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Will Steve Smith/Virat Kohli surpass Sachin Tendulkar in stature as batters by the time they retire?

Bhaijaan

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Smith averages close to 65 right now in tests
Kohli averages 60+ in ODIs, 50+ in T20i

Going purely by averages, it seems both of these batsmen have put themselves in a very good position to end up being remembered as greater batsmen than Tendulkar in one particular format.

Do you think things will go this way for next 5-10 years in favour of them.



Both formats combined though, it seems Tendulkar will still remain a phenomena. He was able to dominate tests and ODIs simultaneously which these two have not been able to. Kohli almost there but still well behidn Smith in tests. Smith is a very good LOI batsman but still well behind Kohli and quite a few other star LOI batsmen.
 
Both are going to be better than Tendulkar.

Kohli averages a bit higher (for now) than Sachin and he's a great captain. Has scored in all conditions (Tests)
Brilliant ODI player but chokes a lot under pressure. !so did Tendulkar though) Kohli has time to turn it around though.

Smith is far better as a test batsmen he's just inhuman. As for ODIs he's not as good but a useful, gutsy player.
 
Kohli has to prove himself in World Cups for that.

Smith and de Villiers have surpassed Tendulkar in stature.
 
Only Smith will surpass tendulakar Australian and western media are already calling him second best after Bradman. The Fact is to average 65 after 70 games in tests is much better than average 54.

For kholi ODIs are different game now as to 90s so I would say that comparison is unfair.
 
Let’s see if they can someday make it to cricket bible WISDEN’s All Time Test XI, Tendulkar already did.
 
Kohli will have to win a wc and Smith is at least a few tiers below as far as limited over cricket is concerned.

There is a reason why Sachin is the greatest of all time, he basically had no weak points, performed everywhere, at the biggest of stages, against the best of the bowlers and in all formats.
 
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Kohli has to prove himself in World Cups for that.

Smith and de Villiers have surpassed Tendulkar in stature.

De Villiers is nowhere close to SRT as a test batsman..

As far as Smith and Kohli, we will see after 3-4 years. They seem to be well on track, especially Smith in tests.
 
Smith is already streets ahead of Sachin and this is coming from a Sachin fan. Kohli is a joke and he is no where near Sachin let alone Smith.
 
Kohli - not a chance.

Smith - has about 50% chance of ending up as a better test batsman than Tendulkar IMO.
 
Kohli needs to keep scoring in tests and perform in the WC to surpass Sachin.

Smith needs to improve in ODIs to surpass Sachin.

Will be difficult for Smith to surpass Sachin, but Kohli has a good chance.
 
Smith has already surpassed Tendulkar in tests.

Kohli has failed in WC far too many times, I don't think he can surpass Tendulkar.
 
In ODI+Tests combined not a chance.

In Tests, Smith has a good chance of surpassing SRT/Lara.
In LOI's, Kohli has a decent chance of surpassing SRT. Depends on nest world cup.
 
Kohli can definitely surpass Tendulkar in ODI format (in terms of number of centuries and number of runs).

Smith can surpass Tendulkar in Test.

These two players are the only ones with real chances.
 
The fact that two players have to be named vs one Tendulkar says it all. Smith in tests and Kohli in ODI's.

Tendulkar is a great in both formats. But the same cannot be said of Kohli, Smith, ABD or anyone else.
 
De Villiers is nowhere close to SRT as a test batsman..

As far as Smith and Kohli, we will see after 3-4 years. They seem to be well on track, especially Smith in tests.

de Villiers versatility puts him on par with Tendulkar.

Smith is unproven in Gareebon Ka ODIs and Kohli in Ameeron Ka ODIs.
 
The fact that two players have to be named vs one Tendulkar says it all. Smith in tests and Kohli in ODI's.

Tendulkar is a great in both formats. But the same cannot be said of Kohli, Smith, ABD or anyone else.
This.

Although Kohli, the ODI batsman is streets ahead of Smith, the ODI bat.
 
As for Smith as test bat Vs Tendulkar the test bat, well Smith hasn't even played the half the no. of tests Tendulkar did in his test career.

Let him play 100+ tests and then probably we'll get a better idea.
 
It would ne unfair at this point of time that Smith has surpassed even Ponting as an Aussie great.

Longevity is hard.

Ponting too averaged 59 in tests at one point.

Smith has definitely taken it a level above but there are still many mountains to climb.

Ponting is 6k time away and Tendulkar is 9k runs away.

Couple of bad Ashes against quality English bowling could turn things around.
 
As for Virat Kohli, people have already started pointing out his mediocre world cup record.

Tendulkar dominated three world cups.
 
Kohli has missed the boat.

Smith has a chance if he continues to dominate in Tests and leads Aus to another WC.
 
It would ne unfair at this point of time that Smith has surpassed even Ponting as an Aussie great.

Longevity is hard.

Ponting too averaged 59 in tests at one point.

Smith has definitely taken it a level above but there are still many mountains to climb.

Ponting is 6k <B>time</B> away and Tendulkar is 9k runs away.

Couple of bad Ashes against quality English bowling could turn things around.

Ain't that too far?
 
Kohli has missed the boat.

No he hasnt.

If he dominates 2 of the next 3 world cups till 2031 and score 10,000 more test runs while maintaining a healthy he would open up the debate.
 
So kohli is gonna play 3 more worldcups? i guess 2 max.

In which case he has to dominate both world cups he plays now otherwise the bilateral record would not be enough to tilt the arguement in his favour. Most people would acknowledge Tendulkar's output in Kohli's era of batting would also be greater than his existing record.
 
Smith as a test batsmen is better than any batsmen since Bradman.

Kohli is a legendary cricketer as well but he is not a better test batter to Tendulkar, Lara and Smith from past 30 years. His WC performance is also average compared to Tendulkar's record in WC.
 
No he hasnt.

If he dominates 2 of the next 3 world cups till 2031 and score 10,000 more test runs while maintaining a healthy he would open up the debate.

I cant understand the link between domination of world cups to surpass Tendulakar stature?
Yuvi and Klusener also dominated. What about Ricky ponting stature on the basis of world cup domination?

What are the parameters considering to evaluate stature?
 
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Smith as a test batsmen is better than any batsmen since Bradman.

Kohli is a legendary cricketer as well but he is not a better test batter to Tendulkar, Lara and Smith from past 30 years. His WC performance is also average compared to Tendulkar's record in WC.

Kohli has outperformed Lara in test cricket at this point. A lot of Lara's famous knocks were selfish knocks.
 
Smith has already suprassed in Tests.

Only thing Tendulkar has going for him is longevity but imo if you played 100 Tests you have had enough longevity
 
If you look at it from a Test perspective, Smith is better than Sachin as the averages show but as an all round cricketer, he cannot match Sachin. Also his legacy will be associated with the ball tampering scandal. Kohli is a much better all round cricketer and has a better chance of equalliing or surpassing Sachin. He is nearly there in ODI and may get there in Test cricket in about 5 years.... But then, the standard of bowling then is not what it is now. We have had Sachin/ Murali/Warne/McGrath/Wasim/Shoaib/Donald which were legendary battles. I cant think of any bowler now who could challenge Kohli/Smith on a regular basis and make them their bunnies or even put a good fight. Anderson and Broad may have the wickets but were never intimidating and are conservative bowlers who do well at home and sporadically outside. Steyn was the only one who in the current era who could have challenged Smith/Kohli but he is past it now.
 
I cant understand the link between domination of world cups to surpass Tendulakar stature?
Yuvi and Klusener also dominated. What about Ricky ponting stature on the basis of world cup domination?

What are the parameters considering to evaluate stature?

Yuvi, Ponting and Klusener dominated one world cup each. Tendulkar dominated three of them. Kohli has not even been great in one worldncuo yet let alone having dominated one.
 
Smith's ball tampering scandal will be bigger than any records. He cannot inspire the upcoming generation.

Same with Azharuddin case. Azhar has won many matches for india but people talk very rarely about it.

Sachin and Kohli will remain top and insure many youths especially in India.
 
Smith's ball tampering scandal will be bigger than any records. He cannot inspire the upcoming generation.

Same with Azharuddin case. Azhar has won many matches for india but people talk very rarely about it.

Sachin and Kohli will remain top and insure many youths especially in India.

What about ball tampering of Dravid, underarm of Chappell, bodyline of Larwood, dichkeadedness of Hammond. All four are remembered as great cricketers
 
By his 100th Test how many 100's had Sachin got?
And at their current rate how many 100's will Smith and Kohli by their 100th Test?
 
Smith has already surpassed every test batsmen bar Bradman - the guy averages 65 in over 70 test matches. 10 runs more than Sachin, Lara, Dravid, Kallis, Kholi et all.
 
By his 100th Test how many 100's had Sachin got?
And at their current rate how many 100's will Smith and Kohli by their 100th Test?

Kohli has same number of centuries atthis point of time after same number of innings. Guess Smith would be having a slightly better record although it comes down to conversion rate ratehr than batting average.

Anyway, Tendukkar/Lara operated in a different era
 
- Kohli needs 7 more 100s in ODIs to overtake Tendulkar's ODI 100s which are 49. Shouldnt be much of a problem for Virat by the looks of it. While in tests he has no chance until something exceptional happens.

- Smith scores a century in every 2.65 games and currently has 27 so if he can somehow play 65 tests from here he will score 24-25 more centuries surpassing Tendulkar's 51.

Tendulkar played 200 test matches and 463 ODIs which allowed him more opportunities to score tons. Unless someone started at 15-17 years of age, it was always gonna be difficult to beat Tendulkar's record as otherwise you cant play as many matches. Kohli and Smith have been just exceptional and that is why they are even being considered to break such a record.
 
- Kohli needs 7 more 100s in ODIs to overtake Tendulkar's ODI 100s which are 49. Shouldnt be much of a problem for Virat by the looks of it. While in tests he has no chance until something exceptional happens.

Tendulkar played 200 test matches and 463 ODIs which allowed him more opportunities to score tons. Unless someone started at 15-17 years of age, it was always gonna be difficult to beat Tendulkar's record as otherwise you cant play as many matches. Kohli and Smith have been just exceptional and that is why they are even being considered to break such a record.
lol, someone is totally clueless about Tendulkar.

Tendulkar played that many games because he was good enough to play that many games.

- Smith scores a century in every 2.65 games and currently has 27 so if he can somehow play 65 tests from here he will score 24-25 more centuries surpassing Tendulkar's 51.
Even bigger lol. As if its as easy as you're making it look.
 
I don't like Virat Kohli, but he is a far greater batsman than Tendulkar ever was.

Apart from the fact that his white ball record is on a different planet, in Test cricket Kohli averages 49.77 in the fourth innings, which is when the big boys have to come out and play to win or save the match.

Tendulkar averaged a mediocre 36.93 in the fourth innings.
 
They didn't exactly face same set of bowlers. Probably for a brief period Kohli and Sachin did. From a batsmanship point of view neither of them can go past Sachin. Sachin grossly under-achieved with his talent and technique. Failed to have a killer series. Always got out when he could have piled on and on. For instance the test match where Kambli made 224 vs England , Tendulkar was in absolute command. Batting at 50 out of nowhere he played a stupid shot. There were many instance when Sachin failed to convert his starts into a big one. On that score Kohli/Smith are better. One common thing between the three is the amount of work they put in the nets. They work really really hard.
 
people forget also that at 38 Sachin once again became ranked the number 1 batsmen in the world

Big deal.

Clive Lloyd retired as the World Number 1 batsman at the age of 40.

And his final two Test series were away to India and away to Australia.

And he was the greatest captain of all time.

Unfortunately for those of us who aren't Asian, history has not been kind to Tendulkar. He is admired with almost religious zeal in India, but Virat Kohli is achieving all the things that many of us have been pointing out that Tendulkar wasn't quite good enough to achieve.

He is starting to look like Keith Miller: a superb cricketer but one whose legend possibly outstrips the greatness of his actual performances.
 
I don't like Virat Kohli, but he is a far greater batsman than Tendulkar ever was.

Apart from the fact that his white ball record is on a different planet, in Test cricket Kohli averages 49.77 in the fourth innings, which is when the big boys have to come out and play to win or save the match.

Tendulkar averaged a mediocre 36.93 in the fourth innings.

Far greater? How can one ATG be 'far greater' than another unless it is Bradman we are talking about? Speaking of white ball cricket what has Kohli done in World Cups? Sachin was top scorer in 2 editions, 2nd highest in 2011 and maximum man of the match awards including 3 against Pakistan.

Since you are obsessed with 4th innings averages would you agree that Kohli and a dozen other current batsmen are better than Steve Smith? FYI Smith averages 30.68 in 4th innings despite playing many matches on flat roads of Australia, only 4 50s and not a single 100. I take it that Kohli, Pujara, Rahane all are better than Smith in test cricket right now?

PS- [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] here is the link http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
 
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Far greater? How can one ATG be 'far greater' than another unless it is Bradman we are talking about? Speaking of white ball cricket what has Kohli done in World Cups? Sachin was top scorer in 2 editions, 2nd highest in 2011 and maximum man of the match awards including 3 against Pakistan.

Since you are obsessed with 4th innings averages would you agree that Kohli and a dozen other current batsmen are better than Steve Smith? FYI Smith averages 30.68 in 4th innings despite playing many matches on flat roads of Australia, only 4 50s and not a single 100. I take it that Kohli, Pujara, Rahane all are better than Smith in test cricket right now?

PS- [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] here is the link http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
Almost.

I think that Steve Smith has a deceptively good record because on certain surfaces he is an absolutely superb batsman.

But his fourth innings performances are inadequate to qualify him for greatness. And more than that, I was in South Africa in February and March 2018 when Smith and De Villiers collided.

A month earlier, Kohli had almost been the equal of De Villiers on tricky pitches. But when Australia toured a month later it was obvious to everybody there that Steve Smith was not in the same class as AB De Villiers as a Test batsman, let alone a white ball one.

As I said, Smith can be supreme in certain conditions. But there are other conditions, in terms of bowling, pitches and handling pressure, which find out Steve Smith as being not quite of the highest class.
 
Kohli >> Smith overall as a player in all formats. He is a complete package one would pay to watch. He is a bit like 90's Pakistani players.
 
Almost.

I think that Steve Smith has a deceptively good record because on certain surfaces he is an absolutely superb batsman.

But his fourth innings performances are inadequate to qualify him for greatness. And more than that, I was in South Africa in February and March 2018 when Smith and De Villiers collided.

A month earlier, Kohli had almost been the equal of De Villiers on tricky pitches. But when Australia toured a month later it was obvious to everybody there that Steve Smith was not in the same class as AB De Villiers as a Test batsman, let alone a white ball one.

As I said, Smith can be supreme in certain conditions. But there are other conditions, in terms of bowling, pitches and handling pressure, which find out Steve Smith as being not quite of the highest class.

All players have bad series. Does the fact that smith averaged 71 in an away series against Ashwin and Jadeja, vastly better spinners in Indian conditions than Lyon and O'Keefe, compared to Kohli averaging less than 10 at home mean that smith is hugely better than Kohli?

Smith has conditions (Eng, Aus, Ind) where he has performed better than Kohli, and Kohli has a single condition (SA) where he outperformed Smith. In general, smith has been better in test cricket over a variety of conditons than Kohli, and this is reflected by a significantly higher average.
 
I don't like Virat Kohli, but he is a far greater batsman than Tendulkar ever was.

Apart from the fact that his white ball record is on a different planet, in Test cricket Kohli averages 49.77 in the fourth innings, which is when the big boys have to come out and play to win or save the match.

Tendulkar averaged a mediocre 36.93 in the fourth innings.

And Smith averages a Bradman like 114 in the first innings of a match since 2014, while Kohli averages 61 over the same period. More matches are decided by a big first innings total than a run chase in the 4th innings, so does this mean that Smith is a bigger match winner than Kohli
 
I don't like Virat Kohli, but he is a far greater batsman than Tendulkar ever was.

Apart from the fact that his white ball record is on a different planet, in Test cricket Kohli averages 49.77 in the fourth innings, which is when the big boys have to come out and play to win or save the match.

Tendulkar averaged a mediocre 36.93 in the fourth innings.

Steve Waugh averages 25 in 4th innings while Ganguly averages 37. The gap is 12 runs in average, almost as much as between Kohli and Tendulkar in 4th innings. Who was the better Test batsman? :))
 
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Tendulkar 3 MoM's in 5 world cup matches against Pakistan, including the one in 92 WC. Maybe thats why [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] bhai don't rate him :afridi
 
I think both Smith and Kohli can score more 100's then Sachin.

I even think Kane has a chance as he would be at almost at 30 100's already by now but hes been out so many times in the 90's (think its around 8),, plus Kane is a bit younger than the other two.

At one stage it looked like Ponting would easily score over 50 100's so anything can happen. Think there is chance that Smith could drop off just as big as Ponting or Cook.
 
Steve Waugh averages 25 in 4th innings while Ganguly averages 37. The gap is 12 runs in average, almost as much as between Kohli and Tendulkar in 4th innings. Who was the better Test batsman? :))

Ponting averages 50 in fourth innings does it mean he is better than Tendulkar.
 
I think both Smith and Kohli can score more 100's then Sachin.

I even think Kane has a chance as he would be at almost at 30 100's already by now but hes been out so many times in the 90's (think its around 8),, plus Kane is a bit younger than the other two.

At one stage it looked like Ponting would easily score over 50 100's so anything can happen. Think there is chance that Smith could drop off just as big as Ponting or Cook.

Kane can't because Newzealand don't play more test matches than India, Australia,England.
 
Smith is he keep on averaging 65 whole 10 runs per innings more than Sachin there cant be any arguments who is scoring more and is better batsman - I rate him a better test batsman than Sachin as of now with an * that it can change if he average dips below or close to Sachin.

Kholi I dont think will quite match Sachin in test but he is already the best ODI batsman (ODI) we have ever seen only one who comes close is Sir Viv.
 
Ponting averages 50 in fourth innings does it mean he is better than Tendulkar.

This mean Ponting was a clutch player but not better player overall - Indeed Sachin failed to score in some clutch situations resulting in opposition winning.
 
Smith is he keep on averaging 65 whole 10 runs per innings more than Sachin there cant be any arguments who is scoring more and is better batsman - I rate him a better test batsman than Sachin as of now with an * that it can change if he average dips below or close to Sachin.

Kholi I dont think will quite match Sachin in test but he is already the best ODI batsman (ODI) we have ever seen only one who comes close is Sir Viv.

Average can't be the be all, end all. Otherwise Sir Viv will be below many many players in test cricket, but that is not the case. Border and Miandad will themselves tell you that.

Rahane averages more than Gundappa Vishwanath, Asad Shafiq more than Asif Iqbal but does it mean they are better? Numerous other examples in test cricket when you do the cross era comparisons. I won't rate Younis Khan above Ponting or Sanga above Lara based on stats even though their careers overlapped.
 
Sachin was an average player. He faced mediocre bowling attack. Gavaskar was the genius , as he fought mighty WI attack.
At the best Sachin was good in LOI.
Kohli, Smith are way ahead and passed him few years back.
Wait and watch, Babbar will overtake Sachin.
 
Average can't be the be all, end all. Otherwise Sir Viv will be below many many players in test cricket, but that is not the case. Border and Miandad will themselves tell you that.

Rahane averages more than Gundappa Vishwanath, Asad Shafiq more than Asif Iqbal but does it mean they are better? Numerous other examples in test cricket when you do the cross era comparisons. I won't rate Younis Khan above Ponting or Sanga above Lara based on stats even though their careers overlapped.

10 runs more per innings is too much to ignore - he is definitely better than Sachin currently but can change as he is not finished yet.
 
Sachin was an average player. He faced mediocre bowling attack. Gavaskar was the genius , as he fought mighty WI attack.
At the best Sachin was good in LOI.
Kohli, Smith are way ahead and passed him few years back.
Wait and watch, Babbar will overtake Sachin.

Be careful what you wrote down.
 
Sachin was an average player. He faced mediocre bowling attack. Gavaskar was the genius , as he fought mighty WI attack.
At the best Sachin was good in LOI.
Kohli, Smith are way ahead and passed him few years back.
Wait and watch, Babbar will overtake Sachin.

You triggered Tendulkar fans.
 
lol, someone is totally clueless about Tendulkar.

Tendulkar played that many games because he was good enough to play that many games.


Even bigger lol. As if its as easy as you're making it look.

Somebody is Tendulkar's die hard fan boy by the looks of it. Who said Tendulkar wasnt good? However, if he wouldnt have debuted at the age of 15 rather post 20s he wouldnt have played as many matches as he did.

Centuries aside there are countless batsmen with a much higher average than him. Playing 200 matches is a big achievement and being consistent as well however there were many who were much more consistent than him but not that early boomers as batsman and thus couldnt play more matches.

Based upon matches it take to make a century there are quite a lot of batsmen who have better ratio and even would have played 75% of Tendulkar's matches they would have been ahead by a good margin.

To Tendulkar's credit he started matured earlier and lasted long.

Regarding Smith I am not predicting anything, have just put forward the stats, no need to consider it an arrow to the heart.
 
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- Kohli needs 7 more 100s in ODIs to overtake Tendulkar's ODI 100s which are 49. Shouldnt be much of a problem for Virat by the looks of it. While in tests he has no chance until something exceptional happens.

- Smith scores a century in every 2.65 games and currently has 27 so if he can somehow play 65 tests from here he will score 24-25 more centuries surpassing Tendulkar's 51.

Tendulkar played 200 test matches and 463 ODIs which allowed him more opportunities to score tons. Unless someone started at 15-17 years of age, it was always gonna be difficult to beat Tendulkar's record as otherwise you cant play as many matches. Kohli and Smith have been just exceptional and that is why they are even being considered to break such a record.

When you stop making hundreds you just stop making hundreds.

Tendulkar, Ponting, Amla, Cook all struggled to hit test hundreds by the end of their careers.

You can't just extrapolate Smith and Kohli's peak performance to conclude they will smash record books so easily. You have to be bloody good to play 200 tests it's a bigger tribute to Tendulkar than in fact that 100 hundreds. He was world class for 24 years. Its ridiculous.
 
In terms of stats, both of them could surpass but in terms of aura no chance. As many 90s kids on this forum would remember, cricket didn't have a bigger superstar than him until then. It's like Coldplay would have done more record sales than Beatles, but would Coldplay ever match the madness and craze about Beatles, don't think so.

As Rolling Stone magazine said that the impact of the Beatles – not only on rock & roll but on all of Western culture – is simply incalculable.
 
Steve Smith will probably finish as the better test player. But for him to surpass Kohli and Tendulkar as batters , he needs to improve in LO.
 
Tendulkar has not achieved anything extraordinary. Ponting has achieved more than him in tests, Symonds and Jayasurya achieved more than him in ODI's. He was not good enough to play T20s.
Lara is class above all of them , so will not enter into that comparison.
 
Smith is too far behind in ODI format. Kohli has a chance.

SRT was top 3 batsman in both formats in bulk of his playing years.

Dhoni, Smith etc have dominated in one format, but far behind from top 3 in other format.
 
No one cares about different formats. Test is all there is.

Why is that only SC fans who come up with this nonsense?
 
No one cares about different formats. Test is all there is.

Why is that only SC fans who come up with this nonsense?

More fans watch shorter formats outside of SC as well. Kallis last day in test couldn't get crowd in SA.
 
No one cares about different formats. Test is all there is.

Why is that only SC fans who come up with this nonsense?

They do. Only a few select fans on the Internet pretend that they don’t and I don’t know why. Pretending that ODIs and T20s do not exist and “Test is all there is” isn’t backed by a shred of evidence.

Look at how desperate England were to win the 2019 World Cup. How desperate South Africa were to win the 2015 World Cup. Heck, failure to win that World Cup almost broke de Villiers.

Kallis, one of the greats of Test cricket retired from the format early because he wanted one final crack at the World Cup in 2015.

Steyn was desperate to play in the 2019 World Cup in spite of the fact that his body couldn’t hold up anymore.

If ODIs didn’t matter Australia wouldn’t have won 5 World Cups.

I could go on and on and on.

Is Test cricket more important followed by ODI cricket and then T20 cricket? Yes absolutely. However, to say that no one cares about the other formats is a laughable lie that is not backed by facts and evidence.

Certain Test greats do not underperform in ODIs and T20s respectively because they don’t care; they under perform because they are not good enough and versatile enough to dominate all three formats at the same time.

I am not talking about Smith here, who is an excellent Limited Overs batsman too. Not as good as a Kohli but still excellent. I am talking about the several Test specialists who couldn’t and can’t deliver in Limited Overs cricket.

Players who excel in all three formats are the best cricketers in the world and deserve the most respect and recognition. Not Test specialists, ODI specialists or T20 specialists. The ones who dominate all three formats at the same time.

However, as I said, Tests are relatively more important so Test specialists carry more prestige than ODI or T20 specialists.
 
They do. Only a few select fans on the Internet pretend that they don’t and I don’t know why. Pretending that ODIs and T20s do not exist and “Test is all there is” isn’t backed by a shred of evidence.

Look at how desperate England were to win the 2019 World Cup. How desperate South Africa were to win the 2015 World Cup. Heck, failure to win that World Cup almost broke de Villiers.

Kallis, one of the greats of Test cricket retired from the format early because he wanted one final crack at the World Cup in 2015.

Steyn was desperate to play in the 2019 World Cup in spite of the fact that his body couldn’t hold up anymore.

If ODIs didn’t matter Australia wouldn’t have won 5 World Cups.

I could go on and on and on.

Is Test cricket more important followed by ODI cricket and then T20 cricket? Yes absolutely. However, to say that no one cares about the other formats is a laughable lie that is not backed by facts and evidence.

Certain Test greats do not underperform in ODIs and T20s respectively because they don’t care; they under perform because they are not good enough and versatile enough to dominate all three formats at the same time.

I am not talking about Smith here, who is an excellent Limited Overs batsman too. Not as good as a Kohli but still excellent. I am talking about the several Test specialists who couldn’t and can’t deliver in Limited Overs cricket.

Players who excel in all three formats are the best cricketers in the world and deserve the most respect and recognition. Not Test specialists, ODI specialists or T20 specialists. The ones who dominate all three formats at the same time.

However, as I said, Tests are relatively more important so Test specialists carry more prestige than ODI or T20 specialists.

I can understand that all Cricket fans would care about WC. But there is no comparison between bilateral ODI series/ T20 vs Test. Test format will always remain gold standard for players' greatness because:

1) That's the only format that has been played for 100 years and still has remained relatively unchanged. Therefore, only way to compare Sobers to Lara is through Test format as Sobers didn't play ODI.

2) It's a real test of character and player's stamina. 5 day contest is grueling. Momentum can keep shifting dramatically like pendulum. Being successful in test is far more mentally and physically taxing than other formats.

3) In tests, there is no limit to how many overs a bowler can bowl. They can bowl short and also use the full crease without being called wide. There is also no such rubbish as free hits after no ball. So, basically for a batsman there is no where to hide.

I can understand if two players are really close in test, then you can compare them across other formats. But when there is as big of a gap as Smith vs next best test batsman, shorter formats are practically irrelevant.
 
In terms of stats, both of them could surpass but in terms of aura no chance. As many 90s kids on this forum would remember, cricket didn't have a bigger superstar than him until then. It's like Coldplay would have done more record sales than Beatles, but would Coldplay ever match the madness and craze about Beatles, don't think so.

As Rolling Stone magazine said that the impact of the Beatles – not only on rock & roll but on all of Western culture – is simply incalculable.
Well said...
 
I can understand that all Cricket fans would care about WC. But there is no comparison between bilateral ODI series/ T20 vs Test. Test format will always remain gold standard for players' greatness because:

1) That's the only format that has been played for 100 years and still has remained relatively unchanged. Therefore, only way to compare Sobers to Lara is through Test format as Sobers didn't play ODI.

2) It's a real test of character and player's stamina. 5 day contest is grueling. Momentum can keep shifting dramatically like pendulum. Being successful in test is far more mentally and physically taxing than other formats.

3) In tests, there is no limit to how many overs a bowler can bowl. They can bowl short and also use the full crease without being called wide. There is also no such rubbish as free hits after no ball. So, basically for a batsman there is no where to hide.

I can understand if two players are really close in test, then you can compare them across other formats. But when there is as big of a gap as Smith vs next best test batsman, shorter formats are practically irrelevant.

It is pointless to compare Sobers and Lara because Sobers never played ODIs. However, if two players have played both Tests and ODIs in the same era, then the one who has done better across both formats is obviously the better player.

Tendulkar and Lara was almost neck to neck in Tests, but there was no comparison between the two in ODIs after 1999. Lara was a mediocre ODI batsman in the 2000s, but Tendulkar was world class till 2011. Hence, it is pretty easy to deduce that Tendulkar was a better batsman than Lara.

The skills that you pointed out in points 1,2 and 3 are Test-specific skills. They are not superior or greater than white ball skills. Both Tests and ODIs/T20s require a different set skills. They are not superior or inferior, they are just different and I will explain.

A Test specialist can play a textbook front-foot defense, but he cannot hit a ramp shot to a 90 mph bowler. Why? Because he doesn’t have the skill or the talent for it.

Similarly, a Test specialist like Pujara cannot bat for two days to save a Test, but he cannot score 50 in 20 balls if the situation demands. He has the character and stamina to bat for two days, but not the skill, the technique or the talent for power-hitting and improvisation.

Proponents of Test cricket often say that Test skills are superior. If that was true, then the Test specialists would have easily performed the inferior Limited Overs skills but they cannot. Hence, they are not superior. They are just different.

Similarly, someone like Pollard can score 50 in 17 balls but he cannot grind in Test cricket. Does that make Pollard superior? No, because he has the skills for power-hitting but not the character, technique and stamina to grind in Test cricket.

Pujara is a better Test batsman than Rohit, but he is actually a better overall batsman? Clearly not. Pujara is rubbish at Limited Overs cricket but Rohit is not rubbish at Test cricket.

The batsmen (and the bowlers) who excel in all three formats are the true elite players, and the best among these elite players is the one who excels across these three formats better than others.

Smith is a wonderful Limited Overs batsman, but the gap between him and Kohli is massive. However, the gap between the two is not that big in Tests. Smith is undoubtedly better, but not by the same margin as Kohli is in Limited Overs.

There are the two best batsmen in the world today but Kohli is better because he is more complete and versatile.

As far as ODI results are concerned, it is true that bilateral Tests have a lot more significance than bilateral ODIs. Some would argue that winning a Test series in India, Australia and England is better than winning the World Cup. However, you cannot win a World Cup without working hard in bilateral ODIs. That is where you prepare your team for the World Cup and thus, the results matter because they reflect your preparation.
 
In terms of stats, both of them could surpass but in terms of aura no chance. As many 90s kids on this forum would remember, cricket didn't have a bigger superstar than him until then. It's like Coldplay would have done more record sales than Beatles, but would Coldplay ever match the madness and craze about Beatles, don't think so.

As Rolling Stone magazine said that the impact of the Beatles – not only on rock & roll but on all of Western culture – is simply incalculable.

90's hangover is still not over net.
 
It is pointless to compare Sobers and Lara because Sobers never played ODIs. However, if two players have played both Tests and ODIs in the same era, then the one who has done better across both formats is obviously the better player.

Tendulkar and Lara was almost neck to neck in Tests, but there was no comparison between the two in ODIs after 1999. Lara was a mediocre ODI batsman in the 2000s, but Tendulkar was world class till 2011. Hence, it is pretty easy to deduce that Tendulkar was a better batsman than Lara.

The skills that you pointed out in points 1,2 and 3 are Test-specific skills. They are not superior or greater than white ball skills. Both Tests and ODIs/T20s require a different set skills. They are not superior or inferior, they are just different and I will explain.

A Test specialist can play a textbook front-foot defense, but he cannot hit a ramp shot to a 90 mph bowler. Why? Because he doesn’t have the skill or the talent for it.

Similarly, a Test specialist like Pujara cannot bat for two days to save a Test, but he cannot score 50 in 20 balls if the situation demands. He has the character and stamina to bat for two days, but not the skill, the technique or the talent for power-hitting and improvisation.

Proponents of Test cricket often say that Test skills are superior. If that was true, then the Test specialists would have easily performed the inferior Limited Overs skills but they cannot. Hence, they are not superior. They are just different.

Similarly, someone like Pollard can score 50 in 17 balls but he cannot grind in Test cricket. Does that make Pollard superior? No, because he has the skills for power-hitting but not the character, technique and stamina to grind in Test cricket.

Pujara is a better Test batsman than Rohit, but he is actually a better overall batsman? Clearly not. Pujara is rubbish at Limited Overs cricket but Rohit is not rubbish at Test cricket.

The batsmen (and the bowlers) who excel in all three formats are the true elite players, and the best among these elite players is the one who excels across these three formats better than others.

Smith is a wonderful Limited Overs batsman, but the gap between him and Kohli is massive. However, the gap between the two is not that big in Tests. Smith is undoubtedly better, but not by the same margin as Kohli is in Limited Overs.

There are the two best batsmen in the world today but Kohli is better because he is more complete and versatile.

As far as ODI results are concerned, it is true that bilateral Tests have a lot more significance than bilateral ODIs. Some would argue that winning a Test series in India, Australia and England is better than winning the World Cup. However, you cannot win a World Cup without working hard in bilateral ODIs. That is where you prepare your team for the World Cup and thus, the results matter because they reflect your preparation.

What happened to South Africa who were king of bilaterals still they get flopped in the World Cup?
Australia weren't favourites in 1999,1987 they won the World Cup.
England won the world cup but most of us were not satisfied at that time because they didn't won fair and square (surely they deserved better victory).
 
What happened to South Africa who were king of bilaterals still they get flopped in the World Cup?
Australia weren't favourites in 1999,1987 they won the World Cup.
England won the world cup but most of us were not satisfied at that time because they didn't won fair and square (surely they deserved better victory).

South Africa were unlucky and they also couldn’t perform in the moment because of pressure. You can prepare all you want, but you also need the mental strength to deliver when the time comes. However, preparation takes you far and that is why South Africa always made an impact on World Cups before falling short.

England got lucky in the final but the way they fought back to qualify for the final by thrashing in India, New Zealand and Australia in consecutive was games quite remarkable. They showed a lot of guts in the World Cup when people questioned their ability to perform under pressure.

Favorites don’t always win the World Cups but the usually go deep into the tournament thanks to their preparation.

1975 - West Indies favorites, won the World Cup

1979 - same as above

1983 - West Indies, favorites made the final

1987 - Pakistan favorites, made the semi-final

1992 - New Zealand favorites, made the final

1996 - Pakistan, India and South Africa were favorites - India made the semis, Pakistan lost the quarterfinal to India and South Africa made the quarter-final

1999 - South Africa favorites, lost the semi-final

2003 - Australia favorites, won the World Cup

2007 - same as above

2011 - India favorites, won the World Cup

2015 - Australia favorites, won the World Cup

2019 - England favorites, won the World Cup

There is a very clear trend here, with the exception (arguably) of 1996. If you want to win the World Cup, preparing hard for it will maximize your chances of reaching the final stages of the tournament. If you want to rely on luck and fluke, you will be left praying for miracles like Pakistan.
 
sachin was a choker.
Good player but lacked the mentality to be the best. He was selfish and went for personal glory. Something I see in babar too. I am afraid barber's ceiling would only be around tendulkar's level. Although tenda is a great player he never managed to perform when it mattered in tests.

If tenda had kohli's mentality and put the team above himself then he would have been a GOAT. I hope babar doesn't follow in his footsteps.
 
sachin was a choker.
Good player but lacked the mentality to be the best. He was selfish and went for personal glory. Something I see in babar too. I am afraid barber's ceiling would only be around tendulkar's level. Although tenda is a great player he never managed to perform when it mattered in tests.

If tenda had kohli's mentality and put the team above himself then he would have been a GOAT. I hope babar doesn't follow in his footsteps.

Tendulkar was averaging 60 in tests at one point something that Kohli has to achieve.
Till 185 tests he averaged 56 because of his last 2 year's his average gone down to 53,he should have retired after worldcup.
 
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