Do you believe in God?

[ChuckLee]

Simple question

God or science?

 

[desirous of desire]

Yes I do believe in God.
God has created this world in a systematic way. Every thing follows a set of principles.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Yes, I believe in God.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

I believe there is a creator, not sure about the established religions though.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Simple question

God or science?

Neither.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Which understanding of God? All religions are not the same. And what do you mean by God or science?

 

[enkidu_]

There's a Quranic verse in sura 2 where Allah swt says "remember Me ; I'll remember you" : the point is not if you "believe" in Him, but that if you remember Him enough - itself translated into performative acts and ritualization - that you'll be worth remembered by Him - "belief" in the modern Western sense is a by-product of Protestant-Kantian ethics, totally informal and virtual, while the Islamic view is the "remembrance" (dhikr) implies an existential experience, not merely verbal grandiloquence.

And science is the ship but not the destination.

 

[troodon]

With enough proof I will believe.

So far, no proof was provided from whatever I have seen in read. All religious folks can show is some text or some laughable miracles that no one ever saw.

 

[ChuckLee]

I think as time goes on. Religion would fade as people will realise it’s nothinf but mythology. It’s beinf disproved all the time.

Those who still believe in 100 years are either to far indoctrinated with thoughts of burning in Hell for eternity or are just ignorant.

 

[James]

Yes.

 

[Suleiman]

Yes. If you are waiting for materialistic proof then religion is probably not for you, because even if you are presented with some you will cope with that and need further proof.

Spirituality and things of that nature are built on experience, faith and learning about yourself from within. There are people who believe in God yet they are just going through the motions in exercising their worship. That fulfillment from prayer comes from zooming out of life, realizing the mortality of the world and your own, and then you can truly appreciate the divine.

It is hard to explain, but Alhamdullilah I have found purpose and a unique peace from salah that I have never felt before, I used to go through the motions as well and prayed only when my parents told me to. But now living on my own for a period of time, life became soulless. Wake up, go to class, go to work, the next task after that, and the one after that. I've begun to enjoy life and appreciate the beauty around me and within me.

But like I said, you have to experience it on your own, search for it. "What you seek is seeking you" - Rumi.

I don't mean to be overly mystical but just wanted to share my take on it as I usually avoid religious threads as they become an athiest/religion person pie throwing fest.

 

[troodon]

Yes. If you are waiting for materialistic proof then religion is probably not for you, because even if you are presented with some you will cope with that and need further proof.

Spirituality and things of that nature are built on experience, faith and learning about yourself from within. There are people who believe in God yet they are just going through the motions in exercising their worship. That fulfillment from prayer comes from zooming out of life, realizing the mortality of the world and your own, and then you can truly appreciate the divine.

It is hard to explain, but Alhamdullilah I have found purpose and a unique peace from salah that I have never felt before, I used to go through the motions as well and prayed only when my parents told me to. But now living on my own for a period of time, life became soulless. Wake up, go to class, go to work, the next task after that, and the one after that. I've begun to enjoy life and appreciate the beauty around me and within me.

But like I said, you have to experience it on your own, search for it. "What you seek is seeking you" - Rumi.

I don't mean to be overly mystical but just wanted to share my take on it as I usually avoid religious threads as they become an athiest/religion person pie throwing fest.

Materialistic Proof? Not for me.

Can you share some Proof that you are talking about?

 

[slipcatch]

Not trying to disrespect anyone.

This exclusive question is probably one of the dumbest question that has been asked by mostly who do not believe in God nor understand religion, particularly Islam.

One can believe in God and understand science. Understanding science does not required not to believe in God.

 

[tonmoy]

Yes. If you are waiting for materialistic proof then religion is probably not for you, because even if you are presented with some you will cope with that and need further proof.

Spirituality and things of that nature are built on experience, faith and learning about yourself from within. There are people who believe in God yet they are just going through the motions in exercising their worship. That fulfillment from prayer comes from zooming out of life, realizing the mortality of the world and your own, and then you can truly appreciate the divine.

It is hard to explain, but Alhamdullilah I have found purpose and a unique peace from salah that I have never felt before, I used to go through the motions as well and prayed only when my parents told me to. But now living on my own for a period of time, life became soulless. Wake up, go to class, go to work, the next task after that, and the one after that. I've begun to enjoy life and appreciate the beauty around me and within me.

But like I said, you have to experience it on your own, search for it. "What you seek is seeking you" - Rumi.

I don't mean to be overly mystical but just wanted to share my take on it as I usually avoid religious threads as they become an athiest/religion person pie throwing fest.

I am an apostate (of Bangladeshi origin) living in Canada. So NO I do not believe in God.

What if I show you proof from Muslim holy book of Quran that is undoubtedly false. Would it satisfy you that you are wrong or will you ask for further proof?

Quran
1/ [54:1] The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]

If the moon was split into two than a lot of the world would witness that (not only a particular tribe in arabia). Roman's kept meticulous record of astronomy at the time , there is no proof other than the islamic scripture that the moon was ever split.

In science term, if moon was split, the orbit of our earths rotation would also get impacted. Never happened.

2/ [7:54] Indeed, your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, Lord of the worlds

Heavens and earth was not created in 6 days. It is stolen from the story of Genesis in Bible.
You access the hubble space telescope, and you will find light from the earliest galaxies some 13.7 billion years ago.

I can give you plenty more if you want, but I know it will fall into deaf ears anyways .. so why waste time.

 

[Rayyman]

I am an apostate (of Bangladeshi origin) living in Canada. So NO I do not believe in God.

What if I show you proof from Muslim holy book of Quran that is undoubtedly false. Would it satisfy you that you are wrong or will you ask for further proof?

Quran
1/ [54:1] The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]

If the moon was split into two than a lot of the world would witness that (not only a particular tribe in arabia). Roman's kept meticulous record of astronomy at the time , there is no proof other than the islamic scripture that the moon was ever split.

In science term, if moon was split, the orbit of our earths rotation would also get impacted. Never happened.

2/ [7:54] Indeed, your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, Lord of the worlds

Heavens and earth was not created in 6 days. It is stolen from the story of Genesis in Bible.
You access the hubble space telescope, and you will find light from the earliest galaxies some 13.7 billion years ago.

I can give you plenty more if you want, but I know it will fall into deaf ears anyways .. so why waste time.

No.

 

[slipcatch]

I am an apostate (of Bangladeshi origin) living in Canada. So NO I do not believe in God.

What if I show you proof from Muslim holy book of Quran that is undoubtedly false. Would it satisfy you that you are wrong or will you ask for further proof?

Quran
1/ [54:1] The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]

If the moon was split into two than a lot of the world would witness that (not only a particular tribe in arabia). Roman's kept meticulous record of astronomy at the time , there is no proof other than the islamic scripture that the moon was ever split.

In science term, if moon was split, the orbit of our earths rotation would also get impacted. Never happened.

2/ [7:54] Indeed, your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, Lord of the worlds

Heavens and earth was not created in 6 days. It is stolen from the story of Genesis in Bible.
You access the hubble space telescope, and you will find light from the earliest galaxies some 13.7 billion years ago.

I can give you plenty more if you want, but I know it will fall into deaf ears anyways .. so why waste time.

Eclipse.
Earth is a globe
Day and night on different part of the earth.

Umm, I don't know

 

[Major]

I like how everyone overlooked the op.

You cannot deny science it exists.

But i believe god works through science.

If you break your bone, god isnt going to heal that bone with miracles, the body itself will heal it.

God has given the resource and has also provided us with the senses. Now its up to us humans how we use them.

God doesnt intervene in our life nor do i believe our destination is predestination.

To me predestination conflicts with the idea that life is an exam.

I think a better question is do you believe in after life

 

[PetroDollars]

silly question

since recorded history, there have been over 6000 gods humans have worshiped, some have been powerful men like the Pharaohs, some have worshiped an imaginary person hanging in the sky, some have worshiped statues and other objects as gods.

So the question is firstly - What iss your defination of god, because obviously its not the same for everyone.

 

[Abdul]

God, yes. I don't believe in any of the religions however.

 

[tonmoy]

I like how everyone overlooked the op.

You cannot deny science it exists.

But i believe god works through science.

If you break your bone, god isnt going to heal that bone with miracles, the body itself will heal it.

God has given the resource and has also provided us with the senses. Now its up to us humans how we use them.

God doesnt intervene in our life nor do i believe our destination is predestination.

To me predestination conflicts with the idea that life is an exam.

I think a better question is do you believe in after life

Just to quote Lawrence Krauss,
God may exist, but to define this universe and everything in it, the existence of God is not a necessity.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes.

 

[ManFan]

If you believe it, it is true.

That’s how faith works.

Religion offers an interpretation of God and what matters most is not the applicable of a sacred text but living through its spirit. What is the benefit of giving to the poor if the money comes from brutish means? What is the benefit of marrying multiple spouses to endulge in pleasures of the flesh?

I have not finished studying religions or theology but let this be an important fact: culture is not religion.

Let’s take the atheistic approach and assume all religions or sacred texts are faulted and man-made fairy tales?

But will they still not have benefits from their interpretations?

You can argue that interpretation leads to fanaticism and ammoral behavior. Yet, it is simply the morals of the interpreter that manifest themselves through the text. An un righteous and opportunistic sect that sees religion as a platform for their own puerile desires.

Religion will always remain a part of humanity because faith is a part of our being.

 

[Suleiman]

Materialistic Proof? Not for me.

Can you share some Proof that you are talking about?

There's plenty out there, use internet, books. It's not my job to convert anyone here. The resources are there, the choice is there. You can look yourself if you are interested.

If you wish to not believe in anything, that is fine, if you do, that is fine too.

Religion is a personal matter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I like how everyone overlooked the op.

You cannot deny science it exists.

But i believe god works through science.

If you break your bone, god isnt going to heal that bone with miracles, the body itself will heal it.

God has given the resource and has also provided us with the senses. Now its up to us humans how we use them.

God doesnt intervene in our life nor do i believe our destination is predestination.

To me predestination conflicts with the idea that life is an exam.

I think a better question is do you believe in after life

How can anybody have overlooked the OP? It was literally a question posed of three words: God or science?

You can address that in anyway you like and still be giving a reasonable answer.

Mine was 'neither', but I could also answer: 'possibly'.

 

[Pakistanian]

Yes.

 

[Major]

How can anybody have overlooked the OP? It was literally a question posed of three words: God or science?

You can address that in anyway you like and still be giving a reasonable answer.

Mine was 'neither', but I could also answer: 'possibly'.

thats like saying, God exists and science doesn't.

Or Science exists and God Doesn't.

 

[troodon]

There's plenty out there, use internet, books. It's not my job to convert anyone here. The resources are there, the choice is there. You can look yourself if you are interested.

If you wish to not believe in anything, that is fine, if you do, that is fine too.

Religion is a personal matter.

The Quranic God has no special info that I need to learn. Same with Jesus or any other religion.

I have seen videos of various people claiming Quran has already mentioned all the facts while the Science is only discovering them now. All lies.

There are no miracles and no proof except for some book that mentions it. Pretty weak.

 

[tonmoy]

The Quranic God has no special info that I need to learn. Same with Jesus or any other religion.

I have seen videos of various people claiming Quran has already mentioned all the facts while the Science is only discovering them now. All lies.

There are no miracles and no proof except for some book that mentions it. Pretty weak.

There are however many false claims...

 

[PakLFC]

I believe in Allah Ta'ala with all my heart and soul.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I'm very sure that my existence is not a mere coincidence and neither is the existence of the universe a mere coincidence.

In short, Yes. Without. A. Doubt.

Koi To Hai Joh
Nizaam e Hasti
Chala Raha Hai
Wohi Khuda Hai

 

[batnbowl]

Simple question

God or science?

Believe in Science and in a Creator - not a God

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Yes. I believe in God.

"Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds".

 

[Robert]

No. Not in the Creator sense.

I can go with Deism - God is immanent to Nature, they are the same thing - God as the aggregate of all the information in the Universe.

 

[Robert]

As for OP question I think it is a false dichotomy. One is a matter of spirituality, the other a tool for understand the Universe.

 

[barah_admi]

I think as time goes on. Religion would fade as people will realise it’s nothinf but mythology. It’s beinf disproved all the time.

Those who still believe in 100 years are either to far indoctrinated with thoughts of burning in Hell for eternity or are just ignorant.

Tell me one way in which God has been disproved. Just one.

 

[batnbowl]

Tell me one way in which God has been disproved. Just one.

First one needs to figure out what one means by God - if for example one believes in the Abrahamic God then fine - lets start with that - they next step would be for one to prove that that version of God actually exists.

 

[Mamoon]

Tell me one way in which God has been disproved. Just one.

I am not Chucklee, and my apologies for poking my nose because you don’t seem to appreciate that, but this question can easily be reserved and no one will be able to answer.

If you don’t have faith in God, no one can prove His existence to you.

If you have faith in God, no one can disprove His existence to you.

However, the burden of prove always lies on the believer. If I tell you that there is a pink elephant outside a door that cannot be opened, the burden lies on me to prove that there is a pink elephant outside because I am making that claim.

If you do not believe me, I cannot ask you to prove that there is not a pink elephant outside the door. Since the door cannot be opened, the only thing we have is faith.

As always, this is a tireless, endless debate that will always hit a wall - you cannot prove/disprove something that has no material existence, and whose existence cannot be verified by any empirical evidence.

God exists in the hearts and minds of people who believe in Him, but that does not mean that he is not real. It only means that He cannot be proven in any way.

However, as Christopher Hitchens famously stated:

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

In a nutshell, if I turn your question around and ask you to tell me one way in which God has been proved, no one in this world, including you, will be able to answer.

Hence, your question is illogical. You are the one who believes in God and you are the one who has to prove that He exists.The absence of proof that He does not exist is not proof of his existence.

That is all I have to say on this discussion. This topic has been recycled a thousand times and like always, it will slide down the pages after a stalemate.

I tend to stay away from these discussions nowadays because it will never reach a conclusion, but I do have a problem when people who believe ask others who do not believe to prove that God does not exist, instead of proving that He does.

 

[batnbowl]

I love Hitchens - that guy was a God send.....

 

[ChuckLee]

I like how everyone overlooked the op.

You cannot deny science it exists.

But i believe god works through science.

If you break your bone, god isnt going to heal that bone with miracles, the body itself will heal it.

God has given the resource and has also provided us with the senses. Now its up to us humans how we use them.

God doesnt intervene in our life nor do i believe our destination is predestination.

To me predestination conflicts with the idea that life is an exam.

I think a better question is do you believe in after life

Medicine comes from science and the hardworking people. Not god.

 

[ChuckLee]

Tell me one way in which God has been disproved. Just one.

Science and physics.

 

[ChuckLee]

Right now I worship the god Kohli.

 

[ChuckLee]

Not trying to disrespect anyone.

This exclusive question is probably one of the dumbest question that has been asked by mostly who do not believe in God nor understand religion, particularly Islam.

One can believe in God and understand science. Understanding science does not required not to believe in God.

Google the definition of science. Science and religion are mutually exclusive.

Science is based of facts and evidence.

Religion is mythology.

 

[barah_admi]

I am not Chucklee, and my apologies for poking my nose because you don’t seem to appreciate that, but this question can easily be reserved and no one will be able to answer.

If you don’t have faith in God, no one can prove His existence to you.

If you have faith in God, no one can disprove His existence to you.

However, the burden of prove always lies on the believer. If I tell you that there is a pink elephant outside a door that cannot be opened, the burden lies on me to prove that there is a pink elephant outside because I am making that claim.

If you do not believe me, I cannot ask you to prove that there is not a pink elephant outside the door. Since the door cannot be opened, the only thing we have is faith.

As always, this is a tireless, endless debate that will always hit a wall - you cannot prove/disprove something that has no material existence, and whose existence cannot be verified by any empirical evidence.

God exists in the hearts and minds of people who believe in Him, but that does not mean that he is not real. It only means that He cannot be proven in any way.

However, as Christopher Hitchens famously stated:

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

In a nutshell, if I turn your question around and ask you to tell me one way in which God has been proved, no one in this world, including you, will be able to answer.

Hence, your question is illogical. You are the one who believes in God and you are the one who has to prove that He exists.The absence of proof that He does not exist is not proof of his existence.

That is all I have to say on this discussion. This topic has been recycled a thousand times and like always, it will slide down the pages after a stalemate.

I tend to stay away from these discussions nowadays because it will never reach a conclusion, but I do have a problem when people who believe ask others who do not believe to prove that God does not exist, instead of proving that He does.

This is an argument that does not work with someone versed even in a tiny modicum of Islam, for it is entirely different to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or anything else. The Quran itself is an open dialogue between God and his creation. He questions us, cajoles us, scolds us and most importantly, provides us with evidence and education time and time again.

so if someone asks me how to prove God, I'd say study the Quran and even more importantly, the life of the final Prophet. That is evidence, whether or not someone wants to study it is a different story.

 

[barah_admi]

Science and physics.

Don't be facetious. Answer the question. Tell me which aspect of science has disproved God. Like I said, one example would suffice.

 

[troodon]

This is an argument that does not work with someone versed even in a tiny modicum of Islam, for it is entirely different to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or anything else. The Quran itself is an open dialogue between God and his creation. He questions us, cajoles us, scolds us and most importantly, provides us with evidence and education time and time again.

so if someone asks me how to prove God, I'd say study the Quran and even more importantly, the life of the final Prophet. That is evidence, whether or not someone wants to study it is a different story.

What, evidence and education of what?

How is study of Quran an evidence of God? It is just one of the hundreds of religions that exist or existed before. Of course it too makes claims without any proof.

 

[troodon]

Google the definition of science. Science and religion are mutually exclusive.

Science is based of facts and evidence.

Religion is mythology.

I laugh every time I hear the words like Hindu Mythology, Roman Mythology .. etc.

As if Abrahamic religions are full of facts.

 

[ChuckLee]

I laugh every time I hear the words like Hindu Mythology, Roman Mythology .. etc.

As if Abrahamic religions are full of facts.

None are facts. Just mythology

 

[Robert]

Don't be facetious. Answer the question. Tell me which aspect of science has disproved God. Like I said, one example would suffice.

Ok, we Northern Europeans used to think that Thor caused lightning by whacking things with Mjolnir.

Now we know about rising moist air and ions and stuff.

Though it could be argued that this does not disprove Thor, merely posits that he does a lot less than we thought.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Ok, we Northern Europeans used to think that Thor caused lightning by whacking things with Mjolnir.

Now we know about rising moist air and ions and stuff.

Though it could be argued that this does not disprove Thor, merely posits that he does a lot less than we thought.

Worship of thor was prevalent in Britain specifically?

 

[barah_admi]

What, evidence and education of what?

How is study of Quran an evidence of God? It is just one of the hundreds of religions that exist or existed before. Of course it too makes claims without any proof.

The Quran makes claims and makes them with proof, a lot of which is now being corroborated by science. Take that as you like.

 

[barah_admi]

Ok, we Northern Europeans used to think that Thor caused lightning by whacking things with Mjolnir.

Now we know about rising moist air and ions and stuff.

Though it could be argued that this does not disprove Thor, merely posits that he does a lot less than we thought.

That has nothing to do with what I posted.

 

[Robert]

That has nothing to do with what I posted.

Fair point, science hasn't disproved Thor at all, just shown how Thor makes the lightning. I had better start worshipping the Aesir again. Then the Valkyries will bear me to Asgard instead of Hel.

Science and imported Middle Eastern religions have deflected we Northern Europeans from the true pagan path.

 

[troodon]

The Quran makes claims and makes them with proof, a lot of which is now being corroborated by science. Take that as you like.

Like what? An example would be good.

 

[DeadBall]

Like what? An example would be good.

Mostly just confirmation bias and twisting of words to fits ones narrative. Most famous of such works is by Dr. Maurice Bucaille who incidentally was the royal physician of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Think Zakir Naik also has some pseudo religious scientific journal out there too.

http://www.sultan.org/articles/QScience.html

 

[Musakhel]

Read the Sanusi creed for starters or the Tahawi creed, will clear doubts.

 

[Belawal2014]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, a better question would be "Do you believe in an after life?".

 

[Justcrazy]

If you believe in God , there is No reason why you will not believe in Science .

 

[tonmoy]

If you believe in God , there is No reason why you will not believe in Science .

Everyone believes in science!!
Religion is there to provide you hope.... People believe in religion even after certain facts about the holy book contradicts all science based facts and theories.

 

[Darkrai]

Yes. Science helps us understand the incredible creations of God.

 

[B_Positive]

It doesn't matter if you believe or not. We need to work things on our own. What would this belief give us? God wont do our job. I watched a movie "Manjhi" and I really liked a line in it which said "Why depend on god, maybe god is depending upon you". We need to get above this religion thing really.

 

[Iffitheking]

I believe in God, but not Arabic, Indian. I am still searching for God.

 

[giri26]

I believe in god (Nature) but not the one which people pray and worship. Any god would be able to prevent destruction in his/her name which rarely happens. People just kill for religion/caste etc and I don't need such god who cannot protect the innocents.

 

[Robert]

Everyone believes in science!!

Except Flat Earthers, Climate Change Deniers and Evolution Deniers.

 

[Madplayer]

I believe in god (Nature) but not the one which people pray and worship. Any god would be able to prevent destruction in his/her name which rarely happens. People just kill for religion/caste etc and I don't need such god who cannot protect the innocents.

Does your "nature god" protect the innocents? This is overall and absurd post which makes no sense.

 

[rollingstoned]

I am not Chucklee, and my apologies for poking my nose because you don’t seem to appreciate that, but this question can easily be reserved and no one will be able to answer.

If you don’t have faith in God, no one can prove His existence to you.

If you have faith in God, no one can disprove His existence to you.

However, the burden of prove always lies on the believer. If I tell you that there is a pink elephant outside a door that cannot be opened, the burden lies on me to prove that there is a pink elephant outside because I am making that claim.

If you do not believe me, I cannot ask you to prove that there is not a pink elephant outside the door. Since the door cannot be opened, the only thing we have is faith.

As always, this is a tireless, endless debate that will always hit a wall - you cannot prove/disprove something that has no material existence, and whose existence cannot be verified by any empirical evidence.

God exists in the hearts and minds of people who believe in Him, but that does not mean that he is not real. It only means that He cannot be proven in any way.

However, as Christopher Hitchens famously stated:

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

In a nutshell, if I turn your question around and ask you to tell me one way in which God has been proved, no one in this world, including you, will be able to answer.

Hence, your question is illogical. You are the one who believes in God and you are the one who has to prove that He exists.The absence of proof that He does not exist is not proof of his existence.

That is all I have to say on this discussion. This topic has been recycled a thousand times and like always, it will slide down the pages after a stalemate.

I tend to stay away from these discussions nowadays because it will never reach a conclusion, but I do have a problem when people who believe ask others who do not believe to prove that God does not exist, instead of proving that He does.

true but in this case i suppose you don't really care whether or not another person is convinced in your belief which is precisely how it should be even though it isnt. God existing or not is a rather complex existential question. Like Voltaire said even if He does not exist His creation is necessary for humanity.

 

[giri26]

Does your "nature god" protect the innocents? This is overall and absurd post which makes no sense.

The nature doesn't but I don't expect it to, I just enjoy what is given to me and respect the nature. But people believe "GOD" will protect them but he/she does not. So what is the point of praying when a nut job decides to blow up a place, innocents including children lose their life when the "God" whom you have been praying all your life deserts you.

 

[Madplayer]

The nature doesn't but I don't expect it to, I just enjoy what is given to me and respect the nature. But people believe "GOD" will protect them but he/she does not. So what is the point of praying when a nut job decides to blow up a place, innocents including children lose their life when the "God" whom you have been praying all your life deserts you.

A wrong and a fallible argument. Any religious person (a muslim perspective) who understands his religious doctrine properly doesnt expect God to protect him or give him riches but to allow whatever is best for him to happen. You wont believe it, but in the mosques it is very common to hear the Imam praying out loud and asking God to give people what is best for them. Ofcourse they do pray for other things as well but the former supersedes all other prayers. If some event appears to be a cause of grave loss in this life, we have the hereafter where the person will be compensated as long as he had lived a good life. Children are considered sinless and if they lose their lives, they will be compensated to their satisfaction as well without questioning. God doesnt desert the believer and the believer doesnt desert God.

 

[Madplayer]

The nature doesn't but I don't expect it to, I just enjoy what is given to me and respect the nature. But people believe "GOD" will protect them but he/she does not. So what is the point of praying when a nut job decides to blow up a place, innocents including children lose their life when the "God" whom you have been praying all your life deserts you.

Also do you expect anything from your nature god? This is interesting.

 

[ChuckLee]

Does your "nature god" protect the innocents? This is overall and absurd post which makes no sense.

Nature does not have a consciousness like so called god of religion l. Your argument like every religious one is invalid.

 

[troodon]

A wrong and a fallible argument. Any religious person (a muslim perspective) who understands his religious doctrine properly doesnt expect God to protect him or give him riches but to allow whatever is best for him to happen. You wont believe it, but in the mosques it is very common to hear the Imam praying out loud and asking God to give people what is best for them. Ofcourse they do pray for other things as well but the former supersedes all other prayers. If some event appears to be a cause of grave loss in this life, we have the hereafter where the person will be compensated as long as he had lived a good life. Children are considered sinless and if they lose their lives, they will be compensated to their satisfaction as well without questioning. God doesnt desert the believer and the believer doesnt desert God.

Any proof of the compensation that the dead people have received? Or is it again one of those made up things without any proof.

If God already gives what is best for each person, why even pray to him? Is he is so narcissistic that God will not give you the best unless you pray to him/her?

Better pray to a tree and take care of it. It can give you shade, give you fruit and if not anything, it will give you oxygen to breathe.

 

[troodon]

Does your "nature god" protect the innocents? This is overall and absurd post which makes no sense.

Does your God protect innocents? Did he ever protect any innocent? For every one innocent protected, there will be thousands who have died.

Nature God at least give you fruit to eat and rain to drink. What does Islam say about Rain? How does Rain occur?

Your post makes no sense and totally absurd.

 

[Madplayer]

Nature does not have a consciousness like so called god of religion l. Your argument like every religious one is invalid.

An advice to you would be to read a given conversation before quoting a particular post. He claimed nature to be god and by default it becomes conscious. Moreover i would like to see if you and the poster that i was quoting agree with each other that nature doesnt have consciousness. If you dont, then you are actually bringing an irrelevant point into the discussion.

 

[Madplayer]

Any proof of the compensation that the dead people have received? Or is it again one of those made up things without any proof.

Mate, its called faith. I think its well established that parts of faith are blind and hence its called faith. If you want proof, no man can give it to you. And i dont claim to have it either.

If God already gives what is best for each person, why even pray to him? Is he is so narcissistic that God will not give you the best unless you pray to him/her?

God created us. Its only natural that we pray to Him because He holds power over everything and he is the one who created us. If you dont ask (pray) for something, how can you expect to get it? Do you go to the shopkeeper and stand silently infront of him expecting him to give you what you want without asking him? And if he doesnt give it to you, do you call him a narcissist because he didnt voluntarily give away things to you? This example is extremely basic but i guess you get the point i am trying to make. Even when you rebuke God or deny him, He loves you so much that He keeps sending you hints throughout your life to accept the truth of Him. Maybe my post here is a hint to you from God as well.

Better pray to a tree and take care of it. It can give you shade, give you fruit and if not anything, it will give you oxygen to breathe.

God created that tree and the oxygen it gives as well. Worship the creator not the created.

 

[Madplayer]

Does your God protect innocents? Did he ever protect any innocent? For every one innocent protected, there will be thousands who have died.

Ehhh? Kindly read the entire discussion before writing something. I was posing a counter question to the poster who said he believes in nature god because God of religion doesnt protect people.

Nature God at least give you fruit to eat and rain to drink. What does Islam say about Rain? How does Rain occur?

God created nature.

Your post makes no sense and totally absurd.

calm down. Relax. Breathe. Its just a discussion.

 

[Robert]

Nature does not have a consciousness like so called god of religion l. Your argument like every religious one is invalid.

I am not so sure.

When I play jazz in a live setting, and am deep in ‘the groove’ - the flow state that cricketers call ‘the zone’ - it is as though I am not playing the music at all.

Rather, the music is playing me. My hands move automatically with no conscious effort. As though I have become a lens or conduit for the music to flow through.

Where does this music come from?

I’m happy to call it some meta-Universe of pure information, and it’s the one definition of “God” that has ever made the blindest b’t of sense to me.

 

[imrankhannsu]

Yes I believe in God but also in science too

 

[yasir]

No. Not in the Creator sense.

I can go with Deism - God is immanent to Nature, they are the same thing - God as the aggregate of all the information in the Universe.

Concept of God is as vague as God himself. There is way too much overloading has been used in history, when describing God and that has not helped in any way to solve the mystery. We cannot lump everything as God, its better to use separate term to differentiate one from the other....

As for OP question I think it is a false dichotomy. One is a matter of spirituality, the other a tool for understand the Universe.

What exactly is spirituality? - most of the spiritual concepts are based on the boundaries of material concepts. It's almost like concept of zero and infinity in math, that help us solve many complex things and build abstract math, but in itself, it is not very meaningful. We generally put these labels when we don't know what we are talking about or when scale is irrelevant(for simplification)...

Spirituality is a cop out, its like a drug, that works, but it is still a bandit to problem, you have get deeper to unresolved the mystery behind it...Putting things in bucket like spirituality is like throwing cannon down the road, at some point, somebody has to work on it

 

[troodon]

Mate, its called faith. I think its well established that parts of faith are blind and hence its called faith. If you want proof, no man can give it to you. And i dont claim to have it either.


God created us. Its only natural that we pray to Him because He holds power over everything and he is the one who created us. If you dont ask (pray) for something, how can you expect to get it? Do you go to the shopkeeper and stand silently infront of him expecting him to give you what you want without asking him? And if he doesnt give it to you, do you call him a narcissist because he didnt voluntarily give away things to you? This example is extremely basic but i guess you get the point i am trying to make. Even when you rebuke God or deny him, He loves you so much that He keeps sending you hints throughout your life to accept the truth of Him. Maybe my post here is a hint to you from God as well.



God created that tree and the oxygen it gives as well. Worship the creator not the created.

How about if I say that tree created God or a tree is God? You cannot disprove it.

If it is simply a matter of faith as you mentioned, then you might as well worship a flying one eyed wolf instead of God. That will be faith too. Nobody should call that person as Kafir.

 

[Robert]

Concept of God is as vague as God himself. There is way too much overloading has been used in history, when describing God and that has not helped in any way to solve the mystery. We cannot lump everything as God, its better to use separate term to differentiate one from the other....

What exactly is spirituality?

A need for a feeling of connection with something greater. Be that a Creator God, or the Universe. Or football.

 

[DeadBall]

God created us. Do you go to the shopkeeper and stand silently infront of him expecting him to give you what you want without asking him? And if he doesnt give it to you, do you call him a narcissist because he didnt voluntarily give away things to you?

Well If the shopkeeper claims to be Omnipotent, All Knowing, Most Merciful etc then shouldn't he already know what you want and already have the groceries delivered to your house to save you the trouble of even going to the store?