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Fourth Test between England (669) and India (358 & 425/4) ended in a draw with the hosts leading the five-match series 2-1

LOL no one cares about these meaningless test matches. Pak posters are unnecessarily getting happy and excited.

We Bharatiya's are focused on Asia cup and el classico match

:inti :kp
 
Very ugly looking Indian team send jaiswal & co to the parlour look like beggers. Dravid was the last hunk to come out of there.
 
@Bhaijaan only has a few post left before his retirement. Hence he is posting wisely in forums where 🇮🇳 is supposedly winning

Not sure about Devdas aka @Devadwal
The latter is on my ignore list. Dont really care what happens to him. I don't even know if he is commenting or not, havent checked.

The former is a cool poster though.
 
Cricket is also about confidence and seizing the momentum... Do you think Mc.Grath, Gillespie & Warne were bowling trash against Laxman & Dravid during that innings? It is just hypnotizing the opposition by seizing the momentum... Any game (usually) will have talented players in the both the sides, only combination & confidence can help one team attack/dominate the other side! Bumrah/Siraj would get their tail up if they find such quality 4th seamer (Stokes)... India just has Nitish Reddy, Thakur who may pick odd wickets/breakthroughs here & there, but they are not consistent enough... Forget consistency they cannot even play all the matches due to fitness issues OR sheer lack of skills/confidence!

So I iterate again Stokes is the key for what kind of balance he brings... That confidence rubs on batting or bowling or fielding or catcing or whatever.... Cricket or any game is basically first about confidence/momentum...

Even India can bat long, strong and dominant way as they did in 2nd test match, if things fall in place... Even they have the resources... Even their bowlers can come hard like they did in 2nd test, when there is scoreboard pressure on opposition... (Akashdeep suddenly looked threatening). All that happens only if there is perfect balance & you seize the moment... Pitches/conditions are more or less the same, in fact Lords suited more to Indians than the other 3 venues so far, they lost the toss (can't blame for that) and also they were unable to hold their nerves in key moments (improper balance has played a role here...)

With the kind of confidence growing in England Team & Captain Stokes, I won't be surprized if Stokes hits a century too in one of the remaining innings... That's what confidence can do...

India has two main issues... Lack of balance and also lack of experience (Rahul, Bumrah, Pant, Jadeja & Siraj are the only experienced and seasoned players in the team), and they are playing away (it is OK to be dominant at home with inexperieced side as we can see lesser exprienced guys in England like Brook, Smith, etc are able to perform strongly...)

Going forward India should rethink their strategy in SENA tests... If they don't win this series (most likely) OR even if they can't end it at least 3-2, then they must think of playing 3 proper seamers (at least the 3rd seamer should be an assured seamer even if he is not an alrounder/can't bat) and go with 1 wicket-taking spinner (like Kuldeep or anyone)... Need to get rid of bits & pieces. Nitish Reddy, Thakur, Sundar, etc... Well they don't have confidence in giving ball to Sundar even after he did well in the previous match... That clearly indicates that he is also a bits & peice guy... He should be competing with Jadeja for a place in the side, and not play together! He should raise his game accordingly! A specialist would bowl regardless of his form and match situation. Same logic applies to specialist batsman... Jadeja qualifies as a proper alrounder OR at least batting-alrounder for SENA, but his bowling cannot be effective like Stokes in SENA conditions.

Hence India should play 3 proper seamers + 1 wicket-taking spinner + Jadeja (his bowling should only be bonus OR for giving break to main bowlers), because it is too much to ask for 4 full-fledged seamers, whether they can bat & form a good tail OR not, first of all we don't have that much quality - test quality seam bowlers, but we can definitely find/prepare a wicket-taking spinner! Reason for this is a) India has better chance to produce quality spinner than a quality seamer with the resources we have b) SENA teams are good at handling seamers even if they are of good quality, so we should surprise them / tackle them with a spinner, just like SENA teams usually play 1 seamer more & 1 spinner less when they come to India and try with that combination (that's what comes naturally for them!)

India should stop stacking their team with these bits & piece players, which may look fancy on paper, but it won't give results... Unless we find a proper seam bowling alrounder (at least like Pandya - yes he is good & perfect at least for LOIs, he is gold there. He played a crucial part in that T20 finals to help Bumrah raise his game, just like Stokes is doing with his test team! And I personally think India would have won ODI World Cup if Pandya had not missed that game!) we should stick to 3 seamers & 1 proper spinner & Jadeja/Sundar (let these two guys compete for a single spot. Sundar is not working on his game, he is being lazy, thinking that he can anyhow be in the side because management is hellbent on bits & peice policy! He should be made to work hard on his batting & also learn to bowl in any situation/any condition and be effective... Jadeja is doing that... He picked a wicket in this innings too... So he is better than Sundar at the moment)

Sorry if I posted a long reply... But here I am neither blindly supporting my team NOR I am accusing any opposition (and more importantly didn't bring Pakistan Cricket into this), so hopefully you will appreciate my analysis :) At least our Indian PPers may find this post useful!
while i agree that 4th Seaming all Rounder with ability to bat is good but Stokes was no way Near as good as he has performed in this series .

from 2021-2024 Stokes played 43 Test Matches and took around 55 wickets only

He was nt even all rounder anymore before this series
 
Bumrah can't. This is why I refuse to place him > Wasim let alone Mcgrath.

Playing the 4th test has exposed him. He is bowling harmlessly at 130-137KPH and bowled 13 overs yesterday only. Even if he picks a 5fer today after rest is given you can tell his stamina is weak.

Otherwise Bumrah as a bowler skills wise is > Wasim, = Mcgrath and Below Marshall. But that is only if he is at absolute peak which he hardly ever is unless its the first test.

This is his issue, his stamina is that of a toothpick. Otherwise yes he'd be a terrific captain if he could actually play 2 consecutive tests without the risk of being out in a coma.

I could tell during BGT that he kept and kept declining game by game.

1st game he was killer, 2nd, 3rd and 4th still lethal but not as much. 5th game was only due to the crazy pitch but it was clear he was finished and spent.

Sane case in this series. The ego of playing the 4th game in a decider is costing him.

His skills being > Wasim doesnt mean he is > Wasim as a whole.
Skill wise Bumrah is not better than Wasim.
I am sure you never watched Wasim bowl Live Momin
 
Skill wise Bumrah is not better than Wasim.
I am sure you never watched Wasim bowl Live Momin
I have, was referring to test not odi where lines and lengths are different.

Wasim has more variety, Bumrah in test has better line and length but it lasts a total of 1 test before Mr huff a puff needs his meds and a back massage.
 
Pathehtic from Bumrah, does this guy smoke cigarettes all day? This fitness levels is embarrassing
 
Good to see Wasim Akram in attendance for this Test. I've never seen him attending a Test in Pakistan.

Then again , he cared far more for Lancashire cricket than he did for Pakistan

So it's understandable
 
Skill wise Bumrah is not better than Wasim.
I am sure you never watched Wasim bowl Live Momin
I saw Wasim & Waqar bowling live before the days play in the nets on day 5 of Karachi test in 1994. This is the same game where Pakistan chased 300+ on that day. Interestingly both were bowling with very short run up but boy they had some zip.
 
I saw Wasim & Waqar bowling live in the nets on day 5 of Karachi test in 1994. This is the same game where Pakistan chased 300+ on that day. Interestingly both were bowling with very short run up but boy they had some zip.
In terms of variety and swing no one cam beat Wasim. Literally no one. He is the king of swing and is one of the few bowlers who gives a shut up call to all does who claim seam > Swing.
 
No indian posters today, beautiful :vk2
images
 
The fact remains that in the 2nd test india bowled better without Bumrah then with him included.

The better bowling unit excuse doesn't exactly fly. Its not like mcgrath had wonders either.

India ace batter averaged 70 vs Aus when mchrath didn't play and owned aus yet with mchrath included he avg 36 overall and 26 directly vs mcgrath. And india was basically mchrath's bunny at the time excluding 2001.

He has zero stamina, his venom fades after 1 or 2 games. Him being captain would entail he would either have to play all games or rest himself in which case you'd need a captain for 2 tests anyway.

Its why india opted for someone who can just captain all 5 matched instead
They won one match without him, not sure if it happens like this always! Opposition (England) also made mistake by bowling first PLUS India batted properly in the 1st innings (near to 600)... Any bowling unit can do well if there is scoreboard pressure, and opposition will feel the heat! (England also won 1 test match in India, when they followed this template). This young inexperienced Indian Team (with such a rookie captain) may not be able to replicate this performance again and again against top teams (especially away from home). Opposition will find out the loopholes and get prepared...

You can't tell that Indian bowling will do well without Bumrah based on that, they may do worse! I will agree only if they repeat an effort as in that 1st Perth Test Match, where Bumrah led from the front, came back strong after getting bowled out for 150, and restrict them to even below score, and boosted the confidence of batsmen in the 2nd innings... It was the batsmen who gained confidence from the bowlers in that match, not the other way round! Let Indian bowlers repeat that performance without Bumrah, good luck to them! (unless they are not playing in India/UAE and/or the opposition is not WI/Sri/Ban). Also we should keep in mind that we won after hopeless performance against NZ at home! Rohit joined the team back and ruined everything...

Yes I agree Bumrah is not totally like Mc.Grath/Ambrose/Steyn... He has fitness issues for his kind of bowling action... Also Mc.Grath & co did not deal with round the calendar year cricket & IPL contracts... They all could concentrate properly on their game (particularly tests). That's why Bumrah is called the modern ATG (serving the demands of modern cricket). And the presence of IPL & commercial cricket (including international cricket, yes international cricket is also too much now! 3 formats now! The line/length adjustment is too much) provides different kind of challenges... And he is handling that better than any other contemporary bowlers... That's why he is compared to yesteryear greats... Its not literal comparison OR equation... Bumrah may not have bettered those bowlers had he played in that era OR those greats wouldn't have handled the "commercial" challenges of today. That is where the mutual greatness lies...

Besides there is extreme media pressure today - including social media, there is severe scrutiny today, DRS, no home umpires - not sure how it would have affected them! Probably Bumrah developed this kind of bowling action & deception to become unique / to fetch success quickly (and to shine among the rest), he would have had a conventional bowling action if he played in that era OR wouldn't even have chosen to play cricket! Nobody knows!

But it is true that he is regarded as modern ATG, best bowler in the world by most people... And there's a genuine reason behind that... In fact the criticism & attention he gets for missing matches & failing to pick wickets in some innings, is also for the same reason (him being the best bowler in the world is required to perform in every match).

Yes, I know India should stick to a younger player (preferably batsman) to be a long term captain... But I personally wanted Bumrah to be the captain (based on that match/series) just like Cummins achieved for Australia... Somehow I feel Bumrah would have handled the captaincy well and he would have also not missed many matches (utlized himself in a better way!). Just my thought!

You may have a difference of opinion, but I hope you understand what I feel...
 
They won one match without him, not sure if it happens like this always! Opposition (England) also made mistake by bowling first PLUS India batted properly in the 1st innings (near to 600)... Any bowling unit can do well if there is scoreboard pressure, and opposition will feel the heat! (England also won 1 test match in India, when they followed this template). This young inexperienced Indian Team (with such a rookie captain) may not be able to replicate this performance again and again against top teams (especially away from home). Opposition will find out the loopholes and get prepared...

You can't tell that Indian bowling will do well without Bumrah based on that, they may do worse! I will agree only if they repeat an effort as in that 1st Perth Test Match, where Bumrah led from the front, came back strong after getting bowled out for 150, and restrict them to even below score, and boosted the confidence of batsmen in the 2nd innings... It was the batsmen who gained confidence from the bowlers in that match, not the other way round! Let Indian bowlers repeat that performance without Bumrah, good luck to them! (unless they are not playing in India/UAE and/or the opposition is not WI/Sri/Ban). Also we should keep in mind that we won after hopeless performance against NZ at home! Rohit joined the team back and ruined everything...

Yes I agree Bumrah is not totally like Mc.Grath/Ambrose/Steyn... He has fitness issues for his kind of bowling action... Also Mc.Grath & co did not deal with round the calendar year cricket & IPL contracts... They all could concentrate properly on their game (particularly tests). That's why Bumrah is called the modern ATG (serving the demands of modern cricket). And the presence of IPL & commercial cricket (including international cricket, yes international cricket is also too much now! 3 formats now! The line/length adjustment is too much) provides different kind of challenges... And he is handling that better than any other contemporary bowlers... That's why he is compared to yesteryear greats... Its not literal comparison OR equation... Bumrah may not have bettered those bowlers had he played in that era OR those greats wouldn't have handled the "commercial" challenges of today. That is where the mutual greatness lies...

Besides there is extreme media pressure today - including social media, there is severe scrutiny today, DRS, no home umpires - not sure how it would have affected them! Probably Bumrah developed this kind of bowling action & deception to become unique / to fetch success quickly (and to shine among the rest), he would have had a conventional bowling action if he played in that era OR wouldn't even have chosen to play cricket! Nobody knows!

But it is true that he is regarded as modern ATG, best bowler in the world by most people... And there's a genuine reason behind that... In fact the criticism & attention he gets for missing matches & failing to pick wickets in some innings, is also for the same reason (him being the best bowler in the world is required to perform in every match).

Yes, I know India should stick to a younger player (preferably batsman) to be a long term captain... But I personally wanted Bumrah to be the captain (based on that match/series) just like Cummins achieved for Australia... Somehow I feel Bumrah would have handled the captaincy well and he would have also not missed many matches (utlized himself in a better way!). Just my thought!

You may have a difference of opinion, but I hope you understand what I feel...
You may have a difference of opinion, but I hope you understand what I feel...

I understand. No worries.
 
Root surpasses Dravid and Kallis in test runs

Massive achievement boys


Now time to get rid of the tenda at top

I hope Root makes a double ton here , he deserves a big one just to make things more special .


England should look to bat only once here . Bat until after lunch day 4 with 700 on the board and bowl out India on day 5
 
In terms of variety and swing no one cam beat Wasim. Literally no one. He is the king of swing and is one of the few bowlers who gives a shut up call to all does who claim seam > Swing.
Wasim bowled the most accurate and menacing bouncer that I've ever seen.
He was very deceptive swung the ball very late and both ways with hardly any change in action.
 
I hope Root makes a double ton here , he deserves a big one just to make things more special .


England should look to bat only once here . Bat until after lunch day 4 with 700 on the board and bowl out India on day 5
Agreed. India is finished in fitness anyway.

Mentally they are done for this series.
 
while i agree that 4th Seaming all Rounder with ability to bat is good but Stokes was no way Near as good as he has performed in this series .

from 2021-2024 Stokes played 43 Test Matches and took around 55 wickets only

He was nt even all rounder anymore before this series
But that (Stokes) has been the deciding factor in this series (somehow). You may argue it is England's batting/bazball OR fielding OR other bowlers who are doing well, but it is Stokes and the balance which made the difference between the 2 sides... If not for Stokes I think this series would have been won by India (a kind of upset), or at least they could be levelling... Without doubt India lost the previous match because of Stokes (and also he is the reason for below par score in the 1st innings of this test match). He has been such a factor. It is lucky that England got back an in-form Stokes (possibly could have got helped by inexperienced Indian Team and Rookie Captain who indulged in sledging in a blind way!)
 
Wasim bowled the most accurate and menacing bouncer that I've ever seen.
He was very deceptive swung the ball very late and both ways with hardly any change in action.
Tbh bro, I have seen wasim in odi where I agree he is heads and shoulders > Bumrah and ive stated it time and again.

You are right, I havent seen him much in test cricket beyond scorecards so will concede this one to you.
 
In terms of variety and swing no one cam beat Wasim. Literally no one. He is the king of swing and is one of the few bowlers who gives a shut up call to all does who claim seam > Swing.
You won't get that kind of swing in the modern era.

And even in his era, the 2 best Test bowlers were seam bowlers in McGrath and Ambrose.

So no, it's not a shut up call at all.

Swing bowlers will always be inferior to accurate seam/wobble seamers .
 
Lmao cricinfo posted a question will root sirpass Sachin Tendulkar in runs. Out of 829 votes, 800 said yes and cricinfo removed the poll :vk2
 
You won't get that kind of swing in the modern era.

And even in his era, the 2 best Test bowlers were seam bowlers in McGrath and Ambrose.

So no, it's not a shut up call at all.

Swing bowlers will always be inferior to accurate seam/wobble seamers .
Hard disagree. Mcgrath was deadly accurate and is god, their is no comparison to him.

You won't get that kind of swing in the modern era.

Just a skill issue bro.
 
But that (Stokes) has been the deciding factor in this series (somehow). You may argue it is England's batting/bazball OR fielding OR other bowlers who are doing well, but it is Stokes and the balance which made the difference between the 2 sides... If not for Stokes I think this series would have been won by India (a kind of upset), or at least they could be levelling... Without doubt India lost the previous match because of Stokes (and also he is the reason for below par score in the 1st innings of this test match). He has been such a factor. It is lucky that England got back an in-form Stokes (possibly could have got helped by inexperienced Indian Team and Rookie Captain who indulged in sledging in a blind way!)
Stokes Stepped up. Despite having serious fitness issues he chose to take on added responsibility. This Eng Bowling attack is worst India has faced in last decade. Archer made a comeback after 4 years , and Woakes ( Washed up ) is their front line bowler lol
 
Hard disagree. Mcgrath was deadly accurate and is god, their is no comparison to him.

You won't get that kind of swing in the modern era.

Just a skill issue bro.
@Nikhil_cric also you are right, when I troll you, it means you are correct. No need to reply lol. Like I said, dont wish to talk about something which I have limited knowledge on.
 
Hard disagree. Mcgrath was deadly accurate and is god, their is no comparison to him.

You won't get that kind of swing in the modern era.

Just a skill issue bro.
Not at all. I won't go into specifics but you can't reverse the ball like that anymore.

And anyway , like I said, even in his era there were 2 contemporaries who were better.

Ambrose too was a better Test bowler and he was all wobble seam .
 
Not at all. I won't go into specifics but you can't reverse the ball like that anymore.

And anyway , like I said, even in his era there were 2 contemporaries who were better.

Ambrose too was a better Test bowler and he was all wobble seam .
@Nikhil_cric also you are right, when I troll you, it means you are correct. No need to reply lol. Like I said, dont wish to talk about something which I have limited knowledge on.
Uncle? 🥸
 
Not at all. I won't go into specifics but you can't reverse the ball like that anymore.

And anyway , like I said, even in his era there were 2 contemporaries who were better.

Ambrose too was a better Test bowler and he was all wobble seam .
I retract what I said, as Im aware one ball era is different and that Ambrose was better. Am not going to argue for the sake of arguing anymore.
 
Bro He was well Rested before CWC 2023. He started playing around Sep in Asia Cup
That shows his fitness bro.
My point still stands (he is very fragile) he has a body for t10 format where he can play 12 13 matches continuously. Let me tell you after 2 3 seasons of ipl he will start skipping matches there also.
 
That shows his fitness bro.
My point still stands (he is very fragile) he has a body for t10 format where he can play 12 13 matches continuously. Let me tell you after 2 3 seasons of ipl he will start skipping matches there also.
he has fitness issues because of awkward bowling action. Thats why he wont play 100 Tests.. Probably 75 before all Gas is gone from Cylinder
 
serious fitness issues.. He has terrible action that puts extra strain on his back and he needs to bend his back an extra mile on top of that to be effective
The reason why I love England even ore then Australia at times is because these guys expose myths.

In pakistan, they busted the babar bubble, and now they are busting the Bumrah bubble.

People will seriously question Bumrah being no 1 if he cant even play a 5 match test series without getting flatlined like a pancake.

Australia was happy to win 1 test vs pk and draw the other 2 for stat padding.

England tonked 800+. After the 2nd test they also busted the myth of nightmare pitches. Indian media was claiming their afraid of bumrah on spicy pitch and then they mentally defeated india in the 3rd test.

Goat team. Always busts myths out in the field
 
i think its more to do with US hyping up players. Then we run into professional sides like AUS and ENG who dnt buy that hype
Australia typically doesnt care thats the thing.

Their happy with winning and thats it. England on the other hand busts myths and takes it personally.

Not just Mamoon but even the media were claiming Stokes is a waste of space aka a mediocre batter who no longer bowls. And then Stokes took a 5 fer.

These boys clearly pay attention to the media and shut people up.

Now they are bazzballing again and outright giving the whole mantra off india ended bazzball a reality check.
 
@Wasim Ghulam

Indians

1) We ended Bazzball, England: Hold my beer in the 4th test.

2) They are too afraid to face us on spicy wickets: England 3rd test: Lololololol.

3) Stokes is finished as a bowler crap player: Stokes 5 fer galore

4) Bumrah is a goat and root is afraid of him: Root: Yeah imma just aocrw a century and bash him for 50 runs again.

5) Gill will destroy Bradman's record: England: Hahaahahahahaha

6) Jadeja is the goat: England, watch us end this spinners career :vk2
 
@Wasim Ghulam

Indians

1) We ended Bazzball, England: Hold my beer in the 4th test.

2) They are too afraid to face us on spicy wickets: England 3rd test: Lololololol.

3) Stokes is finished as a bowler crap player: Stokes 5 fer galore

4) Bumrah is a goat and root is afraid of him: Root: Yeah imma just aocrw a century and bash him for 50 runs again.

5) Gill will destroy Bradman's record: England: Hahaahahahahaha

6) Jadeja is the goat: England, watch us end this spinners career :vk2
after all that
Indians : Our Side is rookie. We are in Transition 😂
 
after all that
Indians : Our Side is rookie. We are in Transition 😂
Bhai I have screenshot from BGT claiming that the team would become no 1 when kohli and rohit retires.

Now that they retired they are suddenly in transition?

What even changed for them to be on transition? Same openers, same batters same bowlers?

Just karun nair and Sai are new additions? Seriously what changed? Oh Ashwin got replaced by Washington who has the exact same action :vk2
 
The bounce is uneven, if you bowl fast on a off stump line eventually wickets will come. Poor discipline by India
 
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