be at their peak.
 
No use of arguing, bro. U can check my conversation with him, he's happy by winning against SL and WI.

I never said I am "happy" with winning only in SL. But unlike you I am not dismissing those wins as "nothing" either.
 
Because they were better players of spin, then. Now even Pak struggle to play spin, SL win in UAE, the best example.

Who told you that Pakistan play spinners poorly? If India plays against them in India or UAE, they will whitewash India! So Srilanka beat Australia + SA + Pakistan, then get beaten by India does not imply that India is best in spinning conditions! Pak will always beat us in PP Fantasy League!
 
Answer my question about the logic thing which u blamed on me.

I think u are confusing two things or, you don't wanna understand. About India winning I said I've already said I don't care what other teams does, I want my team to win in SENA

And I already told you that I totally respect your opinion about winning in SENA. And I obviously agree with you that winning in SENA is a much bigger deal.

Where I am disagreeing with you is that you are simply brushing off wins against SL as nothing. I have already given you all the stats showing that India is the only team that's winning in SL. I don't know in how many more ways I can make you understand that.
 
All the issues you mentioned are valid but let me tell you this current overseas cycle are Indias best chance to win with current set of players (Only Australian series left) because when the new cycle come around they will be too old and wont be at their peak.

Nothing can be done about it! We should hope for the best! Even Sachin had to wait till his last leg to see success, I mean team success (company of Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly in tests... Dhoni, Yuvaraj, Gambhir in ODIs) Perhaps same thing might happen with Kohli when he gets new set up guys in the future & also gets a brighter captain who is better than Dhoni (the ghost captain) & himself!
 
So shall we say that Indians are currently the best team in spinning conditions? Is that any kind of quality which we can feel proud of? Or is it an inferior skill? (Actually we lost the last game to a spinner probably on a spinning condition! So we are good in nothing! We also keep getting reminded about that odd loss against O'keefe but everyone have forgotten that odd loss of South Africa against Sreeshanth!)

We are the best team in asian conditions no doubt.
 
I never said I am "happy" with winning only in SL. But unlike you I am not dismissing those wins as "nothing" either.

Similarly, when did I say it's nothing, winning is winning, my point was, is and will be that to be the best touring team of last 15 years overseas we need to win in SENA as well apart from just WI and SL?
 
Kohli isn't a very good captain I agree. But he has 9 away wins. That's a fact.

The most by any other captain is 5. That's a pretty big difference.

And SL is #6 btw. In fact currently they have the exact same rating point as Eng.

And when India toured SL in 2015, SLNwas ranked #4.

Exactly right! Nullifying Herath both in India and Sri Lanka is a huge achievement by Indians (Pujara should be appreciated for that!) Similar thing was done to Muralitharan in the past (also Shane Warne). It is not like conditions in Srilanka and India are exactly the same just because they are neighbors! (Just like conditions in Australia & NZ are not the same)

I think a better coach would have kept Pujara, Rahane & Rahul in good terms by now and solidified the batting which would have eased a lot of burden over Kohli! Fortunately the bowlers are in form, otherwise India's performance would have been even more dismal!
 
And I already told you that I totally respect your opinion about winning in SENA. And I obviously agree with you that winning in SENA is a much bigger deal.

Where I am disagreeing with you is that you are simply brushing off wins against SL as nothing. I have already given you all the stats showing that India is the only team that's winning in SL. I don't know in how many more ways I can make you understand that.

I never brushed off those wins, my point is just based on winning in SL and WI, we can't conclude this to be the best touring team overseas in last 15 years. In order to conclude, we need to win in SENA as well.
 
Who told you that Pakistan play spinners poorly? If India plays against them in India or UAE, they will whitewash India! So Srilanka beat Australia + SA + Pakistan, then get beaten by India does not imply that India is best in spinning conditions! Pak will always beat us in PP Fantasy League!

Lol, Pak vs Ind in UAE/ Ind would have been competitive 2 years back(during MisYou). Now we'll win without even giving 100%
 
Similarly, when did I say it's nothing, winning is winning, my point was, is and will be that to be the best touring team of last 15 years overseas we need to win in SENA as well apart from just WI and SL?

No disagreements there
 
Similarly, when did I say it's nothing, winning is winning, my point was, is and will be that to be the best touring team of last 15 years overseas we need to win in SENA as well apart from just WI and SL?

The barking from this impotent coach need not be taken too seriously! (He is trying to hide his shortcoming) I am sure a sane Cricket Analyst/Ex-cricketer will remind the significance of winning outside the comfort zone! I feel for the "player/batsman" in your avatar, he deserved a better coach & captain!
 
The barking from this impotent coach need not be taken too seriously! (He is trying to hide his shortcoming) I am sure a sane Cricket Analyst/Ex-cricketer will remind the significance of winning outside the comfort zone! I feel for the "player/batsman" in your avatar, he deserved a better coach & captain!

Kohli, the player is great. But, he doesn't deserve a better Coach, as he himself recommended this JOKER to be a coach.

If Kohli(the Captain) and this JOKER costs us the WC, SHashtri should go back to commentating and, may be Bhuvi or Rohit should become the captain.
 
Kohli, the player is great. But, he doesn't deserve a better Coach, as he himself recommended this JOKER to be a coach.

If Kohli(the Captain) and this JOKER costs us the WC, SHashtri should go back to commentating and, may be Bhuvi or Rohit should become the captain.

From the little that I have seen, Rahane has seemed a much better test captain to me. Even Rohit seems a better LOI captain but I have doubts over his work ethic.

Kohli is a great leader and motivator of men. His work ethic and commitment as captain can never be questioned. But tactically and emotional intelligence-wise he comes up short.
 
From the little that I have seen, Rahane has seemed a much better test captain to me. Even Rohit seems a better LOI captain but I have doubts over his work ethic.

Kohli is a great leader and motivator of men. His work ethic and commitment as captain can never be questioned. But tactically and emotional intelligence-wise he comes up short.

Not to worry, WIN is touring, we'll smash them left, right, center, top, bottom, diagonal and, Shashtri will be forgiven.
 
Not to worry, WIN is touring, we'll smash them left, right, center, top, bottom, diagonal and, Shashtri will be forgiven.

We are facing a double-edged sword. If India wins the WC, Shashtri's stay will probably be extended. If we want him gone then we will have to hope for India to lose. Yikes! :))
 
A shambolic statement from the coach of the weakest no 1 team in the history of cricket.

India's top position in the test ranking just shows how much the quality of other cricket teams have regressed in recent past.

This Indian team got thrashed everytime they steped outside Asia in a humiliating fashion. Got hammered in NZ, were beaten to the pulp by the English, got smashed in SA and AUS as well. But in have to say that they did well against a minnow level team like SL who recently drew a test series at home against Bangladesh. Lol.
 
A shambolic statement from the coach of the weakest no 1 team in the history of cricket.

India's top position in the test ranking just shows how much the quality of other cricket teams have regressed in recent past.

This Indian team got thrashed everytime they steped outside Asia in a humiliating fashion. Got hammered in NZ, were beaten to the pulp by the English, got smashed in SA and AUS as well. But in have to say that they did well against a minnow level team like SL who recently drew a test series at home against Bangladesh. Lol.

It's always funny to see a Bangladeshi fan give free gyaan about what it takes to be the number 1 team.

It's like hearing an eskimo talk about throwing the best bbq. :))
 
What is Shastri talking about? India did not go into the final tests in both SA and England without losing the series already.
 
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