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Who is better Test batter - Joe Root or Steve Smith?

PAKFAN12

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Both Joe Root and Steve Smith are exceptional Test batsmen .

Joe Root has scored more runs but for me Steve Smith is the best red ball batter of this generation.

Tests played
Root -152
Smith-113

100s
Root-36 in 278 innings
Smith-34 in 202 innings

Avg:
Root-50.87
Smith-56.28

In Ashes 100s
Smith-12 in 66 innings
Root-4 in 65 innings

Ashes stats-
Smith-3417 runs,avg:56.01
Root-2
428 runs,avg:40.46
 
Root is the best when the conditions are perfect with zero pressure. Record in Aus: 14 test matches, 35 avg with zero 100s, shows he can't handle tough conditions or pressure.

Steven is better in tests when the conditions are hard and going gets tough.

Pretty obvious who is better here...
 
Root is the best when the conditions are perfect with zero pressure. Record in Aus: 14 test matches, 35 avg with zero 100s, shows he can't handle tough conditions or pressure.

Steven is better in tests when the conditions are hard and going gets tough.

Pretty obvious who is better here...

Root must score 5 hundreds in Australia this Christmas to be respected as an all-occasion batsman.
 
Root must score 5 hundreds in Australia this Christmas to be respected as an all-occasion batsman.

The bounce is what seems to affect him, he is a good enough player to overcome it in imo... He needs the flatter wickets to look great so far in his career, unfortunately.

14 matches in Aus against his biggest rival and to have zero 100s with a 35 avg is a very big dent in his career..
 
I have to say Root because he has more centuries and more runs. Root may end up with most Test centuries and most Test runs in history.

Anyway, Smith is not far behind.
 
Root might have scored more runs but Smith is ahead of him. Look at his conversion rate and overall runs he scored in difficult conditions. Great player Root is, but Smith is the icing on the cake.
 
I have to say Root because he has more centuries and more runs. Root may end up with most Test centuries and most Test runs in history.

Anyway, Smith is not far behind.
Steve Smith is better overall. His prime is something no one has managed to come close to excluding Bradman. Dude was avg 65 to 86 in these years and he was so far ahead of everyone in his peak.

Those 8 years were ridiculous.

But currently yes Joe root is 100x ahead now due to smith usually avg in the upper 40's now since his 8 year run ended.
 
Smith was the better batsman but Root has had the better career.

50 years down the line, not many people would remember Smith, but everyone would recognize Root as the highest run scorer in Test cricket history, and possibly the highest century maker as well.
 
The bounce is what seems to affect him, he is a good enough player to overcome it in imo... He needs the flatter wickets to look great so far in his career, unfortunately.

14 matches in Aus against his biggest rival and to have zero 100s with a 35 avg is a very big dent in his career..
That dent is about as big as the one Tendulkar has on his Test career against Pakistan.
 
Root is the best when the conditions are perfect with zero pressure. Record in Aus: 14 test matches, 35 avg with zero 100s, shows he can't handle tough conditions or pressure.

Steven is better in tests when the conditions are hard and going gets tough.

Pretty obvious who is better here...
Root is unlucky. If only he could face Indian bowlers all year around he would be better than Sir Don let alone Smith.
 
Root is unlucky. If only he could face Indian bowlers all year around he would be better than Sir Don let alone Smith.
Take the Bumrah in this series and take away the JB that was firing on all cylinders, yes he would have a 100 bat avg against the Indian bowlers... :LOL:
 
Take the Bumrah in this series and take away the JB that was firing on all cylinders, yes he would have a 100 bat avg against the Indian bowlers... :LOL:
He averaged 100 vs India in 2021 series with Bumrah firing on all cylinders.
 
Smith was the better batsman but Root has had the better career.

50 years down the line, not many people would remember Smith, but everyone would recognize Root as the highest run scorer in Test cricket history, and possibly the highest century maker as well.
People will remember smith unless someone comes and replaces him as the 2nd greatest since don
 
Yes. Root scored 737 runs in 5 Tests at an average of 105.

Bumrah took 23 wickets in 5 at an average of 22.

That series was played in bowling friendly conditions too.

I am getting 85 bruh not 100 for 2021 vs Indians..
 
People will remember smith unless someone comes and replaces him as the 2nd greatest since don
That is an opinion, it is not stat-based, especially when his average has dropped to mid 50’s. People who have watched him will hold this opinion but not the future generations of fans who didn’t watch him play.

However, Root’s name will always be there at the summit.
 
Smith will be remembered as the best ever.

Root will likely be remembered as an excellent test bat and become the highest run scorer ever.

They will occupy the top spots in the debate for the rest of cricketing history.
 
Your filters include the 2 Tests in India too.

I am talking about the series in England where India ran away before the 5th Test because of IPL, only to return a year later and get steamrolled.

Didn't you initially say on post 18, 2021 against India with Bumrah ?
 
Smith will be remembered as the best ever.

Root will likely be remembered as an excellent test bat and become the highest run scorer ever.

They will occupy the top spots in the debate for the rest of cricketing history.
Smith will be remembered as a cheat, which is why I’d rather have Root in my team.
 
Smith will be remembered as a cheat, which is why I’d rather have Root in my team.
His cheating doesn't affect his stature as a batsman. He was punished severely by the Aussie board and served his time. Contrast this to how Indian board behaved when Sachin was caught tampering.
 
His cheating doesn't affect his stature as a batsman. He was punished severely by the Aussie board and served his time. Contrast this to how Indian board behaved when Sachin was caught tampering.
No, indeed it doesn’t. It does affect his stature as a person, and I’d prefer not to have him in my side for that reason. In pure batting terms, would I rather have a Lamborghini or a Ferrari? I dunno, and I’m not sure it matters much.
 
Steve Smith at his peak averaged 66 overall.
Joe Root in his supposed peak averages just a touch over 50.

There is absolutely no comparison, Root is far behind both Tendulkar and Smith.
 
Root will become like Anderson. Most runs/wickets and ghe longevity of career. GOAT players for their country but nowhere near the best world's best XI.
 
Root will become like Anderson. Most runs/wickets and ghe longevity of career. GOAT players for their country but nowhere near the best world's best XI.
That's incorrect. What matters is a player stats at the end of their careers.

Root record is better then Ponting country wise and hos avg is 51.17 now. It'll keep rising.

He can very well become the greatest after Bradman. He is behind tenda and Steve Smith for now

Its safe to say he has surpassed Ponting though and Ponting is my favourite batsmen all time btw so this is coming from someone who is based towards Ponting

Currently root is > Ponting in test cricket.
 
Smith as a test batsman is in the league of Tendulkar and Lara.

Root is in the league of Kallis, Dravid, Sanga.
 
That's incorrect. What matters is a player stats at the end of their careers.
Stats can lie. Smith is not the best test batter of his generation because of stats only. He's best because of the performances he has given. Which the people who have seen him play can testify.
 
Stats can lie. Smith is not the best test batter of his generation because of stats only. He's best because of the performances he has given. Which the people who have seen him play can testify.
I am not stating that Smith isnt > Root, nor am I stating that he isnt the best. He is my favourite test batter as well.

But root has match winning games as well. Infact both root and Smith have more match wins then tenda who ironically has 0 if not supported by dravid, Sehwag, Laxman or Ganguly.

Root single handidely won the 3rd test. His batting sealed it on a difficult pitch. He also more or less has been everyone's Abu across the world excluding doctored pitches where india, Pakistan and Bangladesh have gotten the better of him via cheap tactics.

He's been the biggest match winner for England across the globe in the same vein Smith has been for AU.

Australia is the only country thats freqently gotten the better of root both home and away with zero cheap tactics such as purch doctoring.
 
At the end of his career Root will neither retire as the best test player of this generation nor the best limited over batsman of this generation.
 
At the end of his career Root will neither retire as the best test player of this generation nor the best limited over batsman of this generation.
That's fine, India's Sunil Gavaskar wasn't the best Test or ODI Batsman of his generation either.
 
Smith is ahead for now, mainly due to the 2019 Ashes. Smith at 8th best Test Batsman of all time, Root at 14th or 15th

Though I will add, Saying Root needs "flatter" wickets is quite delusional considering for the entirety of Smith's peak, Australia was the flattest place in existence, coming ahead of Pakistan and the wickets were so bad that even the iconic Melbourne Cricket ground almost got banned. For example...


as of October of 2023, these were the averages of the fabulous four in low scoring games IE when the run per wicket of a Test match was below average, Root emerges well ahead of the other three in below average scoring games.

Root 43.06
Kohli 34.09
Smith 32.87
Williamson 31.83

can't say how well the numbers hold, Smith has probably gone up a bit but not much due to his work in WTC final and West Indies. Root has probably gone up for his tons in London this year. Kohli has obviously gone down due to the debacle against NZ at home and the disaster in Australia, Williamson probably have gone down as well.
 
Steve Smith is better, Root will have the better numbers.

Lol kinda like how Steve Smith is > Sachin but mr longetivity will have better numbers :vk2
 

Performance against the big boys, SENAI away from home:-

Kohli - 41 Avg with 12 tons
Williamson - 33 Avg with 4 tons
Prime Kohli is obviously better, no one will deny that. But you have to look at a person's entire career. Also apologies for the Hahahaha comment, I got over excited.

Anyway prime kohli was the 2nd best test player of his era yes. But he was a has been for 6 years.

2019-2025 avg 27 with only 3 centuries and from those 3 centuries only his Perth century being of any service, is pathetic for any team not named minnow.

Williamson's overall career is better and overall career matters more then peak periods. Otherwise Ponting and Lara are better then Sachin as they outperformed him for a couple of years?
 
Forget Kohli, even Ravindra Jadeja averages 36 away from home in SENAI with bat.He is just a couple of names behind Williamson in this list against the big boys.
 
Prime Kohli is obviously better, no one will deny that. But you have to look at a person's entire career. Also apologies for the Hahahaha comment, I got over excited.

Anyway prime kohli was the 2nd best test player of his era yes. But he was a has been for 6 years.

2019-2025 avg 27 with only 3 centuries and from those 3 centuries only his Perth century being of any service, is pathetic for any team not named minnow.

Williamson's overall career is better and overall career matters more then peak periods. Otherwise Ponting and Lara are better then Sachin as they outperformed him for a couple of years?
1) Steve Smith
2) Root
3) Williamson
4) Kohli

However kohli is behind the pecking order for a lot of players. For example Harry Brook is > Kohli atm as well
 
Prime Kohli is obviously better, no one will deny that. But you have to look at a person's entire career. Also apologies for the Hahahaha comment, I got over excited.

Anyway prime kohli was the 2nd best test player of his era yes. But he was a has been for 6 years.

2019-2025 avg 27 with only 3 centuries and from those 3 centuries only his Perth century being of any service, is pathetic for any team not named minnow.

Williamson's overall career is better and overall career matters more then peak periods. Otherwise Ponting and Lara are better then Sachin as they outperformed him for a couple of years?
This is about performance vs big boys away from home in entire career and not just prime phase.

Kohli during his decline played a lot of games vs big boys and he failed against them too but he was always a tier ahead of Williamson when it comes to performing away from home .

SENAI is a perfect filter to look at overall performances for them and it counts neutral venue also and we can see that Kohli is levels ahead of Williamson. If their averages were in same range( like 38-41) then other factors like Williamson bashing Pak and SL or home performance vs top teams would come true in his case but this is enough for me to conclude that Kohli is a better bat than Williamson.

I accept your apology because being a millennial , it is my duty to mentor GenZ folks. Thanks! :ab :inti
 
This is about performance vs big boys away from home in entire career and not just prime phase.

Kohli during his decline played a lot of games vs big boys and he failed against them too but he was always a tier ahead of Williamson when it comes to performing away from home .

SENAI is a perfect filter to look at overall performances for them and it counts neutral venue also and we can see that Kohli is levels ahead of Williamson. If their averages were in same range( like 38-41) then other factors like Williamson bashing Pak and SL or home performance vs top teams would come true in his case but this is enough for me to conclude that Kohli is a better bat than Williamson.

I accept your apology because being a millennial , it is my duty to mentor GenZ folks. Thanks! :ab :inti
Would you be willing to agree Prime Kohli > Williamson and Williamson > 2019-2025 Kohli and agree to disagree on overall placement?

I am willing to drop my ego from now on with some fellow posters and meet them in the middle.

Is that fair?

Edit reason why I am saying 2025 and not 2024 is cause Kohli did play the last BGT in 2025 before announcing test retirement. Hence its 2025 not 2024.
 
Would you be willing to agree Prime Kohli > Williamson and Williamson > 2019-2025 Kohli and agree to disagree on overall placement?

I am willing to drop my ego from now on with some fellow posters and meet them in the middle.

Is that fair?

Edit reason why I am saying 2025 and not 2024 is cause Kohli did play the last BGT in 2025 before announcing test retirement. Hence its 2025 not 2024.
Yes
 
On current form root but overall Smith. Smith downfall is already started and Ashes will be his last series in international cricket. :kp
 
Joe Root everyday of the week. Smith just has an ugly/unorthodox action that is simply not pleasing to the eye to hell with the stats.

Plus Joe Root don't dig on sandpaper to cheat.
 
Peak = Smith
Career = Root

Smith is fading away pretty badly. By the time he retires, his career wouldn’t be distinguishable from any other 50+ averaging batsman.

Root will have a unique place in history as the leading run scorer and leading century maker in Test history.
 
That's fine, India's Sunil Gavaskar wasn't the best Test or ODI Batsman of his generation either.
Sachin was the best Odi and test batsman of his generation.

Kohli retired as the Odi and t20 goat.

So we have higher standards, number 2 is just not enough for us.

You won’t get it, as your country hardly produces any ATG.
 
History will be kind to Root. Smith's glorious peak is over, all now remains is the skeleton of an ugly, awkward, ineffective stace. Unless he gets a new life & produces something historical to win a series in Ind, he will remain behind Root as more years will pass. Yes, Root needs to conquer the down under as the last frontier but even if he fails again he has already sealed his place & legacy in history.
 
On topic, there is absolutely no comparison between Smith and Root.

Smiths peak blows away Roots performances, he averaged nearly 66 at his peak (and that was his overall average around 6 years ago).

In comparison, Root even at his peak averages a touch above 50 and that is when he has plundered runs on the flattest pitches in England and Pakistan.

Absolutely no comparison!
 
I have seen both of them bat against India and in Ashes.

Smiths performance in 2016-17 was stuff of legends. At that time he was basically a superhuman, whenever he used to play against us in tests there was always a fear that this guy will take the match away from use.

I have seen Root too but never felt the same.
 
Peak = Smith
Career = Root

Smith is fading away pretty badly. By the time he retires, his career wouldn’t be distinguishable from any other 50+ averaging batsman.

Root will have a unique place in history as the leading run scorer and leading century maker in Test history.
That's too far, he has an excellent record, and hes a member of the 10K club. Claiming that he wont be distinguished amongst his peers is a bit too far.
 
Smiths peak blows away Roots performances, he averaged nearly 66 at his peak (and that was his overall average around 6 years ago).

In comparison, Root even at his peak averages a touch above 50 and that is when he has plundered runs on the flattest pitches in England and Pakistan.

Absolutely no comparison!
Yeah because Smith didn't plunder runs on the flattest pitches to arguably ever exist on Test level.
 
as already very clearly presented, Root has the best numbers of the fab four in low scoring games by quite a margin, this very series he made a hundred at Lord's where batting was difficult throughout and on the Oval Greentop while not using the Edgbaston road properly, only scoring in Old Trafford of the three flatter pitches. I am assuming the whole flat wicket thing is something schziophrenic fans made up to discredit Root?
 
Sachin was the best Odi and test batsman of his generation.

Kohli retired as the Odi and t20 goat.

So we have higher standards, number 2 is just not enough for us.

You won’t get it, as your country hardly produces any ATG.
Yet in the last 25 years England excercise head to head superiority on every team other than Australia, about even with India (21-23), so looks like producing ATGs is not actually a criteria.

Plus, regarding standards, wasn't Mohammad Azharrudin a captain of yours :therock
 
Yet in the last 25 years England excercise head to head superiority on every team other than Australia, about even with India (21-23), so looks like producing ATGs is not actually a criteria.

Plus, regarding standards, wasn't Mohammad Azharrudin a captain of yours :therock
India has won more series against England in this millennium, and that’s what actually matters.

You haven’t been able to win a series against us since 2018, yes the Atgs have helped us win more.
 
When he plundered runs on flat pitches he took his average up to 66, feasting on pattas and still having an avg of 50 is not comparable.
Probably because Root doesn't actually feast on flat pitches, Smith has a higher peak nothing to discuss there, both debuted around the same time and Smith's average will decrease more than Root's from here. Root averaged 51, Smith 56, no need to tailor stats to suit you more.
 
India has won more series against England in this millennium, and that’s what actually matters.

You haven’t been able to win a series against us since 2018, yes the Atgs have helped us win more.
21-23, Yeah huge advantage you got there lad.

.... except no ATGs played for India in 2016 or 2021.
 
That's too far, he has an excellent record, and hes a member of the 10K club. Claiming that he wont be distinguished amongst his peers is a bit too far.
My point is that there are multiple batsmen with 50+ average and 10k+ runs. Smith will be one of such several batsmen.

What made him standout was his 60 average which he sustained for a long time but he averages 44 in his last 50 Tests what should have been his true prime (mid 30s). He had a slow start, peaked in mid to late 20s and declined a little too early.

Root on the other hand hit the ground running, then had a slump and then had a tremendous peak that is showing no signs of ending any time soon.

I would still put peak Smith ahead because sustaining an average of 60 after 80+ Tests is extraordinary. However, by the time both retire, Smith will not have a massive tally of runs or very high number of centuries and his average has also normalized quite a bit.

On the other hand, Root will stand alone at the summit in terms of runs and centuries.

Nonetheless, both are extraordinary Test batsmen.
 
My point is that there are multiple batsmen with 50+ average and 10k+ runs. Smith will be one of such several batsmen.

What made him standout was his 60 average which he sustained for a long time but he averages 44 in his last 50 Tests what should have been his true prime (mid 30s). He had a slow start, peaked in mid to late 20s and declined a little too early.

Root on the other hand hit the ground running, then had a slump and then had a tremendous peak that is showing no signs of ending any time soon.

I would still put peak Smith ahead because sustaining an average of 60 after 80+ Tests is extraordinary. However, by the time both retire, Smith will not have a massive tally of runs or very high number of centuries and his average has also normalized quite a bit.

On the other hand, Root will stand alone at the summit in terms of runs and centuries.

Nonetheless, both are extraordinary Test batsmen.
Tbf I agree with you, but just one counter argument, their are only 15 batters in history who have acquires the 10K mark.

And excluding cook and mahela everyone else avg 50 or above and clearly stand out from any other batter who has not joined this club.

Excluding Mattew Hayden, but thats due to him avg 50 as a test opener hence he stands out despite not being in the club.

Smith will still be remembered amongst the top 15. But yes Root will likely be no 1 in terms of runs and possibly centuries.
 
21-23, Yeah huge advantage you got there lad.

.... except no ATGs played for India in 2016 or 2021.
Ind vs eng in this milennium in tests

Ind won 6
Eng won 4

We have been the dominant team by far. You can keep living in delusion.

Also, lets not even discuss the limited overs matches, we have beaten you black and blue there.
 
Ind vs eng in this milennium in tests

Ind won 6
Eng won 4

We have been the dominant team by far. You can keep living in delusion.

Also, lets not even discuss the limited overs matches, we have beaten you black and blue there.
Considering yourself dominant over 6-4 just screams of you being desperate and insecure, the scoreline reads 23-21, you've done slightly better but calling yourself "dominant"? eh

Plus, why are you sucking your own dick so hard over me simply saying your method of dismissing Root doesn't work considering the same statement can be made regarding your second greatest batsman? it's really weird how you went in a full blown schzio rant about India and England over a discussion regarding Root and Gavaskar.

nobody cares of bilateral limited overs outside of the Sub continent, IIRC india and England have won the same amount of ODI and T20 world cups this century too!
 
Smith has already cemented his place amongst the test legends like Ponting, Lara, Sangakarra and Kallis. He has exceeded some of them.

Joe Root has a great legacy but a lot depends on how he will finish his career. If he can take the number 1 spot for Test runs then he will also belong in that category above.

I dont read too much into scores in won matches as their are a lot of other factors at play but he has the 2nd most centuries in won matches in the history of the game. That figure is staggering as he hasn't ever played in a dominant side the way that players like Ponting and Hayden have.
 
Yet in the last 25 years England excercise head to head superiority on every team other than Australia, about even with India (21-23), so looks like producing ATGs is not actually a criteria.

Plus, regarding standards, wasn't Mohammad Azharrudin a captain of yours :therock
What are your numbers against Saffers?
 
Smith has already cemented his place amongst the test legends like Ponting, Lara, Sangakarra and Kallis. He has exceeded some of them.

Joe Root has a great legacy but a lot depends on how he will finish his career. If he can take the number 1 spot for Test runs then he will also belong in that category above.

I dont read too much into scores in won matches as their are a lot of other factors at play but he has the 2nd most centuries in won matches in the history of the game. That figure is staggering as he hasn't ever played in a dominant side the way that players like Ponting and Hayden have.
Smith is > all the names you mentioned by far. He had a greater peak and his current avg + country record is still > all of em in a bowler friendly test era.

Sanga is the only one who has a greater avg but his avg vs top teams is awful(by awful i mean no where near smith) Sanga is a quality player and people hate Sanga too much due to the Tenda narrative.

But Sanga's stats are inflated in test 100% while Steve Smith's stats aren't.

As for Root, Root's record atm is = Ponting. Ponting may have had a better peak avg 61 but that doesnt change the fact that at present both of their records per country and overall stats are neck and neck.
 
Atherton and Hussain talked about it (Eng)
Cummins and @mominsaigol (Aus)
Shami (Ind)
@sweep_shot (BD)

Many more from around the globe have made their reservations known.
Bro alot of these folkes pretend as if such conversations don't exist.

For example Indians like @Rajdeep and @jeeteshssaxena have peddled narratives about root and only Pakistani fans hyping root despite Steve Smith vocally claiming that root will beat Sachin and he's looking forward to witness it.

Clearly only Pakistani fans aren't observing and wishing to witness this phenomenon.

Their level of lying is on another level.
 
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