Younis Khan vs Rahul Dravid in Tests

[James]

On the way out, take a look at the career of Javed Miandad and you will realise why you made yourself impossible to debate with here.

 

[cricketindiafan]

OK LC let me do the analysis for you

After 76 tests,
RD - In Asia- 41 tests, 3156 runs@50 with 7 100s,
YK- In Asia 50 tests, 4494 runs@58 with 17 100s,

RD- Outside Asia - 35 tests, 3398 runs@65 with 9 100s
YK- Outside Asia - 26 tests, 1904 runs@43 with 3 100s

Averages after 76 tests,

Overall
Opposition RD YK
Aus -57/32
Eng- 76/44
SA - 34/47
SL - 56/52
NZ - 59/61
WI-61/39
India - N.A/88
Pak - 24/N.A

Away Averages
Opposition RD/YK
Aus- 67/43
Eng -88/52
SA - 42/34
SL - 47/41
NZ - 65/65
WI - 64/23
India - -/77
Pak - 6/-

 

[Indiafan]

Mate, before this thread started we werent even willing to compare the two. Now we have atleast established the fact that they are atleast at the same caliber.

I dont think thats established at all. After almost 50 tests Hussey aveaged 70, does it mean he is almost on Par with Bradman? See post above also

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Dravid is better because he has maintained it for a longer period of time.

If we take your method into consideration
Kambli > Miandad.

Miandad avg = 52.57
Kambli avg = 55.40

Miandad avg in NZ: 77.33
Kambli avg in NZ: 14

Miandad avg in SL: 15.75
Kambli avg in SL: 83

Kambli has not played any more away series. Since Kambli overall avg is more Kambli>Miandad.

Just like someone said if politics had not interfered YK would be better player, I say if BCCI hadn't done injustice Kambli would be better than Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Dravid who are far better batsmen than any Pakistani batsmen ever.

NOTE: Do not argue with these people using logic. Use their own retarted logic to show one of their players in bad light.

 

[LegCutter]

On the way out, take a look at the career of Javed Miandad and you will realise why you made yourself impossible to debate with here.

Miandad didnt do so good against the West Indians at their peak, which I consider very disappointing for a man of his talent.

No doubt an absolute beast of a batsman but he had 16 test matches to prove himself against the best bowling attack of that time, but 2 centuries in 16 matches just doesnt cut it

 

[waqar goraya]

^
younis averages only 31 against australia

 

[Bullet Drive]

Dravid averaged 57 after the same amount of tests YK is on now.

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ And that average ballooned to 59.8 at one point.

Stats can take an epic beating in a matter of 15-20 tests and here we have 92 test difference. Ponting in 2007 averaged 59.9 in tests. What is he averaging now people? A long successful career will always be highly appreciated. YK may be a little unfortunate in missing out on a few tests but that's the way it is.



We have like 20 batsmen averaging above 50 right now. Statistically all are quite comparable but the big players have done it over a much longer period hence universally acknowledged.

 

[LegCutter]

OK LC let me do the analysis for you

After 76 tests,
RD - In Asia- 41 tests, 3156 runs@50 with 7 100s,
YK- In Asia 50 tests, 4494 runs@58 with 17 100s,

RD- Outside Asia - 35 tests, 3398 runs@65 with 9 100s
YK- Outside Asia - 26 tests, 1904 runs@43 with 3 100s

Averages after 76 tests,

Overall
Opposition RD YK
Aus -57/32
Eng- 76/44
SA - 34/47
SL - 56/52
NZ - 59/61
WI-61/39
India - N.A/88
Pak - 24/N.A

Away Averages
Opposition RD/YK
Aus- 67/43
Eng -88/52
SA - 42/34
SL - 47/41
NZ - 65/65
WI - 64/23
India - -/77
Pak - 6/-

Stats noted. Stats accepted. Using these numbers, we can accept that when Dravid had played 76 matches, ie the total number of matches Younis Khan has played, then Dravid's numbers were far greater than that of Younis Khan. It's only natural that the numbers went down as Dravid played on and on, but I guess that's understandable.

Good job mate, you've proved your point. Hats off

 

[Bullet Drive]

^ And that average ballooned to 59.8 at one point.

Stats can take an epic beating in a matter of 15-20 tests and here we have 92 test difference. Ponting in 2007 averaged 59.9 in tests. What is he averaging now people? A long successful career will always be highly appreciated. YK may be a little unfortunate in missing out on a few tests but that's the way it is.



We have like 20 batsmen averaging above 50 right now. Statistically all are quite comparable but the big players have done it over a much longer period hence universally acknowledged.

Exactly. It's a great achievement to average over 50 and YK is a high class test batsman but 76 tests is nothing compared to the greats of the game - Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar, Dravid & Kallis etc.

Maybe if Younis goes on to play 100 tests and averages 50+ then maybe its more of a comparison. Right now with only 76 tests it isn't much as who knows in these next 20 odd tests his average can decrease a lot. It could however improve too but we don't know therefore the comparison cannot be made.

By watching test cricket, me myself sees Dravid as the better batsman. That's without the stats etc. Dravid is an ATG too.

 

[Mobashir]

^ And that average ballooned to 59.8 at one point.

Stats can take an epic beating in a matter of 15-20 tests and here we have 92 test difference. Ponting in 2007 averaged 59.9 in tests. What is he averaging now people? A long successful career will always be highly appreciated. YK may be a little unfortunate in missing out on a few tests but that's the way it is.



We have like 20 batsmen averaging above 50 right now. Statistically all are quite comparable but the big players have done it over a much longer period hence universally acknowledged.

He was actually lucky to miss those matches, that were against top quality teams in hard batting conditions. That was very good for his average.

 

[waqar goraya]

^ And that average ballooned to 59.8 at one point.

Stats can take an epic beating in a matter of 15-20 tests and here we have 92 test difference. Ponting in 2007 averaged 59.9 in tests. What is he averaging now people? A long successful career will always be highly appreciated. YK may be a little unfortunate in missing out on a few tests but that's the way it is.



We have like 20 batsmen averaging above 50 right now. Statistically all are quite comparable but the big players have done it over a much longer period hence universally acknowledged.

no fortunate for his stats and unfortunate for his cash...he missed australia in australia,australia in england,england in england and windies in windies...
in all these series batting was miserable and tough

 

[Pete Rose]

the stats be damned to be honest.
I saw Dravid while the others wilted in England last year.
YK is great for Pakistan, but since he has missed the most important two series for Pakistan in recent years (Australia and England in 2009/2010) he does not come close......at all.
I really do think there is a class of batsman who will end up with respectable averages but their impact on the game against tough opposition will not be remembered:
- yk, jayawardne, sangakara (perhaps i am too harsh), shivnarine chanerpal

 

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Nothing against YK though, he's a top batsman and a wonderful human being, but Dravid wins it.

 

[Lethalweapon]

Check Dravid's avg. in SA from 2001 (Sehwag's debut , he got a ton in SA), It is worse then Sehwag. What is Dravid's avg. in SL? and even in Aus? why is that not comparable to Sehwg who avg. close to 50 in Aus?
Dravid's expoits in Eng and WI have hidden his pathetic record in those countries.
Dravid faced easy bowling at his peak in that aus tour 2003 which is an aberration imo, he faced bichel,brad williams and bracken in tests. he sucked against Mcgrath and co. 6 months later. Sehwag was the one who got a 155 against that attack and looked way better.Dravid's failures in 99 in aus.2001 in SL are never mentioned, SRT missed quite a few of those tests and Dravid got exposed in my eyes.
I credit Agarkar for that Adelaide win in 2003, that match would be a draw without that 6fer.
from 2001-2007 , Dravid with his SUPER TECHNIQUE was a failure in many 4th innings chases.
chases , vs Eng in India at Wankede, Bangalore 2005 vs Pak, MANY INNINGS IN SA ,SL and AUS.
An out of form SRT gets crucified but an an inform Dravid's failures goes scot-free!! why such double standards? because Dravid was not popular?

I only rate his ininngs in Jamaica in 2006 and Rawalpindi 2004, both attacks ironically were 'weakened' by injuries,.

Younis>>>>Dravid , based on whatever I have seen last decade, I have seen a LOT.

 

[Lethalweapon]

the stats be damned to be honest.
I saw dravid while the others wilted in england last year.
Yk is great for pakistan, but since he has missed the most important two series for pakistan in recent years (australia and england in 2009/2010) he does not come close......at all.
I really do think there is a class of batsman who will end up with respectable averages but their impact on the game against tough opposition will not be remembered:
- yk, jayawardne, sangakara (perhaps i am too harsh), shivnarine chanerpal

what about dravid failing in 'all 2nd innings' of the 4 tests?

 

[LegCutter]

Check Dravid's avg. in SA from 2001 (Sehwag's debut , he got a ton in SA), It is worse then Sehwag. What is Dravid's avg. in SL? and even in Aus? why is that not comparable to Sehwg who avg. close to 50 in Aus?
Dravid's expoits in Eng and WI have hidden his pathetic record in those countries.
Dravid faced easy bowling at his peak in that aus tour 2003 which is an aberration imo, he faced bichel,brad williams and bracken in tests. he sucked against Mcgrath and co. 6 months later. Sehwag was the one who got a 155 against that attack and looked way better.Dravid's failures in 99 in aus.2001 in SL are never mentioned, SRT missed quite a few of those tests and Dravid got exposed in my eyes.
I credit Agarkar for that Adelaide win in 2003, that match would be a draw without that 6fer.
from 2001-2007 , Dravid with his SUPER TECHNIQUE was a failure in many 4th innings chases.
chases , vs Eng in India at Wankede, Bangalore 2005 vs Pak, MANY INNINGS IN SA ,SL and AUS.
An out of form SRT gets crucified but an an inform Dravid's failures goes scot-free!! why such double standards? because Dravid was not popular?

I only rate his ininngs in Jamaica in 2006 and Rawalpindi 2004, both attacks ironically were 'weakened' by injuries,.

Younis>>>>Dravid , based on whatever I have seen last decade, I have seen a LOT.

Ok first things first, do you rate Sehwag higher than Dravid? Note that I'm not trying to be condescending at all, i'm just trying to clarify what you were trying to say in the first half of your post, it seems you rate Sehwag higher than Dravid as a test batsman.

 

[ethan hunt]

Nothing against YK though, he's a top batsman and a wonderful human being, but Dravid wins it.

lol, you label inzi an average player based on his averages away from home , yet when it comes to these two you refuse to apply the same principal.
hilarious to see fans of sachin being stumped by the very same stats , the irony ,typical delusiona indian fans who are mentally traumatised by decades of supporting mediocrity i-e the indian cricket team , shameless bunch..

as for the OP huge fan of both , classy players , keeping their stats aside personally i feel dravid is/was a better bat , younis`s legacy will be properly established when he retires from test cricket .

 

[umarakmalrocks]

lol, you label inzi an average player based on his averages away from home , yet when it comes to these two you refuse to apply the same principal.
hilarious to see fans of sachin being stumped by the very same stats , the irony ,typical delusiona indian fans who are mentally traumatised by decades of supporting mediocrity i-e the indian cricket team , shameless bunch..

as for the OP huge fan of both , classy players , keeping their stats aside personally i feel dravid is/was a better bat , younis`s legacy will be properly established when he retires from test cricket .

uh dravid has a better avg away from home compared to both inzy/younis.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Anyone fancy compiling a list of YK's 10 best test innings?

Where he has succeeded in difficult conditions or where he wins/saves a test single handedly etc.

 

[LegCutter]

uh dravid has a better avg away from home compared to both inzy/younis.

Your post implies that Dravid has maintained a higher average inspite of his longetivity. That's not true.

In the above posts we've established that Dravid had a higher average when he was at the same stage as YK is now (76 tests), but his stats went down as time progressed, so at this current moment in time, YK has higher averages in all countries except England.

It is safe to assume though that if YK had played the same number of tests that Dravid has, then YK's stats would have gone down too, so Dravid does win this one, but your post was wrong. Just saying.

 

[LegCutter]

Anyone fancy compiling a list of YK's 10 best test innings?

Where he has succeeded in difficult conditions or where he wins/saves a test single handedly etc.

Match saving 313 vs Sri Lanka
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/388993.html

Matchwinning 267 and 84* against India negating a Sehwag double-ton
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64127.html

Mathsaving 194 against India, saved with only 2 wickets left
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/233797.html

Matchwinning 149 vs New Zealand
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63922.html

Mathsaving 139* vs South Africa
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/461571.html

Mathsaving 130 vs South Africa
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/299005.html

 

[CricketTruth]

Memories are relative, numbers are factual.

By the same train of thought, I have been watching the game for 15+ years and I would love to say that MoYo is the greatest batman I've had the pleasure of viewing, but I know better; inspite of MoYo's +50 average, he has failed in South Africa, India and Australia; and as such, MoYo falls a class short of Dravid inspite of what my memories tell me.

On the other hand, Younis Khan is the best test batsman Pakistan has ever produced, better than MoYo and Inzi, a fact that not many will ever realize due to MoYo's inflated stats in the subcontinent.

You say, selective analysis? There is nothing selective here. The only thing selective here is your limited train of thought and your failure to come out of your comfort zone and to accept that your hypothetical memories will not always correlate with the actual facts at hand.

Younis Khan has performed all around the world, on the same scale as Viv Richards and Dravid.

Inzi hasnt, MoYo hasnt; Younis Khan has. Deal with it.

Good post...as you said one cannot rely on memories to judge players ahead of facts, because no one has watched every test, and everyone has their own biases. When players that we like do well we tend to remember those performances, and players that we don't like do well we tend to forget those performances or dismiss as luck. The media also has a big part in controlling who people think are good players.

Dravid is ahead but it's not a stupid comparison.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Your post implies that Dravid has maintained a higher average inspite of his longetivity. That's not true.

In the above posts we've established that Dravid had a higher average when he was at the same stage as YK is now (76 tests), but his stats went down as time progressed, so at this current moment in time, YK has higher averages in all countries except England.

It is safe to assume though that if YK had played the same number of tests that Dravid has, then YK's stats would have gone down too, so Dravid does win this one, but your post was wrong. Just saying.

Dravid still has better away avg than YK. Plus higher avgs in WI and Pak too (compared to YK in India). Plus YK has played so less games in England and Oz those avgs can't be taken seriously. If you consider one series guys Venky Prasad has better bowling avg than Wasim/Waqar in England and dinesh Karthik is best away batsman to have played in SA.

Like some posters above have said, him not playing in 2010 Oz/Eng series was actually advantageous to his avg.

 

[LegCutter]

Dravid still has better away avg than YK. Plus higher avgs in WI and Pak too (compared to YK in India). Plus YK has played so less games in England and Oz those avgs can't be taken seriously. If you consider one series guys Venky Prasad has better bowling avg than Wasim/Waqar in England and dinesh Karthik is best away batsman to have played in SA.

Like some posters above have said, him not playing in 2010 Oz/Eng series was actually advantageous to his avg.

I repeat; you're wrong, even after you take out Australia.

In Australia

YK: 43
Dravid: 41

In Saffrica

YK: 33
Dravid: 29

In England

YK: 52
Dravid: 70

In Sri Lanka

YK: 40
Dravid: 33

In New Zealand

YK: 65
Dravid: 63

I've already accepted that had YK played as many matches his average would have gone down as well, but at this moment in time YK's averages are higher.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

I repeat; you're wrong, even after you take out Australia.

In Australia

YK: 43.16
Dravid: 41.64

In Saffrica

YK: 33.88
Dravid: 29.71

In England

YK: 52.22
Dravid: 68.80

In Sri Lanka

YK: 38
Dravid: 33.10

In New Zealand

YK: 65.28
Dravid: 63.83

I've already accepted that had YK played as many matches his average would have gone down as well, but at this moment in time YK's averages are higher.

There is a country called West Indies and Pakistan too you know.

In West Indies:

YK: 23.44
Dravid: 65.69

In each other's country:

YK: 76.80
RD: 78.57

Also check out the differences. Where YK is better he's slightly better. Where RD is better there's a massive difference. (Eng and WI). So if you see overall away avg RD still trumps YK even now with RD's decline considered.

 

[Spiderguy252]

Dravid's average in WI is even better than in England!

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Dravid's average in WI is even better than in England!

Was great in 2006 series. Was pretty good last year too. Made a century in difficult conditions.

 

[speed]

not really a comparison india best batsman v Pakistan prolly 4th best.

 

[speed]

yk has a big chance too prove his critics wrong in the 2013 series v sa and wi. lets see how he does there also this tour v sl.

 

[LegCutter]

Dravid's average in WI is even better than in England!

Dravid played 16 matches against the West Indies of post-Holding era ie post 2002. I dont want to use those stats, but if that is the stat you want to use to prove your case, then go ahead.

 

[speed]

imo dravid is the best indian test batsman. check the stats

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Dravid played 16 matches against the West Indies of post-Holding era ie post 2002. I dont want to use those stats, but if that is the stat you want to use to prove your case, then go ahead.

1. WI were still decnt team till 2006. Lara, Chanders etc. If WI is a minnow why haven't you guys won a series there till yet.

2. even YK played matches there. Why does he avg in the 20s. And RD didn't play 16 post 2002. He played 7 post 2002.

Even in 1997 vs Walsh/Ambrose Rd avg 70. YK in 2000 against these two avgd 4.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

imo dravid is the best indian test batsman. check the stats

no he has bad records in sa and sl.

sachin and sunny have been good everywhere.
sachin lowest avg in any country is 40 in pak and sunny is 37 in sl.

but dravid is good too. in fact these three are the only batsmen from SC to avg 50+ outside sc.

 

[Pete Rose]

what about dravid failing in 'all 2nd innings' of the 4 tests?

what about it?
did he not get the runs in the first innings?

 

[umarakmalrocks]

yk has a big chance too prove his critics wrong in the 2013 series v sa and wi. lets see how he does there also this tour v sl.

true that. but he won't get to play another series against eng/oz though as they are in 2016/17 next by which time he will have retired.

 

[Spiderguy252]

Dravid played 16 matches against the West Indies of post-Holding era ie post 2002. I dont want to use those stats, but if that is the stat you want to use to prove your case, then go ahead.

Test cricket anywhere is still cricket. We've all noticed how hard it is to score in the Windies. Runs shouldn't be discounted imo, even if it's against moderate opposition.

 

[speed]

no he has bad records in sa and sl.

sachin and sunny have been good everywhere.
sachin lowest avg in any country is 40 in pak and sunny is 37 in sl.

but dravid is good too. in fact these three are the only batsmen from SC to avg 50+ outside sc.

he is the best indian batsman outside the sc

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Test cricket anywhere is still cricket. We've all noticed how hard it is to score in the Windies. Runs shouldn't be discounted imo, even if it's against moderate opposition.

like this guy has said yk was lucky he didn't get to play eng in eng, oz in oz, oz in eng, wi in wi. these were tough series where runs were hard to come by.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

he is the best indian batsman outside the sc

true that i guess.

here's best sc batsmen outside sc.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=batting

 

[LegCutter]

1. WI were still decnt team till 2006. Lara, Chanders etc. If WI is a minnow why haven't you guys won a series there till yet.

2. even YK played matches there. Why does he avg in the 20s. And RD didn't play 16 post 2002. He played 7 post 2002.

Even in 1997 vs Walsh/Ambrose Rd avg 70. YK in 2000 against these two avgd 4.

Oh come on, that was Younis Khan's debut test!

Anyway, point noted and regarded. Dravid's better in Windies, **** and England. YK's better in Lanka, Africa and NZ.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Oh come on, that was Younis Khan's debut test!

Anyway, point noted and regarded. Dravid's better in Windies, **** and England. YK's better in Lanka, Africa and NZ.

RD scored 95 on his debut.

On topic though yes I agree with your point. Also if you see the differences between the averages ones in which RD is better he's a lot better. Also he's played a lot of matches in all these countries. So if you just do an away average comparison RD still trumps YK considering RD's post 2006 form too.

 

[Saurav]

as much as I like Younis,it gotta be Dravid

 

[Pak_Lover]

as much as I like Younis,it gotta be Dravid

+1... Dravid is in different class .. To me he is the best indian batsman for the last 15 years , I found him better than SRT ( just my opinion).

 

[IndianWillow]

no he has bad records in sa and sl.

sachin and sunny have been good everywhere.
sachin lowest avg in any country is 40 in pak and sunny is 37 in sl.

but dravid is good too. in fact these three are the only batsmen from SC to avg 50+ outside sc.

Why dont' you compare Dravid's overseas averages in wins with other Indian players? It is not just a case of being good or bad, who scores most runs in won games away? That is the hallmark of a match winner.

 

[speed]

Why dont' you compare Dravid's overseas averages in wins with other Indian players? It is not just a case of being good or bad, who scores most runs in won games away? That is the hallmark of a match winner.

dravid only indian with 1000+ runs outside the sc in wins for india that's why i rank him as the best indian test batsman.

 

[LegCutter]

Younis Khan has a case to prove in Sri Lanka at the moment, at 34 he isnt going to be getting any younger. With 3 tests in Sri Lanka and a South Africa tour later, Younis Khan has to show whether he belongs with the greats or his stats got meaninglessly inflated due to a short career.

I have a bad feeling about this, I think he's lost it :/

 

[IndianWillow]

dravid only indian with 1000+ runs outside the sc in wins for india that's why i rank him as the best indian test batsman.

Exactly. Sachin is in a league of his own in terms of natural talent, but Dravid made more useful test runs for India when it really mattered, and especially outside SC.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...result=1;team=6;template=results;type=batting

Dravid averages 71 when India wins outside the subcontinent as opposed to Sachin's average of 54. Dravid is a true match winner for India.

 

[Sheriar]

Yeah, runs scored against mugs like Andy Bichel and Darren Sammy mean greater batsmanship than runs scored against Steyn because they came "in wins".

Dravid filled his boots against a weak Aussie attack in 2003/04. When they had their full attack, he averaged 15. The fact is that Dravid bashed plenty of cheap runs vs bottom ranked teams like WI and NZ that bumps his average masssively. The only good team that he has an excellent away record against is England.

He bascially failed most of the time when up against a great bowler/attack. Check all his so-called great innings and see the bowling attack. Recent example is failure against Dale Steyn's SA.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Younis Khan has a case to prove in Sri Lanka at the moment, at 34 he isnt going to be getting any younger. With 3 tests in Sri Lanka and a South Africa tour later, Younis Khan has to show whether he belongs with the greats or his stats got meaninglessly inflated due to a short career.

I have a bad feeling about this, I think he's lost it :/

If he genuinely is 34 (there has been some debate over his age hasnt there?) he's still at the peak of his career imo. He still has a lot to offer and could easily play another 30-40 tests.

 

[Sheriar]

You can manipulate stats to suit your needs.

Lehmann averaged 56 in wins on the SC compared to Ponting's 26. So Lehmann>Ponting?

 

[Space Cat]

Yeah, runs scored against mugs like Andy Bichel and Darren Sammy mean greater batsmanship than runs scored against Steyn because they came "in wins".

Dravid filled his boots against a weak Aussie attack in 2003/04. When they had their full attack, he averaged 15. The fact is that Dravid bashed plenty of cheap runs vs bottom ranked teams like WI and NZ that bumps his average masssively. The only good team that he has an excellent away record against is England.

He bascially failed most of the time when up against a great bowler/attack. Check all his so-called great innings and see the bowling attack. Recent example is failure against Dale Steyn's SA.

Check out dravids scores vs Walsh and Ambrose

Younis barely got a run vs them.

NZ and WI haven't always been bottom ranked teams throughout his career.

 

[Sheriar]

In NZ, his hundreds came in the 1 match which was a road and ended up as a boring draw.

How many did he make in the previous test when the ball was doing a lot and Simon Doull ran through India's batting on the 1st morning? Nothing.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63826.html

The 1997 series was ruined by rain and roads. Only Barbados produced a result.

None of these scores (good or bad) can be compared to runs against McGrath, Steyn etc away from home.

 

[Sheriar]

Dravid against McGrath and Warne in Aus - avg of 15

Dravid against Steyn in SA - avg of 22

Dravid against Murali in SL - avg of 32

He looked clueless against Saqlain, W and W in India as well. No hundreds. Of course, he made it up by smashing runs against Fazl e Akbar and Sami later on.

Even in 2006 tour of Pakistan, he made all his runs on roads in the 1st two tests. In the 3rd test which produced a result, he made 5 and 2.

 

[Zaz]

You cant really compare the two, ones played more than twice the matches as the other

Ponting Vs Dravid is a fairer comparison

 

[cricketworm]

We rarely had good bowling attack. After Kumble's departure, only good bowler in our team was Zak, does that mean anyone who has scored against us, all those innings are pointless?

Any win or runs scored against Murali-less test match is pointless?

Any win or runs scored against Aus. McGrath and Warne-less series is pointless?

Any win, or runs scored against W/W-less series is pointless?

Like I said, you are undervaluing many test level bowlers, very unfair.

 

[cricketjoshila]

YK's avg till march 2007 when he last played in SA,ENG ,WI or AUS...48.21

During this period

He Avgs

31 vs AUS

34 vs SA

45 vs ENG

39 vs WI

Since then he hasnt played at any of these countries and has played less than 10 innings outside Asia.That too againist NZ and ZIM and he avgs 64 in this period

Now we are comparing a player with less than half the matches and runs to Dravid.That comparision itself is void.Its like saying Shane Bond is better than Waqar Younis because Bond avgs less.

Let YK make 10k runs and then may be we can talk about who is better.Not to forget Dravid played cricket in 90s as well when it was not as easy to score runs as it was in 2000ss.

Again some people will post some weirg biased stats here,but we all know what is the opinion of the majority and the neutral fans here on PP and around the world.

Now here we are comparing a players with

 

[speed]

I think 95% of people will agree that dravid is a league ahead of yk.

 

[Monsee]

There is a country called West Indies and Pakistan too you know.

In West Indies:

YK: 23.44
Dravid: 65.69

In each other's country:

YK: 76.80
RD: 78.57

Also check out the differences. Where YK is better he's slightly better. Where RD is better there's a massive difference. (Eng and WI). So if you see overall away avg RD still trumps YK even now with RD's decline considered.

Indian supporters are in a class of their own (weird one too)...when it serves their own purposes, a comparison is not valid because YK has played a lot less tests and hence a moot point.

Yet, when they want to score a win (in a debate) they will use the same sort of equation to show how YK is inferior to Dravid...because of difference in averages, who cares if one has played only 5 tests separated by a lot of years and the other has played regularly in 17 tests!

What a logic

 

[ecstatic_freak]

Who cares bout averages and numbers dude, Dravid is WAY better than Younis.

 

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Who cares bout averages and numbers dude, Dravid is WAY better than Younis.

In that case Zaheer Khan is a better bowler than Wasim Akram, and Aamir Sohail is a better batsman than Sachin Tendulkar.

 

[umarakmalrocks]

Indian supporters are in a class of their own (weird one too)...when it serves their own purposes, a comparison is not valid because YK has played a lot less tests and hence a moot point.

Yet, when they want to score a win (in a debate) they will use the same sort of equation to show how YK is inferior to Dravid...because of difference in averages, who cares if one has played only 5 tests separated by a lot of years and the other has played regularly in 17 tests!

What a logic

Actually it can be said in reverse too.

A Pakistani says that YK has less avg in WI because he has played less tests. I'll refute by saying that he has higher avg in other countries because he has played less tests.

Besides why did YK skip the WI series this year?

 

[speed]

Actually it can be said in reverse too.

A Pakistani says that YK has less avg in WI because he has played less tests. I'll refute by saying that he has higher avg in other countries because he has played less tests.

Besides why did YK skip the WI series this year?

his brother died

 

[Monsee]

Actually it can be said in reverse too.

A Pakistani says that YK has less avg in WI because he has played less tests. I'll refute by saying that he has higher avg in other countries because he has played less tests.

Besides why did YK skip the WI series this year?

Don't change the topic...you were caught while using the hypocrisy gun, accept it and move on.

Next!

 

[AlizeeFan]

It's not that unfair actually. On first glance, stats would make it seem like they're both roughly equal.

Averages
Younis: 52.4
Dravid: 52.3

Younis Khan has 20 100s in 76 matches, which rougly equates to a century in every 3.8 matches.

Dravid has 36 centuries in 164 matches which is a century in every 4.5 matches.

vs England

YK: 43
Dravid: 41

Equal for sake of discussion

vs Australia

YK: 31
Dravid: 38

Winner: Dravid

vs Saffers

YK: 47
Dravid: 35

Winner: YK

vs Sri Lanka

YK: 52
Dravid: 48

Winner: YK slightly

vs New Zealand

YK: 60
Dravid: 45

Using these stats, one would think Younis Khan is statistically superior to Dravid, except against Australia where Dravid has pulled his weight; whereas YK takes the cake in Africa, SL and New Zealand

Having said that, Dravid has played twice the number of matches that YK has, so obviously stats would not tell the whole story, but looking at whatever numbers we have, we have to accept that YK wins this one, or if going for the benefit of doubt, we can change the verdict to:

Verdict: Younis Khan is statistically equal to, or marginally superior to Rahul Dravid

And to be honest, I wasnt expecting this; I was expecting Dravid to win this one by a landslide when I started stat-hunting. Stats are a funny thing

Dravid's stats after 76 tests

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...4;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

After 76 matches

Averages

Younis : 52.44
Dravid : 56.97

Younis has 20 century in 76 matches (3.8), Dravid got 16 centuries in 76 matches (4.75).

vs England

YK : 43.55 in 10 matches
Dravid : 75.91 in 9 matches

vs Australia
YK : 31.83 in 6 matches
Dravid : 57.08 in 14 matches

vs SA
YK : 46.87
Dravid : 34.10

vs SL

YK : 52.51
Dravid : 55.61

vs NZ
YK : 60.50
Dravid : 59.05

vs WI
YK : 38.94
Dravid : 60.80

<hr>

Home
YK : 59.31
Dravid : 51.19

Away
YK : 51.08
Dravid : 61.74

Neutral
YK : 46.63

<hr>

in Aus
YK : 43.16
Dravid : 64.72


in Eng
YK : 52.22
Dravid : 87.66

in SA
YK : 33.88
Dravid : 42.11

in NZ
YK : 65.28
Dravid : 64.57

in WI
YK : 23.44
Dravid : 63.66

in SL
YK : 40.53
Dravid : 46.55

 

[Sidcricfan]

Dravid

 

[Bhaijaan]

After 76 matches

Averages

Younis : 52.44
Dravid : 56.97

Younis has 20 century in 76 matches (3.8), Dravid got 16 centuries in 76 matches (4.75).

vs England

YK : 43.55 in 10 matches
Dravid : 75.91 in 9 matches

vs Australia
YK : 31.83 in 6 matches
Dravid : 57.08 in 14 matches

vs SA
YK : 46.87
Dravid : 34.10

vs SL

YK : 52.51
Dravid : 55.61

vs NZ
YK : 60.50
Dravid : 59.05

vs WI
YK : 38.94
Dravid : 60.80

<hr>

Home
YK : 59.31
Dravid : 51.19

Away
YK : 51.08
Dravid : 61.74

Neutral
YK : 46.63

<hr>

in Aus
YK : 43.16
Dravid : 64.72


in Eng
YK : 52.22
Dravid : 87.66

in SA
YK : 33.88
Dravid : 42.11

in NZ
YK : 65.28
Dravid : 64.57

in WI
YK : 23.44
Dravid : 63.66

in SL
YK : 40.53
Dravid : 46.55

Quite convincing.
Credit to Dravid for maintaining the standards for another 92 tests

 

[Lethalweapon]

Quite convincing.
Credit to Dravid for maintaining the standards for another 92 tests

really? how did he do that, by losing 10+ runs avg. in Aus ,SA and SL?

 

[zulfiqar]

Verdict: Younis Khan after 76 tests is statistically equal to, or marginally superior to Rahul Dravid at 164 tests.

I just had to point out the fallacy of this style of thought. First of all, I think Dravid is a better batsman than YK mainly because of his "clutch" gene that has made him India's #1 man to turn to in dire situations (the only other 2 contenders being Gavaskar & Laxman). Even though YK has also had his share of monumental innings (like vs India in '06), it wasn't from a position where we were behind and others helped along the way.

Now, the point of how ur comparing YK's 76 tests to Dravid's 150+ or whatever, how does this even make sense? YK will never reach anywhere near that amount of test matches; 76 tests is MORE than enough to qualify as a FULL career (just look at many of the past cricketers). Just because India players more tests, Dravid gets an automatic advantage? So to be the best cricketer the criteria is that your board must play more matches/year so that you can have at least 1+ test than the rest and be able to say you were able to do it longer??

YK/MoYo are two world-class batsmen that have had their stats COMPLETELY SLASHED because of unfavorable circumstances that led to ZERO home games and because of an inept board that led to BARELY ANY games AT ALL. I remember one year Pak played something like 2 games? (or was it no games at all in 2008?). You can't put that against him.

# of games shouldn't matter as long as you've qualified for a full career.

 

[zulfiqar]

I choose Dravid over YK without the use of the false pretense that more games = you are better. Dravid is simply the go-to man in situations when you are behind. Those are the games history remembers!

 

[Bhaijaan]

@Zulfiqar - Dravid's not better because he has played more games. Dravid's better because he has done well in more games. That's the difference. Shahid Afridi has played 350 ODIs and yet he's not anywhere near the best players because he hasn't done that well.

 

[zulfiqar]

@Zulfiqar - Dravid's not better because he has played more games. Dravid's better because he has done well in more games. That's the difference. Shahid Afridi has played 350 ODIs and yet he's not anywhere near the best players because he hasn't done that well.

Right, that's my point. Dravid had the opportunity to play more test matches and YK didn't. So how can this even be a factor in comparing the two? It's another thing that you can point to Dravid's longer career (in terms of timespan), where he has played roughly 4 more years, but # of games? I think as long as you're fulfilling a min. critera of x # of games you should be eligible for comparison. Lets say average is the only criteria for greatness. If you are averaging 50 after 80 tests and someone is averaging 50 after 120 tests (not considering any other factors), the two are exactly the same in terms of skill and ability (or for eg. if I'm selecting an all-time XI i have nothing to discriminate between the two).

 

[Bhaijaan]

Correction


It's not the factor in comparing the two. It is the factor to make the comparison look ridiculous. How can one possibly compare a player with someone who's done more than double compared to him? Yes if the guy with more matches was more of a hack like Afridi then i see a little statistically superiority doesn't mean much but here we have a player maintaining the standards for as many as 92 more test matches. That's a hell of a lot

 

[Wassixpakistani]

To me , Younis Khan is a Pakistani Legend who could have achieved far more then he already had if only he didn't became a victim of our politics .

Add to that , our cricket schedule over the passing years was just terrible with us playing only half the amount of games everybody else were playing . We were test-less for a good 2-3 years even .

Although before this thread , my initial reaction to this comparison would have being " it's ludicrous " but the statistics have surprised me a lot .

But still , to me Dravid was a special player whom I could always count upon in tough conditions . He had the aura of security and calmness around him and didn't back down from stiff challenges easily . The difference between an ATG and a good/excellent player is maintaining a good run against all attacks for the longest period of time , and after 164 matches or something Dravid had achieved that .

I recommend all to watch the recent India tour of England , and just see for themselves why Dravid is considered an ATG .

 

[eradicator]

I choose Dravid over YK without the use of the false pretense that more games = you are better. Dravid is simply the go-to man in situations when you are behind. Those are the games history remembers!

name me five games in which India were behind and Dravid performed . You are talking as if Dravid averages 99 overall and 200 in the 4th innings .

 

[LegCutter]

I choose Dravid over YK without the use of the false pretense that more games = you are better. Dravid is simply the go-to man in situations when you are behind. Those are the games history remembers!

Just look at Sheriar's posts on the previous page. He destroyed the myth that Dravid was good in pressure situations.

 

[IndianWillow]

Just look at Sheriar's posts on the previous page. He destroyed the myth that Dravid was good in pressure situations.

That is true of most Indian batsmen - I have never seen any one other than Laxman take on pressure like fish to water.

Dravid's asset to a test team is not his individual contribution alone, but his ability to forge huge partnerships that are the corner stone of test cricket. Dravid holds the record for being involved in the highest number of century partnerships in test cricket, I don't remember the exact number, it is like 85 odd. He is involved in one century partnership every 1.9 test matches or so, maintained for 164 tests. In other words, in one out of every three test innings Dravid comes out to play, you can expect him to be involved in a mamomth century stand.

 

[James]

'the myth that Dravid performs in pressure situations' ) ) What have these whippersnappers been doing with their lives?

 

[Mobashir]

If we can have a poll it will be very interesting.

I didn't knew that there were so many posters here who don't know anything about cricket and don't watch cricket. Their only cricket knowledge come from Statsguru!

Still, poor thread, and I don't know how it has reached 3 pages on Pakpassion, bad times this for the forum, after Misbah a match-winner reaching over 10 pages!

 

[LegCutter]

Dravid against McGrath and Warne in Aus - avg of 15

Dravid against Steyn in SA - avg of 22

Dravid against Murali in SL - avg of 32

He looked clueless against Saqlain, W and W in India as well. No hundreds. Of course, he made it up by smashing runs against Fazl e Akbar and Sami later on.

Even in 2006 tour of Pakistan, he made all his runs on roads in the 1st two tests. In the 3rd test which produced a result, he made 5 and 2.

Yeah, runs scored against mugs like Andy Bichel and Darren Sammy mean greater batsmanship than runs scored against Steyn because they came "in wins".

Dravid filled his boots against a weak Aussie attack in 2003/04. When they had their full attack, he averaged 15. The fact is that Dravid bashed plenty of cheap runs vs bottom ranked teams like WI and NZ that bumps his average masssively. The only good team that he has an excellent away record against is England.

He bascially failed most of the time when up against a great bowler/attack. Check all his so-called great innings and see the bowling attack. Recent example is failure against Dale Steyn's SA.

Dravid was a brilliant batsman there's no shadow of doubt about that, but piling runs against Bichel and Bracken, and failing against Mcgrath and Steyn really raises some eyebrows.