160,000 Indians renounced citizenship in 2021

[leonidas_alexandar]

The number is the highest in the past five years, U.S. being the country whose citizenship is most sought after.


Over 160,000 Indians renounced their citizenship in 2021, highest in the past five years, according to information provided by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) in the Lok Sabha on Tuesday. Over 78,000 Indians acquired U.S. citizenship, the highest among all other countries, by giving up Indian citizenship. India does not allow dual citizenship. As many as 362 Indians living in China also acquired Chinese citizenship.

Minister of State for Home Nityanand Rai, responding to a question by Fazlur Rehman, said in a written reply that “individuals renounced Indian citizenship for reasons personal to them.”

In 2018, MHA revised Form XXII under Citizenship Rules and included a column on “circumstances/reasons due to which applicant intends to acquire foreign citizenship and renounce Indian citizenship.”

The reply stated that the number of Indians living in Australia who relinquished their citizenship stood at 23,533, Canada- 21,597, U.K.-14,637, Italy-5,986, Netherlands- 2187, New Zealand- 2643, Singapore- 2516, U.S.A.- 78284, Pakistan-41 and Nepal-10.

A reply furnished by the ministry in 2021 said that the number of Indians who gave up citizenship in the years 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 stood at 1,33,049, 1,34,561, 1,44,017 and 85,248 respectively.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...citizenship/article65658065.ece?homepage=true

 

[leonidas_alexandar]

While the numbers are infinitesimally small - it is interesting to see that there are Indians who took up Chinese, Pakistani and Nepalese citizenships - would be intriguing to find out if family ties or something similar to that made them do that.

No dual citizenship means - Indians really do not have a choice but to renounce their citizenship once they acquire a foreign country's citizenship.

 

[KingKhanWC]

While the numbers are infinitesimally small - it is interesting to see that there are Indians who took up Chinese, Pakistani and Nepalese citizenships - would be intriguing to find out if family ties or something similar to that made them do that.

No dual citizenship means - Indians really do not have a choice but to renounce their citizenship once they acquire a foreign country's citizenship.

Family ties or perhaps a better life? Remember most Indians are poor, some stats say 700 million plus in poverty. India as a nation is 3rd world, having a large economy doesn't mean much with so many people to feed.

Also not all Indians fall for the anti-Pak and anti-China propaganda.

 

[Browncaps]

Family ties or perhaps a better life? Remember most Indians are poor, some stats say 700 million plus in poverty. India as a nation is 3rd world, having a large economy doesn't mean much with so many people to feed.

Also not all Indians fall for the anti-Pak and anti-China propaganda.

I have a feeling cricketjoshila will counter this with some links.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have a feeling cricketjoshila will counter this with some links.

I posted a link, he diverted.

Just like Brits who ignore Nato's evil crimes, Indians shouldnt deny this but instead try to make a change.

Or move as OP.

Can Indians then renounce their new citizenship to move back to India or is it a one way ticket out?

 

[Browncaps]

I posted a link, he diverted.

Just like Brits who ignore Nato's evil crimes, Indians shouldnt deny this but instead try to make a change.

Or move as OP.

Can Indians then renounce their new citizenship to move back to India or is it a one way ticket out?

From what I hear, they can switch back to indian citizenship, but hopefully someone can confirm.

 

[PakLFC]

Well of course they will escape a poverty crises and over populated country like India to live in the most prosperous one. If all they need to do is burn the Indian passport to renounce their citizenship is a very good deal. They would happily burn the Indian flag even lose their arms and legs for American citizenship. They have every reason to be ashamed of India.

 

[NishanKonar]

I posted a link, he diverted.

Just like Brits who ignore Nato's evil crimes, Indians shouldnt deny this but instead try to make a change.

Or move as OP.

Can Indians then renounce their new citizenship to move back to India or is it a one way ticket out?

Of course u can get ur Indian citizenship back

Raghuram Rajan was US citizen when he became Central bank chief. Was given Indian citizenship

 

[NishanKonar]

Good to see more Indian presence in Western nations - USA , UK, Canada & Australia. These are mostly highly qualified and occupying high posts in corporates , academics and government - not blue collar migrants like Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

This rising Indian diaspora will be huge asset for India's future - just like the Jewish lobby and Chinese diaspora. We should nurture the diaspora better

Today nobody can pass any law aainst Israel in the US Congress. Hope 20 years from now Indian diaspora can ensure similar impact

 

[pillionrider]

[MENTION=152021]Rajdeep[/MENTION] Congrats bro on the first world life. Was it hard singing God Save the Queen?

 

[gani999]

The only reason is because India does not allow people to possess dual nationality.

And most Indians who migrate happen to be the middle class and even the high net worth, not the poor. So it is clearly not a case of 'escaping poverty' or whatever it is that some Britstanis keep prattling about.

 

[Stewie]

Good to see more Indian presence in Western nations - USA , UK, Canada & Australia. These are mostly highly qualified and occupying high posts in corporates , academics and government - not blue collar migrants like Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

This rising Indian diaspora will be huge asset for India's future - just like the Jewish lobby and Chinese diaspora. We should nurture the diaspora better

Today nobody can pass any law aainst Israel in the US Congress. Hope 20 years from now Indian diaspora can ensure similar impact

Do you live in the USA? The percentage of indians and Pakistanis based on their total numbers occupying white collars jobs is about the same here. It is different in the UK.
Also there are plenty of blue collared Indians in the USA too. Most of the motels are run by them.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The only reason is because India does not allow people to possess dual nationality.

And most Indians who migrate happen to be the middle class and even the high net worth, not the poor. So it is clearly not a case of 'escaping poverty' or whatever it is that some Britstanis keep prattling about.

Its the living conditions. Most of us who migrated from India did not do that to escape poverty. So you are right.

In India, even if you are rich, once you step out of your home and car, the terrible conditions are same for everyone. Chaos, noise, pollution, trash and crowded streets cannot be escaped in India.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I would not have renounced Indian citizenship if it was possible to have dual citizenship.

 

[Stewie]

I would not have renounced Indian citizenship if it was possible to have dual citizenship.

I think its not a big deal. You can always get it back.

 

[Technics 1210]

The only reason is because India does not allow people to possess dual nationality.

And most Indians who migrate happen to be the middle class and even the high net worth, not the poor. So it is clearly not a case of 'escaping poverty' or whatever it is that some Britstanis keep prattling about.

I think you are missing the point. We keep hearing India's economy is booming, one of the fastest growing, TRILLIONS in GDP and foreign reserves, yet middle-class Indians are fleeing India for a better life and more money?

Something is not adding up.

 

[Technics 1210]

Good to see more Indian presence in Western nations - USA , UK, Canada & Australia. These are mostly highly qualified and occupying high posts in corporates , academics and government - not blue collar migrants like Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

This rising Indian diaspora will be huge asset for India's future - just like the Jewish lobby and Chinese diaspora. We should nurture the diaspora better

Today nobody can pass any law aainst Israel in the US Congress. Hope 20 years from now Indian diaspora can ensure similar impact

2 most common visas issued to Indians and Pakistanis in the UK are Spouse, and Skilled. If entering on Skilled then Indians and Pakistanis end up in white collar jobs, if Spouse the most likely blue collar jobs.

The majority of bus and train drivers in London for example are Indian, as well as corners shop owners.

And yes, there is a cap on Indian skilled worker visas, a business in the UK must advertise the job in the UK and prove no candidate is available before sponsoring an Indian worker.

So the majority of Indians who relinquished their Indian citizenship in the UK are doing so because they've been naturalised via their spouse visa.

 

[ahsan17]

Good to see more Indian presence in Western nations - USA , UK, Canada & Australia. These are mostly highly qualified and occupying high posts in corporates , academics and government - not blue collar migrants like Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

This rising Indian diaspora will be huge asset for India's future - just like the Jewish lobby and Chinese diaspora. We should nurture the diaspora better

Today nobody can pass any law aainst Israel in the US Congress. Hope 20 years from now Indian diaspora can ensure similar impact

You are clueless if you think Pakistanis largely occupy blue collar jobs in US and Canada. Can't speak for UK or Australia.

And if you think laws against Israel can't be passed because of immigration. Have you ever heard of Evangelicals?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Good to see more Indian presence in Western nations - USA , UK, Canada & Australia. These are mostly highly qualified and occupying high posts in corporates , academics and government - not blue collar migrants like Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

This rising Indian diaspora will be huge asset for India's future - just like the Jewish lobby and Chinese diaspora. We should nurture the diaspora better

Today nobody can pass any law aainst Israel in the US Congress. Hope 20 years from now Indian diaspora can ensure similar impact

All that does is highlight how underfunctioning India itself is as a country. Why can't Indians make the country great from inside their own borders using the power of Hindutva and brains of the most sought after technicians and think tanks in the world today?

 

[Champ_Pal]

I think you are missing the point. We keep hearing India's economy is booming, one of the fastest growing, TRILLIONS in GDP and foreign reserves, yet middle-class Indians are fleeing India for a better life and more money?

Something is not adding up.

Its simple. You will understand it if you ever lived in India. Over population and dirtiness combined with lack of recognition of effort and talent.. You can get paid a lot more in the west for the same work you do in India. The work culture is a lot more relaxed in the West compared to India where you are expected to put in excess of 10 hours a day.

 

[Champ_Pal]

All that does is highlight how underfunctioning India itself is as a country. Why can't Indians make the country great from inside their own borders using the power of Hindutva and brains of the most sought after technicians and think tanks in the world today?

India is a mess and on top of it it is a democracy where politicians have to pander to masses for votes while ignoring development and long term plans.
Economy wise it is developing. Infrastructure wise it is a 100 years behind west. Politicians do not have the will to mobilize millions of people to get a project completed. Every little step takes months and sometimes years. Nothing ever gets done on time.

 

[Kriketer]

Not surprised by the delusional posts of some usual members. The amount of blue collar jobs I have seen Indians doing in North America and UK is much higher than citizens from other countries. Gas station, hotels, truck drivers, delivery man, restaurant workers etc I have seen many Indians working those jobs.

This is not to belittle what they do but these delusional chest beating Indians who on basis of a few CEOs and some random high profile jobs think that they all make it big in foreign lands and others like Pakistani and Bangladeshi are left to do lower skilled jobs are just naive. I have seen Pakistanis in several high profile jobs or running good business.

Point is their nationalist types always present a picture of India as flawless, dominating the world (lol) but reality is far apart. It's a third world country with dire standard of living for majority or else you wouldn't have so many leaving at first opportunity. From what I recall it was around 2-3 million who move abroad from India annually, and Indians make the highest numbers compared to any other country living abroad.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not surprised by the delusional posts of some usual members. The amount of blue collar jobs I have seen Indians doing in North America and UK is much higher than citizens from other countries. Gas station, hotels, truck drivers, delivery man, restaurant workers etc I have seen many Indians working those jobs.

This is not to belittle what they do but these delusional chest beating Indians who on basis of a few CEOs and some random high profile jobs think that they all make it big in foreign lands and others like Pakistani and Bangladeshi are left to do lower skilled jobs are just naive. I have seen Pakistanis in several high profile jobs or running good business.

Point is their nationalist types always present a picture of India as flawless, dominating the world (lol) but reality is far apart. It's a third world country with dire standard of living for majority or else you wouldn't have so many leaving at first opportunity. From what I recall it was around 2-3 million who move abroad from India annually, and Indians make the highest numbers compared to any other country living abroad.

In UK the household income of a Indian origin family is right near the top, pakistan and Bangladesh are near the bottom.

In USA Indian ori household income is again among the top, pakistan is somewhere in the middle.

The number of Indian origin people in blue collared jobs is far less than that of pakistani origin and Bangladesh is way way below.

The biggest diaspora in the world is that of the Chinese, may be they are running away as well.

Its amusing when pakistanis try to talk about poverty, living standards of other countries, when pakistan is staring at bankruptcy and is living on loans and bailouts. Every year many pakistanis line up to get refuge in India. May be you should worry about that.

 

[Browncaps]

In UK the household income of a Indian origin family is right near the top, pakistan and Bangladesh are near the bottom.

In USA Indian ori household income is again among the top, pakistan is somewhere in the middle.

The number of Indian origin people in blue collared jobs is far less than that of pakistani origin and Bangladesh is way way below.

Does this (if correct) information personally benefit you, as you have been recycling it for a decade over here?

 

[pillionrider]

lol at some of the posts here.


160,000 is 0.01% of the country. You'd think India was Syria or something judging by the use of words like "fleeing"


I was born abroad and have travelled as a tourist to the US and Europe and while I never seriously thought of moving abroad, those trips just reconfirmed my choice. I have friends and family including a brother who live abroad. To each their own. I'm comfortable here, even under Modi. But those who've left need to understand they made a choice that they feel suits them. It's not necessarily the aspiration of those who stay back despite the option to live in the so-called first world.


At the end of the day, how much ever the place around me might stink, at least it's my own stench. And I love that aroma

 

[Champ_Pal]

Does this (if correct) information personally benefit you, as you have been recycling it for a decade over here?

I think those claims bust some of the tripe that some posters are saying about Indians fleeing India.

 

[irfan]

In UK the household income of a Indian origin family is right near the top, pakistan and Bangladesh are near the bottom.

In USA Indian ori household income is again among the top, pakistan is somewhere in the middle.

The number of Indian origin people in blue collared jobs is far less than that of pakistani origin and Bangladesh is way way below.

The biggest diaspora in the world is that of the Chinese, may be they are running away as well.

Its amusing when pakistanis try to talk about poverty, living standards of other countries, when pakistan is staring at bankruptcy and is living on loans and bailouts. Every year many pakistanis line up to get refuge in India. May be you should worry about that.

As far as I know most of those are actually of East African origin, they did not come from India directly, probably three generations removed from actually coming from India.

 

[Technics 1210]

Its simple. You will understand it if you ever lived in India. Over population and dirtiness combined with lack of recognition of effort and talent.. You can get paid a lot more in the west for the same work you do in India. The work culture is a lot more relaxed in the West compared to India where you are expected to put in excess of 10 hours a day.

Heard it all before, China is in a similar position, but the Chinese do not flee their nation, you know why? Their economy is actually strong, and booming. Their government is building new homes too.

So what is India’s Hindutva government doing? Where are the spoils of the economy going? In the pockets of the rich? If yes, proves India is still living in poverty and humiliation.

 

[Technics 1210]

As far as I know most of those are actually of East African origin, they did not come from India directly, probably three generations removed from actually coming from India.

The majority of Indian household income stems from Pensions. After all, the UK invited Indians to the UK for the menial jobs in the 50s and 60s. You can imagine the size of the pension pots.

 

[ahsan17]

lol at some of the posts here.


160,000 is 0.01% of the country. You'd think India was Syria or something judging by the use of words like "fleeing"


I was born abroad and have travelled as a tourist to the US and Europe and while I never seriously thought of moving abroad, those trips just reconfirmed my choice. I have friends and family including a brother who live abroad. To each their own. I'm comfortable here, even under Modi. But those who've left need to understand they made a choice that they feel suits them. It's not necessarily the aspiration of those who stay back despite the option to live in the so-called first world.


At the end of the day, how much ever the place around me might stink, at least it's my own stench. And I love that aroma

TBF, the 160k is also artificially low because Indians need 50+ years to get a green card in the US from H1B. A lot never apply for GC, other move back to India, etc. If they could get GC right away, the number might be 10x or even higher.

 

[Technics 1210]

lol at some of the posts here.


160,000 is 0.01% of the country. You'd think India was Syria or something judging by the use of words like "fleeing"


I was born abroad and have travelled as a tourist to the US and Europe and while I never seriously thought of moving abroad, those trips just reconfirmed my choice. I have friends and family including a brother who live abroad. To each their own. I'm comfortable here, even under Modi. But those who've left need to understand they made a choice that they feel suits them. It's not necessarily the aspiration of those who stay back despite the option to live in the so-called first world.


At the end of the day, how much ever the place around me might stink, at least it's my own stench. And I love that aroma

0.01% because there is an immigration cap. No cap, and over 1 Billion Indians would flee 'incredible' India.

Yes the cap is maxed out each year.

 

[cricketjoshila]

As far as I know most of those are actually of East African origin, they did not come from India directly, probably three generations removed from actually coming from India.

I don't know what you know but i am talking about what the survey put out as "Indian".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In UK the household income of a Indian origin family is right near the top, pakistan and Bangladesh are near the bottom.

In USA Indian ori household income is again among the top, pakistan is somewhere in the middle.

The number of Indian origin people in blue collared jobs is far less than that of pakistani origin and Bangladesh is way way below.

The biggest diaspora in the world is that of the Chinese, may be they are running away as well.

Its amusing when pakistanis try to talk about poverty, living standards of other countries, when pakistan is staring at bankruptcy and is living on loans and bailouts. Every year many pakistanis line up to get refuge in India. May be you should worry about that.

Unfortunately, your use of Pakistan and Bangladesh as comparison points only proves the point of [MENTION=4924]Kriketer[/MENTION] whom you are replying to. India was supposedly the next rising superpower for the last two decades, but instead of the worlds finest rushing to find employment in this resurgent Utopia of the east, we still see Indians fleeing in droves and the country looks barely any different to Pakistan despite all this supposed wealth.

So what do all these bragging rights boild down to essentially? Some of your smartest people get to ditch India and become successful Brits or Americans. Nothing wrong with that, but it's the same for Bangladeshis or Pakistanis who leave for foreign pastures.

 

[pillionrider]

TBF, the 160k is also artificially low because Indians need 50+ years to get a green card in the US from H1B. A lot never apply for GC, other move back to India, etc. If they could get GC right away, the number might be 10x or even higher.

This 50+ years stat or rule if there's such a thing, doesn't align with the people I know who have green cards.

0.01% because there is an immigration cap. No cap, and over 1 Billion Indians would flee 'incredible' India.

Yes the cap is maxed out each year.

And you get this opinion from your extensive study of what?

On that topic, why did your folks flee or move, was it, from Pakistan?

 

[Robert]

One would assume that plenty of Indians would come to UK, as part of a Brexit-replacing trade deal. Modi will wants more UK visas issued. And we need tens of thousands of clinical staff to replace the EU NHS workers who left.

 

[gani999]

Heard it all before, China is in a similar position, but the Chinese do not flee their nation, you know why? Their economy is actually strong, and booming. Their government is building new homes too.

So what is India’s Hindutva government doing? Where are the spoils of the economy going? In the pockets of the rich? If yes, proves India is still living in poverty and humiliation.

Well, the Chinese high net worth types are ditching their paradise in greater numbers than the Indians are ditching theirs. So much for all the strong economy and house building.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/migration-of-millionaires-worldwide-2022/

 

[Technics 1210]

And you get this opinion from your extensive study of what?

On that topic, why did your folks flee or move, was it, from Pakistan?

Easy, Modi is begging the UK government to lift the cap.

As for your second question, UK Government invite.

 

[Technics 1210]

Well, the Chinese high net worth types are ditching their paradise in greater numbers than the Indians are ditching theirs. So much for all the strong economy and house building.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/migration-of-millionaires-worldwide-2022/

Complete nonsense. Citing an infographic?

Here's official data from UK Government.

Indian nationals are at #1, China nationals are at #10

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...heunitedkingdombycountryofbirthandnationality

 

[pillionrider]

Easy, Modi is begging the UK government to lift the cap.

As for your second question, UK Government invite.

Plenty of Indians want to live in the West for economic reasons or because the milieu they come from, see it as a prestigious thing to do. No one's disputing that. I've given my personal viewpoint about my choices. I don't also believe that Indians are fleeing. They are moving like migrants do in search of what they believe are better pastures.

Regarding the invite to your ancestors. Did it include a personal note from Her Majesty herself?

 

[Technics 1210]

Plenty of Indians want to live in the West for economic reasons or because the milieu they come from, see it as a prestigious thing to do. No one's disputing that. I've given my personal viewpoint about my choices. I don't also believe that Indians are fleeing. They are moving like migrants do in search of what they believe are better pastures.

Regarding the invite to your ancestors. Did it include a personal note from Her Majesty herself?

I am not talking about Indians who migrated post WW2. I am talking about Indians, here and now, this generation, fleeing 'incredible' India. For all the boasting its pretty clear India is not the 'incredible' booming country Indians claim it to be. It's all lies.

What makes it worse is Indians cannot let go of Brtish rule, but want to migrate to the UK. Hmm. Very iffy.

 

[gani999]

Complete nonsense. Citing an infographic?

Here's official data from UK Government.

Indian nationals are at #1, China nationals are at #10

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...heunitedkingdombycountryofbirthandnationality

You are citing only the stats for UK while the link I posted is about worldwide movements. Clearly rich Chinese don't prefer the UK.

Is it all that difficult to read?

 

[Technics 1210]

You are citing only the stats for UK while the link I posted is about worldwide movements. Clearly rich Chinese don't prefer the UK.

Is it all that difficult to read?

I have been referring to UK immigration throughout this thread, was it difficult to read and comprehend?

Still, and infographic is no match for official government stats. I am sure someone can pull out the US immigration stats too. Just for giggles, how many Chinese migrate to India?

 

[Rajdeep]

[MENTION=152021]Rajdeep[/MENTION] Congrats bro on the first world life. Was it hard singing God Save the Queen?

You need to cut down the obsession with me bro. We can have political differences and still be friends...LOL.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The only reason is because India does not allow people to possess dual nationality.

And most Indians who migrate happen to be the middle class and even the high net worth, not the poor. So it is clearly not a case of 'escaping poverty' or whatever it is that some Britstanis keep prattling about.

Most poor cant afford it not because they love India even when struggling to eat.


Many poor who are able to get loans do leave India. Give them free travel, free flights, they would leave in a heartbeat.

The point of this thread was not the numbers (which are much lower than reality) but to discuss why people want to leave India. Now you have said most are middle class, so why leave if you dont need to for money?

 

[NishanKonar]

In modern era immigration is basically movement of labor across markets. Its hugely beneficial for India that Indians are able to migrate so easily to Western nations due to our superior education and general positive perception. In future such migration will be beneficial

And there is lot of back and forth movement. I am currently student at UT Austin and most likely I will move back soon. My product head at my previous company was a Stanfprd grad who worked in Google ( Mountain View ) and now moved back to India and become senior director at a top startup

India has largest offices of Google , amazon , Facebook, Microsoft offices USA and lot of those employees are US returnees. That's a benefit of having large Indian presence in Bay Area . With more Indian CEOs this process can only accelerate in the future

Point is this process is beneficial for India in the long term. It will lead to more business and trade relations. And also create a powerful Indian lobby in the West like the Jewish Lobby !

Regarding Pakistanis - getting visa for Western nations like US is herculean task. Rejections are extremely high. So can understand the frustration

 

[Stewie]

There is almost zero delta in the US between Pakistani and India earners. The stats show Indian household incomes are higher because almost all Indian couples I know here, they both work. Pakistanis n the other hand are very conservative in that sense and most females are housewives.

Same story for blue collared workers. For every Pakistanis manning a gas station, you would find a patel manning a motel front desk.

Perhaps the difference is wide in the UK but in the US there is very little difference.

 

[rhony]

There is almost zero delta in the US between Pakistani and India earners. The stats show Indian household incomes are higher because almost all Indian couples I know here, they both work. Pakistanis n the other hand are very conservative in that sense and most females are housewives.

Same story for blue collared workers. For every Pakistanis manning a gas station, you would find a patel manning a motel front desk.

Perhaps the difference is wide in the UK but in the US there is very little difference.

Thats a weird argument. Half the household income and there is "zero delta"? Go to high tech companies and you will find one Pakistani for every 50 Indian engineers. Most tech companies have bases in India as India is the outsourcing hub of tech companies. There are bound to be more Indians. Indians also have massive presence in Masters and PhD programs along with Chinese. Again, Pakistani presence isn't that much in universities. Once the students get out of universities, there are a million Indian consultancy companies that place these engineers in companies. It's a huge eco system and Pakistanis aren't even in the picture.

 

[rhony]

Most poor cant afford it not because they love India even when struggling to eat.


Many poor who are able to get loans do leave India. Give them free travel, free flights, they would leave in a heartbeat.

The point of this thread was not the numbers (which are much lower than reality) but to discuss why people want to leave India. Now you have said most are middle class, so why leave if you dont need to for money?

I'm sure you are looking at your own story but it doesn't work that way anymore. You need to show enough cash to be able to get admission in US univs. They are all middle or upper middle class in India. Most don't get funding so they are paying about 10k USD as fees per sem. In Pakistani rupees you can even consider these families rich.

The other way to get into US is through inter company transfers which means they are already earning well enough. The last kind of migration is old parents and the kids need to provide enough financial support to get the green cards. Poor in India go to Muslim countries like UAE or Saudi Arabia for labor work. The middle class goes to Western countries for education or jobs.

 

[NishanKonar]

I'm sure you are looking at your own story but it doesn't work that way anymore. You need to show enough cash to be able to get admission in US univs. They are all middle or upper middle class in India. Most don't get funding so they are paying about 10k USD as fees per sem. In Pakistani rupees you can even consider these families rich.

The other way to get into US is through inter company transfers which means they are already earning well enough. The last kind of migration is old parents and the kids need to provide enough financial support to get the green cards. Poor in India go to Muslim countries like UAE or Saudi Arabia for labor work. The middle class goes to Western countries for education or jobs.

This is so true. Getting into USA is impossible unless you are highly educated or working as doctor or tech sector. Same is true for Canada , Australia. They have strict criteria for their PR program. UK does not have any such PR program but there will be such a provision in new FTA being negotiated with UK - which will probably open the floodgates into UK for educated Indians ( just like US and Canada )

Poor migrants go mostly to Middle east . Although now corporates also hire Indians in significant numbers from top colleges in India for high paying jobs in Dubai / Doha / Jeddah. Already you can large number of Indians in senior and mid level roles in most Gulf based companies

All in all immigration is not something for India to worry about. Growing diaspora will help us immensely in the future in securing Indian interests in trade / business and foreign policy with important nations like US / UK / Saudi Arabia / UAE who have major stakes in international affairs

 

[NishanKonar]

I personally think Pakistan shpuld follow in India's footsteps. Set up more engineering colleges. Educate large mass of engg grads who can get admission in US colleges and the secure jobs in Bay Area

Once u have decent base of Pakistani tech workers in Bay Area , you can leverage that to outsource IT projects to Pakistan and that will boost growth of IT sector in Pakistan. Of course it wont happen overnight but a long term plan can help put Pakistan on world IT map


ps : Bangladesh is showing big increase in student numbers in the USA in recent years !

 

[Afzal_K]

While the numbers are infinitesimally small - it is interesting to see that there are Indians who took up Chinese, Pakistani and Nepalese citizenships - would be intriguing to find out if family ties or something similar to that made them do that.

No dual citizenship means - Indians really do not have a choice but to renounce their citizenship once they acquire a foreign country's citizenship.

They have OCI, as good as citizen. Many OCIs live in India, the only difference is you cannot own a farm land or stand in politics

Why wouldnt anyone take US passport? visa free and respectful travel

 

[Afzal_K]

I personally think Pakistan shpuld follow in India's footsteps. Set up more engineering colleges. Educate large mass of engg grads who can get admission in US colleges and the secure jobs in Bay Area

Once u have decent base of Pakistani tech workers in Bay Area , you can leverage that to outsource IT projects to Pakistan and that will boost growth of IT sector in Pakistan. Of course it wont happen overnight but a long term plan can help put Pakistan on world IT map


ps : Bangladesh is showing big increase in student numbers in the USA in recent years !

Pakistan is too backwards and religious, our whole system is how to 1up near India, ways we can destroy it and smart people making money with these factors

 

[pillionrider]

You need to cut down the obsession with me bro. We can have political differences and still be friends...LOL.

Thanks but no thanks.

When I see people who annoy me irl, I'm constantly judging them - "Must be a Modi fan."

 

[Stewie]

Thats a weird argument. Half the household income and there is "zero delta"? Go to high tech companies and you will find one Pakistani for every 50 Indian engineers. Most tech companies have bases in India as India is the outsourcing hub of tech companies. There are bound to be more Indians. Indians also have massive presence in Masters and PhD programs along with Chinese. Again, Pakistani presence isn't that much in universities. Once the students get out of universities, there are a million Indian consultancy companies that place these engineers in companies. It's a huge eco system and Pakistanis aren't even in the picture.

Zero delta in terms of per capita income and not per household. Read again.

And no your logic is flawed. Pakistani immigration is mostly through students who came to study and end up getting sponsored by US companies or through family immigration who went to school here or others who came to work such as doctors. Believe it or not it’s easier for Pakistanis to get green cards once they are in the system than Indians because there is a huge back log of Indians. Also Indians on work visas have a lower market rate than a citizen or green card holder.
Your argument would work if you were making a case for the larger numbers and not the earning potential. You are only looking at IT side of things whereas my view was more holistic. In terms of income, there is virtually no difference. If as many Pakistani origin females started working as Indian origin females, the household stats would start leveling out officially.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan is too backwards and religious, our whole system is how to 1up near India, ways we can destroy it and smart people making money with these factors

If Pakistan is backwards and religious and it's such a bad thing, why is India going one step further and voting Hindutva govt into power so they can bring beef bans and temple construction as their primary purpose?

 

[Afzal_K]

If Pakistan is backwards and religious and it's such a bad thing, why is India going one step further and voting Hindutva govt into power so they can bring beef bans and temple construction as their primary purpose?

Don't know much about that, besides hem being religious etc - I am saying they ae doing part of having good universities and tech industry etc so their grads get opportunities .

Pakistan on other hand is wasted lot of their ideology etc on how to beat India, cmon dont u see it havent u been raised there

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Don't know much about that, besides hem being religious etc - I am saying they ae doing part of having good universities and tech industry etc so their grads get opportunities .

Pakistan on other hand is wasted lot of their ideology etc on how to beat India, cmon dont u see it havent u been raised there

So it seems you can have good universities and education despite being backwards and religious if you are holding up India as an example. They are definitely going more backwards, and more religious, you didn't really address that point.

 

[Afzal_K]

So it seems you can have good universities and education despite being backwards and religious if you are holding up India as an example. They are definitely going more backwards, and more religious, you didn't really address that point.

Th amount of folks turning religious is like not even 1%, this Hindutva ** is not bought by all. youth remains concentrated on cellphone and education. its not like India is turning into some religious craze and in comparison to Islam, its still way calmer as you would know.

Pakistan is known as a terrorist country around the world, regardless of your Osama excuse, its got no relevance, fame, pride and citizen's are hated everywhere,. People pretend to be Indian to save their ***, do you have any idea?

We beg beg beg, bow down more now

 

[Kriketer]

Th amount of folks turning religious is like not even 1%, this Hindutva ** is not bought by all. youth remains concentrated on cellphone and education. its not like India is turning into some religious craze and in comparison to Islam, its still way calmer as you would know.

Pakistan is known as a terrorist country around the world, regardless of your Osama excuse, its got no relevance, fame, pride and citizen's are hated everywhere,. People pretend to be Indian to save their ***, do you have any idea?

We beg beg beg, bow down more now

This notion of Pakistani pretending to be Indian is as ridiculous as they come. I have known many Pakistani in the West and none ever claimed to be Indian. Pakistan is a terrorist country only for idiots who don't understand proxy wars consequences. Pakistan was dragged into it, not India. That wouldn't make Pakistan or Pakistanis as terrorists. There are equally well educated Pakistanis in US/Canada and they are doing well in the job market. Indians are just a lot more and leave India in a much much higher number hence their presence is a lot more noticeable in the West than anyone else from other countries. Education system is better in India but a few IT consultants I dealt with in India, I could easily say they were extremely unprofessional and clueless about the subject, which wouldn't be the case while dealing with say Western consultants. Cheap labour does wonders and India got plenty of it.

In last decade they have equally slipped in religious animosity by supporting fascist government, which speaks for the country, while Pakistan in that case is better as we don't elect a person who detest other religions. We do have religious nut jobs problem but it does not reflect in overall society the way you are putting it. And economic struggle of Pakistan is mostly due to deep corruption and unstable governments. These conversation can go length, but both India and Pakistan got their own set of problems and struggle.

 

[Afzal_K]

This notion of Pakistani pretending to be Indian is as ridiculous as they come. I have known many Pakistani in the West and none ever claimed to be Indian. Pakistan is a terrorist country only for idiots who don't understand proxy wars consequences. Pakistan was dragged into it, not India. That wouldn't make Pakistan or Pakistanis as terrorists. There are equally well educated Pakistanis in US/Canada and they are doing well in the job market. Indians are just a lot more and leave India in a much much higher number hence their presence is a lot more noticeable in the West than anyone else from other countries. Education system is better in India but a few IT consultants I dealt with in India, I could easily say they were extremely unprofessional and clueless about the subject, which wouldn't be the case while dealing with say Western consultants. Cheap labour does wonders and India got plenty of it.

In last decade they have equally slipped in religious animosity by supporting fascist government, which speaks for the country, while Pakistan in that case is better as we don't elect a person who detest other religions. We do have religious nut jobs problem but it does not reflect in overall society the way you are putting it. And economic struggle of Pakistan is mostly due to deep corruption and unstable governments. These conversation can go length, but both India and Pakistan got their own set of problems and struggle.

It wasn't the same after 911, am over 45 so seen many examples and lived in few countries. I am not saying they have it perfect but far better, we have - actually HAD potential but things haven't changed much in Pakistan

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Th amount of folks turning religious is like not even 1%, this Hindutva ** is not bought by all. youth remains concentrated on cellphone and education. its not like India is turning into some religious craze and in comparison to Islam, its still way calmer as you would know.

Pakistan is known as a terrorist country around the world, regardless of your Osama excuse, its got no relevance, fame, pride and citizen's are hated everywhere,. People pretend to be Indian to save their ***, do you have any idea?

We beg beg beg, bow down more now

That's ironic considering you are pretending to be Pakistani.

 

[Kriketer]

It wasn't the same after 911, am over 45 so seen many examples and lived in few countries. I am not saying they have it perfect but far better, we have - actually HAD potential but things haven't changed much in Pakistan

You are over 45, and I have spent 25+ years in North America and never heard or came across any Pakistani calling himself Indian for any means. Reading some random stuff online and believing such rubbish isn't a smart way going about things. And again India case is very different, Pakistan was dragged into a proxy war for past 20 years and consequences of it has been dire. A few rich getting richer doesn't make things better off in India. Poverty and hunger index still remain highest there, corruption equally keeps worsening so its not all rosey. Yes India is making economic progress but it is not reflective in the general society, neither are there policies which will benefit the 2/3rd living under $2 a day there.

 

[happydavy]

Many of you have missed one of the most important points and that's a 3 letter word - TAX. No where in the world a high earning professional ends up paying taxes as much as in India. The tax + the surcharge + government cess, all adds upto well over 42% if you earn more than 2 cr an year (roughly $250k). Many people in this segment are the ones moving out primarily to save taxes. Again I have lived in several countries and there's no country that has such interlinked financial system that even a credit card failed transaction appears in your AES and IT officer can even ask questions on that. Many people are absolutely fed up of the tax scrutiny being done these days and getting notices for missing reporting small transactions. Your friend deposit 5 lacs rupees in your account as a loan and the next thing you know is it comes up in scrutiny and IT officer asks you to report that as an income (and pay tax on it) and not loan since personal loans can only be from family members.

So what many folks are doing - give up the Indian passport and acquire passport of a western country, but apply for an Overseas Citizen of India card (OCI) which allows them to reside, work or do business in India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Many of you have missed one of the most important points and that's a 3 letter word - TAX. No where in the world a high earning professional ends up paying taxes as much as in India. The tax + the surcharge + government cess, all adds upto well over 42% if you earn more than 2 cr an year (roughly $250k). Many people in this segment are the ones moving out primarily to save taxes. Again I have lived in several countries and there's no country that has such interlinked financial system that even a credit card failed transaction appears in your AES and IT officer can even ask questions on that. Many people are absolutely fed up of the tax scrutiny being done these days and getting notices for missing reporting small transactions. Your friend deposit 5 lacs rupees in your account as a loan and the next thing you know is it comes up in scrutiny and IT officer asks you to report that as an income (and pay tax on it) and not loan since personal loans can only be from family members.

So what many folks are doing - give up the Indian passport and acquire passport of a western country, but apply for an Overseas Citizen of India card (OCI) which allows them to reside, work or do business in India.

That is surprising. If India is so efficient at tax collection you would think it would look like Switzerland not Bangladesh.

 

[happydavy]

That is surprising. If India is so efficient at tax collection you would think it would look like Switzerland not Bangladesh.

Efficient at tax collections only from service class people i.e professionals. Less than 10% people in India file taxes returns (ignoring people under 20 and oldies above 70 that number would rise to perhaps 20%). The rest just don't pay taxes. Agricultural income is exempted from tax so close to 200 million farmers don't pay taxes (chances are 20-30% of them would be fake farmers who would have bought some agricultural land to get classified as farmers and to hide their other income)

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Efficient at tax collections only from service class people i.e professionals. Less than 10% people in India file taxes returns (ignoring people under 20 and oldies above 70 that number would rise to perhaps 20%). The rest just don't pay taxes. Agricultural income is exempted from tax so close to 200 million farmers don't pay taxes (chances are 20-30% of them would be fake farmers who would have bought some agricultural land to get classified as farmers and to hide their other income)

That would explain it. Sounds similar to the neighbouring countries then, so no surprise it looks pretty much the same.

 

[ahsan17]

Th amount of folks turning religious is like not even 1%, this Hindutva ** is not bought by all. youth remains concentrated on cellphone and education. its not like India is turning into some religious craze and in comparison to Islam, its still way calmer as you would know.

Pakistan is known as a terrorist country around the world, regardless of your Osama excuse, its got no relevance, fame, pride and citizen's are hated everywhere,. People pretend to be Indian to save their ***, do you have any idea?

We beg beg beg, bow down more now

Here you are an Indian pretending to be a Pakistani. But largely your post is your own projection on your Indian experiences and opinions onto the citizens of other countries. Indians have too many myths in their mind about Pakistan, Pakistanis pretending to be Indian, or Pakistanis being hated everywhere and whatever else ******** they come up.

All of those are myths with no data backing them up. Even if you have 1-2 doing something like this, does not show a wide trend that you suggest.

 

[Afzal_K]

Here you are an Indian pretending to be a Pakistani. But largely your post is your own projection on your Indian experiences and opinions onto the citizens of other countries. Indians have too many myths in their mind about Pakistan, Pakistanis pretending to be Indian, or Pakistanis being hated everywhere and whatever else ******** they come up.

All of those are myths with no data backing them up. Even if you have 1-2 doing something like this, does not show a wide trend that you suggest.

Ok baccha - been here before u were even born. I am sorry I forgot to wear Pakistani flag and went on toe to toe with other posters, afterall, I have to have "Pakistani" type reply

think whatever u want

 

[Afzal_K]

You are over 45, and I have spent 25+ years in North America and never heard or came across any Pakistani calling himself Indian for any means. Reading some random stuff online and believing such rubbish isn't a smart way going about things. And again India case is very different, Pakistan was dragged into a proxy war for past 20 years and consequences of it has been dire. A few rich getting richer doesn't make things better off in India. Poverty and hunger index still remain highest there, corruption equally keeps worsening so its not all rosey. Yes India is making economic progress but it is not reflective in the general society, neither are there policies which will benefit the 2/3rd living under $2 a day there.

Same abt of time in NA - seems you havent lived near NY, NJ

 

[Afzal_K]

You are over 45, and I have spent 25+ years in North America and never heard or came across any Pakistani calling himself Indian for any means. Reading some random stuff online and believing such rubbish isn't a smart way going about things. And again India case is very different, Pakistan was dragged into a proxy war for past 20 years and consequences of it has been dire. A few rich getting richer doesn't make things better off in India. Poverty and hunger index still remain highest there, corruption equally keeps worsening so its not all rosey. Yes India is making economic progress but it is not reflective in the general society, neither are there policies which will benefit the 2/3rd living under $2 a day there.

1 Example

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-timessquare-backlash-idUSTRE64655Y20100507

 

[ahsan17]

1 Example

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-timessquare-backlash-idUSTRE64655Y20100507

1 example from 12 years ago, and you were suggesting something far more widespread. Lol.