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Which bowler would you prefer between Yasir Shah and Ravichandran Ashwin in Tests?

Who would you prefer between Yasir Shah and Ravichandran Ashwin (Tests)?

  • Yasir Shah

    Votes: 118 62.1%

  • Ravichandran Ashwin

    Votes: 72 37.9%
  • Total voters
    190
Tamil payan panna santhosham than [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION]
 
Obviously Ashwin. He's way ahead of yasir Shah. At best yasir is on par or slightly better than Mishra. Nothing special.
 
Ashwin the batsman is better than Pakistan test openers, Ashwin as a bowler has dethroned best Pakistan has to offer. Ashwin the fielder is Inzi 2.0 (slow but safe hands in slips), Ashwin is a captaincy material, very astute and media savvy.

Ashwin is twice the 'cricketer', it's no contest.
 
Square Drive said:
Yasir will be back with a bang.

7 wickets at Edgbaston, boys. :yasir
Click to expand...

If we had to bowl in the 4th innings he could have been a handful. Hope our batters can give us enough runs for Yasir to out some pressure on England in the 3rd innings
 
Hasn't Ashwin just taken 1-114 in a 3rd innings where the match situation had been practically impossible to not win from? World's number one bowler indeed. Pants
 
James said:
Hasn't Ashwin just taken 1-114 in a 3rd innings where the match situation had been practically impossible to not win from? World's number one bowler indeed. Pants
Click to expand...

His fifer in the first innings was the reason the match was practically impossible to not win.
 
Hasan123 said:
If we had to bowl in the 4th innings he could have been a handful. Hope our batters can give us enough runs for Yasir to out some pressure on England in the 3rd innings
Click to expand...

Don't worry, he's done step 1 right, which is containing the English batsmen and gaining their respect once more.

Step 2 is fully dismantling them, which shall be done in due course. :yasir
 
Square Drive said:
Don't worry, he's done step 1 right, which is containing the English batsmen and gaining their respect once more.

Step 2 is fully dismantling them, which shall be done in due course. :yasir
Click to expand...

Yes, its amazing for a leg break bowler to have this much control especially in conditions he's not use too.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
Ashwin the batsman is better than Pakistan test openers, Ashwin as a bowler has dethroned best Pakistan has to offer. Ashwin the fielder is Inzi 2.0 (slow but safe hands in slips), Ashwin is a captaincy material, very astute and media savvy.

Ashwin is twice the 'cricketer', it's no contest.
Click to expand...

And keeper? :(
 
Prince_ said:
Obviously Ashwin. He's way ahead of yasir Shah. At best yasir is on par or slightly better than Mishra. Nothing special.
Click to expand...

Mishra is rubbish bowler because west indies are generally very poor against leg spinner but mishra fail to create any sort of impact in series so but agreed Ashwin is better bowler at the moment
 
#GreenRoars said:
And keeper? :(
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Ravi Ashwin has a good chance to perform better than likes of Kamran Akmal in a wicket keeping role. At least he won't show goofy grin each time he drops a catch. IMO Zulqarnain Haider was best Pakistani WK after Moin/Latif. Too bad he was mentally upset. Sarfraz has shown to be as good or as bad as Akmal so far. He is not even rated by likes of Rameez Raja. India's second tier part time Rahul Dravid was better than most Pakistani WKs in last 20 years.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
That's the reason for the negativity, you'd have been much more optimistic back in '03 after the Invincibles season.
Click to expand...

I haven't been the same since the Mohali semifinal in 2011.

That was the last time I was optimistic about Pakistan cricket.

That defeat changed me and I haven't been the same since.
 
Bump.

Think this would be a good time to revisit this thread.

I think Yasir's fielding puts him on top, nah? :yasir
 
Square Drive said:
Bump.

Think this would be a good time to revisit this thread.

I think Yasir's fielding puts him on top, nah? :yasir
Click to expand...

Indians will respond that Ashwin is a better batsman. Ashwin isn't a bad fielder, India place him slips sometimes.
 
Ashwin as a spinner alone edges Yasir. If you bring his batting into the picture, no contest as to who's more valuable to the team.
 
Major said:
right arm off break any day
Click to expand...

I disagree. Ashwin is probably bowling with more control so looks better and Yasir at times bowls too many hit me deliveries, but Leggies with equal skill is better than offie. Just my opinion.
 
Nice thread and the perfect place to bring up Ashwin's success on pitches that don't break up on day 2.
Forget Yasir I'd take Mishra, Rashid and even Moin Ali ahead of Ashwin on proper test wickets.
It's high time we had a closer look at Ashwin's action too. Noticed how he's gone a lot more orthodox with his deliveries, rarely do we see any variation the other way. He's smart if he's stopped bowling his one that goes the other way - would still like his action checked against all the variations he bowls
 
If we are including things like fielding and batting, then Ashwin is ahead by a large distance.
 
113-2

Ashwin any day over this overrated Pakistani bowler(?)....

Ajmal is far better than shah.... (even better than ashwin)
 
The comparison between the two is a bit similar to Murali vs Warne...

However, Murali legitimacy as a bowler has always been questioned while Ash has clean action.

Ash would get lots of easy wickets like murali got in favourably conditions while Yasir , being a leggie, could do well everywhere.

Both are lucky not to face a batting line up equivalent of what India had in Murali-Warne era.
 
savecricket said:
Nice thread and the perfect place to bring up Ashwin's success on pitches that don't break up on day 2.
Forget Yasir I'd take Mishra, Rashid and even Moin Ali ahead of Ashwin on proper test wickets.
It's high time we had a closer look at Ashwin's action too. Noticed how he's gone a lot more orthodox with his deliveries, rarely do we see any variation the other way. He's smart if he's stopped bowling his one that goes the other way - would still like his action checked against all the variations he bowls
Click to expand...

He has realised that current crop batsmen are hopeless against regular off spin. No need for too many variation against such incapable set of batsmen.

Pakistan is currently best batting line up against spinners and got destroyed by Rashid, Bishoo, Tahir on pitches which are far from raging turners. This is the current state of batting line ups today.
 
On another note, it's brilliant that we have Indians and Pakistanis fighting over who is the best bowler in the world and who is the best test team in the world. It doesn't happen too often and it's reminiscent of the old rivalry when the two sides used to meet often. Also it's brilliant to see two Asian sides and two old rivals jostling for the top spot in world cricket which is rare.

Hopefully Babar steps up and we have fights over which set of batsmen are better as well - Aslam/Azhar/Babar/Asad or Rahul/Pujara/Kohli/Rahane.
 
Ab Fan said:
The comparison between the two is a bit similar to Murali vs Warne...

However, Murali legitimacy as a bowler has always been questioned while Ash has clean action.

Ash would get lots of easy wickets like murali got in favourably conditions while Yasir , being a leggie, could do well everywhere.

Both are lucky not to face a batting line up equivalent of what India had in Murali-Warne era.
Click to expand...

Warne couldn't do anything in spin conditions as well as his home against the best spin playing batting team(India) also nothing great in Windies.

If a batsman had such an average against a country he would be considered mediocre and not an ATG (inspite of that Ponting is considered ATG).

PP seems to have diff criteria for South Asian players and others.
 
In regards only to bowling would prefer Ash in spinning conditions,even if ball is remotely doing anything. On all other pitches i would say Yasir but as n all rounder considering we need the extra test bat Ash it will be.
 
AlizeeFan said:
He has realised that current crop batsmen are hopeless against regular off spin. No need for too many variation against such incapable set of batsmen.

Pakistan is currently best batting line up against spinners and got destroyed by Rashid, Bishoo, Tahir on pitches which are far from raging turners. This is the current state of batting line ups today.
Click to expand...

What about the other Tests on that England tour? Craig too got 7 in one innings but got thrashed in the rest of the innings. Pakistan needs to have atleast 1 collapse per series, it's mandatory. See the last day of the 3rd Pak-Eng Test as an example.
 
JaDed said:
Warne couldn't do anything in spin conditions as well as his home against the best spin playing batting team(India) also nothing great in Windies.

If a batsman had such an average against a country he would be considered mediocre and not an ATG (inspite of that Ponting is considered ATG).

PP seems to have diff criteria for South Asian players and others.
Click to expand...

Warne struggled only in India ( every one has one bogey team) but has performed everywhere in the world.India had the best batting line up of all time in his era. No current team can match that.Even Murali struggled against them.

Warne avgs 25 playing his home games in non spin friendly Australian conditions.He is an ATG( a top tier one) cricketer. No questions on that.
 
street cricketer said:
On another note, it's brilliant that we have Indians and Pakistanis fighting over who is the best bowler in the world and who is the best test team in the world. It doesn't happen too often and it's reminiscent of the old rivalry when the two sides used to meet often. Also it's brilliant to see two Asian sides and two old rivals jostling for the top spot in world cricket which is rare.

Hopefully Babar steps up and we have fights over which set of batsmen are better as well - Aslam/Azhar/Babar/Asad or Rahul/Pujara/Kohli/Rahane.
Click to expand...

Ashwin has just moved another level over the past 6 months he is quite ahead of Yasir now though Jadeja being such a great support does help Ashwin a lot.
 
Yasir should be ashamed of his 7230 vs Windies where Bishoo outbowled him against a stronger batting line up.
 
Xoib said:
Ashwin has just moved another level over the past 6 months he is quite ahead of Yasir now though Jadeja being such a great support does help Ashwin a lot.
Click to expand...

Spinners develop and mature with experience, it's generally the case with any player but more so in the case of spinners. Ashwin was quite raw when he debuted and had only two deliveries in his arsenal - the off spinner and the carrom ball. And his sudden success with the carrom ball against T20 giants like Gayle in the IPL got him excited and made him overuse it at the test level. He was basically trying to become a mystery spinner but was failing at it. Your variation becomes a surprise only as long as it remains a "variation" and not when it becomes your stock delivery (then you become another Dernbach). After the nightmare test at Johannesburg, he was dropped from the Indian team for 8-10 matches and didn't get to play much of the overseas round of tours. But that break turned out to be very helpful to his career and he resorted to orthodox off spin bowling and started using the conventional off break as the stock delivery more and more while using the carrom ball sparingly, mostly against tailenders. Later he developed good loop and dip to his deliveries. Now he has added the drifter to his arsenal when the wicket isn't quite conductive to turn like the one at Kolkata against NZ (bowled with the seam in a horizontal position and ball rotating in a vertical axis as opposed to the slanted one with the conventional off break). He used to be very good on turning pitches but struggled on flat conditions before. But he has started bowling well deceiving batsmen in the air more nowadays and I feel that he is at the peak of his powers now. He is now trying out the leg break but he has been failing miserably at it though, only bowls half trackers when he tries the leg break.

Anyway, the point is that spinners develop with more and more experience. Yasir has played just half the number of matches as Ashwin and his career has been filled with only successes until now unlike Ashwin who faced quite a few difficulties early on in his career. He is going to become only better with difficult matches and it's wrong to write off him after one or two tough matches. I think he can get even better - he can develop his googly more and even work on the conventional leg break a bit more. He is very successful as it is, but you should keep developing so that you do not get left behind. Also I feel he needs a good partner to work with. It's amazing how Pakistan just select one pure spinner in Asia, it results in the team being overdependent on Yasir. The team will struggle when Yasir has an off day, last match could have gotten over by the end of first session had Yasir been at his usual best. You can see the impact Jadeja has on Ashwin. He is a metronome with his accuracy and hardly ever goes for runs. So he keeps runs tight at one end and that allows Ashwin to experiment with his line and length even if he goes for a bit more runs. Someone who is an accurate and a tight spinner must partner Yasir at the other end and that will make him even more potent. At the moment, Yasir has to share the entire burden of spin bowling in the team and it's taking some toll on him. He may find it difficult to operate alone against stronger spin playing sides and I think Pakistan needs to select an another pure spinner for Yasir to form a partnership with.
 
Ab Fan said:
Warne struggled only in India ( every one has one bogey team) but has performed everywhere in the world.India had the best batting line up of all time in his era. No current team can match that.Even Murali struggled against them.

Warne avgs 25 playing his home games in non spin friendly Australian conditions.He is an ATG( a top tier one) cricketer. No questions on that.
Click to expand...

He struggled in Australia against India as well(avg is 50-60),averages almost 40 in Windies too.
 
Xoib said:
Yasir should be ashamed of his 7230 vs Windies where Bishoo outbowled him against a stronger batting line up.
Click to expand...

I believe that Yasir got much work to do but we all know that Bishoo was only able to out-bowl him due to the unprecendent love of our batsmen.
 
Sachin136 said:
If we are including things like fielding and batting, then Ashwin is ahead by a large distance.
Click to expand...

When Ashwin-fans start bringing in batting and fielding (Shah is the better fielder quite easily) in a debate about the quality of two spinners, you know that Shah is better.
 
Ashwin on current form is way ahead of Yasir. Its no matte of being Pakistani and Indian, we are talking about cricket here.
 
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If Pakistan had Ashwin in their last match, they would win by an inning.
 
Bilal7 said:
Neutrals will say Yasir (expat, India-loving Indians posing as Saffers and Kiwis don't count).
Click to expand...

I'm a Pakistani and in my opinion Ashwin is way ahead of Yasir. I would pick Ashwin over Yasir in a heartbeat in my team, easy decision.
 
Zak_Fan said:
If Pakistan had Ashwin in their last match, they would win by an inning.
Click to expand...

They would have probably still won courtesy of Amir and Riaz but Ashwin would have been dropped for Zulfiqar Babar for the second match.
 
Bilal7 said:
They would have probably still won courtesy of Amir and Riaz but Ashwin would have been dropped for Zulfiqar Babar for the second match.
Click to expand...

Would have contradicted this comment if it came from someone else, but it is quite pointless to argue with [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] bhai, specially when it comes to Pakistani spinners.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Would have contradicted this comment if it came from someone else, but it is quite pointless to argue with [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] bhai, specially when it comes to Pakistani spinners.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you didn't. Mine was a passing comment correcting your delusions and nothing more.
 
street cricketer said:
Spinners develop and mature with experience, it's generally the case with any player but more so in the case of spinners. Ashwin was quite raw when he debuted and had only two deliveries in his arsenal - the off spinner and the carrom ball. And his sudden success with the carrom ball against T20 giants like Gayle in the IPL got him excited and made him overuse it at the test level. He was basically trying to become a mystery spinner but was failing at it. Your variation becomes a surprise only as long as it remains a "variation" and not when it becomes your stock delivery (then you become another Dernbach). After the nightmare test at Johannesburg, he was dropped from the Indian team for 8-10 matches and didn't get to play much of the overseas round of tours. But that break turned out to be very helpful to his career and he resorted to orthodox off spin bowling and started using the conventional off break as the stock delivery more and more while using the carrom ball sparingly, mostly against tailenders. Later he developed good loop and dip to his deliveries. Now he has added the drifter to his arsenal when the wicket isn't quite conductive to turn like the one at Kolkata against NZ (bowled with the seam in a horizontal position and ball rotating in a vertical axis as opposed to the slanted one with the conventional off break). He used to be very good on turning pitches but struggled on flat conditions before. But he has started bowling well deceiving batsmen in the air more nowadays and I feel that he is at the peak of his powers now. He is now trying out the leg break but he has been failing miserably at it though, only bowls half trackers when he tries the leg break.

Anyway, the point is that spinners develop with more and more experience. Yasir has played just half the number of matches as Ashwin and his career has been filled with only successes until now unlike Ashwin who faced quite a few difficulties early on in his career. He is going to become only better with difficult matches and it's wrong to write off him after one or two tough matches. I think he can get even better - he can develop his googly more and even work on the conventional leg break a bit more. He is very successful as it is, but you should keep developing so that you do not get left behind. Also I feel he needs a good partner to work with. It's amazing how Pakistan just select one pure spinner in Asia, it results in the team being overdependent on Yasir. The team will struggle when Yasir has an off day, last match could have gotten over by the end of first session had Yasir been at his usual best. You can see the impact Jadeja has on Ashwin. He is a metronome with his accuracy and hardly ever goes for runs. So he keeps runs tight at one end and that allows Ashwin to experiment with his line and length even if he goes for a bit more runs. Someone who is an accurate and a tight spinner must partner Yasir at the other end and that will make him even more potent. At the moment, Yasir has to share the entire burden of spin bowling in the team and it's taking some toll on him. He may find it difficult to operate alone against stronger spin playing sides and I think Pakistan needs to select an another pure spinner for Yasir to form a partnership with.
Click to expand...

one of the best post regarding ashwin and yasir shah.....agreed 100%........
 
street cricketer said:
Also I feel he needs a good partner to work with. It's amazing how Pakistan just select one pure spinner in Asia, it results in the team being overdependent on Yasir. The team will struggle when Yasir has an off day, last match could have gotten over by the end of first session had Yasir been at his usual best. You can see the impact Jadeja has on Ashwin. He is a metronome with his accuracy and hardly ever goes for runs. So he keeps runs tight at one end and that allows Ashwin to experiment with his line and length even if he goes for a bit more runs. Someone who is an accurate and a tight spinner must partner Yasir at the other end and that will make him even more potent. At the moment, Yasir has to share the entire burden of spin bowling in the team and it's taking some toll on him. He may find it difficult to operate alone against stronger spin playing sides and I think Pakistan needs to select an another pure spinner for Yasir to form a partnership with.
Click to expand...
It was only for this pink ball Test that we went for 3 pacers. All the talk was before the game that it would swing prodigiously under lights, which it didn't.

I presume we'll go back to having 2 pure spinners with the return of Zulfiqar Babar for Sohail Khan in the next Test.

Otherwise, the rest of the post is great and I agree with.
 
Markhor said:
It was only for this pink ball Test that we went for 3 pacers. All the talk was before the game that it would swing prodigiously under lights, which it didn't.

I presume we'll go back to having 2 pure spinners with the return of Zulfiqar Babar for Sohail Khan in the next Test.

Otherwise, the rest of the post is great and I agree with.
Click to expand...

But the track was flat as a road with no grass cover whatsoever. Anyway they probably trusted Nawaz and went with him as the 2nd spinner in the match.
 
I will one day post a detailed technical analysis on Ashwin's bowling (strengths and weaknesses) along with how he evolved.

Yasir and Ashwin are completely different kind of spinners.

Different strengths and weaknesses.

Yasir has proven himself outside Asia which Ashwin hasn't yet (he did very well in Aus last time which hasn't gone unnoticed going by the comments of people like Whatmore, Ian Chappel, some English journalists whose name I don't remember but from a results point of view....he is yet to prove himself).

From a purely technical standpoint, current Ashwin is more likely to be the superior bowler as he ticks more boxes than Yasir. He is actually a bloody good bowler now who is going to surprise a LOT of people if he continues working hard. However he has an issue which can cancel out all of his advantages and ONLY a proper overseas tour can tell us where he stands.

Yasir has passed that test (atleast somewhat) while Ashwin hasn't.

If you go by my past posts, I was neutral about this comparison even after SA tour of India but the progress made by Ashwin AFTER that series makes me believe this. Its got nothing to do with recent series results too (honestly, I don't feel he bowled as well against NZ as he did in WI in some spells).
 
Last edited:
sensible-indian-fan said:
I will one day post a detailed technical analysis on Ashwin's bowling (strengths and weaknesses) along with how he evolved.

Yasir and Ashwin are completely different kind of spinners.

Different strengths and weaknesses.

Yasir has proven himself outside Asia which Ashwin hasn't yet (he did very well in Aus last time which hasn't gone unnoticed going by the comments of people like Whatmore, Ian Chappel, some English journalists whose name I don't remember but from a results point of view....he is yet to prove himself).

From a purely technical standpoint, current Ashwin is more likely to be the superior bowler as he ticks more boxes than Yasir. He is actually a bloody good bowler now who is going to surprise a LOT of people if he continues working hard. However he has an issue which can cancel out all of his advantages and ONLY a proper overseas tour can tell us where he stands.

Yasir has passed that test (atleast somewhat) while Ashwin hasn't.

If you go by my past posts, I was neutral about this comparison even after SA tour of India but the progress made by Ashwin AFTER that series makes me believe this. Its got nothing to do with recent series results too (honestly, I don't feel he bowled as well against NZ as he did in WI in some spells).
Click to expand...

How has Yasir proven himself abroad? He did have one great tour. But if he goes on to fail in Aus and SA, would it still mean he has proved himself abroad?
 
I agree that Ashwin is yet to prove himself abroad.

But, people who downplay Kohli's 4 centuries in Aus because he was batting at roads, do they ever give Ashwin the benefit of doubt in Aus cuz of the flat pitch?
 
Sidilicious said:
How has Yasir proven himself abroad? He did have one great tour. But if he goes on to fail in Aus and SA, would it still mean he has proved himself abroad?
Click to expand...

I said Yasir has proven himself outside Asia which means in the chances he got. Its not a sweeping statement.

I also said he (somewhat) passed the test which meant he was very good in English tracks that aided spin a touch but he wasn't so good in the other 2 tracks.

Ashwin doesn't yet have a pass mark overseas (in Aus, SA, NZ and Eng) compared to Yasir which is true. Unfortunate circumstances but it is what it is.
 
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Sidilicious said:
I agree that Ashwin is yet to prove himself abroad.

But, people who downplay Kohli's 4 centuries in Aus because he was batting at roads, do they ever give Ashwin the benefit of doubt in Aus cuz of the flat pitch?
Click to expand...

Sidilicious said:
So any neutral who may think Ashwin is a better spinner dont count??
Click to expand...

Okay, we can give him the benefit of the doubt in Australia, even though he was outbowled by Lyon. What about South Africa where he sucked so bad in the one game he played, that he was dropped for Jadeja of all people? Or England where he had more impact with the bat than with the ball?

Those people are not neutrals.
 
He wasn't outbowled by Lyon in Australia in 2014.

I guess people just go to cricinfo and see series averages. Haha.

Lyon averaged 46 at 83 SR bowling with Aussie pacers and Ashwin averaged 48 at 85 SR bowling with Indian pacers. In the 3 tests they both played. And Ashwin took 1 more wicket playing 1 less innings than Lyon.

In England, Ashwin wasn't impactful with the ball cos he bowled in 2 freaking innings (and only 1 proper innings). lol. And in Oval first innings, he did quite well.
 
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Lyon averaged in the 30s with one ten-for and a couple of fifers. Also finished as the series' highest wicket-taker. Of course, the roads made it impossibly hard for the seamers in particular.

Ashwin was completely outbowled and him being dropped/not selected in a few overseas games is because he's just not good enough outside Asia.

Terrific bowler in Asia though and a good bowler overall. Clearly the #2 spinner in the world today.
 
Naaah.

Incorrect data again.

Lyon got 10fer in a game Ashwin didn't play. Adelaide.

In the games they both played, Lyon got no fifers or tenfers. Neither did Ashwin.

In fact, Ashwin almost got a 5fer (Aus decl in 2nd innings when Ashwin had 4 out of 5 wickets with Aus at 250).

Ashwin took 1 more wicket than Lyon despite bowling 1 innings less.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...4;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
 
Before anyone points out Ashwin bowled 20 more overs than Lyon in the games they played so 1 more wicket than him is natural....cricket doesn't work that way.

Overs when the team is under the pump leads to inferior results than when team is on top. So a few more overs when opposition is smashing the daylights out of you won't be fruitful for a bowler as compared to innings where pacers have claimed wickets and opposition is trying to save the game.

Regardless.....the fact that they both have similar numbers despite a huge difference in pace attack and match situation speaks volumes.
 
Lol! Why are you defending Ashwin for sucking so hard that he wasn't picked? He was outbowled by Lyon in that series regardless of any ifs or buts.

Does anyone think Shah will be dropped for any of our upcoming away games?
 
This is like me saying Akmal is not that far behind Kohli because up until the point when both him and Kohli were playing test cricket, they had similar stats (Just a hypothetical scenario, no need to dig for actual stats).
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol! Why are you defending Ashwin for sucking so hard that he wasn't picked? He was outbowled by Lyon in that series regardless of any ifs or buts.

Does anyone think Shah will be dropped for any of our upcoming away games?
Click to expand...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...4;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Ashwin got 1 more wicket than Lyon at a similar average in the matches they played together. It is unfair on Ashwin to include that Adelaide match which he didn't play.
 
Anyways, not trying to change anyone's opinion because people blind themselves to the facts. This is a very played out debate and we should pick this up again after Shah has toured New Zealand and Australia and Ashwin has feasted on England and Australia at home.
 
lol why are you blaming me for having picked apart your Ashwin vs Lyon in 2014 arguments with effortless ease?

And your Umar Akmal example is a completely irrelevant point to salvage this situation. The points I raised about Ashwin vs Lyon in 2014 were 100% valid that anyone could see.

No one here said Ashwin was a wonderful performer in Australia. People respond to the core topic being discussed. That's what forum is for.

You can keep doing "no need for ifs and buts" brother. My aim is not to convince you but to present information for the general discussions with others.
 
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