NoBallZombie
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Creating a culture of cheating for the junior members to follow does not only deserve a 2 match ban. Action must be taken to stop this from happening ever again.
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Ball-tampering: Steve Smith suspended for a Test, Cameron Bancroft handed 3 demerit pts [Update#677]
- Thread starter Ozymandiasza
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Creating a culture of cheating for the junior members to follow does not only deserve a 2 match ban. Action must be taken to stop this from happening ever again.
Ab Fan
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Ball tampering has become so common now. Unfortunately, Bancroft didnt knew how to do it. Should have learnt from the master Faf.
IMHO, ball tampering should be made legal.
Atleast in odis when pitches are absolutely lifeless and life is anyways tougher for bowlers if they dont find conditions suitable for bowling.It is just my own opinion but I think this is how it should be. Life should be made easier for bowlers.
IMHO, ball tampering should be made legal.
Atleast in odis when pitches are absolutely lifeless and life is anyways tougher for bowlers if they dont find conditions suitable for bowling.It is just my own opinion but I think this is how it should be. Life should be made easier for bowlers.
Same thing was said after the brainfade incident. Like i said, it will be a disgrace if Smith is not banned for 12 months at the very least.
kingusama92
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Removing him from captaincy would be excessive.
Faf (twice), Afridi (pitch and ball!), and Atherton have all done the deed and stayed on as or gone on to become captains.
Faf (twice), Afridi (pitch and ball!), and Atherton have all done the deed and stayed on as or gone on to become captains.
AssassinatedDevil
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This whole saga is sad and hilarious at the same time. From how he tried to tamper the ball to how he had a freakout and put the tape in his trouser, the whole sequence played out like a cartoon. What i'm unsure about is what Smith means by the "leadership group". If that comprises of all the seniors like Warner, Smith, Starc etc then all of them should be handed bans. Smith should be banned for 5 matches atleast. Don't think other players from the "leadership group" will get handed such hefty bans. Bancroft should be given a severe punishment as well. This is the sort of incident that can spoil the careers of many players. They should get punished for what they did but hopefully the punishement won't have a prolonged impact on their careers.
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Great "leadership" by Smith to try and spread the blame around. What a turkey for coming up or agreeing to this stupid, cheating act and then to pretend to take "full responsibility" whilst his words actually suggest it was everyone else fault too. Finally, gutless to make the rookie who is battling to even keep his place in the team to do the dirty work.
He MUST be sacked as captain. ICC will ban Bancroft for sure and since Smith has admitted planning & instructing the cheating he will surely go too.
2 games for Bancroft might be fair and Smith??? No idea. 5 games? That would be a few months in real time.
He MUST be sacked as captain. ICC will ban Bancroft for sure and since Smith has admitted planning & instructing the cheating he will surely go too.
2 games for Bancroft might be fair and Smith??? No idea. 5 games? That would be a few months in real time.
Thomaskutty
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I was sifting through the aussie channels and many seem devastated , with some former players getting melodramatic and calling it the darkest day for cricket ; one was lamenting 'how do i explain this to my daughter' lol
AssassinatedDevil
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CA launches tampering probe
Cricket Australia Chief Executive James Sutherland has foreshadowed that further sanctions await those found to have been directly involved with the cheating charges engulfing the Test team but added any penalties won't be decided until a full investigation is concluded.
A clearly angry and upset Sutherland fronted a media conference in Melbourne today to add his voice to the shock and outrage expressed by Australian cricket fans and followers of the sport worldwide since the actions of Steve Smith's team became apparent overnight.
But in the face of calls for immediate decisions to be made on the future of Smith and other members of the team's 'leadership group' that have been implicated in the acknowledged breach of the game's laws, Sutherland stressed the need for due process to be followed.
CA's Executive General Manager Team Performance Pat Howard, along with Senior Legal Counsel and Head of Integrity Iain Roy, were dispatched to South Africa today to undertake that probe and glean the finer details of the biggest scandal to hit the national men's team in decades.
While there are no immediate plans for CA to call an extraordinary board meeting, where decisions on captaincy of the Test team are formally ratified, Sutherland made it clear that the ICC Code of Conduct charge that was accepted by Cameron Bancroft was only the beginning of the official fall-out.
Smith will continue to lead the Australia team as it enters the fourth day of the current Test at Cape Town later today, facing an uphill on-field battle to avoid defeat and a 2-1 deficit in the four-match series.
"That can't be the end of it, we have a responsibility to take this further and to understand more about the issue," Sutherland said today.
"We are extremely disappointed and shocked at what we woke up to this morning, and we are dealing with this issue with the utmost urgency and seriousness.
"We certainly don't have all of the evidence at hand and we need someone to go over there and talk to the relevant people involved to understand what happened and the detail, and then we'll make appropriate decisions as to next step."
"We're in the middle of a game, and that game needs to conclude.
"I understand that's not necessarily the fullness of response that everyone is looking for right now, but there's an element of process that needs to be undertaken here.
"By appointing our Head of Integrity to this project , it is being dealt with as a matter of urgency and seriousness."
Sutherland also confirmed that, as of midday on Sunday in Melbourne, he had not spoken with Smith pointing to time differences with South Africa (Cape Town is currently nine hours behind AEDT) as one of the complicating factors in deciding those further actions.
But he added that given his public statement two weeks ago when he reminded Smith's Test outfit "of the standards of behaviour expected of players representing Australia" after the controversy-marred first Test at Durban, he will leave the captain in no doubt as to his views of the latest furore.
"He will know," Sutherland said when asked about the tenor of his message for Smith, while stopping short of using the term 'cheating' in reference to the ball tampering charges laid by the ICC and subsequently admitted by Smith and Bancroft.
"In recent times, I've had reason to speak to Steve about the team's behaviour.
"I have very strong and clear views about the responsibilities of the Australian cricket team to play the game in the right spirit.
"I don't think that anyone there will be under any illusions within the team as to what I think about this.
"It (ball tampering) is not allowed under the laws of the game, under the Code of Conduct and quite clearly he (Bancroft) has accepted the charge."
Sutherland said one of the items that Roy will be asked to investigate and address in his subsequent report will be the make-up and role of the team's 'leadership group' that Smith identified as the source of the yesterday's decision to change the state of the ball, in contravention of cricket's laws.
Former Australia captain Michael Clarke claimed earlier today that if a decision was made to stand down Smith from his role as captain in response to the issue, then the same sanction would need to be applied to other members of the 'leadership group'.
But despite persistent questioning as to the measures that CA will impose and how far the net of responsibility will stretch for a decision that has drawn condemnation from former players and fans the world over, Sutherland reiterated the need for a full investigation to be completed.
"I'm not going to speculate on who's involved, and how far that goes," he said.
"There's been a reference to the leadership team and that's one of the things that Iain (Roy) will be charged with understanding better.
"That's an illustration of why we need to understand the facts to get a clearer picture of some of the detail and then put ourselves in a position to make some decisions.
"Clearly we've got information and understanding from the action that was taken by the ICC umpires, and beyond that from the press conference (given by Smith and Bancroft) afterwards.
"I'm not happy about this at all.
"I don't want to be here talking to you (media) but I am and it's my responsibility, but I feel like Australian cricket fans feel right now.
"My job is to understand the facts and then make a decision accordingly.
"Australian cricket fans want to be proud of their cricket team, and I think this morning they have every reason to wake up and not be proud of the team.
"It's a very sad day for Australian cricket."
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/jam...ustralia-south-africa-test-captain/2018-03-25
Cricket Australia Chief Executive James Sutherland has foreshadowed that further sanctions await those found to have been directly involved with the cheating charges engulfing the Test team but added any penalties won't be decided until a full investigation is concluded.
A clearly angry and upset Sutherland fronted a media conference in Melbourne today to add his voice to the shock and outrage expressed by Australian cricket fans and followers of the sport worldwide since the actions of Steve Smith's team became apparent overnight.
But in the face of calls for immediate decisions to be made on the future of Smith and other members of the team's 'leadership group' that have been implicated in the acknowledged breach of the game's laws, Sutherland stressed the need for due process to be followed.
CA's Executive General Manager Team Performance Pat Howard, along with Senior Legal Counsel and Head of Integrity Iain Roy, were dispatched to South Africa today to undertake that probe and glean the finer details of the biggest scandal to hit the national men's team in decades.
While there are no immediate plans for CA to call an extraordinary board meeting, where decisions on captaincy of the Test team are formally ratified, Sutherland made it clear that the ICC Code of Conduct charge that was accepted by Cameron Bancroft was only the beginning of the official fall-out.
Smith will continue to lead the Australia team as it enters the fourth day of the current Test at Cape Town later today, facing an uphill on-field battle to avoid defeat and a 2-1 deficit in the four-match series.
"That can't be the end of it, we have a responsibility to take this further and to understand more about the issue," Sutherland said today.
"We are extremely disappointed and shocked at what we woke up to this morning, and we are dealing with this issue with the utmost urgency and seriousness.
"We certainly don't have all of the evidence at hand and we need someone to go over there and talk to the relevant people involved to understand what happened and the detail, and then we'll make appropriate decisions as to next step."
"We're in the middle of a game, and that game needs to conclude.
"I understand that's not necessarily the fullness of response that everyone is looking for right now, but there's an element of process that needs to be undertaken here.
"By appointing our Head of Integrity to this project , it is being dealt with as a matter of urgency and seriousness."
Sutherland also confirmed that, as of midday on Sunday in Melbourne, he had not spoken with Smith pointing to time differences with South Africa (Cape Town is currently nine hours behind AEDT) as one of the complicating factors in deciding those further actions.
But he added that given his public statement two weeks ago when he reminded Smith's Test outfit "of the standards of behaviour expected of players representing Australia" after the controversy-marred first Test at Durban, he will leave the captain in no doubt as to his views of the latest furore.
"He will know," Sutherland said when asked about the tenor of his message for Smith, while stopping short of using the term 'cheating' in reference to the ball tampering charges laid by the ICC and subsequently admitted by Smith and Bancroft.
"In recent times, I've had reason to speak to Steve about the team's behaviour.
"I have very strong and clear views about the responsibilities of the Australian cricket team to play the game in the right spirit.
"I don't think that anyone there will be under any illusions within the team as to what I think about this.
"It (ball tampering) is not allowed under the laws of the game, under the Code of Conduct and quite clearly he (Bancroft) has accepted the charge."
Sutherland said one of the items that Roy will be asked to investigate and address in his subsequent report will be the make-up and role of the team's 'leadership group' that Smith identified as the source of the yesterday's decision to change the state of the ball, in contravention of cricket's laws.
Former Australia captain Michael Clarke claimed earlier today that if a decision was made to stand down Smith from his role as captain in response to the issue, then the same sanction would need to be applied to other members of the 'leadership group'.
But despite persistent questioning as to the measures that CA will impose and how far the net of responsibility will stretch for a decision that has drawn condemnation from former players and fans the world over, Sutherland reiterated the need for a full investigation to be completed.
"I'm not going to speculate on who's involved, and how far that goes," he said.
"There's been a reference to the leadership team and that's one of the things that Iain (Roy) will be charged with understanding better.
"That's an illustration of why we need to understand the facts to get a clearer picture of some of the detail and then put ourselves in a position to make some decisions.
"Clearly we've got information and understanding from the action that was taken by the ICC umpires, and beyond that from the press conference (given by Smith and Bancroft) afterwards.
"I'm not happy about this at all.
"I don't want to be here talking to you (media) but I am and it's my responsibility, but I feel like Australian cricket fans feel right now.
"My job is to understand the facts and then make a decision accordingly.
"Australian cricket fans want to be proud of their cricket team, and I think this morning they have every reason to wake up and not be proud of the team.
"It's a very sad day for Australian cricket."
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/jam...ustralia-south-africa-test-captain/2018-03-25
WengerOut
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How silly does Bancroft look now !! At the start of this test match , he was warning SA that Aus would use the Philander tweet to off balance SA. Look who is off balanced and falling off the cliff.
fawad_wellwisher
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The architect of this whole episode without any doubt is Lehmann. This is clearly not the first time this has happened.
The 2nd test loss, abuse that they have been suffering at the hands of the SA players and their fans, and SA ahead in the 3rd test finally got to them and they got desperate.
Rest assured this is going to be remembered for a long time and I will not be surprised if this episode brings in more regulation and rules changes from ICC.
Umpires need to be spoken to as well for not penalizing the Aussies 5 runs when it clearly showed that Bancroft was doctoring the ball.
The 2nd test loss, abuse that they have been suffering at the hands of the SA players and their fans, and SA ahead in the 3rd test finally got to them and they got desperate.
Rest assured this is going to be remembered for a long time and I will not be surprised if this episode brings in more regulation and rules changes from ICC.
Umpires need to be spoken to as well for not penalizing the Aussies 5 runs when it clearly showed that Bancroft was doctoring the ball.
Convict
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For anyone who cares this is what I believe should be happening independent of whatever ICC does which will be its usual weak hand waving.
Lehmann should be immediately dismissed.
Smith and Warner should be removed from their leadership positions and never be considered for a leadership spot again.
Smith and Warner should be suspended for the next test and for a reasonable amount of times afterwards (at least one whole test series).
Bancroft should also get a reasonable suspension.
Every team does do it but I don't care about other countries. Do dumb things cop a fair whack and then try and move on.
Lehmann should be immediately dismissed.
Smith and Warner should be removed from their leadership positions and never be considered for a leadership spot again.
Smith and Warner should be suspended for the next test and for a reasonable amount of times afterwards (at least one whole test series).
Bancroft should also get a reasonable suspension.
Every team does do it but I don't care about other countries. Do dumb things cop a fair whack and then try and move on.
BreadPakoda
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A bit too harsh but would help restore some dignity for CA. Any idea who else is part of the "leadership" team?
Convict
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Its harsh but lets face it a line needs to be drawn in the sand at some point.
Convict
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Could have pushed Bancroft in front of the bus and kept his multi million dollar a year job as Captain.
Everyone would have known the truth but if there is no evidence nothing could have been done.
Convict
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Mitch Marsh lmao
Do you think any of it will happen? Also got to commend Aussie media. They want these players to be made an example of, I know how Indian media would have behaved in the same situation.
He could have but will anyone then trust such a guy.
Convict
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Lehmann is gone and Smith won't Captain Australia ever again after this series.
It would just make things very uncomfortable for Smith captaining a team for the next few years when they all know he destroyed a player's career and then lied about it. He is smart enough to swallow the pill now rather than let it linger for the rest of his career and beyond.
It would have been reported as the start of WW3 had Pak been found guilty of such a thing. Botham and Gower etc would be telling us how "Pakistan should be permanently banned from Cricket". "Enough is enough these Pakistanis are just trouble" etc would be ringing through every media channel. He has clearly been found cheating here and caught red handed. His cheating is no better then what Amir and Butt were found guilty off even if he did not do it for money. I propose a years ban for this Aussie cheat and the entire team be given a record fine.
Kashmirilion
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It's bad but not as bad as people are making it out to be talking about lengthy bans. Yes they cheated and it was definitely premiditated most likely it's been happing all series hence Aussies getting more reverse swing then saffas. Should only be a couple of games ban the emabrassmant of this saga will haunt the players for a long time ayways. They was trying to win a game not throw it away we shouldn't be comparing this to match fixing.
Smith couldve took the blame along with Bancroft seems like he's exposed the whole setup maybe panicked?? Shouldn't have mentioned the so called "leadership group".
Smith couldve took the blame along with Bancroft seems like he's exposed the whole setup maybe panicked?? Shouldn't have mentioned the so called "leadership group".
fawad_wellwisher
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CA have the media and the public behind them to deal with those involved with an iron fist.
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Convict
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CA have the media and the public behind them to deal with those involved with an iron fist.
Mate the Australian media and public are completely against Smith and Lehmann. Check out Australian forums.
kingusama92
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Spot fixing AGAINST your country is not the same as tampering FOR your country.
What the trio did was 100x more appalling and sent them to prison.
IndianFan2018
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Don't get so emotional and riled up bro... It's ok, few fines and bans and game will go on... #cheers
fawad_wellwisher
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That's also what I am saying that CA has no justification to sweep this episode under the carpet. The public wants heads to roll. Guilty will get their punishment. The severity remains to be seen.
I didn't say it was similar. However cheating is cheating, stop trying to sugar coat it. He should still be imprisoned albeit for a shorter period. After all, Cricket commentators are often on about the harshest of punishment for perpetrators themselves.
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kingusama92
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In my opinion,
1) Lehmann should be removed
2) Smith and Bancroft should receive a 100% match fine + 2 match ban
Removal from captaincy is hard-handed and incredibly unnecessary based on precedent.
Convict
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What precedent?
Smith deliberately arranged for one of his players to cheat. He has publicly admitted to this.
There is no way he can possibly Captain Australia again.
WengerOut
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According to Smith, Lehmann is not involved
Convict
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The coach creates a culture. All of these players in the team are Lehmann era.
Whether or not he ordered it he is responsible for the situation.
fawad_wellwisher
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If anyone believes this, I have a bridge to sell that person.
Convict
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Its pretty obvious that Smith is covering for Lehmann just as he is (at least I can respect him for this) covering for Bancroft.
BreadPakoda
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My parents called me from Melbourne and while they do not watch cricket at all, even they know what's happened. The buzz is very strong there.
fawad_wellwisher
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Is this really tape? Looks like a piece of stiff plastic to me.
Itachi
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I know the post you quoted was wrong on many levels, but you have to remain the composure even after it. You are a very respected member in the forum.
fawad_wellwisher
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True.
Convict
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Sandpaper is the word over here in Aus.
WengerOut
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So [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] , after getting all the limelight on them by complaints , abuses and on the same day of registering complaints over spectators , why would they do such a stupid thing ? More than cheating I am flabbergasted by their stupidity. What is your take on that?
kingusama92
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Faf, Afridi, and Atherton.
Three different examples of captains(current or future) that tampered. All three continued to captain their teams.
Faf pleaded guilty (zipper) and so did Afridi (biting).
Asking someone to do it and doing it yourself is the same thing (In Faf's case - repeatedly). Neither should result in removal as captaincy. A heavy fine and 1-2 match ban is more than enough.
Convict
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Some have argued that they're stuck in a bit of a siege mentality at the moment as well. They definitely think Rabada got off in a manufactured outcome and they believe that Philander wasn't hacked at all. So I can see the temptation.
But it doesn't matter. They decided to cheat and they got to take the punishment.
Kashmirilion
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Don't you think he shouldve took the whole blame on himself, rather then name and shame the rest (leadership group) I mean it will be a lesson learnt anyway the sheer embarrassment to be exposed like this will be haunting the players involved for long time.
kingusama92
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His removal is for incompetency.
fawad_wellwisher
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Then it means the players involved still haven't come clean by claiming it was tape.
Convict
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Faf, Afridi and Atherton are not Australian Captains.
The Australian public does not in the end actually care about what punishments England, Pakistan and South Africa gave Faf, Afride and Atherton.
We care about CA and Steve Smith though.
The Australian national Captain has publicly admitted to cheating. To Australian cricket fans and to the wider Australian public this is unacceptable.
pillionrider
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Quite surprised by the furor in the comments section of Australian newspapers online. These fans somehow seem to think this is the worst day which makes you wonder what they thought of their team's behavior over the years. Did they really think they have never cheated, bent the rules, harangued the umpires just to win a cricket match?
Must say it is quite ironical and comical to see the reaction.
Must say it is quite ironical and comical to see the reaction.
Convict
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It is the bare minimum.
I mean there is a sizeable minority of Australian fans calling for year long suspensions for Smith.
fawad_wellwisher
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In the past cases you allude to, the public sentiment wasn't as strong against the captains as it is now against Smith and co.
Australians are a proud lot and in this case they feel their cricket team leadership has let them down. CA will be handing out stiff punishments. Lehmann being the coach is expendable.
BreadPakoda
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As the greatest side in the sport, you don't want your reputation to be tarnished by a single incident.
Big difference is that none of them delegated the junior most member of the team to do a job on the ball.All these were done on an individual level by captains without having to consult anybody else. Smith on the other hand asked bancroft to do the deed idea of which was agreed upon by the team.
There is a difference between heat of the moment actions that may cross the line and a well thought out plan to cheat.
It's a shame that this has consumed this series and Australian cricket generally. On the CA website, this story has received almost 3000 Facebook "Likes" while a story about the ongoing Sheffied Shield final - which is meant to be a big event in the country's cricket calendar - has received a grand total of 0 Likes.
kingusama92
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Everyone plays under the ICC.
It's a Level 2 offence (100% fine + 4 demerit points).
I admire the Australian media, fans, and former players and they're welcome to share their opinion but what's unfair is unfair. The penalty you're suggesting is generally reserved for a Level 4 offence (physical assault, match/spot fixing, racial slurs).
I feel a ridiculously harsh punishment will forever distance the board from its players. Especially when the ICC itself doesn't push such penalities.
pillionrider
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Fair enough.
Most crimes are treated like this. Planned always gets more criticism than a rush of blood.
kingusama92
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Afridi's pitch tampering was delegated by Younus Khan.
"Shahid Afridi was scuffing up the pitch under my instruction" - Younus Khan.
Convict
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The Australian cricket team represents Australian cricket. If the fans don't want Steve Smith as Captain he shouldn't be Captain.
I don't think ICC can meddle in CA affairs if it wants to punish smith by removing him from captaincy or sack lehmann. The punishment you are suggesting are ICC's what he is suggesting is within CA's remit not ICC's
No one knew or suspected it then, Younus Khan informed his actions 12 years after the incident, on the other hand we know today itself that smith was involved.
kingusama92
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Yes but what player has been removed from captaincy (by their home board) due to a Level 2 charge?
Convict
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He will be removed from Captaincy due to no longer being deserving of the role.
The ICC which will give the usual wink wink nudge nudge one match ban is irrelevant.
Convict
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https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricke...a/news-story/200d28dc6df519f79adcd09df3e4d1fd
Australian Sports Commission has had its say.
Australian Sports Commission has had its say.
Convict
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https://www.theage.com.au/news/cric...ngs-trescothick/2008/08/24/1219516262972.html
Vaughan is having his fun and Australian cricket is an easy target right now but I wouldn't be throwing too many stones if I were him
Joginder_Sharma
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Australian PM asks for Steven Smith to be removed as Australian Cricket Team captain. Him and Lehmann are gone. Smith will probably be banned for a few tests as well. They won't dare make Warner the captain, he's too volatile to captain a test side, I think it'll probably be Lyon to captain them in the last test and Tom Moody to take over as coach from the next series.
That depends on the board. Amir is playing cricket after being involved in spot fixing, if any Indian player ever got involved in it his cricketing career is done for whatever his age.
Convict
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Tim Paine or less likely Shaun Marsh and Justin Langer.
Aman
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The way Smith acted and tried to downplay it all makes you think he's done this many a time.
kingusama92
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I understand but why now?
Mark Waugh and Shane Warne passed on pitch reports to bookies. Warne became captain (1999) while Mark Waugh became his vice-captain in the same tournament.
Worse offenses and they still led Australia.
ads101
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Hope Smith is removed from captaincy and Lehmann fired. We need to take ball tampering seriously. Not sure who would replace Smith though. Warner I guess, though would be a little strange given his run ins.
Joginder_Sharma
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Agree about Langer but Paine or Marsh ... really don't think so. Paine only cemented his place in the last series and Marsh is as inconsistent as they come.
BreadPakoda
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Wow. Mad respect for the Ozzie authorities if they go this hard on Smith and others involved. I don't think any other board would take such steps. The zipper incident didn't affect Faf or Hash's cricketing career at all.
IndianFan2018
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Is it Fair enough..?
Don't you think ICC is setting the precedent for future captains if stakes are high can risk cheating and if caught can get away with 1 or 2 match bans
If few are caught doing the same mistake earlier...doesn't imply should allow the same in future too.
ICC can always take hard stand to remove this ball tampering malice all together. Like ICC successfully clamped down chucking and shown the door to all certified checkers
Aman
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I knew it the moment they got the old ball to move around. Couldn't have been more blatant, it never reverses in NZ.
Convict
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Paine and Marsh are experienced first class cricketers who aren't implicated by this at all. For a short term stop gap measure they are both legitimate options.
kingusama92
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Those are Level 4 charges.
Although, Australia has already shown it takes on captains with Level 4 charges (Waugh/Warne)!
Ab Fan
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Smith has been made to look like a fool from this whole incident. Given how things are folding, it seems Aussies will go into another transition phase under their new leader and it will be seen how much this incident affects Smith's batting after he comes back from a few test ban(if it happens).
Meanwhile, the fun of whole series is spoiled. Fair to say the rest of the series is just a formality now. SA has it in the bag.
Meanwhile, the fun of whole series is spoiled. Fair to say the rest of the series is just a formality now. SA has it in the bag.
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