Why is there a difference in perception between Pakistan & India in the world?

[CricketCartoons]

My claims have been answered, just not enough to appease your insecurities, this is your problem not mine.

In fact, you have answered some of my claims using your own words.

There is no challenge here, expect with your inner self.

No you are running away from answering my question and your claims: Let me summarise.

1. How is your being a dual citizen beneficial to UK as opposed to your being solely a British citizen?

2. How are you equally loyal to both UK and Pakistan?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yeah I did claim I'm loyal to both. What's your problem or the problem here? I tell you what it is, you cannot understand how one can be loyal to 2 nations because you yourself are torn between locality. Ergo no matter what answer I or explanation I provide, it will never satisfy you, that is, unless you address your personal inner conflicts.

I'm still amazed at how you answered the question on investments all by yourself.

 

[Madplayer]

No you are running away from answering my question and your claims: Let me summarise.

1. How is your being a dual citizen beneficial to UK as opposed to your being solely a British citizen?

2. How are you equally loyal to both UK and Pakistan?

Most common people dont find themselves in a position where they have to prove their loyalty in any way.

Just pay your taxes and dont commit any crime and you are loyal enough.

 

[R3verse Swing]

No you are running away from answering my question and your claims: Let me summarise.

1. How is your being a dual citizen beneficial to UK as opposed to your being solely a British citizen?

2. How are you equally loyal to both UK and Pakistan?

I'm not running away. I answered before, you accepted. You also provided an explanation on how nations can benefit through shared investment.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Readers should note that none of the links reveal a British citizenship can be revoked by law, only the Home Secretary can *apply* to revoke, and that to via the courts.

This is the complete opposite of the Indian constitution which automatically revokes citizenship, by law.

No court approval is required. The home secretary can rescind the citizenship. He doesnt need to give a reason even.

In your effort of namak halaali you lie and make so many false claims.
[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]
[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]

"
Under section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981, as amended in 2006, the home secretary may make an order depriving a person of citizenship status if they are "satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good". No reasons need be given and no court approval is required.

"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21783475

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yeah I did claim I'm loyal to both. What's your problem or the problem here? I tell you what it is, you cannot understand how one can be loyal to 2 nations because you yourself are torn between locality. Ergo no matter what answer I or explanation I provide, it will never satisfy you, that is, unless you address your personal inner conflicts.

I'm still amazed at how you answered the question on investments all by yourself.

The problem here that you are finding excuses for avoiding answering the two questions I posted. It is fine if you don't want to, I will let you go. Because I derive no pleasure in seeing you struggling to answer.

My point stands. Dual citizenship = dubious loyalty.

Come back to challenge this if you can answer the 2 questions I posed.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Most common people dont find themselves in a position where they have to prove their loyalty in any way.

Just pay your taxes and dont commit any crime and you are loyal enough.

Well said.

Which is why I think CricketCartoon is in a position where he has to prove his loyalty which explains why he is seeking the help off others.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The problem here that you are finding excuses for avoiding answering the two questions I posted. It is fine if you don't want to, I will let you go. Because I derive no pleasure in seeing you struggling to answer.

My point stands. Dual citizenship = dubious loyalty.

Come back to challenge this if you can answer the 2 questions I posed.

I answered all your question, you even answered 1 question by yourself.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Most common people dont find themselves in a position where they have to prove their loyalty in any way.

Just pay your taxes and dont commit any crime and you are loyal enough.

Yes, that is being loyal enough. That is why I didn't call my old friend reverse swing beghairat, because he is the best a dual citizen can be. The point is that dual citizenship by its very nature makes it impossible to have undivided loyalty. Therefore single citizenship is superior to dual citizenship.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I answered all your question, you even answered 1 question by yourself.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Sorry, you need to re read the question if you think it has been answered. Expected better from you.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well said.

Which is why I think CricketCartoon is in a position where he has to prove his loyalty which explains why he is seeking the help off others.

I never made any claim about being loyal. You did. You claimed to be "equally loyal". Failed to prove it. Now again making false claims. Prove whose help I am seeking? Why do you lie?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Both myself and KingKhanWC have stated that if you are British born, your citizenship cannot be taken away from you. Unlike in India and Bangladesh where are native born will be stripped of their citizenship automatically if they decide to seek a better life elsewhere.

None of the laws or examples cited are applicable to British Born, but to citizens who *applied* for British nationality. So not relevant. Even then, the examples are of those who have been stripped off due to Terrorism charges, had to go through court – not through auto-citizenship by law. The law describes the process.

There is no automatic shedding of citizenship in the UK, let alone on British born in the UK – this is a fact.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I never made any claim about being loyal. You did. You claimed to be "equally loyal". Failed to prove it. Now again making false claims. Prove whose help I am seeking? Why do you lie?

Why do I have to prove I am equally loyal? As shown, no answer will satisfy your insecurity. Your point has been reduced to money and even then you cannot figure out that one can be equally loyal by splitting their money 50/50.

As for lies, the only lie here is the your false flag.

 

[R3verse Swing]

My point stands. Dual citizenship = dubious loyalty.

OK, so what? You base this on your struggles and experience. I cannot change your experiences or hardship.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yes, that is being loyal enough. That is why I didn't call my old friend reverse swing beghairat, because he is the best a dual citizen can be. The point is that dual citizenship by its very nature makes it impossible to have undivided loyalty. Therefore single citizenship is superior to dual citizenship.

So this has been your point all along. Superiority. I should have guessed.

Your statement fits in so well with the OP and the original discussion. Indians feels they are superior thus command respect worldwide! Question is of course, why?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Both myself and KingKhanWC have stated that if you are British born, your citizenship cannot be taken away from you. Unlike in India and Bangladesh where are native born will be stripped of their citizenship automatically if they decide to seek a better life elsewhere.

None of the laws or examples cited are applicable to British Born, but to citizens who *applied* for British nationality. So not relevant. Even then, the examples are of those who have been stripped off due to Terrorism charges, had to go through court – not through auto-citizenship by law. The law describes the process.

There is no automatic shedding of citizenship in the UK, let alone on British born in the UK – this is a fact.

You and kkwc lied. Anyone's British citizenship can be taken. Including British Born. Facts are what credible organisations like BBC or The Guardian write and not what habitual liars state on a forum. No amount of namak can change that.


" British citizenship used to be close to irrevocable for those born in Britain, but that is no longer true. "


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21783475

Infact it is easier to revoke British nationality of dual citizens even British Born. Infact British borns have lost citizenship.


"

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.

"


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/30/uk-has-stripped-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

 

[R3verse Swing]

LOL! BBC and the Guardian are above British Law. Media outlets! Where's the Dailymail when you need them!

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why do I have to prove I am equally loyal? As shown, no answer will satisfy your insecurity. Your point has been reduced to money and even then you cannot figure out that one can be equally loyal by splitting their money 50/50.

As for lies, the only lie here is the your false flag.

That is your prerogative not to answer. Understandable when you don't have an answer.

Money is just one aspect of loyalty. I could have questioned on many things, but I used money as it is measurable. If you are equally loyal, why did you choose to live in one and not the other? You made a choice. You preferred one over the other ( a good decision btw).

You never proved how the money will be split 50/50 because it will be coming back to one country eventually.

You also never proved how being a dual citizen (UK + Pakistan) is beneficial to UK as opposed to being solely UK citizen.

Sad to see you losing your mojo. You were a legend once upon a time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

LOL! BBC and the Guardian are above British Law. Media outlets! Where's the Dailymail when you need them!

They have interpreted the British law. Clearly they have a better understanding of the law and better experts than you.British Born have had their citizenship revoked and it has been reported by media outlets.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship

 

[R3verse Swing]

That is your prerogative not to answer. Understandable when you don't have an answer.

Money is just one aspect of loyalty. I could have questioned on many things, but I used money as it is measurable. If you are equally loyal, why did you choose to live in one and not the other? You made a choice. You preferred one over the other ( a good decision btw).

You never proved how the money will be split 50/50 because it will be coming back to one country eventually.

You also never proved how being a dual citizen (UK + Pakistan) is beneficial to UK as opposed to being solely UK citizen.

Sad to see you losing your mojo. You were a legend once upon a time.

So now I have to prove how to split money 50/50? Are you for real?

All of this is meaningless anyhow since your point is that a single-citizenship is more superior to dual citizenship. This sense of superiority is now the point, not my claims on dual nationality or rights etc.

So lets move on, why do you feel you are superior because you have a single citizenship? Is it because India/Bangladesh do not permit dual nationality?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some people seem to be in a state of shock. Denying the fact wont change it. Acceptance will come with time.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It's not the BBC's or Guardian's understanding of the law, it's the understanding of one's English that comes into question.

 

[Traveller55]

You and kkwc lied. Anyone's British citizenship can be taken. Including British Born. Facts are what credible organisations like BBC or The Guardian write and not what habitual liars state on a forum. No amount of namak can change that.


" British citizenship used to be close to irrevocable for those born in Britain, but that is no longer true. "


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21783475

Infact it is easier to revoke British nationality of dual citizens even British Born. Infact British borns have lost citizenship.


"

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.

"


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

Thank you for proving Reverse Swing to be wrong by citing evidence.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So now I have to prove how to split money 50/50? Are you for real?

All of this is meaningless anyhow since your point is that a single-citizenship is more superior to dual citizenship. This sense of superiority is now the point, not my claims on dual nationality or rights etc.

So lets move on, why do you feel you are superior because you have a single citizenship? Is it because India/Bangladesh do not permit dual nationality?

Yes, prove how your money will end up remaining in Pakistan and UK equally. No temporary parking for benefits.

Having single citizenship doesnt make me superior to you (why are you so insecure lol). Single citizenship as a concept is superior to dual citizenship, as it demands full allegiance.

You are still the best a dual citizen should be, and I dare say even if dual citizenship is a rotten concept, I would want all dual citizens to be like you, because at least you profess to be equally loyal to both countries.

You would have been superior to yourself were you a single citizen of UK (ceteris paribus). That is the point.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ultimately the point which lead to the expansion of the dual nationality conversation was the point of superiority. It took a while to get there, but we are here. Indians believe that a single citizenship makes them superior to dual nationals, (why this is only they can answer) yet it is this single citizenship that singles out Indians when it comes to UK immigration. This is why Modi begged TM to relax the immigration rules with respect to Indian immigrants.

Moving on, this single citizenship moulds into a pseudo citizenship when the likes of Freddie Mercury and Ben Kingsley are considered Indian. Bizarre but true, but in the same breath the likes of Ketih Vaz and perpetrators of IA182 are not considered Indian. Amazing when one considers, Freddie Mercury, Ben Kingsley, Keith Vaz, and perpetrators of IA182 – are all of Indian ethnicity to some degree.

The sense of superiority is precisely one of the reasons why the perception of Indians is far worse than Pakistanis. Pakistani may have their faults, but they are not in the same league as Indians who believe they are superior, and as such demand absolute unconditional respect. I feel this sense stems from the stigma attached with the British Empire – known as inferiority complex.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You would have been superior to yourself were you a single citizen of UK (ceteris paribus). That is the point.

Don't try and wriggle yourself out of this one.

I do not wish to be superior. Let me guess, want me to prove this as well?

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's not the BBC's or Guardian's understanding of the law, it's the understanding of one's English that comes into question.

British borns can have their citizenship revoked. It has been revoked in the past and that fact has been reported by media.

The language is hardly of any significance.

 

[R3verse Swing]

"Language is of no significance in law". Now I have heard everything! Coming from the guys who still believe UK has a constitution. There is no helping. Oh well.

 

[Traveller55]

Ultimately the point which lead to the expansion of the dual nationality conversation was the point of superiority. It took a while to get there, but we are here. Indians believe that a single citizenship makes them superior to dual nationals, (why this is only they can answer) yet it is this single citizenship that singles out Indians when it comes to UK immigration. This is why Modi begged TM to relax the immigration rules with respect to Indian immigrants.

Moving on, this single citizenship moulds into a pseudo citizenship when the likes of Freddie Mercury and Ben Kingsley are considered Indian. Bizarre but true, but in the same breath the likes of Ketih Vaz and perpetrators of IA182 are not considered Indian. Amazing when one considers, Freddie Mercury, Ben Kingsley, Keith Vaz, and perpetrators of IA182 – are all of Indian ethnicity to some degree.

The sense of superiority is precisely one of the reasons why the perception of Indians is far worse than Pakistanis. Pakistani may have their faults, but they are not in the same league as Indians who believe they are superior, and as such demand absolute unconditional respect. I feel this sense stems from the stigma attached with the British Empire – known as inferiority complex.

Except the bolded part isn't true. Even most posters on this thread agree that Indians enjoy a better reputation than Pakistanis (while some argue that average westerners can't tell the difference).

As for stigmas attached to the British Empire- if there is any such stigma, then Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans share that stigma equally. They did rule over ALL of us.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Except the bolded part isn't true. Even most posters on this thread agree that Indians enjoy a better reputation than Pakistanis (while some argue that average westerners can't tell the difference).

As for stigmas attached to the British Empire- if there is any such stigma, then Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans share that stigma equally. They did rule over ALL of us.

How can you say it is not true? You speak from a North America perspective, I am talking from a UK perspective. Let's face it, in the NA they couldn't tell the difference anyway!

The stigma of the British Empire is surely with Indians. Pakistanis have long forgotten about the British rule, gained independence, and are just getting on with life. Indians on the other hand can't survive a day without mentioning the British. Life is always a comparison for them, always on the defensive.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You and kkwc lied. Anyone's British citizenship can be taken. Including British Born. Facts are what credible organisations like BBC or The Guardian write and not what habitual liars state on a forum. No amount of namak can change that.


" British citizenship used to be close to irrevocable for those born in Britain, but that is no longer true. "


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21783475

Infact it is easier to revoke British nationality of dual citizens even British Born. Infact British borns have lost citizenship.


"

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.

"


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

That is itself a lie. Any British born can't have their citizenship revoked. The examples in that article are of people with dual citizenship. If they have only British citizenship they can't have their citizenship revoked.

 

[R3verse Swing]

That is itself a lie. Any British born can't have their citizenship revoked. The examples in that article are of people with dual citizenship. If they have only British citizenship they can't have their citizenship revoked.

Thank you Captain.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thank you Captain.

My pleasure. I suggest we retire from this thread now as the debate has ended in victory for the dual Pak/Brit citizen and the native Brit of Pak lineage. The thread can now be closed.

 

[R3verse Swing]

My pleasure. I suggest we retire from this thread now as the debate has ended in victory for the dual Pak/Brit citizen and the native Brit of Pak lineage. The thread can now be closed.

Agreed.

 

[Traveller55]

How can you say it is not true? You speak from a North America perspective, I am talking from a UK perspective. Let's face it, in the NA they couldn't tell the difference anyway!

Neither am I talking from North American perspective, nor are you talking about UK perspective. Don't get too big for your breeches - we are talking from OUR perspectives. Unless ofcourse, you can cite studies that show the NA/UK perspectives.

What we can see in this very thread, is the opinion of most people that Indians are seen in better light than Pakistanis and several have tried to give reasons for it.

So your individual opinion, is in the minority, in this very thread.

The stigma of the British Empire is surely with Indians. Pakistanis have long forgotten about the British rule, gained independence, and are just getting on with life. Indians on the other hand can't survive a day without mentioning the British. Life is always a comparison for them, always on the defensive.

I see no evidence of this, this is just your opinion packaged as some sort of 'fact'. All subcontinentals talk about the British rule from time to time in my experience.

 

[Traveller55]

That is itself a lie. Any British born can't have their citizenship revoked. The examples in that article are of people with dual citizenship. If they have only British citizenship they can't have their citizenship revoked.

Since KKWC and RS won't provide any evidence of this assertion (which they also have made), can you please supply us the relevant laws that state so ??

 

[R3verse Swing]

Neither am I talking from North American perspective, nor are you talking about UK perspective. Don't get too big for your breeches - we are talking from OUR perspectives. Unless ofcourse, you can cite studies that show the NA/UK perspectives.

Yes from OUR perceptive, and my perspective is from the UK. Why do you always end up undermining yourself? Don't get too smart.

What we can see in this very thread, is the opinion of most people that Indians are seen in better light than Pakistanis and several have tried to give reasons for it.

So your individual opinion, is in the minority, in this very thread.

Evidence or it’s just your opinion like everyone else’s in this thread. Again undermining yourself.

I see no evidence of this, this is just your opinion packaged as some sort of 'fact'. All subcontinentals talk about the British rule from time to time in my experience.

Anecdotal evidence is plentiful. Indians talk more about the British Empire than anyone from the subcontinent. It’s crystal clear even on these forums, and in comments sections of the news [BBC for example]. Any talk of the British Empire, and the Indians come flooding in.

The thing is you are not consistent with any point you make. Example, you claimed AI182 bombers were not Indian but Canadian given their nationality, yet in the same breath you claim you are Banlgadeshi while being a dual national of USA/UK. Why is it that ethnicity is ignored with AI182, and not you? See?

I am going to take the Captains advice here, there’s no point.

 

[Traveller55]

That is itself a lie. Any British born can't have their citizenship revoked. The examples in that article are of people with dual citizenship. If they have only British citizenship they can't have their citizenship revoked.

My pleasure. I suggest we retire from this thread now as the debate has ended in victory for the dual Pak/Brit citizen and the native Brit of Pak lineage. The thread can now be closed.

Actually the Pak/Brit citizen has been proven wrong from his fundamental point : that citizenship is a right, not a priviledge.
Obviously, single-citizenships cannot be revoked as a matter of political logistics - if you leave a person stateless, then you cannot necessarily process them as anything.

However, CJ has convincingly destroyed the point that if you are born British Citizen, your British citizenship cannot be revoked - it can and it has been, as evidenced, if one holds a dual citizenship.

This destroys RS's point, since countries he is panning, like India, Bangladesh etc- they do not revoke citizenships of single-citizenship holders either, they only do it to multiple citizenship holders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That is itself a lie. Any British born can't have their citizenship revoked. The examples in that article are of people with dual citizenship. If they have only British citizenship they can't have their citizenship revoked.

Read the first article. Even if you are eligible for another citizenship but dont hold it yet your british citizenship can be taken. I am not saying it BBC is.

 

[Traveller55]

Yes from OUR perceptive, and my perspective is from the UK. Why do you always end up undermining yourself? Don't get too smart.

You are peddling your personal opinion as a general fact. that is what I am trying to point out. Your perspective is only your individual perspective, not representational of UK perspective. Same corollary applies to me.

Evidence or it’s just your opinion like everyone else’s in this thread. Again undermining yourself.

If you need evidence that in this thread most people think Indians have a better reputation than Pakistanis, I suggest you learn to read the thread better. Most people here have already acknowledged this.

Anecdotal evidence is plentiful. Indians talk more about the British Empire than anyone from the subcontinent. It’s crystal clear even on these forums, and in comments sections of the news [BBC for example]. Any talk of the British Empire, and the Indians come flooding in.

My anecdotal evidence suggests that Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis all talk equally about the British Empire. Obviously there will be nearly 10 times more Indians posting on BBC- there are 10 times more Indians than Bangladeshis or Pakistanis !!

The thing is you are not consistent with any point you make. Example, you claimed AI182 bombers were not Indian but Canadian given their nationality, yet in the same breath you claim you are Banlgadeshi while being a dual national of USA/UK. Why is it that ethnicity is ignored with AI182, and not you? See?

Because the AI182 bombers were mostly BORN CANADIANS. I am Born Pakistani/Bangladeshi. This has already been explained before, do try to read better.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Agreed.

You might as well hold a debate with the BJP information minister. One of those you are 'debating' with is a self confessed strident supporter of the BJP government, and the other 'Bangladeshi/Kashmiri' has just admitted he too is a fan of the Hindutva party leading India today.

There's about much chance of them seeing reason as there is of a Brit thinking Ben Kingsley or Freddie Mercury are Indian.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Read the first article. Even if you are eligible for another citizenship but dont hold it yet your british citizenship can be taken. I am not saying it BBC is.

You said ANYONE can have their citizenship revoked. That is a clear and blatant lie.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Since KKWC and RS won't provide any evidence of this assertion (which they also have made), can you please supply us the relevant laws that state so ??

Had you cared to read the articles, instead of giving high fives, you would not have asked this question.

Being eligible is not the same as having a citizenship.

From the articles cited:

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.

As Cpt Rishwat has pointed out, and as I and KKWC have stated, a British Born cannot be stripped of their citizenship! Why? It would render them stateless. Hence why ALL the examples cited are with respect to dual nationals and are irrelevant!

You need to get into your head that UK law is based on precedence, not a constitution. Do you understand what this means?

 

[Traveller55]

You might as well hold a debate with the BJP information minister. One of those you are 'debating' with is a self confessed strident supporter of the BJP government, and the other 'Bangladeshi/Kashmiri' has just admitted he too is a fan of the Hindutva party leading India today.

There's about much chance of them seeing reason as there is of a Brit thinking Ben Kingsley or Freddie Mercury are Indian.

You seem to lack nuance if you think 'not too concerned' = fan.
There is a huge spectrum between being a fan and being cautiously watchful.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You are peddling your personal opinion as a general fact. that is what I am trying to point out. Your perspective is only your individual perspective, not representational of UK perspective. Same corollary applies to me.

If you need evidence that in this thread most people think Indians have a better reputation than Pakistanis, I suggest you learn to read the thread better. Most people here have already acknowledged this.



My anecdotal evidence suggests that Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis all talk equally about the British Empire. Obviously there will be nearly 10 times more Indians posting on BBC- there are 10 times more Indians than Bangladeshis or Pakistanis !!



Because the AI182 bombers were mostly BORN CANADIANS. I am Born Pakistani/Bangladeshi. This has already been explained before, do try to read better.

OK I honestly have no idea what you are going on about now.

 

[Traveller55]

Had you cared to read the articles, instead of giving high fives, you would not have asked this question.

Being eligible is not the same as having a citizenship.

From the articles cited:



As Cpt Rishwat has pointed out, and as I and KKWC have stated, a British Born cannot be stripped of their citizenship! Why? It would render them stateless. Hence why ALL the examples cited are with respect to dual nationals and are irrelevant!

You need to get into your head that UK law is based on precedence, not a constitution. Do you understand what this means?

All examples cited for dual citizenship is what is relevant. Because your contention is British-born citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenships. false and already proven false : British born citizens can be stripped of their citizenships IF they acquire other citizenships.
Similarly, Indian or Bangladeshi born people cannot be stripped of their citizenships either- UNLESS they acquire a secondary citizenship, when it is automatically revoked.

So your entire premise that citizenship is an inalienable right and Britain follows that right,is proven false, as it is alienable in certain conditions, such as getting dual citizenships and then pissing off the British government.

 

[Traveller55]

OK I honestly have no idea what you are going on about now.

Why am I not surprised.

 

[R3verse Swing]

All examples cited for dual citizenship is what is relevant. Because your contention is British-born citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenships. false and already proven false : British born citizens can be stripped of their citizenships IF they acquire other citizenships.
Similarly, Indian or Bangladeshi born people cannot be stripped of their citizenships either- UNLESS they acquire a secondary citizenship, when it is automatically revoked.

So your entire premise that citizenship is an inalienable right and Britain follows that right,is proven false, as it is alienable in certain conditions, such as getting dual citizenships and then pissing off the British government.

Okay, even in light of evidence which you did not read, evidence which you hoped falsified claims, believing UK has a constitution, you are coming out with the hymn above and still clinging on.

I must admire your tenacity – that’s as far as it goes.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why am I not surprised.

You should be because you are inadvertently agree with me.

 

[Traveller55]

You should be because you are inadvertently agree with me.

You need a lesson in English if you think that was agreement.

 

[Traveller55]

Okay, even in light of evidence which you did not read, evidence which you hoped falsified claims, believing UK has a constitution, you are coming out with the hymn above and still clinging on.

I must admire your tenacity – that’s as far as it goes.

Your claim that citizenship is an inalienable right has already been proven false. You claimed earlier in the thread that UK citizenship is a right - well CJ has proven that the said 'right' can be revoked at UK government's will if you acquire a 2nd citizenship.
Game over, you lost, now don't be a sore loser.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your claim that citizenship is an inalienable right has already been proven false. You claimed earlier in the thread that UK citizenship is a right - well CJ has proven that the said 'right' can be revoked at UK government's will if you acquire a 2nd citizenship.
Game over, you lost, now don't be a sore loser.

Even better


"


it was not necessary for the person to hold another nationality before losing UK citizenship, provided they were deemed eligible to seek a passport from another country."

From BBC.

The shock is too much for our Brit Pakistani friends.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Your claim that citizenship is an inalienable right has already been proven false. You claimed earlier in the thread that UK citizenship is a right - well CJ has proven that the said 'right' can be revoked at UK government's will if you acquire a 2nd citizenship.
Game over, you lost, now don't be a sore loser.

Liar.

Check post 271, I stated Health and Education were a right

For example, in the USA, health and education are a privileges. In the UK, health and education are rights..

Your response in #273 demanded Citizenship being a right via a citation from a non existent British constitution!

Feel free to point out where in the UK constitution it says citizenship of UK, once granted, is a right.

My response in post #274

UK does not have a constitution so the rest of your point does not apply.

And time after time it has been pointed out British born Citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenship. Even the evidence refutes your self fallacious claim. Even Cpt. Rishwat has exposed your false claim. You are the one making stuff up!

All of it in English, and in your words.

Now stop blagging and playing word salad. You were proven wrong, accept this fact, and move on. You have been chasing your own tail, your own fallacious argument, and have embarrassed and undermined yourself enough!

Oh by the way, the fact you were born Bangladeshi and now are an USA/Canadian but still claim you are Bangladeshi, draws such a beautiful parallel to your gender thread. You were born a Bangladeshi, feel like a USA/Canadian national, but still refer yourself as a Bangladeshi.

Have a great weekend!

 

[Traveller55]

And time after time it has been pointed out British born Citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenship. Even the evidence refutes your self fallacious claim. Even Cpt. Rishwat has exposed your false claim. You are the one making stuff up!

The only one making up stuff is you. CJ has already proven that British born citizens CAN be stripped of their citizenships IF they acquire a secondary citizenship.
You have shown zero evidence of your claim- as per usual.

Now stop blagging and playing word salad. You were proven wrong, accept this fact, and move on. You have been chasing your own tail, your own fallacious argument, and have embarrassed and undermined yourself enough!

Your claim, that British born citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenship, has been proven false. Your opposition has presented the evidence, you have been unable to present counter-evidence.

Oh by the way, the fact you were born Bangladeshi and now are an USA/Canadian but still claim you are Bangladeshi, draws such a beautiful parallel to your gender thread. You were born a Bangladeshi, feel like a USA/Canadian national, but still refer yourself as a Bangladeshi.

Except it doesn't, since gender thread, where you failed to substantiate your flawed opinions, has already proven that gender identity has a biological basis. There is no biological basis to considering oneself Bangladshi, Russian, Indian or Pakistani.

I see you are still bitter about being defeated in that thread via evidence which is why you keep harping on it elsewhere. But its not considered good form to mix topics from various threads.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The only one making up stuff is you. CJ has already proven that British born citizens CAN be stripped of their citizenships IF they acquire a secondary citizenship.
You have shown zero evidence of your claim- as per usual.




Your claim, that British born citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenship, has been proven false. Your opposition has presented the evidence, you have been unable to present counter-evidence.



Except it doesn't, since gender thread, where you failed to substantiate your flawed opinions, has already proven that gender identity has a biological basis. There is no biological basis to considering oneself Bangladshi, Russian, Indian or Pakistani.

I see you are still bitter about being defeated in that thread via evidence which is why you keep harping on it elsewhere. But its not considered good form to mix topics from various threads.

Don;t change the subject.

Where did I say Citizenship is a right? You made the claim now back it up.

 

[R3verse Swing]

To the others who believed India allows dual nationality, you got schooled. I am not going to apologise for the lack of understanding on your part when it comes to the Indian constitution, it was in English. Though not a word since, even from the ardent BJP supporters.

To Indians living abroad; you cannot vote in India, you cannot buy land in India, you cannot hold certain jobs in India - you have less rights in India. Why are you defending India? Your Indian government doesn’t recognise you as Indian. The perception of you is suffering worldwide as a result.

It's been fun.

Have a great weekend!

 

[R3verse Swing]

By the way Traveller55, my question in post #377 was rhetorical, meaning no need to answer it, not that you could anyway!

Best!

 

[CricketCartoons]

To the others who believed India allows dual nationality, you got schooled. I am not going to apologise for the lack of understanding on your part when it comes to the Indian constitution, it was in English. Though not a word since, even from the ardent BJP supporters.

To Indians living abroad; you cannot vote in India, you cannot buy land in India, you cannot hold certain jobs in India - you have less rights in India. Why are you defending India? Your Indian government doesn’t recognise you as Indian. The perception of you is suffering worldwide as a result.

It's been fun.

Have a great weekend!

Bhai, when will you answer the 2 questions I raised.

 

[Traveller55]

Don;t change the subject.

Where did I say Citizenship is a right? You made the claim now back it up.

Plenty of times you've insinuated it:

• 
  #249: "Divorcing may strip you off assets but not your birth right nationality! "
  
  #251: "What is astonishing is while an Indian can be stripped of his birthright nationality"
  
  #254: "
  Immigrating is one thing, what about inheriting the nationality of a country where one is born, and the nationality of one's ethnic background? After all we don't get choose where we are born, or choose our ethniticy, and in an Indian's case, which caste. "
  
  #266: " Nationality is about rights"
  

Now, I know you don't have the integrity to admit it, but CJ has proven you wrong that British nationality isn't a birthright, it can be revoked if the British government feels like it and the subject has applied for foreign citizenship.

So your point, that One cannot have one's citizenship revoked, if they are British born, is proven false by CJ's evidence : you can be a british born person but if you **** off the British government and apply for say German citizenship, they can strip you of the citizenship.

As I said, you've lost on both the points (that citizenship is a birthright and that natural born citizens of UK cannot be stripped of citizenship).

 

[Traveller55]

By the way Traveller55, my question in post #377 was rhetorical, meaning no need to answer it, not that you could anyway!

Best!

It would be nice if you could count. Your question was in #375.

The only thing that can't happen, is citation of evidence from Reverse Swing. That much, is known and stands true by evidence.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Plenty of times you've insinuated it:

Insinuated something is NOT the same as stating it.

All this waffle from you based on what you thought and not what I had stated.

Wouldn't even get to court, that's how bad your English is.

I regret wasting my time with you.

Lesson learned I guess.

 

[Traveller55]

Insinuated something is NOT the same as stating it.

All this waffle from you based on what you thought and not what I had stated.

Wouldn't even get to court, that's how bad your English is.

Insinuations do stand in court. Would you like citations for it ?

I regret wasting my time with you.

Lesson learned I guess.

It will always be a waste of time for a person peddling opinions with zero substantiation to go up against a person who will cite their positions from authoritative figures.

You are the only one tooting your own horn here- I suppose delusions can do that.


PS: Why are you running away from acknowledging the fact that you were wrong about natural born Brits not being stripped of their citizenship ?? I admitted my error in this thread- perhaps you are too young to do so, but its actually a sign of strength, not weakness, to admit one's errors.

 

[KingKhanWC]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21783475

Yes it can be taken away.

No one needs your permission to post in any thread.

I was questioning his motives and he has been found out to be another Indian troll. A friend of yours?

I mentioned those who were born in the UK and do not leave the country for 'terrorism' related adventures. Worry about shining India, UK has nothing to do with you.

 

[Ocelot]

The main reason india doesnt have the perception it deserves is because it stays in a bad neighbourhood. If India was an island we would be rightfully counted among the top progressive nations of the world.

Frankly we can say the same. If Pakistan was an island country and didn't have borders with India as Afghanistan, we would have been as big an economy as South Korea by now.

We wouldn't have to face the geostrategic curse; wouldn't have terrorism & militant spilling over from Afghanistan; wouldn't have a bigger bully in the shape of India; wouldn't have to spend an hefty amount on military expenditure and nukes; wouldn't have to face anti-Pak Indian global lobbies; wouldn't have average Indian obsessed with Pakistan and spewing venom in every forum they could find; wouldn't have American twisting Pakistani arms for their own interest.

I earnestly wish we were an Island country..

 

[Napa]

They also treat their minorities much worse than us while we are always respectful to non-Muslims.

I have always wondered why the % of Hindus in Pakistan has fallen from 12% to 2% since independence while the % of Muslims in India has risen from 12% to 14%. Now I have the answer.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Frankly we can say the same. If Pakistan was an island country and didn't have borders with India as Afghanistan, we would have been as big an economy as South Korea by now.

We wouldn't have to face the geostrategic curse; wouldn't have terrorism & militant spilling over from Afghanistan; wouldn't have a bigger bully in the shape of India; wouldn't have to spend an hefty amount on military expenditure and nukes; wouldn't have to face anti-Pak Indian global lobbies; wouldn't have average Indian obsessed with Pakistan and spewing venom in every forum they could find; wouldn't have American twisting Pakistani arms for their own interest.

I earnestly wish we were an Island country..

You can't escape us. I have only one social profile as an indian, rest of my personas on social media are british pakistani, tweeting, commenting and stirring the pot to spread fitnah.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I was questioning his motives and he has been found out to be another Indian troll. A friend of yours?

I mentioned those who were born in the UK and do not leave the country for 'terrorism' related adventures. Worry about shining India, UK has nothing to do with you.

Born in UK or not, their citizenship can be taken away. Reasons need not by specified by the UK govt.

You seem to be pretty worried about India.See you in all India threads.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Born in UK or not, their citizenship can be taken away. Reasons need not by specified by the UK govt.

You seem to be pretty worried about India.See you in all India threads.

I have no issues discussing India as it impacts on Pakistan. It's YOUR moto, when you usually say it's not your country so dont worry , therefore Im just giving you your own principles. So mind your own business.

Can you name a single case where a UK born citizen who has not left the country or did not obtain citizenship by fraud has had their passport revoked?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have no issues discussing India as it impacts on Pakistan. It's YOUR moto, when you usually say it's not your country so dont worry , therefore Im just giving you your own principles. So mind your own business.

Can you name a single case where a UK born citizen who has not left the country or did not obtain citizenship by fraud has had their passport revoked?

So if you can discuss India i can discuss UK or Pakistan. Cant have it both ways, can you?

So you agree that British born can lose their citizenship. Good.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So if you can discuss India i can discuss UK or Pakistan. Cant have it both ways, can you?

So you agree that British born can lose their citizenship. Good.

Fine, im glad you will now change your moto and never suggest to a poster to mind their own business when it comes to India.

Yes with the conditions I stated early on. If they obtained their citizenship via fraud or they leave to indulge in terrorism. Otherwise there nobody born Brit with only one nationality can lose their citizenship.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You can't escape us. I have only one social profile as an indian, rest of my personas on social media are british pakistani, tweeting, commenting and stirring the pot to spread fitnah.

Who can blame you for using net anonymity to pose as a British Pakistani, it truly is one of the most desirable badges a person can have. Truth be told, despite my claim of being a native Brit, I have to confess I feel diminished for having shed the British Pakistani tag, and now I wish to claim it back. I feel sorry for other native Brits like James and Robert who probably wish they could call themselves British Pakistanis as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But guys count yourselves lucky, it could be worse...imagine being a British Indian?

 

[R3verse Swing]

But guys count yourselves lucky, it could be worse...imagine being a British Indian?

Technically just British, not Indian, even as per accordance to Indian law. So yes, a whole lot worse.

 

[gani999]

To Indians living abroad; you cannot vote in India, you cannot buy land in India, you cannot hold certain jobs in India - you have less rights in India. Why are you defending India? Your Indian government doesn’t recognise you as Indian. The perception of you is suffering worldwide as a result.

It's been fun.

Have a great weekend!

Indians living abroad and OCIs can very well buy land and real estate in India. I have done it myself, as have several that I know of. They are only prohibited from buying agricultural land, something even Indians living in India who are not farmers are not allowed to do.

As for voting rights, some Indians living abroad would like to have that. But even Indians living in India cannot vote outside their own constituencies. So it is not like non-resident Indians are being discriminated against.

As for not being allowed to hold government jobs in India, it is justified as most OCIs are successfully employed abroad. We are all quite happy with leaving the jobs in India to the Indians living there who cannot migrate abroad.

So at the end of the day, the only things that non-resident Indians and OCIs care for are 1. Visa-free travel to India and unlimited rights of residence 2. The permission to invest money in India and buy property. Everything else can be dispensed with.

 

[Snak3eye5]

You might as well hold a debate with the BJP information minister. One of those you are 'debating' with is a self confessed strident supporter of the BJP government, and the other 'Bangladeshi/Kashmiri' has just admitted he too is a fan of the Hindutva party leading India today.

There's about much chance of them seeing reason as there is of a Brit thinking Ben Kingsley or Freddie Mercury are Indian.

About Zayn Malik . His Dad is Pakistani. His mom is Irish or something . So can one claim Zayn is of Pakistani origin or Irish ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Fine, im glad you will now change your moto and never suggest to a poster to mind their own business when it comes to India.

Yes with the conditions I stated early on. If they obtained their citizenship via fraud or they leave to indulge in terrorism. Otherwise there nobody born Brit with only one nationality can lose their citizenship.

My motto is still the same. But since you find it necessary to talk about India, i find it necessary to talk about UK or Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

But guys count yourselves lucky, it could be worse...imagine being a British Indian?

In the top 3 most well off ethnicities in UK. Could be worse you see, like being near the bottom like Brit Pakistanis.

 

[Mamoon]

It appears that PP’s latest troll has created quite a buzz with this thread. It is easy to ignore this because it is self-explanatory, but because I find myself with a few spare minutes, I would add my two cents and state the obvious reasons.

- For multiple reasons that need no explanation, Islam is considered as the most dangerous religion in the world. Yes it is stereotypical, but there is an element of truth in every stereotype.

Islam does not propagate extremism, but there is potential in Islamic scriptures and teachings for misinterpretation. It is not a coincidence that the majority of the rampant terrorists organizations in the world today carry the banners of Islam.

The fact that Pakistan is an Islamic country - and was created in the name of Islam, and is one of the most terror-stricken countries in the world today - is the single biggest reason why it has a poor image in comparison to India.

Without Islam, Pakistan pretty much doesn’t have an identity. Shashi Tharoor was correct in pointing out that without Hinduism and Islam, Indians will be Indians and Persians will be Persians, but Pakistanis will be second-rate Indians. It is a hurtful statement but it is true.

However, there are other reasons as well. Pakistan as a country has not been able to escape the shadow of India and carve its own identity. Naturally, the fact that it is much smaller geographically does not help either. Much of Pakistan’s culture has been inherited from India’s and the uniqueness does not stand out because it’s magnitude is insignificant.

Pakistani Punjab culture is Indian and the northern culture is largely Afghani. It is only the South that truly represents Pakistani culture, but it is not celebrated enough because of the size of Punjab. As a result, in the West, the culture of Pakistan is perceived as Indian and we have not been successful in bridging a gap between the two.

Moreover, India’s stable democracy compared to Pakistan’s chaotic politics has also influenced the impression of the two countries. India has also made far greater contributions to the business world as well as entertainment.

All in all, Pakistan is pretty much a poor man’s India. An inferior version, and that was always going to happen with the way the partition was carried forward. There was a good reason why Jinnah was not in favor of it until the end, because carving out a small portion from a massive country, and giving it a new name and a new flag meant that Pakistan was always going to live in India’s shadow.

However, we still had enough resources to make our own indentity but unfortunately, we have largely failed.

 

[Traveller55]

It appears that PP’s latest troll has created quite a buzz with this thread. It is easy to ignore this because it is self-explanatory, but because I find myself with a few spare minutes, I would add my two cents and state the obvious reasons.

- For multiple reasons that need no explanation, Islam is considered as the most dangerous religion in the world. Yes it is stereotypical, but there is an element of truth in every stereotype.

Islam does not propagate extremism, but there is potential in Islamic scriptures and teachings for misinterpretation. It is not a coincidence that the majority of the rampant terrorists organizations in the world today carry the banners of Islam.

The fact that Pakistan is an Islamic country - and was created in the name of Islam, and is one of the most terror-stricken countries in the world today - is the single biggest reason why it has a poor image in comparison to India.

Without Islam, Pakistan pretty much doesn’t have an identity. Shashi Tharoor was correct in pointing out that without Hinduism and Islam, Indians will be Indians and Persians will be Persians, but Pakistanis will be second-rate Indians. It is a hurtful statement but it is true.

However, there are other reasons as well. Pakistan as a country has not been able to escape the shadow of India and carve its own identity. Naturally, the fact that it is much smaller geographically does not help either. Much of Pakistan’s culture has been inherited from India’s and the uniqueness does not stand out because it’s magnitude is insignificant.

Pakistani Punjab culture is Indian and the northern culture is largely Afghani. It is only the South that truly represents Pakistani culture, but it is not celebrated enough because of the size of Punjab. As a result, in the West, the culture of Pakistan is perceived as Indian and we have not been successful in bridging a gap between the two.

Moreover, India’s stable democracy compared to Pakistan’s chaotic politics has also influenced the impression of the two countries. India has also made far greater contributions to the business world as well as entertainment.

All in all, Pakistan is pretty much a poor man’s India. An inferior version, and that was always going to happen with the way the partition was carried forward. There was a good reason why Jinnah was not in favor of it until the end, because carving out a small portion from a massive country, and giving it a new name and a new flag meant that Pakistan was always going to live in India’s shadow.

However, we still had enough resources to make our own indentity but unfortunately, we have largely failed.

Very well said sir.
Pakistan (and Islamic world in general) needs more thinkers like you, who are atleast willing to admit there is a problem and carry the correction process forward.
Salutations !

 

[R3verse Swing]

Which thread are people reading? Who has said Pakistan does not have problems?