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Dassault delivers first Rafale to India

Romali_rotti said:
While the Safran engine will come with less conditions attached, at the end of the day Indians have to find a way to fully develop their own indigenous jet engine no one will provide them with a 100% transfer of technology.

Indians are not far away, I heard they have developed the crystal blade technology one of the main hurdles, maybe in 5 years time they will have finally solved this engine equation...
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The partnership with Safran is reported to involve a 100% transfer of technology and full intellectual property ownership for India, a first-of-its-kind arrangement in the global fighter jet engine market.

Negotiations to finalize the agreement are expected to begin shortly, with G2G mechanism ensuring speed and political backing.

The major story here however is the geopolitical dimension. President Macron has recognized India’s strategic importance amid shifting global power balances and has seized the opportunity. By facilitating landmark Indian defense partnerships for both Safran and Dassault, he has secured France a long-term stake in India’s security architecture.

While Western media often paints Macron as a villain, he is a leader with sharp diplomatic instincts playing the long game quietly but effectively. He has successfully leveraged France’s defense technology expertise to strengthen its geopolitical clout on the global stage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1959140400704168131
 
Bhaijaan said:
The partnership with Safran is reported to involve a 100% transfer of technology and full intellectual property ownership for India, a first-of-its-kind arrangement in the global fighter jet engine market.
Click to expand...

Trust me brother.

Full 100 tot is never given in these deals.

There is a reason only 4 countries can fully indigenously manufacture jet engines whilst the others can't. The below club of 4 is not planning to or wanting to take 5th country into their exclusive group...

1) USA,
2) Russia,
3) UK,
4) France.

Indians will get assistance from Safran but they will have to solve the engine riddle by themselves.
 
Great PR work in this thread.

Just going by this thread it seems like India has the best air force in the world and of the last 30-40 years 👌🏼 💯
 
Pakistan was forced to be on its knees - anything funnier, it would be rolling on floor.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Turkey and Pakistan can come to us for training anytime. We are experts in this field and have a proven track record of air superiority.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009183079559291061
Click to expand...
Most of this Twitter account’s post are India glazing posts, with snide asides about Arabs, Muslims and Pakistanis…

Guess any aira ghaira Kumar online behind a username just tweeting is considered credible these days 🤣
 
In a historic pivot for India’s aerospace industry, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program has reached a decisive milestone. For the first time in the country’s history, the state-owned giant Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been eliminated from the race to build a frontline fighter jet, leaving three private sector powerhouses to compete for the final contract.

Here is a comprehensive breakdown of the latest developments and the strategic shifts surrounding the AMCA project.

1. The Shortlist: Private Sector Takes the Lead​

Following a rigorous technical evaluation of seven Indian entities by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and the Ministry of Defence (MoD), three finalists have been shortlisted:

  • Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL): Bidding independently, leveraging its global aerospace manufacturing partnerships (like the C-295 transport aircraft project with Airbus).
  • Larsen & Toubro (L&T) Consortium: Partnering with state-run Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) and Dynamatic Technologies, merging heavy engineering with high-end radar and electronic warfare expertise.
  • Bharat Forge (Kalyani Group) Consortium: Partnering with BEML Limited and Data Patterns (India) Ltd, forming a strong alliance focused on structural strength and defence electronics.

2. Why HAL is "Out"​

The exclusion of HAL marks the end of its decades-long monopoly as the sole integrator of Indian fighter aircraft (such as the Tejas and Su-30MKI). Several factors contributed to this shift:

  • Capacity & Delivery Record: The government reportedly favored a private-sector-led model to avoid the "bottlenecks" and "not-so-great delivery track record" historically associated with public sector aviation projects.
  • Loading the Dice: HAL officials noted that certain tender clauses—such as those discouraging companies with existing large order books—effectively penalized the state-run firm, which is currently overwhelmed with orders for the LCA Tejas Mk1A and Mk2.
  • Competitive Execution Model: The MoD’s new "Equal Opportunity" framework mandated that the contract go to the most capable bidder rather than the default state agency.

3. Key Program Milestones & Timeline​

The AMCA is India's most ambitious military project, aiming to make India only the fourth nation (after the US, Russia, and China) to possess 5th-generation stealth capabilities.

  • Project Budget: Roughly ₹15,000 crore (approx. $1.8 billion) has been allocated for the prototype development phase.
  • Prototypes: Five prototypes will be built. The winner of the current race will work with the ADA to manufacture these, with a rollout expected by 2028-2029.
  • First Flight: Targeted for 2029-2030.
  • Serial Production: Slated to begin by 2035. The Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to induct at least seven squadrons (approx. 120-140 jets).

4. Technical Specifications & The "Engine Conundrum"​

The AMCA will be a 25-tonne, twin-engine stealth fighter with features like an internal weapons bay, supercruise capability, and AI-driven data fusion. It will be developed in two versions:

  • AMCA Mark 1: Powered by the American GE F414 engine (the same engine that will power the Tejas Mk2).
  • AMCA Mark 2: Will feature a more powerful 120-kN engine to be co-developed indigenously. In a major move, India is in advanced talks with France’s Safran to build this engine with 100% transfer of technology (ToT).

5. Why This Matters​

  • Strategic Autonomy: By involving the private sector, the government is building a "defence-industrial ecosystem" rather than just a single plane. This ensures that the private sector develops the expertise to maintain and upgrade the fleet over its 40-year lifespan.
  • Countering Regional Threats: The program has been fast-tracked as China continues to deploy J-20 stealth fighters and Pakistan seeks to acquire J-31/J-35 stealth jets from China.
The Next Step: The three shortlisted companies will receive the Request for Proposal (RFP) by April 2026. A final winner is expected to be announced within three months thereafter, following the evaluation of commercial bids.


economictimes.indiatimes.com

AMCA fighter jet programme: Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge in fighter jet race; HAL out

Tata Advanced Systems, L&T and Bharat Forge have been shortlisted to build next-gen AMCA fighter jets after technical evaluation. HAL is out, with the final winner to be chosen in three months.
economictimes.indiatimes.com economictimes.indiatimes.com


@Major @Slim @KingKhanWC @Suleiman @Rana @HalBass9 @shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal @DeadlyVenom @Cpt. Rishwat @ElRaja @Markhor @KB @IAJ @emranabbas @Bilal7 @Bewal Express @Rajdeep @Nikhil_cric @cricketjoshila @RexRex @Devadwal @Romali_rotti @Hitman @straighttalk @jeeteshssaxena @Kaptan @uppercut @MP2011 @Vikram1989 @LongHorn @Stewie @globetrotter @Sachin fan @jnaveen1980 @nish_mate @LordJames @Josh @the Great Khan
 
To build a 5th-generation stealth fighter, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) isn't just looking for a manufacturer; they are looking for a Lead System Integrator (LSI) capable of managing thousands of sub-vendors and complex global supply chains.

Here is a breakdown of why Tata, L&T, and Bharat Forge have emerged as the final three, highlighting their specific expertise and strategic positioning for the AMCA project.

1. Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL)​

The Global Standard-BearerTata is widely considered the frontrunner due to its deep integration with global aerospace giants and its proven track record in manufacturing high-precision aerostructures.

  • Core Expertise: TASL is the only Indian private entity already building full aircraft assemblies. They manufacture the fuselage for the AH-64 Apache and wings for the C-130J Hercules. Most significantly, their joint venture with Airbus to manufacture the C-295 transport aircraft in Gujarat has given them the blueprint for a full-scale final assembly line (FAL).
  • Positioning for AMCA: Tata’s "plug-and-play" relationship with Western OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) makes them the safest bet for integrating foreign technology, such as the GE F414 engines. Their philosophy is centered on aerospace maturity—they already have the certified workforce and quality control systems that meet international stealth standards.

2. The L&T Consortium (with BEL & Dynamatic)​

The High-Tech Engineering PowerhouseLarsen & Toubro (L&T) does not just build structures; they build complex systems. By partnering with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) and Dynamatic Technologies, they have formed a "Triple Threat" consortium.

  • Core Expertise: L&T has decades of experience in the nuclear and submarine domains (including the Arihant-class subs), where precision and "stealth" (acoustic/radar) are paramount. BEL brings unrivaled expertise in India’s indigenous radar (AESA) and Electronic Warfare (EW) suites, while Dynamatic is a tier-1 supplier to Boeing and Airbus for complex wing parts.
  • Positioning for AMCA: L&T is positioned as the "System of Systems" integrator. Because a 5th-gen jet is essentially a flying supercomputer, L&T’s ability to merge heavy mechanical engineering with BEL’s high-end sensors makes them the most technically "rounded" bidder. They are the strongest choice for a truly indigenous "Made in India" architecture.

3. The Bharat Forge Consortium (with BEML & Data Patterns)​

The Disruptive Material SpecialistsLed by the Kalyani Group, this consortium is the "dark horse" that has rapidly pivoted from heavy forging to high-tech defense electronics and artillery.

  • Core Expertise: Bharat Forge is a world leader in metallurgy and complex forging. Stealth aircraft require specialized, heat-resistant, and radar-absorbent materials—areas where Bharat Forge’s metallurgical labs excel. Their partner, Data Patterns, is a rising star in Indian defense, specializing in the high-speed processors and cockpit displays (Glass Cockpits) required for modern fighters. BEML provides the massive industrial infrastructure needed for heavy assembly.
  • Positioning for AMCA: This group is positioned as the efficiency and indigenization specialist. They have shown an aggressive ability to "reverse engineer" and "indigenize" complex systems faster than traditional players (as seen with their ATAGS howitzer). Their bid is likely focused on structural integrity and cost-effective lifecycle management, offering a nimble alternative to the larger conglomerates.
 
finalfantasy7 said:
so strong that , france wont give you the source code for the jets, hence these jets cannot fully coperate within the indian system and also with the source code they are limited.

Still behind the JF-17


:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Lol


Jf17 kisi calculation mein hi nahi aata😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
Its good that govt is finally freedom from the clutches of Hal. The private defence eco system must get better for the improvement of Hal. Hope we get good results.
 
finalfantasy7 said:
has france provided you with the source code for the rafael?

The answer is NO

how come you left that out - i wonder why

source code is a huge part of the rafael isnt it.
Click to expand...

Why is spurce code needed? India isn't integrating indian weapons on rafale



Does paf has any counter to rafale withrbe2 aesa radar plus meteor plus spectra ew suite
.

Answer is no

So rafales integrated systems are enough for paf

So source code isnt needed unless india wants to integrate indian systems on rafale, whic isnt needed currently

Bhaijaan said:
@sweep_shot

Bangladesh Airforce has a lot of catching up to do brother. When are the Thunders arriving dear
Click to expand...


Ye joke acha tha? Bangladesh air force🤣
 
Few pakistanis believe that their jf17 is comparable to a premier nato jet like rafale, pakistan army has done good soft ware update
 
cricketjoshila said:
Why is spurce code needed? India isn't integrating indian weapons on rafale



Does paf has any counter to rafale withrbe2 aesa radar plus meteor plus spectra ew suite
.

Answer is no

So rafales integrated systems are enough for paf

So source code isnt needed unless india wants to integrate indian systems on rafale, whic isnt needed currently




Ye joke acha tha? Bangladesh air force🤣
Click to expand...
thats why we shot it down, source got isnt just about intergration, do more research on the source code, without it its limited
 
On the latest 114 Rafale purchase news. The BIGGEST ORDER in Dassault aviations history.

The Indian government has just approved the purchase of 114 Rafale aircraft, confirming its status as Dassault’s best-selling export product. This is yet another proof of the excellence of the French defense industry in international competition. On the geopolitical level, it is also a strong signal that underscores the importance of the strategic bilateral partnership between India and France. These ties of trust, respectful of the sovereignty and interests of each State, are a true cement for global stability. We will work to strengthen them in the years to come!

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021940123059827121

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022051800371605597
 
Useful information


Delhi: On Defence Acquisition Council clears a proposal to buy 114 Rafale fighter jets. Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh says, "... For the first time, Rafale aircraft will be manufactured outside France with significant levels of localisation. We are seeking a minimum of 40 to 50%... The first time 'Make in India,' Rafael outside France backed up by a government-to-government agreement, no intermediaries, full transparency in the project itself, G2G significant levels of localisation, and full authority to integrate Indian weapons and Indian systems are the highlights of this program. It also enables us to induct fighter aircraft relatively quickly because the first of the Rafale Marines will start coming in '28, and after that, over a period of time, you will see that about three and a half years from now, the first of these Air Force Rafales will also start coming..."

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022696839280197833

@Patriot @the Great Khan

Tagging defence experts here rather than ignorant people like @finalfantasy7
 
Bhaijaan said:
Useful information


Delhi: On Defence Acquisition Council clears a proposal to buy 114 Rafale fighter jets. Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh says, "... For the first time, Rafale aircraft will be manufactured outside France with significant levels of localisation. We are seeking a minimum of 40 to 50%... The first time 'Make in India,' Rafael outside France backed up by a government-to-government agreement, no intermediaries, full transparency in the project itself, G2G significant levels of localisation, and full authority to integrate Indian weapons and Indian systems are the highlights of this program. It also enables us to induct fighter aircraft relatively quickly because the first of the Rafale Marines will start coming in '28, and after that, over a period of time, you will see that about three and a half years from now, the first of these Air Force Rafales will also start coming..."

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022696839280197833

@Patriot @the Great Khan

Tagging defence experts here rather than ignorant people like @finalfantasy7
Click to expand...
ignorant, coming from a india, woooooow your going to try and make some of these rafael - we all know they will fall to peices before takeoff, good riddance
 
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