Can Virat Kohli be the greatest ODI batsman even without a stellar World Cup performance?

[Shandarchowka]

Did you know that Kohli was the top scorer in the CT final that won?

The final India won was farcical and a glorified T20 game. There's a reason no one takes it seriously. Kohli's true chance was in 2017 when he could have christened his name as the greatest by chasing against the arch rivals and the best bowling attack of the tournament and he failed. Sadly people will remember those 2 balls from Amir to Kohli.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan having the better head to head record even after being down for nearly two decades is a sign of how good our team was back in the day. The only blemish Pakistan has is not winning world cup matches against India but I see that getting better this year. In England conditions, Indian batsmen won't be able to cope with the swing of Amir. Now we also have Shaheen in addition to Amir. Good luck.

H2H record doesn't count for Pakistan same way it doesn't count when it comes to Gilchrist's sub-par overall 35 average.

 

[Shandarchowka]

H2H record doesn't count for Pakistan same way it doesn't count when it comes to Gilchrist's sub-par overall 35 average.

'Sub-par' average of 35.9 (~36) at a strike rate of 96.9 (~97) opening the batting on tough Australian pitches amd also keeping to possibly the best bowling attack on them and blowing away opposition in a world final, all alone. Yes, very average cricketer.

As I said, the stats make him great, but world cup knocks make him the greatest. Clearly Kohli is yet to achieve the 2nd set.

 

[Pakhs]

You can have your opinion but Viv is below Sachin.. Kohli will be GOAT by the time his career finishes but let's wait for it to end.

If we are talking about only ODIs then unless you are slightly biased Viv was definitely a better player.

 

[big_gamer007]

If we are talking about only ODIs then unless you are slightly biased Viv was definitely a better player.

Nope Viv was ahead of his time but he played ODI when it was still in its infancy.. Lot of players didn't take it seriously and Viv didn't have to face his own bowlers..

Viv never had to face doosra, slower balls, slower balls bouncers, potent reverse swings, power plays, power hitters, 300+ total chases etc etc The reason why Sachin is the best as ponting mentioned in one of the interviews he played across different eras and dealt with all the innovations of modern game... Viv played only one era and he was absolute best in it, however Sachin dominated and was a top 5 batsmen in all eras he played.

He wins out easily.

 

[Pakhs]

Nope Viv was ahead of his time but he played ODI when it was still in its infancy.. Lot of players didn't take it seriously and Viv didn't have to face his own bowlers..

Viv never had to face doosra, slower balls, slower balls bouncers, potent reverse swings, power plays, power hitters, 300+ total chases etc etc The reason why Sachin is the best as ponting mentioned in one of the interviews he played across different eras and dealt with all the innovations of modern game... Viv played only one era and he was absolute best in it, however Sachin dominated and was a top 5 batsmen in all eras he played.

He wins out easily.

Viv was way ahead of the rest, I am sorry but Sachin was never way ahead of the rest in anytime. He was not the greatest match winner in anytime except maybe for a brief period around 96-98. A lot of the Sachin runs came in the lost causes scoring at a lower strike rate than required. That we discuss him in this conversation is only due to his overall record in ODIs otherwise he was not a match to Viv who once scored will just demolish the opposition and get the job done. Where Sachin will Score a 100 and the run rate required will go up and then get out and his team lost many times.

Sachin was upstaged by Sehwag many times during his career alone. I know you are Indian so naturally you would have a tendency of favoring Sachin over anything else.

 

[gh54785]

Kohli is the greatest ODI player of all time and test ATG in the making. His stats back up this statement. Those who say otherwise are just salty haters who are just jealous of the fact that there is no player in their team 1/10th as talented as Kohli. People constantly put up ridiculous hurdles in front Kohli just for him to smash them every damn time. People used his poor 2014 english tour as excuse that he can't play swing and now having dominated the whole 2018 tour they say he needs to perform in WC. Laughable jokers these.

 

[Pakhs]

Kohli is the greatest ODI player of all time and test ATG in the making. His stats back up this statement. Those who say otherwise are just salty haters who are just jealous of the fact that there is no player in their team 1/10th as talented as Kohli. People constantly put up ridiculous hurdles in front Kohli just for him to smash them every damn time. People used his poor 2014 english tour as excuse that he can't play swing and now having dominated the whole 2018 tour they say he needs to perform in WC. Laughable jokers these.

He is not the greatest ODI player yet but easily on his way of becoming one before he finishes his career. You need to take it easy because people do have a point, he does need a good WC to further cement his place as the greatest ever yet.

 

[MP2011]

Viv was way ahead of the rest, I am sorry but Sachin was never way ahead of the rest in anytime. He was not the greatest match winner in anytime except maybe for a brief period around 96-98. A lot of the Sachin runs came in the lost causes scoring at a lower strike rate than required. That we discuss him in this conversation is only due to his overall record in ODIs otherwise he was not a match to Viv who once scored will just demolish the opposition and get the job done. Where Sachin will Score a 100 and the run rate required will go up and then get out and his team lost many times.

Sachin was upstaged by Sehwag many times during his career alone. I know you are Indian so naturally you would have a tendency of favoring Sachin over anything else.

Are you for real? There are so many inaccuracies in this post that I don't know where to start!

BTW, have you even seen him play LIVE?

 

[Pakhs]

Are you for real? There are so many inaccuracies in this post that I don't know where to start!

BTW, have you even seen him play LIVE?

What is inaccurate? Was Sachin scoring faster than say Gilchrist? or even his own partner Shewag? Viv was scoring more and faster than anybody at the time he was playing. Sorry Sachin was very very good but Viv was better. And to answer you later question i saw all of Sachin Career live and never thought if he scored game over there was always more fear around Gilchrist, Shewag etc.

 

[MP2011]

Sehwag isn't even a top-5 Indian ODI bat. Here are my top-5 Indian ODI bats,

1) Tendulkar
2) Kohli
3) Dhoni
4) Rohit
5) Ganguly/Yuvraj
6) Dhawan

 

[MP2011]

Was Sachin scoring faster than say Gilchrist? or even his own partner Shewag? Viv was scoring more and faster than anybody at the time he was playing.

So only thing which matters is 'scoring faster'. By that token, Afridi must be one of greatest ever ODI bats.

 

[big_gamer007]

Viv was way ahead of the rest, I am sorry but Sachin was never way ahead of the rest in anytime. He was not the greatest match winner in anytime except maybe for a brief period around 96-98. A lot of the Sachin runs came in the lost causes scoring at a lower strike rate than required. That we discuss him in this conversation is only due to his overall record in ODIs otherwise he was not a match to Viv who once scored will just demolish the opposition and get the job done. Where Sachin will Score a 100 and the run rate required will go up and then get out and his team lost many times.

Sachin was upstaged by Sehwag many times during his career alone. I know you are Indian so naturally you would have a tendency of favoring Sachin over anything else.

I am biased for Sachin but regardless of that I would not have said he is the greatest batsmen if he was not..

Viv played in amateur era for ODI cricket and did the best amongst others who were crap.. Sachin played all the way till when ODI cricket upstaged test matches and performed consistently. Viv played mostly when 60 overs 8 ball overs were there and average score was like 200ish.. it was easier to bat at that time because you knew if you had talent like Viv had he can easily get his team to 200+ and they will win the match.. If Viv had played till 2013 he would have been upstaged by sehwag, Gilchrist, ponting, lara etc through various phases of his career. That is only natural however whAt sets Sachin apart is that throughout those 24 years (well maybe 22 last 2 years weren't his best) he was consistently amongst the top batsmen, not the best always but still in top 5 or top 10.

Sachin played in an era when even 300 was chase able, he had to take more risk and evolve his game..

Viv might be the better match winner however as the best batsmen sachin wins because of him being so consistent throughout the eras.

 

[RamLakhan]

One point that everyone is missing is: Vivian, Gilchrist, Ponting played for stronger teams! So the situation/mindset/pressure plays a role in the individual performance of a player! Gilchrist had to chase a paltry 100 odd runs in a WC Finals! Aravinda had very average stats/records (he is a great player no doubt!) but won a world cup for his country! (Because the whole Sri Lankan team was performing at their peak and they had the momentum, everything fell in their place!) Same thing goes with Dhoni's 2011 heroics!

So the criteria to undermine Kohli is if India goes on to win the WC (or at least reaches finals) but he fails miserably in that! That is when you can actually call a player as bad/choker! The ODI record (the collection of bilaterals) actually says that he has dominated most teams in most places, that is actually enough to judge the quality of player! (his skills, technique & temperament) But if you just talk about a particular tournament, then even the "team" composition/form at that point will come into equation and pressure-handling will come into picture (besides skills) which will reflect from the team!

Kohli has played just 2 world cups so far! In the first one he was just a rookie and in the 2nd one the team did very badly (bad team)... Another WC is just around the corner and he potentially has 1 or 2 more chances after that! So with all these in hand, you can definitely not put down Kohli's fascinating record/career so far!

 

[Pakhs]

So only thing which matters is 'scoring faster'. By that token, Afridi must be one of greatest ever ODI bats.

Afridi didnt score enough runs, But Shewag and Gilchrist did. Sachin was even upstaged by Hayden for a few years. He is better than the ones mentioned above only because of his long and consistent career but he was by no means a match winner of highest quality like Viv.

 

[Pakhs]

I am biased for Sachin but regardless of that I would not have said he is the greatest batsmen if he was not..

Viv played in amateur era for ODI cricket and did the best amongst others who were crap.. Sachin played all the way till when ODI cricket upstaged test matches and performed consistently. Viv played mostly when 60 overs 8 ball overs were there and average score was like 200ish.. it was easier to bat at that time because you knew if you had talent like Viv had he can easily get his team to 200+ and they will win the match.. If Viv had played till 2013 he would have been upstaged by sehwag, Gilchrist, ponting, lara etc through various phases of his career. That is only natural however whAt sets Sachin apart is that throughout those 24 years (well maybe 22 last 2 years weren't his best) he was consistently amongst the top batsmen, not the best always but still in top 5 or top 10.

Sachin played in an era when even 300 was chase able, he had to take more risk and evolve his game..

Viv might be the better match winner however as the best batsmen sachin wins because of him being so consistent throughout the eras.

If we are talking over all best players accros formats I would say Sachin might just shade it over Viv but if you are talking just ODIs then definitely Viv was ahead. You have said few things to discount Viv achievements but forgot to mention the bats which were nowhere as good and pitches which were not specially made for heavy scoring. Viv just demolished every bowling attack regardless.

 

[tinkud]

The mind just boggles at the frequency of Kohli's century making.

Between today and the end of world cup, there is 1 ODI against Australia, 5 against NZ, and 9 in the WC roundrobin league - i.e. at least 15 matches even if India does not go through to the WC knockouts. He should have at least 5 more centuries in those 15 matches, even if he is rested in a few matches here and there.

Just enjoy the cricketer, whoever it is, as long as he is in such form. Too much of the debate is on objective ranking in a subjective world. Does it matter when somebody's all time favourite cricketer is not somebody else's all time favourite?

 

[MP2011]

Afridi didnt score enough runs, But Shewag and Gilchrist did. Sachin was even upstaged by Hayden for a few years. He is better than the ones mentioned above only because of his long and consistent career but he was by no means a match winner of highest quality like Viv.

lol at Tendulkar being rated only due to his long career. As if it is child's play!

As for Sehwag & Gilly, both of them average significantly lower than Tendulkar which is given because of high risk game both of them played.

As for Hayden upstaging Tendulkar, well may be during Tendulkar's TE injury days, but not before that and certainly not after that.

 

[big_gamer007]

If we are talking over all best players accros formats I would say Sachin might just shade it over Viv but if you are talking just ODIs then definitely Viv was ahead. You have said few things to discount Viv achievements but forgot to mention the bats which were nowhere as good and pitches which were not specially made for heavy scoring. Viv just demolished every bowling attack regardless.

That's the point Sachin played with smaller bats and played with long boundary sizes and difficult pitches as well. He started in 1988/89 and continued till 2013.. Also it's a common myth that all pitches were dynamite during Viv's era, some of the pitches were as flat as today if not more and to top it all off the bowling standards were not as evolved as in later eras in ODIs.

If you want to believe Viv is better than Sachin it is fine you can have your opinion and there is nothing wrong in it.. However I have given my reasons and I believe Sachin shades Viv in ODIs.. Viv's case of being best like Bradmans case is based on speculations and assumptions that what they could have done when facing the challenges of modern game. Would they have evolved their game or was their ceiling what we had seen? Ultimately there's a strong chance they would have evolved to modern game but there's a small chance that their ceiling was reached and they would not have done as well..

Sachin wins because he showed he can do it across eras and has actual facts and performances rather than speculations..
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] might give you better insights I am bad at explaining and typing.

 

[MP2011]

Nobody has seen and conquered as many batting eras as Tendulkar has.

Early '90s - Runs were hard to come by. Tendulkar did well.

Mid and late '90s - Runs were scored freely but totals in excess of 300 were not a norm. Tendulkar did exceedingly well during this period. Had an awesome WC '96 and middling WC '99.

Early '00s - Runs started to come more and more freely. Tendulkar still did well, had an awesome WC '03.

Mid and late '00s - During mid '00s, Tendulkar didn't do as well as he did earlier due to variety of reasons. Had a poor WC '07. However he did exceedingly well in late '00s. In fact, it was his second birth as a batsman. He cut out risks from his batting and results were there for everyone to see. Was world's best batsman even during twilight of his career.

Early '10s - Run scoring got even more fluent. Tendulkar had an excellent WC '11.

 

[Balthazar]

The next World cup being a round-robin format, expect some records to be broken by Kohli. It's not like he hasn't performed in World tournaments, example T20 World Cups.

 

[captain.hansolo]

Do keep in mind that in addition to the above, for a non insignificant period, Vic Richards played the ODI game when each side had 60 overs. That gives you ample time to get your eye in, and pace yourself.

Just imagine what a Kohli or Rohit could do with another 10 overs!!! We would see an ODI triple ton each year.

 

[tinkud]

Because the WC format is round robin with so many teams and some of them weaker than others, it is not a long shot if Kohli's aggregate hits the highest ever in a full WC by any player.

 

[aukhan]

He is already the greatest ever in this format. Sachin and Viv are nothing in front of him.

Kohli is the undisputed king.

 

[Pakhs]

lol at Tendulkar being rated only due to his long career. As if it is child's play!

As for Sehwag & Gilly, both of them average significantly lower than Tendulkar which is given because of high risk game both of them played.

As for Hayden upstaging Tendulkar, well may be during Tendulkar's TE injury days, but not before that and certainly not after that.

That's the point Sachin played with smaller bats and played with long boundary sizes and difficult pitches as well. He started in 1988/89 and continued till 2013.. Also it's a common myth that all pitches were dynamite during Viv's era, some of the pitches were as flat as today if not more and to top it all off the bowling standards were not as evolved as in later eras in ODIs.

If you want to believe Viv is better than Sachin it is fine you can have your opinion and there is nothing wrong in it.. However I have given my reasons and I believe Sachin shades Viv in ODIs.. Viv's case of being best like Bradmans case is based on speculations and assumptions that what they could have done when facing the challenges of modern game. Would they have evolved their game or was their ceiling what we had seen? Ultimately there's a strong chance they would have evolved to modern game but there's a small chance that their ceiling was reached and they would not have done as well..

Sachin wins because he showed he can do it across eras and has actual facts and performances rather than speculations..
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] might give you better insights I am bad at explaining and typing.

Well in the end its comes to the personal preference but I fail to understand the argument that Viv is not the best we have seen in ODIs so far. Only Kholi is looking like he may take over from him.

 

[Mp812]

Unless Kohli gets a 100 in every game in a World Cup and a 100 in the final he will never be an atg.

What if he does not score a 100 in world cup practice game.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Batsmen usually peak at 30. lol But this guy is already with 39 ODI centuries when he is touching his peak.


At the age of 30 years 72 days

Richards
41 innings 1750 runs 51.47 avergee 82.35 strike rate 3 centuries

Kohli
210 innings 10339 runs 59.76 averg 92.84 strike rate 39 centuries

Tendulkar
305 innings 12219 runs 44.43 average 86.5 strike rate 34 centuries


He is already far and ahead of Richards. Given the amount of ODIs they play he is going to leave both Sachin and Ricahrds to dust. Yes decent WC is good. So far 2 centuries in world cups. He will end up with more. I have seen Ricahrds,Tendulkar, Kohli live. But nobody is more bloodyminded than this guy. Utter determination. Richards was so good as long as his hand-eye coordination was really good. He looked really awful after that. Smashed pathetic Srilankan side to boost his stats.


Richards was good for like 10 years. At one point averaging 57 in the ODIs. His last 6 years

79 matches 2171 runs 34.46 avge 89.19 Strike rate

 

[Indiafan]

The final India won was farcical and a glorified T20 game. There's a reason no one takes it seriously. Kohli's true chance was in 2017 when he could have christened his name as the greatest by chasing against the arch rivals and the best bowling attack of the tournament and he failed. Sadly people will remember those 2 balls from Amir to Kohli.

A glorified t20 contest when the chasing team couldn't even score at 6 an over. I think this post reeks of biasedness and double standards. On a pitch where teams struggled to score at 6 per over, kohli shouldn't get credit. On the other hand a score of 330+ has never been chased in any major tournament in history of cricket. But Amir should get credit for defending a total even Zimbabwe bowlers could have defended? Laugh worthy

 

[rhony]

The final India won was farcical and a glorified T20 game. There's a reason no one takes it seriously. Kohli's true chance was in 2017 when he could have christened his name as the greatest by chasing against the arch rivals and the best bowling attack of the tournament and he failed. Sadly people will remember those 2 balls from Amir to Kohli.

No one takes a CT win seriously? Lol OK! Kohli had many chances and will still get many chances. He's at the peak of his powers and there's no reason why he wouldnt score the next time.

 

[unitedkush]

Yes, he can be. His numbers speak for itself. Although I question why OP decided to create a thread on this forum where folks have been long using filters to push their agendas. For years, many blinkered posters on this forum pushed the narrative of Kohli being unable to play swing/seam. Kohli goes on to dominate in SA and England in bowler friendly conditions only for his performances to be discredited because it didn't result in a Test-series win. It's just tiresome at this point, the filters will never end and usual bitter suspects will find new ones.


Also, one needs to keep in mind that there are no Super-Six/Super-Eight stages anymore, so 'knockouts' basically dub out to Semis and if the team progresses a Final. Imagine overlooking a players entire career and to crystal it down to basically 1 or 2 performance. It's just ludicrous.

 

[unitedkush]

No one takes a CT win seriously? Lol OK! Kohli had many chances and will still get many chances. He's at the peak of his powers and there's no reason why he wouldnt score the next time.

Why are you even engaging with them at this point? It's usual gibberish from usual suspects. Nothing to write home about.

Why do you think people completely take iT20s out of the equation when discussing Kohli's LOI exploits on here? Because it doesn't suit their agenda, whatever metric/filters they can dish out for this particular format Kohli comes up trumps, a group stage game becomes a virtual QF? Check. Big score in a SF? Check. Big score in a Final? Check. Man of the Tournament? Check. Save your energy and sanity my friend, few things are not worth debating on certain platforms.

 

[Shandarchowka]

No one takes a CT win seriously? Lol OK! Kohli had many chances and will still get many chances. He's at the peak of his powers and there's no reason why he wouldnt score the next time.

He blew the chances he got so far. Failed against Pakistan in 2011 WC Semis, failed against 2015 against Australia in 2015 Semis, and failed miserably by getting out twice in 2 balls against Pakistan in all important 2017 CT finals. Going by the track record, I'd not be hopeful if I'm an Indian fan.

 

[Shandarchowka]

A glorified t20 contest when the chasing team couldn't even score at 6 an over. I think this post reeks of biasedness and double standards. On a pitch where teams struggled to score at 6 per over, kohli shouldn't get credit. On the other hand a score of 330+ has never been chased in any major tournament in history of cricket. But Amir should get credit for defending a total even Zimbabwe bowlers could have defended? Laugh worthy

Kohl came with the reputation of 'best chaser' in the world. You'd expect him to chase that total down to justify his tag. But sadly he hasn't. Zimbabwe bowlers? They didn't even qualify so that's a moot point to discuss.

 

[big_gamer007]

Well in the end its comes to the personal preference but I fail to understand the argument that Viv is not the best we have seen in ODIs so far. Only Kholi is looking like he may take over from him.

You fail to understand because you have already made up your mind, I have given you all the reasons but you won't accept since in your mind Viv is the best.

Secondly people who rate Viv or Bradman as the best have never followed their entire career, no one on this forum has watched Viv's entire career all they see are the best innings from Viv and stats on cric info or listen to old greats glorify their era stars and make up their mind.. Sachin/ponting/kohli etc don't have this benefit since people now watch their bad form and can watch every ball of every innings they play because of the data available..

Don't let anyone fool you here that they have watched Viv's entire career, they night have followed his career but not "watched" ..

 

[BDfanforever]

Yes. Virat Kholi, Rohit Sharma and Shikar Dhawan are all technically better than Tendulkar, Dravid, and Ganguly trio of the past.

 

[WengerOut]

Yes. Virat Kholi, Rohit Sharma and Shikar Dhawan are all technically better than Tendulkar, Dravid, and Ganguly trio of the past.

Classic PP tactics. Bring old indian legends to thread about new ones and watch Indians sling mud at each other.

 

[anoop]

Virat is already the greatest.
Sachin comes 2nd
Ponting 3rd
Viv 4th
AB 5th

Kohli has already proved himself in WC by scoring a century against Pakistan and winning the game. This knockout filter is irrelevant in Indian context. India v Pakistan is itself a pressure game and India has an added pressure of maintaining the winning streak.

 

[anoop]

Yes. Virat Kholi, Rohit Sharma and Shikar Dhawan are all technically better than Tendulkar, Dravid, and Ganguly trio of the past.

Six great batsmen of Asia but Kohli still dwarfs other 5.

 

[Ab Fan]

India's greatest batsmen in ODIs: -

SRT
Kohli(should surpass SRT when retires)
Dhoni
Rohit
Yuvraj
Ganguly
Dhawan
Sehwag

 

[Ab Fan]

Greatest ODI batsmen ever: -

Viv
SRT
Ponting
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Bevan

 

[Stalin]

If Don Bradman is considered the greatest bat of all time , even without playing a single world cup let alone winning it , then surely Kohli can be called the greatest odi batsman of all time as he has played in a world cup and actually won it.

People can try their best to put him down as much as they can , even though their players are not even an ounce of a player he is , but they cannot escape the reality.

 

[Hitman]

Six great batsmen of Asia but Kohli still dwarfs other 5.

Doesn't dwarf Sachin, just surpasses him.

 

[Pakhs]

You fail to understand because you have already made up your mind, I have given you all the reasons but you won't accept since in your mind Viv is the best.

Secondly people who rate Viv or Bradman as the best have never followed their entire career, no one on this forum has watched Viv's entire career all they see are the best innings from Viv and stats on cric info or listen to old greats glorify their era stars and make up their mind.. Sachin/ponting/kohli etc don't have this benefit since people now watch their bad form and can watch every ball of every innings they play because of the data available..

Don't let anyone fool you here that they have watched Viv's entire career, they night have followed his career but not "watched" ..

Well as you have said previously you are slightly biased due to being Indian which is fair enough. I am completely neutral since neither player is from my team. Nobody is saying Sachin was not great he was for sure but Viv was brutal and if he scored that match was won where with Sachin it was not so and you could still get back in the game. Kholi is looking like he is also similar that once he scores he makes sure his innings are good enough to win. Sachin was overall the best Bradman played too long ago for me to compare and Lara was just slightly less consistent than Sachin over all.

But dont forget I am talking just ODIs where brutality of your innings count for a lot. If you can play innings which can totally kill off the opposition its vital.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Greatest ODI batsmen ever: -

Viv
SRT
Ponting
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Bevan

Nice list. I would have AB over Kohli, but either way is fine. Your posts are very objective and honest. Good stuff.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Viv vs Kohli, is behind both

 

[jnaveen1980]

He blew the chances he got so far. Failed against Pakistan in 2011 WC Semis, failed against 2015 against Australia in 2015 Semis, and failed miserably by getting out twice in 2 balls against Pakistan in all important 2017 CT finals. Going by the track record, I'd not be hopeful if I'm an Indian fan.

You just picked 3 failures ignoring his 100 against Pakistan in the world cup lol What makes you think that match is any less important. or his 80 plus againts Pakistan in 2017 CT. So a batsman can score ducks the entire world cup and scores a 100 only in semi he is great? That is a weird logic lol

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Viv vs Kohli, is behind both

Kohli-Sachin-Viv...in that order.

Rest of the discussions are meaningless and a lie.

 

[Etherealistic]

If he can make a match winning score in the World Cup (either in QF/SF/Final), then yes there will be no doubt he will be the greatest ODI batsman ever. He has no competition from his contemporaries at present so currently the best ever.

 

[Shandarchowka]

You just picked 3 failures ignoring his 100 against Pakistan in the world cup lol What makes you think that match is any less important. or his 80 plus againts Pakistan in 2017 CT. So a batsman can score ducks the entire world cup and scores a 100 only in semi he is great? That is a weird logic lol

I can't anymore explain how important it is to score in a world cup/CT knockout than an ordinary group match. If you think both are the same and there is no difference, I can't help.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I can't anymore explain how important it is to score in a world cup/CT knockout than an ordinary group match. If you think both are the same and there is no difference, I can't help.

No. You can't . Because that is the only way you can pick holes in Kohli's illustrious unmatched career.

 

[rhony]

He blew the chances he got so far. Failed against Pakistan in 2011 WC Semis, failed against 2015 against Australia in 2015 Semis, and failed miserably by getting out twice in 2 balls against Pakistan in all important 2017 CT finals. Going by the track record, I'd not be hopeful if I'm an Indian fan.

So 2017 CT final is 'All important' and the earlier CT final is not taken 'seriously'. It was a nice comic relief so far

 

[K4Kohli]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Virat Kohli has now scored seven more ODI centuries than Joe Root, Kane Williamson and Steve Smith combined.<br><br>��<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvIND</a> <a href="https://t.co/oB0xzvkkcG">pic.twitter.com/oB0xzvkkcG</a></p>— bet365_aus (@bet365_aus) <a href="https://twitter.com/bet365_aus/status/1085121690206531584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow. salute the king

 

[KingKhanWC]

Kohli's World Cup average(41.92) must improve to be known as GOAT ODI batsmen

Kohli averages 41.92 in World Cups. He has played a large number of innings in a era where batting has never been easier.

Viv averages 62.31.

Saeed Anwar averages 53.82.

Many other top quality batsmen average more than Kohli in world cup matches.

This World Cup gives him a great chance to strengthen the argument of him being GOAT ODI player. He can start on Sunday against Pakistan who are considered a weak team by Indians and then continue scoring big all the way to the final. Shouldn't be a problem if he is the GOAT to reach at least an average of 50 or over by the end of the tournament.

Atm Viv is the GOAT ODI batsmen imo due to this.

Thoughts?

 

[jnaveen1980]

You should add "According to you". It is all subjective. Vaughan mentions him GOAT after almost every innings of Kohli. He already played a solid knock in this world cup. He will play more.

 

[Hyperion66]

Agreed 100%.

He is the best bat of this era but he has to perform at cricket's biggest stage to be considered an equal to Viv and SRT.

 

[Ronaldo7]

You should add "According to you". It is all subjective. Vaughan mentions him GOAT after almost every innings of Kohli. He already played a solid knock in this world cup. He will play more.

He's an ATG no doubt. But what's the point of scoring in JAMODIS when you can't score in big tournaments?

 

[jnaveen1980]

He's an ATG no doubt. But what's the point of scoring in JAMODIS when you can't score in big tournaments?

Who said he is not scoring. He already made 82 in this world cup. Just one failure. No big deal. Nobody is remotely close to Sachin in terms of World cup domination.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Who said he is not scoring. He already made 82 in this world cup. Just one failure. No big deal. Nobody is remotely close to Sachin in terms of World cup domination.

Id say Viv was better in World Cups because he scored a huge century in the final and has a great average too.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Id say Viv was better in World Cups because he scored a huge century in the final and has a great average too.

You don't have to score in one final and that won't automatically make you "great". it comes down to bowling attack, how primitive the one day format when he scored that century, how strong their side was in that era. He failed in 1983 final. 1975 final. So he did well in 1 out of 3 final. That is not really a good percentage. Sachin is the beast in the world cup.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You don't have to score in one final and that won't automatically make you "great". it comes down to bowling attack, how primitive the one day format when he scored that century, how strong their side was in that era. He failed in 1983 final. 1975 final. So he did well in 1 out of 3 final. That is not really a good percentage. Sachin is the beast in the world cup.

Batting was tougher in the 80's , this is pretty obvious. Viv was top scorer in 83 for his side. Kohli hasnt done anything yet in World Cups and being the biggest stage if he fails to improve his average in this tournament he may not get another chance and will not be seen as as GOAT by a lot of people due to this.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Who said he is not scoring. He already made 82 in this world cup. Just one failure. No big deal. Nobody is remotely close to Sachin in terms of World cup domination.

Maybe Coz sachin played in like 5 world cups.

 

[Sachin136]

Batting was tougher in the 80's , this is pretty obvious. Viv was top scorer in 83 for his side. Kohli hasnt done anything yet in World Cups and being the biggest stage if he fails to improve his average in this tournament he may not get another chance and will not be seen as as GOAT by a lot of people due to this.

Kohli is 30. He's going to play at least 1 more WC, probably 2.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Kohli is 30. He's going to play at least 1 more WC, probably 2.

I hope he does but I dont have a crystal ball, some sportsmen retire early, others dont. I doubt his form will become so poor he will be dropped.

 

[barah_admi]

Of course not....Ali and Robinson are not the greatest fighters ever because they lost to their biggest threats, Pele, Maradonna, Zidane and Ronaldo are not the greatest ever because they failed on the biggest stage....

Kohli needs a world cup with centuries and match defining innings.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Maybe Coz sachin played in like 5 world cups.

He played in 6. No. Inzi also played in 5 world cups 92,96,99,2003,2007. Not really a flattering record

 

[Hyperion66]

Nope Viv was ahead of his time but he played ODI when it was still in its infancy.. Lot of players didn't take it seriously and Viv didn't have to face his own bowlers..

Viv never had to face doosra, slower balls, slower balls bouncers, potent reverse swings, power plays, power hitters, 300+ total chases etc etc The reason why Sachin is the best as ponting mentioned in one of the interviews he played across different eras and dealt with all the innovations of modern game... Viv played only one era and he was absolute best in it, however Sachin dominated and was a top 5 batsmen in all eras he played.

He wins out easily.

Pretty much this

 

[jnaveen1980]

World cup scoring is all about momentum. One more wash out, Kohli lose his momentum completely. worst world cup from Kohli's perspective.

 

[Mueez]

For me he is easily the GOAT in ODIs.

 

[Ronaldo7]

He played in 6. No. Inzi also played in 5 world cups 92,96,99,2003,2007. Not really a flattering record

Won us the 92 one and sachin won his team the 2011 so I don't understand how you can call Inzi's record a "unflattering" record.

 

[Chokli]

Won us the 92 one and sachin won his team the 2011 so I don't understand how you can call Inzi's record a "unflattering" record.

Inzi failed in 96, did okay in 99, failed in 2003 and 2007

 

[jnaveen1980]

Won us the 92 one and sachin won his team the 2011 so I don't understand how you can call Inzi's record a "unflattering" record.

Couple of cameos don't mean he had a world cup career. Akram won the game basically with his cameo and a great spell. Tendulkar literally carried India all the way to the final in 2003. Also was the main guy in 1996 world cup scoring 537. Also the main guy 2011 world cup.

 

[Sidilicious]

Kohli averages 41.92 in World Cups. He has played a large number of innings in a era where batting has never been easier.

Viv averages 62.31.

Saeed Anwar averages 53.82.

Many other top quality batsmen average more than Kohli in world cup matches.

This World Cup gives him a great chance to strengthen the argument of him being GOAT ODI player. He can start on Sunday against Pakistan who are considered a weak team by Indians and then continue scoring big all the way to the final. Shouldn't be a problem if he is the GOAT to reach at least an average of 50 or over by the end of the tournament.

Atm Viv is the GOAT ODI batsmen imo due to this.

Thoughts?

Kohli does not need to average 50 in WC to be considered GOAT. He needs to have 1 splendid WC and score runs in 1 knock out match and take his team to victory in one knockout match.

If he has a splendid 2019 with say a match winning knock in semis, avg 60 odd, but has a poor 2023 WC and ends up averaging 45ish in the WC, he will be considered GOAT.

Ponting had 1 good tour of India, and 3 poor tours. He ended up averaging 26 in India, but is still considered an ATG.

Similarly, Kohli currently averages 36 in England in tests. He had 1 poor tour and 1 excellent tour. Because he has 1 tour where he dominated everyone, he does not need to average more than 50 in England to be called an ATG, as long as he maintains excellent average in other SENA countries.

In ODIs, Kohli has an excellent scoring rate in ODIs. Reaching GOAT level. 1 Good WC with 1 good knock performance will seal his GOAT legacy.

 

[satheesh]

No he can't be the greatest. Just look at Amla ... great stats... but when world cup comes, he forgets how to bat.So for Kohli , some world cup performances are a must. I am not saying he should be in top form thru out a single world cup tournament, but he should have some superb knocks. He has 3 more world cups apart from the on going one. He has already played a few good knocks like 59vsWI,35(in final),107vsPAK,46vsSAF,82vsAUS ...Hope he plays a few more.

 

[bujhee kom]

He is already the greatest ever in this format. Sachin and Viv are nothing in front of him.

Kohli is the undisputed king.

Viv is #1. Ponting is #2. SRT never lit up a WC final. VK has to do it on the biggest stage. Else, no dice.

 

[Abdullah719]

'I Thought I Would Come Not Out': India Captain Virat Kohli on ICC Cricket World Cup 2019 Semi-Final Loss to New Zealand

For the first time since the heartbreaking loss to New Zealand in the ICC Cricket World Cup semi-final, India skipper Virat Kohli has finally broken his silence and said that he believed all along that he would carry his bat through in the match.

In an exclusive chat with India Today, Kohli revealed that he always knew that the team would require him to stand up in one game and that he would come not out and see India off that tough phase. He also goes on to blame his ego for feeling that way.

Speaking of dealing with pressure and failures, Kohli said, “Of course, I am human and even I feel the pressure and there is no denying that.”

Adding further he said, “Deep within I believed the team would need me to stand up and deliver in one of the games. I believed that I would come not out, but that was my inner ego.”

India lost the semi-finals by 18 runs and was knocked out of the tournament. Kohli managed to score merely one run off six balls.

Chasing 240 to win and make the finals, India was reduced to five for three. With their backs to the wall, MS Dhoni and Ravindra Jadeja stitched a 116-run-stand before Jadeja departed for a fighting 77 off 59 balls.

For the Kiwis, Matt Henry scalped three wickets and was the pick of the bowlers, while Boult and Santner picked two wickets apiece.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/news...up-2019-semi-final-loss-to-new-zealand-907228

 

[shantanu]

And Steve Smith has a century against the legend Kohli in a semifinal of World Cup. Kohli would gladly trade all of his hundreds for such a majestic knock in a heart beat. That is the value of a World Cup knockout hundred.

Lol at the stupids.
In your lala-land maybe.

 

[Relic]

Lol at the stupids.
In your lala-land maybe.

What's the point of these JAMODI hundreds when he can't even score one in a World Cup Knockout match?

 

[JaDed]

What's the point of these JAMODI hundreds when he can't even score one in a World Cup Knockout match?

Good it is clear he needs a ton in WC knock out ,should it be a WC outside India or in India is allowed?

 

[Relic]

Good it is clear he needs a ton in WC knock out ,should it be a WC outside India or in India is allowed?

Is this a genuine question or are you just being petty?

 

[Dead Ball]

He is already an Indian test legend in my eyes. Has transformed the Indian side to a fast bowling powerhouse, something that I never saw happening in my lifetime.

He is aeguably the fittest cricketer in the world so he has two WC's to go where he can shut his haters. So far Kohli has made most of his critics eat humble pie. He will do the same come next WC. Until then, Viv is the greatest ODI batsman for me.