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A drawn series at home against a second/third string New Zealand side, is it a wake-up call for Pakistan before the upcoming T20 World Cup?

The Bald Eagle

The Bald Eagle

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Pakistan cricket team just saved itself from an utter embarrassment today. Instead of 2-2 it would have been 1-3. So is this team that Mohammad Amir and Shadab Khan termed as the "World Cup winning side"?

If that is our performance at home then what awaits us in stores for the World Cup 2024.Are we still prepared for the upcoming T20 WC or just an underwhelming recent performances just exposed PCT badly before the mega tournament.

So is it a big wake up call for us?
 
Bro how many wake up calls do you need?

Last year it was, we are the worlds best team with 2 legendary openers + a goat kohli level batter followed by the top 3 greatest wicket keepers of all time and the worlds greatest fast bowling unit to grace the planet only after the wasim and waqar duo.

Only to get murdered in asia cup and wc.

Now this year it was, We are a great t20 team and Pakistan is a goat that can easily make it to the semi final led by the greatest psl captain of all time and that this NZ series would be a walk in the park to uh oh I think we over estimated ourselves.

This happens all the time. My sf for wc remain as is, Aus, Eng, NZ and India. Afghanistan has greater chances then this clown unit.
 
Bobby been woke.

He changed his batting style already.
 
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It's a timely wake up call to be honest. Pakistan just doesn't have the batting to be serious contenders. I would put them down as a nuisance side, a team that can be a danger to the bigger hitters (pun intended).

This Pakistan team looks like a weird mix of inexperienced players who aren't ready, and experienced players who are past their best.
 
If you can't wake up after losing against Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in the Asia Cup Final and during the 2022 WT20 (respectively), then I guess Babar and the PCB will never be able to wake up and smell the coffee.

We shouldn't expect anything less under the current leadership of both the team and the PCB.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro how many wake up calls do you need?

Last year it was, we are the worlds best team with 2 legendary openers + a goat kohli level batter followed by the top 3 greatest wicket keepers of all time and the worlds greatest fast bowling unit to grace the planet only after the wasim and waqar duo.

Only to get murdered in asia cup and wc.

Now this year it was, We are a great t20 team and Pakistan is a goat that can easily make it to the semi final led by the greatest psl captain of all time and that this NZ series would be a walk in the park to uh oh I think we over estimated ourselves.

This happens all the time. My sf for wc remain as is, Aus, Eng, NZ and India. Afghanistan has greater chances then this clown unit.
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Brother Australia, NZ and India cannot make the semifinals together. They will all be in the same Super 8 group.

Only 2 out of those 3 can qualify.

Wake up call, shake up call whatever. PAK will mostly make semis.

After that they need ridiculous amount of luck.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
The top players are returning to form at the right time.
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Bro not sure have you seen Amir being spanked tonight. For me Pakistan is still living dangerously just imagine how will we fare against India and other strong teams.
 
Our captain isn’t here to wake up.

He is only here to serve his personal best interests. He couldn’t give a flying manji about Pakistan

Guys like Mamoon are happy. That’s all that matters
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Brother Australia, NZ and India cannot make the semifinals together. They will all be in the same Super 8 group.

Only 2 out of those 3 can qualify.

Wake up call, shake up call whatever. PAK will mostly make semis.

After that they need ridiculous amount of luck.
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Thanks for being generous but don't know how Yuvi and other indian friends so confident of Pakistan side while PCT fans themselves are shivering.
 
Not really. I think the main players hit somewhat form. The bench players were tried but I still feel like they have more to prove. The bowling clicks with Amir, Shaheen, Naseem, Abrar, Shadab & Imad then Pakistan are a lot stronger. However the batting needs to deliver.

The pressure is always on Babar. It's time for Fakhar & Shadab to fire. Usman Khan needs to make the most of his opportunity. Saim is young but needs to fire.

Rizwan needs to up his game. 120-130 SR won't just cut it. He needs to massively up his game. Because he will likely start & play the entire tournament unless an injury occurs.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Thanks for being generous but don't know how Yuvi and other indian friends so confident of Pakistan side while PCT fans themselves are shivering.
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PAK can target weaknesses of teams too. Slowish Caribbean pitches will bring Shadab, Imad into the equation .

Also, this is a format where your weaknesses are hidden because you can get away with 4 over spells etc or even less with so many guys who can bowl - Ifti , Saim etc.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
PAK can target weaknesses of teams too. Slowish Caribbean pitches will bring Shadab, Imad into the equation .

Also, this is a format where your weaknesses are hidden because you can get away with 4 over spells etc or even less with so many guys who can bowl - Ifti , Saim etc.
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Should we go with Haris Rauf or Abbas Afridi. We just have too many options at the moment including Naseem Shah and Zaman
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Should we go with Haris Rauf or Abbas Afridi. We just have too options at the moment including Naseem Shah and Zaman
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There aren't that many options. Zaman Khan is a poor option imo. I think Pakistan missed a trick by not trying out Mohammad Ali in this series.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Should we go with Haris Rauf or Abbas Afridi. We just have too many options at the moment including Naseem Shah and Zaman
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Haris has been hard done honestly. He has a great record overall a few bad games sure. But overall he was performing. He suffered a lot in the word cup because Naseem or Amir weren’t there and it’s a different format.

Amir was a better t20 bowler but we don’t know now. Naseem hasn’t done too well in t20/ls but is back from injury so we don’t know if he’s the same. And in a lot of ways you might not need both Naseem and Amir in the same team.

I’d still probably go with Amir, Naseem, afridi though.
 
I hope I am wrong and they beat England in the next series but right now I don't see a semi final. Super 8 exit.

This home series should have been a whitewash against a NZ C team. All that shuffling of coaches last few years does not help. There has been no continuity.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
There aren't that many options. Zaman Khan is a poor option imo. I think Pakistan missed a trick by not trying out Mohammad Ali in this series.
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A good guy but tbh i don't trust him to do well in the internationals. The Ihsanullah injury a big setback for us.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Pakistan can surprise a few teams with a one off brilliance .

I can see them beating India or England or Aus. But then, they will lose to Afg and BD.
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That’s what I am saying as well. They have no business being world champions. They don’t deserve it at all.
 
It will still be the same in 2 years time Babar and Rizwan will still be opening and Iftikhar will still be the finisher.

T20 is a type of format where you can’t rule out any of the main teams but overall our team looks weaker than before and even then there was a lucky escape in the group stages which 9 times out of 10 wouldn’t happen.

That final appearance has again given a false perception that Pakistan is genuinely one of the best teams in T20s while no young players have been readied for this years tournament.
 
The wake up call is that Amir is finished and should not be on plane to the World Cup. He has been badly exposed against a heavily depleted New Zealand team.

But this was expected. I saw him in the PSL and he looked bang average and got outperformed by local pacers who are not even on PCB’a radar. His selection was a slap in the face of merit.

As far as Imad is concerned, Babar has done a good job of hiding him so far which means that he hasn’t been properly exposed yet. However, that day is not far.

Both Amir and Imad will be humiliated at the World Cup and they will retire again, proving that all the drama surrounding their comebacks was unnecessary and it was a waste of time.
 
Mamoon said:
The wake up call is that Amir is finished and should not be on plane to the World Cup. He has been badly exposed against a heavily depleted New Zealand team.

But this was expected. I saw him in the PSL and he looked bang average and got outperformed by local pacers who are not even on PCB’a radar. His selection was a slap in the face of merit.

As far as Imad is concerned, Babar has done a good job of hiding him so far which means that he hasn’t been properly exposed yet. However, that day is not far.

Both Amir and Imad will be humiliated at the World Cup and they will retire again, proving that all the drama surrounding their comebacks was unnecessary and it was a waste of time.
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How do you think your hero Babar will fare against first string attacks of top teams?
 
Rana said:
Like his hero Martin Odegaard does when Arsenal desperately need him to perform against a proper top flight Premier league or European side

Ghostegaard

Ghost E Azam
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But guys tbf Amir did appear off colored today i believe these abysmal performances by Pakistan players is not a false alarm.
 
It means Pak need more batsmen!

Too many bowling options!

Don't need an extra spinner in Abrar or Usama Mir.

Play the extra batsman in their place, especially someone who can hit the ball.

Imad can't hit sixes and someone else needs to be there at 7 a pure batsman.
 
Saim & Ifti need to be shown the door.

Unfortunately i cant think of suitable replacements.
 
T20 format isn't one for consistency. We are the only team who try to chase consistency in a bilateral series. The rest of the world doesn't care. They just want to develop the capacity of their players so that if a few perform then the team wins.

We are well in the mix for the world cup because we have the players who if they hit their stride can do the business and the conditions should suit us.
 
gazza619 said:
Saim & Ifti need to be shown the door.

Unfortunately i cant think of suitable replacements.
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Both stay for the world cup.

Too much time and effort has been invested in them.

Now trust them to eventually come good.

T20 world cups are so close together that there is no point panicking now. Just stick to the players we've backed and change after the WC now.
 
Babar Azam should not have been made the captain. He is still a selfish. Both as a batsman and a captain. Why he bowled Inad just one over!! He doesn't want Imad in his team I see.
 
I don't see this team reaching the semi under Babar,let alone win the cup
 
Pakistan actually overachieved against this Kiwi C Team. Their win yesterday was a fluke as New Zealand fumbled the last couple overs.

Against a proper team, it’s hard to imagine this team winning more than a match or two in the World Cup.

The fundamental problem with this team is both the construction of the team and the composition of the playing XI. Babar as an opener is guaranteed to waste the batting power play. He’s not made to be an opener. Besides, there are at least 5-6 players in the team that have no business being in the team.

Overall, not unexpected situation. This is Pakistan cricket, after all, mediocrity reigns supreme.
 
We should have won this series 3-1.

Inexperience caused the 2 runouts, otherwise 11 off the over with 2 wickets is nothing.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's a timely wake up call to be honest. Pakistan just doesn't have the batting to be serious contenders. I would put them down as a nuisance side, a team that can be a danger to the bigger hitters (pun intended).

This Pakistan team looks like a weird mix of inexperienced players who aren't ready, and experienced players who are past their best.
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Don't worry, we win these games but come WC you always have our number.
 
Mamoon said:
The wake up call is that Amir is finished and should not be on plane to the World Cup. He has been badly exposed against a heavily depleted New Zealand team.

But this was expected. I saw him in the PSL and he looked bang average and got outperformed by local pacers who are not even on PCB’a radar. His selection was a slap in the face of merit.

As far as Imad is concerned, Babar has done a good job of hiding him so far which means that he hasn’t been properly exposed yet. However, that day is not far.

Both Amir and Imad will be humiliated at the World Cup and they will retire again, proving that all the drama surrounding their comebacks was unnecessary and it was a waste of time.
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Seifert took him to the cleaners. Imagine a top T20 player.
 
Pakistan is in a relatively easy group. Luckily Afghanistan is not in our group!

Pak will not beat India with this team. Of course, anything is possible, but Pak should still beat Ireland, Canada and USA (will be mostly comprised of local desis) and reach Super-8.

5 or 6 teams are superior to us in batting. Hence, barring a miracle, do not see Pakistan making the top 4.
 
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Not scoring heavy runs to threaten the top sides. Amir is not the bowler he was. Is he going to the WC? We can have as many wake up calls as needed. Until there are better options this is the best eleven we have it seems. As I know nothing of the Pak domestic scene you guy's will have to educate me if better players are available. The youngster Umar Akmal or Asif Ali!!?:p
 
Mamoon said:
The wake up call is that Amir is finished and should not be on plane to the World Cup. He has been badly exposed against a heavily depleted New Zealand team.

But this was expected. I saw him in the PSL and he looked bang average and got outperformed by local pacers who are not even on PCB’a radar. His selection was a slap in the face of merit.

As far as Imad is concerned, Babar has done a good job of hiding him so far which means that he hasn’t been properly exposed yet. However, that day is not far.

Both Amir and Imad will be humiliated at the World Cup and they will retire again, proving that all the drama surrounding their comebacks was unnecessary and it was a waste of time.
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Brother let imad and Amir rest.

As I said it ain't a big deal,

The whole team is medicore, that's a fact, a fact that you admitted to in 2022
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
Both stay for the world cup.

Too much time and effort has been invested in them.

Now trust them to eventually come good.

T20 world cups are so close together that there is no point panicking now. Just stick to the players we've backed and change after the WC now.
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Chacha has been around for 4 years and you even agreed that he's shown nothing when I addressed you on it. You verbatim agreed.

How many years do you want for him to prove himself?
 
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I still believe that we will give any team a run for their money on the slow pitches of the Carribean.. Imad, Shadab, Usama and Saim will not be easy to play and even the fast bowlers will be a handful..

I am more fearful of the fact that New York might be a flat wicket. One loss to India and an upset by Ireland could push us to the brink in the first round..
 
These are the best players we have. It's all about finding form, confidence and getting into rhythm at the right time.
 
This series is definitely a wake-up call for many. Starting with Saim, he was all hyped and his form was also fine in PSL but he proved to be a hack as well. USMAN, he was also a failure till now ( will need more chances though). Iftikhar also failed once again. Babar still living in 90s like scoring 180 is fine for him.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Bro not sure have you seen Amir being spanked tonight. For me Pakistan is still living dangerously just imagine how will we fare against India and other strong teams.
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Babar and Shaheen are the top Pakistan players. This series has proved it.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's a timely wake up call to be honest. Pakistan just doesn't have the batting to be serious contenders. I would put them down as a nuisance side, a team that can be a danger to the bigger hitters (pun intended).

This Pakistan team looks like a weird mix of inexperienced players who aren't ready, and experienced players who are past their best.
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To give respect where it's due, still a top notch bowling unit, one of the few who can curb batsmen going berserk, due to the variety and experience of Pakistan bowlers.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
How do you think your hero Babar will fare against first string attacks of top teams?
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Babar was the top scorer in the 2021 edition and he wasn’t very good in 2022.

It is not usual for a batsman of his quality to not do so well in back to back tournaments in the same format. I expected Babar to have a very good tournament this time around.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, Pakistan made the final in 2022 with Babar as captain and without Amir and Imad.

Now that the two “match winners” have been added to the squad, Pakistan must do better this time otherwise it will be a waste of time.

Doing better would mean winning the World Cup since Pakistan finished runners up last time.

So if Amir and Imad don’t fire Pakistan to the trophy this time, they would have zero impact on the team’s results and it will be a waste of time.
 
AZulfi said:
Pakistan is in a relatively easy group. Luckily Afghanistan is not in our group!

Pak will not beat India with this team. Of course, anything is possible, but Pak should still beat Ireland, Canada and USA (will be mostly comprised of local desis) and reach Super-8.

5 or 6 teams are superior to us in batting. Hence, barring a miracle, do not see Pakistan making the top 4.
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I actually think we wnt make it out of the 1st group..the groups are so easy that i think a defeat against ireland which is very very likely will be the end as ireland will beat everybody else apart from india
 
Mamoon said:
Babar was the top scorer in the 2021 edition and he wasn’t very good in 2022.

It is not usual for a batsman of his quality to not do so well in back to back tournaments in the same format. I expected Babar to have a very good tournament this time around.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, Pakistan made the final in 2022 with Babar as captain and without Amir and Imad.

Now that the two “match winners” have been added to the squad, Pakistan must do better this time otherwise it will be a waste of time.

Doing better would mean winning the World Cup since Pakistan finished runners up last time.

So if Amir and Imad don’t fire Pakistan to the trophy this time, they would have zero impact on the team’s results and it will be a waste of time.
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That's a horrible analogy. First of Amir has 1 dub over babar in 2009 and babar, imad, Amir were part of the 2017 set up that won the tournament.

B) Secondly Winning or losing or reaching finals have nothing to do with certain team members being added or not, unless you're a strong ATG team like 2023 India or classic Australia, getting into finals require alot of luck along with skill, something you yourself claimed about 2022 and I can have @topspin Fetch the screenshots about your claims made in 2022.

In 2022 wc, SA had crushed Zimbabwe but rain and drs allowed to gain 1 point each even though Zimbabwe was not deserving of said point, its what allowed Nedtherlands to beat sa and that's sadly what Pakistan were banking on aka a minnow team helping them cross. To semi final where they managed to play one good game.

Had rain not intervened Pakistan wouldn't qualify same way they wouldn't have done so I'm 1992.

Lastly 2022 was a different format, due to covid the tournament was shortened, in order to get into knockouts Pakistan had to come top 2 in a group of SA, India, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Nedtherlands, so logically 2 of them are minnows anyway. This tournament has a super 8 stage which makes it more difficult.

Their various outside factors in any tournament and formats are vastly different this time around, another factor is any team can collapse even the best of teams, An all star NZ team marked Pakistan 4-1 in Jan and this team did not have imad or Amir, yet they lost 1 game due to NZ collapse.

You're making extremely disappointing and bad arguments Mamoon and I expected someone who has experience of over 100K comments to do better. It's not as simple as If Pakistan reached without 2 players them they shpuld win, its not a linear proposition as you're making it out to be.

C) Lastly: Being a match winner doesn't mean you automatically win, it means these 2 are capable of match winning performances, Amir showcased in 2 tournaments, but when you have losers like chacha in the team it hinders the combination.

Imad and Amir are 2 match winners but compare that to India or Australia where 90% of the unit is a match winner, so these 2 alone don't add it enough. You'll have to create 7 Imad's and 5 amir's in order to logically stand a chance.

Don't bring up such weak arguments again, you've gone from smacking heddie level posters to becoming one yourself.
 
Mamoon said:
Babar was the top scorer in the 2021 edition and he wasn’t very good in 2022.

It is not usual for a batsman of his quality to not do so well in back to back tournaments in the same format. I expected Babar to have a very good tournament this time around.

As far as Amir and Imad are concerned, Pakistan made the final in 2022 with Babar as captain and without Amir and Imad.

Now that the two “match winners” have been added to the squad, Pakistan must do better this time otherwise it will be a waste of time.

Doing better would mean winning the World Cup since Pakistan finished runners up last time.

So if Amir and Imad don’t fire Pakistan to the trophy this time, they would have zero impact on the team’s results and it will be a waste of time.
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I believe Amir is still an effective bowler given his experience, fierce attitude on ground and clever tricks.

Imad on the other hand needs to show he can be as effective with the new ball in T20Is as he was doing 2017-2019 period. Otherwise he's not much of use in the XI in most matches.
 
I hope Gary Kirsten puts some sense into this team. Babar and Rizwan both need to come down the order.. 4 and 5 to be precise to give our middle order some sort of semblance.. we can have explosive openers.. i have no faith in saim but aint got no choice so fakhar and saim can open.. we needed to experiment this in NZ series.. so far we are not learning from our mistakes. We had weakest middle order in 2022 and we paid the price with giving up trophy to England just because we had non sense tullers after shan masood..we needed to cross 150 after being 114/4 in 15... and then shadab the greatest batsman thinks we needed 180 and starts slogging to collapse
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
I hope Gary Kirsten puts some sense into this team. Babar and Rizwan both need to come down the order.. 4 and 5 to be precise to give our middle order some sort of semblance.. we can have explosive openers.. i have no faith in saim but aint got no choice so fakhar and saim can open.. we needed to experiment this in NZ series.. so far we are not learning from our mistakes. We had weakest middle order in 2022 and we paid the price with giving up trophy to England just because we had non sense tullers after shan masood..we needed to cross 150 after being 114/4 in 15... and then shadab the greatest batsman thinks we needed 180 and starts slogging to collapse
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You’ve got your expectations too high

Going by recent game tactics at Gujarat. Babar most certainly will be opening, and Rizwan most likely will open with him.

The Gujarat side is very similar to the Pakistan side without Rashid Khan and Noor Ahmed basically. Plus missing a solidified finisher like Miller.

They are one of the weakest batting units in the tournament even with a batter like Gill
 
Lol, as fans of the Pakistan cricket team, we are always worried after each and every series.
 
shortbread said:
To give respect where it's due, still a top notch bowling unit, one of the few who can curb batsmen going berserk, due to the variety and experience of Pakistan bowlers.
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It's not the bowling I am concerned about, it's the usual weakness of the batting which still looks short of big hitters who are technically savvy.
 
Rana said:
You’ve got your expectations too high

Going by recent game tactics at Gujarat. Babar most certainly will be opening, and Rizwan most likely will open with him.

The Gujarat side is very similar to the Pakistan side without Rashid Khan and Noor Ahmed basically. Plus missing a solidified finisher like Miller.

They are one of the weakest batting units in the tournament even with a batter like Gill
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Watching Gujarat bat today giving me babar/riz vibes 😂😂 you are spot on
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Watching Gujarat bat today giving me babar/riz vibes 😂😂 you are spot on
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I’ve been watching them since I got the hint he will become the next head coach

They are a dead boring side who are decent chasers, but for that they still rely on fluke performances
 
mominsaigol said:
B) Secondly Winning or losing or reaching finals have nothing to do with certain team members being added or not, unless you're a strong ATG team like 2023 India or classic Australia, getting into finals require alot of luck along with skill, something you yourself claimed about 2022 and I can have @topspin Fetch the screenshots about your claims made in 2022.

In 2022 wc, SA had crushed Zimbabwe but rain and drs allowed to gain 1 point each even though Zimbabwe was not deserving of said point, its what allowed Nedtherlands to beat sa and that's sadly what Pakistan were banking on aka a minnow team helping them cross. To semi final where they managed to play one good game.

Had rain not intervened Pakistan wouldn't qualify same way they wouldn't have done so I'm 1992.

Lastly 2022 was a different format, due to covid the tournament was shortened, in order to get into knockouts Pakistan had to come top 2 in a group of SA, India, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Nedtherlands, so logically 2 of them are minnows anyway. This tournament has a super 8 stage which makes it more difficult.

Their various outside factors in any tournament and formats are vastly different this time around, another factor is any team can collapse even the best of teams, An all star NZ team marked Pakistan 4-1 in Jan and this team did not have imad or Amir, yet they lost 1 game due to NZ collapse.

You're making extremely disappointing and bad arguments Mamoon and I expected someone who has experience of over 100K comments to do better. It's not as simple as If Pakistan reached without 2 players them they shpuld win, its not a linear proposition as you're making it out to be.

C) Lastly: Being a match winner doesn't mean you automatically win, it means these 2 are capable of match winning performances, Amir showcased in 2 tournaments, but when you have losers like chacha in the team it hinders the combination.

Imad and Amir are 2 match winners but compare that to India or Australia where 90% of the unit is a match winner, so these 2 alone don't add it enough. You'll have to create 7 Imad's and 5 amir's in order to logically stand a chance.

Don't bring up such weak arguments again, you've gone from smacking heddie level posters to becoming one yourself.
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That is nonsense. However, posters like you and others also have a toxic agenda against Babar. He is far better than what you guys give him credit for and he is far more value to Pakistan cricket than Imad and Amir (at least in 2024 anyway).

So I’m not like them nor am I like you.

Your wrote a lot but you said nothing. All you made were a lot of excuses and ifs and buts to explain why Pakistan didn’t deserve to play the final in 2022.

I also think Pakistan didn’t deserve to play the final, but they did. You don’t always get what you deserve in life. Sometimes you get more, sometimes you get less.

Pakistan made the final last time with Babar as captain and with Iftikhar and all the others player who will apparently hold Pakistan back this time in the team as well.

This is an uncomfortable reality for those who keep pushing the Amir and Imad agenda and how Pakistan need both to be successful.

If the last T20 World Cup wasn’t a success, it would have been much easier for Amir and Imad fans to peddle the narrative that their inclusion in the team had an impact on the performance of Pakistan.

Now the uncomfortable reality is that Pakistan made the final last time around and when they fall short this time, we will see a lot of desperate excuses this time to deflect attention away from the reality that the returns of Amir and Imad didn’t have an impact on the team.

Babar’s captaincy was worse this time, his batting was worse this time, Iftikhar and other players who are easy targets were worse this time, Pakistan didn’t get lucky like they did in 2022, the format was less forgiving etc.

We will keep hearing such excuses.
 
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RidiculousMan said:
I believe Amir is still an effective bowler given his experience, fierce attitude on ground and clever tricks.
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We didn’t see any of that in the PSL and by the looks of it, he didn’t display any of those characteristics vs New Zealand D either.

He got smashed by a player who will not be playing for New Zealand in the World Cup and who was not deemed good enough for the IPL either. How will Amir fare vs the top T20 batsmen in the world?
 
gazza619 said:
Saim & Ifti need to be shown the door.

Unfortunately i cant think of suitable replacements.
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Gazza, what happened? I thought you were one of his biggest fans and invested in Iftimania.
 
Mamoon said:
So I’m not like them nor am I like you.

Your wrote a lot but you said nothing. All you made were a lot of excuses and ifs and buts to explain why Pakistan didn’t deserve to play the final in 2022.

I also think Pakistan didn’t deserve to play the final, but they did. You don’t always get what you deserve in life. Sometimes you get more, sometimes you get less.

Pakistan made the final last time with Babar as captain and with Iftikhar and all the others player who will apparently hold Pakistan back this time in the team as well.

This is an uncomfortable reality for those who keep pushing the Amir and Imad agenda and how Pakistan need both to be successful.

If the last T20 World Cup wasn’t a success, it would have been much easier for Amir and Imad fans to peddle the narrative that their inclusion in the team had an impact on the performance of Pakistan.

Now the uncomfortable reality is that Pakistan made the final last time around and when they fall short this time, we will see a lot of desperate excuses this time to deflect attention away from the reality that the returns of Amir and Imad didn’t have an impact on the team.

Babar’s captaincy was worse this time, his batting was worse this time, Iftikhar and other players who are easy targets were worse this time, Pakistan didn’t get lucky like they did in 2022, the format was less forgiving etc.

We will keep hearing such excuses.
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Infact i even verbatim asked you if you were claiming world class for Pakistan standards or world class across the entire planet and you were adamant on him being wc across the planet. However later @Rana ended up sarcastically saying "Just how fast the night changes" Because you doubled back and started claiming Babar now warms the bench of Indian teams but prior were adamant on him getting in.

Now the uncomfortable reality is that Pakistan made the final last time around and when they fall short this time, we will see a lot of desperate excuses this time to deflect attention away from the reality that the returns of Amir and Imad didn’t have an impact on the team.

Babar’s captaincy was worse this time, his batting was worse this time, Iftikhar and other players who are easy targets were worse this time, Pakistan didn’t get lucky like they did in 2022, the format was less forgiving etc.

We will keep hearing such excuses.

None of these are excuses. Their factual valid arguments about why no 2 tournaments are the same, the agenda for imad and Amir is from you, you not willing to accept certain arguments despite being the man who first made said arguments in 2022 doesn't mean anything. And lastly don't bring up toxic agendas against Babar to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kroll said:
Gazza, what happened? I thought you were one of his biggest fans and invested in Iftimania.
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Oh yeah I remember he advocated for chacha being a no 4, I told him no lol, and was adamant.

Never understood why someone who can't read wrist spin and has slow reflexes against pacers be considered a no 4.

He's only good for medium 125kph bashing lol.
 
The reality is that this Pakistan team needs batsmen like Babar and Rizwan.

The alternatives are far worse and the only solution is to have explosive batsmen bat around Babar and Rizwan to give the team any chance at putting up a decent score.

Saim Ayub will eventually come good and so will Usman. But Iftikhar, Shadab, Imad as batsmen are literally passengers in the team that will always hold you down. We need to replace these guys with Asif, Muhammad Haris and potentially Niazi.

After that, as far as batting is concerned, you just hope for the best. Pakistan has never been a batting side and likely won’t be in the next 20 years. This is the only formula that is going to work.
 
mominsaigol said:
That's a horrible analogy. First of Amir has 1 dub over babar in 2009 and babar, imad, Amir were part of the 2017 set up that won the tournament.

B) Secondly Winning or losing or reaching finals have nothing to do with certain team members being added or not, unless you're a strong ATG team like 2023 India or classic Australia, getting into finals require alot of luck along with skill, something you yourself claimed about 2022 and I can have @topspin Fetch the screenshots about your claims made in 2022.

In 2022 wc, SA had crushed Zimbabwe but rain and drs allowed to gain 1 point each even though Zimbabwe was not deserving of said point, its what allowed Nedtherlands to beat sa and that's sadly what Pakistan were banking on aka a minnow team helping them cross. To semi final where they managed to play one good game.

Had rain not intervened Pakistan wouldn't qualify same way they wouldn't have done so I'm 1992.

Lastly 2022 was a different format, due to covid the tournament was shortened, in order to get into knockouts Pakistan had to come top 2 in a group of SA, India, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Nedtherlands, so logically 2 of them are minnows anyway. This tournament has a super 8 stage which makes it more difficult.

Their various outside factors in any tournament and formats are vastly different this time around, another factor is any team can collapse even the best of teams, An all star NZ team marked Pakistan 4-1 in Jan and this team did not have imad or Amir, yet they lost 1 game due to NZ collapse.

You're making extremely disappointing and bad arguments Mamoon and I expected someone who has experience of over 100K comments to do better. It's not as simple as If Pakistan reached without 2 players them they shpuld win, its not a linear proposition as you're making it out to be.

C) Lastly: Being a match winner doesn't mean you automatically win, it means these 2 are capable of match winning performances, Amir showcased in 2 tournaments, but when you have losers like chacha in the team it hinders the combination.

Imad and Amir are 2 match winners but compare that to India or Australia where 90% of the unit is a match winner, so these 2 alone don't add it enough. You'll have to create 7 Imad's and 5 amir's in order to logically stand a chance.

Don't bring up such weak arguments again, you've gone from smacking heddie level posters to becoming one yourself.
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How many man of the matches do these two players have that we need 11 of them now?
 
also what did amir showcase?. He was instrumental in the ct final and i will always be grateful for that but other than that he did not do much . and he had a mediocre 2009 wc.
 
MHN1293 said:
How many man of the matches do these two players have that we need 11 of them now?
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You took the 11 way too literally.

Amir has proven he can win games in 2 tournaments. Imad has proven he's clutch under pressure 2019 Afghanistan game being a massive example.

Meanwhile our other lower order bats like shadab and chacha has proven to be useless. Shadab tbf has proven he's clutch in t20 only tbf. Chacha on the other hand is the worst player to represent Pakistan since asif Ali, Kushdil and faheem ashraf, 3 players in the misbah regime.

Amir in 2009 and 2017 proved to be a tournaments bowler although he's regressed.

We need a 2009 like Amir bowlers and 5 of em, be it spin or pace.

And we need lower order players like imad who can keep their nerves and aren't serial checkers as well as being able to up the ante and strike at over 200SR when needed.
 
mominsaigol said:
You took the 11 way too literally.

Amir has proven he can win games in 2 tournaments. Imad has proven he's clutch under pressure 2019 Afghanistan game being a massive example.

Meanwhile our other lower order bats like shadab and chacha has proven to be useless. Shadab tbf has proven he's clutch in t20 only tbf. Chacha on the other hand is the worst player to represent Pakistan since asif Ali, Kushdil and faheem ashraf, 3 players in the misbah regime.

Amir in 2009 and 2017 proved to be a tournaments bowler although he's regressed.

We need a 2009 like Amir bowlers and 5 of em, be it spin or pace.

And we need lower order players like imad who can keep their nerves and aren't serial checkers as well as being able to up the ante and strike at over 200SR when needed.
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Come on man amir wasnt even among the top 10 or top 15 best bowlers in 2009 wc. He was carried in 2009 by afridi and gul and by hasan ali and junaid khan in 2017. As for imad he is reliable with the bat but i dont think he can go at 200 when needed. but he is better than chacha all day everyday
 
Kroll said:
Gazza, what happened? I thought you were one of his biggest fans and invested in Iftimania.
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Unfortunately Ifti is feeling insecure. He comes in and takes 10 balls for his first 9 runs. That is just too slow. I know why he is doing it. The team is made up of selfish players and Ifti is just following the same tempo. I was a fan of Iftimania but I think it may be time to move on.
 
gazza619 said:
Unfortunately Ifti is feeling insecure. He comes in and takes 10 balls for his first 9 runs. That is just too slow. I know why he is doing it. The team is made up of selfish players and Ifti is just following the same tempo. I was a fan of Iftimania but I think it may be time to move on.
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Can you list the players who in your honest opinion are selfish?
 
We did not play our best lineups at all. We also played closer to our Pakistan A squad/team.

Rizwan I believe played 1 in 4 games.
Naseem played 1 in 4 games.
SSA played in 2 games.
Amir played in 2 games.
Fakhar played in 2 games.

Naseem, SSA and Amir only played in 1 game together.

To me our real lineup is quite good.

Babar
Saim/Usman
Rizwan
Fakhar
Ifti/Azam
Shadab
Imad
Amir
Shaheen
Naseem
+ 1 spin option between Usama Mir/Abrar etc.

This was not our best lineups, we were constantly making changes to shuffle, to get many players reps and looks. It was wise, but at some point before the WC we should strive for some more continuity.
 
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