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A humiliating defeat at home for India

Let me put an asterisk on this England win. We were missing Jadeja and Shami here. :inti

Not trying to trigger anyone, but Kohli is so erratic with his selections that he might have gone with the same 11 even if they had been available.
 
Who was Michael Clarke who ran through way better spin players in Mumbai in 2004? Or Jason Krejza who took 12 wickets in Nagpur in 2008? Many average and part-time spinners have made merry on deteriorating Indian pitches and Bess and Leach won’t be the last.

But the Srilankan team who whitewashed Pakistan then was a total minnow. They were fresh after a humiliating 3-0 (2 of them being inning losses) against the likes of Hardik Pandya at their own home.

You should ask this question to those "brilliant" players of spin why they failed against clarke. But that pitch too was pathetic iirc, the match finished in 2.5 days.
Correct me if i am wrong but didnt Krejza gave away over 200 runs in that match?

Even a minnow Srilankan team has better spinners than number 1 team England. Tell me you disagree.
 
Jadeja yes, Shami no.

I agree. Jadeja is pretty good at home and always a handy bat. Shami is decent but he is not going to be a game changer v England.

Back on topic, to lose a home test match by 227 runs, against an inexperienced England side, a number of players touring India for the first time, many of these guys facing bubble fatigue is one of the worst, if not THE worst home loss of any test side. India also happens to be ranked in the top 3 and they claimed to be unstoppable at home.

Arrogance is a dangerous conceit.
 
Possibilities ..

EtxY9AWVkAAiE23

Rankings stand as:

1. Eng
2. NZ
3. Aus
4. India

This is from the points table...although India apparently have 430 points which should put them second. Why are they ranked 4?
 
This is a big defeat for India but not sure its humiliating given the fact that the series is still on the line and also the WTC qualifying is still acheivable

IMO defeats are humiliating when there is something very big on line like losing a WC Final being the number one side of the tournament or losing the decider match in a series at home

but nothing of this sort happened with this defeat so not sure in what way this defeat can be humiliating to India because there are still three matches left in the series which will probably have a bigger stakes and could be actually be humiliating to India if they lose the series in a decider test match
 
England are the best test side in the world at the moment followed by New Zealand and then comes India at 3rd.

Leach and Bess are very good spinners, they are very disciplined and often get the job done. Archer's pace can make a difference in any conditions, Anderson is one of the all time greats, and Stokes is the best all rounder in the world right now.

I agree on England's top 3 not being good... However they bat deep and Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler form a very formidable middle order.

Australia was a very weak team when it comes to their batting and are probably on their way down, I agree our wins there were good and not great, but to call this English team weak is just ridiculous.
 
I am glad Pakistani fans have finally found their voice after their celebrations in Adelaide blew in their faces.

The last few weeks was hell for them. This win by England and the whitewash of South Africa has raised their spirits again.
Well done Pakistan fans, is banday ki full jalayi hui tum sab ne :)))
 
No doubt in my mind that India will bounce back but this was without any doubt a humiliating defeat, maybe India should remove Kohli as a test captain because India plays a lot better under other captains.
 
The imagery is :))

Whats wrong with this guy mamoon? Only he could come up with this level of rubbish. It does not matter what position your own team is in (the team you support) you can still comment or be critical of other teams as a fan or there would be no point in watching any other teams etc. Its clear he is but hurt.
 
No doubt in my mind that India will bounce back but this was without any doubt a humiliating defeat, maybe India should remove Kohli as a test captain because India plays a lot better under other captains.

Depends what you mean by humiliating? Its more like a shock defeat than humiliating in my book.
 
36 all out was humiliation... this was somewat less

1 bad loss doesnt make the team bad...
 
This thread is unfair.

England frequently win Test series in India.

In the time I’ve been watching there has been:

1976-77
1984-85
2012-13

The same England team which lost 3-0 to Pakistan in 2011-12 won 2-1 in India a year later.

It’s just how things are. English batsmen are used to low bounce, and England has produced superior spinners to India throughout history:

Jim Laker is the GOAT off-spinner.
Derek Underwood is the GOAT slow left-armer.
 
Eng is to India what Pak was to Eng..

Eng find ways to win in India despite losing to SL and Pak (UAE or Pak)

similarly Pak gets outplayed in SA and Aus but find ways to win-draw in England

maybe its history , confidence, comfort but they make it happen one way or the other.
 
Depends what you mean by humiliating? Its more like a shock defeat than humiliating in my book.

Losing at home by more than 200 runs is certainly humiliating sure you can classify it as a shock defeat if India wins all the remaining matches.
 
I did post before the match that Anderson and Broad have both been brilliant in the UAE, and I would rather have them in Asia than the Indian quicks.
 
Yeah India should bounce back and win against England at home.
That is the minimum they can do with England rotating their already not so strong team for Asian conditions.

Cue the next couple of thread titles:

"India got lucky with an England team rotating Anderson and Buttler"

"What would the series result be if England were not exhausted after non-stop touring in a bubble?"

:batman:
 
This thread is unfair.

England frequently win Test series in India.

In the time I’ve been watching there has been:

1976-77
1984-85
2012-13

The same England team which lost 3-0 to Pakistan in 2011-12 won 2-1 in India a year later.

It’s just how things are. English batsmen are used to low bounce, and England has produced superior spinners to India throughout history:

Jim Laker is the GOAT off-spinner.
Derek Underwood is the GOAT slow left-armer.

You just stirred up the hornets' nest :P

PS: None of English spinners chucked "#elitehonesthonesty" :))
 
Mamoon defending his beloved india after losing at home. Humilation for both him and indian team.
 
You just stirred up the hornets' nest :P

PS: None of English spinners chucked "#elitehonesthonesty" :))
I left out both Tony Lock and Murali because I consider both to be proven chuckers.

Lock’s Test record was clearly superior to Bedi, but Bedi was not a chucker and Lock was.
 
Losing at home by more than 200 runs is certainly humiliating sure you can classify it as a shock defeat if India wins all the remaining matches.

But its only one match in a series of 4, You can lose one match does not mean its humiliating
 
Hard luck to India, best of luck for the next one. Don’t worry it’s only the first test.
 
Eng is to India what Pak was to Eng..

Eng find ways to win in India despite losing to SL and Pak (UAE or Pak)

similarly Pak gets outplayed in SA and Aus but find ways to win-draw in England

maybe its history , confidence, comfort but they make it happen one way or the other.

Its not strictly true.. India have beaten India more often than not at home.
 
Speaking too soon.

India tend to come back strongly,this is a different type of Indian team.

Should show respect to where it is deserved.......

England still had a few studs who all performed but can they do that 100% of the time in this series-I doubt it.

India will still win the series

I agree. India needed this wake up call.
 
Although not humiliating, it was a very convincing and significant win. Lots of positives for England and it remains to be seen if they can take this forward for the series.
 
You should ask this question to those "brilliant" players of spin why they failed against clarke. But that pitch too was pathetic iirc, the match finished in 2.5 days.
Correct me if i am wrong but didnt Krejza gave away over 200 runs in that match?

Even a minnow Srilankan team has better spinners than number 1 team England. Tell me you disagree.
Because they are one-off performances. Agarkar has a 6/41 in Australia against an ATG batting line up and won the test for us in Australia which neither Shoaib or Wasim could do ever in their career. Does that make Agarkar a better bowler than Shoaib and Wasim? Absolutely No. And should ATG Australian lineup be sorry that they lost their wickets for cheap against Agarkar at home? No, because such things happen in sports. Same here. India only need to be worried if they continue to bowl like this throughout the series.
 
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Tbh this is not a humiliation, maybe for the arm chair fans who ain’t got a clue about test cricket that were doing Bhangra yesterday when england carried on batting, I don’t want to say I told you so, but England is a very analytical data driven team, they had their own plans and backed themselves regardless of what India was doing, they had a method they trusted and it worked for them.

It looks like India thought this would be a walk in the park , and even some were talking about India going for the win. This England team is no joke in all formats, and we could be in for a surprise at the end of the series if India don’t get serious, well played joe root and England.
 
The big lesson for India: if they lose any of the next three Tests they cannot reach the World Test Championship Final.
 
Dont get the big triumphalism. yes its a great win but if England win the majority of Tests then and only then can you say India were humiliated. I'm catching up on the highlights as Ive only seen some sessions etc due to work and the time. Ive got to say the fielding was very poor. Some awful easy runs given to help England rotate when under pressure and also giving away boundaries when your bowler has bowled five dots.

Also the cuptaany left much to be desired. And i felt Nadeem looked very innocuous. Same with Sundar.

I dont know about my Indian colleagues but I felt there werent any plans to deal with Sibley and Root.

With regards to this being the worst England team to tour Asia. I would disagree. This is a tight fighting unit that has a good well drilled captain who is on a winning streak. they have two very good spinners as shows. Bess the youngster and leech the first class veteran. Bess is a real thinking cricketer and seems like a born cricket fan.

India really should have got Sibley out but he is proving to be a resilient character and thats what you expect from English openers. They have a tradition of producing great openers.

Finally India will look to come back in the next match. I expect some harder cricket but England have match winners throughout their team. They will fight to the end. Cna India handle the pressure? Im not sure cuptaan sahib is up for it at the moment.
 
Nope. 1 against India in India, 2 against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka, 3 against South Africa in South Africa. There is really no legitimate way to play down this achievement (for once!) :)

Agree.

England has been brilliant in this match from ball 1.
 
Need to stop with the hyperbole. Winning and losing is part of the game and not every defeat is a humilation. England are not a minnow side and while India were favourites they were not complete underdogs.

Humiliating defeats are Bangladesh recent defeat and Australia's defeat to India where the over whelming favourites got rolled over by sides that were injury ravaged and complete underdogs.
 
Need to stop with the hyperbole. Winning and losing is part of the game and not every defeat is a humilation. England are not a minnow side and while India were favourites they were not complete underdogs.

Humiliating defeats are Bangladesh recent defeat and Australia's defeat to India where the over whelming favourites got rolled over by sides that were injury ravaged and complete underdogs.

No Australia defeat was not humiliating if this one is not.. that would be double standards. India v Australia have always been competitive in Australia due to India's batting always clicking on flat tracks (bounce have been negotiated well) plus they also won the last series and was 1-1 going into the last test match. Compare this to England who lost comprehensibly last time out and India coming from such a high...
 
I am glad Pakistani fans have finally found their voice after their celebrations in Adelaide blew in their faces.

The last few weeks was hell for them. This win by England and the whitewash of South Africa has raised their spirits again.

Come on yaar. You enjoy rubbing it in when Pakistan team gets beaten so I think this thread title is probably dedicated to you not Indian fans themselves.

So for posterity sake let's spell it out:

Indian fans (Pakistani version) have been brought down to earth by this result and they totally DESERVE this humiliation.
 
If Pakistan lost a home test against this english team and that too in that fashion, I will be completely ashamed.

I mean, this England team is very very weak in every department of the game. You can't loose a test in Asia to Dominic Bess-Jack Leach, read the names again. This is probably the worst spin bowling pair of the decade to tour an asian country.

Then you have a top order of : Burns, Sibley, Lawrence. I really like English cricket but sorry, this is not a top order to play test cricket in Asia. Again, it's hand down the worst top three sent by any SENA team over the last decade.

No need to even talk about Archer and Pope playing their first asian test, Buttler not being good against spin, Stokes playing competitive cricket after 6 months etc...

That is the most humiliating home defeat of recent times.

Well done team India,
Thanks again.

What are you smoking? This is far from a weak English team.

Yes it is a bad defeat for India....but vs a good Eng side.

This thread might come back to haunt you if Ind do stage a comeback.
 
Oh yes....another thread that can be bumped into oblivion in the coming weeks.

Some people never learn do they? :kp
 
over the last few years, i have not watched much of india playing at home. and if this match is anything to go by, it seems i have not missed much. results, which are so dependent on toss almost take the thrill out of the game. plus this english team seems to have learnt lesson from failures of past teams and gotten good preparation by going to sl and getting a gentle introduction to conditions - a strategy adapted by pak when playing in england. whereas previous english teams would crumble after first inning, this team is more battle-hardened due to sl tour.

the contrast in attitude between aussies and english team cannot be different. australians thinks they are gods gift to south asia when they tour the region. india is only palatable to them because of $$$. english team otoh genuinely wants to compete which explains their frequent tours to uae and tour to sl despite covid. the skills anderson showed in this match were refined in dubai and abu dhabi. australian team, despite being more talented than english team will not be able to compete it india. aussies got upended by one of the weakest pakistani attacks ever and were humiliated during the last sl tour because they have no desire to compete in difficult conditions. such attitude was exactly opposite of that displayed by border and his men. it was this hard work which translated into decades of success. but that era is now over.

this does not mean that england will win the series. the team is too dependent on root who is benefitting from conditions given his ability against spin. his performance at home was suffering because he kept getting out in slips while trying to play aggressively. no such danger here given the pitches. if he gets out, onus will be on stokes and he is a big question mark given his lack of recent playing time.

as for india, i have seen this script many times previously. conditions will produce gains at home at cost of performance abroad while shortening lives of fast bowlers esp when they are forced to play meaningless t-20s. good to see that some things will never change.
 
over the last few years, i have not watched much of india playing at home. and if this match is anything to go by, it seems i have not missed much. results, which are so dependent on toss almost take the thrill out of the game. plus this english team seems to have learnt lesson from failures of past teams and gotten good preparation by going to sl and getting a gentle introduction to conditions - a strategy adapted by pak when playing in england. whereas previous english teams would crumble after first inning, this team is more battle-hardened due to sl tour.

the contrast in attitude between aussies and english team cannot be different. australians thinks they are gods gift to south asia when they tour the region. india is only palatable to them because of $$$. english team otoh genuinely wants to compete which explains their frequent tours to uae and tour to sl despite covid. the skills anderson showed in this match were refined in dubai and abu dhabi. australian team, despite being more talented than english team will not be able to compete it india. aussies got upended by one of the weakest pakistani attacks ever and were humiliated during the last sl tour because they have no desire to compete in difficult conditions. such attitude was exactly opposite of that displayed by border and his men. it was this hard work which translated into decades of success. but that era is now over.

this does not mean that england will win the series. the team is too dependent on root who is benefitting from conditions given his ability against spin. his performance at home was suffering because he kept getting out in slips while trying to play aggressively. no such danger here given the pitches. if he gets out, onus will be on stokes and he is a big question mark given his lack of recent playing time.

as for india, i have seen this script many times previously. conditions will produce gains at home at cost of performance abroad while shortening lives of fast bowlers esp when they are forced to play meaningless t-20s. good to see that some things will never change.

English team is pretty likeable. Sibley has it in him to become a successful opener. Leach and Bess are also very good especially Bess has improved his control a lot in last 2 3 years. They have a very balanced lineup, a bit light on experience in the top 3 though.
 
OP is known for creating OTT threads.

Prior to Ind-Aust test series, OP told me Australian bowling is not full strength.

I asked him, Starc-Cummins-Hazelwood-Lyon all playing...so who is missing?

OPs reply was okay but even with full strength its a weak attack.

Bottomline is, if India does well - opposition attack becomes weak. And if they fail, it becomes humiliation. There are no middle grounds at all.
 
reply to no 123

i agree. there is a big contrast between this english team and that of the 80s/90s team. as far as pak goes, shakoor rana/incident and botham/imran wrangle might have something to do with english reluctance to tour pak. i cannot recall a single england tour of pak in the 90s. they came for the 95 w.c. where they created some fuss and went bank without achieving anything. in comparison, australia toured pak twice in 90s. they came to pak even after the infamous scandal of 94 and their overall performance showed the benefit.

as a pak cricket fan, i am very happy with the support ecb has provided to pak in the time of need over the last few years. both teams will benefit with england tour to pak. hopefully that will happen soon.
 
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You seriously underrate England.

Their openers have two centuries each in not many tests played. Lawrence is new so I don’t know how you can know enough to disparage him. Leach has been effective everywhere he has bowled. Bess is a tyro but has obviously got something - the one he got Kohli with was as good as anything Swann bowled. If Buttler can’t play spin I would query you on how he scored his test match 150 against Yasir in one match and got England to the line with 80 in another when they looked gone.

Trying praising instead of running everyone down.

I don't rate them in these conditions.
And I have a lot of praise for them due to their victories in SL and now this one in India. I feel Root has played a big role in it and he is a sublime batsman in any conditions.
 
As long Pakistan remains miles below India in all formats, we should tone down a bit.

No point in criticizing India unless we manage to reach their level first. Unfortunately, we don’t have the talent, skill and mentality to do so.

Leave it to Pakistani fans to throw stones at India from their mid-table ranking.

Oh give your nonsense a rest. You make out india have nothing to prove yet they have a pathetic record in eng, NZ and SA. Now humilated in 1st test vs Eng.

Lets just focus on india alone. Still alot to prove and this is slap in face your arrogance deserves.
 
I am glad Pakistani fans have finally found their voice after their celebrations in Adelaide blew in their faces.

The last few weeks was hell for them. This win by England and the whitewash of South Africa has raised their spirits again.
Man if it was Pakistan losing everyone would be here saying how everything they have accomplished/won is fluke. India, your beloved India, who is supposed to be arms and legs above everyone ESPECIALLY at home lost a test match. That is embarrassing. Even if they win the series, it wouldn’t mean much as the dominate Indian test team still lost a test match at home. That is the harsh reality that would cause many sleepless nights for you my friend.
 
Kohli is an absolute gun batsman, one of the best of all time. But a terrible terrible captain in terms of team selection. His selections always baffle me, never seems like India go with their best XI under him.
 
TBH, I don't think this was a humiliation as such. England are strong team overall and they won in India in the not too distant past.

Before we all get too excited, remember what happened after the first test against Australia. However England will be wary of this and could potentially blunt any onslaught India tries in the next few tests.

And remember we were all told on these boards that Archer is the best in the world. :ishant
 
Test cricket is all about scoreboard pressure. When you put 500+ on the board, even average spinners can make impact. This match was lost when England batted for two days.

The absence of Jadeja hurt India big time and Root completely tamed Ashwin.

The Indian batting is not to be blamed for this defeat. In fact, no one is. The focus should be on how well England played, rather than how India did.

Kohli’s India is the GOAT Asian Test team. They have nothing to prove to anymore. However, that doesn’t mean they cannot lose.

The focus should be on England right now not India.

Yes, the only reason India lost this match was due to the nature of the pitch they opted for and the lack of pressure they created on England in the first innings.

The absence of Jadeja also created a void on the team for an all-rounder who was prolific with both bat and ball.

You see, unlike Nadeem, Jadeja would have controlled the run-rate and bowled in tandem with Ashwin. The two have a spectacular bowling partnership, and when one takes wickets, the other does too. Not having a spinner who can competently use the angle to spin the ball away from a right-hander's blade was the difference.

The issue with the pitch was that making a pitch like this, which starts out flatter than a road and then gives way to vicious spin works depending on two factors: The ability to bundle the opposition out if they bat first, and the quality of the spinners on the team.

England took their time and scored big, because buying time on a wicket like this meant that they'd eventually push past the initial new ball threat. The ball deteriorated severely, and the ball wasn't spinning too much, which allowed Root, Sibley, and Stokes to capitalize on these opportunities and score big. Sibley batted extremely slowly at first, and was able to cash in on a batting paradise. Similarly, Root played spin incredibly well, and was able to apply pressure on the weak links in the spin attack, being Nadeem and Sundar.

What India need to do now is fiddle with the team combination, and determine what type of pitch will make it easier to beat England. Either make it fully flat and bowl them out, or make it a dust bowl from the get-go. There is also an option of a green top, but Anderson might be too lethal on that type of surface. The choice of the pitch needs to be precise, and so must the squad selected. Nadeem doesn't merit a spot as a bowler, go with Kuldeep as he'll extract more turn and will always keep the slips in play because he possesses a potent googly.

This thread talking about being humiliated would be fine if it were coming from a team of some quality performances, but you don't even have to go as far as the Sri Lanka series (albeit the excuse would be home away from home), how can we not even hammer Zimbabwe convincingly in ODIs at home? That's a real question to ask before criticizing another team. Sharing viewpoints is fine, but calling out a team that's far superior than ours shouldn't really happen unless we become a better team. Having opinions is fine, but some people need to understand that India losing just means that the challenge of us beating England in Pakistan is far greater.
 
It's always good to watch India get humbled.

They'll come back hard though, ENG have to be prepared for it.
 
It was indeed humiliating. It is clear that Indian batsmen cannot handle reverse swing even after knowing that it is reverse swinging.

After Gill got out to a reverse swinging ball, I thought Rahane would know about it and cover the line well. But he played like a noob. I blame this loss on the trio of Rohit, Rahane and Kohli. Their utter failure in this Test is the reason India lost it.

I am not blaming this loss on India's 2nd innings collapse. Both India and England scored exactly the same amount of runs in 2nd innings. But what India did in their 1st innings was terrible. It was a belter, but India still found themselves scraping through to 370. All blame goes must go to big names like Rahane, Kohli and Rohit.
 
India have won every single home series since 2013, people are getting very excited over one lost game (not even series yet, just a single game) :)
 
The title of this thread is disrespectful and inflammatory. Mods should change it. It's an obvious troll attempt towards the Indian supporters here.
 
Need to stop with this.

PP is a more mature community than these petty thread titles would have one believe.

Form/performance are very fickle concepts. No clue what the average age on this thread is, but if there is anyone above 40/50, they’ll know better than to side one way or another.

People who make outlandish predictions/extrapolations or revisionist comparisons across eras get called out at one point or another.

In the last two months we saw this with the PK/SAF series (old threads on WTC standings predictions being bumped), we have seen the misnomer that is ‘ATG’ being touted, the point about how IND would meekly surrender to AUS coming to the fore, how PAK has ‘easy’ games until 2023 despite the series against SAF being a squeeze-out, about WIN who were meant to capitulate chasing a mammoth against BAN.

Even the most pimply of adolescents on this forum who started watching cricket near the turn of this decade should know better by now with their experience of just a few months.

Not to mention, this is disrespectful to the victor too. If games were to be won on bases of strength of the submitted team sheets (i.e. on paper), there would no point actually playing the game or watching it.
 
If England win 3 matches, it's the World Cup final rematch between England and New Zealand at Lord's again!

Personally I wish to see Kane batting against Jimmy/Broad in overcast conditions.

Best technique to negotiate lateral movement in my opinion, in the present day game.

Would pay good money to see that contest before they retire. No clue if spectators will be allowed in though.
 
But its only one match in a series of 4, You can lose one match does not mean its humiliating

When you can't find these kinds of trashing at home, then it means it's rare and it's humiliating.

The same match and scores In England would have been just a defeat but here it is a humiliation.
 
Need to stop with this.

PP is a more mature community than these petty thread titles would have one believe.

Form/performance are very fickle concepts. No clue what the average age on this thread is, but if there is anyone above 40/50, they’ll know better than to side one way or another.

People who make outlandish predictions/extrapolations or revisionist comparisons across eras get called out at one point or another.

In the last two months we saw this with the PK/SAF series (old threads on WTC standings predictions being bumped), we have seen the misnomer that is ‘ATG’ being touted, the point about how IND would meekly surrender to AUS coming to the fore, how PAK has ‘easy’ games until 2023 despite the series against SAF being a squeeze-out, about WIN who were meant to capitulate chasing a mammoth against BAN.

Even the most pimply of adolescents on this forum who started watching cricket near the turn of this decade should know better by now with their experience of just a few months.

Not to mention, this is disrespectful to the victor too. If games were to be won on bases of strength of the submitted team sheets (i.e. on paper), there would no point actually playing the game or watching it.

Rightly said. Many simply go with hyperboles rather than enjoying good cricket.

Eng played better than India and they won the first test. If India is supposed to win every test despite playing poorly and the opposition playing well then why even play cricket. We all can just have an imaginary scoreline and call it a day.
 
Need to stop with this.

PP is a more mature community than these petty thread titles would have one believe.

Form/performance are very fickle concepts. No clue what the average age on this thread is, but if there is anyone above 40/50, they’ll know better than to side one way or another.

People who make outlandish predictions/extrapolations or revisionist comparisons across eras get called out at one point or another.

In the last two months we saw this with the PK/SAF series (old threads on WTC standings predictions being bumped), we have seen the misnomer that is ‘ATG’ being touted, the point about how IND would meekly surrender to AUS coming to the fore, how PAK has ‘easy’ games until 2023 despite the series against SAF being a squeeze-out, about WIN who were meant to capitulate chasing a mammoth against BAN.

Even the most pimply of adolescents on this forum who started watching cricket near the turn of this decade should know better by now with their experience of just a few months.

Not to mention, this is disrespectful to the victor too. If games were to be won on bases of strength of the submitted team sheets (i.e. on paper), there would no point actually playing the game or watching it.
This. Well said.
 
It will be humiliating to lose the series, losing the test is unfortunate but thats how we are playing nowadays don’t think it’s humiliating..
 
Personally I wish to see Kane batting against Jimmy/Broad in overcast conditions.

Best technique to negotiate lateral movement in my opinion, in the present day game.

Would pay good money to see that contest before they retire. No clue if spectators will be allowed in though.

You can see this anytime New Zealand tours England or vice versa.
 
India has a knack of loosing first test....esp home test...much like England.....we can compare it to..
Azam getting out after restart....similar...but Jadeja availability may again benefit India....England still depends lot on Root Sibley...
 
You can see this anytime New Zealand tours England or vice versa.

That can be said more or less for any of the teams that make it to the final.

But would be a fitting part of Jimmy’s legacy to play the final.

Virat will get more shots at it, Jimmy may not. Having said that, that’s purely my wish. Up to the teams to secure the spot and be the deserving contenders.
 
India has a knack of loosing first test....esp home test...much like England.....we can compare it to..
Azam getting out after restart....similar...but Jadeja availability may again benefit India....England still depends lot on Root Sibley...

Its not the same , England is much stronger and Root is in the form of his life.

All other teams were weaker than this Eng test team, it would be possible if we had Jadeja.
 
I gained a lot of respect for India after they beat Australia in Australia. But this loss... idk, I think my respect went down a bit for them by 10%. Might go down further. Stay tuned.
 
Rightly said. Many simply go with hyperboles rather than enjoying good cricket.

Eng played better than India and they won the first test. If India is supposed to win every test despite playing poorly and the opposition playing well then why even play cricket. We all can just have an imaginary scoreline and call it a day.

Not to mention the inherent flaw in using the ‘transitivity’ argument.

When IND drew the SYD Test or won the GABBA Test there were ‘inferences’ that given IND B had drawn/beaten AUS A, surely the margin would have been greater had it been IND A.

Called the ridiculousness of the argument out back then and have no hesitation in doing so again. Does Bumrah being a part of the line-up that conceded 600 mean he should be replaced by someone from the supposed B team?

Does the IND batting line-up folding for 350 in the first innings mean it is time to drop Kohli without whom the team was doing better? Does it immediately render Vihari better than Rahane perennially?

Once again, and hopefully for the last time for PP (at least for a while for I am getting tired of typing this over and over again): the only truth is the one that transpires in front of our eyes. Everything else is rife with speculation. This applies just as to backward looking revised arguments as it does to boorish and macho forward looking ‘predictions’.

We Cannot get into a habit of accentuating the arguments in favour or victors/vanquished depending upon which side of the competition our allegiances lie. Difficult enough to do that in the present day, let alone to do it across eras/geographies/rules by conveniently compounding/discounting certain variables, whilst holding others constant.

In simpler terms: even if ENG win 4-0 against IND, it will not mean they too could have triumphed over AUS as IND did. Neither will a lose/drawn series against ENG dilute IND’s achievement Down Under. Match ups have too many variables at hand for us to juxtapose them from one series to another for our convenience.
 
I think the response by the Pakistanis is far more dignified in comparison to the Indians when Pakistan lost to NZ
 
GOAT team lost but I still expect them to win 3-1 or draw at the very least, 2-2.
 
India were outplayed by England. No one expected this. I think England deserve the praise.
 
India have won every single home series since 2013, people are getting very excited over one lost game (not even series yet, just a single game) :)

They are a good team and they should win the series but under pressure they too can wilt, as we evidenced here.
 
This shows the gulf between teams is not as big as was being made out to be post Gabba. Upto India now to prove otherwise.
 
Disagree with OP. The defeat is not humiliating. It's a game. Happens. Even if they lose the series, nothing humiliating.

Not trying, not giving your best, cheating, fixing matches - that sort of stuff is humiliating.

I'd add getting out for 36 to that list. That is why I am just not convinced Kohli is the right man for the job. Never been convinced despite his 30 odd wins.
 
Surprising more than anything else.

India were outplayed from ball one.

I was particularly surprised by the number of wickets England's spinners managed to take.
 
"GOAT" Indian team has lost 10/11 SENA series in last decade.
Wrong, India have lost 9/11 SENA series in the last decade. And their 2 series wins in SENA have been in Australia, the toughest of all SENA countries to win in.
 
England got humilated by bess and leach. Id rank this loss as humilating as when pakistan lost to england in karachi under moin khan when england had just as mediocre spinners.

Secondly this is PP so pakistan fans will say what they think and i hope its a humilating experience for those like mamoon etc.. who was doing bhangra about how this indian team is best world has ever seen. Enjoy the humble pie.
 
[MENTION=142056]szrana007[/MENTION] - Australia have lost 5 home test series in last decade so not exactly the fortress it use to be compared to before.

To lose the other 9 series india have in SEN is pretty poor to say the least and shudnt be ignored. Whole cricket world doesnt revolve around performances just in Australia.
 
This whole thread reminds me of that meme of a guy looking at a butterfly.

An ordinary loss from India against a fighting England team and people looking at it and saying "Is this a humiliating defeat for India?"
 
[MENTION=142056]szrana007[/MENTION] - Australia have lost 5 home test series in last decade so not exactly the fortress it use to be compared to before.

To lose the other 9 series india have in SEN is pretty poor to say the least and shudnt be ignored. Whole cricket world doesnt revolve around performances just in Australia.

The fortress was Gabba..that India won at at a decider of the series.
 
The fortress was Gabba..that India won at at a decider of the series.

It was a well deserved win for india and a deserved series win. Yet some people got abit to carried away with how good this indian team is interms of overall cricket history. This england defeat is a slap back down to reality.
 
If someone had said to me that Bess and Leach would take 11 wickets in the 1st Test against India, I would have said they were barking mad.

But credit to both bowlers, they took some hammer but kept on going and didn't let the boundaries they were conceding get them down.

As far as India's batting is concerned Rahane had a stinker and what on earth was Rohit Sharma doing.
 
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