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BJP's shrinking footprint
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hafeezrocks
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Then which party is winning? Are Indians voting against Hindutva?
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Good stuff. They can only dream of coming into power in New Delhi. 
You can only go so far with Hindu card. Sooner or later, people will see through the curtains.
Anti-incumbency and rivals forming alliances also plays a huge role. The best is the latest drama in Maharashtra when Shivsena of all parties formed an alliance with Congress
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Varun
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Maharashtra this week is hilarious. 
They're not even the BIMARU Janata Party anymore are the BJP.
They're not even the BIMARU Janata Party anymore are the BJP.
CricketCartoons
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As usual indians trying to present a wrong picture. BJP may have lost control of some important states, but hindutva is only gaining ground. The people have not changed ideology as some posters would like us to believe, but the parties have and they have moved towards the right. The center parties are now supporting soft hindutva compared to bjp's hard hindutva, but it is hindutva still.
but it is only expected. before 2014, these people were saying it is impossible that modi will win. In 2019, they said Modi is going to lose. Now they are saying hindutva is losing steam. If only they would step outside of their gated community living will they known the pulse of india.
but it is only expected. before 2014, these people were saying it is impossible that modi will win. In 2019, they said Modi is going to lose. Now they are saying hindutva is losing steam. If only they would step outside of their gated community living will they known the pulse of india.
Swashbuckler
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Kerala, Tamil Nadu (and Puducherry a union territory), Andhra are Hindutva free. These 3 states combined BJP won zero seats in this year's general election, they can't compete at any level and in state polls it will be a miracle even if they open their account.Andhra (90% Hindu pop) has a Christian CM, his family has links with missionaries from abroad. In Tamil Nadu's Ramanathapuram which is a holy place for Hindus sitting MP is a Muslim from Indian Union Muslim League. That should tell the story.
Odisha, Telangana, Punjab have less Hindutva. Obviously in Kashmir valley there won't be any Hindutva because of demographics.
Other states have more Hindutva even if it doesn't result in election victories. Some are worse than others.
Many states in North East (except Assam, Tripura) are Christian majority. They have their own parties but tend to ally with whoever rules at Centre out of political convenience. This is because they depend on funds and relaxations from the Centre. Tomorrow if communists come to power in Delhi, those Christian majority states will be waving red flags.
Slog
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You can only go so far with Hindu card. Sooner or later, people will see through the curtains.
Anti-incumbency and rivals forming alliances also plays a huge role. The best is the latest drama in Maharashtra when Shivsena of all parties formed an alliance with Congress
Are the maps in the picture relating to state governments? Because I’m assuming if we’re talking about BJP holding different constituencies at the national level it still would be a sea of orange.
It could also just be that people want BJP at national level since that decides direction of the country (Hindu rashtra,relation with Pakistan etc) but for actual on ground issues which are normally solved by state and local governments they choose the more practical choice.
Finally Ram Mandir issue is solved, there’s clear movement towards being a Hindu state, so called minority appeasement is ending and Muslims are being dealt in a tough manner (Kashmir and Assad) so the focus of conversation is finally moving towards development and unemployment which are metrics the BJP government has fared poorly in. As a result they will be punished
CricketCartoons
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In short you counted the politically irrelevant states as hindutva free ( you are wrong about odisha though).
CricketCartoons
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Just because bjp lost maharashtra ( they won 70% of the seats they contested), doesn't mean hindutva has lost another state. Go and see mumbai if you want to know the relationship between hindus and muslims.
very misleading map and i wonder if it is out of ignorance or done on purpose by some posters to make india appear a mainly secular country.
very misleading map and i wonder if it is out of ignorance or done on purpose by some posters to make india appear a mainly secular country.
Varun
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Need to get them out of Karnataka soon.
That said, we don't want that cartoon Kumaraswamy either.
That said, we don't want that cartoon Kumaraswamy either.
Swashbuckler
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Being from Bengal don't talk about which state is politically relevant or irrelevant. Those so called irrelevant states must have combined population of at least 160 million and 85 Lok Sabha seats.
CricketCartoons
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How does the state I was born in matter anyway? ( I have shifted base to Tamil Nadu now).
These states are politically irrelevant because they don't decide who rules New Delhi. It may hurt you, but it is the truth. How many PMs from these "politically relevant states" (according to you)?
Swashbuckler
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State governments yes, but a few mistakes.
Refer to post 7 and see the map in this link. You can choose BJP from the options, if you are looking for Hindutva parties Shiv Sena (SS) will be the other party. JDU may be shown as saffron but it isn't a Hindutva party, it formed a pre-poll alliance with BJP for other reasons which will need a lengthier explanation from my side.
https://www.ndtv.com/elections/indian-general-election-results-2019-map-wise
Swashbuckler
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How many PMs from Maharashtra?
How many from Bengal?
How many from Assam? Don't quote the Manmohan Singh Rajya Sabha seat.
How many from Haryana?
How many from Rajasthan?
How many from JK?
How many from Odisha?
You want me to go on.
These 3 so called irrelevant states have decided the Central government many times in the past, based on 2014 and 2019 don't think absolute majority is the norm in Indian politics. Remember UPA regime?
CricketCartoons
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I agree the number of PMs from any state is not a right measure of its relevancy. It was a rhetorical question ( which means you don't have to reply ).
Kerala, Tamil Nadu are anti BJP, yet they are not able to do anything to prevent BJP coming to power. That itself tells you how much politically relevant they are.
I understand your frustration because you know it is the truth. Kovil angadaan pannuvom.
Swashbuckler
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First of all I echo the sentiments of [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]. Just because BJP isn't in power in some states doesn't mean the Hindutva factor is gone. Often Indians vote differently for national and state elections. Also some parties are practicing soft Hindutva, in Maharashtra Congress and NCP are allying with a radical Hindutva party called Shiv Sena to keep BJP out. It will also be disingenuous to claim that Hindutva is on the wane based on those maps especially if you followed the general election and recent news. In the Hindi belt where Congress has somewhat regained power in state elections, people voted for BJP in national election earlier this year.
The maps are inaccurate. For instance BJP wasn't in power in Andhra Pradesh in 2017 Dec. A regional party called TDP was in power with 102/175 seats. YSRC the opposition party had 67,BJP just 4. But TDP joined NDA hoping for special status and when BJP didn't give them that they walked away. Only a lunatic will say BJP was in power in Andhra with 4 out of 175 seats. Both in 2017 and 2019 Delhi (20-30 million population) has been under AAP. In JK it was a PDP-BJP combo with BJP being junior partner, but granted BJP had a lot of say there. As I explained in another post, in those Christian majority states in North East allying with Centre is a political compulsion. For instance in Meghalaya BJP won 2 out of 60 seats, local parties formed an alliance and included BJP, had Congress been in Centre they would have allied with Congress. Look at Mizoram. If BJP really holds sway in those places ask them to ban beef there. Likewise Congress-JDS was in power in Karnataka but BJP split them by dubious means, in Maharashtra Hindutva got the mandate but Congress/NCP/Shiv Sena has emerged triumphant in post-poll alliance. Too simplistic to look at the map and make conclusions. This needs a more elaborate analysis.
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Itachi
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Seems like People from South have very less knowledge about NE and WB. And its abit unfortunate coming from an Indian.
JaDed
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Which Part? You have Hindutva goons?
JaDed
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If BJP doesn't come in UP, it will not form a govn. That is the most relevant state in terms of political seats.
And hopefully the caste politics which Shah has played beautifully other parties(which have done that as well) would now be able to figure out and reduce the presence of BJP.
Always told you, Yedi (and BJP) are cancer for any state. Great to see you having seen the light.
He comes from a state which has given a no name (and cancerous) party the majority. And they're reaping what they sowed!
Great for states. However still extremely bleak for Indian union.
As far as states are concerned, mota bhai & event manager would've got this drilled in their poisonous minds especially from the events of MH this week that everyone is not up for sale. And that everyone is not scared of their pets like ED and CBI.
Kind of politics these gutter level power brokers have indulged in during last 5-odd years doesn't come without consequences.
You can only go so far with Hindu card. Sooner or later, people will see through the curtains.
Anti-incumbency and rivals forming alliances also plays a huge role. The best is the latest drama in Maharashtra when Shivsena of all parties formed an alliance with Congress
BJP is no saint and rightly got a lesson in MH for trying to be a bully. But how interesting it is that a so called secular party favoured by most here getting into an alliance with a party which is more right wing than BJP. Just shows that politics reflects truly our populace in terms of hypocrisy and preserving self interest.
Not really gullible but more of double standards and hypocrisy.
Yeah, truly laughable though they've aligned with Congress in the past in Indira days.Anti-incumbency and rivals forming alliances also plays a huge role. The best is the latest drama in Maharashtra when Shivsena of all parties formed an alliance with Congress
Did you look at the alacrity with which event manager congratulated Fadnavis & Ajit within minutes of them being sworn in by that puppet who himself had serious corruption charges against him as BJP leader in UK?
You are saying that because it has too much power today . But if you look at history, SS has been actually a more right wing party, causing much more social disharmony compared to what BJP has been. I don't deny though that too much power in hands of BJP has caused lot of harm to the balance of political power, as such you see that SS and Congress in an alliance for the sake of survival. The only thing that can be more amusing than this pact is an alliance between BJP and MIM, but I won't be surprised though if that happens in future.
That's nothing compared to MIM and BJP in case you are familiar with politics.
Correct, but whose power is actually legitimate?
lol, nothing? Really? Do you really think the PDP-BJP alliance was still more compatible than say MIM-BJP alliance? Because if you do, I think you're the one who needs a bit of crash course in politics....
Quite a few. States like Gujarat, UP, Jharkhand, UK, HP, Tripura, Assam etc where BJP has been chosen by electorate in legitimate ways, gullible or not.
States where it has illegitimate power, Karnataka, Sikkim, Manipur, Goa, Bihar, Nagaland, Arunachal, Meghalaya, basically entire NE due to that corrupt power broker, Sarma.
Well politics is like that, one can never stay that they have seen all. Purely from a political alliance standpoint most do not have legitimacy that you have referred to. An example could be a potential alliance between AAP and Congress. I have seen similar polar opposite forces come together in past example - Cong and CPIM in West Bengal and a under the table understanding between CPIM and BJP (not direct) during the WB Loksabha polls this year. These are very much " illegitimate alliances " but do remember has tacit support from their electorates. I can tell you with conviction that a PDP- BJP alliance is nothing when compared to these alliances that I mentioned above.
In our system rarely a political party gets chosen on moralistic grounds. There are enough grey areas for BJP in Tripura and UP. Probably more than Bihar and Karnataka. By the way, the prior Karnataka govt was equally illegitimate by that same benchmark.
It wasn't. Unlike BJP's act of buying opposition MLAs, JD (S) & Congress didn't go on MLA shopping, instead entered into a post poll alliance with their respective MLA strength to form a government as you can't have elections after every hung assembly/parliament.
Also, if what you say is true, then there won't be many govts formed in India as post poll alliances are necessary where there is a hung assembly which I may point are quite a few. There won't be any government in Haryana either if BJP & JJP didn't enter into a post poll alliance.
In fact these 2 states portray absolutely opposite of what you're trying to say. Those 2 state governments are immoral in every sense of the word. Can't decide which one is more immoral, so would put both of them on equal pedestal!
Fair enough, your opinion and you're entitled to it. To me, PDP-BJP alliance was bizarre, absolutely bizarre.
pillionrider
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Modi's political career was saved by Bal Thackeray. He may not be anymore, but Modi's gonna have to pay badly for rubbing the Sena the wrong way.
My enemy's enemy is my friend. Anyway, have agreed in the past with certain aspects of the Shiv Sena's ideology even though they were anti-South Indians at one point.
My enemy's enemy is my friend. Anyway, have agreed in the past with certain aspects of the Shiv Sena's ideology even though they were anti-South Indians at one point.
This map is a loss for every dodo who believed in Congress mukt Bharat and a win for every dodo who believed Modi is a fascist, wannabe dictator and democracy is in danger. For everyone else this is par for the course and how democracy has always played out in our country
Uddhav should have never become the chief minister, certainly not with Congress and NCP who are ideologically opposed to him. He has been known for having a large ego which makes him difficult to work with, the reason why so many leaders deserted the Sena when Balasahebs health deteriorated.
If he bumbles in the CMs post he will be destroying the last of the legacy of his father and leaving his sons future in tatters. Aditya is a far more likeable leader than Uddhav and would have been the CM one day if his father had not jumped the gun.
Their entire pre poll posture has been a three way each others throat. I am not sure by what measure a JDS Congress alliance is more legitimate when compared to say what BJP is done. Granted BJP is bullying through all opposition with compete disregard to any institutional clause, but so does all political parties. BJP has bought in MLAs through unaccounted money while Congress and JDS have tried to sustain their bases through an alliance that has nothing common about it and is a direct reversal of their pre poll promises to their electorates. How is one better than the other is not very clear to me. Corruption is not just about money but any other form of material benefit as well.
As I said above, if what you say holds true then there won't be any governments in India in case of hung assemblies/parliament.
Post poll alliances are needed in a democracy, since you can't have elections every other month.
PS: It is always better to have a CMP in case of disparate ideologies of 2 alliance partners than to have to resort to buy opposition law makers by money/ED/CBI and what not!
Also as we have seen so many times in case of event manager's rein, single party rule could also prove to be disaster for India. Alliances (even if they've come off from different ideologies) aren't necessarily bad for our democracy as a whole and vice versa.
Disagree but again completely understand that each individual will have their own political preferences and thoughtprocess that will eventually determine their picks and dislikes. That does not necessarily mean that it is right or wrong in greater scheme of things, but that's how human mind works.
As an individual I am more concerned with institutional override and dilution that BJP has committed along with direct endorsements of social disharmony rather than promoting defection of opposition MLAs . Not that the latter is right , infact it is a practice that is corrupt to the core but Congress, TMC, AAP and others are doing it as well maybe not through money but by other means. They are equally guilty if not more on going back on their promises, indulging into corruption and unholy power play . For me diluting checks and balances in our system is the most harmful thing and leveraging it discretely to its own benefit is a great concern , an offence that can surely be attributed to current BJP leadership.
Swashbuckler
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BJP set to get smashed, all opinion polls give 50+ to AAP out of 70.
Now BJP tards saying this election isn't about Delhi but India vs Pakistan.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">���������� <br>���� <br>���������������� <br><br>8���� ���������������� <br>���������� <br><br>8 फरवरी को दिल्ली की सड़कों पर हिंदुस्तान और पाकिस्तान का मुकाबला होगा</p>— Kapil Mishra (@KapilMishra_IND) <a href="https://twitter.com/KapilMishra_IND/status/1220213605359992833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Many were unhappy that I didn’t include Congress in Yesterday’s version. <br>Updated Maslow’s pyramid. <a href="https://t.co/kmHkmXaz5i">pic.twitter.com/kmHkmXaz5i</a></p>— Aravinda Tegginamath (@arvindtm) <a href="https://twitter.com/arvindtm/status/1220532015683923968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Now BJP tards saying this election isn't about Delhi but India vs Pakistan.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">���������� <br>���� <br>���������������� <br><br>8���� ���������������� <br>���������� <br><br>8 फरवरी को दिल्ली की सड़कों पर हिंदुस्तान और पाकिस्तान का मुकाबला होगा</p>— Kapil Mishra (@KapilMishra_IND) <a href="https://twitter.com/KapilMishra_IND/status/1220213605359992833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Many were unhappy that I didn’t include Congress in Yesterday’s version. <br>Updated Maslow’s pyramid. <a href="https://t.co/kmHkmXaz5i">pic.twitter.com/kmHkmXaz5i</a></p>— Aravinda Tegginamath (@arvindtm) <a href="https://twitter.com/arvindtm/status/1220532015683923968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
CricketCartoons
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This is not relevant to the thread. BJP has no footprint in delhi which can shrink when it comes to state elections.
AAP will easily get 45+. Every 2 out of 5 BJP supporters votes for AAP when it comes to local elections.
RedwoodOriginal
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BJP govt. seems to be obsessed with Pakistan. It's like their get out of jail free card. I'm surprised Modi has not blamed the protests on Pakistan.
Swashbuckler
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Not Modi, but some other BJP leaders have brought in the Pakistan, ISI angle here. They will never change.
RedwoodOriginal
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That's an old one. If I had a dime for everytime I heard an Indian general, journalist or politician blame the ISI or talk about the nefarious designs of the ISI and the deep state, I would be pretty rich.
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