Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

[The Bald Eagle]

Muslims and Hindus have been living together for over a millennium in the sub continent. So principally their differences should have subsided over the years but ironically the situation has been worsening for quite some time especially in India.

This phenomenon is quite unique in history as the Christians and Jews used to be sworn enemies of each other but over the years they have mended fences to bridge the animosity gap. But for Hindutva supporters, it is no brainer to support the anti Muslim forces whether they be perpetrating crimes against Muslims in Burma, Syria, Palestine, Yemen or anywhere else.

So what is the reason behind this immense hostility despite the fact they have a lot of common grounds too to sort out their differences?

 

[Varun]

Hindutva supporters = like Modi more than they like India.

Modi tells them = Muslims are bad = Hindutvas hate Muslims.

If Modi peddled to them that he was a cyborg that wasn't human, they would believe that too. Oh wait...

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Hindutva supporters = like Modi more than they like India.

Modi tells them = Muslims are bad = Hindutvas hate Muslims.

If Modi peddled to them that he was a cyborg that wasn't human, they would believe that too. Oh wait...

Yep Modi once claimed to be super natural being and people here come up with 3 different interpretations for it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hindutva supporters = like Modi more than they like India.

Modi tells them = Muslims are bad = Hindutvas hate Muslims.

If Modi peddled to them that he was a cyborg that wasn't human, they would believe that too. Oh wait...

Very insightful and profound analysis. POTW

 

[CricketCartoons]

Muslims and Hindus have been living together for over a millennium in the sub continent. So principally their differences should have subsided over the years but ironically the situation has been worsening for quite some time especially in India.

This phenomenon is quite unique in history as the Christians and Jews used to be sworn enemies of each other but over the years they have mended fences to bridge the animosity gap. But for Hindutva supporters, it is no brainer to support the anti Muslim forces whether they be perpetrating crimes against Muslims in Burma, Syria, Palestine, Yemen or anywhere else.

So what is the reason behind this immense hostility despite the fact they have a lot of common grounds too to sort out their differences?

Hate is the language of expression of the oppressed. Muslims have inflicted civlizational wounds which we still carry deep in our hearts. Must be something so barbaric and cruel that even we effeminate and emasculated sub human dindoos who easily forget wrongs done to them and side with their masters are unable to get over it.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Hate is the language of expression of the oppressed. Muslims have inflicted civlizational wounds which we still carry deep in our hearts. Must be something so barbaric and cruel that even we effeminate and emasculated sub human dindoos who easily forget wrongs done to them and side with their masters are unable to get over it.

OK lets say Hindus have been wronged by some psychopath Muslim rulers but what this has to do with current Muslim population. German Nazi wiped jews but are Jews today targeting Germans or poor Palestinians?. USA just half a century ago vaporized Japanese brutally and unlawfully but even they don't bear such hostility. So were all other cruel people less barbaric than some muslims or is it the venomic rhetoric that keeps on igniting the fire?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Muslims and Hindus have been living together for over a millennium in the sub continent. So principally their differences should have subsided over the years but ironically the situation has been worsening for quite some time especially in India.

This phenomenon is quite unique in history as the Christians and Jews used to be sworn enemies of each other but over the years they have mended fences to bridge the animosity gap. But for Hindutva supporters, it is no brainer to support the anti Muslim forces whether they be perpetrating crimes against Muslims in Burma, Syria, Palestine, Yemen or anywhere else.

So what is the reason behind this immense hostility despite the fact they have a lot of common grounds too to sort out their differences?

Its the general "us v/s them" mentality. Power hungry people riling up the masses against a "external threat".
Not unique to Hinudtva either, happens in all religions and regions. You need some group as scape goat to carry out the fear mongering. Adding another point, This external threat is usually the largest "minority" of the region. Other Tiny minorities receive favorable terms unless they also become big enough to have significant say politically.

Also,
Fundamentals of Islam teaching simply call some of the basic principles of Hinduism as one of the greatest sins, like idol worship etc. It was always easier to create a rift between Hindus and Muslims compared to Abrahamic Religions. There is hardly any commonality and lots of conflicts in teachings same is not the case for Muslims, Christians and Jews. (Atleast all these are people of the book, have common ancient History). The ammunition has always been there, Britishers extracted it, Pakistan idea and the RSS/Savarkar gave the differences their natural growth.

 

[Local.Dada]

OK lets say Hindus have been wronged by some psychopath Muslim rulers but what this has to do with current Muslim population. German Nazi wiped jews but are Jews today targeting Germans or poor palestinians. USA just a half a century ago vapourized Japanese brutally and unlawfully but even they don't bear such hostility. So were all other cruel people less barbaric than some muslims or is it the venomic rhetoric that keeps on igniting the fire?

Who is wiping out current Muslim population? You keep telling yourself that Irfan Pathan or Shami said this and that as they are scared of BJP, SRK, Salman Khan living in threat due to RSS etc, even though it’s bs and even sensible Muslims or for matter of fact Pakistanis know it they have filled themselves into believing this narrative,

Ask any Muslim middle class or a guy who has any career prospects if he wants to move to Pak or Bangla, you will get your answer.

Modi is in power for 10+ yrs now; how many Muslims eliminated? If you are accounting for some gangster shot dead or whatever then more power to you, nothing to add.

 

[CricketCartoons]

OK lets say Hindus have been wronged by some psychopath Muslim rulers but what this has to do with current Muslim population. German Nazi wiped jews but are Jews today targeting Germans or poor Palestinians?. USA just half a century ago vaporized Japanese brutally and unlawfully but even they don't bear such hostility. So were all other cruel people less barbaric than some muslims or is it the venomic rhetoric that keeps on igniting the fire?

Current muslims in india have nothing to do with what someone did in the past.

BUT

If they idolize and venerate those who wronged hindus, then they are also participants and can no longer claim innocence.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Current muslims in india have nothing to do with what someone did in the past.

BUT

If they idolize and venerate those who wronged hindus, then they are also participants and can no longer claim innocence.

They can venerate some parts and look the other way for other parts of the history of the mughal caliphate.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Its the general "us v/s them" mentality. Power hungry people riling up the masses against a "external threat".
Not unique to Hinudtva either, happens in all religions and regions. You need some group as scape goat to carry out the fear mongering. Adding another point, This external threat is usually the largest "minority" of the region. Other Tiny minorities receive favorable terms unless they also become big enough to have significant say politically.

Also,
Fundamentals of Islam teaching simply call some of the basic principles of Hinduism as one of the greatest sins, like idol worship etc. It was always easier to create a rift between Hindus and Muslims compared to Abrahamic Religions. There is hardly any commonality and lots of conflicts in teachings same is not the case for Muslims, Christians and Jews. (Atleast all these are people of the book, have common ancient History). The ammunition has always been there, Britishers extracted it, Pakistan idea and the RSS/Savarkar gave the differences their natural growth.

Both religions are misunderstood by the other.

Hindus seen as filthy pagan idol worshipers who drink cow urine and Muslims as invaders and converts Arab wannabes who follow a terroristic religion.

I don't live in India but when the groups are characterised by members of the opposite population in these ways then there is bound to be conflict.

At the moment the Hindu holds the whip.

 

[CricketCartoons]

They can venerate some parts and look the other way for other parts of the history of the mughal caliphate.

They keep looking the other way on things that should be looked at.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

OK lets say Hindus have been wronged by some psychopath Muslim rulers but what this has to do with current Muslim population. German Nazi wiped jews but are Jews today targeting Germans or poor Palestinians?. USA just half a century ago vaporized Japanese brutally and unlawfully but even they don't bear such hostility. So were all other cruel people less barbaric than some muslims or is it the venomic rhetoric that keeps on igniting the fire?

No one is denying that Modi and BJP dont like Muslims. But also accept that there is no "Muslim Genocide".
Modi had unfettered power for last 10 years, have seen a mass genocide? India is developing country with multiple communities and religions. We have been having communal riots way before even BJP existed. Local level disputes snowballing into something bigger.
But, most of the rhetoric was just "hyperbole", I have already pointed in another thread there is absolutely ZERO CHANCE of India becoming a Hindu Rashtra, its an impossibility even if Modi had 100% seats in our Parliament.

Communal rhetoric has found voices in this age of social media and gotten amplified. You might focus on the RSS and VHP nut jobs, but do you remember about Owaisi when he claimed that if police is removed for 15 minutes, we (Muslims) will finish 100 crore Hindus. Plenty of power hungry demagogues.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Both religions are misunderstood by the other.

Hindus seen as filthy pagan idol worshipers who drink cow urine and Muslims as invaders and converts Arab wannabes who follow a terroristic religion.

I don't live in India but when the groups are characterised by members of the opposite population in these ways then there is bound to be conflict.

At the moment the Hindu holds the whip.

I don't think there is misunderstanding. We might try to live peacefully and all. But the average people who will follow the traditions and teachings of their respective religions will not be able to see part the extreme contradictions. Its a sad unfortunate truth and they will be exploited by fear easily.


the politics of India is way too complex than just the Hindu- Muslim dichotomy. There is no whip and certainly Hindu doesn't hold the whip. Indian Secular institutions may not be perfect but have shown resilience over the last 10 years. The election results of this time speaks volume of what matters.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I also grew up with the view that Pakistani muslims bad, Indian muslims good. Indian muslims are the best. Showing off Islamic content on my social media, showing off Urdu as my favourite language etc etc.

Last 5 years. When I saw the hatred for hindus during anti CAA protests, when it was not taking away anything from indian muslims, and ONLY giving fast track citizenship to minority refugees ALREADY living in India. That shook me up.

Not that muslims and hindus cannot co operate and do constructive things, or they cannot be the best of friends.

Then I realized that what hurt me about muslims, as actually the right point of view. Muslims are right. They KNOW how to live and prosper on this planet.

I am still grappled by the futility of life itself and see life as a burden and treat myself as a speck of dust, but muslims KNOW how to live and also know how to die. They are going to rule the world some day. Despite being a non practicing hindu, I owned this identity and thought I will die a hindu and till I am alive, I will teach hindus to be like muslims. Not LIKE muslims, but BE LIKE muslims.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I don't think there is misunderstanding. We might try to live peacefully and all. But the average people who will follow the traditions and teachings of their respective religions will not be able to see part the extreme contradictions. Its a sad unfortunate truth and they will be exploited by fear easily.


the politics of India is way too complex than just the Hindu- Muslim dichotomy. There is no whip and certainly Hindu doesn't hold the whip. Indian Secular institutions may not be perfect but have shown resilience over the last 10 years. The election results of this time speaks volume of what matters.

Hindus hold the whip. There is just some decent people holding them back.

When they are given the government ahead they will whip the Muslims black and blue.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They keep looking the other way on things that should be looked at.

Sorry I didn't see this post as I was browsing the thread.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Hindus hold the whip. There is just some decent people holding them back.

When they are given the government ahead they will whip the Muslims black and blue.

Modi had absolute power for 10 years, even now he is in power. How long will you keep feeling scared for the Muslims of India who are actually on an average living better quality of life than in Pakistan.
If things are getting so bad, we should have started hearing stories about Muslims leaving India by now.
Not saying things are good but too much hyperbolic rhetoric simply derails actual ground reality arguments. With 80% of the Population being Hindus, of course, they will have more say in the culture of the country. Why should that be an irritant?
There is no legal restriction on Muslims acquiring anything they wish for, they have equal voting rights unlike in Pakistan.
Minority rights sucks in almost every part of the world, but minorities live at much better parity with majority in India than any other country in South Asia.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think Some Hindutva supporters believe that Muslims oppressed Hindus during their rule in India, leading to resentment.

Also the BJPs narratives of "Hindu dominance" or "Muslim threat" might be reinforced by their political ideology and historical events, potentially leading to biases against Muslims.

 

[uppercut]

Muslims and Hindus have been living together for over a millennium in the sub continent.

That's just a plain lie. If it was a true statement then there would be no Pakistan to begin with. And remember there was no radical hindutva organization that was after muslims when the idea of Pakistan was conceptualized.


Once you accept that reality you will automatically get the answers to your question.

 

[big_gamer007]

For any ideology to gain mainstream support or any amount of sizeable support there is not just one but various factors.

Muslims have to introspect the actions of some of their community members which led to this situation.
Media/Social media have to introspect their role.
Political parties of past and present have to introspect their role.


It’s a combination of power, brainwashing, unemployment, historic wrongs, religious differences.

 

[big_gamer007]

I think Some Hindutva supporters believe that Muslims oppressed Hindus during their rule in India, leading to resentment.

That is just one of the factors, the other major factor is how a part of Muslim community behaved after Independence.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think Some Hindutva supporters believe that Muslims oppressed Hindus during their rule in India, leading to resentment.

Also the BJPs narratives of "Hindu dominance" or "Muslim threat" might be reinforced by their political ideology and historical events, potentially leading to biases against Muslims.

Let us forget the past and focus only on present.

1. Muslims refuse to hand over temple which was converted to a mosque, despite it clearly showing parts of the temple. And it is not about many temples, just 2-3 which hold very high sanctity for hindus.

2. Many indian muslims protested giving citizenship to minority refugees who were already living in india. It was not an open offer for population exchange, nor was it about taking away citizenship, but to give citizenship to those refugees who were already living in India. Yet many indian muslims took to streets to protest against that.

3. And the common supremacist belief that we ruled you guys. It may suit Pakistanis, but Indian muslims can't cling to this supremacist thought if they want to live like equals.

4. Refusal to accept secular laws. Want to have their own parallel system where indian laws do not apply. Like opposing giving maintenance to wives after divorce. You can't have a parallel justice system and being exclusionary, and then complain of being othered.

5. Many muslims will not see anything wrong in the above points, and I understand that it is the way their brain is wired. So it is not for convincing anyone, but some points which show how there will be resentment even if you forget the history.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That is just one of the factors, the other major factor is how a part of Muslim community behaved after Independence.

People need to listen to Sardar Patel's view on Muslim community in India in 1948 in Kolkata.

Also read about Baba Saheb Ambedkar on Muslims.

These were not Hindutva leaders.

Decades of appeasement of muslims by politicians have led to the rise of BJP.

Hindu Muslims have been at each other's throats for a millenia now. Same can be said about Muslims against Jews and Christians.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Young muslims desecrating memorial for dead soldiers. Why: because of govts inaction on rohingya issue in Burma. This was in 2012 when congress was ruling.

But blame hindutva without looking into their own girebaan.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

View attachment 145401

Young muslims desecrating memorial for dead soldiers. Why: because of govts inaction on rohingya issue in Burma. This was in 2012 when congress was ruling.

But blame hindutva without looking into their own girebaan.

Never knew about this incident.

 

[IndoorCricket]

What people need to ask is, why muslims are overwhelmingly in conflict with other religions worldwide?

 

[Varun]

What people need to ask is, why muslims are overwhelmingly in conflict with other religions worldwide?

That is another debate.

 

[IndoorCricket]

That is another debate.

Thats the root cause. If any one want real answers they should go the root cause.

 

[harshjoshi87]

Never knew about this incident.

Happened in Mumbai in 2012.

The mob also attacked police officials.

No one said a thing until one of the Thackeray turned up with his party members.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That is another debate.

Exactly.

 

[gani999]

Why is anti-hindu and anti-Indian bias so profound among a large section of Pakistanis?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Modi had absolute power for 10 years, even now he is in power. How long will you keep feeling scared for the Muslims of India who are actually on an average living better quality of life than in Pakistan.
If things are getting so bad, we should have started hearing stories about Muslims leaving India by now.
Not saying things are good but too much hyperbolic rhetoric simply derails actual ground reality arguments. With 80% of the Population being Hindus, of course, they will have more say in the culture of the country. Why should that be an irritant?
There is no legal restriction on Muslims acquiring anything they wish for, they have equal voting rights unlike in Pakistan.
Minority rights sucks in almost every part of the world, but minorities live at much better parity with majority in India than any other country in South Asia.

Just because has not happened doesn't preclude it from happening in the future.

Some people are baying for blood and the chance to take historic revenge.

Their blood lust won't be kept at bay for long.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Just because has not happened doesn't preclude it from happening in the future.

Some people are baying for blood and the chance to take historic revenge.

Their blood lust won't be kept at bay for long.

Now, that's just sticking to your notions inspite of the facts to contrary. Nothing can change those assumptions.
There is a rare chance of BJP getting such a clear majority ever again but still you want to stick to the "genocide " hyperbolic political pitches. That's your choice. You use the term some, just like their are radical Hindus in our Parliament we have radical Islamic like Owaisi in our Parliament too, who openly talked about murdering 100 crore Hindus in just 15 mins.

The kind of hyperbole that's made out, Indian Muslims should have been rushing to Pakistan in droves. We can compare the stats as to how many Hindus from Pakistan are seeking asylum in India and vice versa. Asylum seekers should be a reasonable indicator of persecution of minorities, right?

 

[RexRex]

Exactly.

Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by exactly. Is there some broader overarching reason that indian muslims elicit this reaction/bias from hindutvas ?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Now, that's just sticking to your notions inspite of the facts to contrary. Nothing can change those assumptions.
There is a rare chance of BJP getting such a clear majority ever again but still you want to stick to the "genocide " hyperbolic political pitches. That's your choice. You use the term some, just like their are radical Hindus in our Parliament we have radical Islamic like Owaisi in our Parliament too, who openly talked about murdering 100 crore Hindus in just 15 mins.

The kind of hyperbole that's made out, Indian Muslims should have been rushing to Pakistan in droves. We can compare the stats as to how many Hindus from Pakistan are seeking asylum in India and vice versa. Asylum seekers should be a reasonable indicator of persecution of minorities, right?

Owaisi is a stirrer and bigotry too.

There are only two ways that I don't anticipate major blood shed.

One is if Muslims fall into line and and step out of this grey area where secularism is good when it is in their benefit but bad when it tramples on their rights.

Or two if Hindus right agree to this parallel system.

I don't see either side agreeing.

It will only end one way.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Good thread OP.

I wonder why Hindus in general don't have such issues with Christians, Jews, Buddhist, or any other faiths like they do with Muslims.

One thing I noticed is that: Muslims seems to have issues with ppl of other religion when they go and settle in non muslim countries... The Arab Muslims are not as bad, I mainly noticed these issues with the sub continental Muslims.

What are the reasons behind these problems with Muslims ?

Currently around the world we see the below, conflict/issue wise at a concerning level:

Christians vs Muslims,

Jews vs Muslims,

Hindus vs Muslims,

Chinese (whatever religion they are) vs Muslims with Ughyurs. China has gone as far as banning the name Muhammad from certain areas and rewriting the Quran..

Buddhist vs Muslims,

Atheist vs Muslims.

Quite a trend....

 

[RexRex]

Why is anti-hindu and anti-Indian bias so profound among a large section of Pakistanis?

This exists too. Add antisemitism to that.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Owaisi is a stirrer and bigotry too.

There are only two ways that I don't anticipate major blood shed.

One is if Muslims fall into line and and step out of this grey area where secularism is good when it is in their benefit but bad when it tramples on their rights.

Or two if Hindus right agree to this parallel system.

I don't see either side agreeing.

It will only end one way.

Whatever be the case, please try to see this Muslims in India are not rushing to Pakistan seeking asylum.

Communal riots and bigotry exist everywhere in the world. However bad the situations might be projected and amplified in social media with agendas, Indian Muslims are still not considering Pakistan as viable option for a safe life.

BJP has been in power for a total of 19 years now and will be 24 years, there area always concerns but I will take it seriously when Muslims are forced to seek asylum in other countries. That will be a matter of grave concern.

If you want to talk about stats, here is a lovely little stat. In India, the number of terrorist attacks reduced significantly in the last 10 years. What do we make of that? All past bombings were false flags till BJP came to power?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never knew about this incident.

Because it was one or two instances probably, not the community at large.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Good thread OP.

I wonder why Hindus in general don't have such issues with Christians, Jews, Buddhist, or any other faiths like they do with Muslims.

One thing I noticed is that: Muslims seems to have issues with ppl of other religion when they go and settle in non muslim countries... The Arab Muslims are not as bad, I mainly noticed these issues with the sub continental Muslims.

What are the reasons behind these problems with Muslims ?

Currently around the world we see the below, conflict/issue wise at a concerning level:

Christians vs Muslims,

Jews vs Muslims,

Hindus vs Muslims,

Chinese (whatever religion they are) vs Muslims with Ughyurs. China has gone as far as banning the name Muhammad from certain areas and rewriting the Quran..

Buddhist vs Muslims,

Atheist vs Muslims.

Quite a trend....

What issues do Muslims have with people of other religion in non-Muslim countries? Can you give some examples so we can try and understand what they might be?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Because it was one or two instances probably, not the community at large.

An attack on a National Memorial in the heart of a major capital city is far different from local dispute escalating into communal clash in a tier 3 city or a village.

A random village or tier 3 city doesn't represent the community at large either.

 

[Romali_rotti]

What issues do Muslims have with people of other religion in non-Muslim countries? Can you give some examples so we can try and understand what they might be?

Well here is one example Cap, wanting Shariah Law is a threat to other religions.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’​

If the title were the only issue, maybe it wouldn’t be worth mentioning. But as it is, the documentary What British Muslims Really Think, which aired on Britain’s Channel 4 on April 13, is so full of problems that we might as well start there.

Because it does seem a tiny bit troublesome, suggesting as it does that “British Muslims” all think the same thing and, moreover, that what they tell you isn’t what they’re really thinking.

And as it turns out, these are the two operational premises running through this one-hour documentary. It begins by taking some time to establish the legitimacy of the polling upon which it is based as accurately representing Britain’s population of three million Muslims. We’ll get to the problems with the methodology in a bit.

The poll, we hear, is a “unique new survey”, the findings of which will “shock many” and point to a “looming threat to our very way of life”.

Then it goes on to steadily create the fearful impression of Muslims in the United Kingdom as superficially a part of society – they seem quite nice and friendly, don’t they? – but actually quite dodgy when you get to really know them.

And the trouble is that the Muslims you meet at work or at the shops or on the school run or wherever won’t tell you their “innermost thoughts”, according to this documentary – hence the need for some face-to-face polling.

So, we start with the nice stats about the majority of British Muslims feeling British, feeling an emotional attachment to the country.

Everything seems fine but then, hang on, here are the issues over which British Muslims diverge from the rest of the population – not that this is an “us” and “them” set-up, you understand.

The polling shows that 52 percent of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, a third believe that polygamy is acceptable and nearly a quarter support the implementation of Sharia law.

There’s more, too, about “the equivalent of 100,000 Muslims” – as extrapolated from the polling of 4 percent – having sympathy for suicide bombers, who fight injustice, alongside intolerance for freedom of expression when it comes to portraying the Prophet Muhammad, and also believing that Jews have too much power – at 44 percent.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’

Phillips argues for integration in the documentary, although you may not agree with the ways he suggests getting there.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

An attack on a National Memorial in the heart of a major capital city is far different from local dispute escalating into communal clash in a tier 3 city or a village.

A random village or tier 3 city doesn't represent the community at large either.

From the pictures posted it looks like an individual in each instance. Was it part of a larger group?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well here is one example Cap, wanting Shariah Law is a threat to other religions.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’​

If the title were the only issue, maybe it wouldn’t be worth mentioning. But as it is, the documentary What British Muslims Really Think, which aired on Britain’s Channel 4 on April 13, is so full of problems that we might as well start there.

Because it does seem a tiny bit troublesome, suggesting as it does that “British Muslims” all think the same thing and, moreover, that what they tell you isn’t what they’re really thinking.

And as it turns out, these are the two operational premises running through this one-hour documentary. It begins by taking some time to establish the legitimacy of the polling upon which it is based as accurately representing Britain’s population of three million Muslims. We’ll get to the problems with the methodology in a bit.

The poll, we hear, is a “unique new survey”, the findings of which will “shock many” and point to a “looming threat to our very way of life”.

Then it goes on to steadily create the fearful impression of Muslims in the United Kingdom as superficially a part of society – they seem quite nice and friendly, don’t they? – but actually quite dodgy when you get to really know them.

And the trouble is that the Muslims you meet at work or at the shops or on the school run or wherever won’t tell you their “innermost thoughts”, according to this documentary – hence the need for some face-to-face polling.

So, we start with the nice stats about the majority of British Muslims feeling British, feeling an emotional attachment to the country.

Everything seems fine but then, hang on, here are the issues over which British Muslims diverge from the rest of the population – not that this is an “us” and “them” set-up, you understand.

The polling shows that 52 percent of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, a third believe that polygamy is acceptable and nearly a quarter support the implementation of Sharia law.

There’s more, too, about “the equivalent of 100,000 Muslims” – as extrapolated from the polling of 4 percent – having sympathy for suicide bombers, who fight injustice, alongside intolerance for freedom of expression when it comes to portraying the Prophet Muhammad, and also believing that Jews have too much power – at 44 percent.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’

Phillips argues for integration in the documentary, although you may not agree with the ways he suggests getting there.

www.aljazeera.com

That isn't Muslims having issues with other religions which is how you described it. That is just them having their own views which as far as I know is not breaking any laws. This is Britain not China or India. Here Jeremy Corbyn who most people consider a marxist was fighting to become PM of the country despite having what most people would describe as loony views.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Hindutva supporters = like Modi more than they like India.

Modi tells them = Muslims are bad = Hindutvas hate Muslims.

If Modi peddled to them that he was a cyborg that wasn't human, they would believe that too. Oh wait...

Can you post a video of Modi telling that Muslims are bad?

 

[sweep_shot]

They are salty because they got dominated by Muslim rulers for over 500 years.

Another reason could be Islam's success. They are jealous of Islam's success probably.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Well here is one example Cap, wanting Shariah Law is a threat to other religions.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’​

If the title were the only issue, maybe it wouldn’t be worth mentioning. But as it is, the documentary What British Muslims Really Think, which aired on Britain’s Channel 4 on April 13, is so full of problems that we might as well start there.

Because it does seem a tiny bit troublesome, suggesting as it does that “British Muslims” all think the same thing and, moreover, that what they tell you isn’t what they’re really thinking.

And as it turns out, these are the two operational premises running through this one-hour documentary. It begins by taking some time to establish the legitimacy of the polling upon which it is based as accurately representing Britain’s population of three million Muslims. We’ll get to the problems with the methodology in a bit.

The poll, we hear, is a “unique new survey”, the findings of which will “shock many” and point to a “looming threat to our very way of life”.

Then it goes on to steadily create the fearful impression of Muslims in the United Kingdom as superficially a part of society – they seem quite nice and friendly, don’t they? – but actually quite dodgy when you get to really know them.

And the trouble is that the Muslims you meet at work or at the shops or on the school run or wherever won’t tell you their “innermost thoughts”, according to this documentary – hence the need for some face-to-face polling.

So, we start with the nice stats about the majority of British Muslims feeling British, feeling an emotional attachment to the country.

Everything seems fine but then, hang on, here are the issues over which British Muslims diverge from the rest of the population – not that this is an “us” and “them” set-up, you understand.

The polling shows that 52 percent of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, a third believe that polygamy is acceptable and nearly a quarter support the implementation of Sharia law.

There’s more, too, about “the equivalent of 100,000 Muslims” – as extrapolated from the polling of 4 percent – having sympathy for suicide bombers, who fight injustice, alongside intolerance for freedom of expression when it comes to portraying the Prophet Muhammad, and also believing that Jews have too much power – at 44 percent.

Beware of ‘What British Muslims Really Think?’

Phillips argues for integration in the documentary, although you may not agree with the ways he suggests getting there.

www.aljazeera.com

What do Brit Pakistanis think about this?

 

[Champ_Pal]

They are salty because they got dominated by Muslim rulers for over 500 years.

Another reason could be Islam's success. They are jealous of Islam's success probably.

Kudos to you. You did say that you ruled us for 500 years

 

[RexRex]

Can you post a video of Modi telling that Muslims are bad?

He said the Congress was going to redistribute wealth towards the invaders, during the election season.

 

[uppercut]

OK lets say Hindus have been wronged by some psychopath Muslim rulers but what this has to do with current Muslim population. German Nazi wiped jews but are Jews today targeting Germans or poor Palestinians?. USA just half a century ago vaporized Japanese brutally and unlawfully but even they don't bear such hostility. So were all other cruel people less barbaric than some muslims or is it the venomic rhetoric that keeps on igniting the fire?

Except for in the case of Muslims they have absilutely no compunctions about Hindus even in the 21st century. Here are just a few prominent examples:

1. Godhra train burning in Broad daylight
2. Numerous terror attacks across length and breadth of India
3. Vehement and dogged opposition to Handing over extremely Sacred Hindu temples that were destroyed and converted to mosques.
4. Love Jihad
5. Resorting to Beheading for offending their beliefs.
6. Harming cows


So the real question is why do Muslims still have this mentality ?

 

[sweep_shot]

4. Love Jihad

What exactly is a "Love Jihad"? It is not a concept in Islam.

Do you think Islam permits premarital relationship or marriage with a polytheist?

It is a made up term.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What exactly is a "Love Jihad"? It is not a concept in Islam.

Do you think Islam permits premarital relationship or marriage with a polytheist?

It is a made up term.

Islam and muslims are two separate topics. We are discussing muslims here.

 

[RexRex]

Except for in the case of Muslims they have absilutely no compunctions about Hindus even in the 21st century. Here are just a few prominent examples:

1. Godhra train burning in Broad daylight
2. Numerous terror attacks across length and breadth of India
3. Vehement and dogged opposition to Handing over extremely Sacred Hindu temples that were destroyed and converted to mosques.
4. Love Jihad
5. Resorting to Beheading for offending their beliefs.
6. Harming cows


So the real question is why do Muslims still have this medieval mentality ?

The question is here is how prevalent these 6 points are among the muslim community. Everything you listed, except for #5, can be attributed to miscreants/islamists rather than the mainstream muslim population.

 

[Champ_Pal]

He said the Congress was going to redistribute wealth towards the invaders, during the election season.

He was referring to illegal Bangladeshis.

Indian Muslims are not invaders. 99% of them are as Indian as it gets.

Giving freebies to illegals when the existing Indian Muslims are suffering in poverty makes no sense.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The question is here is how prevalent these 6 points are among the muslim community. Everything you listed, except for #5, can be attributed to miscreants/islamists rather than the mainstream muslim population.

The other question is how prevalent is this view of Muslims amongst the average Hindu? Because if that sort of image is being spread via social media you can imagine the country would be headed towards more religious wars in the very near future.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The question is here is how prevalent these 6 points are among the muslim community. Everything you listed, except for #5, can be attributed to miscreants/islamists rather than the mainstream muslim population.

I have a friend, who is a police officer in UP. Very well read and liberal person. He said the problem in dealing with muslims was this: When a hindu commits a crime, and the cops go to the village to investigate, most people are forthcoming with their inputs and help the police. But when it is a muslim criminal, and the cops go to investigate in his village, the muslims do not talk, and say we don't know anything. Zero co-operation.

He also told me that it was the muslim majority districts in UP which were the last in eradicating polio, as they would not allow polio drops for their kids.

 

[CricketCartoons]

He said the Congress was going to redistribute wealth towards the invaders, during the election season.

He didn't say invaders, he said ghuspaithiya. Which means illegal immigrants.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Except for in the case of Muslims they have absilutely no compunctions about Hindus even in the 21st century. Here are just a few prominent examples:

1. Godhra train burning in Broad daylight
2. Numerous terror attacks across length and breadth of India
3. Vehement and dogged opposition to Handing over extremely Sacred Hindu temples that were destroyed and converted to mosques.
4. Love Jihad
5. Resorting to Beheading for offending their beliefs.
6. Harming cows


So the real question is why do Muslims still have this medieval mentality ?

Well sorry but non of your points justify the infinite hatred that Hindutva guys express against Muslims.

Point 6 has already been discussed in an earlier thread as a dietary matter. But for argument sack even if we go by your logic that why Indians don't hate people from Vietnam and Thailand where people kill Elephants, another sacred animal, just for ivories. While about cows I already mentioned before that India is the second largest exporter of beef so why not be regretful in the first incident.

On incidents of violence by Muslim please don't share half news just tell us what happen next after such incidents. Gujrat Massacre, Delhi riots??

On beheading opponents, may be you are referring to medieval periods but at that time such punishment tactics were employed by all invading or Victor forces. Even some Indian Kings before suppress their opponents too through this punishment.

On love Jihad, brother sweepshot explained it aptly.

As I said before, let bygones be bygones or otherwise this hatred will never subside but will further entail new hostilities.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well sorry but non of your points justify the infinite hatred that Hindutva guys express against Muslims.

Point 6 has already been discussed in an earlier thread as a dietary matter. But for argument sack even if we go by your logic that why Indians don't hate people from Vietnam and Thailand where people kill Elephants, another sacred animal, just for ivories. While about cows I already mentioned before that India is the second largest exporter of beef so why not be regretful in the first incident.

On incidents of violence by Muslim please don't share half news just tell us what happen next after such incidents. Gujrat Massacre, Delhi riots??

On beheading opponents, may be you are referring to medieval periods but at that time such punishment tactics were employed by all invading or Victor forces. Even some Indian Kings before suppress their opponents too through this punishment.

On love Jihad, brother sweepshot explained it aptly.

As I said before, let bygones be bygones or otherwise this hatred will never subside but will further entail new hostilities.

Ok, we can settle the debate by agreeing that the hatred against muslims is because hindus are hateful people in general, and they have deep inferiority complex, so they try to copy the views of islamophobic whites to compensate their own lack of manliness.

Nothing wrong with the muslims.

 

[Varun]

They are salty because they got dominated by Muslim rulers for over 500 years.

Said "Muslim rulers" hailed from Central Asia or Iran or Mongolia. "They" at the least resisted them unlike yourself and your ancestors who have had to convert. So I'll give them props for that.

 

[RexRex]

I have a friend, who is a police officer in UP. Very well read and liberal person. He said the problem in dealing with muslims was this: When a hindu commits a crime, and the cops go to the village to investigate, most people are forthcoming with their inputs and help the police. But when it is a muslim criminal, and the cops go to investigate in his village, the muslims do not talk, and say we don't know anything. Zero co-operation.

He also told me that it was the muslim majority districts in UP which were the last in eradicating polio, as they would not allow polio drops for their kids.

Regarding polio, there's the ridiculous rumour that vaccines affect your fertility hence why they refuse. It's a question of literacy and lack of education in muslim villages.

As for the muslim criminal thing, what is it that's causing the village people to refuse to cooperate with the police - religious brotherhood ? It seems more like a BIMARU problem to me where distrust of police is common. But happy to keep an open mind and proved wrong.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Regarding polio, there's the ridiculous rumour that vaccines affect your fertility hence why they refuse. It's a question of literacy and lack of education in muslim villages.

As for the muslim criminal thing, what is it that's causing the village people to refuse to cooperate with the police - religious brotherhood ? It seems more like a BIMARU problem to me where distrust of police is common. But happy to keep an open mind and proved wrong.

You think the hindu villages had more literacy? This is UP of the past we are talking about. In his own words: he said that UP has the worst of indians, and as a cop you have to deal with the worst of human species.

More that literacy (massively overrated, it simply means you can read and write, not that you can think logically), it is the exclusionary mindset, that we will do things our way, and the state should let us be without any interference.

 

[RexRex]

He was referring to illegal Bangladeshis.

Indian Muslims are not invaders. 99% of them are as Indian as it gets.

Giving freebies to illegals when the existing Indian Muslims are suffering in poverty makes no sense.

It was a dogwhistle for the muslim community and you know it.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Current muslims in india have nothing to do with what someone did in the past.

BUT

If they idolize and venerate those who wronged hindus, then they are also participants and can no longer claim innocence.

OK fine so what about those who idolize Narendra Modi, the - - - - - - of gujrat?

 

[Champ_Pal]

It was a dogwhistle for the muslim community and you know it.

How are Indian Muslims invaders

 

[Local.Dada]

It was a dogwhistle for the muslim community and you know it.

You are saying “entire Muslim community” right.

Usually on the flip side you would say “Hindutvas got offended this that, not true Hindus ” kind of your own categorization of Hindus.

Interesting way to display secularism

 

[Stewie]

What people need to ask is, why muslims are overwhelmingly in conflict with other religions worldwide?

Are they in conflict because of their religion or other reason, is what people need to ask.

If you are going to point fingers at Al-Qaeda or Taliban or ISIS, I have to say there is a deeper understanding needed regarding those conflicts. They are/were mainly political issues. Bin Laden did not like American presence on KSA soil and opposed the Saudi family, and ended up in conflict with the Americans. Taliban had sheltered him because he helped them during the Soviet war, they got embroiled in the war. ISIS was a whole different Syrian thing prompted thanks to the Arab Spring orchestratation. These were all different politically motivated conflicts with no grounding in the religion. We all know all the wars in the middle east are fought over oil.

It just so happens most of these countries are majority Muslim states. So drawing a conclusion that Muslims or Islam have something to do with it is an incorrect deduction.

That being said the nature of conflict between Hindus and Muslims of the the sub-continent has a totally different texture and is probably more related to the difference in faith.. but has obvious political reasons behind it as well.

 

[Local.Dada]

OK fine so what about those who idolize Narendra Modi, the - - - - - - of gujrat?

Keep repeating that, won’t matter he is the 3 times democratically elected Pm of India.

Worry more about playboy of Mianwali who is getting belt treatment in jail despite popular support.

 

[Stewie]

Said "Muslim rulers" hailed from Central Asia or Iran or Mongolia. "They" at the least resisted them unlike yourself and your ancestors who have had to convert. So I'll give them props for that.

Just FYI, the spread of Islam in the sub-continent is documented before these invaders. It was spread through trade with Arabs and later the Sufi movement, particularly in the Punjab area. So while its true the conquerors from Persia may have forced conversions but giving them all the credit for it is historically inaccurate.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Are they in conflict because of their religion or other reason, is what people need to ask.

If you are going to point fingers at Al-Qaeda or Taliban or ISIS, I have to say there is a deeper understanding needed regarding those conflicts. They are/were mainly political issues. Bin Laden did not like American presence on KSA soil and opposed the Saudi family, and ended up in conflict with the Americans. Taliban had sheltered him because he helped them during the Soviet war, they got embroiled in the war. ISIS was a whole different Syrian thing prompted thanks to the Arab Spring orchestratation. These were all different politically motivated conflicts with no grounding in the religion. We all know all the wars in the middle east are fought over oil.

It just so happens most of these countries are majority Muslim states. So drawing a conclusion that Muslims or Islam have something to do with it is an incorrect deduction.

That being said the nature of conflict between Hindus and Muslims of the the sub-continent has a totally different texture and is probably more related to the difference in faith.. but has obvious political reasons behind it as well.

Nothing to be apologetic about that you have to write a long passage to deflect criticism.

Muslims have what we call "a growth mindset". It is their nature to expand, to adapt and conquer and to rule. Something to be proud of. Naturally when someone expands, those who lose their ground will hold resentment. Resentment towards muslims is because of the muslims success.

They were literally goat and camel herders before Islam united them and gave them a purpose. They went on conquering everything on their way. Then they translated knowledge of the greeks, persians and indians, and made advancement in every field. That was their golden period. The industrial revolution was a major setback for them and gave the europeans an upper hand, which has continued to this day. But muslims adapted to this setback too, and are now on their way to conquer europe. Even the rise of atheism weakened christian and hindu societies, but wasn't able to penetrate muslim society.

It is only natural that those who lose their turf will hold resentment towards those who are the conquerors or beneficiaries of their loss.

Islam has everything to do with muslims growth and progress. It is the correct deduction. Don't try to dismiss it.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Kudos to you. You did say that you ruled us for 500 years

Muslims ruled over various parts of India for approximately 1,000 years

 

[FearlessRoar]

OK fine so what about those who idolize Narendra Modi, the - - - - - - of gujrat?

Butcher of Gujrat

 

[Local.Dada]

Muslims ruled over various parts of India for approximately 1,000 years

By the same logic Hindus ruled parts of India for 5000+ yrs lol some time more and some times lesser territory but they did accomplish that. I am not of any royal lineage so not sure if I should celebrate or feel bad about the lost territories but congrats if you are owning that achievement

 

[uppercut]

The question is here is how prevalent these 6 points are among the muslim community. Everything you listed, except for #5, can be attributed to miscreants/islamists rather than the mainstream muslim population.

What evidence would I need to produce to prove to you that the tendency for Intolerance, violence, extremism is far more prevalent amongst muslims than others? What must happen in order for you to recognize the problem which is very obvious to see ?

And before you respond to that question... please make sure that you will stick around and comitt to a lengthy mature, facts and logic based discussion considering your past tendencies to resort to ad-hominem , getting personal or just plain abuse/insults and such like when facts get in the way of your ultra left leaning standpoint.

Decide and answer that question as I do not want to waste time discussing with you as you generally do not have the discipline to engage in serious discussions especially when very uncomfortable facts exposing your shallow understanding of such topics comes out in the open and you start getting hostile and personal. Iam not here to exchange barbs.

 

[sweep_shot]

Said "Muslim rulers" hailed from Central Asia or Iran or Mongolia. "They" at the least resisted them unlike yourself and your ancestors who have had to convert. So I'll give them props for that.

It doesn't really matter where they hail from. A Muslim is a Muslim.

Very glad the folks in subcontinent converted.

Don't think all were converted forcefully, BTW.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

That's just a plain lie. If it was a true statement then there would be no Pakistan to begin with. And remember there was no radical hindutva organization that was after muslims when the idea of Pakistan was conceptualized.


Once you accept that reality you will automatically get the answers to your question.

No, I think mate you are forgetting about Hindu Mahasabha that came in being in 1925. Also about Punjab Mahasbha in 1910s. And what about Shuddi and Sanghtan movements. Don't pretend to be this naive man.

Congress ministries 1937 etc...also

 

[uppercut]

It doesn't really matter where they hail from. A Muslim is a Muslim.

Very glad the folks in subcontinent converted.

Don't think all were converted forcefully, BTW.

I mean how did that sentiment work out in 1971 considering that the number of people Massacred is soo large that it beggars belief. Moreover it was the supposedly evil Hindu army of India that came in and saved your entire country .... and here you are spouting your usual drivel ?

 

[sweep_shot]

I mean how did that sentiment work out in 1971 considering that the number of people Massacred is soo large that it beggars belief. Moreover it was the supposedly evil Hindu army of India that came in and saved your entire country .... and here you are spouting your usual drivel ?

Pakistan mostly targeted Mukti Bahini I believe.

Anyway, 1971 happened over 50 years ago. Time to move forward.

 

[deltexas]

Pakistan mostly targeted Mukti Bahini I believe.

Anyway, 1971 happened over 50 years ago. Time to move forward.

So because it was a Muslim its Ok ??? Its justified ? Just shows your mindset. Jeez the hypocrisy. If this was a Hindu or Chr majority army that did this - you would have been cricitising it every other post of yours.