Ajmal Kasab hanged

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan was not at war with Bangladesh (or East Pakistan) when they committed genocide, either.

Yes it was in reality. You are confusing the war with India. Everyone knew where it was heading so it turned into a war situation which would lead to a break up.

The numbers done by Mukti Bahini are insiginificant compared to those done by Pakistan. Those are the facts.

So from none to insignificant. Dont be shy, tell me how many?

You need to improve your comprehension skills if you cannot tell the difference between identifying a causal action with justification.
If you hit a person and that person shoots you, saying 'you got shot for hitting the person' is a causal statement. Not justification, which requires presenting a JUST cause (the basis of the word Justifying)

Youre trying to wriggle out of it now. It was pretty clear you were at best being an apologist for Indian rapes in Kashmir and at worst justifying it to be ok. You cannot then have the moral highground when it comes to the attrocities in Bangladesh esp when you refuse to accept your heros did the same.

There was no war before December 1971. Pakistan was facing an insurgency in Bangladesh for two years, like India has faced in Kashmir for 30 years.
And in 9 months, Pakistan butchered far more innocents than India has in 30 years.
You simply cannot wrap your head around these facts because of your national pride.

Now, you want to contest the numbers, which has been accepted in the given range, by many entities n the world.

I've explained in which context I used the word war. Pakistan did kill more but you cant get your head out of the sand and accept both scenarios are very much different. You cant even tell me how many but give a huge range out of desperation.

They are not calling the presence of India in Kashmir illegal, either.

It is disputed territory.

The same traitors came to the fore, in Kashmir and India acted against them. And they have acted far mildly in 30 years, than Pakistan has in 9 months.
That makes the Indian army more civilized than yours. Simple, really.

Our side didn't commit even 1% the war crimes Pakistan did.

Again how many people did your side kill and rape?

 

[Traveller55]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_UN_peacekeepers

Seems like our military is in higher demand than the nuke-toting Pakistani military. Despite the fact that we KNOW we are small fish and not small-fish with 0-3 in wars pretending to be big-fish.

 

[Traveller55]

Yes it was in reality. You are confusing the war with India. Everyone knew where it was heading so it turned into a war situation which would lead to a break up.

There was no declaration of war,there was no war. Its all excuses made up by people like you to justify genocide.
If there was 'war in reality', then India too has been in 'war in reality' for 30 years.
Cant expect your blatant double-standards to go unchallenged.

So from none to insignificant. Dont be shy, tell me how many?

Far lesser than your genocidal forces. Go do your own research. I've already showered this thread with evidence- you have presented ZERO.

Youre trying to wriggle out of it now. It was pretty clear you were at best being an apologist for Indian rapes in Kashmir and at worst justifying it to be ok. You cannot then have the moral highground when it comes to the attrocities in Bangladesh esp when you refuse to accept your heros did the same.

I ACCEPTED that my heroes did the same. Which is why I said they did the same in the first place.
What YOU are having trouble accepting, is that Indian military is far more humane than Pakistani, since they've murdered, killed and raped far less people for secessionism in 30 years, than Pakistan has done in 9 months.

I've explained in which context I used the word war. Pakistan did kill more but you cant get your head out of the sand and accept both scenarios are very much different. You cant even tell me how many but give a huge range out of desperation.

The huge range is accepted by international bodies, due to patchiness in data. Now show us how many Mukti Bahini killed if you wish to prop up your claim that they too killed and murdered innocents.

Your context of war is meaningless, self-serving double standards usage of the word. Done to try and minimize the brutality committed by your military.
War is war.
And there was no war in Bangladesh when Pakistan committed its genocide. There was insurgency-yes. Just like there is insurgency in Kashmir now.
And given how Pakistan killed more in 9 months than India has in 30 years, Indian military is far more humane. This is ABC logic.

It is disputed territory.

Disputed does not make Indian presence illegal. Learn some legal terminologies if you wish to go down this rabbit hole.

Again how many people did your side kill and rape?

Far less. Show us the numbers if you think its even comparable to your nation's act of genocide.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It doesn't change the fact that when we did want our independence and started an uprising, your military acted in far more brutal way than Indian military has acted in Kashmir.

Many years later, Kashmir was immediate.

Right. In a country where blasphemy on the internet gets you killed, people FROM Pakistan will speak for freedom ? You live in a fanciful state of mind if you think that's true.
Most Kashmiris- Paksitani or Indian- want independence from BOTH.

LOL You actually believe the Kashmiri's in Pakistan controlled are scared.

Again doesn't change the fact that your nation is a terrorist factory, my homeland isn't.
And yes, its too complicated for me to understand. But also for you. Because neither one of us has access to classified info to know whats up. See, the difference between you and me, is I KNOW what I don't know, you don't.

Its too complicated for you. Your attacks are increasing while Pakistans are decreasing.

Bangladesh is a bigger contributor to the UN peacekeeping force than Pakistan is and has been since the mid-90s.
Seems like or 5ft tall people do just fine and are in higher demand than your tall people.

UN peacekeeping lol. Good one .

You are the one to bring in how poor Bangladesh is. I am simply pointing out, your nation is in the same boat and arguably worse, since your nation's economic outlook is not as positive as ours and hasn't been in the last generation.

You boasted your nation is going to be the new Dubai when in reality its third wold and will remain this way for another century.

 

[Traveller55]

Many years later, Kashmir was immediate.

Doesn't change the fact that when faced with insurgency, India is far more humane than Pakistan.

LOL You actually believe the Kashmiri's in Pakistan controlled are scared.

If you can get killed for dissing religion, then dissing nation, which has far bigger input to people's lives is also an unsafe act.

Its too complicated for you. Your attacks are increasing while Pakistans are decreasing.

Its too complicated for ANYONE not privy to classified information.
Yes, your attacks are decreasing and ours is increasing. Ours is still 0.01% as yours in actual numbers, so we are not as broken as you guys are. Pretty simple.

UN peacekeeping lol. Good one .

Yes. Objective, empiric evidence of where and how people require military supervision is far more valid than speculative unobjective nonsense, i'd say.

You boasted your nation is going to be the new Dubai when in reality its third wold and will remain this way for another century.

Show me where I said my nation is going to be the new Dubai. My HOPE for my nation is not to be a new Dubai, its to be a new Germany. Where FREEDOM of the individual is just as sacrosanct as economic prosperity.
The above statement, is a bold-faced lie, but I am not surprised.

I said my nation's economy is improving and improving far better than yours. So while in 100 years we may actually be able to feed all our people, if current trends keep up, your people will have fun eating your nukes for dinner.

 

[Traveller55]

Also, there was no immediate insurgency in Kashmir either.
Indians used to go holiday in Kashmir in the 50s,60s,70s and 80s- all the way to 87 or so, when Kashmiri insurgency started.
Heck, even my wife has been to Kashmir in the early 80s and she isn't even Indian by birth or citizenship.

So yet another strawman destroyed.

The simple fact I've demonstrated here, is that Indian military are angels compared to Pakistani military when facing near identical situation in terms of dealing with insurgency and separatism in lands it controls.

Those are the facts.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There was resistance from day in Indian occupied Kashmir, things calmed down over the years. Just because there were some Bollywood films made or tourism doesn't change this fact.

I cannot debate with you on this subject any longer as you actually believe your people did no wrong and you also believe Kashmiris in Pakistan administred Kashmir are silent because they are scared due to the history with Bangladesh.

I appreciate your views. I have started a new thread and tagged you as since Ive not been to Kashmir much so please visit the thread and give as much detail regarding why Kashmiris in Pakistan controlled area are silent. Thank you.

 

[Traveller55]

There was resistance from day in Indian occupied Kashmir, things calmed down over the years. Just because there were some Bollywood films made or tourism doesn't change this fact.

Show us evidence of insurgency in Kashmir prior to the late 1980s.

I cannot debate with you on this subject any longer as you actually believe your people did no wrong and you also believe Kashmiris in Pakistan administred Kashmir are silent because they are scared due to the history with Bangladesh.

My people were fighting for our legal rights of equal representation and then asked for outside help when facing genocide.

You simply cannot accept the fact that when Pakistan faced insurgency in Bangladesh, they killed more people in NINE MONTHS than India has been doing in 30+ years of facing insurgency in Kashmir.

This most categorically makes Indian troops way better than Pakistani troops.

I appreciate your views. I have started a new thread and tagged you as since Ive not been to Kashmir much so please visit the thread and give as much detail regarding why Kashmiris in Pakistan controlled area are silent. Thank you.

Rhetorical question. If PoK-ers are really scared for retribution, why will they say they are scared for retribution ?!

You cannot debate me any longer because I simply will not let you get away with double standards and expose your hypocrisy at 'Indian atrocities in Kashmir', when you cannot accept the simple fact that your own troops did far worse when facing insurgency themselves.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You're going in circles, repeating the same thing doesn't make it correct.

I suggest you do some research to see if there any protests or uprisings in Kashmir before 47 when there was word the ruler would side with India and after. But I will be happy to provide these details but only when you respond to the thread I created and tagged you in.

If you are correct and people in Azad Kashmir hate Pakistan but are only silent due to what happened in Bangaldesh I will apologise and learn from you. Please visit the thread and expand on this.

 

[Traveller55]

You're going in circles, repeating the same thing doesn't make it correct.

I am repeating the same things because you are denying basic facts.
I've also presented facts.
Fact: Pakistan killed more in 9 months during Bangladeshi insurgency, than India has in 30 years of Kashmiri insurgency.

I suggest you do some research to see if there any protests or uprisings in Kashmir before 47 when there was word the ruler would side with India and after. But I will be happy to provide these details but only when you respond to the thread I created and tagged you in.

You specialize in passing the buck. Making random statements and asking people to do your homework for you.
I asked for evidence of a claim *YOU* made. Give evidence or be dismissed. That's how it works in most rational debates.
So far you have presented ZERO evidence.

If you are correct and people in Azad Kashmir hate Pakistan but are only silent due to what happened in Bangaldesh I will apologise and learn from you. Please visit the thread and expand on this.

I have no time for rhetorical threads.
Its like conducting a poll in Saudi Arabia to ask women if they are oppressed- oppressed people, in oppressed settings, will not risk themselves to pander to your fancy of polling. That's common sense.

Now please stop running away from the fact that Pakistani military is far more brutal and genocidal than Indian military. I have provided evidence- all you've done, is try making excuses on how apparently YOUR insurgency scenario with Bangladesh was ' actual war' but India's insurgency scenario with Kashmir isn't 'actual war'.

You made fun of Bangladeshi military, declaring that nobody wants us, but YOU guys are big players. I disproved it with the fact that Bangladeshi troops are more in-demand for peacekeeping foreign missions than Pakistanis are.

You also claimed that Bangladeshis invited their genocide by committing treason. When I pointed out that the same argument applies to Kashmir, you again ran away.

So stop running away from the basic fact that your military and government apparatus is far more heinous than India's and address it like the 'man' you claim to be.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It was your own peoples fault. Instead of remaining as Pakistan , YOUR people chose treason and to work with India to create what? Bangladesh?

Bangladesh has no relevance in the world, no influence and no potential I'm sorry to say. What a foolish decision to leave Pakistan , a nuclear power with a great army which has influence in many nations and potential to be the leading Muslim nation on Earth in years to come.

Btw There is a difference between war and state oppression.

Atleast Bangladesh can play their cricket matches at home. Considering their per capita is higher than Pakistan abd their economy is growing faster they have far more potential.

The great Pak Army surrendered in Dhaka.

Oh btw kudos to Bangladeshis to fight for their liberation and for not willing to be a colony of West Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

North Korea has nukes and a big army, are they a global player and considered a power in the world?
[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

 

[Snak3eye5]

Only the ruler of British India too decieded to give Bangladesh to Pakistan. The governing sovereign entity has the legal power to alter its sovereignty. This is basic legal theory 101.

You have no basis to claim that just because they are muslim, they don't want to be part of India. This claim is refuted by the fact that there are 150 million muslims in INdia today and they didn't leave India, nor did they want a separate homeland everywhere there is a significant muslim population.
Ergo, being muslim does not equate to being part of Pakistan.
The only reason nobody cares about Bangladesh, is because we are not the terrorist factory of the world- which is the only reason the world cares about Pakistan.
Saying we are irrelevant, coming from a nation that has never won a war in its independent history, is ranked outside the top 120 and in the bottom half of the world in human development, is like two pigs in the mud, arguing which one is muddier.

Our people DID do you a favor. for nearly 25 years we earned more revenue than you, yet you stole that revenue from us to build your shiny new capital and get shiny military toys (only to get them blown up by India). You are welcome. But once your heinous military started genociding us, we were well within our rights to stop doing any more favours for you.

The only part I would refute which again only helps you’re point is that the muslims are a lot more than 150 in India. Probably more than 200 million by now I would think. They are slated to be the largest Muslim population by 2050. Point is they are continuing to grow and have no problems living in India while the opposite effect is happening in Pakistan. The minorities are just declining in numbers.

 

[raju420]

Without sidetracking the thread you're being stupid.

People like Thackeray are the reason people like Kasab go out and commit atrocities. Comparing kingpins and pawns.

When did Thackrey people went to Pakistan and shot at innocents?

 

[raju420]

Also, there was no immediate insurgency in Kashmir either.
Indians used to go holiday in Kashmir in the 50s,60s,70s and 80s- all the way to 87 or so, when Kashmiri insurgency started.
Heck, even my wife has been to Kashmir in the early 80s and she isn't even Indian by birth or citizenship.

So yet another strawman destroyed.

The simple fact I've demonstrated here, is that Indian military are angels compared to Pakistani military when facing near identical situation in terms of dealing with insurgency and separatism in lands it controls.

Those are the facts.

I was in Srinagar last month! It all looks quiet and peaceful only some villagers in south Kashmir (Shopian) are throwing stones at police/army.