Virat Kohli vs Sachin Tendulkar in ODIs - Who is the best?

[shaz619]

A simple question for neutral and India fans, on a scale of 1-10 how close is Virat to Sachin Tendulkar in ODI's?

 

[Snow]

A simple question for neutral and India fans, on a scale of 1-10 how close is Virat to Sachin Tendulkar in ODI's?

Kohli

 

[Hasan123]

Sachin might be ahead for now but I think Virat will surpass him in Odis.In tests I think it will be difficult, but a golden summer in England next year will put him on the right path.

 

[Haz95]

People downplay people like Bradman for not having to play ATG bowlers and whatnot but when it comes to Kohli it's all fun and games. Kohli has not been presented with real ATG bowlers and/or conditions to make a judgement on whether he's in argument of being the greatest ODI batsman ever. Viv and Sachin comparison is far more understandable since not only did they careers overlap, both played ATG bowlers and/or tough conditions (that too with ease).

Does this mean Kohli can't play against ATG bowler? Nope. Does it however mean unfortunately lacks feats? Yes.

It's the same reason why Younis Khan cannot be rated an ATG batsman (haters aside); had he excelled in the away tours he missed, he would've been rated as a bonafide ATG but alas he couldn't. He also could've failed miserably (altho the fact that he scored a 200 in England and a 100 odd in Australia at the age of 43 however....) but unfortunately he was never provided with the opportunity therefore one simply cannot rate him ATG even tho there is evidence suggesting that he perhaps could.

Now onto Kohli, when provided with harsher conditions, i.e. the Indo/Pak series in 2012, he failed miserably(same reason why I rate Dhoni so highly for managing to score a 100 then). Can current Kohli do so? Maybe...but since he doesn't have the feats...we don't know. The fact is, it's all based on hyperboles.

A big challenge for Kohli should be how he handles Mitchell Starc, Rabada, Mustafizur Rahman and perhaps Imran Tahir(All of whom are brilliant ODI bowlers). If he can handle them with relative ease(especially not on the tripe wickets of today), then it's likely he could pass Sachin. At the moment however, he's still behind.

 

[shaz619]

Sachin might be ahead for now but I think Virat will surpass him in Odis.In tests I think it will be difficult, but a golden summer in England next year will put him on the right path.

So Sachin is ahead, and you base this on what?

And since you are suggesting Virat will surpass him in ODI's, how exactly is going to do that, more specifically what would he need to do more off which would eclipse Sachins achievements?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Kohli has already surpassed him in ODIs and will have surpassed him in Tests by the time he retires

 

[Hawkeye]

Sachin was an absolute dud outside Asia/UAE in ODIs.

 

[Stark]

Skill set wise, it is t'kar.
When one talks about absolute motivation and drive, VK it is. The day he starts to get his technique more comprehensive and compact game play graces him more, he ll be an absolute Titan.

Sachin was an absolute dud outside Asia/UAE in ODIs.

 

[EliteCynical]

I start to type this with the the following in mind - The chiselled, bearded, aggressive face of Kohli raising his bat, after chasing another impossible target, to say "come on" whisst the tattoo on the tight forearm cries out for attention and I am like "Wow" - The guy is something else. Even though he is younger, he is such a role model and the best thing to have happened to Indian Cricket.

Then I close my eyes and an MRF bat comes right at my face and makes a sweet sound like "tokkkk" and somewhere in the background I can hear Tony Greig saying "Whaddaplaya".All the memories come flowing back. The shots, the straight drives, the cover drives, the hook, the pull, the paddle sweep. Every time India needed him he gave 100% and also gave 1% each for the rest of the squad. "sachhinnn sachinnn" - Nothing can ever beat that emotion for an Indian.

Call me biased, but what was I thinking! It is Sachin.

 

[Noman]

Very Big sachin fan. Kholi is better than sachin.

 

[shaz619]

People downplay people like Bradman for not having to play ATG bowlers and whatnot but when it comes to Kohli it's all fun and games. Kohli has not been presented with real ATG bowlers and/or conditions to make a judgement on whether he's in argument of being the greatest ODI batsman ever. Viv and Sachin comparison is far more understandable since not only did they careers overlap, both played ATG bowlers and/or tough conditions (that too with ease).

Does this mean Kohli can't play against ATG bowler? Nope. Does it however mean unfortunately lacks feats? Yes.

It's the same reason why Younis Khan cannot be rated an ATG batsman (haters aside); had he excelled in the away tours he missed, he would've been rated as a bonafide ATG but alas he couldn't. He also could've failed miserably (altho the fact that he scored a 200 in England and a 100 odd in Australia at the age of 43 however....) but unfortunately he was never provided with the opportunity therefore one simply cannot rate him ATG even tho there is evidence suggesting that he perhaps could.

Now onto Kohli, when provided with harsher conditions, i.e. the Indo/Pak series in 2012, he failed miserably(same reason why I rate Dhoni so highly for managing to score a 100 then). Can current Kohli do so? Maybe...but since he doesn't have the feats...we don't know. The fact is, it's all based on hyperboles.

A big challenge for Kohli should be how he handles Mitchell Starc, Rabada, Mustafizur Rahman and perhaps Imran Tahir(All of whom are brilliant ODI bowlers). If he can handle them with relative ease(especially not on the tripe wickets of today), then it's likely he could pass Sachin. At the moment however, he's still behind.

Given some of the posts I've read these days, I wanted to ask the question in the OP because it would be the best way to get people thinking a little objectively because we're creating threads which suggest that quality of bowling, pitches and all should not be questioned with regards to his prowess as an ODI batsman but there's a big double standard isn't there.

People will justify a certain view based on who their favourite batsman is which is a shame. I see Kohli as a quality batsman but there's not a big enough sample set of his prowess in challenging conditions yet posters take this personally, there are not enough reasons for him to be considered in the same class as Sachin yet his undisputed greatness is being advocated which I do not agree with.

I wonder if anyone watched Sachin bat in the 90's before making bold claims of Kohli being superior, I don't think anyone can say that to me with a straight face

 

[Haz95]

Sachin was an absolute dud outside Asia/UAE in ODIs.

Best poster on PPer strikes again...Sachin the dud averages a measly 40@82 with 11 100s and 37 50s...that too in the flat tracks and mediocre bowlers of noughties and ninties where Batsman averages were obviously inflated!

What a dud! He should have just retired from playing outside of Asia!!

Given some of the posts I've read these days, I wanted to ask the question in the OP because it would be the best way to get people thinking a little objectively because we're creating threads which suggest that quality of bowling, pitches and all should not be questioned with regards to his prowess as an ODI batsman but there's a big double standard isn't there.

People will justify a certain view based on who their favourite batsman is which is a shame. I see Kohli as a quality batsman but there's not a big enough sample set of his prowess in challenging conditions yet posters take this personally, there are not enough reasons for him to be considered in the same class as Sachin yet his undisputed greatness is being advocated which I do not agree with.

I wonder if anyone watched Sachin bat in the 90's before making bold claims of Kohli being superior, I don't think anyone can say that to me with a straight face

Too right. The same people who say 'ahhh Kohli is the best sportsman ever since Ali blah blah and once can only play who they're presented with ' are the ones who say 'Bradman played in a weak era with minnow bashing and etc.'

eveh, kids

 

[Stark]

Very Big sachin fan. Kholi is better than sachin.

Consistency is the name of the game eh

 

[kingusama92]

Who would I take in a massive chase?

Kohli.

That's the answer and I have massive respect for Sachin (especially 90s version).

In tests, I'd take Sachin over Kohli.

 

[Asim2Good]

not even close
Sachin is way ahead.

 

[ads101]

Kohli, not even close.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

It's very close. Like both Sachin and Kohli. I think Kohli will end up with more ODI 100's then Sachin.

If I have to pick I will go with Sachin

 

[Chrish]

People fail to realize how good SRT was considering his average and SR as an opener.. also he batted in the era when OdI cricket wasn't as easy..

He is pretty much peerless as an opener in this format of the game

 

[jnaveen1980]

I like them both . Tendu is an artist. Back in the 90s it was unreal how Tendulkar would pick up the length so quickly. He used to pull good length balls if needed. He had amazing range of shots. Until Virendar Sehwag arrived he was doing the beast role for India alongwith consolidation role. But Kohli's whippy style of batting is magical. I watch each of his knocks multiple times after the match is over. He is that good. It is hard to believe some of his shots. Kohli does it under pressure time after time after time.

 

[shaz619]

I like them both . Tendu is an artist. Back in the 90s it was unreal how Tendulkar would pick up the length so quickly. He used to pull good length balls if needed. He had amazing range of shots. Until Virendar Sehwag arrived he was doing the beast role for India alongwith consolidation role. But Kohli's whippy style of batting is magical. I watch each of his knocks multiple times after the match is over. He is that good. It is hard to believe some of his shots. Kohli does it under pressure time after time after time.

Am sorry but we mustn't take Kohli performances literally especially when comparing him to a legend like Sachin who has the numbers and performances to advocate his greatness whilst leaving no doubt at all; the man slaughtered World Class bowlers in tough tough conditions. It's not like Kohli is averaging 99 which eliminates all the anomalies including the flat pitches and inferior bowling attacks etc; I do believe he'd have done okay in ODI's in the past era's but with what certainty can we say he'd be at the level of Sachin Tendulkar? there is little which suggests he'd compare to the greatness of the man, the myth and the legend.

 

[urnotserious]

Sachin was an absolute dud outside Asia/UAE in ODIs.

So umm averaging 47 in West Indies, 39 in NZ(1 century), 38 in SA(4 centuries), 34 in Australia(1 century) = an absolute dud?

Your hatred for him is blinding you.

 

[Enforcer]

Sachin is better than Kohli as of now. Sachin has helped us to win a series against Australia in Australia, something that Kohli has failed to emulate in his Career so far.

 

[Pollack]

I want kohli to take on quality bowlers who are at the peak and then make judgement. It hasn't happened till now.Mitch Johnson when on song was quality and kohli failed against him in most important match of the world cup.
Sachin is better at the moment.But its only a matter of time before kohli sorts out all doubts.

 

[street cricketer]

Sachin was a leading run scorer in the '96 world cup at just 23 years of age. He was again a leading run scorer in the 2011 world cup at 38 years of age.

Kohli has probably beaten him in bilaterals but has a fair distance to go before emulating him in world cups which is the biggest and grandest stage of them all..

 

[jnaveen1980]

Am sorry but we mustn't take Kohli performances literally especially when comparing him to a legend like Sachin who has the numbers and performances to advocate his greatness whilst leaving no doubt at all; the man slaughtered World Class bowlers in tough tough conditions. It's not like Kohli is averaging 99 which eliminates all the anomalies including the flat pitches and inferior bowling attacks etc; I do believe he'd have done okay in ODI's in the past era's but with what certainty can we say he'd be at the level of Sachin Tendulkar? there is little which suggests he'd compare to the greatness of the man, the myth and the legend.

I am not saying one is better than other. Kohli's consistency is amazing. He has averaged 53, he has 27 centuries 22 man of the matches. There is no way you can trivialize given his career which is just getting started. He averages 50 plus in all 3 formats. Tendulkar did play on plenty of flat pitches as well. He never could make 500 in a completed series. For someone who played that long with that much talent you think that is an anamoly? No. He had issues with conversion also sustaining peak form throughout the series.

 

[JaDed]

Sachin in 90's was in diff league could play moving ball,pace and obviously spin much better. Kohli has a more calculated approach to batting and is improving as a batsman but Sachin was already a great batsman by 1998.(25).

Sachin easily for me.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Sachin easily. Kohli will need to do a lot more than score in bilaterals to overtake Sachin but if anyone can even come close to challenging SRT's place at the top, it is Kohli. Next 3-4 years will decide if Kohli can match or even exceed SRT or not.

At this moment its too premature to be comparing them. He doesn't even have half the runs SRT has.

 

[Zak_Fan]

A few months ago, Ponting beat Kohli in a comparison thread. But now, for the same people, Kohli is "comfortably" ahead of Sachin.

 

[Indiafan]

So Sachin is ahead, and you base this on what?

And since you are suggesting Virat will surpass him in ODI's, how exactly is going to do that, more specifically what would he need to do more off which would eclipse Sachins achievements?

Base this on our series win out of India in Sahrjah against the might Aussies and the only ODI series win IN Australia in 2008 led by Sachin. And other such feats Kohli is yet to accomplish (I am sure he will in time). Most of Kohli's ODI wins have been at home for now

 

[Indiafan]

I am not saying one is better than other. Kohli's consistency is amazing. He has averaged 53, he has 27 centuries 22 man of the matches. There is no way you can trivialize given his career which is just getting started. He averages 50 plus in all 3 formats. Tendulkar did play on plenty of flat pitches as well. He never could make 500 in a completed series. For someone who played that long with that much talent you think that is an anamoly? No. He had issues with conversion also sustaining peak form throughout the series.

Tendulkar could never complete 500 in a completed series because in his prime we always played 2-3 test series and they were far apart unlike now when we regularly play 5 test series. Tests were not considered important. Sachin completed 495 runs in a TWO match test series, you really think he could not complete 5 more runs if there was just one more test? People ignore this very obvious reason. People like Ponting who had lots of 500 runs series played mostly 5 match series

 

[Indiafan]

Tendulkar could never complete 500 in a completed series because in his prime we always played 2-3 test series and they were far apart unlike now when we regularly play 5 test series. Tests were not considered important. Sachin completed 495 runs in a TWO match test series, you really think he could not complete 5 more runs if there was just one more test? People ignore this very obvious reason. People like Ponting who had lots of 500 runs series played mostly 5 match series

Slight amendment, he scored 403 in a 2 match series and 446 in a 3 match series. All his top scoring series in his career are 3 match series when he was in his prime. In fact, in his entire career, Sachin has only played 5 matches in a test series twice, once in Australia in 91 and once in West Indies in 2002, not a single 5 match series at home.

 

[R0H1T]

Slight amendment, he scored 403 in a 2 match series and 446 in a 3 match series. All his top scoring series in his career are 3 match series when he was in his prime. In fact, in his entire career, Sachin has only played 5 matches in a test series twice, once in Australia in 91 and once in West Indies in 2002, not a single 5 match series at home.

And less than half the number of tests played at his peak than the likes of Cook, Ponting, Sanga or even Kallis. His peak btw was nearly a decade, from 93/94 till 2003/04 easily.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Tendulkar could never complete 500 in a completed series because in his prime we always played 2-3 test series and they were far apart unlike now when we regularly play 5 test series. Tests were not considered important. Sachin completed 495 runs in a TWO match test series, you really think he could not complete 5 more runs if there was just one more test? People ignore this very obvious reason. People like Ponting who had lots of 500 runs series played mostly 5 match series

Laxman made 503 runs in a 3 test series which Sachin also played.. Dravid made 633 runs in 4 test series which Sachin also played.

 

[IndianMafia]

I am loving the debate. Would be apt if we judge Kohli once he is retired. Period

 

[Varun]

Comparing across different eras should be especially forbidden in ODIs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I am loving the debate. Would be apt if we judge Kohli once he is retired. Period

Exactly I started following cricket even before Sachin made debut. Was a fan of him from day one. He inspired 100s of people. We got Sehwag because of Sachin. He started his cricket by copying Sachin's shots before evolving into his own. Dhoni, Kohli sure all had their own stories about how Sachin inspired them. That is his biggest achievement.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Comparing across different eras should be especially forbidden in ODIs.

Yes .True. No bye runner these days IN between we had 12 players a side for a while. 20 over power play for sometimes. Two new balls. So many changes.

 

[akki]

People downplay people like Bradman for not having to play ATG bowlers and whatnot but when it comes to Kohli it's all fun and games. Kohli has not been presented with real ATG bowlers and/or conditions to make a judgement on whether he's in argument of being the greatest ODI batsman ever. Viv and Sachin comparison is far more understandable since not only did they careers overlap, both played ATG bowlers and/or tough conditions (that too with ease).

Does this mean Kohli can't play against ATG bowler? Nope. Does it however mean unfortunately lacks feats? Yes.

It's the same reason why Younis Khan cannot be rated an ATG batsman (haters aside); had he excelled in the away tours he missed, he would've been rated as a bonafide ATG but alas he couldn't. He also could've failed miserably (altho the fact that he scored a 200 in England and a 100 odd in Australia at the age of 43 however....) but unfortunately he was never provided with the opportunity therefore one simply cannot rate him ATG even tho there is evidence suggesting that he perhaps could.

Now onto Kohli, when provided with harsher conditions, i.e. the Indo/Pak series in 2012, he failed miserably(same reason why I rate Dhoni so highly for managing to score a 100 then). Can current Kohli do so? Maybe...but since he doesn't have the feats...we don't know. The fact is, it's all based on hyperboles.

A big challenge for Kohli should be how he handles Mitchell Starc, Rabada, Mustafizur Rahman and perhaps Imran Tahir(All of whom are brilliant ODI bowlers). If he can handle them with relative ease(especially not on the tripe wickets of today), then it's likely he could pass Sachin. At the moment however, he's still behind.

which bigger challenge? he has already very good avergae against starc,steyn....or whatever bowlers you mentioned playing in thier own den in his first tour itself.....he has just not scored in one series in england....he has centuries and very good average in australia,new zealand,south africa..,

 

[sarthak]

Not the smartest thing rating a current player who has maybe 10 years cricket left in him with an ATG of the game.

But based on where maybe Sachin was at Virat's age, you can say Virat is little ahead simply because of the impact he has on match results compared to Sachin. Part of this can be due to the fact that others around Kohli (incl the bowling) are a little more clutch compared to Tendulkar's colleagues and partly also because the standards of the rest of the world have fallen.

 

[Hasan123]

So Sachin is ahead, and you base this on what?

And since you are suggesting Virat will surpass him in ODI's, how exactly is going to do that, more specifically what would he need to do more off which would eclipse Sachins achievements?

Sachin longevity and he was literally carrying the batting line up in his younger years.

If Virat can dominate a World Cup he'll almost certainly surpass Sachin. I think his chasing ability is much better than Sachins already. Also right now he is carrying his LO batting. More run chases like the other day he'll surpass Sachin in Odis.

In tests, needs to score in England and keep up his away record in other countries.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sachin at age of 23 dominated the 96 WC with the bat and single handedly took his team to semis.

Kohli has done these stuffs in world t20s and has played plenty great knocks in odis, albeit on flat decks(although that is what every1 is getting so not his fault).

Kohli need to dominate two world cups or win atleast one with him being a standout performer to match or surpass Sachin in LOIs.

 

[IndianMafia]

Exactly I started following cricket even before Sachin made debut. Was a fan of him from day one. He inspired 100s of people. We got Sehwag because of Sachin. He started his cricket by copying Sachin's shots before evolving into his own. Dhoni, Kohli sure all had their own stories about how Sachin inspired them. That is his biggest achievement.

And most importantly, players look Bradmansque when they are really playing well , when they're on their peak, so judging when they are on their peak is like judging a kid who gets 1st rank in 1st standard and comparing that kid to Einstein.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Kohli may likely end up being greater but he isn't now.

But looking at the comments above shows how easily influenced PPers can be. Remember a time when ABD was considered so far ahead of SRT? )

If Kohli is so far ahead of SRT now, then if he retires now, he should be considered the greater bat.

Yet if he fails in next WC, the same set of people will turn against him and maybe even call him a bilateral bully. Haha.

It doesn't take long for narratives to change here.

SRT if he was opening would have averaged 50-55 with 95 SR today (conservatively speaking). This is not some number I pulled out of a place where the sun dosn't shine. Check SRT's numbers around the late 2000s period (after he turned around his career recovering from a slump). Pitches got even more easier post 2011.

Maintaining balanced records in ODIs today is a PIECE of cake.

ODI pitches in modern era

India - Pattas
SA - Pattas in ODIs (check records)
Aus - Pattas
Eng - Not pattas but high scoring
UAE, Bang, SL - High scoring/pattas

Now that doesn't mean SRT would have automatically had more impact than Kohli which is debatable.

But in WCs until NOW, he sure as hell would have.

So all in all.....let Kohli's career finish and then let's see.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Personally I think Kohli will retire as the greater ODI bat.

Some of the things he can do in ODIs....Sachin can't.

But that's not the be all and end all of comparison.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Kohli may likely end up being greater but he isn't now.

But looking at the comments above shows how easily influenced PPers can be. Remember a time when ABD was considered so far ahead of SRT? )

If Kohli is so far ahead of SRT now, then if he retires now, he should be considered the greater bat.

Yet if he fails in next WC, the same set of people will turn against him and maybe even call him a bilateral bully. Haha.

It doesn't take long for narratives to change here.

SRT if he was opening would have averaged 50-55 with 95 SR today (conservatively speaking). This is not some number I pulled out of a place where the sun dosn't shine. Check SRT's numbers around the late 2000s period (after he turned around his career recovering from a slump). Pitches got even more easier post 2011.

Maintaining balanced records in ODIs today is a PIECE of cake.

ODI pitches in modern era

India - Pattas
SA - Pattas in ODIs (check records)
Aus - Pattas
Eng - Not pattas but high scoring
UAE, Bang, SL - High scoring/pattas

Now that doesn't mean SRT would have automatically had more impact than Kohli which is debatable.

But in WCs until NOW, he sure as hell would have.

So all in all.....let Kohli's career finish and then let's see.

Eng are as flat as they come in ODI's.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sachin could have played a high scoring chase knock that would have been greater than anything Kohli has done.

The 175 against Aus where he could have single handedly won it for us.

But he had to play the stupid paddle scoop and get out.

Kohli in the same position would have not played the shot and most likely won the game for us.

In Hobart 2012, SRT looked in good touch but played a cute shot and got out. Kohli didn't do that and ended up playing one of the greatest iconic knocks ever.

That is the difference between Tendulkar and Kohli.

You can throw out stats, team strength, easier era, etc...in that aspect Kohli trumps SRT big time.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Eng are as flat as they come in ODI's.

Yes but atleast there is some help for spinners and pacers in some pitches.

 

[R0H1T]

Sachin could have played a high scoring chase knock that would have been greater than anything Kohli has done.

The 175 against Aus where he could have single handedly won it for us.

But he had to play the stupid paddle scoop and get out.

Kohli in the same position would have not played the shot and most likely won the game for us.

In Hobart 2012, SRT looked in good touch but played a cute shot and got out. Kohli didn't do that and ended up playing one of the greatest iconic knocks ever.

That is the difference between Tendulkar and Kohli.

You can throw out stats, team strength, easier era, etc...in that aspect Kohli trumps SRT big time.

You can then bring common sense into the equation & ask yourself has there ever been an opener in ODI who's also been a finisher, the answer is a big NO. SRT is the closest, you realize how difficult it would've been for him to chase that total alone vs Aus, as a 35yrs old after fielding in that heat & of course he had virtually no support from the other end. The Hobart chase was setup by the openers & Gambhir, minus that we wouldn't have chases that total down in ~36 over even with an ATG performance from Kohli.

I get it that he's a better chase/finisher than SRT but that goes down to him batting at 3/4 or whatever. Openers should not & ought not to be expected to finish a chase, that's what middle & lower orders are there to do. The Centurion 2003 innings against Pak, doubt any opener can replicate that carnage ever, even in a JAMODI let alone WC yet it was Dravid & Yuvraj that did justice to that innings. The Sharjah century in the final, do you remember who was betting when India eventually chased that target down, or the one century that made the final possible for us?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You can then bring common sense into the equation & ask yourself has there ever been an opener in ODI who's also been a finisher, the answer is a big NO. SRT is the closest, you realize how difficult it would've been for him to chase that total alone vs Aus, as a 35yrs old after fielding in that heat & of course he had virtually no support from the other end. The Hobart chase was setup by the openers & Gambhir, minus that we wouldn't have chases that total down in ~36 over even with an ATG performance from Kohli.

I get it that he's a better chase/finisher than SRT but that goes down to him batting at 3/4 or whatever. Openers should not & ought not to be expected to finish a chase, that's what middle & lower orders are there to do. The Centurion 2003 innings against Pak, doubt any opener can replicate that carnage ever, even in a JAMODI let alone WC yet it was Dravid & Yuvraj that did justice to that innings. The Sharjah century in the final, do you remember who was betting when India eventually chased that target down, or the one century that made the final possible for us?

I said high scoring chase.

As I said, SRT has a lot going for him to be considered greater than Kohli but the one area he is clearly inferior to Kohli is ruthlessness.

SRT has got out stupidly many times.

Remember the Mark Waugh dismissal while he was flaying the Aussies?

The paddle scoop against Aus in 175 was inexcusable.

Seen him get out in a soft way or to a nothing ball when he is going good many a times. There was a game where he got out to a innocuous delivery from an Aussie pacer after playing so well and our tail finished off the match.

SRT for sure would have never pulled off the chase Kohli did against Aus in WT20.

Nor would he have pulled off 350 after being 63-4 in a patta.

Nor would he have pulled off Hobart 2012.

Nor would have have pulled off Kohli's 183 against Pakistan.

Nor would have have pulled off Kohli's 123* against SL in 5th ODI when he finished the chase after India were 7 down or something.

When Kohli gets set, people feel reassured. Sure, Kohli has failed after being set but he has done it so many times that the feeling persists.

When SRT is set, they don't feel that way.

 

[R0H1T]

I said high scoring chase.

As I said, SRT has a lot going for him to be considered greater than Kohli but the one area he is clearly inferior to Kohli is ruthlessness.

SRT has got out stupidly many times.

Remember the Mark Waugh dismissal while he was flaying the Aussies?

The paddle scoop against Aus in 175 was inexcusable.

Seen him get out in a soft way or to a nothing ball when he is going good many a times. There was a game where he got out to a innocuous delivery from an Aussie pacer after playing so well and our tail finished off the match.

SRT for sure would have never pulled off the chase Kohli did against Aus in WT20.

Nor would he have pulled off 350 after being 63-4 in a patta.

Nor would he have pulled off Hobart 2012.

Nor would have have pulled off Kohli's 183 against Pakistan.

Nor would have have pulled off Kohli's 123* against SL in 5th ODI when he finished the chase after India were 7 down or something.

When Kohli gets set, people feel reassured. Sure, Kohli has failed after being set but he has done it so many times that the feeling persists.

When SRT is set, they don't feel that way.

Would Kohli have chased down the WT20 score if Dhawan made a duck, the 350 chase unless MoM Jadhav were to be at his side, Hobart without the three in the top order blasting SL away, that 183 without SRT's fifty?

If the answer to all of these is yes then clearly he should have no hundreds in a losing cause while chasing right? If not then you have the answer, most of the innings where SRT's hundreds were in a losing cause were because he had very little or zero support from the other end. Opener finisher is a tougher role than middle order finisher because you have to face the new ball & fight fatigue, opening is still the hardest thing to pull off even in ODI or T20.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Would Kohli have chased down the WT20 score if Dhawan made a duck, the 350 chase unless MoM Jadhav were to be at his side, Hobart without the three in the top order blasting SL away, that 183 without SRT's fifty?

If the answer to all of these is yes then clearly he should have no hundreds in a losing cause while chasing right? If not then you have the answer, most of the innings where SRT's hundreds were in a losing cause were because he had very little or zero support from the other end. Opener finisher is a tougher role than middle order finisher because you have to face the new ball, opening is still the hardest thing to pull off even in ODI or T20.

Doesn't matter.

SRT in the EXACT same position as Kohli with all the other support in those games would still not closed out any of the games that Kohli did.

He failed Hobart and Dhaka while Kohli did it in the same game. And both the games he looked in good touch so he wasn't even out of form.

He sure as hell wouldn't have done it against Aus WT20 from the position.

That SL knock at home was incredible too.

That's the difference between these 2.

However the area where SRT wins s that he was able to perform for so long in a team full of duds (not name wise but performance wise). It was SRT or LITERALLY nothing for a long time and he was the one hope for India.

 

[R0H1T]

Doesn't matter.

SRT in the EXACT same position as Kohli with all the other support in those games would still not closed out any of the games that Kohli did.

He failed Hobart and Dhaka while Kohli did it in the same game. And both the games he looked in good touch so he wasn't even out of form.

He sure as hell wouldn't have done it against Aus WT20 from the position.

That SL knock at home was incredible too.

That's the difference between these 2.

However the area where SRT wins s that he was able to perform for so long in a team full of duds (not name wise but performance wise). It was SRT or LITERALLY nothing for a long time and he was the one hope for India.

It doesn't matter to you, not that I expected anything different, but when you're doing an objective analysis you also look at the other performances that matter. Would you expect spinners to have the same strike rate as pacers, why not they're both bowlers at the end of the day? Shouldn't openers (in tests) average just as much or more than middle order bats? Why do slip fielders take more catches than outfielders, or wicket keepers more than slips?

I do agree that Kohli atm is a better chaser/finisher than SRT, not a better ODI bat though.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It doesn't matter to you, not that I expected anything different, but when you're doing an objective analysis you also look at the other performances that matter. Would you expect spinners to have the same strike rate as pacers, why not they're both bowlers at the end of the day? Shouldn't openers (in tests) average just as much or more than middle order bats? Why do slip fielders take more catches than outfielders, or wicket keepers more than slips?

I do agree that Kohli atm is a better chaser/finisher than SRT, not a better ODI bat though.

Not making make any sweeping statements based on just those 2 games where they both played.

But across their careers, the trends for this aspect are quite clear.

You may say its speculative which would be true but any comparison (even among players of the same era) is speculative because no 2 players have the exact same conditions. If ABD was in a gun team, he would have won the WC for SA. He was playing an iconic knock in SF that was cut short by rain.

But across careers, when you watch players, you can see what's what.

 

[SandyB]

One thing I want to add to this is that Kohli's & Sachin's biggest strengths are in vastly different aspects.

What Kohli does better than any Indian player of the past & pretty much any LOI batsman of the present is that He MAXIMISES his odds of success & MINIMISES the risks of getting out..

When Kohli comes to a chase - Irrespective of when the 1st wicket falls , he always gets going with singles/dab's to third man.. (Last match was a rare exception ) .He keeps the areal shots toward the latter half of his innings. If the bowler is on top(like Amir in the Asia cup 2016) he plays out a few overs while still keeping up with the rate . In the last match the pitch was flat & grounds were small, so he was in a level of form where he could try that . But if it was a spicier pitch against a spicier attack , HE WOULD"NT HAVE EVEN TRIED.

Would SRT hold back like that ? NO.. Maybe he didn't have the resolve of Virat . Also, maybe he had the level of talent where he could play those riskier shots and would certainly try to impose himself on the opposition.

Case in point is the 2003 WC semi VS Pakistan.

Sachin said later he had spent the past 6 months anticipating & preparing for that matchup. Look at what he did..

The match was done within the first 10-15 overs !. Its was not just about playing well or taking the team across . Here he was imposing his will & SHEER TALENT over one of the most fearsome attacks in the WC (SHOAIB-WASIM-WAQAR). He targeted Shoaib , their best and most dangerous bowler head on..

I don't think Kohli would've risked that much against them . He would've knocked around the pacers for singles & twos. Hit some fours along the way. Taken the game till 200-250 in around 40 overs and then cut loose.Starting with Rassaq or the weaker links of the attack at first . That would've been the best strategy to ensure our victory . It had lesser chance of failure. If Sachin had gone out early we would've lost that match.

But the point is VIRAT WOULDN'T DO IT because he would've always gone for the better-odds strategy.

That is what sways me a bit more towards Sachin.

He always took the game on to THE BEST BOWLER in the attack (Donald-McGrath-Murali-Warne-Shoaib etc ). It was as if his ego needed the high of not just winning but demoralizing/dismantling the best bowler as soon as he started. To prove that he had the ability to do so.. He has been dismissed many times playing riskier shots . That explains the reason in which his centuries couldn't guarantee outright victories the way Virat's does

But Virat never does that . He could if he wanted to . But in such a situation he would just swallow his pride and play with his calculated plan in mind. Attacking & defending in measured quantities, slowly but surely improving his odds , weakening the bowler's confidence... Till the moment he feels the the odds have tilted sufficiently in his favor and/or the bowling has started panicking .. . Then & ONLY then he cuts loose..

Conclusion : If we are to analyse cricket as a business with stats & end results and profit & loss margins , then Virat trumps Sachin and is far ahead almost everywhere (except WC's). But there are more subtleties in the way we enjoy cricket.. That's where Tendulkar's greatness lies.. So are the talents of Lara(much more imposing & much less consistent) & Ponting (always imposing but had a shorted peak ).

A late 90's or early 2000's kid will just look up the score cards or cricinfo stats and make his conclusions. But those of us from the 90's who saw that 2003' semi or the desert storm innings or even the back-to-back Century & 90 plus in the 2008 CB series will have a different perspective..

When 155Kph screamers from Brett Lee are straight driven past him at the same speed , with minimal theatrics or exaggerated bat swings, when every powerpaly over of an India ODI would be filled with little running and more of the fielders standing and watching as the ball threaded between them like a needle.. Or when the most vicious of Akhtar's thunderbolts were flicked/upper cut ..Or when reverse paddles or lofted shots would be played against the most spitting of spinning deliveries. Those were sights to behold.. !

My point is Sometimes it took a less calculative and more flawed genius like Sachin to give you those pleasures. .. Virat is special in his own different way .. He's perfect , what India needed.. Lets hope he adds more and more dimensions to his game and breaks all the great man's records..

 

[shaz619]

Sachin longevity and he was literally carrying the batting line up in his younger years.

If Virat can dominate a World Cup he'll almost certainly surpass Sachin. I think his chasing ability is much better than Sachins already. Also right now he is carrying his LO batting. More run chases like the other day he'll surpass Sachin in Odis.

In tests, needs to score in England and keep up his away record in other countries.

In other words, your overhyping of Virat is not justified; am glas you admit to being wrong. What you speak of are all hypothetical scenarios, what's to say the man who dominated an era where he had it touger would flop in a time period where batting is so much easier? He has done it all im every circumstance imaginable, had his prime coincided in the current era what's to say Sachin wouldn't be averaging 60-70. What we have here is overhyping the current lot and underating stars such as Sachin who by far have a superior resume and a lot more to show even at the same age as Virat

 

[shaz619]

Base this on our series win out of India in Sahrjah against the might Aussies and the only ODI series win IN Australia in 2008 led by Sachin. And other such feats Kohli is yet to accomplish (I am sure he will in time). Most of Kohli's ODI wins have been at home for now

I asked him those questions so he thinks a bit more objectively, I don't agree with you normally but I do in this instance

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Kohli has already surpassed him in ODIs and will have surpassed him in Tests by the time he retires

Tendulkar in tests was something else (compared to Kohli).

He had Steve Smith stats (average of 64) for a decade facing ATG bowlers.

So how is Kohli going to better that?

 

[shaz619]

Tendulkar in tests was something else (compared to Kohli).

He had Steve Smith stats (average of 64) for a decade facing ATG bowlers.

So how is Kohli going to better that?

Contrary to popular belief, I do believe Kohli is a good batsman but this thread is evidence for why am against the excessive over hyping; even Sachin is being belittled by India fans! I thought this thread would provoke objectivity but while it has in some ways, some posts are shocking.

I don't think fans who started watching the game in the 2000's will ever appreciate the genius Sachin was in the 90's, that too with all the obstacles against him. However, peer review, video footage, study of history and the opinions of those who grew up watching Sachin are all there for folk to form a more objective view but they refuse to and am not sure why.

 

[bala977]

I grew up watching Tendulkar but will take Kohli any day. My three reasons:

- When Kohli goes into bat, you believe that he will win the match single handedly. With Tendulkar, you never got that feeling.
- Kohli seems to believe in meritocracy. Tendulkar had a clique of Bhajji, Sehwag etc. and sided towards groupism.
- Kohli doesn't go around telling people that he is a "humble" man. Whenever Sachin was in the press, he made sure that the words "humility" and "humble" were always mentioned.

I will take a brash, aggressive, rude player who wins matches any day over someone who believed in "competing" well!!
-

 

[TestMatch]

Kohli wouldn't even exist without Tendulkar. You can't compare things like this. One is a direct product of the other.

 

[battler]

Virat Kohli.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Tendulkar in tests was something else (compared to Kohli).

He had Steve Smith stats (average of 64) for a decade facing ATG bowlers.

So how is Kohli going to better that?

He just is

 

[Dead Ball]

At Kohli's age, Tendulkar was voted as the second greatest test batsman to Bradman by Wisden. Just a random detail for young PPérs.

In tests, i would predict Kohli to end up with around 30-35 hundreds all over the world. Or even 40 if he has a Ponting-esque peak.

In ODI's , Kohli is the greatest finisher/chaser i have ever seen and probably the greatest ever.

Two quick points i would like to make as regards to his comparison with Tendulkar -

- Tendulkar was better in big matches, and yes i am well aware of his WC Final failures. Kohli has had no moments in his ODI career so far that can match up to SRT's 1996 WC, 2003 WC, 2011 WC, 2008 CB Series finals heroics etc. Kohli's record in ODI knockouts are terrible and he needs to improve that. Tendulkar's performances in tournament finals is tremendous in comparison.

- Tendulkar, and this cannot be mentioned too often, faced arguably 9 of the 10 greatest ODI bowlers in history (did not face Joel Garner). Of course, Kohli can only face the bowlers he plays with, but that does not negate the fact that he has a clear advantage of run scoring in this era.

To me, Kohli has a huge chance of over-taking not only SRT, but also Viv Richards (who is the greatest ever ODI bat IMHO) if he can start performing consistently on the big stage. I will be keeping an eye on him during 2019 WC, he needs to make it his own for him to be counted among the greatest.

In tests, he needs to get around 30 hundreds before we start the SRT vs Kohli debate.

 

[Haz95]

which bigger challenge? he has already very good avergae against starc,steyn....or whatever bowlers you mentioned playing in thier own den in his first tour itself.....he has just not scored in one series in england....he has centuries and very good average in australia,new zealand,south africa..,

No the bullcrap you spewed is with regards to where Kohli is miles behind Sachin....Test cricket

vs SA in 2013..zilch, vs Bdesh in 2015..zilch, vs Pak in 2012...zilch. These are examples off the top of my head which consisted of great bowlers and/or testing ODI conditions.

Oh my bad, he was obviously in 'bad form'.....

That's not to mean there aren't good innings (i.e that 133* where he murdered Malinga) but there's nowhere near enough in a relatively decent sample set.It's clear that his current fans are extremely sensitive and/or hormonal and think he's completely immune to any sort of criticism.

He has a chance even in this awful cricketing era (for ODIs) to lay claims of being better than Sachin because every now and again there are good pitches and there will be tough bowlers, like I said the first time round. As of now however, he has failed at times and in order to best the 1/2nd greatest ODI batsmen ever, you have got to be close to flawless. The only thing Kohli trumps SRT in is chasing which he's amazing in.

Kohli bandwagoners should make an argument as to how he's better than AB de Villiers before comparing him to Bonafide ATGs.

 

[akki]

No the bullcrap you spewed is with regards to where Kohli is miles behind Sachin....Test cricket

vs SA in 2013..zilch, vs Bdesh in 2015..zilch, vs Pak in 2012...zilch. These are examples off the top of my head which consisted of great bowlers and/or testing ODI conditions.

Oh my bad, he was obviously in 'bad form'.....

That's not to mean there aren't good innings (i.e that 133* where he murdered Malinga) but there's nowhere near enough in a relatively decent sample set.It's clear that his current fans are extremely sensitive and/or hormonal and think he's completely immune to any sort of criticism.

He has a chance even in this awful cricketing era (for ODIs) to lay claims of being better than Sachin because every now and again there are good pitches and there will be tough bowlers, like I said the first time round. As of now however, he has failed at times and in order to best the 1/2nd greatest ODI batsmen ever, you have got to be close to flawless. The only thing Kohli trumps SRT in is chasing which he's amazing in.

Kohli bandwagoners should make an argument as to how he's better than AB de Villiers before comparing him to Bonafide ATGs.

you know what ask any international cricket experts ..anywhere ...sky9 sports...even your ptv sports....all considers kohli best in the world right now...offcourse when kohli doesnt score run then pitch is difficult....when he scores then its flat.....he has scored everywhere...he hasnt surpassed sachin agree...but at the moment there is no batsman in the world who can play like him all over the world in any format......its also true......

 

[Hasan123]

In other words, your overhyping of Virat is not justified; am glas you admit to being wrong. What you speak of are all hypothetical scenarios, what's to say the man who dominated an era where he had it touger would flop in a time period where batting is so much easier? He has done it all im every circumstance imaginable, had his prime coincided in the current era what's to say Sachin wouldn't be averaging 60-70. What we have here is overhyping the current lot and underating stars such as Sachin who by far have a superior resume and a lot more to show even at the same age as Virat

Lol Sachin is the greatest batsmen I have ever seen, you are the one who calls him ovverated now your using him to make Kohli look like a less of a player.

I am not speaking of any hypothetical scenarios, ask any Indian and they'll say Virat is the better chase and if he dominates a World Cup and maintains his current LO record of course hell surpass Sachin. Sachin never scored 4 centuries in a 4 test series vs Australia. Kohli has done special things and so has Sachin. The overhyping is all in your head because you don't rate Kohli.

Sachin would easily be averaging 50 in this era. You call Sachin ovverated anyway so stop acting like your a fan of his ) ).

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Let's compare Tendulkar and Kohli in their most common batting position (2nd and 3rd) and compare it to the upper order batsman (1-4) from their eras. 1994 is the beginning of timeframe since tendulkar used to be a lower-middle order batsman before that and his position was frequently changed before it was stabilized.

Tendulkar 1994-2012 (opener, 2nd position)

View attachment 72092

Upper order batsman from other countries 1994-2002 (No minnows included, aka Bangladesh and Zimbabwe)

View attachment 72094

Batting average difference- 14.47
Strike rate difference- 12.22

Virat Kohli 2008-2017 (3rd position)


Upper order batsman from other countries 2009-2017


Batting average difference- 16.68
Strike rate difference- 8.35

It is apparent that Tendulkar was much more aggressive than Kohli however Kohli is slightly better compared to rest of his peers. Overall tie

Next post is about bowling (India will be excluded in next post since tendulkar and kohli never faced their own bowling attacks)

 

[Hasan123]

As of now Sachin is clearly the superior batsmen, Kohli has some way to catch him in that format. But in LO it's much closer, I think Kohli will surpass him in this format. Let's see what happens in tests.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

As of now Sachin is clearly the superior batsmen, Kohli has some way to catch him in that format. But in LO it's much closer, I think Kohli will surpass him in this format. Let's see what happens in tests.

Tendulkar is miles ahead of Kohli in test, it's not even comparable. He has 40+ batting average in EVERY single country on earth. Complete freak in test. Kohli needs to score two double tons in England if he ever wants to match the little master in test. In ODI Kohli is indeed somewhat better than Tendulkar compared to the peers (and of course more frequent match winner)

 

[Hasan123]

As of now Sachin is clearly the superior batsmen, Kohli has some way to catch him in that format. But in LO it's much closer, I think Kohli will surpass him in this format. Let's see what happens in tests.

*supeior batsman in the test format.

 

[Midwinter13992]

I'm huge fan of Legend SRT but got to admit that Kohli is already better than him in ODIs..The way Kohli handles the chase without getting out in pressure situations makes him better than any other player in the history of ODIs..

 

[Bilal7]

Sachin is better ODI batsman. Better record in WCs and against the bowling attacks of South Africa, Australia and England away, along with being equally great in setting or chasing a total. Kohli is the best ODI chaser however.

 

[Tekcirc]

Usually, Batsmen go thru their peak from 27-32 years of age. Virat has hit exactly the same timeline. But in terms of equivalent stats, He is far ahead of Tendulkar in LOI formats, in Tests he has found his grove, its only a matter of time he achieves greatness in Tests.

I think 2016, he already avged. about 76 in tests. (England series his avg went from 44 something to 50.
The only real blemish in his record is England, which I expect he will overhaul in the next visit.

 

[Tekcirc]

Sachin is better ODI batsman. Better record in WCs and against the bowling attacks of South Africa, Australia and England away, along with being equally great in setting or chasing a total. Kohli is the best ODI chaser however.

Kohli has no doubt failed to deliver at WC (ODIs only) while being a monster in T20 WC.
Lets be honest, in T20 Kohli has a Bradmanesque aura.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Sachin is better ODI batsman. Better record in WCs and against the bowling attacks of South Africa, Australia and England away, along with being equally great in setting or chasing a total. Kohli is the best ODI chaser however.

Eh Tendulkar's away records is not better than Kohli's in ODIs. Kohli has much better average in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Tendulkar has better record in England, Sri Lanka and West Indies

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli has no doubt failed to deliver at WC (ODIs only) while being a monster in T20 WC.
Lets be honest, in T20 Kohli has a Bradmanesque aura.

He does but the T20 format has very little importance today. Maybe in a decade or so, Kohli the T20 player will be looked at with the same awe that Richards the ODI player is.

 

[Bilal7]

Eh Tendulkar's away records is not better than Kohli's in ODIs. Kohli has much better average in South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Tendulkar has better record in England, Sri Lanka and West Indies

Read my post again. Kohli's record in Australia is propped up by smashing Sri Lanka over there. Against the home bowling attacks, Kohli is almost mediocre in Australia, South Africa and England.

 

[Bilal7]

Here is Kohli's record against the bowling attacks of Australia, England and South Africa, away:

Matches: 10
Average: 38
Centuries: 3
Centuries and average in won matches: 0 and 22

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=2;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

 

[Bilal7]

^ 30 matches, not 10. Apologies.

 

[Rightarmfast]

You cant compare them because the situation is totally different. When Sachin was young, the Indian team was a bunch of P#S@ies.. They lacked in confidence, motivation and application. 95% of the time, it was Tendulkar who had to handle the pressure as well as score freely.And by gosh, what a player Sachin was! People will compare and give biased opinions about richards and what not, but none of these ATG's were ever a part of a weak team like India of 90's.

The Indian team post Ganguly has been a confident bunch. That kind of pressure what Sachin took, Kohli never has and never will. So its a little more than just skill and motivation. The situation is different and not fair to compare them, but I think Sachin was something else.
Virat will be there in a few years time.