When will India take 'Azad' Kashmir?

[KingKhanWC]

Stay patient my friend. Now that Indian Kashmir has been integrated, MSD have begun working on Pak Occupied Kashmir.

What is Amithabs role in this new bollywood movie? )

You started off as trying to be mature on this forum but after getting owned, true silly colours of Hindutva have blossomed quickly.

 

[rhony]

No army in Kashmir duh.

I guess they are shelling all the way from Lahore then.

 

[szrana]

Azad Kashmir is not that important, but Gilgit Baltistan shares a border with China and Afghanistan. If India takes Gilgit, the will deny China's access to Indian ocean and share a border with Afghanistan, where they want to have influence. That is the strategic importance of Gilgit Baltistan.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Azad Kashmir is not that important, but Gilgit Baltistan shares a border with China and Afghanistan. If India takes Gilgit, the will deny China's access to Indian ocean and share a border with Afghanistan, where they want to have influence. That is the strategic importance of Gilgit Baltistan.

and china will sit and watch..

 

[xbronze]

What is Amithabs role in this new bollywood movie? )

You started off as trying to be mature on this forum but after getting owned, true silly colours of Hindutva have blossomed quickly.

Sorry, if you misunderstood my comment as trolling. I am just stating what has been reported by news media, that MSD (Modi, Shah, Doval) are working on plans for POK.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If ever there comes a time that Pakistan state has become completely alienated by the international community and us weakened militarily, I think India will indeed annex pok. Until then it's just empty rhetoric.

 

[blackanhyellow]

If ever there comes a time that Pakistan state has become completely alienated by the international community and us weakened militarily, I think India will indeed annex pok. Until then it's just empty rhetoric.

Its a possibility that India never really took any action on Kashmir and was content with a status quo, because they thought Pakistan will eventually fail as a state. Then they will come in an annex the parts they want.

May be there is a realization that if Pakistan with its weak economy, constant attacks, engaged on two fronts, bad relationship with U.S., and a hole host of other reasons hasn't failed yet, then chances are it will survive in the long run.

Now perhaps they will actually attempt to take AK.

We could see a war in the next 5 years.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Its a possibility that India never really took any action on Kashmir and was content with a status quo, because they thought Pakistan will eventually fail as a state. Then they will come in an annex the parts they want.

May be there is a realization that if Pakistan with its weak economy, constant attacks, engaged on two fronts, bad relationship with U.S., and a hole host of other reasons hasn't failed yet, then chances are it will survive in the long run.

Now perhaps they will actually attempt to take AK.

We could see a war in the next 5 years.

True that. But I don't think Indian state is interested in any part apart from Kashmir. It would become an administrative nightmare and the juice just wont be worth the squeeze. Kashmir is another matter though. Although , yes Pakistan has proved to be an exceptionally resilient state so I don't see any real attempts on Pok either despite the verbal diarrhea.

 

[blackanhyellow]

True that. But I don't think Indian state is interested in any part apart from Kashmir. It would become an administrative nightmare and the juice just wont be worth the squeeze. Kashmir is another matter though. Although , yes Pakistan has proved to be an exceptionally resilient state so I don't see any real attempts on Pok either despite the verbal diarrhea.

You are thinking from an old Indian rational thought process.

The new Indian thought process inspired by RSS ideology under the face of BJP is a bit different.

I think they are eyeing a bit more than just AK.

 

[mustang]

You are thinking from an old Indian rational thought process.

The new Indian thought process inspired by RSS ideology under the face of BJP is a bit different.

I think they are eyeing a bit more than just AK.

Seriously doubt any sane administrator from India would consider this. You will have loud fringe voices (like the ISIS propagandists who claimed caliphates in far off places, or the Gazwa-Hind voices in Pakistan). Let's consider this - hostile terrain, hostile population, low quality supply chain, risk of sanctions if pursuing active aggression beyond LOC, big diplomatic failure ... basically big overall failure ... for what? Land without much resources? Objectively why would they risk it - totally not worth the investments.

Why do some Indian voices claim it - beauty of negotiations in international diplomacy. You push for a mile, you will gain a few yards at the least. Keep pushing Pakistan for all of Kashmir while gaining politically/economically/militarily/diplomatically against them over the years, at some point Pakistan will also move towards accepting LOC as the border. India is perfectly happy accepting LOC as border but will never be the first to state that explicitly (because then you stop "pushing for a mile" in your negotiation strategy).

Why do Pakistanis in positions (those who realize India's real stance) keep claiming India wants all of Kashmir? - Well those who know the reality of India's ambitions still claim India wants all of Kashmir because they only go by official narratives on the outside, will commit political suicide if they claim otherwise, helps get resources/votes/funding for whatever establishment they have in Pakistan when they keep threat levels high, keep creating some level of false paper victory - "look they want to take Pakistan's Kashmir as well but we have never let them so far" -- reality is that every sane political/military/civil administrator on Indian side will want LOC to be international border for obvious reasons but will not say it openly in current environment.

For those Pakistanis that take my above last line and claim there are no sane leaders on the Indian side - the worst thing you can do for your country is underestimating the caliber of your opponents.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Seriously doubt any sane administrator from India would consider this. You will have loud fringe voices (like the ISIS propagandists who claimed caliphates in far off places, or the Gazwa-Hind voices in Pakistan). Let's consider this - hostile terrain, hostile population, low quality supply chain, risk of sanctions if pursuing active aggression beyond LOC, big diplomatic failure ... basically big overall failure ... for what? Land without much resources? Objectively why would they risk it - totally not worth the investments.

Why do some Indian voices claim it - beauty of negotiations in international diplomacy. You push for a mile, you will gain a few yards at the least. Keep pushing Pakistan for all of Kashmir while gaining politically/economically/militarily/diplomatically against them over the years, at some point Pakistan will also move towards accepting LOC as the border. India is perfectly happy accepting LOC as border but will never be the first to state that explicitly (because then you stop "pushing for a mile" in your negotiation strategy).

Why do Pakistanis in positions (those who realize India's real stance) keep claiming India wants all of Kashmir? - Well those who know the reality of India's ambitions still claim India wants all of Kashmir because they only go by official narratives on the outside, will commit political suicide if they claim otherwise, helps get resources/votes/funding for whatever establishment they have in Pakistan when they keep threat levels high, keep creating some level of false paper victory - "look they want to take Pakistan's Kashmir as well but we have never let them so far" -- reality is that every sane political/military/civil administrator on Indian side will want LOC to be international border for obvious reasons but will not say it openly in current environment.

For those Pakistanis that take my above last line and claim there are no sane leaders on the Indian side - the worst thing you can do for your country is underestimating the caliber of your opponents.

Who is this guy.

He speaks so much sense!

 

[Swashbuckler]

Never. Non-RSS/BJP people don't think along those lines simply put, they know our country has 10 million other real problems which need urgent fix. RSS/BJP may talk smack about these fantasy ideas but will never implement them. Even (hypothetically) if India were capable of annexing Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc (that stupid Akhand Bharat map) BJP wouldn't want to deal with extra 400 million Muslims. That would be their worst nightmare LOL, they may build imaginary castles about extra territory but with land comes people. Even here in Kashmr they have focused on land, not the people as RG pointed out.

All this bravado and fancy talk is because Indian economy is struggling, unemployment is soaring high, Modi and co want to divert public attention because they are too inept to solve those problems. India Inc. is already supper annoyed with this (latest budget was a farce with no roadmap) but they are being silenced (eg Kiran Mazumdar of Biocon Ltd), most of our mainstream media has been bought out by BJP and they aren't keen on asking the tough questions. If you follow the unbiased media sources, you will see that India is on the precipice of economic turmoil especially with regards to unemployment.

 

[Swashbuckler]

There is a popular saying on Indian social media, 'While the economy heads south, the army heads north'. That is precisely what is happening now, Modi wants a hyper-nationalistic environment in the country with polls in Maharashtra, Haryana, Jharkhand coming up. All the BJP cares about is winning elections, no other PM in the history of independent India has wasted so much time campaigning like Modi. All Modi does is campaigning and event management, whole year. Polar opposite of someone like Manmohan Singh.

Manufacturing is slowing down and companies shutting shop, rural economy distress, unemployment, no solution in sight for banking crisis, falling wages, credibility of India's official economic data at stake etc yet no space to debate. Let us celebrate over some Pyrrhic victory in JK, never mind that our constitution and federalism were torn to bits in the process. When the institutions are trampled upon, when constitution stops meaning anything, the bad precedent is set, we are already on the losing side.

 

[msaaim89]

Manufacturing is slowing down and companies shutting shop, rural economy distress, unemployment, no solution in sight for banking crisis, falling wages, credibility of India's official economic data at stake etc yet no space to debate.

Is that actually the case?

 

[Swashbuckler]

Is that actually the case?

Yes, simple google search and a few results of last 24 hours.

The Indian economy is blaring warnings, but the Modi government remains in denial
While the government was busy celebrating cosmetic measures like ‘ease of doing business’ ranking, the real economy tanked.

https://scroll.in/article/932887/the-indian-economy-is-blaring-warnings-but-the-modi-government-remains-in-denial

The downturn in the Indian economy continues

https://www.thehindu.com/data/the-downturn-in-the-indian-economy-continues/article28836274.ece

Slowdown Blues: Slump in Indian economy spreading to services sector

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/slowdown-blues/slowdown-blues-slump-in-indian-economy-spreading-to-services-sector/story/371057.html

No recovery in sight for the Indian economy

https://www.livemint.com/politics/policy/no-recovery-in-sight-for-the-indian-economy-1564557318484.html

 

[WebGuru]

Yes, simple google search and a few results of last 24 hours.

The Indian economy is blaring warnings, but the Modi government remains in denial
While the government was busy celebrating cosmetic measures like ‘ease of doing business’ ranking, the real economy tanked.

https://scroll.in/article/932887/the-indian-economy-is-blaring-warnings-but-the-modi-government-remains-in-denial

The downturn in the Indian economy continues

https://www.thehindu.com/data/the-downturn-in-the-indian-economy-continues/article28836274.ece

Slowdown Blues: Slump in Indian economy spreading to services sector

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/slowdown-blues/slowdown-blues-slump-in-indian-economy-spreading-to-services-sector/story/371057.html

No recovery in sight for the Indian economy

https://www.livemint.com/politics/policy/no-recovery-in-sight-for-the-indian-economy-1564557318484.html

But Modi supporters have been telling us 24/7 on PP that India is enjoying historical growth rate?

 

[Swashbuckler]

But Modi supporters have been telling us 24/7 on PP that India is enjoying historical growth rate?

Obviously they aren't being truthful. India's GDP growth rate has hit a new low despite fudged data, unemployment at 45 year high, our economic indices have hit record lows (sometimes negative), you can go through any number of articles and you'll see. BJP leaders are well aware of it but don't have the ability to fix it. About the Modi supporters here, you can wake up a sleeping person but not someone who is pretending to sleep. Let them live in their delusional world, when the **** hits the fan they won't be shielded.

 

[WebGuru]

Obviously they aren't being truthful. India's GDP growth rate has hit a new low despite fudged data, unemployment at 45 year high, our economic indices have hit record lows (sometimes negative), you can go through any number of articles and you'll see. BJP leaders are well aware of it but don't have the ability to fix it. About the Modi supporters here, you can wake up a sleeping person but not someone who is pretending to sleep. Let them live in their delusional world, when the **** hits the fan they won't be shielded.

I hope indians realize it before it's too late because it takes decades to get change that mindset to get nation on track again.

 

[pillionrider]

I hope indians realize it before it's too late because it takes decades to get change that mindset to get nation on track again.

It can't be explained because it defies basic logic, but the fact remains that the most rabid Modi fans are the ones who fit the 'unemployed/uncertain angry and frustrated middle class male'. The next big supporters are corporate employees who are affected by the banking situation, loans being harder to live with, work pressure increasing. Alongside this group in fandom are housewives and the 60+ lot.

It's like the harder their lives get, the more they turn to Modi for succour.

 

[BaankeJi]

This thread has nothing to do with PoK ( or "Azad Kashmir" as Pakistanis would like everyone to believe), is it?
It is a result of the bthurt caused by revoking of article 370. It has hurt so badly that op is now challenging India to attack PoK.
I would suggest first let this pain subside , then ask for another hurt.

 

[JaDed]

There is a popular saying on Indian social media, 'While the economy heads south, the army heads north'. That is precisely what is happening now, Modi wants a hyper-nationalistic environment in the country with polls in Maharashtra, Haryana, Jharkhand coming up. All the BJP cares about is winning elections, no other PM in the history of independent India has wasted so much time campaigning like Modi. All Modi does is campaigning and event management, whole year. Polar opposite of someone like Manmohan Singh.

Manufacturing is slowing down and companies shutting shop, rural economy distress, unemployment, no solution in sight for banking crisis, falling wages, credibility of India's official economic data at stake etc yet no space to debate. Let us celebrate over some Pyrrhic victory in JK, never mind that our constitution and federalism were torn to bits in the process. When the institutions are trampled upon, when constitution stops meaning anything, the bad precedent is set, we are already on the losing side.

The constitution or national law has been messed up lot of times, Rajiv Gandhi,Indira did the same.

The fault lies with us Indian voters whenever they have given absolute majority to someone they have screwed us over, we should stick to coalitions , reforms might be slow but polar views don’t get created.

Also uniform law is required so everyone can shut up about appeasements.(whats your view on this)

 

[Usman Chadda]

India has effectively accepted Azad Kashmir is Pakistan's territory.

 

[StreetSmart]

Wow this is what we call hight of day dreaming

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is not a bollywood movie like Phantom.

 

[Swashbuckler]

The constitution or national law has been messed up lot of times, Rajiv Gandhi,Indira did the same.

The fault lies with us Indian voters whenever they have given absolute majority to someone they have screwed us over, we should stick to coalitions , reforms might be slow but polar views don’t get created.

Also uniform law is required so everyone can shut up about appeasements.(whats your view on this)

View about what, are you talking about UCC? I am fine as long as due constitutional process is followed.

Even I think coalitions might work better, that has been proved in the last 5 years I guess.

 

[JaDed]

View about what, are you talking about UCC? I am fine as long as due constitutional process is followed.

Even I think coalitions might work better, that has been proved in the last 5 years I guess.

What is constitutional process? When BjP becomes majority in both houses for all you know they will pass a bill declaring India as a Hindu republic, will you say oh constitutional process was followed then? Because constitutions can be amended.

Forcing UCC without a Hindutva flavor is what is needed to shut everyone up and everyone should just accept one country one law, no beef ban, no special marriages according to your religious laws.

 

[Swashbuckler]

What is constitutional process? When BjP becomes majority in both houses for all you know they will pass a bill declaring India as a Hindu republic, will you say oh constitutional process was followed then? Because constitutions can be amended.

Forcing UCC without a Hindutva flavor is what is needed to shut everyone up and everyone should just accept one country one law, no beef ban, no special marriages according to your religious laws.

Read about the Indian constitution's basic structure doctrine. Basic features can not be amended by parliament, BJP can't declare India a Hindu nation without getting embarrassed before the Supreme Court, secularism too is a basic feature.

I support your last para, we should look to bring UCC following due process and consultation from all sides. Neither should there be a Hindutva tinge, nor should Muslim/Christian/Sikh RW views be pandered to.

 

[JaDed]

Read about the Indian constitution's basic structure doctrine. Basic features can not be amended by parliament, BJP can't declare India a Hindu nation without getting embarrassed before the Supreme Court, secularism too is a basic feature.

I support your last para, we should look to bring UCC following due process and consultation from all sides. Neither should there be a Hindutva tinge, nor should Muslim/Christian/Sikh RW views be pandered to.

Actually ,you are right till the SC doesn’t pander to the right, with Parliament trying to push for interference in the selection of SC judges you never know.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Actually ,you are right till the SC doesn’t pander to the right, with Parliament trying to push for interference in the selection of SC judges you never know.

If our judiciary becomes subservient to governments of the day none of this matters, India will be the loser. Judicial independence is vital, right now our judges may annoy us by doing needless activism (CoA ), giving poor quality judgements, delaying cases etc but I would like to believe they are still independent. This is why it was a relief when NJAC idea was dismissed and collegium system was continued.We need judicial reforms but have to ensure judiciary always remains independent.

 

[JaDed]

If our judiciary becomes subservient to governments of the day none of this matters, India will be the loser. Judicial independence is vital, right now our judges may annoy us by doing needless activism (CoA ), giving poor quality judgements, delaying cases etc but I would like to believe they are still independent. This is why it was a relief when NJAC idea was dismissed and collegium system was continued.We need judicial reforms but have to ensure judiciary always remains independent.

Yes, need reforms without the ‘closed’ aspect of it.

 

[mustang]

Who is this guy.

He speaks so much sense!

Thank you, those are kind words.

 

[rhony]

Read about the Indian constitution's basic structure doctrine. Basic features can not be amended by parliament, BJP can't declare India a Hindu nation without getting embarrassed before the Supreme Court, secularism too is a basic feature.

I support your last para, we should look to bring UCC following due process and consultation from all sides. Neither should there be a Hindutva tinge, nor should Muslim/Christian/Sikh RW views be pandered to.

You are confusing yourself between freedom of religion and secularism. Freedom of religion is a fundamental right which cannot be changed. However the word 'secular ' was added to the constitution much later in 70s. Changing that would be catastrophic for India's soft power as it was inserted in the 70s to appease the liberal world. Smart move.

 

[Swashbuckler]

You are confusing yourself between freedom of religion and secularism. Freedom of religion is a fundamental right which cannot be changed.

Am I? Where? Could you point out the exact part in my post you quoted? I was talking about the basic features of Indian Constitution (Kesavananda Bharati case).

 

[rhony]

Am I? Where? Could you point out the exact part in my post you quoted? I was talking about the basic features of Indian Constitution (Kesavananda Bharati case).

A preamble can be amended. The Bharati case you mentioned was in 1973 where supreme Court indicated the basic structure cannot be amended even through parliament. However, the word secular wasn't even part of Indian constitution until 1976. As time went on, supreme Court indicated that the secular structure as part of the basic structure. It can be challenged if there is political will as the basic structure was already changed after the 1973 ruling in 1976 when 'secular' was added. Having said that, there is absolutely no will or no reason to amend it. Democracy and secularism.are two pillars that Indian soft power is built on. With it's multicultural, multilingual background India will lose its appeal if it loses its secular status.

 

[Swashbuckler]

A preamble can be amended. The Bharati case you mentioned was in 1973 where supreme Court indicated the basic structure cannot be amended even through parliament. However, the word secular wasn't even part of Indian constitution until 1976. As time went on, supreme Court indicated that the secular structure as part of the basic structure. It can be challenged if there is political will as the basic structure was already changed after the 1973 ruling in 1976 when 'secular' was added. Having said that, there is absolutely no will or no reason to amend it. Democracy and secularism.are two pillars that Indian soft power is built on. With it's multicultural, multilingual background India will lose its appeal if it loses its secular status.

We are in agreement that India's secular status must remain.

Kesavananda Bharati case (1973) mentioned secularism as a basic feature even though it was put in preamble only in 1976. Ambedkar didn't insert "secular" because he thought it was self-evident. Judges also rely on debates of constituent assembly where the drafting took shape.

 

[bala977]

Yes, simple google search and a few results of last 24 hours.

The Indian economy is blaring warnings, but the Modi government remains in denial
While the government was busy celebrating cosmetic measures like ‘ease of doing business’ ranking, the real economy tanked.

https://scroll.in/article/932887/the-indian-economy-is-blaring-warnings-but-the-modi-government-remains-in-denial

The downturn in the Indian economy continues

https://www.thehindu.com/data/the-downturn-in-the-indian-economy-continues/article28836274.ece

Slowdown Blues: Slump in Indian economy spreading to services sector

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/slowdown-blues/slowdown-blues-slump-in-indian-economy-spreading-to-services-sector/story/371057.html

No recovery in sight for the Indian economy

https://www.livemint.com/politics/policy/no-recovery-in-sight-for-the-indian-economy-1564557318484.html

So have you checked the arc of China, rest of APAC, Eurozone and US? This is a world wide trend, and given the tight trade integration globally, it us hard for one country to buck the trend UNLESS you are starting from zero ...

 

[sweep_shot]

At least three civilians died and eight others were injured in Azad Jammu and Kashmir after Indian troops resorted to “indiscriminate” shelling from across the Line of Control (LoC) on Tuesday, officials said.

All casualties occurred in different villages of Neza Pir sector of Haveli district, “where shelling began at about 12:30pm and lasted for four-and-a-half hours without any pause”, said Muhammad Zaheer, a disaster management officer at the office of Haveli deputy commissioner.

“They used mortars as well as medium artillery, targeting civilian populations in Kairni, Rakh Chikhri, Chanjal Bala, Moohri and Mandhaar villages. The shelling was intense and indiscriminate,” he added.

Khalid Mahmood Kiani, a police official based in district headquarters Forward Kahuta, told Dawn that shells hit several houses.

In one house in Kairni Mohri village, shelling caused the death of three people and injuries to another two, he said.

The deceased were identified as Ghulam Muhammad, 54, his 12-year-old daughter Maryam Bibi, and 10-year-old Haider Ali.

Ghulam Muhammad’s wife Rehmat Jan and another family member, Muhammad Manzoor, were injured, the official said.

In the same village, Naseeb Jan, 33, and her 4-year-old son Sarfraz were also injured.

Elsewhere, Amna, 22, and Safeena Bibi, 20, sustained injuries in Mandhaar village and Naseeb Jan, 21, and Farri Bibi, 18, were injured in Kairni Wasti village.

All the injured were shifted to a military-run health facility in Forward Kahuta for treatment.

In the neighbouring Poonch district, a girls higher secondary school was twice targeted by the Indian army with small arms in Tetrinote village of tehsil Hajira but there were no losses, a police official said.

“They resorted to burst firing first at 10am and then again at 12 noon. However, soon after the first attack, the school was shut and students and teachers were sent home,” the official added.

In a statement, AJK Prime Minister Raja Farooq Haider strongly condemned today's Indian shelling targeting civilian populations.

“I express my heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families and pay tributes to the people living along the ceasefire line (LoC) for their exemplary courage and bravery,” he said.

The prime minister asked the civil administration in all areas along the LoC to remain on high alert “as the wicked and cruel enemy could resort to any misadventure out of frustration”.

The heavily militarised LoC which splits the disputed region of Kashmir between India and Pakistan has been constantly witnessing ceasefire violations by the Indian army in a serious breach of a November 2003 truce agreement.

According to Syed Shahid Mohyiddin Qadri, secretary civil defence and state disaster management authority, the latest ceasefire violations have pushed the civilian death toll in the current year to 47.

Apart from them, another 236 civilians sustained injuries in the ongoing year, he said.

Qadri said some 50 houses had also been destroyed and 369 houses and nine shops partially damaged due to Indian shelling.

Aside from the above, 11 cattle sheds, four schools, two health facilities, one mosque and 12 vehicles also suffered partial damages.

Link: https://www.dawn.com/news/1511002/3...red-in-indiscriminate-firing-by-indian-troops.

 

[daytrader]

Jammu and Kashmir: NIA to Take Over Probe in Sunjwan Encounter, Govt Says Specialised Agency Needed

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) will take over the investigation into the attack by militants at the Sunjwan army camp on the outskirts of Jammu early on Friday, following which one security force personnel was killed and nine suffered injuries during a gunfight.

Top government sources told CNN-News18 that the NIA will be probing the Sunjwan case, the notification for which will soon be issued. The scope of the investigation needed a serious and specialised agency, the sources added.

Earlier in the day, an NIA team reached Sunjwan area after a CISF vehicle carrying 15 personnel was attacked by terrorists two days ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Jammu. In an ensuing gunfight, one security personnel was killed while nine were injured.

Soon after the attack, security forces gunned down two militants while two guns and a satellite phone were recovered.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/sunjwan-encounter-nia-probe-jammu-kashmir-5035225.html

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Why have Indian Muslims been so subservient?. Muslims have been fully integrating so is to suddenly decide they want to become pure is what's resulting in genocide.

The same Indian Muslims opposed to Pakistan, will they now take up arms ?.

 

[Hitman]

You really believe IOK will turn into Switzerland now? lol Im sorry to say but the level of violence and bloodsheed you will see in IOK in the next few years will be unprecidented. Bookmark this post and revisit in 2022.

You haven't given any real reason why India dont want to take back their own land.

Sure, I bookmarked your post, and it's nearing end of 2022. What bloodshed happened?

 

[PakLFC]

The answer to the question is when Pak takes IoK

 

[speed_thrills]

Said it before will say it again, neither India nor Pakistan has the will to act decisively. They will just cry wolf till eternity.

 

[daytrader]

Indian minister speaks of annexing Gilgit-Baltistan

NEW DELHI: Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said on Thursday he hoped to have Gilgit-Baltistan as part of India to complete the mission the Modi government began by annexing held Kashmir in Aug 2019.

Mr Singh is visiting the occupied region to celebrate the landing of Indian forces in the state a day after New Delhi allegedly signed the Instrument of Accession with its Hindu ruler on Oct 26, 1947. Pakistan disputes the narrative.

Mr Singh’s claims are linked to a 1994 resolution on Gilgit and Baltistan passed by the Indian parliament when Narasimha Rao was the prime minister, but it also follows two events that ruffled feathers in New Delhi.

The first was the unusual visit by Donald Blome, the US ambassador in Islam*abad, to Azad Kashmir recently. The move was followed the same day by German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock expressing her country’s concern over the Kashmir dispute.

India promptly and sharply criticised the US and Germany for the back-to-back moves. “I’m honoured to visit during my first trip to AJK,” the US embassy in Islamabad quoted Blome as saying on Twitter.

Rajnath Singh, who was advising Russian President Vladimir Putin on the risks of nuclear war the other day, appeared less bothered about the South Asian nuclear rivalry.

“Kashmir and Ladakh are set on a new path of development and prosperity (post-Aug 5, 2019). This is just the beginning. The mission will complete only when Gilgit-Baltistan and areas of Kashmir (under Pakistan’s control) reunite with India.

“Also, when justice is delivered to the refugees of 1947 and they get their land and homes back. The day is not far away,” reports quoted Mr Singh as saying.

The defence minister was speaking at an event in Budgam to remember the landing of Indian soldiers in Srinagar on Oct 27, 1947.

DAWN

 

[ahsan17]

Indian minister speaks of annexing Gilgit-Baltistan

NEW DELHI: Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said on Thursday he hoped to have Gilgit-Baltistan as part of India to complete the mission the Modi government began by annexing held Kashmir in Aug 2019.

Mr Singh is visiting the occupied region to celebrate the landing of Indian forces in the state a day after New Delhi allegedly signed the Instrument of Accession with its Hindu ruler on Oct 26, 1947. Pakistan disputes the narrative.

Mr Singh’s claims are linked to a 1994 resolution on Gilgit and Baltistan passed by the Indian parliament when Narasimha Rao was the prime minister, but it also follows two events that ruffled feathers in New Delhi.

The first was the unusual visit by Donald Blome, the US ambassador in Islam*abad, to Azad Kashmir recently. The move was followed the same day by German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock expressing her country’s concern over the Kashmir dispute.

India promptly and sharply criticised the US and Germany for the back-to-back moves. “I’m honoured to visit during my first trip to AJK,” the US embassy in Islamabad quoted Blome as saying on Twitter.

Rajnath Singh, who was advising Russian President Vladimir Putin on the risks of nuclear war the other day, appeared less bothered about the South Asian nuclear rivalry.

“Kashmir and Ladakh are set on a new path of development and prosperity (post-Aug 5, 2019). This is just the beginning. The mission will complete only when Gilgit-Baltistan and areas of Kashmir (under Pakistan’s control) reunite with India.

“Also, when justice is delivered to the refugees of 1947 and they get their land and homes back. The day is not far away,” reports quoted Mr Singh as saying.

The defence minister was speaking at an event in Budgam to remember the landing of Indian soldiers in Srinagar on Oct 27, 1947.

DAWN

Countless time just on this forum, some Indian posters have claimed India is not a threat to Pakistan and has no intention of ever launching an invasion, yadi yada. Time and time again they have been proven wrong.

 

[GreenBee]

Even if India wants it, I don't see this happening in next 25 years atleast. Indian progress has been too slow so far to have any such dreams.

 

[Hextro]

Right now they should focus on trying to replace IOK's local population with randoms from the rest of India. Limit their ambitions to crying about the so-called "Pundits".

 

[Realromeo]

Whoever makes any move into advancing and "take control" of another territory will be destroyed by the other side. Everyone knows this.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Countless time just on this forum, some Indian posters have claimed India is not a threat to Pakistan and has no intention of ever launching an invasion, yadi yada. Time and time again they have been proven wrong.

The Indian defence minister is either a complete fool or is fooling his population.

Its been 70 years, India has failed to take Azad Kashmir but this clown wants a war to take Gilgit-Balistan

I think he will have some lentils and salad followed by a good nights sleep and wake up in reality.

 

[Poseidon]

Whoever makes any move into advancing and "take control" of another territory will be destroyed by the other side. Everyone knows this.

our missiles dont work.

 

[PakLFC]

India will start a war that will get totally out of hand. They will live to regret it, guaranteed!

 

[wasim-fan]

India can't and won't take it. Kashmir issue is done. No side cannot do anything at this point. It's only question of when the sides just settle and move on. But there are more stakeholders involved than the two countries involved. It will not be allowed to settle.

 

[MP2011]

The Indian defence minister is either a complete fool or is fooling his population.

Bit of both. We are extremely unfortunate to have someone as thick as him as our DM.

 

[RajBan]

It's election time in Gujarat and Himachal. So few cheesy dialogues are need of the hour.

 

[Realromeo]

our missiles dont work.

Who are you ? Pakistani ? Don't worry, our 3000 T-90 Tanks can be blown up by simple RPG into orbit. Just check whats happening in Ukraine.

 

[RexRex]

Soon. [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[KingKhanWC]

Soon. [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

What is the release date of this Bollywood blockbuster?

 

[RexRex]

What is the release date of this Bollywood blockbuster?

Stay tuned.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Congratulations to our Kashmiri sister for this achievement. We are always with you. Kashmir will remain in our heart as the great epicentre of Sanatan Dharma

https://twitter.com/x/status/1873238637279596947

 

[Bhaijaan]

It’s not a matter of time brother

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Stay tuned.

 

[deltexas]

Time for what ?? No gov in Ind wants to take POK back . They have to give a token political speech about claiming it back or else its political suicide. Every Tom D and Harry knows that. Even Pak cant keep POK from its differing factions. For Ind it was always about J&K which the Cong messed up for decades but now its a closed chapter . J&K is officially an integral part of India . Chapter closed.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Time for what ?? No gov in Ind wants to take POK back . They have to give a token political speech about claiming it back or else its political suicide. Every Tom D and Harry knows that. Even Pak cant keep POK from its differing factions. For Ind it was always about J&K which the Cong messed up for decades but now its a closed chapter . J&K is officially an integral part of India . Chapter closed.

Please speak for yourself. This view does not represent the view of Bharat and its people. The entire Kashmir is an integral part of our nation and until we do not secure the remaining portions from Pakistan, China we will not settle. We are a practical nation; we are aware of power dynamics and have avoided going to full fledged war to achieve this target but we will strike a decisive blow when the time is right.

You are free to present your personal thoughts on the matter. If you want to accept Islam and let go lands to neighbouring nations it’s your personal wish. But that’s not what we Bharatiyas feel.

 

[deltexas]

Please speak for yourself. This view does not represent the view of Bharat and its people. The entire Kashmir is an integral part of our nation and until we do not secure the remaining portions from Pakistan, China we will not settle. We are a practical nation; we are aware of power dynamics and have avoided going to full fledged war to achieve this target but we will strike a decisive blow when the time is right.

You are free to present your personal thoughts on the matter. If you want to accept Islam and let go lands to neighbouring nations it’s your personal wish. But that’s not what we Bharatiyas feel.

Well I am just being realistic. Ind has no real appetite to get back POK as its not something Ind should be wasting their resources now especially with a hostile pop there. No BJP leader realistically wants to explore a military option for that. Wars are terrible, they set your economy back decades and terrible loss of life. Heck, even the superpower US could not hold on to territory in Afg and Iraq as it is so expensive. And Ind is still a developing country FWIW. And forget about getting any land from China. China is so far ahead of Ind , its actually unfair to China to even compare it to Ind. I like the current BJP policy on China - dont anatagonize it too much, but dont completely bend over either , reduce border fights to minimum, continue to engage in talks or diplomacy . Plus J&K gives a natural barrier against foreign countries. POK exposes you to Afg Iran etc and to terrorist groups.

And yes these are my personal views and a lot of Ind folks views as well. Giving statements is easy, but when it comes to execution, the reality kicks in. And what is this accepting Islam thing ?? C'mon Bhaijaan - I know you are getting emotional here but you also have to think the ground realities. Improve Ind before any thoughts on POK..

 

[Bhaijaan]

Well I am just being realistic. Ind has no real appetite to get back POK as its not something Ind should be wasting their resources now especially with a hostile pop there. No BJP leader realistically wants to explore a military option for that. Wars are terrible, they set your economy back decades and terrible loss of life. Heck, even the superpower US could not hold on to territory in Afg and Iraq as it is so expensive. And Ind is still a developing country FWIW. And forget about getting any land from China. China is so far ahead of Ind , its actually unfair to China to even compare it to Ind. I like the current BJP policy on China - dont anatagonize it too much, but dont completely bend over either , reduce border fights to minimum, continue to engage in talks or diplomacy . Plus J&K gives a natural barrier against foreign countries. POK exposes you to Afg Iran etc and to terrorist groups.

And yes these are my personal views and a lot of Ind folks views as well. Giving statements is easy, but when it comes to execution, the reality kicks in. And what is this accepting Islam thing ?? C'mon Bhaijaan - I know you are getting emotional here but you also have to think the ground realities. Improve Ind before any thoughts on POK..

I respect your personal opinion but you made it seem like the national opinion in the post above which is untrue.

Majority of Bharat badmouths Nehru to this day for his weak leadership in 1947 in letting go a chunk of Kashmir.

To this day if any country shows a map of our country without the entire Kashmir as part of Bharat we take offense to it.

Reclaiming the entire Kashmir is very much a priority for us. How we do it remains to be seen. So far the tactic has been that let Pakistan destroy itself. Why go to war with a country determined to break itself apart. When the right time comes we will take what always belonged to us.

Some of you all will gladly give away half of our country on a platter to hostile neighbours it seems. Where’s the backbone? Are you a Muslim or about to become one?

 

[RexRex]

Please speak for yourself. This view does not represent the view of Bharat and its people. The entire Kashmir is an integral part of our nation and until we do not secure the remaining portions from Pakistan, China we will not settle. We are a practical nation; we are aware of power dynamics and have avoided going to full fledged war to achieve this target but we will strike a decisive blow when the time is right.

You are free to present your personal thoughts on the matter. If you want to accept Islam and let go lands to neighbouring nations it’s your personal wish. But that’s not what we Bharatiyas feel.

deltexas is right, nobody cares about PoK anymore .. only hyper bhakts do. The mature people have moved on and are more interested in developing their economies and dealing with looming cataclysm that is AI. Pakistani leadership is not mature so they keep harping on about Kashmir but I expect the Indians to be realistic on this issue.

 

[RexRex]

I was just messing around with kkwc.

 

[Bhaijaan]

deltexas is right, nobody cares about PoK anymore .. only hyper bhakts do. The mature people have moved on and are more interested in developing their economies and dealing with looming cataclysm that is AI. Pakistani leadership is not mature so they keep harping on about Kashmir but I expect the Indians to be realistic on this issue.

And who are these people?
We would like to see their papers first.

We are aware that roughly 35-50 crore anti nationals live in this country belonging to one major religion and a few other sects. If it was down to them we would be handing out territories to our neighbours on a platter and accepting a foreign religion. Well this is what was happening under Congress’ Muslim rule.

Luckily the nationalist Bharatiyas outdo the anti nationals in terms of financial and political clout.

 

[RexRex]

And who are these people?
We would like to see their papers first.

We are aware that roughly 35-50 crore anti nationals live in this country belonging to one major religion and a few other sects. If it was down to them we would be handing out territories to our neighbours on a platter and accepting a foreign religion. Well this is what was happening under Congress’ Muslim rule.

Luckily the nationalist Bharatiyas outdo the anti nationals in terms of financial and political clout.

Take a poll of the indian posters on PP and see how many of them care about PoK. I bet you most couldn't care less. You can count them on one hand, including you.

 

[Local.Dada]

Take a poll of the indian posters on PP and see how many of them care about PoK. I bet you most couldn't care less. You can count them on one hand, including you.

I think most times the idea of the land is more appealing than the people living in it.

On paper having full Kashmir sounds good but in reality it would add more radicalized people who were kept backward and illeerate and no real life skills that will further burden the country. I am assuming all the cultural crafts, arts etc have already disappeared due to extreme religiosity.

 

[RexRex]

I think most times the idea of the land is more appealing than the people living in it.

On paper having full Kashmir sounds good but in reality it would add more radicalized people who were kept backward and illeerate and no real life skills that will further burden the country. I am assuming all the cultural crafts, arts etc have already disappeared due to extreme religiosity.

Also, given that bhaijaan has expressed his reservations against Indian muslims for their lack of patriotism & assimilation, it's odd that he wants PoK annexed since that would add to the muslim demographics of India by about 5 million.

Unless, he wants to evict the people of PoK by force ala Gaza style, to mainland Pakistan once the territory is acquired. Maybe @Bhaijaan can clarify.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Also, given that bhaijaan has expressed his reservations against Indian muslims for their lack of patriotism & assimilation, it's odd that he wants PoK annexed since that would add to the muslim demographics of India by about 5 million.

Unless, he wants to evict the people of PoK by force ala Gaza style, to mainland Pakistan once the territory is acquired. Maybe @Bhaijaan can clarify.

People of the Azad Kashmir have diverged from mainstream Indian culture for many centuries now. They will not be able to relate to culture in North India. So forget South India or Eastern India.

On paper it looks feasible to annex POK. Reality is very different. The only difference is they will have better standards of living if they join India. Culturally, they will be too different to the average Indian.

 

[deltexas]

I respect your personal opinion but you made it seem like the national opinion in the post above which is untrue.

Majority of Bharat badmouths Nehru to this day for his weak leadership in 1947 in letting go a chunk of Kashmir.

To this day if any country shows a map of our country without the entire Kashmir as part of Bharat we take offense to it.

Reclaiming the entire Kashmir is very much a priority for us. How we do it remains to be seen. So far the tactic has been that let Pakistan destroy itself. Why go to war with a country determined to break itself apart. When the right time comes we will take what always belonged to us.

Some of you all will gladly give away half of our country on a platter to hostile neighbours it seems. Where’s the backbone? Are you a Muslim or about to become one?

Nehru messed up bigtime starting with the partition, kashmir issue and ind China war. Yes the ind people may "want" pok but when the harsh realities sink in they will realize the detrimental effects of war. Nobody wants to give away land to neighbors. Nehru did it during 1947 partition. Where was the backbone then? S

 

[deltexas]

I respect your personal opinion but you made it seem like the national opinion in the post above which is untrue.

Majority of Bharat badmouths Nehru to this day for his weak leadership in 1947 in letting go a chunk of Kashmir.

To this day if any country shows a map of our country without the entire Kashmir as part of Bharat we take offense to it.

Reclaiming the entire Kashmir is very much a priority for us. How we do it remains to be seen. So far the tactic has been that let Pakistan destroy itself. Why go to war with a country determined to break itself apart. When the right time comes we will take what always belonged to us.

Some of you all will gladly give away half of our country on a platter to hostile neighbours it seems. Where’s the backbone? Are you a Muslim or about to become one?

Nehru messed up bigtime starting with the partition, kashmir issue and ind China war. Yes the ind people may "want" pok but when the harsh realities sink in they will realize the detrimental effects of war. Nobody wants to give away land to neighbors. Nehru did it during 1947 partition. Where was the backbone then? Where was the backbone then? And not sure why you claim I'm something or become something? On the contrary you want pak and ban to join Ind for Akhand bharat. Hows that even possible? It will be a civil war. Partition is done and dusted. Abrogation of 370 was a great historic correction of Nehrus blunder by Modi and bjp. But trying to take over a hostile pok is not worth it with the problems it entails.