Yasir Shah vs Stuart MacGill - Who is the second greatest leggie of the modern era?

[Leo23]

MacGill was one of the most unluckiest players in history. a world class leg spinner who was robbed of a long international career because of shane warne (the undisputed goat)

in any other era he would have played 100+ tests and taken 400+ wickets

yasir shah is quite clearly the best leg spinner since shane warne but how does he compare to macgill?

certainly warne is the best leg spinner of all time and obviously the modern era,but who is number 2?

yasir or macgill?

discuss

* by modern era i mean post 1990 so that excludes qadir *

 

[Slog]

Kumble - if you consider him as a leg spinner ie.

Many people dont though

 

[Slog]

also what is the modern era?

if you include 60's and 70s, Benuad, Oreilly, Chandrashekar are way ahead. Qadir too despite many holes in his record. And perhaps others too who i dont know about

but if modern era is post 1990 then for me its clearly from these 4:
warne, kumble, mcgill, mushtaq and then comes Yasir.

 

[Leo23]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

thats why i excluded him

kumble was a great bowler but had his own bowling style and skill set. probably the only spin-slow bowler-medium pacer hybrid in history

if ppl consider him a leggie than obviously he is the best after warne but for the sake of this thread i have excluded him bcoz i personally don't consider him a "leg spinner" in the same mould as yasir,macgill,mushtaq,tahir,kaneria,mishra,rashid etc

 

[Leo23]

also what is the modern era?

if you include 60's and 70s, Benuad, Oreilly, Chandrashekar are way ahead. Qadir too despite many holes in his record. And perhaps others too who i dont know about

but if modern era is post 1990 then for me its clearly from these 4:
warne, kumble, mcgill, mushtaq and then comes Yasir.

i did mention that by modern era i mean 1990 onwards

 

[Xoib]

this is the weakest era for test batting vs spin. Mushy would have run riot if he was playing today.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Yasir may end up with more wickets but Mcgill was a better bowler IMO , he is arguably one of the most unfortunate cricketers ever.

If he played for another country or played for Australia when there was no Warne, then he would have been an ATG

 

[Leo23]

this is the weakest era for test batting vs spin. Mushy would have run riot if he was playing today.

apart from his googly mushy was comfortably inferior to yasir and macgill. both are superior all round leggies.

 

[Leo23]

Yasir may end up with more wickets but Mcgill was a better bowler IMO , he is arguably one of the most unfortunate cricketers ever.

If he played for another country or played for Australia when there was no Warne, then he would have been an ATG

i agree but what made macgill better than yasir?

my only problem with yasir is that when the batsmen attack him he often looks lost

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

i agree but what made macgill better than yasir?

my only problem with yasir is that when the batsmen attack him he often looks lost

Mcgill was more complete, spun the bowl more, had a better googly, had a decent flipper
Yasir isnt as gifted in terms of deliveries , Shadab for example has greater variety.

However one thing that people do need to bear in mind is that lot of the time Yasir has been a one man army bowling enormous spells with little support. People tend to forget that fact. Even Ajmal had Abdur Rehman at the other end.

 

[Convict]

MacGill was a great bowler and honestly speaking Australian cricket would have been better if more leg spinners tried to bowl like MacGill rather than the freak Warne.

But I pick the third option - Kumble.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Kumble is the second greatest leg spinner of all time, no if or buts

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Kumble is very underrated at PP.

People always talk about Qadir, Warne or Mushi but exclude him. He had his limitations but the fact is he's got 600+ test scalps.

 

[Ab Fan]

I will go with Kumble.

 

[another drop catch]

imran tahir

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kumble.And Yasir isnt even close to him yet.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I would go with Kaneria.

 

[Leo23]

I would go with Kaneria.

not surprised by your choice of selection. kaneria is better than yasir and macgill in the same universe where gaddafi is the best stadium in asia.

 

[ExpressPacer]

not surprised by your choice of selection. kaneria is better than yasir and macgill in the same universe where gaddafi is the best stadium in asia.

Also the fact that he has more wickets.

 

[lehen]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

thats why i excluded him

kumble was a great bowler but had his own bowling style and skill set. probably the only spin-slow bowler-medium pacer hybrid in history

if ppl consider him a leggie than obviously he is the best after warne but for the sake of this thread i have excluded him bcoz i personally don't consider him a "leg spinner" in the same mould as yasir,macgill,mushtaq,tahir,kaneria,mishra,rashid etc

agreed, Kumble is closer to Mystery spinner category and not a leggie

 

[Leo23]

Also the fact that he has more wickets.

yes. more wickets = better bowler

that is why anderson is better than wasim akram

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

McGill. He is better than Shane warne.

 

[ExpressPacer]

yes. more wickets = better bowler

that is why anderson is better than wasim akram

The logic doesn't apply in this scenario.

 

[Leo23]

The logic doesn't apply in this scenario.

so it only applies to your convenience?

 

[ExpressPacer]

so it only applies to your convenience?

It doesn't apply when you're comparing greats.

 

[Buffet]

Kumble

 

[CricFan2012]

yasir failed again aussies and kiwis, went missing in 2 matches against england, hes very consistent outside of subcontinent like ashwin.

lets give him a few more tours and see how he goes before ranking

 

[sshakir411]

MacGill bowled some good spells. I remember his 6fer against England and it was great..but he was way too inconsistent. He had great variety and could spin it like no other but his control could have been better. Probably would have played a lot more if he was from any other country. Yasir already has made a bigger impact than MacGill ever did, so Yasir.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Mac had the most difficult action to emulate among all the leg spinners I've seen in my life. For the heck of it, I used to try in my backyard bowling like Mac all the time ~ Very open chest action for a leggie.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Lol at Kumble being the 2nd best.

First of all he was a medium pacer in the disguise of a spinner.

Second, he barely spun the ball.

Third, he averages in high 30s outside India.

I will take MacGill. He was an actual leg spinner who would have been an ATG, had he played for any other country.

 

[Suleiman]

Yasir still has a lot to prove. Doesn't deserve to be compared to MacGill just yet.

I think in a few years our own Shadab will surpass Yasir.

 

[kingusama92]

Macgill was seriously talented.

Tough luck being born in the same era as Warne. Kind of like being a pace bowler during Wasim/Waqar's peak. You have no chance.

I think on the sheer weight of longevity and performance, Kumble is the 2nd best leggie in the modern era. It's hard to lean on "what could have been" in such cases.

I also question Kumble's stature as a true leggie. He didn't spin it big barring the odd match on a turner. However, he's a leggie technically and that's what we have to go with.

From what we saw of Macgill, he was good but had flaws.

He struggled in WI and SL but did well in PAK, AUS and BANG. Never got to play anywhere else because of Warne.

 

[Buffet]

Macgill was seriously talented.

Tough luck being born in the same era as Warne. Kind of like being a pace bowler during Wasim/Waqar's peak. You have no chance.

I think on the sheer weight of longevity and performance, Kumble is the 2nd best leggie in the modern era. It's hard to lean on "what could have been" in such cases.

I also question Kumble's stature as a true leggie. He didn't spin it big barring the odd match on a turner. However, he's a leggie technically and that's what we have to go with.

From what we saw of Macgill, he was good but had flaws.

He struggled in WI and SL but did well in PAK, AUS and BANG. Never got to play anywhere else because of Warne.

Many PPers simply take Macgill's average and extrapolate his greatness. Some have even argued that he was as good as Warne. He was a big spinner, but not in same class.

One one data point - MacGill played 25 tests against non-minnows without Warne and averaged 37 in those 25 tests. He did very well when he was playing alongside Warne. Reason is simple. Aus would play 2 spinners when pitches was very friendly for playing 2nd spinner. It was not a norm for Aus to play 2 spinners.

 

[JaDed]

Jumbo ,the fighter from our team.

 

[JoniInsafian]

Kumble - if you consider him as a leg spinner ie.

Many people dont though

Kumble with home umpires.... In front of neutral umpires, Yasir Shah is miles better...

 

[backfootpunch]

Many PPers simply take Macgill's average and extrapolate his greatness. Some have even argued that he was as good as Warne. He was a big spinner, but not in same class.

One one data point - MacGill played 25 tests against non-minnows without Warne and averaged 37 in those 25 tests. He did very well when he was playing alongside Warne. Reason is simple. Aus would play 2 spinners when pitches was very friendly for playing 2nd spinner. It was not a norm for Aus to play 2 spinners.

What about that year where Warne was banned for a year after failing a drug test? MacGill was amazing in Warne's absence.

 

[Buffet]

What about that year where Warne was banned for a year after failing a drug test? MacGill was amazing in Warne's absence.

25 tests is total number of tests when MacGill played without Warne. He did fine in some, but over all he was pretty ordinary when he played without Warne.

 

[Bubby]

i agree but what made macgill better than yasir?

my only problem with yasir is that when the batsmen attack him he often looks lost

McGill was much fitter for starter and had more variety, also had good control he was a much bigger turner of ball than yasir had a ferocious turning googly,him and Hogg had it not been for Warne would have been part of aussie setup.

 

[Bubby]

Kumble with home umpires.... In front of neutral umpires, Yasir Shah is miles better...

By that logic Pakistani legends like Imran, Wasim and Waqar, without Shakur Rana and khijr hayaat would have been ordinary, it is very unfortunate to demean someone with so many wickets especially a person who has been a biggest match winner for India, and gave every ounce of his body to cricket how many cricketers u see playing with broken jaw.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kumble with home umpires.... In front of neutral umpires, Yasir Shah is miles better...

Any idea about Shakoor Rana and company?

 

[JoniInsafian]

By that logic Pakistani legends like Imran, Wasim and Waqar, without Shakur Rana and khijr hayaat would have been ordinary, it is very unfortunate to demean someone with so many wickets especially a person who has been a biggest match winner for India, and gave every ounce of his body to cricket how many cricketers u see playing with broken jaw.

Did Wasim’s average drop 10 point s in front of neutral umpires?

Playing with broken jaw doesn’t give talent... Kumble’s career doesn’t have much in it... He’s like the indian james Anderson... But worse because he averages 10 points better at home in front of home umpires than neutral... Also Anderson comes from a country with some competition while Kumble comes from a country that has’t produced a single bowling great... So obviously taking lots of wickets isn’t exactly a great achievement...

Ashwin is already much better in my book... Much better average, no home umpire cheating and already 250 wicker’s

 

[JoniInsafian]

Also Waqar played in front of neutral umpires only... And Imran and Wasim still ripped teams away’ from home and’ in front of home neutral umpires... So no comparison with Kumble who averages 19 at home, :35 away, 16 in front of home umpires, 35 neutral... Joke of a comparison by biased Indians

 

[JoniInsafian]

Only Indians will compare a player with 29 average to Wasim Waqar Imran.... This is like comparing Asad Shafiq to Tendulkar

 

[Lonewarrior]

@ OP, bhai tu kuo har pakistani current player ko compare kar raha hay ?
why dont make a thread on kumble vs mcgall ?
or Ishant vs Malinga ?

I know what are you trying to do here...

 

[Bubby]

Did Wasim’s average drop 10 point s in front of neutral umpires?

Playing with broken jaw doesn’t give talent... Kumble’s career doesn’t have much in it... He’s like the indian james Anderson... But worse because he averages 10 points better at home in front of home umpires than neutral... Also Anderson comes from a country with some competition while Kumble comes from a country that has’t produced a single bowling great... So obviously taking lots of wickets isn’t exactly a great achievement...

Ashwin is already much better in my book... Much better average, no home umpire cheating and already 250 wicker’s

You have to be extremely bias to say someone is not talented, when clearly picking 600 wickets is extremely difficult, how many spinners have done it and beside kumbles Forte is not big turn but subtle variations and impeccable line and length, one can call him spin version of McGrath, and one can also argue that until the cameras weren't there they had considerable advantage of ball tempering, I know he took 10 wickets in an innings against u, may be that is why u can't get over it.

 

[Bubby]

Only Indians will compare a player with 29 average to Wasim Waqar Imran.... This is like comparing Asad Shafiq to Tendulkar

And I am not comparing Kumble to Wasim and Imran, I was merely giving an example, as u said Kumble with home umpire, I replied Wasim and Imran with ur umpires and then I brought ball tampering into discussion

 

[Bubby]

Kumble is very underrated at PP.

People always talk about Qadir, Warne or Mushi but exclude him. He had his limitations but the fact is he's got 600+ test scalps.

Tell that to op who thinks Kumble career doesn't have much in it.

 

[JoniInsafian]

You have to be extremely bias to say someone is not talented, when clearly picking 600 wickets is extremely difficult, how many spinners have done it and beside kumbles Forte is not big turn but subtle variations and impeccable line and length, one can call him spin version of McGrath, and one can also argue that until the cameras weren't there they had considerable advantage of ball tempering, I know he took 10 wickets in an innings against u, may be that is why u can't get over it.

As usual Indians talking about number of wickets Even a donkey could take 500 test wickets if he has no competition.... This is why I compared Kumble to Anderson.... Just like Anderson isn't an atg fast bowler, kumble isn't an atg spinner...

Even with those 10 wickets he still has mediocre averages so I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over it... In fact they prove my point, that he had no competition... No way Warne would have ever taken 10 wickets in an inning.

 

[JoniInsafian]

And I am not comparing Kumble to Wasim and Imran, I was merely giving an example, as u said Kumble with home umpire, I replied Wasim and Imran with ur umpires and then I brought ball tampering into discussion

Yeah and they performed when they didn't have home umpires and when they were away from home so obviously they didn't depend on it like Kumble...

As for ball tampering, everybody did it, it was a part of the game... And an important one when you look at how bowlers get trashed today and 350 becomes par score..

 

[Bubby]

Yeah and they performed when they didn't have home umpires and when they were away from home so obviously they didn't depend on it like Kumble...

As for ball tampering, everybody did it, it was a part of the game... And an important one when you look at how bowlers get trashed today and 350 becomes par score..

Nah, nobody did it to an extent u guys did it, it wasn't part of game is beamer part of game technically yes but it's illegal, similarly tempering is part of game, but it's illegal and by the way Kumble is a spinner and you can't expect Kumble to perform on pace friendly pitches, he was a finger spinner, not a freak like Warne and murli who had magic wrists

 

[JoniInsafian]

Nah, nobody did it to an extent u guys did it, it wasn't part of game is beamer part of game technically yes but it's illegal, similarly tempering is part of game, but it's illegal and by the way Kumble is a spinner and you can't expect Kumble to perform on pace friendly pitches, he was a finger spinner, not a freak like Warne and murli who had magic wrists

I don’t see any problem with beaters either it’s a skill...

Doesn’t explain why he averaged 10 points better in front of home umpires than neutral umpires... And people like Swann also performed on pace friendly pitches... Kumble just didn’t have the talent for it... The one eyed man is king among the blind kind of bowler

 

[giri26]

People talking bad about Kumble, in spite of all his limitation, he still won us a test series in Pakistan, West Indies (Not the current team, that was a team with Lara, Sarwan, Chanders, Gayle and Samuels in 2006) and played a huge part in India drawing the test series in England in 2002. He also bowled brilliantly in Australia in his last couple of tours after having horror time in 1999/00 series. In his last 7 tests in Australia he picked up 44 wickers at an average of 32 with 4 5 wicket hauls and 1 ten wicket hauls (Much better than majority of the sub-continent spinners in that country). He was instrumental in India drawing 2004 series against a all-star batting line up picking 24 wickets.

You can mock all you want, but the guy maximised his talent and delivered more than many over-rated subcontinent spinners outside subcontinent. He just did not have the support he needed. He wasn't as good as Warne and Murali but did good for India. I don't mind Yasir being called as the next Warne or the greatest spinner since cricket was invented but that doesn't mean you need to put down a great achiever and a legend of the game who has achieved more than any spinner from Pakistan in the last 20 years. People talk as if 600 wickets is easy to get, but here is a fact, no Pakistan bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Kaneria and he hasn't been playing for Pakistan since 2010. Yasir might be the first to get there. No Pakistan Pace bowler has 200 test wickets since the legendary, Wasim, Waqar and Imran. No, the competition excuse doesn't fly as Australian bowlers McGrath and Warne played along side and one ended with 563 wickets and the other with 700. Even Gillespie who did not play much got 250 test wickets and Stuart McGill got 200 test wickets. So yes even with other great bowlers in the side it is possible to get 200+ wickets and it is not easy to get 600 wickets. You need Longevity and consistency to last 130 tests and pick that many wickets which Pakistan bowlers haven't done in the last 15 years.

 

[Bilal7]

Yasir Shah is the best leggie since Warne.

 

[Bubby]

On topic if you consider on purely wrist spinning term than yes, indeed he is the best leg spinner, however pak team should use him wisely and not overburden him, also he needs to cut on all the carbs for God sake, he looks heavy, won't do him any good, I mean Malik looks more fitter than most youngsters, need to work on fitness.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stay on topic.

 

[Savak]

Kumble is severely under rated. On rank turners he would take an aggressive role, on non supportive pitches he would keep things tight and pitch in with the odd wicket, on foreign pitches he would play a holding role and keep things tight for the pacers.

 

[jeetu]

Since 90's
[table= class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]145 [/td][td]708 [/td][td]25.41 [/td][td]57.4 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCG MacGill (AUS) [/td][td]44 [/td][td]208 [/td][td]29.02 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah (PAK) [/td][td]27 [/td][td]157 [/td][td]29.47 [/td][td]56.4 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble (INDIA) [/td][td]132 [/td][td]619 [/td][td]29.65 [/td][td]65.9 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) [/td][td]52 [/td][td]185 [/td][td]32.97 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria (PAK) [/td][td]61 [/td][td]261 [/td][td]34.79 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Mishra (INDIA) [/td][td]22 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]35.72 [/td][td]67.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PA Strang (ZIM) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]36.02 [/td][td]81.7 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Bishoo (WI) [/td][td]26 [/td][td]89 [/td][td]37.46 [/td][td]69.9 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imran Tahir (SA) [/td][td]20 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]40.24 [/td][td]68.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]


kumble was a great bowler but had his own bowling style and skill set. probably the only spin-slow bowler-medium pacer hybrid in history

Derek Underwood. 297 test wickets, would have been more had he not got himself banned. Averaged 25 at home and 27 away. He was more of a slow-medium offie, thogh as I remember Kumble only turned it one way.

 

[imshally81]

Kumble - if you consider him as a leg spinner ie.

Many people dont though

Kumble who ??

Even Afridi is better than him with the almost same action & limitation

 

[Slog]

Kumble who ??

Even Afridi is better than him with the almost same action & limitation

that is not true and you know it

or maybe youre in troll mode

 

[Convict]

Derek Underwood. 297 test wickets, would have been more had he not got himself banned. Averaged 25 at home and 27 away. He was more of a slow-medium offie, thogh as I remember Kumble only turned it one way.

Bill O'Reilly was also apparently quite quick.

 

[jeetu]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]
kumble was a great bowler but had his own bowling style and skill set. probably the only spin-slow bowler-medium pacer hybrid in history

Chranndra fits similar scenario.
[utube]nACB9-QOfz0[/utube]

 

[ManFan]

I don't think Stuart was as effective for Australia in tests as Yasir is for Pakistan. If you take out Yasir from this side, half of it's bowling venom is gone.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Kumble just had a longevity factor.

He was an ATG in India. An away average of 36 (includes other venues in Asia) is a very poor record.

 

[Monsee]

Lol at Kumble being the 2nd best.

First of all he was a medium pacer in the disguise of a spinner.

Second, he barely spun the ball.

Third, he averages in high 30s outside India.

I will take MacGill. He was an actual leg spinner who would have been an ATG, had he played for any other country.

Indians ko koi mauqa chaihyaay Pak player ko down kernaay ka, in-swing mystery trundler ko leg spinner kehnaay do; aap keh paisaay to nahin khurch ho rahaay, kehnaay do inhain?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I don't think Stuart was as effective for Australia in tests as Yasir is for Pakistan. If you take out Yasir from this side, half of it's bowling venom is gone.

More like 85% mate.....

 

[Rudi hater]

MacGill would often dish out couple of loosners each over. He was no where near with likes of Warne and Mushtaq. He only had leg break no other tools.

 

[MenInG]

Former Australian star cricketer Stuart MacGill was abducted and released in an alleged kidnapping in Sydney last month, police say.

Four people have been arrested in connection with the incident which took place on 14 April.

Police said MacGill knew one of the men and the plot had been financially motivated.

He sustained minor injuries in the incident but didn't require medical care, police said.

MacGill, 50, was a test spinner for the national team between 1998 and 2008.

At one point, he was ranked the world's second-best bowler behind his teammate Shane Warne.

'Dragged into a car and assaulted'
New South Wales Police said the arrests, which took place after raids were conducted across Sydney on Wednesday, were the result of a two-week long investigation.

Police allege MacGill had been approached and confronted in the Sydney suburb of Cremorne one evening by a 46-year-old man he knew.

Two other men then appeared and the group forced the ex-cricketer into a car.

He was driven to a remote site in Bringelly, on the city's outskirts, where he was allegedly assaulted and threatened at gunpoint by the "criminal gang", police said.

After about an hour, he was driven to the south-west suburb of Belmore and released, police said.

Authorities said no money was handed over or obtained in the course of the attack, but the kidnapping attempt had been financially motivated.

Police said MacGill reported the crime to authorities one week after it occurred, and that he had been worried about his and his family's safety.

"To be standing on a street, to be dragged into a car, driven a remote location, physically assaulted, threatened with a firearm, held for a period of time and then dumped, I think you would be pretty worried," said detective Anthony Holton.

"I know it is only an hour that he was held, but it would have been a horribly frightful hour to endure through," he added.

He said MacGill's ordeal was "not involved in any back story that leads to him having a personal debt to other people," and that he was solely being treated as a "victim of a targeted kidnapping".

Police said the arrested group members - aged 27, 29, 42 and 46 - would be charged later on Wednesday.

Australian media reported MacGill, who retired from cricket in 2008, works as the general manager of a restaurant in Sydney's northern suburbs.

MacGill is yet to provide public comment on the incident.

BBC

 

[MenInG]

Australian police on Wednesday arrested four men in connection with the armed kidnapping of former Test bowler Stuart MacGill. The men were detained in a pre-dawn raid in Sydney, following the kidnapping of the cricketer in the city's affluent Lower North Shore last month. MacGill was lauded as a talented bowler and played 44 Tests for Australia, but was unlucky that his career coincided with that of Shane Warne, ranked by many as the best spin bowler of all time.

Police said that on April 14 the 50-year-old MacGill was confronted by three men at an intersection and bundled into a vehicle.

He was driven to a property an hour out of the city where he was allegedly assaulted and threatened with a firearm before being released after the hour-long ordeal.

"I know it was only an hour that he was held but it would have been a horribly frightful hour to endure," NSW Police superintendent Anthony Holton told media.

MacGill, who knew one of his alleged kidnappers, was "still quite shaken" by the incident, Holton said.

After "extensive investigations" a police strike force and riot officers arrested four men aged 27, 29, 42 and 46, in the early hours of Wednesday.

Although no ransom was paid police believe the kidnapping was financially motivated.

The four men were in the process of being charged and were expected to appear in court later on Wednesday.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/for...t-macgill-kidnapped-4-arrested-police-2428122

 

[MenInG]

The brother of Stuart MacGill's girlfriend Maria O'Meagher was allegedly a part of the abduction of the former Australia leg-spinner, as per latest media reports. On Wednesday, NSW Police arrested four men including Marino Sotiropoulos -- brother of Maria. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Maria at first said her relationship with MacGill was over before saying she was not "close" to Sotiropoulos. "Stuart and I are still together," she said of her relationship with MacGill. "We are all still frightened...I no longer feel safe (and) I really do not understand what happened. "My brother and I led very different lives and although we were brothers and sisters, we weren't that close."

She told The Daily Telegraph that MacGill is safe and did not wish to talk further about the alleged kidnapping.

"Everyone's fine and everyone's well, but I'm not interested in talking about what happened. Stuart is safe and we are both OK. Unfortunately, I am caught in the middle of a horrible situation but all I can do is support Stu and my family. My elderly parents and children are really suffering and I am fearful for them. They are really in the dark about what happened," she said.

According to a report in Fox Cricket, the former cricketer was abducted at gunpoint from Cremorne after being confronted by a 46-year-old man about 8 pm on April 14. He was allegedly assaulted before being released after an hour in the Belmore area.

Police in a statement had earlier said: "Following extensive investigations, strike force detectives, with assistance from Raptor Squad and the Public Order and Riot Squad, arrested four men -- aged 27, 29, 42 and 46 -- from 6 am today (Wednesday 5 May 2021).

"The men were taken to local police stations where charges are expected to be laid. Officers are currently in the process of executing search warrants at homes at Sutherland, Caringbah, Brighton Le-Sands, Banksia and Marrickville."

Making his debut in 1998, MacGill played 44 Test matches and three ODIs for Australia before announcing his retirement from international cricket in 2008. He finished with 208 Test wickets and six wickets in ODIs. The 50-year-old didn't return to the game until 2011 when he played in the Big Bash League for Sydney Sixers.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/bro...of-ex-australian-cricketers-abduction-2437198

 

[TheNeutralist]

Kumble just had a longevity factor.

He was an ATG in India. An away average of 36 (includes other venues in Asia) is a very poor record.

I am curious to know Shane Warne's average in India, is that great. By that logic he should not even be considered as best.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Since 90's
[table= class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]145 [/td][td]708 [/td][td]25.41 [/td][td]57.4 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCG MacGill (AUS) [/td][td]44 [/td][td]208 [/td][td]29.02 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah (PAK) [/td][td]27 [/td][td]157 [/td][td]29.47 [/td][td]56.4 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble (INDIA) [/td][td]132 [/td][td]619 [/td][td]29.65 [/td][td]65.9 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) [/td][td]52 [/td][td]185 [/td][td]32.97 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria (PAK) [/td][td]61 [/td][td]261 [/td][td]34.79 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Mishra (INDIA) [/td][td]22 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]35.72 [/td][td]67.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PA Strang (ZIM) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]36.02 [/td][td]81.7 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Bishoo (WI) [/td][td]26 [/td][td]89 [/td][td]37.46 [/td][td]69.9 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imran Tahir (SA) [/td][td]20 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]40.24 [/td][td]68.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

People (especially Indians) get emotional very fast

Anyways, look at wickets column, even if Kumble was a pacer disguised as a leggie the man has 619 test wickets with whopping 8* ten-fers. He did something very right for so many years to get this many wickets. Credit where it's due.

Also see the SR of MacGill and Yasir. Both are match-winners on their day.

(*one of those 10fers should be appointed to that desh-bakht Indian umpire ) #peace

 

[MenInG]

Former Australia spinner Stuart MacGill has said his alleged kidnapping and assault has taken a major toll on his family.

Four people, including the brother of MacGill's partner Maria O'Meagher, have been charged over the incident, which took place on 14 April.

Police say they are searching for three other men believed to be involved.

"It's hurt my family, and I know that a lot of people don't really know what's going on," MacGill, 50, said.

Referring to himself and his partner, he added: "But I can put both of us in the same boat too. We don't know what's going on."

MacGill spoke publicly about his alleged ordeal for the first time on the day that police released security camera footage of two men they want to question in relation to the incident.

Police said MacGill had introduced his partner's brother to a reputed drug dealer, known to authorities as "Sonny", before his alleged abduction.

MacGill, who worked as a manager at a Sydney restaurant owned by his partner, said they introduced people "all the time" through work.

MacGill waited five days to report the incident but police said he was "purely" a victim.

The former spin bowler has since told Channel Nine he "wasn't thinking particularly clearly in those first couple of days".

"I know that I have done nothing wrong, Maria has done nothing wrong," the former cricketer told Australian broadcaster Channel Nine.

"If people choose to think something contrary to what's been presented by both myself and the police, then that's up to them."

MacGill, a Test spinner for Australia between 1998 and 2008, sustained minor injuries in the alleged incident but did not require medical care, police said following arrests made in May.

What do police say happened?

Police allege MacGill had been approached and confronted in the Sydney suburb of Cremorne one evening by a 46-year-old man he knew.

Two other men then appeared and the group forced the ex-cricketer into a car.

He was driven to a remote site in Bringelly, on the city's outskirts, where he was allegedly assaulted and threatened at gunpoint by the "criminal gang", police said.

After about an hour, he was driven to the south-west suburb of Belmore and released.

Authorities said no money was handed over or obtained in the course of the attack, but the kidnapping attempt had been financially motivated.

BBC

 

[MenInG]

One of the men accused of kidnapping Stuart MacGill from outside his Sydney north shore home has been released on bail as the cricket’s great’s desperate texts were revealed in court.

Fresh details about the case were aired in the NSW Supreme Court on Wednesday as Marino Sotiropoulos was granted bail.

Mr Sotiropoulos will live under house arrest with his parents in southern Sydney before his faces a lengthy trial with his co-accused in 2023.

Mr Sotiropoulos, who is the brother of Mr MacGill’s partner Maria O’Meagher, has denied that he was involved in kidnapping the Test spinner from outside his Cremorne home in April.

The 47-year-old is facing a maximum possible sentence of life imprisonment if found guilty of the most serious charge of supplying a large commercial quantity of a prohibited drug.

The court heard that Mr MacGill became embroiled in the affair after making an introduction between Mr Sotiropoulos and a mysterious cocaine dealer known only as “Sonny”.

The crown has alleged that there was a deal for Sonny to be supplied with two kilograms of cocaine for $660,000.

The two parties arranged for a “dead drop” - where the drugs would be left at one location and the money at another in an effort to avoid police detection.

However, the court heard “Sonny” took the drugs and used fake money to carry out the transaction.

Mr MacGill was allegedly taken to a Bringelly property in Sydney’s southwest where he was assaulted, threatened with a gun and demands were made for money.

He was held for an hour before being driven to Belmore, in southwestern Sydney, where he was released.

Six men have been arrested over the alleged plot, including Mr Sotiropoulos, who is the brother of Mr MacGill’s partner Maria O’Meagher.

Police have said that Mr MacGill was not involved in any illegal activity and that he was “purely” a victim.

It’s alleged that “Sonny” disappeared before Mr Sotiropoulos and a group of men allegedly pressured Mr MacGill to secure payment for the alleged drug deal-gone-wrong.

Mr Sotiropoulos has also been charged with take/detain in company with intent to get advantage occasioning actual bodily harm and participating in a criminal group.

Mr Sotiropoulos’ barrister Ian Lloyd on Wednesday told the court that his client was not involved in the kidnapping, pointing to text messages sent by Mr MacGill to a friend five days after he was allegedly abducted.

“Please meet Marino. I’m in real deep s***. He’ll fit you in. I can’t leave the phone in case they find me,” the text message said.

Another message read: “I can’t have the phone for long but Marino will explain everything. Please, I need help.”

Mr Lloyd also attacked the strength of the crown case in relation to the drug supply charges, arguing that he played a minor role in the alleged transaction as a “spotter” and was only set to earn $3000.

He said it wasn’t even known if any drugs were handed over.

Crown prosecutor Anthony Brookman opposed bail on the basis that he was a risk of interfering with witnesses.

While Mr Brookman said it was not alleged that Mr Sotiropoulos was at the Bringelly property while Mr MacGill was being held captive, it would be argued that he played a crucial role.

“It may be a circumstantial case in relation to the kidnapping, it is not alleged that the applicant (Mr Sotiropoulos) went with the kidnappers to the shed at the rural property,” Mr Brookman said.

“But what’s clear from the applicant’s behaviour and conduct prior and after, at all material times, he was concerned with the recovery of the money.

“He’s present on the street when (the alleged kidnappers) abduct the complainant.

“That’s the crown case - he causes the complainant to meet him on the street and then introduce him to the people that kidnap him.”

However, Justice Cavanagh agreed to release Mr Sotiropoulos on strict bail conditions including that he not leave home without his parents to attend medical, legal or court appointments.

He will also be required to provide a $100,000 surety, report to police daily and not consume drugs or alcohol.

Mr Sotiropoulos will also be barred from crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge or approaching Mr MacGill.

He is expected to face a four-to-six week trial alongside his co-accused sometime in 2023.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/crick...t/news-story/f15bbeafd649204cb8e0e539c06b3cb2

 

[jeetu]

Updating the stats since last one was made in 2017

Legspinner Overall record since 90's
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]145 [/td][td]708 [/td][td]25.41 [/td][td]2.65 [/td][td]57.4 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCG MacGill (AUS) [/td][td]1998-2008 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]208 [/td][td]29.02 [/td][td]3.22 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble (INDIA) [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]132 [/td][td]619 [/td][td]29.65 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]65.9 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah (PAK) [/td][td]2014-2021 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]235 [/td][td]31.08 [/td][td]3.2 [/td][td]58.2 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) [/td][td]1990-2003 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]185 [/td][td]32.97 [/td][td]2.92 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria (PAK) [/td][td]2000-2010 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]261 [/td][td]34.79 [/td][td]3.07 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Bishoo (WI) [/td][td]2011-2018 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]117 [/td][td]37.17 [/td][td]3.23 [/td][td]68.9 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Legspinner Away record since 90's
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]1992-2006 [/td][td]73 [/td][td]362 [/td][td]25.5 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]56.7 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCG MacGill (AUS) [/td][td]1998-2008 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]73 [/td][td]31.5 [/td][td]3.41 [/td][td]55.3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) [/td][td]1990-2001 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]31.97 [/td][td]2.87 [/td][td]66.6 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria (PAK) [/td][td]2002-2010 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]139 [/td][td]35.05 [/td][td]3.18 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble (INDIA) [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]35.85 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]74.5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Bishoo (WI) [/td][td]2011-2018 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]37.38 [/td][td]3.26 [/td][td]68.6 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah (PAK) [/td][td]2015-2021 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]105 [/td][td]37.58 [/td][td]3.49 [/td][td]64.5 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[OMB]

Just see - Not a single great leggie in the current era

 

[MenInG]

Former Australia spinner Stuart MacGill was involved in an incident last year where he was allegedly kidnapped. However, the alleged kidnappers -- two brothers -- have claimed that Macgill came to them willingly and was involved in the drug trade. As per Fox Sports, the brothers named Richard and Fredrick Schaaf alleged in court that MacGill had gone to the abandoned southwestern Sydney property willingly.

The police had previously said that MacGill was purely a victim and was not involved in any criminal activity.

The pair earlier this year pleaded not guilty to charges of detain in company and with the matter expected to go to a trial mid-next year, as per the report in foxsport.com.au.

Now, MacGill has broken his silence on the matter, and opened up about the experience.

"Unfortunately, that's the biggest problem for me because I have sort of feel like it has pretty much put a hold on everything for me. It is an ongoing police investigation; the investigation is pretty much done but the trial part will come up. It was not something you'd even like to happen to your worst enemy. Later in the day, it was getting quite dark, I was bundled into a car by three blokes. I didn't want to get into the car, I said to them twice, ‘I'm not getting in the car,' but then it became obvious that they were armed, and they said, ‘We know you're not involved, we just want to have a chat,' then they put me in the car and I was in the car for an hour and a half," MacGill told Adam Gilchrist on SEN WA Breakfast Podcast.

"I am from Perth originally so still I am not familiar with large parts of Sydney. It was the longest hour and a half of my life. I didn't know where we were, I didn't know where we were going and I was scared. From that point, they stripped me naked, beat me up, threatened me, and then just dumped me. That was over the course of maybe three hours out in the middle of nowhere in a little shed. I was scared, humiliated, I really did not know what was going to happen. They dropped me in Belmore, I did not know where I was, to be honest, I was just very lucky as I found a very helpful cab driver and he offered me to eat with his family. He was a very nice fellow," he added.

NDTV

 

[wrongun]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

thats why i excluded him

kumble was a great bowler but had his own bowling style and skill set. probably the only spin-slow bowler-medium pacer hybrid in history

if ppl consider him a leggie than obviously he is the best after warne but for the sake of this thread i have excluded him bcoz i personally don't consider him a "leg spinner" in the same mould as yasir,macgill,mushtaq,tahir,kaneria,mishra,rashid etc

Tiger O'Reilly was a medium pace leggie. It used to be less rare I think.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It goes something like

Warne

Daylight
Daylight
Daylight
Daylight
Daylight
Daylight

Mushtaq Ahmed for mine. His away record against top 8 sides trumps Kumble's, Macgill's and Yasir's.

If I wanted a spinner for a wearing Indian surfaces and longevity, Kumble. In OZ - Macgill. In UAE, SL - Yasir.

But if I wanted someone who could win me test matches on varied surfaces, I'd go to peak Mushtaq Ahmed.