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Arsenal FC | 2022/23 Season

Joao Felix on a 8M loan deal would be a no brainer for most PL, Add Mudryk to that as well and Arsenal would then have enough cover going forward to have a good 2nd half to the season.

Winning vs West ham and Brighton is a must, as we have 3 very difficult games in January and we need to have confidence and points in bag going into those games.

Bad results against WH and Brighton might just accelarate the process. Arsenal have a habit of dragging everything to the end of the window under the pretention of bargaining and not paying over the top. Usually it backfires and team will already be playing catchup.
 
Bad results against WH and Brighton might just accelarate the process. Arsenal have a habit of dragging everything to the end of the window under the pretention of bargaining and not paying over the top. Usually it backfires and team will already be playing catchup.

We cant afford a poor window like last january, which cost us top 4. Also getting attacking players in at end of window would just be a waste of time, we need players in early so they are available to Newcastle, spurs and United games. No haggling over a couple of pounds as usual.

We will see how much ambition kronkes have as they have never back the manager in a january transfer window when we have been in a stong position. We have know since Start Dec Jesus is out, so no execuses not to conclude discussions on Mudryk before window opens, also just pay the loan fee for felix.

I dont have an issues with getting a midfield in late in the window, but the attackers need to be in early.

6 points vs West Ham / Brighton is a must, no matter what the performance.
 
You might get players in for Spurs but would be shocked if you got any in for our game

This is an important window for you and the owners, this will show how serious they are or will they just be happy to settle for top 4
 
You might get players in for Spurs but would be shocked if you got any in for our game

This is an important window for you and the owners, this will show how serious they are or will they just be happy to settle for top 4

The owners have never back a manager at this club in january when we have been in a strong positions, i think the kronkes will be happy with top 4 and making CL, this is our best chance we are going to get.

Next season Newcastle will have had another year of rebuilding, i can see liverpool bouncing back, chelsea will improve on their rebuild, as will Man united.

Also is liverpool or united get Middle eastern owners that will help both.

Arteta, says the club are a year ahead of its target, that comes across as covering backs, same as last season where just getting into europe was a target.

This club never seizes the moment. This transfer window is make or break.
 
Martinelli 'getting closer' to penning new deal

Gabriel Martinelli is "getting closer" to committing his future to Arsenal, according to transfer expert Fabrizio Romano.

The talented 21-year-old forward's current contract runs through until 2024, but Arsenal have been speaking to Martinelli's representatives about extending his stay in north London.

Romano says the negotiation is now in the "final stages" although nothing has been fully agreed or signed.

Speaking to Sky Sports in November, Martinelli said: "I’m very happy at Arsenal, I’ve said it many times. This is my club. I love to be here. I love the city.

"I love everything about Arsenal. So I want to stay. I’m very happy... Just need to get a pen and sign."

SKY
 
Chelsea appear to have received a blow in their pursuit of Rafael Leao after the AC Milan forward revealed his admiration for Arsenal.

The 23-year-old is a winger in demand after spearheading the San Siro outfit to Serie A glory last season.

And with 16 goal contributions in 20 matches this term, the Portugal international has been linked with a move away – and the Blues claimed to be interested.

Boss Graham Potter even waxed lyrical over the ex-Lille forward in October to spark rumours of a possible 2023 switch.

And Leao has revealed he is keen to play in the Premier League in the future – though he stressed he is happy at Milan, where he has just 18 months left on his contract.

Speaking to radio station RDP Africa, the wide man, who has 34 goals for Milan since arriving in 2019, was asked whether he wants to test himself in England’s top-flight.

To which he said: “Yes, in the future. But now I’m 100 per cent focused on Milan.

“I’m at a top club and I’m under contract. I also like the city of Milan.”

https://talksport.com/football/1286553/rafael-leao-transfer-arsenal-ac-milan-premier-league-chelsea/
 
West Ham have lost 3 in a row.

Should be an easy win for Arsenal esp as its a London derby.
 
What a goal by Eddie Nketiah. Where are the haters?

EDDIE EDDIE EDDIE
 
Great goal by Nketiah

Arsenal of last season don't come back into this game

The owners need to back Arteta as a title challenge is very much on
 
What a goal by Eddie Nketiah. Where are the haters?

EDDIE EDDIE EDDIE

I'm still in shock from that, I need to watch the highlights to make sure I remembered it correctly. It was absolutely spectacular, a goal worthy of that #14 shirt, and he did it in the presence of Wenger and Henry. Brilliant Eddie
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Arsenal have now submitted a bid to sign Mykhaylo Mudryk. Understand it’s €40m plus €20m add-ons &#55357;&#57000;&#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56806; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AFC?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AFC</a><br><br>Shakhtar want ‘way more’ than this to sell Mudryk.<br><br>Talks will take place with player’s agent to discuss about the deal.<br><br>No issues on personal terms: Mudryk wants <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AFC?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AFC</a>. <a href="https://t.co/2NL6dap0By">pic.twitter.com/2NL6dap0By</a></p>— Fabrizio Romano (@FabrizioRomano) <a href="https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1607456778282835969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 26, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Mr Javed has suddenly gone very quiet after Nketiah’s goal.
 
I'm still in shock from that, I need to watch the highlights to make sure I remembered it correctly. It was absolutely spectacular, a goal worthy of that #14 shirt, and he did it in the presence of Wenger and Henry. Brilliant Eddie

Eddie is one of those players who is better than what his stats say.

Everyone was twerking for Rashford and attending dead out house music events in Manchester during the World Cup but Eddie Nketiah is showing his haters what time it is.
 
Eddie is one of those players who is better than what his stats say.

Everyone was twerking for Rashford and attending dead out house music events in Manchester during the World Cup but Eddie Nketiah is showing his haters what time it is.

Talk about overhyping a player after one goal :)))
 
Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta says club great Arsene Wenger "picked the right moment" to go back to Emirates Stadium as he saw them underline their title credentials.

Arteta's young team produced a second-half fightback to beat West Ham and move seven points clear at the top of the Premier League, which was resuming after the World Cup.

Wenger, who was the last Arsenal manager to win the title, made his first return since stepping down in 2018.

"His presence is something that has to be very, very attached to this football club so thanks [to him] for doing that because it means a lot for everybody at the club," said Arteta.

"Hopefully he is willing to spend more time with us and be around us because he is such an influence."

West Ham took the lead against the run of play when Jarrod Bowen was judged to have been clipped in the box by William Saliba, allowing Said Benrahma to smash a confident penalty down the middle.

There was a mood of frustration among the home fans until Bukayo Saka converted from close range after collecting Martin Odegaard's mis-hit shot.

The equaliser gave added impetus to the Gunners and another home goal looked increasingly likely.

Five minutes later, it duly arrived. Gabriel Martinelli put the hosts ahead, catching out West Ham's former Gunners keeper Lukasz Fabianski by tucking inside the near post from a tight angle when he seemed more likely to cross.

The points were sealed when Eddie Nketiah - starting in place of the injured Gabriel Jesus - spun sharply in the box before firing into the opposite bottom corner.

Arsenal extended their lead at the top over Newcastle, who moved second by beating Leicester earlier on Monday.

Reigning champions Manchester City - who go to Leeds United on Wednesday - are now eight points behind the Gunners.

West Ham are 16th and just a point above the relegation zone after their fourth league defeat in a row.

Arsenal fans are starting to believe Arteta's side can genuinely maintain their push for the club's first title since Wenger's Invincibles in 2004.

And as Wenger watched and heard his name lovingly sang by the home crowd, Arteta's young team added further encouragement to those dreaming of a long-awaited triumph.

"It is a really special day because Boxing Day is a beautiful day to play football and I thought the performance was at the level today that we deserve," said Arteta.

"Hopefully he [Wenger] will like it."

The match came on the third anniversary of Arteta's first game as Arsenal manager, and significant progress has been made since then.

When the former Gunners midfielder took over, they were closer to the relegation zone than the top four.

Their current position - and mood around the club - is a measure of how they have come.

The Spaniard has built a new team in the past three years which bears little resemblance - in style and substance - to the one picked for his first game at Bournemouth in 2019.

Arteta will not be getting carried after this win over West Ham, especially with several significant fixtures - not least against Manchester City on 15 February - on the horizon.

But the Gunners sent a message with a clinical second-half performance and the omens are also in their favour.

The team who topped the Premier League table on Christmas Day have gone on to be champions in 10 of the past 13 seasons.

Nketiah takes chance as West Ham struggle in front of goal
One of the key questions as the Premier League returned was how the Gunners would cope without key striker Jesus.

The Brazil international had knee surgery after being injured in Qatar and is expected to be out until late February, fuelling talk the Gunners might need to sign some cover.

But against West Ham, a first Premier League start of the season was handed to Nketiah - and the 23-year-old delivered.

After stretching the Hammers defence and creating space with his sharp movement, he capped an impressive all-round performance with a fierce finish and staked his claim to be Jesus' replacement.

"Gabby will be a big miss but we all believe in Eddie," Saka told Amazon Prime. "That's all he needs, us to keep supporting him and we will keep encouraging him.

"Everyone in the team is chipping in [with goals] and everyone will be important."

In contrast to the leaders, West Ham are struggling in front of goal.

They have been better than their league position suggests, according to their expected goals statistics, with converting chances being their main problem.

Few opportunities came against Arsenal, although the game might have panned out differently had Michail Antonio not been denied by Aaron Ramsdale shortly after the restart at 1-0.

Hammers manager David Moyes said before the match he has not been feeling pressure because of results, instead urging for perspective and togetherness across the club.

But a fourth straight league defeat leaves West Ham as one of the cluster of teams packed tightly together in the bottom half.

"I don't think we're in a relegation fight. Every team has a blip when it isn't plain sailing and results don't go your way," said midfielder Declan Rice.

"It's down to me as captain to keep everyone going and pushing. We still believe we are a top

BBC
 
Eddie barring that goal was actually pretty average. Even that goal was due to the defender getting tight to him.
 
That was a league winner’s performance.

0-1 down at home against a team grinding for points with a negative manager who plays a low block, the crowd on their backs, but they didn’t lose belief or hope & stuck to their positive gameplan.

Arteta reset the standard at half time and his team roared out in the second half to blow the opponent away with three brilliant goals.

Arsenal are very good. No idea why their title credentials are still being questioned by a few.
 
Eddie barring that goal was actually pretty average. Even that goal was due to the defender getting tight to him.

What does it matter? He did his job. The chance fell to him, he turned his man and slotted it bottom corner a la Ian Wright. 1 chance, 1 goal, game killed off. Haaland looks pretty average too if you watch the parts where he's not tapping it in.

Every goal ever scored requires some defensive mistake, it's about the quality to capitalise on it. Our other 2 goals were far bigger defensive mistakes than this one.
 
Nketiah is absolutely fine. He's a perfectly able deputy to Jesus so can do a job for a couple of months, and is more clinical so will probably end up scoring more regularly. Of course, Jesus is the better player still as his all-round game is superior, but the rest of the team and the system can make up for it. We will not lose that much while Nketiah is deputising for Jesus.

The focus transfer-wise is rightly on the wide areas, where we stand to lose a lot more if Saka or Martinelli drop out of the side. Smith Rowe is the only acceptable replacement in the squad, and he's not even fit.
 
Arsenal have had a £55m offer for Ukraine winger Mykhaylo Mudryk rejected by Shakhtar Donetsk but are expected to make a fresh offer for the 21-year-old. (Evening Standard)
 
If Nketiah was playing for a lower half team, the same Arsenal who are writing him off would be interesting in signing him as cover for Jesus.

He is an invaluable asset to the squad - young, English with a natural eye for goal. You won’t find many better backup strikers in the league.
 
Arsenal have had a £55m offer for Ukraine winger Mykhaylo Mudryk rejected by Shakhtar Donetsk but are expected to make a fresh offer for the 21-year-old. (Evening Standard)

Hopefully they stop messing around with silly low ball offers and just getting signing done before we play newcastle.
 
Do Arsenal even need more wingers when they discarded Pepe without giving him a proper run?.

He was one of their top performers in 2020
 
I don't think you can ever so no to signing top players but with Mudryk, what does that do for Martinelli?
 
He isn't better than Wilson, Wood or Havertz

Do you remember what Eddie Nketiah did to Chelsea last season when they played in April?

Not convinced by Havertz and Wood. Wilson has done well but you also need Nketiah's pace and movement as well so I would accommodate both of them in Newcastle's first team.
 
I don't think you can ever so no to signing top players but with Mudryk, what does that do for Martinelli?

Totally agree, I feel ESR is more than an adequate back up for Martinelli.

The priority needs to be on bringing a number 9 but we're wasting time on a winger who I very much doubt will start ahead of Martinelli.
 
What Arsenal need to prioritise on are a number 9 and a defensive midfielder who can cover for both Partey and Xhaka.

Next on the list should be someone who can deputise for Saka.

Anyone else would be surplus to Arteta's requirements.

Mudryk isn't needed and isn't worth £85m.
 
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Arsenal need cover for Partey. That much was clear at the start of the season and now as well. He is bound to get injured, that much is for sure. Tierney and Zinchenko are other vulnerable ones at left back.
 
Arsenal need cover for Partey. That much was clear at the start of the season and now as well. He is bound to get injured, that much is for sure. Tierney and Zinchenko are other vulnerable ones at left back.

It was funny to see all these Arsenal fans cheering Wenger when only a few years ago they were showing the clubs greatest manager a lot of hate lol.

Very good comeback in the 2nd half. Top 4 is secured imo :)
 
It was funny to see all these Arsenal fans cheering Wenger when only a few years ago they were showing the clubs greatest manager a lot of hate lol.

Very good comeback in the 2nd half. Top 4 is secured imo :)

If you pick 100 legends from all walks of life, 80 of them would have overstayed their welcome and became villains. That does not mean one should cancel their achievements. 😎
 
Shaktar bosses are deciding their evaluations based on Antony and Grealish values. Both are players for which the respective clubs overpaid by a long distance.
Mudryk has not done even half of what they have done, plus the market values should not be decided by scenarios where desperate clubs overpaid. Even 40 M is a tad higher for this unproven lad.
 
It was funny to see all these Arsenal fans cheering Wenger when only a few years ago they were showing the clubs greatest manager a lot of hate lol.

Very good comeback in the 2nd half. Top 4 is secured imo :)

As an Arsenal fan I agree!

Bit like people going gaga over Sarf now after bad mouthing him a few years ago
 
Shaktar bosses are deciding their evaluations based on Antony and Grealish values. Both are players for which the respective clubs overpaid by a long distance.
Mudryk has not done even half of what they have done, plus the market values should not be decided by scenarios where desperate clubs overpaid. Even 40 M is a tad higher for this unproven lad.

Mudryk has been excellent in the Champions League

Grealish never played in Europe

Antony did well in the CL but not moreso than Mudryk
 
Football fans are fickle, this applies to all clubs

I did think at the time the fans were harsh towards Wenger but I also accept as an outsider I don't have the same awareness of fans of that club will have

As a Newcastle fans we arguably have suffered most from outsiders claiming things about us that are simply untrue (deluded, Ashley is a good owner, we treated Bruce unfairly, we are only doing well because of money etc etc)

Wenger is an absolute legend for Arsenal so they should rightly be able to show him that love
 
Mudryk has been excellent in the Champions League

Grealish never played in Europe

Antony did well in the CL but not moreso than Mudryk

Why is CL so special in evaluating a player except for being noticed quickly? Grind in the league over a season is a better indicator not a one off performances in a cup competition.
 
It was funny to see all these Arsenal fans cheering Wenger when only a few years ago they were showing the clubs greatest manager a lot of hate lol.

Even as a Man United fan, I have always admired Wenger. He is someone who has carried himself with a lot of class.

It is a shame that idiots on AFTV built their channel off Wenger hate, and now they are the same people cheering Wenger. Bunch of shameless bunch.
 
Do Arsenal even need more wingers when they discarded Pepe without giving him a proper run?.

He was one of their top performers in 2020

Yes because only decent Bench player we have is ESR who cant stay fit, if the club wants to compete for titles and in CL consistantly we need compeition for places in attacking positions and out wide. If Saka or Martinelli get injured or out for form the bench doesnt have the cover.

we saw last season same issue after january in games where if 1st 11 struggle there was no one to bring on rotate to help change the game.

You cant get away with just having a good starting 11.
 
I don't think you can ever so no to signing top players but with Mudryk, what does that do for Martinelli?

Competition for places, squad rotation and makes each player step up game more and no complacency.

Look at liverpool where they had Mane, salah, Firminho, Diaz and Jota last season and helped them compete on all fronts. You cant just have a good 11 and nothing else.
 
Even as a Man United fan, I have always admired Wenger. He is someone who has carried himself with a lot of class.

It is a shame that idiots on AFTV built their channel off Wenger hate, and now they are the same people cheering Wenger. Bunch of shameless bunch.

Agree. Wenger was the only one who competed well with the GOAT Fergie.

The results may not have been what Arsenal fans wanted but the dark hate towards him esp in live in the ground while the match was being played, has to be the worst ever from any fans of any club
 
Why is CL so special in evaluating a player except for being noticed quickly? Grind in the league over a season is a better indicator not a one off performances in a cup competition.

Because it demonstrates what a player is capable of

Signing players from abroad has a risk attached to it, if a player has shown they can do it in the CL then it's a good chance he'll do well in the PL
 
Wood isn’t good enough for Newcastle now but when he was signed, you guys were in trouble. He is a perfect type of striker for any team that is in a relegation scrap.

Wood was an important signing for us, not glamorous but what we needed

However there are levels in football and Nketiah is better than Wood
 
Because it demonstrates what a player is capable of

Signing players from abroad has a risk attached to it, if a player has shown they can do it in the CL then it's a good chance he'll do well in the PL

CL performance is always complimentary to a consistent league performance, it is not the deciding factor.
 
CL performance is always complimentary to a consistent league performance, it is not the deciding factor.

Generally speaking yes but for players in leagues that no one cares about then it's based on CL

Mudryk doing well in the Ukrainian league is irrelevant but him doing well in the CL is what drives his value up
 
Arteta doesn't fancy getting Joao Felix on loan which I find quite odd when we're so short in the number 9 department.
 
Agree. Wenger was the only one who competed well with the GOAT Fergie.

The results may not have been what Arsenal fans wanted but the dark hate towards him esp in live in the ground while the match was being played, has to be the worst ever from any fans of any club

The hate should have been directed at the Kronkeos. Instead Wenger faced the brunt of the criticism, and Kronkeous hid in the background.
 
The hate should have been directed at the Kronkeos. Instead Wenger faced the brunt of the criticism, and Kronkeous hid in the background.

Agree they have been very tight for years now buying untested players or those with hype but how well Arsenal are playing they probably think now they are justified.
 
Wood was an important signing for us, not glamorous but what we needed

However there are levels in football and Nketiah is better than Wood

Perhaps Nketiah is a better player, but I say Wood is better suited for teams fighting relegation. He is a typical big man, hoof the ball into the box kinda striker, and all the crap teams need a striker like him.
 
Agree they have been very tight for years now buying untested players or those with hype but how well Arsenal are playing they probably think now they are justified.

Even though Arsenal currently sit top of the table and are playing well, I still feel that they will finish well behind Man City. I don't what it is, but there is something about Arsenal that doesn't convince me that they are credible title challengers.
 
Even though Arsenal currently sit top of the table and are playing well, I still feel that they will finish well behind Man City. I don't what it is, but there is something about Arsenal that doesn't convince me that they are credible title challengers.

Injuries pile up in Jan and esp Feb with all the cup and European games. Arsenal losing just Saka will end their dream. If Another 2 or 3 big stars are injured, top 4 could slip away too. The Squad comes into play in the 2nd half of the season.

This team has a lot of points for the games played. They play good football too, quick movement and passing but something about this team looks fragile.
 
Big 6 weeks or so ahead for Arsenal with some big fixtures (Newcastle, NLD, Man-U, City)

If after the City game they are still first then they are very much in a title race and arguably favourites
 
Shakhtar CEO: Negotiations continuing with Arsenal over Mudryk

Shakhtar Donetsk chief executive Sergei Palkin has confirmed "negotiations are continuing" with Arsenal over the signing of forward Mykhailo Mudryk.

The Gunners, who reportedly had an opening offer worth around £55m including add-ons rejected, are yet to meet the demands of the Ukrainian club, with the payment structure also being discussed.

Sky Sports News understands Shakhtar value the 21-year-old at £85m.

Speaking to Shakhtar's official website, Palkin said of Arsenal's pursuit of Mudryk: "Negotiations are continuing.

"We receive offers, but they are not the ones we would like to see on our table.

"Now, literally in 5 minutes, I will have a phone conversation with Arsenal. We are open to negotiations, ready to exchange ideas and figures.

"If we will agree, then let it be so. If we will not, then let it be another time."

Sources close to the deal have explained to Sky Sports News that Shakhtar view Mudryk, who has played just eight times for his country and is yet to score a goal in international football, as one of the top five wingers in the world.

Shakhtar believe he is better than Antony at Manchester United, who cost £86m from Ajax in the summer, and are using that as their benchmark in negotiations.

Another source had previously told Sky Sports News there is cautious optimism a deal can get done with Arsenal thought to be encouraged by the player's desire to join.

SKY
 
Perhaps Nketiah is a better player, but I say Wood is better suited for teams fighting relegation. He is a typical big man, hoof the ball into the box kinda striker, and all the crap teams need a striker like him.

Both are championship / bottom of premier league standard strikers.
 
<b>Marc Overmars: Ex-Arsenal winger in hospital after 'mild stroke'</b>

Royal Antwerp sporting director Marc Overmars has been admitted to hospital after suffering what his club called "a mild stroke".

The 49-year-old former Ajax, Arsenal and Barcelona winger became unwell on Thursday, the Belgian side said.

Overmars joined Royal Antwerp earlier this year following a decade as director of football affairs at Ajax.

"Marc is doing well in the meantime, but will have to take it easy for a while," an Antwerp statement said.

It added that the Dutchman and his family would "focus on his recovery".

As a player Overmars won three league titles and the Champions League with Ajax before moving to Arsenal in 1997, where he won a league and cup double before signing for Barcelona in 2000.

Overmars' career was often interrupted by injury and he retired from playing in 2004.

BBC
 
<b>Marc Overmars: Ex-Arsenal winger in hospital after 'mild stroke'</b>

Royal Antwerp sporting director Marc Overmars has been admitted to hospital after suffering what his club called "a mild stroke".

The 49-year-old former Ajax, Arsenal and Barcelona winger became unwell on Thursday, the Belgian side said.

Overmars joined Royal Antwerp earlier this year following a decade as director of football affairs at Ajax.

"Marc is doing well in the meantime, but will have to take it easy for a while," an Antwerp statement said.

It added that the Dutchman and his family would "focus on his recovery".

As a player Overmars won three league titles and the Champions League with Ajax before moving to Arsenal in 1997, where he won a league and cup double before signing for Barcelona in 2000.

Overmars' career was often interrupted by injury and he retired from playing in 2004.

BBC

Get well soon Marc.
 
Must win tonight, even more so now that City and Newcastle have dropped points.

Both Arsenal and city have tough games in January

Arsenal play Newcastle, Spurs and Man united

City play Chelsea, United and Spurs
 
Huge opportunity for Arsenal, win today and that 7 point gap probably makes them ever so slight favorites for the title
 
1-0 Saka what a start..

Zinny misses chance to make it 2-0
 
Arsenal will need a 2nd goal here, Brighton causing issues now.
 
Ødegaard has been in outstanding form all season. Really hope Arsenal take the trophy under him.
 
Ødegaard has been in outstanding form all season. Really hope Arsenal take the trophy under him.

He has improved on his finishing and goal scoring, which was one area he did need to improve on this season.
 
Taylor is such a rubbish ref, starting to dish cards out now, *****.
 
Excellent 1st half, nothing silly I'm 2nd half and hopefully 3 points.
 
Arsenal in the luxurious position that majority of the pressure will be on City

They know that even if they lose both games to City they can't overtake them, obviously there's other games before they face each other but knowing that will help Arsenal

Arteta has done a wonderful job
 
Arsenal in the luxurious position that majority of the pressure will be on City

They know that even if they lose both games to City they can't overtake them, obviously there's other games before they face each other but knowing that will help Arsenal

Arteta has done a wonderful job

Both teams have tough games in January, we need to get to Feb and the city game will still a decent lead. For now 1 game at a time, Newcastle next which won't be easy.

normally it's a fixture we win, but you are a different side now.
 
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