Former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath - Child abuse suspicions raised again

[Yossarian]

Police watchdog probe over Sir Edward Heath child abuse claims


The police watchdog is to investigate claims a child sex abuse case was dropped because of threats to expose former Prime Minister Edward Heath.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said the inquiry concerns Wiltshire Police's handling of an alleged claim made in the 1990s.

It will also look at whether the force later took any steps to investigate these claims.

Anyone with information that can assist police is being asked to come forward.

The allegations were referred to the IPCC by a retired senior officer.

Sir Edward died at his home in Salisbury in 2005 aged 89.

An IPCC spokesman said: "It is alleged that a criminal prosecution was not pursued, when a person threatened to expose that Sir Edward Heath may have been involved in offences concerning children.

"In addition to this allegation, the IPCC will examine whether Wiltshire Police subsequently took any steps to investigate these claims."

In a statement, Wiltshire Police said: "Sir Edward Heath has been named in relation to offences concerning children.

"He lived in Salisbury for many years and we would like to hear from anyone who has any relevant information that may assist us in our inquiries or anyone who believes they may have been a victim.

"Some people may never have spoken out about the abuse they have suffered but we would urge them to please contact us and to not suffer in silence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-33755726

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]. Last time a thread was raised on PP, you were robustly arguing against the possibility of Sir Edward Heath being involved. Unless this new probe is again quietly buried, as has been the case many times thus far when allegations have been made against other senior politicians - allegations which have only been followed up long up after the politicians have died (as was the case with Sir Jimmy Saville and Sir Cyril Smith), and more recently Sir Leon Brittan, hope you will be following the events closely before jumping to the defence again.

Interestingly, right until his death, the authorities were still taking Sir Leon Brittan's word that he had handed over the dossier to the Home Office, given to him by Geoffrey Dickens MP when Sir Leon Brittan was the Home Secretary, containing allegations against other MP's and senior figures, and which miraculously went missing with no trace of it ever having been in the Home Office. Little did Geoffrey Dickens know that he was handing the dossier of allegations over to one of the leaders of the gang who's members were amongst those accused.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]. Last time a thread was raised on PP, you were robustly arguing against the possibility of Sir Edward Heath being involved. Unless this new probe is again quietly buried, as has been the case many times thus far when allegations have been made against other senior politicians - allegations which have only been followed up long up after the politicians have died (as was the case with Sir Jimmy Saville and Sir Cyril Smith), and more recently Sir Leon Brittan, hope you will be following the events closely before jumping to the defence again.

Oh dear.

I can't remember robustly defending Ted Heath as I don't recall very much about him. I recall that he sailed a yacht, and that his Government was brought down by the miners, and that's about it.

Well, let the truth be told. The sooner this rotten edifice is pulled down, the better.

 

[Jadz]

I thought Edward Heath was the type of compassionate leader the Conservatives needed. But after today's news, I am hoping that a full and thorough investigation will take place into this allegation.

If the right-wing media focused on the powerful paedophiles in Westminster story as much as they did the so-called 'crisis in Calais', maybe then the authorities would be compelled - by sheer force of public opinion - to address this matter. It seems as if both government and media are busy trying to distract attention, through the usual pathetic divide and rule machinations, instead of trying to uncover the true extent of paedophilia in powerful and elite circles.

The inquiry which has been set up by the Home Office, led by the highly-paid New Zealand judge, will hopefully shed light upon these disturbing allegations, provide justice for the victims and create a system whereby vulnerable people are protected from predatory abusers, who use their position to serve their evil desires.

 

[Sherlock]

I think it may of gone passed the presumption part and moved onto the culpable or responsible part.

When the whole Jimmy Saville case unfolded there were murmurs and rumours of how far the rabbit hole went in-regards to the Thatcher Government.

I think this is just the beginning tbh.

 

[Yossarian]

If rumours of the extent of those in the Establishment and senior politicians turn out to be true, then this could make the Jimmy Saville abuse allegations look pale in comparison.

Thus far, allegations against ex-Ministers include:
* Sir Edward Heath (Prime Minister)
* Sir Leon Brittan (Home Secretary)
* Sir Keith Joseph (Secretary of State for Education and Science )
* Sir Rhodes Boyson (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State)
* Sir Michael Havers (Attorney General), (father of actor Nigel Havers) and also brother of Judge Butler-Sloss who was originally chosen to head the child-abuse enquiry !!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Sherlock]

Police were also involved in covering up these allegations and abuse claims.

Truly shocking and a very emotive subject. And as it's been stated already, it's just the beginning.

 

[s28]

Is Camerons silence on this him quietly condoning crimes committed by tory politicians?

 

[Robert]

Is Camerons silence on this him quietly condoning crimes committed by tory politicians?

No. These are alleged crimes at present. And even if proven, he does not have to comment on things that happened before he was born.

 

[Yossarian]

No. These are alleged crimes at present. And even if proven, he does not have to comment on things that happened before he was born.

But he could make the current child abuse inquiry into a fully fledged Public Inquiry.

As things stand, the NZ Judge heading the inquiry, who's on a package of over £500,000+ per year, will not be reporting her findings until at least 2020 - by which time a few more of the accused would have died and/or had a chance to locate / hide / destroy more evidence.

It will follow the same pattern as the Iraq (Chilcot) Inquiry (where at least some of the hearings were held in public), which was started in 2009, and whose date for publishings its findings being keeps being put back over and over again - allegedly due to the Chairman ( Sir John Chilcot) conveniently allowing a certain ex-PM to use his influence to delay and tone down the findings. As things stand, there isn't even a hint of when the findings will be published.
At this rate, probably never.
Same goes for the child abuse inquiry.

 

[LongHorn]

Every now and then you hear someone lamenting about the "good old days", when apparently people had high moral values and respected each other.....

 

[s28]

Looking forward to this scandal bringing down the Tories for a generation.

Corbyn looking good for next Prime Minister.

 

[Robert]

Looking forward to this scandal bringing down the Tories for a generation.

I don't think so. The alleged perpetrators are all dead or out of politics for decades. I am not seeing any current Cabinet ministers being accused.

 

[s28]

yet

Unfortunately it is deeply ingrained in the culture of these people growing up in their culturally and sexually 'segregated' schools such as Eton and Harrow etc

Remember the Establishment is only releasing this information about dead Ministers now because it is safe to do so. Any scandal on the current lot would be subject to D notices preventing any journalist or media outlet reporting on it.

Worth educating yourself about what a D notice is although I expect you will either deny its existence or feign ignorance as you tend to do with inconvenient truths

 

[s28]

http://www.tpuc.org/blair-covering-up-paedophile-scandal/

 

[Yossarian]

I don't think so. The alleged perpetrators are all dead or out of politics for decades. I am not seeing any current Cabinet ministers being accused.

Maybe, maybe not - as [MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] says, we don't know what, if any, D notices have been issued and are still in force.

However,

Ex-Cameron aide Patrick Rock appears in court over child abuse images
A former senior aide to David Cameron has denied charges of making and possessing indecent images of children.

Patrick Rock, 63, pleaded not guilty at Southwark crown court in London to seven offences related to photographs of children as young as 10 found on his iPad last year.

Rock, who was one of the government’s chief advisers on online pornography filters, is accused of six counts of making indecent images of children and one charge of possessing 56 indecent images of children.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/19/cameron-aide-patrick-rock-in-court-child-abuse-images

Simon Danczuk: I was warned not to challenge Leon Brittan over paedophile dossier
The MP claims a Conservative MP told him not to name Leon Brittan in a parliamentary committee and suggested he could be responsible for his death if he did

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nge-Leon-Brittan-over-paedophile-dossier.html

That sounds like someone who's still a current Tory MP that's doing the threatening.

 

[Markhor]

If these allegations are proven to be true its very disappointing and obviously appalling.

Ted Heath was one of the good Tories, the last of the One Nation Tories before it became a hard-right neo-liberal Thatcherite cult. He sacked Enoch Powell after his racist Rivers of Blood speech despite his popularity within his own party, accepted in the Ugandan Asians who were fleeing the tyranny of Idi Amin and invested in the economy, stopping industries going out of business through state subsidy which today's Tores wouldn't dream of doing.

But sexual abuse will overshadow all of these things. Its inexcusable and the establishment coverups that've occurred shows how hypocritical this country has become over the years - for all our lecturing to other countries about human rights and transparency, we cover up for paedophiles, bankers have carte blanche to wreck the economy and if you're rich and powerful you're above the law.

 

[Robert]

yet

Unfortunately it is deeply ingrained in the culture of these people growing up in their culturally and sexually 'segregated' schools such as Eton and Harrow etc

Remember the Establishment is only releasing this information about dead Ministers now because it is safe to do so. Any scandal on the current lot would be subject to D notices preventing any journalist or media outlet reporting on it.

Worth educating yourself about what a D notice is although I expect you will either deny its existence or feign ignorance as you tend to do with inconvenient truths

I agree with the bit about public schools, particularly those of earlier generations. If you repress sexuality, it can come out in destructive ways. See also paedophile priests, who are banned from marriage. Though I would counsel you not to use the perjorative generalisation "these people". I am sure that most public schoolboys are not paedophiles, as I am sure that most working-class Pakistanis from Rochdale and Bradford are not either.

I see no connection between sexually segregated schools and paedophilia. It doesn't make one a paeophile - it can make one awkward with the opposite sex, though.

I've known what a D-notice is since the early eighties actually - Maggie was fond of using them. Harold Wilson slapped one on The Daily Express in 1967, and later alleged that the paper had breached it but the courts found for the paper.

BTW they have been called DA-Notices (Defence-Advisory) since 1993, so perhaps you should retract your presumption of greater education then me on this point.

I am unsure how much use a DA-notice is in the era of social media, wikileaks and so on, which suggests that any alleged paedophiles in the current government would not be protected wholely and effectively by such a device.

 

[Robert]

If these allegations are proven to be true its very disappointing and obviously appalling.

Ted Heath was one of the good Tories, the last of the One Nation Tories before it became a hard-right neo-liberal Thatcherite cult. He sacked Enoch Powell after his racist Rivers of Blood speech despite his popularity within his own party, accepted in the Ugandan Asians who were fleeing the tyranny of Idi Amin and invested in the economy, stopping industries going out of business through state subsidy which today's Tores wouldn't dream of doing.

Yeah, it's a horrible thought isn't it? I'd probably be a One Nation Tory if there were any of them left, instead of the NeoLibs.

 

[Yossarian]

I am unsure how much use a DA-notice is in the era of social media, wikileaks and so on, which suggests that any alleged paedophiles in the current government would not be protected wholely and effectively by such a device.

The Establishment is still able to defend their own.

Just take the example of Sir Leon Brittan, who's word was being taken at face value as recently as late last year just before he died, when he was asked about the missing dossier, on child-abuse by prominent individuals, handed to him by Geoffrey Dickens MP when Sir Leon Brittan was the Home Secretary, even though, by that stage, allegations were already being made that Sir Leon Brittan himself was part of the same group of paedophiles mentioned in Geoffrey Dickens dossier.

Little did Geoffrey Dickens know that he was handing over the dossier to one of the leaders of the same group of paedophiles who's members were named in his dossier.
No wonder it went missing.

or

Take the example of the accusations against Lord Janner, where the CPS decided earlier this year not to prosecute him since he was 'incapable of facing trial' due to dementia - and yet he was still attending the House of Lords, on over 200 occasions, to vote on government legislation after he was supposedly found to be mentally unfit. Fortunately, due to public pressure, the CPS decision has been overturned and he will face prosecution. Don't tell me that wasn't an another attempt by the paedophile gang in protecting one of their own.

 

[s28]

FOUR police forces now investigating this and several more witnesses/victims have come forward.

Tory party must be very worried about how this could escalate.

Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris is one thing they can be derided as crazy celebrities who used their 'fame' to oppress and suppress but the PRIME MINISTER of the Country and other leading Tory Cabinet Ministers would have had the full machinery of the State to mount their campaigns of oppression and suppression.

 

[Robert]

FOUR police forces now investigating this and several more witnesses/victims have come forward.

Five - Hampshire have just joined.

 

[Yossarian]

Five - Hampshire have just joined.

Still no guarantee that everything will be uncovered and made public bearing in mind that there are still many in positions of power, allegedly in the police, judiciary, Parliament, and even the intelligence services (- MI5 is even alleged to have facilitated child-abuse so as to obtain blackmail material against politicians and other Establishment figures.) and who were either personally involved in child-abuse, or at the least helped in the decades long cover-up.

Until there is a prosecution of a prominent senior figure (who's still alive !), whether from the Establishment, police, judiciary or politics, with witnesses being called and cross-examined in open court, there is still too much scope for things to be hushed up.

 

[Bewal Express]

These allegations may or may not be true but Aren't people suspicious that these allegations are made mostly when people are dead and can't defend themselves. My own instinct tells me that the Ted Heath allegations are rubbish.

 

[Yossarian]

These allegations may or may not be true but Aren't people suspicious that these allegations are made mostly when people are dead and can't defend themselves. My own instinct tells me that the Ted Heath allegations are rubbish.

In that case, according to your logic, you'll probably also say that the allegations against Jimmy Saville are also rubbish since they are being made after his death and he can't defend himself !!

 

[Bewal Express]

In that case, according to your logic, you'll probably also say that the allegations against Jimmy Saville are also rubbish since they are being made after his death and he can't defend himself !!

So one case means that every one is guilty. By that logic if someone alleges something after you die, you must be guilty.

 

[Yossarian]

So one case means that every one is guilty. By that logic if someone alleges something after you die, you must be guilty.

But of course 'your instinct' is telling you that very serious allegations, being reported around the whole world, against an ex-Prime Minister, are all rubbish

Its a good thing that, finally, all the allegations are being properly investigated by the police instead of the police relying upon the instinct of a PPer named Bewal Express to determine if Ted Heath was a paedophile or not.

.... My own instinct tells me that the Ted Heath allegations are rubbish.

 

[Yossarian]

.... My own instinct tells me that the Ted Heath allegations are rubbish.

Now why is your 'instinct' doing that? You ever met the man or have any dealings with him ...... did you ?

 

[Bewal Express]

Having read alot on Heath i just find these allegations difficult to believe but my instinct maybe wrong but it seems that this is a train people are jumping on, when those people are not here to defend themselves.

 

[Bewal Express]

But would you be happy if people made allegations about you after you have gone and you are not here to defend yourself.

 

[mani1]

Ted Heath 'abused boys young as 11'

Bombshell police report details 42 assault claims and one 'rape of underage male' with two cases linked to ex-premier's interest in sailing
The controversial report into paedophile allegations against Sir Edward Heath includes claims he sexually assaulted boys as young as 11
Some of the more serious allegations are linked to the sailing world
The report will say that seven of the allegations are sufficiently credible to justify questioning Sir Edward under caution were he alive today


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4937366/Ted-Heath-abused-boys-young-11.html#ixzz4uRxWUDIF

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This case has been all the more odd because there has been quite a bit of anger directed by some sections of the media at the police enquiry into the allegations as if it is all a huge waste of money. I don't really understand this line of thinking. If such horrible crimes were committed by someone in a position of power, shouldn't we know the truth?

If you want justice, you have to stay neutral, not just expect the police to take aim at more comfortable targets. This is Britain, our standards should be higher than the third world.

 

[Yossarian]

I thought I'd bump up this thread form 2015

Heath sex inquiry to allege the former Prime Minister abused youngsters at sea

It is understood that the report will even include a claim by an alleged victim that Sir Edward, who died in 2005, raped him during a voyage to the Channel Islands.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lege-former-prime-minister-abused-youngsters/

. .....My own instinct tells me that the Ted Heath allegations are rubbish.

Still think they're rubbish?

 

[Bewal Express]

I thought I'd bump up this thread form 2015


Still think they're rubbish?

Yes because when the guy was alive nobody made the allegations and suddenly he is supposed to have done all these terrible things.

 

[Yossarian]

Every time this is alleged and reported in the media, everything goes quiet and slowly gets buried.

This is from #5 above.

Police have named Sir Edward Heath as a suspected paedophile in the most extraordinary twist yet in the ongoing investigation into allegations of historic child abuse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...stigation.html

Sir Edward Heath child abuse claims: Alleged victim 'was raped by ex PM when he was just 12'

The alleged victim, now 64, says the sexual assault took place in an exclusive Mayfair flat in 1961 when Heath was a Tory MP

Former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath raped a 12-year-old boy after picking up the youngster when he ran away from home, it has been sensationally claimed.

The alleged victim, now 64, says the sexual assault took place in an exclusive Mayfair flat in 1961 when Heath was a Tory MP.

Detectives from Scotland Yard’s sexual exploitation unit have been informed of the claims from the man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, and plan to interview him.

The Mirror can reveal for the first time specific details the alleged victim has made in statements to his legal team which are due to be passed to police.

The man reported the attack two months after the incident but says he was “fobbed off” by social workers.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-abuse-6188388

I'm betting that many of those involved are still around, with some still having contacts and/or in senior positions so as bury allegations like these every time they come close to being proven and widely reported.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes because when the guy was alive nobody made the allegations and suddenly he is supposed to have done all these terrible things.

So obviously in that case you also disagree with the accusations made against Jimmy Saville? After all, according to you "when the guy was alive nobody made the allegations and suddenly he is supposed to have done all these terrible things"!


Ever considered that because he was The Prime Minister of United Kingdom, nobody believed the accusers, because it was only the words of young boys from care homes making the accusations?

 

[Bewal Express]

So obviously in that case you also disagree with the accusations made against Jimmy Saville? After all, according to you "when the guy was alive nobody made the allegations and suddenly he is supposed to have done all these terrible things"!


Ever considered that because he was The Prime Minister of United Kingdom, nobody believed the accusers, because it was only the words of young boys from care homes making the accusations?

But why all the accusations when they are dead? With Jimmy Saville its slightly different because in his life time there was a veiled confession by him, " people will hate me when i am dead". But i still believe that many people making the allegations after his death were in it to make a buck.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But why all the accusations when they are dead? With Jimmy Saville its slightly different because in his life time there was a veiled confession by him, " people will hate me when i am dead". But i still believe that many people making the allegations after his death were in it to make a buck.

Does that include the police? They seem to think there's definitely a case to answer here.

 

[Yossarian]

But why all the accusations when they are dead? With Jimmy Saville its slightly different because in his life time there was a veiled confession by him, " people will hate me when i am dead". But i still believe that many people making the allegations after his death were in it to make a buck.

Because, after the Jimmy Saville revelations, many of the victims are now finally being listened to. According to the allegations made previously, there was a paedophile ring at the very top of the Extablishment, which included MP's, Government Ministers, Senior Civil Servants, members of the judiciary, even a very senior military officer. Plus the PM. Jimmy Saville had links to that paedophile ring.
Who's going to believe accusations against the aforementioned made by some low level member of the public, or young boys from a care home? And just in case they were believed, the aforementioned ring members were in the perfect positions to bury it all. Sometimes, allegedly, literally.

 

[Bewal Express]

Because, after the Jimmy Saville revelations, many of the victims are now finally being listened to. According to the allegations made previously, there was a paedophile ring at the very top of the Extablishment, which included MP's, Government Ministers, Senior Civil Servants, members of the judiciary, even a very senior military officer. Plus the PM. Jimmy Saville had links to that paedophile ring.
Who's going to believe accusations against the aforementioned made by some low level member of the public, or young boys from a care home? And just in case they were believed, the aforementioned ring members were in the perfect positions to bury it all. Sometimes, allegedly, literally.

There is something to what you say but it feels too convenient that so many people suddenly find a will to speak up. I can imagine that what you say for some of these people but not as many as suddenly came forward.

 

[Bewal Express]

Does that include the police? They seem to think there's definitely a case to answer here.

Its sad that it will never come to court to give Heath a chance to defend himself and convict if what is alleged is true. Werent similar allegations made against Leon Britton but were later rubbished.

 

[s28]

I think it's part of the colonial Stockholm Syndrome some people will always believe White Authoritarian figures and hate their own kind.

It's a tragic effect of child abuse that it leads to such psychological trauma many of these children go off the rails and can thus be dismissed as liars/in it for money/having brought it on themselves etc i.e. victim blaming

For some people they are left in a real quandary when Pakistani gangs abuse care home children because they hate both although they eventually allow their internal hatred/bias to show through. But when one of their White masters is implicated they are happy to start victim blaming again.

 

[Yossarian]

Its sad that it will never come to court to give Heath a chance to defend himself and convict if what is alleged is true. Werent similar allegations made against Leon Britton but were later rubbished.

Every time this is alleged and reported in the media, everything goes quiet and slowly gets buried.

This is from #5 above.



I'm betting that many of those involved are still around, with some still having contacts and/or in senior positions so as bury allegations like these every time they come close to being proven and widely reported.

Despite meticulous records being kept by the Home Office and other government departments, it's never been explained as to how the dossier on an alleged paedophile ring that Geoffrey Dickens MP compiled and gave to Leon Brittan in 1984, when Leon Brittan was Home Secretary, went missing and no records or trace of it has ever been found in the Home Office.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think it's part of the colonial Stockholm Syndrome some people will always believe White Authoritarian figures and hate their own kind.

It's a tragic effect of child abuse that it leads to such psychological trauma many of these children go off the rails and can thus be dismissed as liars/in it for money/having brought it on themselves etc i.e. victim blaming

For some people they are left in a real quandary when Pakistani gangs abuse care home children because they hate both although they eventually allow their internal hatred/bias to show through. But when one of their White masters is implicated they are happy to start victim blaming again.

Where do you live?

 

[s28]

What business is it of yours ?

 

[Robert]

Horrible to think of a paedophile ring operating right at the heart of the British Government.

If throws up links to anyone still alive, they must be investigated. Thus cancer must be cut out no matter where it has metastasised.

 

[Yossarian]

For some people they are left in a real quandary when Pakistani gangs abuse care home children because they hate both although they eventually allow their internal hatred/bias to show through. But when one of their White masters is implicated they are happy to start victim blaming again.

Unfortunately, there's plenty of those who have listened so much to 'nostalgic stories of the British Raj' from those who lived under colonial rule in British India (passed down via their parents/grandparents), that deep down in their hearts they wish they'd lived during those times.

 

[Yossarian]

Horrible to think of a paedophile ring operating right at the heart of the British Government.

If throws up links to anyone still alive, they must be investigated. Thus cancer must be cut out no matter where it has metastasised.

Will never happen. Too many of the Establishment involved. Meaning safeguarding and maintaining 'the family name' and the associated class based networks even long after the perpetrators have died. Only those originally not of The Establishment, such as Cyril Smith, will be fully exposed, like throwing a bone to a dog to keep him quiet.

 

[Bewal Express]

What business is it of yours ?

You keep accusing people of being sub servient to white people, i just wondered whether you lived in a white country. If you did then you are hypocrite.

 

[s28]

I live in Britain. It's a Country which has been settled by waves of migrants over many years. I'm British which is a separate identity from being White.

 

[Robert]

Will never happen. Too many of the Establishment involved. Meaning safeguarding and maintaining 'the family name' and the associated class based networks even long after the perpetrators have died. Only those originally not of The Establishment, such as Cyril Smith, will be fully exposed, like throwing a bone to a dog to keep him quiet.

I'm not sure I believe in the 'Establishment" to be honest. A term that had traction in the hippy sixties, which Owen Jones brought back into circulation.

 

[Bewal Express]

I live in Britain. It's a Country which has been settled by waves of migrants over many years. I'm British which is a separate identity from being White.

All Laws in the UK are made by white people, for a guy that comes out with such generalised statements, arent you hypocrite for being a slave to your white masters.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm not sure I believe in the 'Establishment" to be honest. A term that had traction in the hippy sixties, which Owen Jones brought back into circulation.

No of course you don't. It's just pure bad luck that all these allegations about a paedophile ring that included MP's, Government Ministers, Senior Civil Servants, members of the judiciary, even a very senior military officer, plus the PM, were never investigated and the victims claims not believed. It was also just pure bad luck that Jimmy Savile, who had close links with many of those in this alleged paedophile ring, including the PM, also managed to get away with his child molestation activities for decades.
Yep, just pure coincidence and bad luck.

 

[Yossarian]

All Laws in the UK are made by white people, for a guy that comes out with such generalised statements, arent you hypocrite for being a slave to your white masters.

Considering that there are Parliamentarians of many different ethnicities and backgrounds, including blacks and desis, both in the House of Commons (MP's) and House of Lords, as well as non-white government ministers (eg Priti Patel, the Secretary of State for International Development, and Sajid Javid , the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government), and not forgetting Sadiq Khan, the elected Mayor of London, I would suggest that your statement reeks of ignorance and is a load of ......

 

[Bewal Express]

Considering that there are Parliamentarians of many different ethnicities and backgrounds, including blacks and desis, both in the House of Commons (MP's) and House of Lords, as well as non-white government ministers (eg Priti Patel, the Secretary of State for International Development, and Sajid Javid , the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government), and not forgetting Sadiq Khan, the elected Mayor of London, I would suggest that your statement reeks of ignorance and is a load of ......

Not that it was the point but please tell which laws were passed by ethnic minorities so that you and our friend are not subservient to the white masters? Anyway you like him missed my point, which is not really a surprise. Apparently, we are subservient to our white masters but you guys live under a different set of laws.

 

[Yossarian]

Not that it was the point but please tell which laws were passed by ethnic minorities so that you and our friend are not subservient to the white masters? Anyway you like him missed my point, which is not really a surprise. Apparently, we are subservient to our white masters but you guys live under a different set of laws.

I've already pointed out to you the examples of non-white Parliamentarians as MP's and in the House of Lords, as well as Government Ministers. If you had any notion of how laws are made, you'd know that in the UK all laws have to be passed in Parliament. And since the Cabinet operates on the basis of collective responsibility, any laws proposed by the govt and passed by Parliament, it means that the aforementioned desi origin Govt, Ministers are also involved in passing these laws.

Now I suggest you try and add 2 + 2 and see if you can get the answer.

 

[Bewal Express]

I've already pointed out to you the examples of non-white Parliamentarians as MP's and in the House of Lords, as well as Government Ministers. If you had any notion of how laws are made, you'd know that in the UK all laws have to be passed in Parliament. And since the Cabinet operates on the basis of collective responsibility, any laws proposed by the govt and passed by Parliament, it means that the aforementioned desi origin Govt, Ministers are also involved in passing these laws.

Now I suggest you try and add 2 + 2 and see if you can get the answer.

I am so glad that you educated me on how laws are passed in the UK. I never knew any of this, i wish i knew some of this when i was a student organiser at Uni. I wish i knew all the desis were part of the law making process, there is me in my ignorance thinking that they went to parliament to make the tea and waste a bit of time. I just wish my white masters taught me this. Maybe they can teach you something about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty- which someone forgot to tell you is fundamental part of the British law

 

[Yossarian]

I am so glad that you educated me on how laws are passed in the UK. I never knew any of this, i wish i knew some of this when i was a student organiser at Uni. I wish i knew all the desis were part of the law making process, there is me in my ignorance thinking that they went to parliament to make the tea and waste a bit of time. I just wish my white masters taught me this. Maybe they can teach you something about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty- which someone forgot to tell you is fundamental part of the British law

Appears you haven't learnt much then. Considering that you're now making false allegations by adding the word "all" to make it appear as if I said "all the desis were part of the law making process" as opposed to just the aforementioned Members of Parliament as I stated.

As for your comment about teaching me about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, show me where I've written otherwise. It appears to be another case of a false accusation made by you.

I must point out to you that if you continue to twist sentences and/or add words so as to falsely make it appear that a poster wrote something that they didn't, then I will be obliged to bring it to the attention of the @Mods. As I understand, false accusations are against the forum rules.

 

[s28]

All Laws in the UK are made by white people, for a guy that comes out with such generalised statements, arent you hypocrite for being a slave to your white masters.

Really? There are academic experts who've suggested that some of the key founding principles in English Common Law came from Islamic implementations of law going back centuries.

 

[Robert]

No of course you don't. It's just pure bad luck that all these allegations about a paedophile ring that included MP's, Government Ministers, Senior Civil Servants, members of the judiciary, even a very senior military officer, plus the PM, were never investigated and the victims claims not believed. It was also just pure bad luck that Jimmy Savile, who had close links with many of those in this alleged paedophile ring, including the PM, also managed to get away with his child molestation activities for decades.
Yep, just pure coincidence and bad luck.

To be fair, victims' claims were not believed in most such situations historically. The number of people who tell me they were molested by family members - it almost always got hushed up for the sake of peace in the family. Only more recently are victims likely to be believed.

 

[Yossarian]

To be fair, victims' claims were not believed in most such situations historically. The number of people who tell me they were molested by family members - it almost always got hushed up for the sake of peace in the family. Only more recently are victims likely to be believed.

Huh?

 

[Yossarian]

To be fair, victims' claims were not believed in most such situations historically. The number of people who tell me they were molested by family members - it almost always got hushed up for the sake of peace in the family. Only more recently are victims likely to be believed.

Except in this case we're talking about the likes of Geoffrey Kenneth Dickens MP personally handing a dossier, the details of which were "explosive" and would "blow the lid off" the lives of powerful and famous child abusers, to the then Home Secretary Sir Leon Brittan. A dossier which miraculously disappears with no trace of it of where it.

His son Barry Dickens told the BBC's Matt Prodger: "I would like Lord Brittan to name the very next person he handed it on to.

"And where did it end up? There must have been a person who was the last to handle it.

"My father thought that the dossier at the time was the most powerful thing that had ever been produced, with the names that were involved and the power that they had."

[...]

Around the time that the dossier was handed in, Mr Dickens said the MP's London flat and his constituency home were both broken into and ransacked within the same week, but that "nothing was taken".

"They weren't burglaries," he added. "They were break-ins for a reason. We can only presume they were after something that dad had that they wanted."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28141531

 

[Bewal Express]

Appears you haven't learnt much then. Considering that you're now making false allegations by adding the word "all" to make it appear as if I said "all the desis were part of the law making process" as opposed to just the aforementioned Members of Parliament as I stated.

As for your comment about teaching me about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, show me where I've written otherwise. It appears to be another case of a false accusation made by you.

I must point out to you that if you continue to twist sentences and/or add words so as to falsely make it appear that a poster wrote something that they didn't, then I will be obliged to bring it to the attention of the @Mods. As I understand, false accusations are against the forum rules.

Really? There are academic experts who've suggested that some of the key founding principles in English Common Law came from Islamic implementations of law going back centuries.

Firstly, i should have made clear that by desis i meant desis in the political sphere( whose influence is at best negligible). If you start accusing people about being slaves" But when one of their White masters is implicated they are happy to start victim blaming again" or " that deep down in their hearts they wish they'd lived during those times" and then live in modern Britain, under British laws, THEN I SAY you are hypocrites. In British law as you will know accusations are start of the process and people still have to be prosecuted and convicted baring in mind that the conviction rate for rape is as low 5%( which proves that these sort horrendous crimes are incredibly difficult to prove). They may or may not be true, and many of the people that the allegations are made on behalf of,are also dead.
It is ironic and hypocritical that our friend that accuses others of subservient to white masters but then lives under the same laws that the white people have passed( the best he can do is to say that they have an Islamic influence). If he was so proud, he would have left the country!
To cut a long story short, my point was that some of the allegation are rubbish because some people want to make money out of it but on the other hand as we have seen with Saville and others, there is substance to the allegations.

 

[s28]

There are some things in plain sight that people hardly ever comment on e.g. Harriet Harman a New Labour 'star' was an advocate for Paedophile groups

Of course because she is part of the Establishment they don't bring this up

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Doesn't really matter who the laws are written by or who they were aimed at, I just think now we are in the business of debating cultural and racial background of perpetrators of horrific crimes, it would be amiss if we failed to do so here. We need some media front pages on why white Anglo Saxon males are so often involved in paedophile rings and why the establishment ( white male dominated) also seems to have played a hand in hushing things up.

 

[Yossarian]

To cut a long story short, my point was that some of the allegation are rubbish because some people want to make money out of it but on the other hand as we have seen with Saville and others, there is substance to the allegations.

But unless these allegations are investigated, one cannot say that they are genuine or rubbish. And that's even assuming that those ultimately responsible for doing the investigations are impartial and not involved in some way or another themselves.
See some of the earlier posts in this thread in that regard.

 

[Robert]

There are some things in plain sight that people hardly ever comment on e.g. Harriet Harman a New Labour 'star' was an advocate for Paedophile groups

Of course because she is part of the Establishment they don't bring this up

But you do because she is not a Corbynista.

Harman accepted that her much younger pre-Establishment self made a mistake concerning the long-defunct Paedophile Infomation Exchange, and has apologised for it.

 

[Bewal Express]

But unless these allegations are investigated, one cannot say that they are genuine or rubbish. And that's even assuming that those ultimately responsible for doing the investigations are impartial and not involved in some way or another themselves.
See some of the earlier posts in this thread in that regard.

I agree they need to investigate both for the victims sake and the accused. The Heath thing leaves the whole thing as a complete mess and doesnt bring an closure to the whole sordid affair.

 

[Bewal Express]

Doesn't really matter who the laws are written by or who they were aimed at, I just think now we are in the business of debating cultural and racial background of perpetrators of horrific crimes, it would be amiss if we failed to do so here. We need some media front pages on why white Anglo Saxon males are so often involved in paedophile rings and why the establishment ( white male dominated) also seems to have played a hand in hushing things up.

I agree but that is not the same as feeling sorry for the " white masters". I dont know any of these guys more than anyone else on the forum. I do know from experience in working in teaching that false allegations are made for money and that also can never be ruled out. There is also no doubt that they( famous) will have the best lawyers and the victims and the alleged perpetrators dont have equal access to justice. But on the other hand,as we saw with Archer etc, that famous people also end up in jail.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree but that is not the same as feeling sorry for the " white masters". I dont know any of these guys more than anyone else on the forum. I do know from experience in working in teaching that false allegations are made for money and that also can never be ruled out. There is also no doubt that they( famous) will have the best lawyers and the victims and the alleged perpetrators dont have equal access to justice. But on the other hand,as we saw with Archer etc, that famous people also end up in jail.

Sorry, this white masters conversation seems to have gone completely over my head. I had to scroll back quite far back up the page to see what it was in reference to. Seems to be a separate conversation in itself between you and s28.

 

[s28]

But you do because she is not a Corbynista.

Harman accepted that her much younger pre-Establishment self made a mistake concerning the long-defunct Paedophile Infomation Exchange, and has apologised for it.

yes just a minor error of judgement involving supporting the same Paedophile group Ted Heath had links with

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edward-heath-fixed-jimmy-savile-6220604

Edward Heath fixed it for Jimmy Savile to receive OBE and attended Paedophile Information Exchange meetings


If you want to guess why there is a 'conspiracy of silence' ask why Tory/Labour/BBC Establishment were all 'batting' on the same side on this issue.

 

[Robert]

Huh?

I come across as kind and non-judgemental and people tell me their problems.

Regarding the dossier, it's a bit like the HMS Conqueror log book - could have brought down a government and so may have got chucked in the Thames....

 

[Markhor]

Crikey, Ted Heath was one of the few Tories I liked. Reasons being:

1) He took us into the Common Market.

2) Sacked Enoch Powell from the Shadow Cabinet despite it being the politically unpopular thing to do after his appalling Rivers of Blood speech. He gave refuge to the Ugandan Asians when Idi Amin kicked them out.

3) The economic u-turn when unemployment reached 1 million. He was not of the Thatcherite school of economics that believed unemployment was a price worth paying.

4) Attempted peace in Northern Ireland with the Sunningdale Agreement only to be blocked by Ian Paisley's band of bigots.

However he also introduced internment in Northern Ireland, rising inflation and oversaw the Three Day Week (although productivity actually increased during that period).

This obviously would be the most serious stain on his record. This ought to have come out when he was alive so the CPS could've proceeded with a prosecution and justice could've been served in court.

 

[Robert]

yes just a minor error of judgement involving supporting the same Paedophile group Ted Heath had links with

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edward-heath-fixed-jimmy-savile-6220604

Edward Heath fixed it for Jimmy Savile to receive OBE and attended Paedophile Information Exchange meetings


If you want to guess why there is a 'conspiracy of silence' ask why Tory/Labour/BBC Establishment were all 'batting' on the same side on this issue.

It was a different era - the predecessor of Liberty (the NCCL) considered some aspects of PIE activity to be a freedom of expression issue. They thought that pictures of naked children should not be considered as obscene. Additionally, PIE represented itself as a counselling service for paedophiles. Harman was a lawyer at NCCL for a time.

Baroness Chakrabati issued an apology for the NCCL's links with PIE.

 

[s28]

Here we see it again. Humanise and rationalise white perpetrators/enablers of abuse as though they have no agency and were 'compelled' to act in this way. They have agency. If you are an adult and a professional lawyer you should be able to make your own judgement based on evidence and your own values. Harriet Harman was either lacking in that judgement/values or she was corrupt. Sorry I don't see any middle ground when it comes to kids.

 

[Robert]

Here we see it again. Humanise and rationalise white perpetrators/enablers of abuse as though they have no agency and were 'compelled' to act in this way. They have agency. If you are an adult and a professional lawyer you should be able to make your own judgement based on evidence and your own values. Harriet Harman was either lacking in that judgement/values or she was corrupt. Sorry I don't see any middle ground when it comes to kids.

Look sunbeam, some people very close to my heart suffered horrible long-lasting personality damage due to the actions of some of these creeps. Clear where I stand on this?

 

[James]

Loads more will come out about this as the years go by. Savile himself was quite a powerful figure and had mates in the government and high up in the BBC. It needs a prominent witness to write a no-holds-barred expose and blow the lid off this thing. Only then will children in future generations be protected from these evil men. (Quick note - do we really need to racialise paedophilia - a bit classless!)

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Those who fought for justice for the victims of Asian grooming gangs are strangely quiet on the alleged victims of Ted Heath - <a href="https://twitter.com/mrjamesob?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mrjamesob</a> <a href="https://t.co/TEtpgbNbqR">pic.twitter.com/TEtpgbNbqR</a></p>— LBC (@LBC) <a href="https://twitter.com/LBC/status/915952830212698112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">5 October 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Loads more will come out about this as the years go by. Savile himself was quite a powerful figure and had mates in the government and high up in the BBC. It needs a prominent witness to write a no-holds-barred expose and blow the lid off this thing. Only then will children in future generations be protected from these evil men. (Quick note - do we really need to racialise paedophilia - a bit classless!)

We shouldn't really need to racialise paedophilia, but since it's already being done, we should at least have the decency to make it universally applicable. A Sollihull councillor was sacked last week for tweeting this:

“You’ve clearly not experienced the Pakistani hospitality, having a daughter raped by men who think she’s ‘white trash’.

If that's the view of a Conservative councillor, you can only imagine what the rank and file must think.

 

[s28]

Ex-deputy director of MI6 is named by MP as 'key' figure who 'manipulated' Westminster VIP paedophile ring

John Mann said George Kennedy Young was 'key' to paedophile claims
Labour MP said ex-deputy director of MI6 took part in 'dubious' activities
Mann added Mr Young was a 'manipulator' who controlled groups of people within which there were paedophile rings in the 1970s or 1980s


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inster-VIP-paedophile-ring.html#ixzz4upnjk2qg

 

[James]

We shouldn't really need to racialise paedophilia, but since it's already being done, we should at least have the decency to make it universally applicable. A Sollihull councillor was sacked last week for tweeting this:

“You’ve clearly not experienced the Pakistani hospitality, having a daughter raped by men who think she’s ‘white trash’.

If that's the view of a Conservative councillor, you can only imagine what the rank and file must think.

To be fair, many councillors blag their way to the job and are very much a part of the rank and file. But I take your point.