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Aus [662/9d] defeat Eng [403 & 218] in the 3rd Test by an innings and 41 runs to regain The Ashes

If they can, AUS should bat for another 15 overs and take a 330+ lead. Then, they can use their 3 pacers in short burst - 8 overs before tea, 6 after and then rotate with Lyon. Another 15 overs tomorrow morning between 3 pacers - 55 overs should be enough for Pom top 6 ....
 
Abdullah719 said:
I don't think he's in shape (for fast-bowling)....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good to catch up with <a href="https://twitter.com/griffta18?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@griffta18</a> today and put him through his paces in the gym. 💪💪 <a href="https://t.co/Axh480ebzs">pic.twitter.com/Axh480ebzs</a></p>— Chris Tremlett (@ChrisTremlett33) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisTremlett33/status/935931349902528517?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
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With just his presence he would have b en more intimidating then current English bowlers.
 
In the third innings of the waca last year south africa batted for 160 odd overs and made 540-8d

No demons on this pitch still
 
Pretty dismal series for Cook. I think the time has come for him to retire. No point staying anymore.
 
Cook’s eyes have gone. May be worth dropping down the order before he retires though.

As for England - innings loss coming up. Unless it rains.
 
Vince timing the ball very nicely. I haven't seen much of him because I have mostly been able to watch matches on saturday and sunday these days. He looks a good prospect.
 
Ok so Vince has reached his Test match batting average (20) at the crease, now we can expect him to get himself out in the next few minutes.
 
What kind of batting both Cook and Root have displayed this series.They have been awful.
 
Very poor from England.

Lost 0-4 to India recently and now on their way to make it 0-3 at the very minimum here.
 
Savak said:
This Ashes series has been very bizzare. Heads will need to roll because it just looks like the English team turned up to Australia with absolutely no plan, no homework, no regard for the conditions and no real desire to win in Australia.

Andrew Strauss and the English Coach need to be held accountable for this.
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Not bizarre. Entirely predictable and indeed predicted by most of us. They picked the wrong side. Four FMs and a flat offie would never bother Australia. Cook is at the end, Root's purple patch was bound to end sometime and Broad is clearly exhausted and needs six months off.

On a positive note Malan has emerged and Stokes will come back eventually.

The coach should be sacked. Let Farbrace take over again.
 
Robert said:
Not bizarre. Entirely predictable and indeed predicted by most of us. They picked the wrong side. Four FMs and a flat offie would never bother Australia. Cook is at the end, Root's purple patch was bound to end sometime and Broad is clearly exhausted and needs six months off.

On a positive note Malan has emerged and Stokes will come back eventually.

The coach should be sacked. Let Farbrace take over again.
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So what bowling attack would have done better here?
 
Robert said:
Not bizarre. Entirely predictable and indeed predicted by most of us. They picked the wrong side. Four FMs and a flat offie would never bother Australia. Cook is at the end, <B>Root's purple patch was bound to end sometime</B> and Broad is clearly exhausted and needs six months off.

On a positive note Malan has emerged and Stokes will come back eventually.

The coach should be sacked. Let Farbrace take over again.
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That part is debatable and rather hard to digest.

Root showed glimpse of his talent before this series away from home in India , UAE and SA but he didnt dominated any of them and Australia was his biggest test with him expected to finally put a dominant show atleast with the bat because as a captain he anyways lacked resources.

So overall he was a massive disappointment as a batsmen and as a captain in this series and I think enough games are played already to come to this conclusion.
 
To be fair I don’t think any serious England fan expected anything less than a comprehensive defeat in this series. Most people I know went for 1-3 or 0-4. My personal view was 1-4 but now looks like it could be 0-5.
 
latest


That's unplayable by Starc.

What a delivery.
 
Credit where credit’s due, very good innings from Vince and took a snorting delivery from Starc to dismiss him.
 
England can take some positives from the three matches in terms of the rookie performances - Malan and Overton definitely, Stoneman and Vince to a lesser extent - it’s the senior players that have blown it.
 
Robert said:
Not bizarre. Entirely predictable and indeed predicted by most of us. They picked the wrong side. Four FMs and a flat offie would never bother Australia. Cook is at the end, Root's purple patch was bound to end sometime and Broad is clearly exhausted and needs six months off.

On a positive note Malan has emerged and Stokes will come back eventually.

The coach should be sacked. Let Farbrace take over again.
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Most teams get destroyed in AUS. There is a reason why the Asian teams never ever won a test series in Aus. Now thats 1 pathetic record!

Eng also didnt have much of a chance. This is it. There is no express pacer that can bowl 90mph plus in tests that they didnt select.
 
James said:
England can take some positives from the three matches in terms of the rookie performances - Malan and Overton definitely, Stoneman and Vince to a lesser extent - it’s the senior players that have blown it.
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Yep. Moral victory to ENG.
 
pakistani pride said:
Yep. Moral victory to ENG.
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Moral victories are worthless. Results on the pitch are the only things that matter. However it is important for England fans to know that they may have some good players emerging for the future.
 
Ab Fan said:
That part is debatable and rather hard to digest.

Root showed glimpse of his talent before this series away from home in India , UAE and SA but he didnt dominated any of them and Australia was his biggest test with him expected to finally put a dominant show atleast with the bat because as a captain he anyways lacked resources.

So overall he was a massive disappointment as a batsmen and as a captain in this series and I think enough games are played already to come to this conclusion.
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Sometimes batsmen score runs consistently, sometimes they consistently fail. He’s out of form at present. It will come back. Perhaps captaincy is affecting his concentration, as it tends to do with England skippers. All the silliness with headbutts and drinks poured on heads will not have helped.
 
Anderson is quietly having a good series. Twelve wickets at 26 so far.
 
Anderson is having a good series on paper and looked every inch a world-class bowler at Adelaide. But putting the four-haul aside, which is what it is, he has been a gross disappointment in this match. He needed to take the wickets of Marsh and Smith two sessions earlier - the whole Test might have gone differently then.

Then again at least he has made a solid contribution and given England some things to cheer. Broad has been utterly abysmal. I would drop him for Melbourne and Sydney and see how he reacts.
 
Convict said:
Broad on the other hand reminds me of Gillespie in 2005. The end comes quickly unfortunately.
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He has bowled a lot of overs down the years but is only 31. I would give him a series off and see if his zip comes back.
 
Robert said:
He has bowled a lot of overs down the years but is only 31. I would give him a series off and see if his zip comes back.
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He was the best bowler on the tour of India. And i still think he is better than Anderson across all conditions.
 
Broad performance in previous SA tour and the previous Aus tour was really top notch. He started off well in this series but gave up too early.

Anderson was pretty mediocre in those two tours.
 
Robert said:
In hindsight I would have gone in with Anderson, Wood, Stokes and Plunkett.
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Stokes would be just as ineffective as everyone else has been.

Wood can't bowl at top pace for two days, much less five tests, without breaking down. Let's not forget he played two tests against the Saffers this summer and returned figures of 1 for 197 before missing the rest of the series because, you guessed it, he was injured.

Plunkett has hardly played any first class cricket all year so there's no way he's fit enough to put in the kind of work required on this tour.

Tymal Mills is a genuine quick but unfortunately his back condition means he will never play anything more than T20s.
 
WengerOut said:
I have heard Jamie Overton can be quick. What happened to him?
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Hurt his back and he's working his way back to fitness now. I think he might even be down under right now on some fast bowler's camp and will be around the England squad
 
WengerOut said:
I have heard Jamie Overton can be quick. What happened to him?
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Injuries. As for the other candidates:

George Garton is erratic. Tom Helm is pacy and can generate decent bounce but has had injuries in the past, playing only 17 FC games and only 5 this season in the County Championship which was his first real full season of FC cricket. Reece Topley has had four stress fractures of the back.

As George Dobell put it yesterday, this Ashes is not just a failure of the English team but of the English system. Any genuine English quick you name has an injury record as long as your arm.
 
Markhor said:
Injuries. As for the other candidates:

George Garton is erratic. Tom Helm is pacy and can generate decent bounce but has had injuries in the past, playing only 17 FC games and only 5 this season in the County Championship which was his first real full season of FC cricket. Reece Topley has had four stress fractures of the back.

As George Dobell put it yesterday, this Ashes is not just a failure of the English team but of the English system. Any genuine English quick you name has an injury record as long as your arm.
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Another problem is the way we hear about these young bowlers with out and out pace and then they get into the test side and turn out to bowl 83-85 mph like everybody else.
 
Big Mac said:
Another problem is the way we hear about these young bowlers with out and out pace and then they get into the test side and turn out to bowl 83-85 mph like everybody else.
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And its only going to get worse with the new T20 franchise competition that'll push the County Championship further to the margins of the English season, so trundlers will be able to take buckets of wickets in April/May and September.
 
mak36 said:
Perhaps, but England lack any quality express options.
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There are some quicks but they're injury prone. The Loughborough Academy, and Kevin Shine who heads the Performance Programme, is coming in for a lot of criticism. There's no fast bowling culture here like in Australia or Pakistan.

The conditions in county cricket encourages medium pacers dependent on seam and swing, but ill-equipped to bowl overseas.

Chief Destroyer said:
That's true. With the exception of Mark Wood, this is their best attack.

Their U-19 bowlers showed a lot of pace potential. Let's see how they develop.
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There's three main candidates as far as genuine quicks are concerned from what I've read. Mark Wood (the fastest), Jamie Overton (6ft 5 and can touch 90mph) and Tom Helm.

Helm is actually fit at the moment and could've been on the plane to Australia had he played more FC cricket this season. Plays for Middlesex, swings the ball both ways and with his height generates decent bounce, apparently operates around high 80s according to Kevin Shine.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o8uZjPJ7eYw" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here he is wearing the No.7 shirt, seems to have good control.
 
Markhor said:
Helm is actually fit at the moment and could've been on the plane to Australia had he played more FC cricket this season. Plays for Middlesex, swings the ball both ways and with his height generates decent bounce, apparently operates around high 80s according to Kevin Shine.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o8uZjPJ7eYw" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here he is wearing the No.7 shirt, seems to have good control.
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If he's bowling high 80's in that video then [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] isn't a pie chucker.
 
Australia's successful strategy of playing on roads keeps working. Full credit to Australian bowlers for bowling well on these surfaces. Few years back OZ was reducd to 24/9, They got knocked over for 60 runs against England. Then that Hobart massacre by SA. With Warner at the top they are pretty much invincible on flat roads.
 
This isn't a road, it's pacey with a bit of bounce. Probably the best test wicket in the world. Good batters get runs, good bowlers take wickets if they bend their backs, everyone else gets found out.
 
Robert said:
He already has a test fivefer in Australia on a flat deck.
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Anderson has a five-fer in Australia and Broad has a six-fer.

And Stokes didn't take his five wickets on flat deck. England won the toss and put Australia in to bat "on a green, grassy pitch under cloudy skies."

Stokes took 6 for 99 from 19.5 overs. That economy rate of 4.99 is the third worst ever by an England bowler who took a five-fer. In Australia's second innings in that match he went at 6.20 runs an over for his 2/62.

Excluding that expensive six-fer his figures in the rest of that tour were 9/393, average 43.66 at 4.05 RPO.

So yeah, let's not go down the revisionist history path where Stokes made magic happen in perfect batting conditions.
 
Robert said:
This isn't a road, it's pacey with a bit of bounce. Probably the best test wicket in the world. Good batters get runs, good bowlers take wickets if they bend their backs, everyone else gets found out.
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Call it true wicket or road. But it doesn't really pose any challenge. That is why i give creidt to OZ bowlers. They are better bowlers on roads with bounce.
 
Robert said:
In hindsight I would have gone in with Anderson, Wood, Stokes and Plunkett.
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Thats the thing.... in HINDSIGHT!

Thing is, Plunkett is not fit for a test, let alone a full Ashes tour down under. Stokes is no McGrath or even B.Lee.

Wood would have been useful.
 
Never seen a minnow team like England hyped up so much.
 
What was so special about that Starc delivery to be called the 'ball of the century'. Steyn's outswinger to Vaughan in 2004 in South Africa was a hundred times better than this, yet it doesn't get a shout since it wasn't an Ashes test match.

Ridiculous hype.
 
Usman Chadda said:
What was so special about that Starc delivery to be called the 'ball of the century'. Steyn's outswinger to Vaughan in 2004 in South Africa was a hundred times better than this, yet it doesn't get a shout since it wasn't an Ashes test match.

Ridiculous hype.
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I think it's a deserving candidate. Not even Steve Smith could have kept that one out.

However, I agree Steyn's was better because Vaughan reads the swing and is still outdone by the sheer quality of the delivery.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Australia's successful strategy of playing on roads keeps working. Full credit to Australian bowlers for bowling well on these surfaces. Few years back OZ was reducd to 24/9, They got knocked over for 60 runs against England. Then that Hobart massacre by SA. With Warner at the top they are pretty much invincible on flat roads.
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Every bowling attack is different. This same Australian bowling attack will not be that effective on English pitches which aid swing and seam whereas the Australian bowlers are more fast and hit the deck bowlers. These English bowlers in England will be the second coming of Hadlee in England and will comfortably outshine the Aussies over there.
 
Seems like no respite for the English today. Good weather predicted, so we can expect the Aussies to go up 3-0 today.
 
Apparently the covers have leaked and turned this into a 1920s-style damp wicket!
 
Is it possible 50 overs play today? That's 8 over with 2nd ball - should be more than enough.
 
Savak said:
Every bowling attack is different. This same Australian bowling attack will not be that effective on English pitches which aid swing and seam whereas the Australian bowlers are more fast and hit the deck bowlers. These English bowlers in England will be the second coming of Hadlee in England and will comfortably outshine the Aussies over there.
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Agree not a long term solution That is why their performance oscillate between mediocrity to invincibility. Their batsmen become monsters. Bowlers become way more potent with persistent line and length. If they want to become the 2000 Australian sides they have to start restoring the original nature of Australian pitches.
If they are scared to roll out seaming track at home how will they survive outside Australia.
 
England are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Playing on a damp wicket is obviously dangerous but drying the pitch will turn it into a rank turner for Lyon to exploit.

They should hope for more rain and for Bairstow, Malan, Moeen, Woakes and the tail to play out 30-40 overs, if we do get play eventually.
 
Now this leaking if happened in Asia would be termed as farce and will be bombarded with negative news.
 
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