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ICC World Cup 2023: India v Pakistan | Match 12 | Ahmedabad | 14 October | Pre-Match Discussion

Which team will win the highly anticipated match between Pakistan and India?

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Everyone talks about India's batting. Ok also their bowling. And fielding.

But, I say we have some gun batting now.

Babar failing is no big deal now. Fakhar failing is no big deal - he's even dropped. Imam, ranked in top 5 before the tournament, failing is no big deal now.

I say we're doing pretty well.

We have managed to get some decent middle order together and top order.

Our only issue is bowling at the moment. Anyway I'd say Saturday is going to be awesome.
 
Looking at the current teams in this format, India trump Pakistan in every conceivable technical and tactical department for me. Coupled with the expected massive and hostile Ahmedabad crowd, I expect a resounding Indian win on Saturday. Having said that, if the two sides meet in the KO stages, I believe that match would probably be more competitive.
 
Devadwal said:
2011 world Cup match was iconic .No match can replace expect world cup final
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As a PCT fan, I don’t think there will ever be another match as heartbreaking as that one for me. For me nothing else comes close to that match in terms of heartbreak. 2021 WT20 Semi Final would be a distant second. I suppose that, if I were older, the ‘99 World Cup Final would probably trump Mohali 2011?
 
Imam Ul Haq
Abdullah Shafique
Babar Azam
Mohammad Rizwan
Saud Shakeel
Fakhar Zaman
Iftikhar Ahmed
Usama Mir
Hasan Ali
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Haris Rauf

Why not play Iftikhar as the 5th bowler? He has more control than Shadab and Nawaz.
 
Probably the wrong thread for this (?) but getting two wins on the board when our biggest players (Shaheen, Babar and Shadab) have been poor thus far should be taken as a positive. If their poor form continues, chalo, it’s whatever. I’d classify this current team as a mid-table team wrt this tournament, so if we don’t quality for the KO stages, my expectations wouldn’t be unfulfilled or anything like that. However, if they do turn up, we should have a solid chance of reaching the KO’s, in which case, we’d only require the run of the green twice. Unlikely, but one can hope.
 
Winning or losing this match won't decide the fate of the World Cup for both teams.
India will dominate most teams and any loss would be an upset especially in the group stages.
For Pakistan, they have to win against Bangladesh and Afghanistan at any cost and target South Africa and Australia. Pakistani bowling really needs to step up because not even a single bowler looks threatening overall.
I expect Babar and Imam might fail under the circumstances and if Rizwan gets out early as well we will get a drubbing.
 
Fakhar, Imam, Babar - all have been just awful. Yet Pak has done well and set a new record in the WC. This is a great thing and we are going to do ok against India I feel.
 
Final chance for Shadab and Nawaz
If they don't perform, replace them with Salman Agha and Usama Mir at 7 and 8
 
PakFan2010 said:
Imam Ul Haq
Abdullah Shafique
Babar Azam
Mohammad Rizwan
Saud Shakeel
Fakhar Zaman
Iftikhar Ahmed
Usama Mir
Hasan Ali
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Haris Rauf

Why not play Iftikhar as the 5th bowler? He has more control than Shadab and Nawaz.
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If they do down this route, which they wouldn't

Then Salman needs to play at 7 instead of Fakhar. Will give some overs as well
 
Today's win should give a good boost to Pakistan. On another rubbish road of a pitch, this time in Ahmedabad, I believe whoever will bat first will likely win it as chasing will have too much of a pressure on both, especially more so on India as they are playing at home in front of a hardcore crowd. Evenly poised, with India having the slightest edge.

Hassan Ali is bowling good and we just need Shaheen to find his mojo back in the opening spells. Shadab must sit out!!
 
Win toss, chase I guess considering the England New Zealand game.
 
Kriketer said:
Today's win should give a good boost to Pakistan. On another rubbish road of a pitch, this time in Ahmedabad, I believe whoever will bat first will likely win it as chasing will have too much of a pressure on both, especially more so on India as they are playing at home in front of a hardcore crowd. Evenly poised, with India having the slightest edge.

Hassan Ali is bowling good and we just need Shaheen to find his mojo back in the opening spells. Shadab must sit out!!
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The pitch won't be a road. It will have something for the fast bowlers under lights, will assist spin too with extra bounce. PAK played brilliantly but Srilanka gave 25 extras with wayward line and length which would not happen with India on oct 14th.
 
Nado_ said:
I fancied our chances more in 2011, our middle order is firing and Abdullah Shafiq is good but our bowling will get taken to pieces.
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The middle order back then was younis khan, misbah, Umar animal, razaaq and Afridi in lower middle order. 260 should have been chased. PAK batting messed up.
 
Coming up against the tournament favourites will be tough for any team

They were seriously on the ropes against the aussies early on but had the mental strength to pull it back and win comfortably. Yes the target was small but it was looking like a mountain in the first few overs.

Another thing to consider is that they have Afghanistan next up, who they are heavy favourites to give a good pasting to. Yes they gave them a really tight game in the last WC but I think that can be taken as an anomaly.

Considering that they will come into the clash full of confidence, whereas we will have good momentum from a record chase. On paper India have the far better team, superior in all departments including bowling which is unusual for this matchup in WCs. India wins but I think we can give them a good game if we bat first, If they win the toss then it could get a whole lot uglier.
 
Kriketer said:
Good luck to both teams, will be a cracking contest
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Let's hope Afridi can become the bowler he used to be within 3 days, otherwise it could be a mauling.

I am kind of dreading Saturday. On current form our bowlers are going to be taken to the cleaners and India aren't going to give us our batsmen all the let offs Sri Lanka did today.
 
Looking more forward to Pakistan v India after today. I think the boys will believe they will be able to chase scores between 300-350 now. They wouldn’t panic as much as they would have done if today didn’t happen. Should be a good contest between the teams, hoping we pull it off.
 
For those calling out Paks bowling - Fair. But who do you think has actually bowled well in the WC so far besides the one match from India.

These are different pitches. Close to roads. Most teams are going to struggle to contain. Hell even SA let Lanka score 320 something. Australia bowled mediocrely, as have England.

Relax. For the love of God.
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
The middle order back then was younis khan, misbah, Umar animal, razaaq and Afridi in lower middle order. 260 should have been chased. PAK batting messed up.
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Yes. Kami and Hafeez got off to a decent start as well. But I can’t forget the amount of times we dropped Tendulkar and that infamous drs decision.
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
The middle order back then was younis khan, misbah, Umar animal, razaaq and Afridi in lower middle order. 260 should have been chased. PAK batting messed up.
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Yes, should have chased but Misbah had other ideas. Dead batting and tuk tukking like there is no tomorrow. I hate him with a passion since that day.
 
Syed1 said:
Yes, should have chased but Misbah had other ideas. Dead batting and tuk tukking like there is no tomorrow. I hate him with a passion since that day.
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You are wrong. Younis khan scored 14 off 33 balls. Hafeez was batting well and threw it away with soft dismissisal
 
Liverpool_Faizan said:
For those calling out Paks bowling - Fair. But who do you think has actually bowled well in the WC so far besides the one match from India.

These are different pitches. Close to roads. Most teams are going to struggle to contain. Hell even SA let Lanka score 320 something. Australia bowled mediocrely, as have England.

Relax. For the love of God.
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agreed. i bet no one thought we could chased 345. i was confident with sub 310 but not 345 although sl played a trundler attack without lahiru and chameera so i guess we always had a chance. india wont have a trundler attack as bumrah and siraj can be deadly. plus their spin trio and pandya who always annoys us with bounce.
i believe in the team. hopefully we can get it done. we have some confidence now knowing we can chase 350.
 
I'm glad Pakistan is at it's best, up with full confidence. I want both the team to lock horns at their absolute best. Man, can't wait!
 
I’m predicting, Pakistan will finally win a wc match against India. Records are meant to be broken and what better way to break it than in front of 120k+ at the Narendra Modi stadium.
 
Abdullah, Babar, Rizwan, Saud, Shaheen, Hasan, Rauf. That's a good team.
Both team have equal chances if winning the game. But India will be under pressure of home crowd.
Pak will win this easily.
 
Mind says India by 7 wickets
Heart says India by 4 wickets

A lot has to go right for us to have a chance. India won't make the same mistakes a talented but raw Sri Lanka side dide. Anything above 300 will be a tough chase, and if we're batting first we need to aim for 350 minimum.

Shaheen needs to go off and take 3 wickets in his opening overs. Abdullah Shafique needs to continue his form, and Babar needs to actually step up for once
 
Sure PAK won an impossible match against SL. The equation of 300 plus and chasing won't be the same with indian batting line up having bumrah siraj kuldeep Yadav jadeja ashwin And hardik pandaya. There won't be 25 extras or two dropped chances. The crowd support will be non existent.

No team will start as favourites.
 
India will have the home advantage surely but the win against SL would have given a lot of confidence to the Pakistani team and would not go down easily against India.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Shubman Gill owner of Ahmedabad pitch will be missed badly. Last 3 outings 3 centuries here in different formats with crazy six hitting. India will have to depend on their seniors.
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Pakistan is missing Naseem. If Gill doesn’t play, it’s likely even.
 
Very unfortunate about Gill's absense in world cup! Home pitches and big event - perfect opportunity for him to announce his authority! Another one to miss is "Pant" a massive upgrade over Kishan or Iyer... He was far more consistent than these two and a better wicket-keeper than Rahul. Also another left-hander in the middle order and the stability he could have brought in terms of balance to the team and also X-factor in knock-out games! And he was already looking to settle well in ODIs...
 
RamLakhan said:
Very unfortunate about Gill's absense in world cup! Home pitches and big event - perfect opportunity for him to announce his authority! Another one to miss is "Pant" a massive upgrade over Kishan or Iyer... He was far more consistent than these two and a better wicket-keeper than Rahul. Also another left-hander in the middle order and the stability he could have brought in terms of balance to the team and also X-factor in knock-out games! And he was already looking to settle well in ODIs...
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life is 99.99% talent and 0.01% luck too. Pant and gill ran out of luck ! 2019 World Cup semis, shikahr too got injured which proved unlucky for India in the end.
 
RamLakhan said:
Very unfortunate about Gill's absense in world cup! Home pitches and big event - perfect opportunity for him to announce his authority! Another one to miss is "Pant" a massive upgrade over Kishan or Iyer... He was far more consistent than these two and a better wicket-keeper than Rahul. Also another left-hander in the middle order and the stability he could have brought in terms of balance to the team and also X-factor in knock-out games! And he was already looking to settle well in ODIs...
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In test cricket, yes. But in LoI, Pant never really got going except that 1 series. He’s seriously underwhelmed audiences. Even when he was available, usually he was always on the bench.
KL Rahul and Iyer have achieved more. Even Kishan has done more with limited opportunities. India has the right combination right now and should just focus on carrying their form forward.
 
Farabi said:
In test cricket, yes. But in LoI, Pant never really got going except that 1 series. He’s seriously underwhelmed audiences. Even when he was available, usually he was always on the bench.
KL Rahul and Iyer have achieved more. Even Kishan has done more with limited opportunities. India has the right combination right now and should just focus on carrying their form forward.
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Only in T20. In ODis he has come a long way. His century in England when India was in tricky situation was outstanding.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Not even close. Gill within no time reached no.2 in the world. Naseem is languishing at 55th rank. On these pitches we have seen what happened to all the pacers.
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Such an expected response. On current form, Naseem is likely a bigger miss than Gill because there are a lot of prolific top order batters available in the world, specially in India. India will seamlessly replace Gill. But India struggled to replace Bumrah as the rare art is quality fast bowling. There are simply very few pacers who can do what Naseem can deliver at 145, swing both ways with control. Killer bouncers and Yorkers.
Gill was all at sea against Naseem both games in Asia cup and luckily escaped a couple of close calls.
As for rankings. I don’t get it. Indians don’t acknowledge Pakistan’s no1 ranking, regularly degrade babar and Imam despite their ranking. But pull out ranking as proof when it comes to their own team and players.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Only in T20. In ODis he has come a long way. His century in England when India was in tricky situation was outstanding.
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There are many batters who have scored a century. It means nothing. Pant is still very much an unknown quantity in ODIs. It’s unclear what he would have done what Iyer/Rahul aren’t already doing.
 
PakFan2010 said:
Unpopular opinion, but I would drop Babar for this.

He is mentally weak and incapable of scoring runs vs India.

Fakhar has a proven track record vs India (CT 2017).
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I could see the logic (even tho it will never happen at this stage) but if it backfires Babar will never get dropped again for as long as he lives.

But at the same time I want to see Bumrah get PTSD from facing Fakhar again.
 
Give the kid a rest!

I know this might sound blasphemous for some but Afridi is clearly playing on with some niggling injuries that could become serious. We have seen this before with Afridi himself but also the poor handling of injuries for Hasan Ali years ago and Naseem Shah more recently.

We all know Afridi's finger is gone, it's knackered, it's blown up! This too on his bowling hand, no wonder he can't get his usually flick and swing. On top of all that there's the knee which was horrifically injured just last year and it has started to haunt him yet again.

The PCB, Babar and "coaches" have to stop thinking of Pakistan v India and think of it merely as game 3 of 9. Pakistan have the squad and the depth to go deep into this tournament, they have some bigger games imo coming up in terms of points vs Australia and England.

So give Afridi a couple games off, Wasim Jr is no mug and getting some games under his belt would probably help, Hasan Ali is shoring up one end anyway and Rauf although not always consistent will get his wickets. The spinners have also started to look better and will only get better one hopes.

Give the kid a rest!
 
Farabi said:
100% aligned. They should rotate the 4 pacers. Rest every pacer for 1 game after 3 games.
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Rest shaheen for who though? Our squad is very limited thanks to inzi, So much so that our reserve players are better then our bench strength.

Abrar, Zaman and Haris bench strength is superior to our current bench strength of waseem Jr, usama, agha and fakhar.

Fakhar is pretty much dead weight at this point. Usama and abrar should be our frontline but sheddy and nawaz ain't go nowhere.

Zaman is > Waseem Jr.

Agha can be slotted in as an extra batsmen though, But he's completly useless as a bat since his nz 2nd string bashing and if he isn't bowling, Haris would be a better utility player.

Haris can slot in at 7, cause let's be honest, Nawaz isn't taking any wickets and nawaz is a useless bat as well so might have haris for nawaz, might as well have ifti bowl all 10 overs, since he's > Nawaz at this point.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PCB Management Committee Chairman, Mr Zaka Ashraf will travel to India tomorrow to witness Pakistan’s fixture against India at the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad on Saturday, 14 October. Zaka Ashraf made the decision to travel to India after it was confirmed that the media personnel were given the go ahead to submit their passports for an Indian visa to cover the ICC Men’s World Cup 2023.

Zaka Ashraf: “I have delayed my travel to India, and I am traveling tomorrow after receiving confirmation that Pakistan’s journalists have been asked to submit their passports to obtain visas to cover the mega event. I am happy that my conversation with the foreign office helped in achieving a positive development regarding the visa delay.

“I am extremely pleased with the way the players have performed so far in the World Cup, winning both matches. The PCB management committee and the entire nation stand firmly behind the players for a successful campaign in the ongoing World Cup.

“I am traveling to India to motivate the team, and my message to them before the India contest will be to play fearlessly as they have been playing throughout the event.”
 
Kuldeep has played what 5 games against Pak, India is yet to lose, and he has done well every time. The other day Rameez Raja was saying Pak batsmen are still not able to pick Kuldeep and urged them to fix it ASAP.

He has the wood over Babar, Fakhar and Rizwan. So that is the main battle of the match for me. If Pakistan has made plans for Kuldeep and execute them well, India will be in trouble. Otherwise Kuldeep is going to make merry like last time, he is one spinner who can cause a collapse and rip through the entire batting lineup in the flattest of conditions.

In terms of importance for India against Pak, Kuldeep>Pandya>Kohli>>>Gill (if he plays)>Rohit>Bumrah>Siraj
 
Sorry to say that for the absolutely huge match on the horizon no one will be rested. Just have to pray he doesn't aggrivate anything and that maybe they can rotate further down the line in the groups
 
To start off with we need to get rid of this stat padding culture, every player does not need to play every single game to boost averages and rankings.

some of our seniors can rest vs Minnows and b c d teams but no we want to play every single game since the past 4 years.

Come to important games what do you expect?

mangment is running like clueless chicken now because They were busy working on rankings and averages and didn't even bother working with bench strength
 
India has been handicapped with the illness to Shubhman Gill. He has a stellar record in Ahmedabad and has got centuries on most games he batted there. Its akin to Kohli's record in Adelaide. Considering Gill will be out, it is a huge advantage Pakistan.

His replacement, Ishan Kishan is the definition of hack. I know he will fluke some runs today against Afghanistan and his fans will oversee it but come proper bowlers in Pakistan game...he will be found out like he did against Starc. The most important thing in ODI cricket is opening partnership and India seems to be weak in that front. BCCI should have roped in a replacement in Yasasvi Jaiswal who is in prime form.

Regarding the match itself, ideally you should always bat first in such a big game. India's chasing record against Pakistan recently not that great as well. We flopped big time in CT Finals, struggling to chase even in last T20 WC but somehow Kohli saved us. So chasing in a big pressure game against Pakistan will always be risky. India's format against Pakistan in ODI cricket has always been bat first, bat big and bat them out. WC 2015, WC 2019, Asia cup 2023...all same formula implemented. So ideally India want to keep simple and implement the same formula this time too.

But, there is a difference this time. Ahmedabad is a great chasing venue and ball comes brilliantly under light. With the onset of dew, it gets very difficult for bowlers to grip the ball. NZ showed in last game against Eng how easy it is to chase. Even Pak chased down the total yesterday easily under lighs bcoz of dew. India will always be wary of this fact and would remember that Dubai 2021 game. So they will not be too unhappy if they have to bowl first either.

I will play this team against Pakistan on 14th -

SKY
Rohit
Kohli
Iyer
KL
Pandya
Jadeja
Kuldep
Shami
Bumrah
Siraj
 
mominsaigol said:
Rest shaheen for who though? Our squad is very limited thanks to inzi, So much so that our reserve players are better then our bench strength.

Abrar, Zaman and Haris bench strength is superior to our current bench strength of waseem Jr, usama, agha and fakhar.

Fakhar is pretty much dead weight at this point. Usama and abrar should be our frontline but sheddy and nawaz ain't go nowhere.

Zaman is > Waseem Jr.

Agha can be slotted in as an extra batsmen though, But he's completly useless as a bat since his nz 2nd string bashing and if he isn't bowling, Haris would be a better utility player.

Haris can slot in at 7, cause let's be honest, Nawaz isn't taking any wickets and nawaz is a useless bat as well so might have haris for nawaz, might as well have ifti bowl all 10 overs, since he's > Nawaz at this point.
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Rotate pacers
 
Farabi said:
Rotate pacers
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Bro what pacer rotation? We have 4 pacers in the squad only, you can't exactly rotate lol, especially when one of those pacers is waseem Jr.

Problem is hasan and Shaheen are new ball bowlers. Rauf and zaman Khan are middle over bowlers. You can't really rotate.

You could do that with naseem shah, because his killer line and length, wicket taking ability and economy meant you could bowl him anywhere. Naseem has bowled everywhere and comes good all the time.

That's not the case for shaheen, Shaheen has a terrific record at opening but garbage in middle overs, Same way Rauf has a terrific record in the middle but garbage anywhere else.

No naseem means rotation is impossible now.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro what pacer rotation? We have 4 pacers in the squad only, you can't exactly rotate lol, especially when one of those pacers is waseem Jr.

Problem is hasan and Shaheen are new ball bowlers. Rauf and zaman Khan are middle over bowlers. You can't really rotate.

You could do that with naseem shah, because his killer line and length, wicket taking ability and economy meant you could bowl him anywhere. Naseem has bowled everywhere and comes good all the time.

That's not the case for shaheen, Shaheen has a terrific record at opening but garbage in middle overs, Same way Rauf has a terrific record in the middle but garbage anywhere else.

No naseem means rotation is impossible now.
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They can definitely rotate if they want to. The plans can be figured out. Wasim Jr is no dud with the ball
 
Farabi said:
They can definitely rotate if they want to. The plans can be figured out. Wasim Jr is no dud with the ball
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In these conditions he's gonna get smoked, same way faheem ashraf eventually got exposed. The dude lacks swing or any sort of variation besides bowling straight. The warmups exposed the bowlers and all bowlers haven't changed the way they have performed since warmups.

Hasan was the best bowler in warmups with Rauf always being expensive but somehow always getting wickets.

Shaheen was trash in warmups and is trash now, Same with sheddy was trash in warmuos and is trash now.

In warmups you can use the batsmen weren't taking it seriously excuse, that excuse doesn't apply to the bowlers lol.
 
For these pitches , Once the ball stops swinging all the pacers have to do is keep it back of a length and make the batsman work for their runs , they are professional bowlers keeping it on a good length should not be hard. Once the batsman start changing the angles or stepping out their crease to put off the length you can then introduce slower balls etc . All the high scoring games have featured some terrible bowling.
 
As per media reports, Arijit Singh to perform, Amitabh Bachchan, Sachin Tendulkar to grace India-Pakistan World Cup match on October 14.
 
How ever you see this match, there is no scenario in which pak win.

If india bat first against pak bowling attack, it will be slaughter. Pak bowling attack looks worse than most minnow attacks with the spinners serving up long hops / full tosses ball after ball.

If india bat 2nd, kholi and Co will chase whatever pak score

Add the fact that there will over 100k attending, pak mental midgets wont be able to handle the pressure
 
castortroy said:
How ever you see this match, there is no scenario in which pak win.

If india bat first against pak bowling attack, it will be slaughter. Pak bowling attack looks worse than most minnow attacks with the spinners serving up long hops / full tosses ball after ball.

If india bat 2nd, kholi and Co will chase whatever pak score

Add the fact that there will over 100k attending, pak mental midgets wont be able to handle the pressure
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The scenario of us winning is if Shaheen rips a couple at the top (unlikely as per form) and India gift a few wickets (could happen due to pressure). India’s one weakness is their long tail, but getting to that tail is a tough task in itself. We then have to negotiate Bumrah and Yadav. Bowlers have to be disciplined and Shadab the dost of all dosts needs to be kicked out.
 
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