Will playing more Tests help Bangladesh?

[Joseph Gomes]

Strictly speaking in terms of batting.

The current top BDesh batsmen (Shakib, Mushfiqur, Tamim) have all been playing for 10 years now. It's way too late to change mentality, as these players have already matured in their own way. They can't learn anything new, as learning new techniques will only hinder their own play. As we saw in today's innings, none of the batters can grind on to save a test match on 5th day. Then comes their limited technical ability to handle bounce, swing and spin (on 5th day track). Simply put, these batsmen are not qualified enough to win matches.

So what Bangladesh needs to fix is their first class cricket structure and groom batsmen who will be learning to handle pressure and not throw their wicket away, at any stage of the match. Those batsmen will have to replace the current failures who're averaging in the 20s and 30s. There's no room for substandard players in test team, and BDesh have a lot of them.

Some BDeshi fans think that playing more test matches will help the players. But they're unfortunately deluded, it's too late to expect the old players to change their attitude. Just look at Shakib's interview, he's being honest. Shakib knows he isn't capable of saving a test match. Same goes for everybody else.

I won't comment on the bowling since it's beyond mediocre.

 

[Varun]

Their strongest suit is the ODI game. Most of their players have a swashbuckling mentality which is fine for the shorter format, but it isn't pretty when it comes to situations like these where they have to graft to save a test match.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Athar ali khan kept talking about how BD doesn't get to play lot of Tests. As it is Test matches lose audience. So you have to be highly competitive to create an interest in Test series. Ofcourse millions of Bangladeshis watch them. But many friends of mine who are hardcore cricket fans skipped this test. Some asked "was there a test match".

 

[Tekcirc]

This pitch was gift wrapped for a draw for Bangladesh.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

They are improving, albeit very slowly. Now that kids in Bangladesh have more players to look up to more will come through the junior ranks imo.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Bangladesh are improving, earlier they were not consistent even at home.

They are already a very decent ODI unit and can give good fight.

Regular test series with tough opponents will only make them better, I think they are on a upward curve.

 

[Buffet]

Strictly speaking in terms of batting.

The current top BDesh batsmen (Shakib, Mushfiqur, Tamim) have all been playing for 10 years now. It's way too late to change mentality, as these players have already matured in their own way. They can't learn anything new, as learning new techniques will only hinder their own play. As we saw in today's innings, none of the batters can grind on to save a test match on 5th day. Then comes their limited technical ability to handle bounce, swing and spin (on 5th day track). Simply put, these batsmen are not qualified enough to win matches.

So what Bangladesh needs to fix is their first class cricket structure and groom batsmen who will be learning to handle pressure and not throw their wicket away, at any stage of the match. Those batsmen will have to replace the current failures who're averaging in the 20s and 30s. There's no room for substandard players in test team, and BDesh have a lot of them.

Some BDeshi fans think that playing more test matches will help the players. But they're unfortunately deluded, it's too late to expect the old players to change their attitude. Just look at Shakib's interview, he's being honest. Shakib knows he isn't capable of saving a test match. Same goes for everybody else.

I won't comment on the bowling since it's beyond mediocre.

What was his comment?

 

[Tekcirc]

What was his comment?

He threw his wicket in the first innings. He said that he won't be Shakib if he bats any other way. He just slogs and doesn't want to change.

 

[Buffet]

He threw his wicket in the first innings. He said that he won't be Shakib if he bats any other way. He just slogs and doesn't want to change.

So he doesn't care about if his team needs him to bat time, interesting. Based on what I have seen, I am not too sure if he even has skills to bat defensively. That may be reason for him to bat just one way.

 

[Buffet]

I don't agree with OP here. You can improve if you play. Guys like Shakib may not have temperament and useless in test when it comes to helping his team to save test, but new players can surely learn a lot by playing against good teams.

I just checked the scorecard and I see some one putting 3(84). That's what BD needed and it would have been simple draw. Pitch was doing very little based on I have read and if one tail can survive 84 balls , I don't see why main batsmen couldn't have played more balls. If 2-3 batsmen had attitude like the player with 3(84), draw would have been a likely outcome here.

You do improve by playing. Next generation will improve more than current generation. They will have higher benchmark and expectations.

 

[Tekcirc]

So he doesn't care about if his team needs him to bat time, interesting. Based on what I have seen, I am not too sure if he even has skills to bat defensively. That may be reason for him to bat just one way.

That is evidence of malaise in Bangladesh test side.

 

[tonmoy]

Strictly speaking in terms of batting.

The current top BDesh batsmen (Shakib, Mushfiqur, Tamim) have all been playing for 10 years now. It's way too late to change mentality, as these players have already matured in their own way. They can't learn anything new, as learning new techniques will only hinder their own play. As we saw in today's innings, none of the batters can grind on to save a test match on 5th day. Then comes their limited technical ability to handle bounce, swing and spin (on 5th day track). Simply put, these batsmen are not qualified enough to win matches.

So what Bangladesh needs to fix is their first class cricket structure and groom batsmen who will be learning to handle pressure and not throw their wicket away, at any stage of the match. Those batsmen will have to replace the current failures who're averaging in the 20s and 30s. There's no room for substandard players in test team, and BDesh have a lot of them.

Some BDeshi fans think that playing more test matches will help the players. But they're unfortunately deluded, it's too late to expect the old players to change their attitude. Just look at Shakib's interview, he's being honest. Shakib knows he isn't capable of saving a test match. Same goes for everybody else.

I won't comment on the bowling since it's beyond mediocre.

Completely disagree.
Check the average age for all test teams, Bangladesh is probably one of the youngest. The three players you stated (shakib, mush and Tamim) are all 29 years and younger and they are probably the oldest members of the side.
Now check the age of Shabbir, miraz, mustafiz, taskin , liton Das, nazmul and you will find that they are all really young and needs all the experience they can get.

Yes the improvement has been slow. But you must remember that 12 to 15 years back we used to rely on players who were barely professional cricketers. They were all semi-pro players who had other businesses or worked elsewhere. Even 4 to 5 years after the test status, our entire country had 4 bowling machines. That right 4 bowling machines. A british elementary school probably had more.

Shakib Mush and Tamim were the first batches of pro-cricketers and the result is there to see.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

They have started performing at home which most of the teams do. Away from home only 1-2 teams are good. So yeah they deserve to play more matches just like other asian teams. Even Indian captain Kohli said the same.

 

[Sachin136]

They have started performing at home which most of the teams do. Away from home only 1-2 teams are good. So yeah they deserve to play more matches just like other asian teams. Even Indian captain Kohli said the same.

They have just won one series at home. If India or Pakistan (or even SL) tour them, they would lose. Most teams aren't great overseas, but they still do well away from home.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

They have just won one series at home. If India or Pakistan (or even SL) tour them, they would lose. Most teams aren't great overseas, but they still do well away from home.

According to you are they improving or not?

 

[Executioner]

Joseph has some valid points but his final conclusion that playing more tests won't help Bangladesh is flawed.

What if I tell you that we played around 5 proper tests in the last 2.5 years(we played 8 but the rest were rained out). So the question is, how can you expect players to be fed on a constant diet of LOIs and only a handful of tests and expect them to perform in tests.

Bear in mind, only Mominul is a test specialist. The rest don't even get to play FC cricket because they are busy playing for national side in ODIs and T20Is. Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Riad are all capable cricketers. Shakib was never this aggressive in Tests. Mushfiq too used to be more defensive.

Watch Kohli's statement. He said its difficult to improve if you play so few. We didn't just improve in ODIs just because it suits our style of play. We improved because we played a huge number of ODIs. We played a good number of ODIs and eventually started improving. You only get better if you play regularly. We do not play tests regularly which is why you will see the following:

-No specialist slip fielder
-A lackluster pace attack for tests
-Picking LOI players like Sabbir and Soumya in the test squad
-Players playing rash shots

Now if you see our LOI sides, we have an excellent pace attack with Taskin, Rubel, Mashrafe and Mustafiz. Best in Asia in my opinion, better than that of England, WI. But our test bowling is beyond atrocious.

Fixing our FC tournaments won't help much. We already have 2 FC tournaments in place.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Joseph has some valid points but his final conclusion that playing more tests won't help Bangladesh is flawed.

What if I tell you that we played around 5 proper tests in the last 2.5 years(we played 8 but the rest were rained out). So the question is, how can you expect players to be fed on a constant diet of LOIs and only a handful of tests and expect them to perform in tests.

Bear in mind, only Mominul is a test specialist. The rest don't even get to play FC cricket because they are busy playing for national side in ODIs and T20Is. Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Riad are all capable cricketers. Shakib was never this aggressive in Tests. Mushfiq too used to be more defensive.

Watch Kohli's statement. He said its difficult to improve if you play so few. We didn't just improve in ODIs just because it suits our style of play. We improved because we played a huge number of ODIs. We played a good number of ODIs and eventually started improving. You only get better if you play regularly. We do not play tests regularly which is why you will see the following:

-No specialist slip fielder
-A lackluster pace attack for tests
-Picking LOI players like Sabbir and Soumya in the test squad
-Players playing rash shots

Now if you see our LOI sides, we have an excellent pace attack with Taskin, Rubel, Mashrafe and Mustafiz. Best in Asia in my opinion, better than that of England, WI. But our test bowling is beyond atrocious.

Fixing our FC tournaments won't help much. We already have 2 FC tournaments in place.

Don't worry. This world is full of hypocrites. When its our own players we want them to tour abroad, play as many matches as possible to get comfortable with those conditions. We even organise an international level league at home so that our players can play alongside intl players in as many matches as possible just to get experience. All this for one thing and that is to get better and better.

And here we are asking Bangladesh to improve their domestic cricket as if we are winning series after series away from home.

 

[Hasan123]

There older players may not improve from playing more tests but players like Taskin, Mustafizur, Sakar,etc will improve from playing more tests.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Of course Bangladesh are improving. No question about that.

They need more tests for sure.

Just cos they collapsed a few times means nothing. The newer generation players will come and take Bangladesh cricket forward.

I don't get the reasoning in this thread.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Progress in multiple areas can happen simultaneously. If Bangladesh batsmen need to improve their defensive technique, that can be ironed out in domestic level while they play international games.

 

[SunRay]

OP couldn't be any more wrong. The only way Bangla can improve in test cricket is by playing more tests against top test playing nations.


Domestics r only good for finding out raw talents. But quality of the bowlers, pressure situations and finally the competition that players face in the domestics aren't as same as international cricket.


Finally, a student will never do well in a competitive exam no matter how brilliant he is if he doesn't have the experience of facing tough exams. It's hilarious to see that some ppl here believes that a team can do well in tests without playing tests. Lol

 

[SunRay]

He threw his wicket in the first innings. He said that he won't be Shakib if he bats any other way. He just slogs and doesn't want to change.

I can't remember where did I actually read this. Perhaps it was in this forum or perhaps it was somewhere else.

The quote was something along this line '' if u r Sehwag play like sehwag and don't try to be dravid because if u try to emulate dravid u'll neither be shewag nor be dravid.

 

[SunRay]

There older players may not improve from playing more tests but players like Taskin, Mustafizur, Sakar,etc will improve from playing more tests.

The older players will also improve. They just don't have the experience of being in situations where they have to bat out a session.

If u observe closely u'll see that Bangla often loses wickets just before the break(lunch/tea) or just after the break because playing for the break is also an art which can only be learned by playing actual tests.

 

[Hasan123]

The older players will also improve. They just don't have the experience of being in situations where they have to bat out a session.

If u observe closely u'll see that Bangla often loses wickets just before the break(lunch/tea) or just after the break because playing for the break is also an art which can only be learned by playing actual tests.

Most of the are nearly 30 or just over 30 , there not going to improve by much. By the time Bangldesh have significant away tours Sakhib,Mufiqar,Tahim, etc, will be mid thirties.

 

[SunRay]

Most of the are nearly 30 or just over 30 , there not going to improve by much. By the time Bangldesh have significant away tours Sakhib,Mufiqar,Tahim, etc, will be mid thirties.

Agreed.

28-32/34, these 4/5 years r prime time for a batsman. Very few in world cricket in the past have managed to maintain their quality after that.

My Point wasn't about that. Of course none of their older ones will have a great Test record by the time they will end their career. What I meant that If Bangla plays more tests u'll see less and less brain farts from their players, like the one we saw from their captain today.

 

[Hasan123]

Agreed.

28-32/34, these 4/5 years r prime time for a batsman. Very few in world cricket in the past have managed to maintain their quality after that.

My Point wasn't about that. Of course none of their older ones will have a great Test record by the time they will end their career. What I meant that If Bangla plays more tests u'll see less and less brain farts from their players, like the one we saw from their captain today.

They have been playing for long enough,they aren't going to develop much more. As a team they have shown in Odis they have a tendency to choke,difficult to change that. Just ask South Africa. They have played many LO tournaments yet are still choking.

 

[Pantani]

Rubbish. Bangladesh performed a damn sight better than England did and Australia will. They have not disgraced themselves at all by failing to secure a draw against the most powerful at-home team in the world.

 

[SunRay]

They have been playing for long enough,they aren't going to develop much more. As a team they have shown in Odis they have a tendency to choke,difficult to change that. Just ask South Africa. They have played many LO tournaments yet are still choking.

Playing for long enough and playing consistently enough r two different things my friend. It's quite obvious from Bangla's recent performance in test cricket that Odis have a huge influence on their approach in test cricket.


Even when they scored that mammoth 590+ against kiwis they did it way too quickly and by taking way too many risks. But u can't blame them for that. These things r bound to happen when a team Plays 1/2 odd test here and there after playing continuous Odis or t20s.

 

[Executioner]

Don't worry. This world is full of hypocrites. When its our own players we want them to tour abroad, play as many matches as possible to get comfortable with those conditions. We even organise an international level league at home so that our players can play alongside intl players in as many matches as possible just to get experience. All this for one thing and that is to get better and better.

And here we are asking Bangladesh to improve their domestic cricket as if we are winning series after series away from home.

Unfortunately most cricket fans are not willing to accept it. Infact, the worst part is that the adminstrators themselves lack patience.

Cricket is a difficult sport to master, test cricket more so. Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Riad may not improve too much and they have reached their ceiling already. Mushy has been exceptional lately, and Shakib is a truly world cass allrounder can't complain. Yes Tamim and Riad have been dissappointing.

But as we grow, we will start producing more "pure" cricketers. These guys will be more competitive than their seniors because of the greater competitiveness for selection, better facilities in domestic level and so on.

Like you said, India too have struggled to win abroad against top nations. All that despite 70 years of cricket experience and players with plentiful experience of playing at the top level and with regular matches. Mushfiqur played 52 test matches for Bangladesh and he debuted 12 years back. Yes 12 years - 52 matches which is an average of 5 tests a year.

 

[R0H1T]

I don't agree with OP here. You can improve if you play. Guys like Shakib may not have temperament and useless in test when it comes to helping his team to save test, but new players can surely learn a lot by playing against good teams.

I just checked the scorecard and I see some one putting 3(84). That's what BD needed and it would have been simple draw. Pitch was doing very little based on I have read and if one tail can survive 84 balls , I don't see why main batsmen couldn't have played more balls. If 2-3 batsmen had attitude like the player with 3(84), draw would have been a likely outcome here.

You do improve by playing. Next generation will improve more than current generation. They will have higher benchmark and expectations.

I'd say the bigger issue is that test cricket is going towards a lower ebb, it is at at lowest (arguably) in decades.

The problem unique to cricket & test cricket in general is that teams can regress & go back a long way, like Aus who've gone backwards with their overly aggressive style of play (hence the call for 4 day matches?) & can't seem to bat time for the last half decade at least, unless it's a road of course.

Then you have WI who are in terminal decline, SL may soon join them & Pak also need wholesale changes. Test cricket is unique in the sense that many of the ODI & T20 traits will not help you much, in fact they might do just the opposite in terms of furthering your test game. In that Bangladesh will not be helped by playing more tests, as SA/NZ/Eng/Aus will find out in India.

They need test match specialist players, till that time they'll always be middle of the pack (at best) otherwise they might never look to improve consistently. You can't take one step forward & two back, one good day or two good sessions simply don't cut it in tests.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Rubbish. Bangladesh performed a damn sight better than England did and Australia will. They have not disgraced themselves at all by failing to secure a draw against the most powerful at-home team in the world.

Totally false statement.

Star do their session by session score and the score was 12 to 2 for this test. India scored more with their 6 first innings wickets than BD did with 20.

England were losing test matches by 5-9 session counts for the most part.

The only reason it appears that BD competed was the most flattest pitch of the entire home season.

 

[R0H1T]

Totally false statement.

Star do their session by session score and the score was 12 to 2 for this test. India scored more with their 6 first innings wickets than BD did with 20.

England were losing test matches by 5-9 session counts for the most part.

The only reason it appears that BD competed was the most flattest pitch of the entire home season.

Arguably, I'd say we could've scored 1K at Chennai if it were't for forcing a result

 

[Tekcirc]

The older players will also improve. They just don't have the experience of being in situations where they have to bat out a session.

If u observe closely u'll see that Bangla often loses wickets just before the break(lunch/tea) or just after the break because playing for the break is also an art which can only be learned by playing actual tests.

No other team has had more experience of needing to bat out session after session, day after day than the Bangladesh team. This is simple honest humble fact.

 

[GenericBrand]

OP has no clue what he's saying

"BD needs to fix their FC first...."

If fixing and improving FC cricket was so simple then Pakistan, WI and SL wouldn't be in the mess they're in right now. The quality of domestics is something that improves over time gradually as more investments are made into proper infrastructure and getting the right coaches and mentors for local players.

Also the fruits of such improvements might even take years to finally realize and materialize and it is not something instantaneous as the OP thinks, like what is BD suppose to do for the next 10 years? Go into self-exile? Even if BD resorts to playing only FC cricket, the gulf in quality between domestics and international cricket is huge which can only be bridged through experience playing more international games, not being some sort of domestic bully. There is a ceiling in the experience, skills and knowledge players can attain by only playing domestics.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

LOL at OP and his infantile logic.

Bangladesh caught up in ODIs simply due to eventually playing a large volume of matches. Same with Tests. They just won a Test against the then #2 ranked side in the world (England).

South Africa, couldn't win any Tests in India recently...and they too tried to survive by dead batting for 140 overs. I suppose the Saffers also don't have the technique to play Tests.

Bangladesh has the ability to beat any of England, Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand in Bangladesh. Even India under Kohli's captaincy has just one win overseas conditions (England, AUS, NZ, SA).

Pakistan were not just beaten, they were demolished in Australia.

Bangladesh are not much better or worse than any of the other top 8 countries from India on down to the West Indies.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

LOL at OP and his infantile logic.

Bangladesh caught up in ODIs simply due to eventually playing a large volume of matches. Same with Tests. They just won a Test against the then #2 ranked side in the world (England).

South Africa, couldn't win any Tests in India recently...and they too tried to survive by dead batting for 140 overs. I suppose the Saffers also don't have the technique to play Tests.

Bangladesh has the ability to beat any of England, Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand in Bangladesh. Even India under Kohli's captaincy has just one win overseas conditions (England, AUS, NZ, SA).

Pakistan were not just beaten, they were demolished in Australia.

Bangladesh are not much better or worse than any of the other top 8 countries from India on down to the West Indies.

Big words coming from a lot that we're practically the punching bag of the cricketing world pre-2015 WC.

Chest thump when you actually win something for a change, even at this moment, and apart from cricket forum geeks like us, the world still considers you guys a proper minnow !!

 

[R0H1T]

LOL at OP and his infantile logic.

Bangladesh caught up in ODIs simply due to eventually playing a large volume of matches. Same with Tests. They just won a Test against the then #2 ranked side in the world (England).

South Africa, couldn't win any Tests in India recently...and they too tried to survive by dead batting for 140 overs. I suppose the Saffers also don't have the technique to play Tests.

Bangladesh has the ability to beat any of England, Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand in Bangladesh. Even India under Kohli's captaincy has just one win overseas conditions (England, AUS, NZ, SA).

Pakistan were not just beaten, they were demolished in Australia.

Bangladesh are not much better or worse than any of the other top 8 countries from India on down to the West Indies.

So you think simply by playing a large volume(?) of tests you'll get better at it? I guess that explains Aus horror show on road in Asia, India in particular?

You need test match specialists, not someone like "If I don't play my natural game" Shakib or the overly excitables Rahim & Riad lest we forget the last WT20.

 

[JaDed]

Not really they will actually improve,have started following Bangladesh cricket more seriously in the past year and I have to say they are pretty impressive bunch,the only time there was a terrible mishab was the Kiwi test but tbf England did that in the last test in India as well.

Bangladesh can actually be very good now as for the reasons as to why more tests against top teams would help them:

1.Their bowlers will learn to bowl long spells with better focus,right now they are not focused on all spells and are not able to vary their lengths.
2.The same situation with batsmen ,Mushi has been impressive but did a blunder in the second innings because right now these guys are not backing themselves also the competition among themselves is low.
3.The mindset ,think Kohli mentioned this as well its the mindset to play 5 days which is still not present in many Bangladeshi players will only come if they play against top teams and be 100%.

Now things that cannot be improved by playing additional tests:
-Fielding,mind boggling ,they were poor.
-Batsmen giving away wickets ,this they need to work on,one can understand if they have reach a triple figure and there is lack of concentration but no way should this be an excuse if they have just score 20-40 settled and giving their wickets away.


I think Bangladesh is an interesting prospect,do not just go by their fans but by their team ,atleast I'm finding them pretty much improving and worth watching.

 

[Executioner]

So you think simply by playing a large volume(?) of tests you'll get better at it? I guess that explains Aus horror show on road in Asia, India in particular?

You need test match specialists, not someone like "If I don't play my natural game" Shakib or the overly excitables Rahim & Riad lest we forget the last WT20.

Shakib averages 50+ in tests in the last 5 years. Rahim too around 55ish. I agree Riad is mediocre and should not be in the test side.

You are right about having test specialists like Mominul and Taijul. But the reason why we are not having test specialists is because we don't even play tests. What is the point of having them when you play 3-4 tests a year? You can see how Mominul struggled in tests lately, in 2012-2015 he was averaging above 65. A bit inflated those stats but you get my point.

 

[R0H1T]

Shakib averages 50+ in tests in the last 5 years. Rahim too around 55ish. I agree Riad is mediocre and should not be in the test side.

You are right about having test specialists like Mominul and Taijul. But the reason why we are not having test specialists is because we don't even play tests. What is the point of having them when you play 3-4 tests a year? You can see how Mominul struggled in tests lately, in 2012-2015 he was averaging above 65. A bit inflated those stats but you get my point.

The point about test specialists is wrt the mindset that (test) specialists have. I don't see Shakib having the attitude to hang on for long periods of time, over two successive innings. We have Pujara & Vijay or Even Rahane & Karun, earlier as well we had VVS & Dravid.

I don't see the test mentality being instilled by playing more tests, this is why I gave the example of Aus who are really bad in Asia these days, you can't put that down to lack of experience "in these conditions" because even in Aus on spicy tracks they've been steamrolled. You'll need better FC structure & much better FC cricketers to be consistently good in tests, as with Aus these days they simply don't have too many good FC players anymore.

This is why I've said that lack of tests doesn't matter as much as test mentality. It will take time but not necessarily more tests, though winning (more) tests against top sides will teach you a lot.

 

[SunRay]

The point about test specialists is wrt the mindset that (test) specialists have. I don't see Shakib having the attitude to hang on for long periods of time, over two successive innings. We have Pujara & Vijay or Even Rahane & Karun, earlier as well we had VVS & Dravid.

Shakib doesn't have the mindset to hang on because he doesn't play enough tests. Isn't that quite simple to understand?

He doesn't have the mentality to stay for a longer period because he generally plays one off test after every 10/15 months and the reason behind his attacking approach in test cricket shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to guess.


When a player spends majority of the time in a calender year by playing Odis and t20s it'll obviously have an impact on his test batting and he'll inevitably try to play tests like LOIs, its natural. Do u really think it's that easy for a player to switch from one form of cricket to another especially when the said player hardly gets any chance to play that form of cricket.

I don't see the test mentality being instilled by playing more tests, this is why I gave the example of Aus who are really bad in Asia these days, you can't put that down to lack of experience "in these conditions" because even in Aus on spicy tracks they've been steamrolled. You'll need better FC structure & much better FC cricketers to be consistently good in tests, as with Aus these days they simply don't have too many good FC players anymore

Really? How many tests did wasim Jafar play for India? He's easily one of the best domestic players from India, wasn't he?


Kohli at the beginning of his test career was also a mediocre batsman who always tried to play too aggressively and used to get out while chasing widish half volleys. Did he rectify these mistakes by playing ranji trophy??

This is why I've said that lack of tests doesn't matter as much as test mentality. It will take time but not necessarily more tests, though winning (more) tests against top sides will teach you a lot.

Lack of tests is obviously the main reason. U can't develop the mindset of playing test if I don't play test. It's as simple as that.

Let kohli play only 2 Tests per year and he'll become worse than Sabbir from Bangla.

 

[Tekcirc]

Shakib averages 50+ in tests in the last 5 years. Rahim too around 55ish. I agree Riad is mediocre and should not be in the test side.

You are right about having test specialists like Mominul and Taijul. But the reason why we are not having test specialists is because we don't even play tests. What is the point of having them when you play 3-4 tests a year? You can see how Mominul struggled in tests lately, in 2012-2015 he was averaging above 65. A bit inflated those stats but you get my point.

Why do bangladeshi fans have such an awkward relationship with maths?

49 becomes 55, 40 becomes 55ish.. What planet do you guys live on??


You guys end believing your own hyperbole and lies to the core ! I really pity you.

 

[Tekcirc]

Lack of tests is obviously the main reason. U can't develop the mindset of playing test if I don't play test. It's as simple as that.

Let kohli play only 2 Tests per year and he'll become worse than Sabbir from Bangla.

Ahh the excuse of little number of tests, but you can't shut your trap talking about India's progress in terms of number of years. India played like 25 tests in its first 20 years, How many have you got already??

You have to earn the right to play with the big guys, its not an automatic birth right. Guys, its getting pitiful hearing your excuses and pleading for some sort of recognition. You can't have what your team hasn't earned.
It took India nearly 40 years to be able to play the number of games Bangladesh has managed already and at that time Test was the only format available. Talk about match practice other teams got.

Bangladesh has been provided the best platform to grow and still they cry like spoiled brats.

 

[R0H1T]

Shakib doesn't have the mindset to hang on because he doesn't play enough tests. Isn't that quite simple to understand?

He doesn't have the mentality to stay for a longer period because he generally plays one off test after every 10/15 months and the reason behind his attacking approach in test cricket shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to guess.

Yeah that's just BS, he threw his wicket away in 3 (or 4) tests over ~3 months in virtually the exact same manner. That tells me he isn't willing to learn, you can't use the excuse of not playing enough tests when this happens as regularly as is very evident, at least in Shakib's case.

When a player spends majority of the time in a calender year by playing Odis and t20s it'll obviously have an impact on his test batting and he'll inevitably try to play tests like LOIs, its natural. Do u really think it's that easy for a player to switch from one form of cricket to another especially when the said player hardly gets any chance to play that form of cricket.

An yet Indians play more LO games than any other international outfit, due to IPL, care to explain why the transition is better in our case these days? Playing more tests only gets you so far, as far as experience is concerned, stepping up to the next level & making sure you play your test game is an exercise of mental fortitude.

Really? How many tests did wasim Jafar play for India? He's easily one of the best domestic players from India, wasn't he?

Check the records I'm sure you can dig them up, the obvious reason why he didn't play many tests was because he wasn't that good (as an opener) & mentally weak. I've seen him on the Aus tour of 2007/08 & SA tour in 2007 & whilst he did get some runs on easier tracks he'd simply fold under pressure or when the pitches had more in them. So, your point was?

Kohli at the beginning of his test career was also a mediocre batsman who always tried to play too aggressively and used to get out while chasing widish half volleys. Did he rectify these mistakes by playing ranji trophy??




Lack of tests is obviously the main reason. U can't develop the mindset of playing test if I don't play test. It's as simple as that.

Let kohli play only 2 Tests per year and he'll become worse than Sabbir from Bangla.

Not sure what your point is, he still fishes at the outside off stump line, 99 percent of intl players do the same. Him doing so in LO games is understandable, but atm in tests he's cutting down that risk to a bare minimum, kinda like SRT cutting down on his cover drive at SCG in 2004. He won't be the first nor the last top order bat to get out in the slips, heck before the noughties there'd be far more people caught in the slips, & that was the time when LO weren't about all out attack. Would you say on that basis that people, during 70's or 80's perhaps even 90's getting caught in slips were poor batters?

 

[SL_Fan]

That's just utter nonsense. Of course playing more Tests will help. It's definitely not a hindrance that's for certain.

 

[Statsman]

Playing more tests in their backyard against England/ SA/ Aus/ NZ will help. Playing in Ireland, Scotland etc. will help too.

They are not yet ready for touring major test playing nations.

 

[Tekcirc]

Playing more tests in their backyard against England/ SA/ Aus/ NZ will help. Playing in Ireland, Scotland etc. will help too.

They are not yet ready for touring major test playing nations.

Bangladesh needs to earn the right to get more tests. Right now they are just a banana peel encounter for every team: No one cares if you win, but god forbid you lose!!

Other teams have simply nothing to gain from being extra generous to Bangladesh and the way the fans are immune to real facts and figures and tend to mock every other team in the world, people very much inclined to distance themselves from all pain and no glory games with Bangladesh.

 

[Statsman]

Bangladesh needs to earn the right to get more tests. Right now they are just a banana peel encounter for every team: No one cares if you win, but god forbid you lose!!

Other teams have simply nothing to gain from being extra generous to Bangladesh and the way the fans are immune to real facts and figures and tend to mock every other team in the world, people very much inclined to distance themselves from all pain and no glory games with Bangladesh.

That's why they should play Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan so that such things get sorted out.

Ps. They were competent against England at home. Of course that says a lot about England more than that about Bangladesh but wont call it a banana peel situation.

 

[Tekcirc]

That's why they should play Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan so that such things get sorted out.

Ps. They were competent against England at home. Of course that says a lot about England more than that about Bangladesh but wont call it a banana peel situation.

Nobody would have thought about mentioning Bangladesh series, If England had whitewashed them. It was expected. but since they dropped a game everyone knows.

No one would care about India's win in this test. Had Bangladesh even managed a draw, we would have been reminded of that for decades.

 

[Statsman]

Nobody would have thought about mentioning Bangladesh series, If England had whitewashed them. It was expected. but since they dropped a game everyone knows.

No one would care about India's win in this test. Had Bangladesh even managed a draw, we would have been reminded of that for decades.

Honestly that's the way it is. We talk about our drawn series in Australia even after years. Brit fans love to talk about te 2012 series. Pakistan hasn't done much of note against India in last few years yet you still hear about aane do series and Asia cup fiinal.

 

[Tekcirc]

Honestly that's the way it is. We talk about our drawn series in Australia even after years. Brit fans love to talk about te 2012 series. Pakistan hasn't done much of note against India in last few years yet you still hear about aane do series and Asia cup fiinal.

But with Bangladesh every one else will remember too. Bangladesh fans have developed a nice coping mechanism, they blissfully forget all their failures and just see their wins. As if their minnow level performances happen in a vacuum.

They remember the the 595 in NZ but innocently ignore the utterly mind boggling collapse in the same test.

You can get an idea from how inflated the stats of Bangladesh players are in the heads of their supporters from various posts in this very thread.

 

[Statsman]

But with Bangladesh every one else will remember too. Bangladesh fans have developed a nice coping mechanism, they blissfully forget all their failures and just see their wins. As if their minnow level performances happen in a vacuum.

They remember the the 595 in NZ but innocently ignore the utterly mind boggling collapse in the same test.

You can get an idea from how inflated the stats of Bangladesh players are in the heads of their supporters from various posts in this very thread.

In the same token if they lose against Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan and dare I say HK (I've lived there...cricket is non existent) again it will be remembered for long by the rest. As I said it will keep everything in balance.

Of course BD must organise more games against these teams else they shouldnt complain that the big boys don't play against them.

 

[Tekcirc]

In the same token if they lose against Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan and dare I say HK (I've lived there...cricket is non existent) again it will be remembered for long by the rest. As I said it will keep everything in balance.

Of course BD must organise more games against these teams else they shouldnt complain that the big boys don't play against them.

If you check up, Bangladesh has indeed lost to associates like Afghanistan, Hong Kong in recent past, which Bangladesh seems to imagine are their glory days. But such losses are simply forgotten in an instant and thrown into the bin with some dumb excuses.

 

[SunRay]

Yeah that's just BS, he threw his wicket away in 3 (or 4) tests over ~3 months in virtually the exact same manner. That tells me he isn't willing to learn, you can't use the excuse of not playing enough tests when this happens as regularly as is very evident, at least in Shakib's case.

So what. It's only 4 tests, isn't it? Virat batted like a tail ender in England and got out miserably in 5 tests within a matter of month. Does that mean he also wasn't willing to learn and should've stopped playing tests since he had an astonishing average of 13 there?

Of course shakib made his mistakes against England which did cost his team a match but he used that experience and scored a double hundred in newzealand a feat which greats like Sachin, dravid, laxman or Dhoni haven't managed to achieve in their entire career.

An yet Indians play more LO games than any other international outfit, due to IPL, care to explain why the transition is better in our case these days? Playing more tests only gets you so far, as far as experience is concerned, stepping up to the next level & making sure you play your test game is an exercise of mental fortitude.

Isn't it pretty obvious why the transition is easier for India? The Point wasn't about how many LOIs India play each year. Of course they play a lot, but in between they play a hefty number of tests too. That's why their batsmen find it way easier to transform their mindset from LOIs to tests compared to Bangla batsmen.

Had India played 1/2 Tests after every 15/20 months their batters too would've found it extremely difficult to get themselves accustomed to test.

Check the records I'm sure you can dig them up, the obvious reason why he didn't play many tests was because he wasn't that good (as an opener) & mentally weak. I've seen him on the Aus tour of 2007/08 & SA tour in 2007 & whilst he did get some runs on easier tracks he'd simply fold under pressure or when the pitches had more in them. So, your point was?

Wasn't my point quite straight forward? OK, let me clarify it to u. Jafar had a good domestic record because he found it easy against domestic trundlers but struggled heavily when he was asked to handle international quality fast bowlers on difficult tracks.


Same goes for Bangla too. There r Tom, dick and Harry who score bucket load of runs in Bangla's domestic league too, but they score that many not because they r exceptional but mostly due to the fact they face low quality bowlers there.


The reason i mentioned it because domestics r good for hunting talents only. Players learn to play the real cricket when they play international cricket, not domestic which is why i believe the only way Bangla batters can improve in tests is by playing against other test playing nations, not by playing in domestic leagues.

Not sure what your point is, he still fishes at the outside off stump line, 99 percent of intl players do the same. Him doing so in LO games is understandable, but atm in tests he's cutting down that risk to a bare minimum, kinda like SRT cutting down on his cover drive at SCG in 2004. He won't be the first nor the last top order bat to get out in the slips, heck before the noughties there'd be far more people caught in the slips, & that was the time when LO weren't about all out attack. Would you say on that basis that people, during 70's or 80's perhaps even 90's getting caught in slips were poor batters?

Again the point I was trying to make was damn obvious. Kohli had the tendency to play flashy shots outside off stump just like most of the Bangla batters.

But his advantage is that he plays way too many tests and that's why he gets the chance to rectify his mistakes much more frequently than Bangla batters.


In case of bangla batters they play one test here and then they have to wait for another 12/15 months to play the next one. And yes, inevitably they make the same mistake again.

If the duration between the test series wasn't that long they would've been able to rectify their mistakes much more easily and certainly would've been able to use the experience of the past test series way more effectively.

 

[Statsman]

If you check up, Bangladesh has indeed lost to associates like Afghanistan, Hong Kong in recent past, which Bangladesh seems to imagine are their glory days. But such losses are simply forgotten in an instant and thrown into the bin with some dumb excuses.

Of course I know they've lost to them. That's why I used the word "again".

You prove my point though. Such loses are never forgotten and are brought up by opposite fans when the victories are highlighted. Again, as I said things even out.

 

[Tekcirc]

Of course I know they've lost to them. That's why I used the word "again".

You prove my point though. Such loses are never forgotten and are brought up by opposite fans when the victories are highlighted. Again, as I said things even out.

I had to search thru, I had no idea about HK loss, or two losses to Afghanistan. Just knew about the win against England and actually saw the horrid collapse against England in the other game. (I as actually cheering for Bangladesh in that game)

With all my posts about Bangladesh stats, do you think I would have missed posting about it, If had that information with me. rby

 

[R0H1T]

Again the point I was trying to make was damn obvious. Kohli had the tendency to play flashy shots outside off stump just like most of the Bangla batters.

But his advantage is that he plays way too many tests and that's why he gets the chance to rectify his mistakes much more frequently than Bangla batters.


In case of bangla batters they play one test here and then they have to wait for another 12/15 months to play the next one. And yes, inevitably they make the same mistake again.

If the duration between the test series wasn't that long they would've been able to rectify their mistakes much more easily and certainly would've been able to use the experience of the past test series way more effectively.

It's debatable, see SL or even Pak as recent examples. SL got routed in SA, after playing a "warmup" series in Zim, I'm willing to bet that they'd be whitewashed consistently if they toured NZ, Aus or even Eng, after the disaster tour of SA not unlike Pak down under. You could say the same about India on our last away tours, we were good at first (one or two games) & then couldn't sustain the intensity or consistency over a (longer) period of time.

Then there's also the injuries that come with playing more tests, you think the likes of Taskin, Shakib, Mehedi would keep themselves fit 12 months in a row, assuming they don't prioritize LO games over tests or vice versa?

Some of the posters in this thread make it sound as if, Bangladesh play more test = problem solved? Playing ten tests a year will only get you to a level of WI or NZ, at best, what makes a test team, at the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam ~ mental fortitude or test mentality & even then you aren't guaranteed results as England in India or India in England previously showed. In the meantime what Bangladesh test players can work on is cutting down the risk of dismissals, shelve the stupid shots & don't try to emulate Sehwag/Warner/Tamim even on roads.

 

[Stallion__]

Ludicrous suggestion, specially considering that they have just won their first match against a full strength Test playing nation other than Zimbabwe few weeks ago.

Their skill level is improving and the mindset among the players has started to change. It will take time but they are slowly moving their way up. Giving them more matches is only going to help them in a longer run.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I think India/Pakistan should also not play more than 3 tests in an away series. There is no point in playing additional 2 matches when we already know we are going to lose the series. Also we should avoid playing practice matches too to save the time. We should just visit aus/sa/eng and start playing against them.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If you check up, Bangladesh has indeed lost to associates like Afghanistan, Hong Kong in recent past, which Bangladesh seems to imagine are their glory days. But such losses are simply forgotten in an instant and thrown into the bin with some dumb excuses.

Do you know how hard it was for india to beat zim in zim in tests few years ago? Have you thrown that into bin also?

Just because we are at the top currently we should not forget from where we started our journey. Bangladesh need ICC's support in scheduling more series. We don't have too many cricket playing nations so we should try to save those who are passionate about their cricket.

 

[Tekcirc]

Do you know how hard it was for india to beat zim in zim in tests few years ago? Have you thrown that into bin also?

Just because we are at the top currently we should not forget from where we started our journey. Bangladesh need ICC's support in scheduling more series. We don't have too many cricket playing nations so we should try to save those who are passionate about their cricket.

I do not forget all that. But when faced by bone headed, imaginary stats and baseless jibes from Bangla fans, some dose of reality is needed.

Bangladesh has got several several times in terms of support and funding than any new entrant at the big table. But still they crib and whine and mock others.

 

[SunRay]

It's debatable, see SL or even Pak as recent examples. SL got routed in SA, after playing a "warmup" series in Zim, I'm willing to bet that they'd be whitewashed consistently if they toured NZ, Aus or even Eng, after the disaster tour of SA not unlike Pak down under. You could say the same about India on our last away tours, we were good at first (one or two games) & then couldn't sustain the intensity or consistency over a (longer) period of time.

Well, Australia also got scolded against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka. It's due to conditions, nothing else.

But, if Sri Lankan team was unlucky like the current Bangla team and played as few tests as them then I m pretty sure Sri Lanka wouldn't be able to thrash the aussies like the way they did in the last series.


U r right about India though. Even after having a proper domestic structure for well over 80 years, after continuously spending so much money behind first class cricketers, after having so much influence over the ICC, after playing series after series outside Asia still they get routed every time they step outside Asia.


But they haven't stopped touring outside Asia, have they? But here in this thread we r suggesting Bangla to do well in tests without playing tests

Then there's also the injuries that come with playing more tests, you think the likes of Taskin, Shakib, Mehedi would keep themselves fit 12 months in a row, assuming they don't prioritize LO games over tests or vice versa?

U've made some interesting points. Yes, U r right about the fact that players will start getting injured if they start playing more tests.

But this is where different set of players for different forms of cricket comes into play.

Why do u think Bangla doesn't have a different pool of players for tests like many other teams in world atm. It's because of the fact that they don't play that many tests.


Let's take the example of Bangla middle order batsman mominul. An excellent prospect with sound quality and has the temperament to play long innings.

But sadly because he's considered a test specialist he hardly gets any chance to play Matches. If Bangla start selecting specific players for specific format then those who will get selected for test format will hardly play any international cricket.


The only solution to this problem is if Bangla gets the Chance to play tests much more frequently. If they do, they will be able to select different pool of players for test format and u'll see less and less LOI type approach from them.

Some of the posters in this thread make it sound as if, Bangladesh play more test = problem solved? Playing ten tests a year will only get you to a level of WI or NZ, at best, what makes a test team, at the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam ~ mental fortitude or test mentality & even then you aren't guaranteed results as England in India or India in England previously showed. In the meantime what Bangladesh test players can work on is cutting down the risk of dismissals, shelve the stupid shots & don't try to emulate Sehwag/Warner/Tamim even on roads.

I'm also one of those posters mate. U've to start at somewhere, right? If playing 10/15 tests get them to the level of WI or kiwis, then be it. Let them reach to that level by allowing them playing more tests and then see what happens.

Yes, I agree with u about the fact that Bangla needs to improve their first class structure and needs to make it much more competitive and meaningful.


But that's a long process and I'm pretty sure that their Board has already started the process. This doesn't mean that they should play less and less tests which is what this thread tried to suggest. Bangla certainly can't just wait for proper test players to come through the pipe line and do nothing till then, that's an unrealistic suggestion.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

If you check up, Bangladesh has indeed lost to associates like Afghanistan, Hong Kong in recent past, which Bangladesh seems to imagine are their glory days. But such losses are simply forgotten in an instant and thrown into the bin with some dumb excuses.

And India has lost to that same Bangladesh side...

 

[Tekcirc]

And India has lost to that same Bangladesh side...

Plz read some of my post in this thread, I dont want to keep repeating replies for what I already had described as bone headed.

 

[Abdullah719]

You would hope so...

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Playing more Tests will only add to their misery.
It will help ICC to strip them off their Test status. So better follow Zim and dont play any more Tests.

Yes, you can play with Ireland, Afghanistan and ZIM.

The test championship should have had 8 teams. No point adding minnows to it.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

They have won tests at home against England and Australia and have won against SL away.But they aren’t at the level of other top teams yet.

 

[Hasan123]

They are decent at home but away from home they rarely compete against non minnows.