Are Mirpuris Punjabi or Kashmiri?

[ExplicitAI]

Guys, if a person from Mirpur (Dadyal specifically), and he/she speaks pothwari (very similar to the Punjabi that Sikhs speak) are they Kashmiri or are they Punjabi?

I also wanted to know if the typical Mirpuri is a Jatt, similar to the Sikhs living in Indian Punjab. No shame in being whatever you are but I just wanted to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Potohari..... most these people were brought in to work the land long time ago

 

[Zahid87]

Not everyone in Jammu & Kashmir is Kashmiri. Its home to several ethnic groups. Its an accident of history that these groups were variously grouped together under one province/state.

Culture in Mirpur, Kotli and Bhimber akin to Potohar in Punjab. Only Muzzafarabad and Neelum areas have 'actual' Kashmiri's in Pakistan.

Similarly, area around Jammu in Indian Kashmir is also similar to that of greater Punjab. Not ethnically Kashmiri.

Within areas like Mirpur then, you would find the same sort of tribes you find it Potohar area - so yes, some Jats, Gujjars, Awans, etc

 

[Zahid87]

In addition, your assertion on 'Sikh' Punjabi's speaking Potohari - it is possible that some were originally from that area of Punjab, and some may well speak it. But there are a lot more Pakistani Potohari's (who are Muslim), that will speak it too. Language obviously dependent upon the area you are from, rather than your religion.

And again, there are many Sikhs who are Jatt, but by the same token, there are many Muslims who are also of Jatt stock in Pakistan.

 

[amax]

Potohari/North Punjabis

 

[Pakistanian]

They're Paharis/ Potoharis. It's not just mirpuris but everyone in Azad Kashmir, whether fron Poonch or Muzaffarabad are all Pahari people, there are some ethnuc kashmiri refugees and a few in a villages on the border but they're only like 100,000 of the 4 million+ people there.

 

[Pakistanian]

Not everyone in Jammu & Kashmir is Kashmiri. Its home to several ethnic groups. Its an accident of history that these groups were variously grouped together under one province/state.

Culture in Mirpur, Kotli and Bhimber akin to Potohar in Punjab. Only Muzzafarabad and Neelum areas have 'actual' Kashmiri's in Pakistan.

Similarly, area around Jammu in Indian Kashmir is also similar to that of greater Punjab. Not ethnically Kashmiri.

Within areas like Mirpur then, you would find the same sort of tribes you find it Potohar area - so yes, some Jats, Gujjars, Awans, etc

Not really. Muzzafarbad is the same as Mirpur and so is Neelam valley. Most of the people there speak Hindko/pahari, there are only a few Kashmiri refugees. There are a few kashmiri villages on the border but the native people have always been the pahari people.

 

[ExplicitAI]

In addition, your assertion on 'Sikh' Punjabi's speaking Potohari - it is possible that some were originally from that area of Punjab, and some may well speak it. But there are a lot more Pakistani Potohari's (who are Muslim), that will speak it too. Language obviously dependent upon the area you are from, rather than your religion.

And again, there are many Sikhs who are Jatt, but by the same token, there are many Muslims who are also of Jatt stock in Pakistan.

Nah I never said if Sikhs spoke potohari, they've got their own dialect of Punjab which is distinct to the Indian side of Punjab, I was merely talking about tribes, in the sense that if we were the same but only thing that's different is our religion.

Potohari/North Punjabis

Would you say they're very similar to Punjabis in India?

 

[Pakistanian]

Nah I never said if Sikhs spoke potohari, they've got their own dialect of Punjab which is distinct to the Indian side of Punjab, I was merely talking about tribes, in the sense that if we were the same but only thing that's different is our religion.



Would you say they're very similar to Punjabis in India?

No, but they are closer to the people of Jammu who speak a similar dialect.

 

[PakLFC]

Kashmiris.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Kashmiris.

They are far from ethnic Kashmiris, majority are pure Jatts from the pind and are as close to a Punjabi that you can get.

 

[Bewal Express]

My grand parents from Mums side were from Mirpur. They are Punjabis(Awans) who went across the river 100's of years ago and in my case came back across in the last 80 years.

 

[OoparCut]

LOL at mirpuris claiming to be Kashmiris.

 

[Pakpak]

LOL at mirpuris claiming to be Kashmiris.

They are from Mirpur, which is in Azad Kashmir. Why on earth is it 'LOL'.

 

[Pakpak]

LOL at mirpuris claiming to be Kashmiris.

Infact ethnically not, but they hail from a city within Kashmir. So what you're saying is that inhabitants, who have lived there for 100s of years, of a city in Kashmir are not Kashmiris? An area can have people of different ethnicities, you do know that right? Their city is from Kashmir. Noone moved it there. Its like calling a British Indian not British just because he is ethnically not white. If he is born there he is one, in this case they have been in Mirpur for 100s of years so even that comparison is moot. Looks like another stupid Indian poster going on my ignore list. PP is infested with Indian trolls nowadays, thankfully the ignore feature filters out most nonsense.
[MENTION=146465]R3verse Swing[/MENTION], no idea how you have the patience to debate with these trolls.

 

[OoparCut]

Nationality and ethnicity are 2 different things. A British citizen can be as british as can be, but can't claim to celtic or Irish because he's lived there a 100 years. We are all humans at the end of the day anyway.

 

[Pakpak]

Nationality and ethnicity are 2 different things. A British citizen can be as british as can be, but can't claim to celtic or Irish because he's lived there a 100 years. We are all humans at the end of the day anyway.

You're very confused. There are two different things. Kashmiri as in someone is from the region that encompasses Kashmir and Kashmiri the ethnicity. A Mirpuri is a Kashmiri as their city lies in Kashmir.

Not a hard concept to understand, so yeah, they can claim to be Kashmiris.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Nationality is where an individual has a legal relationship with the state. An individual's nationality can change through out his/her life. For example, someone can move from USA to UK, and change nationality from American to British, and is the protected by the said government.

Ethnicity is where an individual is recognised through common ancestry/DNA. This never changes, for example a Pakistani can live in Britain or America, can change nationality, but will always be recognised as a British Pakistani or American Pakistani.

 

[srh]

Is Nawaz Sharif punjabi or kashmiri or potohari?

 

[Muddaser]

The region we call Azad Kashmir is technically Azad Jammu.

The people are speak Pahari/Potohari which is the same dialect spoken by the Dogra people in Indian Jammu where they call it Dogri.

 

[Muddaser]

Dogri/Pahari is a dialect of punjabi.

So technically most people of azad kashmir are culturally more related to people of punjab even though they are part of kashmir.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

I’ve spent time in Keran, where they speak Kashmiri and Pahari.

AJK isn’t just the old Jammu...

Keran is divided between Neelum Valley, AJK and Kupwara, IOK

 

[Pakistanian]

Is Nawaz Sharif punjabi or kashmiri or potohari?

He's Kashmiri-Punjabi like me. Kashmiri-Punjabis are peoples whi ancestors came from the valley of Kashmir (IoK) in the 1800s and early 1900s. We've assimilated in Punjabi culture. So we're identified as Kashmiri-Punjabis.

 

[Cricket follower]

The people of Mirpuri are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. They are ethno-geographically "Jammuites".

In the book "History of the Panjab Hill States" Khari-Khariyali is identified as being ruled by the Chibhs. Furthermore, in the book it mentions that Khari-Khariyali probably included a part of Mirpur district. Present day Khari Sharif is in Mirpur district.

 

[Cricket follower]

Also, in the book "The Gallant Dogras" it mentions that the three divisions of Rajput states were Kashmir, [Dugar] Jammu and Trigarta, and are indicated to exist prior to the 7th century [CE]. Furthermore, it mentions Khari-Khariyali to be part of the Dugara or Jammu region.

The language of Azad Jammu and Kashmir resembles the language of Indian-administered Jammu. This is the Pahari or Pa'ri of Jammu.

So, Mirpuris are ethno-geographically "Jammuite". Ethno-politically "Kashmiri". Ethno-linguistically "Pahari or Pa'ri". Ethno-nationally "Pakistani".

Ethno-racially Mirpuris can be "Jaatt, Gujjar, Rajput" which means they are Indo-Aryan. Some Mirpuris are "Kashmiri or Koshur" but a minority which means they are "Dardic", but still Indo-Aryan. There are some Pathans too which means they are Iranic.

Thank you.

 

[Cricket follower]

I believe the regional language variety of Mirpur originated from Prakrit. It has incorporated Nepalese, Kashmiri, Persian vocabulary and grammar.

A lot of the original inhabitants of Mirpur live abroad. Some people from Punjab have taken their place. They can not speak the language variety of Mirpur properly.

Example

Kaile is an interogative adverb meaning "when". This is used in the Nepali language. However, it is also used in the Mirpuri Pahari language variety.

Thank you.