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ICC T20 World Cup 2022 | Pakistan v England | Final | MCG | 13 Nov | Pre-match Discussion

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Pakistan can chase down the target against England given that wood is unlikely to feature. English bowling is bang average.
 
It may be noted that 10 overs per side are required to constitute a match in the knockout stage and every effort will be taken to complete the match on the scheduled match day, with any necessary reduction of overs taking place. Only if the minimum number of overs necessary to constitute a match cannot be bowled on Sunday will the match go into the reserve day. Play on the reserve day will begin at 15h00 and would be a continuation of play from the scheduled match day.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan can chase down the target against England given that wood is unlikely to feature. English bowling is bang average.
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Actually they are quite skilled in T20, Curran and Jordon often produce ecnomical spells and are good death over bowlers. Woakes is also respectable bowler, and Adil a good leggie but Pakistan often do good against him. They also have support of Moeen and Livingston. In either case The.match is between Pakistan bowling vs England batting to decide who wins.
 
Jordan being underrated. England can chase like Australia last year. Pakistan have to scrimp a score and hope bowlers perform
 
^^ As I said in the match thread, if Khushdil can give Jordan a phainty of a lifetime in PSL whilst chasing, then we just have to be smart about it.

Anyway, my suggestion to Shan Masood if he’s still willing to play a shortened game is to ask his new sponsor Gray Nichols for a mongoose bat ASAP and pay extra for 1-day delivery so Matty Hayden can teach him how to use it.

Kapil used those bats to hit 175 in ‘83 WC final and Hayden used it to hit the snot out of bowling in the IPL, so it’s certified. Sometimes when you lack the natural skills, you have to invest in external aids and tools.
 
highly likely Match will happen on Monday 3PM AEST due to heavy showers predicted in Melbourne on Sunday..

3PM should suit Pakistan too
 
Pakistan won't change the winning XI™.

If Shaheen Afridi somehow manages to bowl one of his typical spell then this World Cup is ours! Insha'Allah!

May the best team win!
 
Would hope that Pak win the toss and bat first. Still far more comfortable in defending a total then chasing one. I am looking for around 180 to put England under pressure.
 
Pakistan & England dragged 14 countries to Australia just so that they can play the 8th match of their T20I series at the MCG
 
PakLFC said:
Would hope that Pak win the toss and bat first. Still far more comfortable in defending a total then chasing one. I am looking for around 180 to put England under pressure.
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and what if Hales and Buttler go on to do the same thing they did two days ago against India?

Not worth the risk, chasing is the safe bet for us.
 
If win the toss, then do what, is the big question at this point.

In general scheme of things if we look at the historical records then teams batting second have a very slight edge of winning ratio over the teams batting first.
So yes, I would like to bowl first - Matter of fact, many experts are saying that both teams would want to bowl first if they win the toss.


However, the weather seems be playing that role of throwing a monkey wrench in the equation.

If this stupid D/L method comes into play then no team wants to bat second - there is a clear disadvantage to the team batting second.

So pakistan must watch the weather forecast under a microscope and figure out when does the foul arrive during the course of play?

Also, if it’s a reduced overs game then keep Shan Masood 10 miles away from the playing 11


Good thing is, Hayden and Tait are there - and they would know better as what to do if we win the toss?
 
LegendAli said:
and what if Hales and Buttler go on to do the same thing they did two days ago against India?

Not worth the risk, chasing is the safe bet for us.
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There is always a chance of the Eng openers repeating what they did versus India nonetheless I still hope Pak bat first. The decision could be taken out of our hands if Eng win the toss. Batting second will put Eng under much more pressure if we get a good score. Firstly our bowling is much better then India's and they'll be chasing to win the tourny. Traditionally Pak is better at defending then chasing a total.
 
NASSER HUSSAIN: England would be wise to fear Pakistan's bowling attack ahead of Sunday's World Cup final... but I'm backing Jos Buttler's batters!

==

Pakistan are simply mercurial. They can lose their first two games of this Twenty20 World Cup and be on the verge of going out but then they can win every game since and were handed a huge favour when the Netherlands defeated South Africa.

That sums Pakistan up and has been their story over the years. They are so talented and can put in world-class performances but they can also implode and crash out.

It is remarkable they are in the final against England. Everyone is comparing their progress to Imran Khan’s cornered tigers of 1992 and there are definite similarities.

Babar Azam has been criticised in the Pakistan media and by ex-players, just as Imran was all those years ago, and Babar had a little go back at them when they won their semi-final against New Zealand.

There is no question Pakistan’s strength lies in their bowling. They have had probably the best bowling attack in the competition, even in that agonising defeat by India right at the very start when only their last eight balls really let them down.

Their best bowler in Shaheen Shah Afridi did not play in the T20 series against England through injury and looked as if he might have come back too soon in this tournament. But he is getting stronger with every game and will pose a real threat tomorrow.

Opening batters Jos Buttler and Alex Hales knocked a stunning 170 partnership to seal the win

If the MCG pitch is the same one we saw earlier in the tournament, conditions could be a bit spicy for Shaheen and company, particularly with the rain around in Melbourne.

Pakistan did make a mistake against India by misreading the conditions and playing an extra batter and spinner when actually they should have played Mohammad Wasim.

That was a surprise, with Australians such as Matthew Hayden and Shaun Tait who know the conditions here so well in their backroom staff, but it is one they have corrected since.

Pakistan are a little similar to India in that their opening batters in Babar and Mohammad Rizwan still play slightly old-fashioned white-ball cricket, even though they did tee off against New Zealand.

Fact is, they have to be a little careful at the start because they do not have the batting depth of England. Their middle order has been fragile at times and they can be conservative up front because 20 overs can be a long time for them.

But they know if they do get a par score, their bowling attack can win the game for them. Or if they bowl first and keep the opposition score down, their methods and their batting tempo can work.

Babar and Rizwan had quiet tournaments before the semi-final — the captain had scored only 39 runs in the World Cup before making a half century against New Zealand — but they both showed their class when it most mattered.

Shaheen Shah Afridi remains one of the most dangerous limited overs bowlers in world cricket

Pakistan have found a little gem here in the form of 21-year-old Mohammad Haris. Once Fakhar Zaman was injured and out of the squad, they needed someone a bit more explosive after the openers and Haris has been just that man in the last couple of games.

He has that fearless arrogance of youth and has given them another attacking option to complement the likes of Shan Masood, who is more orthodox.

One thing that has been notable about Pakistan here is the quality of their fielding — and they out-fielded New Zealand, which is not something you associate with them.

I will be surprised if the MCG is full on Sunday but there will be a sea of green, as we saw at the SCG in the semi-final, and England will have to deal with the opposition having the majority of support, as they did so superbly against India in Adelaide on Thursday.

So, Pakistan will be a big threat but, as I said after the semi-final, if England play as they did against India they can beat any side.

They played the perfect game on Thursday and Pakistan will know they cannot be below par in any way.

This is a battle of the strongest attack in the tournament, in Pakistan, against the best batting line-up, in England. I fancy Jos Buttler and his side to avenge that 1992 50-over final defeat on this same ground. But once they get that cornered tigers mentality, you would be a fool to write off Pakistan.

PAKISTAN: PLAYERS TO WATCH

Shaheen Shah Afridi

The left-arm paceman is getting early wickets again with the new ball, which he can swing.

The MCG has offered movement in this World Cup and there should be bounce, too.

Shaheen is nearly fully fit now and his speeds are up, but whether he will be ready to play in the Test series against England next month remains to be seen.

Babar and Rizwan

I can’t separate Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan because they come as a pair.

They are hugely consistent and if they don’t fire Pakistan’s batting looks weak.

But if they get their side off to a good start, as they did in the semi-final against New Zealand in Sydney, then everything else falls into place. Both batsmen have to push a little harder against England.


Shadab Khan

I like Shadab as a cricketer. He is three-dimensional and bowled his leg-spin beautifully in the group game at the SCG against South Africa.

He’s excellent in the field and pulled off the crucial run-out of Devon Conway in the semi-final. And he gives the ball a good belt when he comes in. It strikes me that he likes the big occasion. A cool, calculated, calm character.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...-bowlers-Im-backing-Jos-Buttlers-batters.html
 
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http://www.bom.gov.au/vic/forecasts/melbourne.shtml
 
This is good and much more friendly these pictures shared above, i can recall i think the night before 92 world cup final dinner, Gooch & Stewart stormed out of dinner as they did not like some jokes on English by the Aussies.
That incident played part the next day as Gooch looked tense at toss.
 
Looked at a few weather sites and the weather in Melbourne for tomorrow & Monday appears to be even worse than before. Unless something drastic happens on the weather front I don't see how they can get conditions dry enough for play even with modern drainage systems.
 
For 35-40 overs across 2 days
You need 90 minutes of cricket each day, still 1 full day is left so we need to wait what can be done. Monday is marginally better.
 
We need to start with the same 11. It would be foolish to even think about changing the winning combination.
 
The icc is sooooo stupid!!

Your showpiece final is going to be rained off and the weather forecast has been available for almost a week.

It was much, much better to have shifted it to another venue rather than having nothing.

You're going to refund the fans anyway because of the rain.

What a shambles.
 
Will we even get 20 overs across the two days? highly unlikely there is much play on Sunday. The 3pm start on Monday is useless to, as it stops raining late in the evening
 
James said:
It may be noted that 10 overs per side are required to constitute a match in the knockout stage and every effort will be taken to complete the match on the scheduled match day, with any necessary reduction of overs taking place. Only if the minimum number of overs necessary to constitute a match cannot be bowled on Sunday will the match go into the reserve day. Play on the reserve day will begin at 15h00 and would be a continuation of play from the scheduled match day.
Click to expand...

Hope we wont have to use this provision too much - stop and start wont be nice.
 
Barragan said:
The icc is sooooo stupid!!

Your showpiece final is going to be rained off and the weather forecast has been available for almost a week.

It was much, much better to have shifted it to another venue rather than having nothing.

You're going to refund the fans anyway because of the rain.

What a shambles.
Click to expand...

The broadcasters have applied pressure to stick to the schedule
 
So midnight Sunday GMT?. Damn probably 4am Monday. I'll be watching!

Imagine waking up to a result. Eek
 
I am in Melbourne at the moment. Weather looks promising. Yes, we will have a shower or two, but a Match is on the cards. Passing showers aren't a serious threat.
 
As I said even ahead of India´s Semi-Final, the Final too is a simply no-contest on papers. I don´t see this Pakistan batting line-up being capable enough to set an England-proof total and neither do I see it being capable enough to chase whatever score that England might throw at them. The problem for Pakistan is that, the moment they´re set a target of over 165-170, it right away means for the opposition that it´s a Babar-Rizwan-proof - in high pressure games anyway. What it means is that, if one or both of them happen to get going in the run-chase, they´re sure to require help from at least one of the middle or lower-order hitters. This is precisely where Mohammad Haris has been a great addition to this team. I´m so looking forward to seeing more of this guy tomorrow in the Final or even in the future.

Having said whatever that I´ve of the huge difference between these two teams, one must bear in mind that it´s just a 120-ball format at the end of the day, and one good or bad over can turn the game completely on its head. The advantage that lies with Pakistan is that of it´s seriously good bowling attack which is perfectly capable of containing this England batting line-up. I would pin-point Shaheen and Rauf as the key. One of them has to have a dream spell of four overs, or both of them combined in their eight overs will have to cause much of the damage to England. On the contrary, if they happen to have a bad day, it´s game over for Pakistan.

Here´s an interesting stat: of the seven T20 World Cup Finals so far, the team batting first has only won two of those - the last of which came as long as a decade and a month and a week ago! So, there lies a clear advantage with the team batting second, but the problem for Pakistan is that this is one aspect of the game at which they´re pretty weak - and have always been so, historically.
 
Pakistan have faced England in a T20 World Cup match only twice were overcome on both occasions, in 2009 and 2010, respectively. The sample size is too small, of course, to deduce anything from this, but an interesting fact is that one of these matches came in the edition which Pakistan ended up winning altogether and the other in the edition which England won - both of these having been held within a space of nine months or so, I think.
 
How amazing is it that both the teams which have made it to the Final were both on the receiving end of an upset in their respective groups and about both it seemed at one stage that they might not make it to the Semi-Finals altogether? I would´ve to say it again and again, this is the beauty of T20 cricket. In any other format of the game, you would´ve never seen such shocking results and then such a turn of events. There´s a reason why I´ve been saying this again and again, it´s only the T20 format of the game which gives football a challenge in terms of thrill, entertainment, excitement, and nail-biting matches. Long may the format continue with all its fun and enjoyment!
 
MenInG said:
Fan Zone pictures

View attachment 117811View attachment 117812View attachment 117813View attachment 117814View attachment 117815
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Good to see the camaraderie but all this will disappear once the toss happens - Game face on!

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/g72jev" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
The only tactical thing that can make a mockery of the final is if they play a 10 overs rain shortened game on Sunday, but then can't finish and therefore it continues as a 20 over game on Monday. What if the batting team loses 5+ wickets going for fast runs?
 
Energy said:
The only tactical thing that can make a mockery of the final is if they play a 10 overs rain shortened game on Sunday, but then can't finish and therefore it continues as a 20 over game on Monday. What if the batting team loses 5+ wickets going for fast runs?
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"Whether a match has resumed in the revised conditions is the key in determining how the game would continue on Monday at the scheduled start time of 3pm".

"If a ball has been bowled under the shortened overs it would resume with the same number of overs if no further play is lost. If not, it would continue at the original 20 overs per side, weather permitting".

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...uins-mcg-world-cup-final-20221110-p5bx7z.html
 
It seems to have started raining here heavily ? Any local or someone else with any information input ?
 
Fun fact 6/8 T20 World Cup Final winners have bowled first since its inclusion. So bowling 1st is the way to go, especially with rain on the cards.
 
Extra bounce of Wood at Melbourne can result lucky runs behind the wicket. Luck has a big role to play in PP sometimes in t20 - especially when there is an extra bounce and you can only watch the ball flying over 30 yard circle.
 
IA the lads play intelligently but positively. I score of 150 in the weather conditions will be more than competitive. If we bat 2nd it will suit us but again we can chase 160-170 against a fairly good but not the best attack from England. England should win but PK should also be confident
 
England has the edge in terms of experience and batting firepower. Also recent record. England won 4-3 in Pakistan.

Pakistan has yet to beat England in T20 World Cups. Played 2, lost 2

Overall also England has an edge

28 matches. England won 17, Pak 9, 1 tied, 1 no result.

Also if Wood is fit for the final, England will be an even better side. He has serious pace, bowls at 150 kph plus and would test our batting esp middle order.

It goes without saying but Pakistan will need to have a good power play with both bat and ball
 
The big contrast between Asian and most western teams is that the latter have an abundance of power hitters. Sri Lanka struggled because of lack of power hitters in their side. India has two: Overhyped SKY (what did he do against Pakistan and South Africa?) and always dependable Hardik

Pakistan: Haris only. Fakhar is injured.
England: Buttler, Hales, Livingstone, Harry Brook and Salt

Australia did not qualify because of NRR but their batting is better than ours. Had they opened with Cameron Green and Warner they might not have been in this position. Hindsight is 50/50 but not playing Starc v Afghanistan was a blunder that cost them the NRR

Then they have Mitchell Marsh, Stoinis, Maxwell and Wade who can all take the long handle.
 
That is not to say Pakistan cannot beat England. Our bowling is better than England’s; better pacers and spinners, more variation. On our day we can beat any side.

And it goes without saying that we will need to have a good power play with both bat and ball. If we bat first must score 180+/-. Will need to get Buttler and Hales out early, at least one of them in pp.
 
bones said:
Looked at a few weather sites and the weather in Melbourne for tomorrow & Monday appears to be even worse than before. Unless something drastic happens on the weather front I don't see how they can get conditions dry enough for play even with modern drainage systems.
Click to expand...

There will be no match on both Sunday and Monday. All this buildup to the final will prove to be a nothing burger.

A horrible marketing for cricket.
 
chinaman00 said:
There will be no match on both Sunday and Monday. All this buildup to the final will prove to be a nothing burger.

A horrible marketing for cricket.
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Precisely. What options do the ICC and MCG have? I suppose they could have pushed the venue down the road to that indoor stadium and give refunds to those who can't fit in.
 
shaz619 said:
The broadcasters have applied pressure to stick to the schedule
Click to expand...

Broadcasters should only care if the television feed works. The match could have been shifted to Sydney, where the TV equipment from the semi final could have been re-used.
 
Such a disappointing end to the world cup and such an anti climax after the excitement of getting to the final.

In future I hope ICC will avoid holding events in peak rainy season and may be prudent to have a back up venue for finals
 
bones said:
Precisely. What options do the ICC and MCG have? I suppose they could have pushed the venue down the road to that indoor stadium and give refunds to those who can't fit in.
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Exactly. No excuse not to use the Docklands stadium. It’s next door and it’s regularly used for BBL games.
 
bones said:
Precisely. What options do the ICC and MCG have? I suppose they could have pushed the venue down the road to that indoor stadium and give refunds to those who can't fit in.
Click to expand...

I know sounds silly but how about having a reserve venue together with a reserve day?

If they had Sydney or Perth as a reserve venue, we would probably have a full game.

Obviously there are challenges with it, fans travelling to Sydney or Perth, and then a chaos due to more tickets being sold than the number of seats available in the reserve stadium etc.

Logistics should’ve been a smaller issue if pre planning had already been done. And they had the resources on the stand by.

However, the broadcasting revenue would still be huge enough to make it a profitable event.

Those who have had purchased tickets and couldn’t travel to the reserve venue, would rather be happy to watch the final on TV rather than having no game at all.
 
<iframe width="944" height="531" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O3b6f7JUDR4" title="'We have just 3 and a half hours to give 100%' 😤 | Shadab Khan speaks ahead of T20 World Cup final" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I'll take the WC think 100% of Pakistan fans at the start would have taken becoming champions.
 
PakLFC said:
Would hope that Pak win the toss and bat first. Still far more comfortable in defending a total then chasing one. I am looking for around 180 to put England under pressure.
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Chasing is better we can put England under pressure pressure in the first 6 overs if thiers movement
 
Speaking of broadcasters, Willow Cricket has to be the absolute worst broadcaster in the history of broadcasters. The india sucking displayed by it is downright horrendous.

I’ve been trying to catch South Africa v Pak highlights for 2 weeks now as I couldn’t watch the full game, and these idiots have been showing reruns of Zimbabwe v India group stage game every 3 hours. Even right now.

Even Indians don’t want to see that ********. And then people ask why everyone hates BCCI and Indian influence on cricket. It’s tiny things like this stacking up.
 
Guys, what is the weather situation? I'll have to get up at 3am to watch.
 
Pakistan´s best chance would be a full 40-over game. Anything shorter than that is bound to favour the team with more power-hitters. Also, if rain prior to the match means a damp pitch, being under covers hours leading into the game, then the Pakistan batsmen will have some serious work to do, even if they bat second.
 
Suleiman said:
Speaking of broadcasters, Willow Cricket has to be the absolute worst broadcaster in the history of broadcasters. The india sucking displayed by it is downright horrendous.

I’ve been trying to catch South Africa v Pak highlights for 2 weeks now as I couldn’t watch the full game, and these idiots have been showing reruns of Zimbabwe v India group stage game every 3 hours. Even right now.

Even Indians don’t want to see that ********. And then people ask why everyone hates BCCI and Indian influence on cricket. It’s tiny things like this stacking up.
Click to expand...

You could have watched on ESPN+. It’s a much better quality and analysis.
 
Bright morning at Melbourne after overnight rain... Hope it keeps that way !
 
On paper, England looks stronger. But considering the ground size and weather, I think Pakistani bowlers will blow the English batting away to lift the trophy.
 
Weather looks good now Alhamdullilah, percentage of rain has gone down to 50% or below hourly as well.
 
How important is the toss today? What's Baba's record if I recall correctly he's won what likw one toss? The Zimbabwe game?
 
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