Could Jasprit Bumrah be India's greatest ever bowler?

[Junaids]

I feel equally sorry for Indians about their bowling as for Pakistanis about their batting.

Naseem Shah and Shaheen Shah Afridi are still in their teens, yet already have Test bowling averages that only Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammed Shami in Indian fast bowling history can compare with - but Bumrah and Shami have hardly taken any more Test wickets than they have.

 

[MP2011]

All credit to Shami but he was bowling to one of the worst Aussie batting units ever which was low on confidence

By that token, would you also discount the no. of wickets taken by Cummins during last year or so? After all he was bowling only to

1) India, which comprises of a grand total of 2 test bats,
2) SL, worst team in away tests,
3) NZ, mentally shot in tests which are being held in Australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol You mean Shami > Waqar and Fazal Mehmood?

Even Akhtar is better than Shami tbh and arguably Asif too if you put 100 wicket threshold

waqar's average vs india and australia is abysmal. I would take shami over him. shoaib is the same. shami is better.

imran and wasim are the best from Asia for now.

 

[Junaids]

waqar's average vs india and australia is abysmal. I would take shami over him. shoaib is the same. shami is better.

imran and wasim are the best from Asia for now.

To be fair, Waqar never played against either Australia or India at his peak.

 

[MP2011]

Thankfully, Indian selectors (read Kohli however surprising this may sound) aren't as clueless as Junaids is about fast bowling in test cricket or they'd have consigned Ishant to dustbin basis his poor bowling average. And we'd have been deprived of a truly lion heart pace bowler who was instrumental in aiding our quite a few test wins over last 3 years, incidentally coinciding with our no.1 reign.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Shami is 30 this year and hasn’t even got 200 Test wickets!

He averages the wrong side of 30 in Australia, England and New Zealand.

Bumrah and Shami have so terribly few wickets under their belt for their advanced age. They both need to take 50 Test wickets per year every year for the next four years to have any legacy at all.

shami is more like 32 lol. a young 32 though

 

[Mobashir]

waqar's average vs india and australia is abysmal. I would take shami over him. shoaib is the same. shami is better.

imran and wasim are the best from Asia for now.

When you have an idea you stick to it whatever as if it is a revelation and you have the true.

Remember you arguing about the average speed of Naseem in Australia, and it needed the picture posted 5 times for you to reckon you were wrong.

Shami's career average vs top 5/6 sides (excluding SL a'd WI) is over 30. He is a nobody so far. These days he seems to be bowling better so let's see what happens.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Thankfully, Indian selectors (read Kohli however surprising this may sound) aren't as clueless as Junaids is about fast bowling in test cricket or they'd have consigned Ishant to dustbin basis his poor bowling average. And we'd have been deprived of a truly lion heart pace bowler who was instrumental in aiding our quite a few test wins over last 3 years, incidentally coinciding with our no.1 reign.

junaids is not wrong about height benefits though.

how many short bowlers bowling under 135 have been successful in SENA

@ Junaids can you tell me please?

conversely tall bowlers can operate at 130-135 and still be successful if they are skilful enough.

shorter ones have to bowl around 135 PLUS.


this has nothing to do with the comment so let me add my input now.

I agree ishant is underrated and a very effective first change bowler. Many teams would kill to have a bowler like him as a first change option. He is indeed a good bowler but obviously never will be a great unfortunately. He is one of those ones where bowling averages dont do him enough justice.

philander has a better average than wasim and imran. philander >> than those 2 now?

stats isn't everything and I totally agree.

 

[tyron_woodley]

When you have an idea you stick to it whatever as if it is a revelation and you have the true.

Remember you arguing about the average speed of Naseem in Australia, and it needed the picture posted 5 times for you to reckon you were wrong.

Shami's career average vs top 5/6 sides (excluding SL a'd WI) is over 30. He is a nobody so far. These days he seems to be bowling better so let's see what happens.

he is an odi legend already from Asia.

test he isn't far off. 2-3 more good years before he retires and he would be right up there in top 3.

 

[Kingpin786]

waqar's average vs india and australia is abysmal. I would take shami over him. shoaib is the same. shami is better.

imran and wasim are the best from Asia for now.

Lol shami is average bowler bullied windies bangladesh weak Austria to get his average under 30

 

[Mobashir]

he is an odi legend already from Asia.

test he isn't far off. 2-3 more good years before he retires and he would be right up there in top 3.

Did you at least made the effort of reading what I wrote?
Mohammad Shami averages over 30 in test cricket vs top teams.

In ODI's and T20's he is easely the most expensive bowler playing. That's the reason he is often not even playing in the Indian starting line up. If you look at his recent form this is probably what is going to happen again at the next t20 WC with Kumar replacing him and Pandya replacing Thakur.

 

[Dingolfy]

I feel equally sorry for Indians about their bowling as for Pakistanis about their batting.

Naseem Shah and Shaheen Shah Afridi are still in their teens, yet already have Test bowling averages that only Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammed Shami in Indian fast bowling history can compare with - but Bumrah and Shami have hardly taken any more Test wickets than they have.

Lol. They're just a couple of matches old. We all know what happened to Amir, Hassan Ali, Junaid Khan and even Abbas. And both of them have hardly taken any wickets yet in international cricket to be compared to Bumrah and Shami.

 

[Mobashir]

Lol. They're just a couple of matches old. We all know what happened to Amir, Hassan Ali, Junaid Khan and even Abbas. And both of them have hardly taken any wickets yet in international cricket to be compared to Bumrah and Shami.

What happened to Abbas?

 

[Dingolfy]

I consider Shoaib Akhtar to be a complete nobody. 176 Test wickets put him between Neil Wagner and Danny Morrison, inferior to Chris Martin.

A Test bowler is judged by a combination of his haul of wickets and his average. Shami is nearly 30 and hasn’t got even 200 Test wickets. He’s a nobody too, and absolute Zero in the history of Test cricket.

Ishant Sharma is actually LESS than a zero. He’s played 96 Tests, hasn’t even got 300 wickets, and averages almost 33 after almost 13 years of Test cricket. That places him firmly in the “complete garbage” category.

Number of matches played matter more than age. Else Micheal Hussy would be a Nobody as he dbuted at 30. Shami won a series in Australia and outbowled taller and faster Australian bowlers which none of the legendary Asian bowlers could do. And has 175 wickets from 47 tests at an avg of 27 which is pretty good for a fast bowler no matter what some old keyboard warrior think about him.

 

[Dingolfy]

What happened to Abbas?

Already tapered off. 46.2 in South Africa and no wickets for 100 runs in Australia. Most likely going the way of Amir.

 

[hur rizvi]

waqar's average vs india and australia is abysmal. I would take shami over him. shoaib is the same. shami is better.

imran and wasim are the best from Asia for now.

It’s not Waqar’s fault that India and Pakistan never played when he was ripping apart teams. Waqar is an ATG, Shami is nobody in front of him. I can digest overrating to compare with Shoaib but Waqar is beyond Shami’s pedigree

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol shami is average bowler bullied windies bangladesh weak Austria to get his average under 30

waqar dint play india at their peaks either and still got battered.
the same Australian side india beat would decimate every team at home.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Did you at least made the effort of reading what I wrote?
Mohammad Shami averages over 30 in test cricket vs top teams.

In ODI's and T20's he is easely the most expensive bowler playing. That's the reason he is often not even playing in the Indian starting line up. If you look at his recent form this is probably what is going to happen again at the next t20 WC with Kumar replacing him and Pandya replacing Thakur.

last 4 year's he averages under 23. He started off poorly. players improve you know??

he is a brilliant odi bowler. bowls in a batting friendly era. He is one of the greats.

 

[Kingpin786]

waqar dint play india at their peaks either and still got battered.
the same Australian side india beat would decimate every team at home.

when did it happen

 

[hur rizvi]

Tbh chaminda vaas was better than Shami let alone comparing him to Waqar

 

[tyron_woodley]

It’s not Waqar’s fault that India and Pakistan never played when he was ripping apart teams. Waqar is an ATG, Shami is nobody in front of him. I can digest overrating to compare with Shoaib but Waqar is beyond Shami’s pedigree

no he isn't. waqar thrived off a weak era vs weak teams. he had a short peak. His bowling averages vs top teams is trash india weren't even a top side back then and he still got battered.

philander > waqar going by averages.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Tbh chaminda vaas was better than Shami let alone comparing him to Waqar

shami plays in a batting friendly era and is still dominant. Not even close.

 

[Ab Fan]

Insecurity at another level by few Pakistani posters here. Allan Donald lost 7 years of his international career and debuted at 26. He ended with 70 tests and around 330 wickets and is a bonafide ATG.

Shami is 29 and has 175 tests wickets @27. There is no reason why he can't play till 35 and end with over 350 test wickets @27 as he is getting better with time. He still has 3 years of peak left in him.

Ishant was average in first half but has been brilliant in second half by all means. He averages 32 now and has about 300 wickets. He also looks well on his way to end with 380-390 wickets and if he can maintain his peak for two more years before declining, he can go past 400 wickets margin that will put him on par with Zaheer.

For Bumrah, it's his action which is in question if he can sustain for 70 more tests but he averages 19 which is absolutely legendary and if he can maintain this , he can be India's greatest bowler ever.

 

[hur rizvi]

shami plays in a batting friendly era and is still dominant. Not even close.

Rubbish. Waqar and Wasim built there careers on unresponsive pitches and so did Vaas

 

[Mobashir]

last 4 year's he averages under 23. He started off poorly. players improve you know??

he is a brilliant odi bowler. bowls in a batting friendly era. He is one of the greats.

Last 4 year against top teams:

vs Australia : average 26,18 - whatever that was the australian team missing Smith and Warner.
vs England : average 33.61 (5 test match series in England, averages 38.87 in it)
vs NZ : average 30.37
vs SA : average 16

So apart from picking on the worst SA team ever, what has he done of note in the last 4 years?


In LOI's : Where was the legend in 2019 WC? 2017 Champions trophy? How can he be a legend when he isn't even a first choice bowler for his own team? And we are not talking about the great WI side here, about Indian bowling attack.

 

[Junaids]

no he isn't. waqar thrived off a weak era vs weak teams. he had a short peak. His bowling averages vs top teams is trash india weren't even a top side back then and he still got battered.

philander > waqar going by averages.

That’s demonstrably wrong.

The West Indies were by far the top team, and Waqar averaged 23 against them.

 

[majiz]

Like asking If grigor dimitrov could be Bulgaria's greatest ever tennis player
Hardly much competition

 

[hur rizvi]

no he isn't. waqar thrived off a weak era vs weak teams. he had a short peak. His bowling averages vs top teams is trash india weren't even a top side back then and he still got battered.

philander > waqar going by averages.

This is last time I am responding you India played Waqar on debut and then after 2 major injuries. I don’t count him as a failure against India. There is no sample set. He did badly against Australia and that’s just one team. He’s an ATG. Let Shami get his average under 25 and take 300 wickets then maybe we can debate on this


Until then goodbye

 

[Kingpin786]

Last 4 year against top teams:

vs Australia : average 26,18 - whatever that was the australian team missing Smith and Warner.
vs England : average 33.61 (5 test match series in England, averages 38.87 in it)
vs NZ : average 30.37
vs SA : average 16

So apart from picking on the worst SA team ever, what has he done of note in the last 4 years?


In LOI's : Where was the legend in 2019 WC? 2017 Champions trophy? How can he be a legend when he isn't even a first choice bowler for his own team? And we are not talking about the great WI side here, about Indian bowling attack.

great post

 

[Ab Fan]

Last 4 year against top teams:

vs Australia : average 26,18 - whatever that was the australian team missing Smith and Warner.
vs England : average 33.61 (5 test match series in England, averages 38.87 in it)
vs NZ : average 30.37
vs SA : average 16

So apart from picking on the worst SA team ever, what has he done of note in the last 4 years?


In LOI's : Where was the legend in 2019 WC? 2017 Champions trophy? How can he be a legend when he isn't even a first choice bowler for his own team? And we are not talking about the great WI side here, about Indian bowling attack.

26 is a good average Vs Aus batters. So, he did very well Vs Australia and he averages 21 at home.

And SA side wasn't the worst by any means. They had fresh AB who had a point to prove coming from break.

 

[MP2011]

And SA side wasn't the worst by any means. They had fresh AB who had a point to prove coming from break.

Since an Indian did well against them, they had to be worst.

 

[Mobashir]

Since an Indian did well against them, they had to be worst.

Just in case you are not following cricket so closely these days, they lost at home 2-0 to SL, they lost to England at home, they lost 4-0 to India.
Everything said, you just have to look the playing XI and find me a worst SA playing XI in the last 20 years.

PS : Pakistan did loose 3-0 against them but they were still the worst SA team. Nothing to with India or Pakistan.

Stop being biased.

 

[MP2011]

Stop being biased.

Pot, kettle, black? It doesn't suit you to talk about biases.

lol, in your bid to tag them their worst team ever and undermine Shami's bowling, you forgot to mention that the team faced by India had AB something which SL were fortunate enough not to find in their series in SA.

As for Eng winning in SA, lol you're saying as if this is the first time Eng has won in SA! For Eng, SA conditions are similar as they find back home unlike a team from subcon.

As for Pakistan not winning in SA, well talk about something which we don't know. Except for England, Pakistan are dire away from home, everyone knows that, thought you too would've been knowing that!

 

[MP2011]

And had you bothered to follow that India-SA series, you'd have probably noticed that AB was the difference between the 2 sides.

 

[Mobashir]

And had you bothered to follow that India-SA series, you'd have probably noticed that AB was the difference between the 2 sides.

I already mentioned this many times this on the forum itself so don't worry about what I follow and what I didn't. He was clearly the best batsman of the series.

That wasn't even the discussion at the start.

Shami has done superbly home and away against a wonderful SA.
What about the other 3 sides I mentioned?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol You mean Shami > Waqar and Fazal Mehmood?

Even Akhtar is better than Shami tbh and arguably Asif too if you put 100 wicket threshold

Waqar was definitely better than Shami.

Akhtar and Shami are probably equal or Shami is marginally behind at this point and Shami has every chance of going ahead if he continues his form for couple of years.

Rest are not comparable.

 

[MP2011]

What about the other 3 sides I mentioned?

Had you cared to read, you'd have found it. Never mind.....

 

[tyron_woodley]

Last 4 year against top teams:

vs Australia : average 26,18 - whatever that was the australian team missing Smith and Warner.
vs England : average 33.61 (5 test match series in England, averages 38.87 in it)
vs NZ : average 30.37
vs SA : average 16

So apart from picking on the worst SA team ever, what has he done of note in the last 4 years?


In LOI's : Where was the legend in 2019 WC? 2017 Champions trophy? How can he be a legend when he isn't even a first choice bowler for his own team? And we are not talking about the great WI side here, about Indian bowling attack.

you want me to post waqar's averages vs india and australia? and south africa?

lol weak south african team that had de villiers morkel and steyn? even without those players they spanked pakistan 3 0.

shami is a first choice bowler.

Indian bowling attack is world class and the best in the world.

 

[Mahee]

Bumrah is going to be exposed in this test match by NZ

 

[Bilal7]

coming from a guy who thought wahab riaz and junaid khan were the next waqar and wasim? that's a bit rich.

So not only are you severely delusional but you are also a disgusting liar. Way to kill your credibility. No wonder you're a Woodley fan.

Insecurity at another level by few Pakistani posters here. Allan Donald lost 7 years of his international career and debuted at 26. He ended with 70 tests and around 330 wickets and is a bonafide ATG.

Shami is 29 and has 175 tests wickets @27. There is no reason why he can't play till 35 and end with over 350 test wickets @27 as he is getting better with time. He still has 3 years of peak left in him.

Ishant was average in first half but has been brilliant in second half by all means. He averages 32 now and has about 300 wickets. He also looks well on his way to end with 380-390 wickets and if he can maintain his peak for two more years before declining, he can go past 400 wickets margin that will put him on par with Zaheer.

For Bumrah, it's his action which is in question if he can sustain for 70 more tests but he averages 19 which is absolutely legendary and if he can maintain this , he can be India's greatest bowler ever.

What insecurity are you speaking of? All three of the things you mentioned can happen and Pakistan will still lay claim to having the three best bowlers of Asia. Having said that, your scenarios are highly unlikely. Most pace bowlers decline very quickly after hitting their 30s and Bumrah is likely to transition into a LOI specialist in the near future.

 

[Bilal7]

Waqar was definitely better than Shami.

Akhtar and Shami are probably equal or Shami is marginally behind at this point and Shami has every chance of going ahead if he continues his form for couple of years.

Rest are not comparable.

How many experts and former players will pick present-day Mohammad Shami over a peak-Shoaib Akhtar? How many of Shami's own teammates do you think will do the same. Try to answer as honestly as possible.

Fazal Mahmood is a pioneer whose impact on the Asian game is enormous. Sure, in terms of plain numbers, he has been eclipsed many times but it is not always about the numbers. Nonetheless, he averages better than Shami, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[tyron_woodley]

How many experts and former players will pick present-day Mohammad Shami over a peak-Shoaib Akhtar? How many of Shami's own teammates do you think will do the same. Try to answer as honestly as possible.

Fazal Mahmood is a pioneer whose impact on the Asian game is enormous. Sure, in terms of plain numbers, he has been eclipsed many times but it is not always about the numbers. Nonetheless, he averages better than Shami, if I'm not mistaken.

what was waqar's record vs ausyralia and india? how did he play vs south africa? away from home.

There was a thread about him being massively overrated. It was actually started by a Pakistani fan.

You keep trumpeting your waqar and shoaib.


shoaib again was pathetic vs top teams away.
His peak was short lived. Every bowler can have a great peak. It's how long you sustain it for that counts.

Era's change. With the addition of franchise cricket and t20 Internationals, players are now required to play more games.

That's why I hate comparing players to past greats. It's different.

waqar also benefited alot in an era were ball tampering was going unnoticed.

 

[Kashmirilion]

I consider Shoaib Akhtar to be a complete nobody. 176 Test wickets put him between Neil Wagner and Danny Morrison, inferior to Chris Martin.

A Test bowler is judged by a combination of his haul of wickets and his average. Shami is nearly 30 and hasn’t got even 200 Test wickets. He’s a nobody too, and absolute Zero in the history of Test cricket.

Ishant Sharma is actually LESS than a zero. He’s played 96 Tests, hasn’t even got 300 wickets, and averages almost 33 after almost 13 years of Test cricket. That places him firmly in the “complete garbage” category.

How dare you belittle GOAT Akhtar. Nobody? Really? Disgusting comment. When in top of his game there will never be a sight like Akhtar steaming in to bowl Never!

 

[Dingolfy]

Bumrah bowled pretty poor today. But he can take inspiration from Ishant. If Ishant can come back from mediocrity, anybody can!

 

[Ahmed216]

How many wickets has he taken on this NZ tour?? Is it 1?

 

[Mahee]

As I said, Kohli and Bumrah's time over...they should retire

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I consider Shoaib Akhtar to be a complete nobody. 176 Test wickets put him between Neil Wagner and Danny Morrison, inferior to Chris Martin.

A Test bowler is judged by a combination of his haul of wickets and his average. Shami is nearly 30 and hasn’t got even 200 Test wickets. He’s a nobody too, and absolute Zero in the history of Test cricket.

Ishant Sharma is actually LESS than a zero. He’s played 96 Tests, hasn’t even got 300 wickets, and averages almost 33 after almost 13 years of Test cricket. That places him firmly in the “complete garbage” category.

I totally agree.
Similarly Barry Richards is a complete nobody in test cricket,not even good enough to tie shami's shoelaces,

 

[RamLakhan]

As I said, Kohli and Bumrah's time over...they should retire

Man Management issues! Coach is useless and Kohli should be controlled by a proper mentor at the top! Probably a foreign coach is the solution. And better Kohli is axed from captaincy for good. Then things will improve.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah is going through a rough patch. Only time will tell will he be back to his best?

Shami is brilliant in Asia, averaging 21 at home and 19 in Sri Lanka but overseas he needs a bit of improvement, particularly in England and NZ. He didn't look effective today.

Ishant was a laughing stock in first half of his career but has been brilliant in second half and can now be rated about <B>same level to Khan and Srinath as a test bowler</B>. He has potential to get to 400 wickets as he is better than Shami overseas and on current form also better than Bumrah. At home, Shami is better , Bumrah hasn't played and he will get a nod ahead of Yadav as well.

 

[Ab Fan]

^ Ashwin is brilliant at home but overseas he has never done well against a good batting lineup. I will pick Harbhajan over him outside Asia and overall, Kumble with a 29 average is better than Ash. As a batsmen, he is a minnow basher and has been very poor in the past 2-3 years by even the standards of a no.8.

 

[Ab Fan]

Adding further to it, Jadeja is more of an all-rounder than Ashwin and a good test bowler but doesn't possess the skills of Ashwin. A support bowler to Ashwin in Asia but he did a very good job vs Australia at home when Ashwin and Kohli didn't do much.

Overall, as a bowling unit, it's quite potent in Asia with Shami, Ishant, Bumrah and Yadav as solid pace attack and the deadly duo of Ashwin- Jadeja.

Overseas, Ishant, Bumrah and Shami are the best but Bumrah needs to get back to his best while Ashwin or Jaddu are good in playing the support role. Never had the privilege to watch Ashwin taking a fifer away against a quality batting lineup although he did disappointed quite a few times in slightly favourable conditions in South Africa and England when he had the chance to elevate his stature.

 

[Ab Fan]

So not only are you severely delusional but you are also a disgusting liar. Way to kill your credibility. No wonder you're a Woodley fan.



What insecurity are you speaking of? All three of the things you mentioned can happen and Pakistan will still lay claim to having the three best bowlers of Asia. Having said that, your scenarios are highly unlikely. Most pace bowlers decline very quickly after hitting their 30s and Bumrah is likely to transition into a LOI specialist in the near future.

Yes but it has been a other way round for Ishant as you can see his stats and the same has been the case for Shami. Too early to make a decision on Bumrah. Every player can have one bad series, let alone a bad match. He averages 20 with the bowl.

We have seen similar cases with Anderson, even Broad making a comeback, so this age thing is a bit overstated I feel.

Wasim, Imran and Waqar may remain the three best fast bowlers from SC but Shami can become fourth greatest fast bowler from sub continent if he ends with the said numbers and Ishant with 300 wickets and getting better only can be considered an equivalent of Khan or Srinath in test cricket. Bumrah averages 20 with the bowl so let's see.

India now have a good bunch of fast bowlers including history with Kapil Dev, Mohammad Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Zaheer Khan and Srinath in their store. It's comparable to Pakistan's batting who had Miandad, Inzamam and Younis.

 

[Mercurial]

He seems to have been found out. His ODI average has slipped to 24. The great fast bowlers of the yesteryears were great for a reason, they had the consistency. Let's see if he can make a comeback.

 

[Saurav]

Clearly struggling after injury.Need to manage his workload

 

[The Viper]

Guys keep the discussion on topic please

 

[cricketjoshila]

He seems to have been found out. His ODI average has slipped to 24. The great fast bowlers of the yesteryears were great for a reason, they had the consistency. Let's see if he can make a comeback.

He has come back from a long injury lay off. It will take sometime to be bowling at his best.

 

[Kingpin786]

Jasprit bumrah going hasan ali way

 

[Bewal Express]

Looking at his recent outings, he is def lacking a bit of confidence and more importantly zip. His pace is down by around 3mph, which makes a big difference to some bowlers, the fact that his action has become more familiar helps the batsman to avoid the novelty factor. The big plus and the reason he will be fine in the long term is the excellent seam, which means he will have a chance to beat the bat and take wickets.

 

[Slim]

So the whole indian bowling thing turned out to be a false dawn?

 

[Rana]

Cut the guy some slack guys. He is a good bowler. Amir was a let down in NZ green top seamers also

 

[hur rizvi]

Yes but it has been a other way round for Ishant as you can see his stats and the same has been the case for Shami. Too early to make a decision on Bumrah. Every player can have one bad series, let alone a bad match. He averages 20 with the bowl.

We have seen similar cases with Anderson, even Broad making a comeback, so this age thing is a bit overstated I feel.

Wasim, Imran and Waqar may remain the three best fast bowlers from SC but Shami can become fourth greatest fast bowler from sub continent if he ends with the said numbers and Ishant with 300 wickets and getting better only can be considered an equivalent of Khan or Srinath in test cricket. Bumrah averages 20 with the bowl so let's see.

India now have a good bunch of fast bowlers including history with Kapil Dev, Mohammad Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Zaheer Khan and Srinath in their store. It's comparable to Pakistan's batting who had Miandad, Inzamam and Younis.

Only Shami and Kapil under 30 bowlers and that’s wrong side of 20s. It’s not equivalent to 50 average with bat. I would call them equivalent of zaheer abbas level with bat


Bumrah averages 20 but sample size is too small so let’s see

 

[Kingpin786]

Only Shami and Kapil under 30 bowlers and that’s wrong side of 20s. It’s not equivalent to 50 average with bat. I would call them equivalent of zaheer abbas level with bat


Bumrah averages 20 but sample size is too small so let’s see

Well said

 

[tyron_woodley]

He needs to get stronger. He will be fine. just struggling a bit post injury

 

[nextover666666]

shami plays in a batting friendly era and is still dominant. Not even close.

You can't compare Shoaib and Waqas to shami the thought is hilarious m shami is a nobody only good test bowler India has is Ishant Sharma

 

[hur rizvi]

His average speed was awful in this match. Around 133-135 kph

 

[Kingpin786]

His average speed was awful in this match. Around 133-135 kph

He has pace but i have never seen him clocking 150kph in internationals apart from australia tour

 

[Slim]

Was bowling at 127 KPH

 

[Slim]

His average speed was awful in this match. Around 133-135 kph

he gone

 

[wrongun]

All the bowlers were pretty slow in this match- the wind may have affected run ups.

The knives are really out for this guy after one bad match coming back from injury. Are the fans really terrified that India might produce a great quick? Try to enjoy it.

The funniest part is when people try to argue against his SENA record over the last 4 years- 3 pretty succesful tours by any standard & an average tour of ENgland (where he has done better previously).

He looks short of a gallop to me, but he'll be better for the run. We'll see what this India attack is made of in the next match.

 

[Junaids]

First Test bowling returns, in order of performance:

Tim Southee: 41.1-11-110-9
Ishant Sharma: 23.2-6-76-5
Trent Boult: 40-10-96-5
Kyle Jamieson: 35-10-84-4
Jasprit Bumrah: 26.4-5-89-1
Mohammad Shami 23-2-91-1

Not a great outing for the much-vaunted Bumrah and Shami.

 

[Usman Chadda]

All the bowlers were pretty slow in this match- the wind may have affected run ups.

The knives are really out for this guy after one bad match coming back from injury. Are the fans really terrified that India might produce a great quick? Try to enjoy it.

The funniest part is when people try to argue against his SENA record over the last 4 years- 3 pretty succesful tours by any standard & an average tour of ENgland (where he has done better previously).

He looks short of a gallop to me, but he'll be better for the run. We'll see what this India attack is made of in the next match.

Well, when you have threads depicting you as 'India's greatest bowler ever', you will have knives out for you even if you fail in one match

 

[London_Lahori]

All the bowlers were pretty slow in this match- the wind may have affected run ups.

The knives are really out for this guy after one bad match coming back from injury. Are the fans really terrified that India might produce a great quick? Try to enjoy it.

The funniest part is when people try to argue against his SENA record over the last 4 years- 3 pretty succesful tours by any standard & an average tour of ENgland (where he has done better previously).

He looks short of a gallop to me, but he'll be better for the run. We'll see what this India attack is made of in the next match.

Not just one bad match is it, look at all the performances in all games since his return.

 

[shah_1]

Too early to say about his form


Next 4 to 6 months will tell

 

[someone21]

Shades of Amir. Teams are playing him out, and he is unable to innovate with that extra attention by the opponents...

 

[Bilal7]

Yes but it has been a other way round for Ishant as you can see his stats and the same has been the case for Shami. Too early to make a decision on Bumrah. Every player can have one bad series, let alone a bad match. He averages 20 with the bowl.

We have seen similar cases with Anderson, even Broad making a comeback, so this age thing is a bit overstated I feel.

Wasim, Imran and Waqar may remain the three best fast bowlers from SC but Shami can become fourth greatest fast bowler from sub continent if he ends with the said numbers and Ishant with 300 wickets and getting better only can be considered an equivalent of Khan or Srinath in test cricket. Bumrah averages 20 with the bowl so let's see.

India now have a good bunch of fast bowlers including history with Kapil Dev, Mohammad Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Zaheer Khan and Srinath in their store. It's comparable to Pakistan's batting who had Miandad, Inzamam and Younis.

Like I said, it is far more likely that Shami and Sharma's performances start degrading quickly from here on out. Anderson and Broad are far better bowlers and their fitness levels have been better as well. Even then, they are the exceptions and not the rule. Most pace bowlers see their performances go downhill after hitting 30.

Let's not forget that the likes of Zaheer Khan are retired players and experienced the decline that naturally comes at the tail-end of a player's career. You are comparing them with active players who have yet to experience the same decline. Sharma might end up with 400 wickets but if they come at an average in excess of 34, he'll simply go down as the worst bowler to pick up that many wickets.

You forgot Saeed Anwar, Zaheer Abbas, Hanif Mohammad, Mohammad Yousuf, Misbah-ul-Haq and Babar Azam. Pakistan's batting is underrated and has been better than India's bowling.

 

[Bilal7]

what was waqar's record vs ausyralia and india? how did he play vs south africa? away from home.

There was a thread about him being massively overrated. It was actually started by a Pakistani fan.

You keep trumpeting your waqar and shoaib.


shoaib again was pathetic vs top teams away.
His peak was short lived. Every bowler can have a great peak. It's how long you sustain it for that counts.

Era's change. With the addition of franchise cricket and t20 Internationals, players are now required to play more games.

That's why I hate comparing players to past greats. It's different.

waqar also benefited alot in an era were ball tampering was going unnoticed.

What was Rahul Dravid's average against Australia and South Africa? Especially in their conditions? Are you now going to claim that Babar Azam is already a better batsman than 'The Wall'? You keep trying to pick holes in the careers of great players but fail to realize that, as of now, the likes of Shami and Bumrah have done nothing to warrant a comparison. Let Shami end his career and then we'll figure out who ended with more holes and who won more matches.

Shoaib Akhtar had around as many wickets as Shami does right now but at a far better average in both formats and as anyone who has watched the game will tell you, Akhtar's impact went beyond simple numbers.

 

[Titan24]

What was Rahul Dravid's average against Australia and South Africa? Especially in their conditions? Are you now going to claim that Babar Azam is already a better batsman than 'The Wall'? You keep trying to pick holes in the careers of great players but fail to realize that, as of now, the likes of Shami and Bumrah have done nothing to warrant a comparison. Let Shami end his career and then we'll figure out who ended with more holes and who won more matches.

Shoaib Akhtar had around as many wickets as Shami does right now but at a far better average in both formats and as anyone who has watched the game will tell you, Akhtar's impact went beyond simple numbers.

Well put. Its funny how people start comparing players with legends of the game based upon better stats in one or two countries with not even half the career span, impact or even comparable overall stats vs the legends of the game.

 

[Kingpin786]

What was Rahul Dravid's average against Australia and South Africa? Especially in their conditions? Are you now going to claim that Babar Azam is already a better batsman than 'The Wall'? You keep trying to pick holes in the careers of great players but fail to realize that, as of now, the likes of Shami and Bumrah have done nothing to warrant a comparison. Let Shami end his career and then we'll figure out who ended with more holes and who won more matches.

Shoaib Akhtar had around as many wickets as Shami does right now but at a far better average in both formats and as anyone who has watched the game will tell you, Akhtar's impact went beyond simple numbers.

Great post

 

[Ab Fan]

Like I said, it is far more likely that Shami and Sharma's performances start degrading quickly from here on out. Anderson and Broad are far better bowlers and their fitness levels have been better as well. Even then, they are the exceptions and not the rule. Most pace bowlers see their performances go downhill after hitting 30.

Let's not forget that the likes of Zaheer Khan are retired players and experienced the decline that naturally comes at the tail-end of a player's career. You are comparing them with active players who have yet to experience the same decline. Sharma might end up with 400 wickets but if they come at an average in excess of 34, he'll simply go down as the worst bowler to pick up that many wickets.

You forgot Saeed Anwar, Zaheer Abbas, Hanif Mohammad, Mohammad Yousuf, Misbah-ul-Haq and Babar Azam. Pakistan's batting is underrated and has been better than India's bowling.

But like Jimmy Broad, Ishant has only gone better. He averages under 27 since 2014. He too is an exception to rule. Shami is legendary in Asia and decent away. Not ATG but can be a great bowler, already halfway.

Batsmen is equivalent to bowlers, not fast bowlers only. So, India also have Kumble, Bedi, Ashwin and Srinath.

 

[Kingpin786]

But like Jimmy Broad, Ishant has only gone better. He averages under 27 since 2014. He too is an exception to rule. Shami is legendary in Asia and decent away. Not ATG but can be a great bowler, already halfway.

Batsmen is equivalent to bowlers, not fast bowlers only. So, India also have Kumble, Bedi, Ashwin and Srinath.

Lol what a joke