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ICC World Cup 2023: India v Pakistan | Match 12 | Ahmedabad | 14 October | Pre-Match Discussion

Which team will win the highly anticipated match between Pakistan and India?

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Liverpool_Faizan said:
For those calling out Paks bowling - Fair. But who do you think has actually bowled well in the WC so far besides the one match from India.

These are different pitches. Close to roads. Most teams are going to struggle to contain. Hell even SA let Lanka score 320 something. Australia bowled mediocrely, as have England.

Relax. For the love of God.
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The eye test.

Not seen any other spinners in the tournament bowling 3 long hops and 1 full toss per over.
 
Nado_ said:
The scenario of us winning is if Shaheen rips a couple at the top (unlikely as per form) and India gift a few wickets (could happen due to pressure). India’s one weakness is their long tail, but getting to that tail is a tough task in itself. We then have to negotiate Bumrah and Yadav. Bowlers have to be disciplined and Shadab the dost of all dosts needs to be kicked out.
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Shaheen really needs to wake up. He is bowling way below his potential and his pace has also declined. He might be playing with another injury or he might not have fully recovered from the old one.
 
castortroy said:
How ever you see this match, there is no scenario in which pak win.

If india bat first against pak bowling attack, it will be slaughter. Pak bowling attack looks worse than most minnow attacks with the spinners serving up long hops / full tosses ball after ball.

If india bat 2nd, kholi and Co will chase whatever pak score

Add the fact that there will over 100k attending, pak mental midgets wont be able to handle the pressure
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No doubt, India is a major favourite going into the match.

But Pakistan needs to stay positive and execute its skills.

I think Pakistan's best chance is to set the score and get 330+ on the board. It's obviously tough but their most realistic shot of winning. They might have chased a big score against SL but the pressure of 132,000 Indian fans against Indian bowling in a big chase is a tough one to overcome.

It won't matter how flat that pitch is or how much dew is on the ground. It's just better to have scoreboard pressure on your side in such matches.
 
kron said:
He us a top bowlers. Top 3 to top 5 but he has been poor in the last game and today as well. So far
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He is not going to take wickets in every game .but on his day he is a match winners. This is why Shaheen is overhyped by Pakistan fan's and Media become Shaheen is also not going to take wickets in every game .now don't say me he is take 1 wicket in every match as I was talking about 2-3 impact wickets
 
Devadwal said:
He is not going to take wickets in every game .but on his day he is a match winners. This is why Shaheen is overhyped by Pakistan fan's and Media become Shaheen is also not going to take wickets in every game .now don't say me he is take 1 wicket in every match as I was talking about 2-3 impact wickets
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Why are you bringing Shaheen into this. Siraj can be crap unilaterally.
 
Devadwal said:
He is not going to take wickets in every game .but on his day he is a match winners. This is why Shaheen is overhyped by Pakistan fan's and Media become Shaheen is also not going to take wickets in every game .now don't say me he is take 1 wicket in every match as I was talking about 2-3 impact wickets
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Yea when he is on fire he can run through the entire team. Devastating bowler. Reminds me of hazlewood but without the height. Bounce wise hazlewood generates more natural bounce but siraj when he bowls a bouncer can be more effective than Josh.

Skillet wise they both are similar.
 
emranabbas said:
To start off with we need to get rid of this stat padding culture, every player does not need to play every single game to boost averages and rankings.

some of our seniors can rest vs Minnows and b c d teams but no we want to play every single game since the past 4 years.

Come to important games what do you expect?

mangment is running like clueless chicken now because They were busy working on rankings and averages and didn't even bother working with bench strength
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The problem is there is no team apart from NL (and not by that much) where we are 100% guaranteed to win even with our main players. Main players are rested in teams where there are good replacements on the bench that have been tested in various bilaterals leading up to the WC. The players that need to be rested i,e the fast bowlers like Shaheen and Rauf have no replacements while ironically there are potentially better spinners on the bench and reserves but they won't be played.

So all in all we just can't afford to rest anyone from now on. Players will just have to keep giving it their all till they finish the tourney or fall trying.
 
160KPH said:
That’s a scary trio, I don’t understand why they don’t always go with this lineup. Surely the trade off in the bowling is worth the sight decline in batting depth.

Thakur isn’t exactly a world beater with the bat.
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Because unlike Pakistan, India rotates and tries to rest players, otherwise you'll have naseem level injuries.

India once made the mistake of taking a completly injured bumrah, bhuvi , Kuldeep and shami etc to the t20 world cup 2021 because they were constantly playing these guys.

Kudleep got injured and was put for years until now, Bumrah had the worst 2021 world cup and got injured soon after for 2 years, Bhuvi never returned.

I'm not taking anything away from Pakistan, but the last time we best India at full strength was in 2017 final.

2021 the whole team was run into the ground with injuries including rohit and Rahul and basically everyone was put of it. Its why they lost by 10 wickets in the first game and 9 in the next.

Since then they make sure to rotate and rest cause they want to be at full strength for the world cup.

I guarantee you the moment India gets automatic selection into the semi's, any filler match will have bumrah, Kohli, Rahul, Siraj and kukdeep rested.
 
mominsaigol said:
Rest shaheen for who though? Our squad is very limited thanks to inzi, So much so that our reserve players are better then our bench strength.

Abrar, Zaman and Haris bench strength is superior to our current bench strength of waseem Jr, usama, agha and fakhar.

Fakhar is pretty much dead weight at this point. Usama and abrar should be our frontline but sheddy and nawaz ain't go nowhere.

Zaman is > Waseem Jr.

Agha can be slotted in as an extra batsmen though, But he's completly useless as a bat since his nz 2nd string bashing and if he isn't bowling, Haris would be a better utility player.

Haris can slot in at 7, cause let's be honest, Nawaz isn't taking any wickets and nawaz is a useless bat as well so might have haris for nawaz, might as well have ifti bowl all 10 overs, since he's > Nawaz at this point.
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Just staying on topic, drop Shaheen for Wasim Jr who had both played for Pakistan and been part of the set up for long enough. He is a solid bowler who can get it up there in terms of pace and is definitely faster than current Shaheen and in his time in T20 cricket shown he can either keep a line/length consistently (Shaheen cant do that currently) and is imo better at swicthing pace and bowling cutters.

A fully fit Shaheen is obviously a far better bowler but the current version is a liability.
 
Devadwal said:
I mean really? Pakistani fans are hilarious . Talk of dropping Babar and Shaheen is nothing short of embarrassment.
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I never said drop Babar.

I never said drop Shaheen for no reason...I said for him to regain his fitness if he can or is he long termed injured? We just dont know.

Babar is out of form at the moment and probably needs to lay off the fast food BUT he is still one of the best bats in the world and just needs an innings to get back into the groove.
 
Some discussion on toss here...it's a slightly tricky one. Ahmedabad statistically is SLIGHTLY better at batting first and winning but in a game like this, on the types of pitches the location has shown and the poor bowling, for Pakistan, they HAVE to chase. I'd be ocnfident the batting line up can chase between 300-350...and maybe up to 360.
 
owenhcricket said:
I never said drop Babar.

I never said drop Shaheen for no reason...I said for him to regain his fitness if he can or is he long termed injured? We just dont know.

Babar is out of form at the moment and probably needs to lay off the fast food BUT he is still one of the best bats in the world and just needs an innings to get back into the groove.
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He only can back to form by playing match . And who said he is out of form as few matches ago he made a hundred
 
owenhcricket said:
I never said drop Babar.

I never said drop Shaheen for no reason...I said for him to regain his fitness if he can or is he long termed injured? We just dont know.

Babar is out of form at the moment and probably needs to lay off the fast food BUT he is still one of the best bats in the world and just needs an innings to get back into the groove.
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You want babar to rest against India? I'd be fine with that if we didn't have agha salman of all people as his only possible replacement In the squad lol.

Once we find a replacement for pur no 3 I'll let you know.
 
owenhcricket said:
Some discussion on toss here...it's a slightly tricky one. Ahmedabad statistically is SLIGHTLY better at batting first and winning but in a game like this, on the types of pitches the location has shown and the poor bowling, for Pakistan, they HAVE to chase. I'd be ocnfident the batting line up can chase between 300-350...and maybe up to 360.
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I don't think... Anything above 300 and game over for Pakistan..
 
Anil Kumble during an interview lauds Saud Shakeel, concerned about Shaheen Afridi:

“If you look at both the games that Pakistan have won, they were in trouble. Thanks to Rizwan on both occasions, they got through that phase. But what was really impressive in this game and even against the Netherlands is that number five, which is Saud Shakeel, looked very busy and that takes the pressure off because you don’t want your number five to take his time and get stuck because it puts pressure on Rizwan since he is a busy player. Even after Abdullah got out [against Sri Lanka], Saud came in and kept the momentum going so that really augers well for Pakistan,”

“Bowling on this surface looked vulnerable. They have pace certainly but Shaheen Shah Afridi has still not hit the straps that you would expect from someone of his ability and quality. If he comes good for Pakistan, then you better watch out,”​
 
owenhcricket said:
Some discussion on toss here...it's a slightly tricky one. Ahmedabad statistically is SLIGHTLY better at batting first and winning but in a game like this, on the types of pitches the location has shown and the poor bowling, for Pakistan, they HAVE to chase. I'd be ocnfident the batting line up can chase between 300-350...and maybe up to 360.
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Both team can't chase anything above 310 .its pressure game so batting first is way to go .
 
Anyone who saying Babar Azam should be rested, he had been a little unlucky in both innings although he got bogged down against Netherlands . He will come good , against India I don’t know but he needs that time in the middle
 
Good to see Siraj, Jadeja and Kuldeep being hit currently, should inspire our batsmen.
 
mominsaigol said:
You want babar to rest against India? I'd be fine with that if we didn't have agha salman of all people as his only possible replacement In the squad lol.

Once we find a replacement for pur no 3 I'll let you know.
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HUh? Where did you get that from?
 
Ali Active said:
Social media is rumoured that zaka ashraf is apparently Gone to india to fix ind pak match
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One person I would love to see get booted out of India. Either he will be begging for something ridiculous like Jinnah-Gandhi series to steal money for his lords or saying something silly to embarrass Pakistan further. Sifarshi incompetent puppet placed by a puppet corrupt government
 
Watching it live from stadium.hoping to be a great match
..watched ind vs asu as well,which wasn't a paisa vasool
 
PakFan2010 said:
Unpopular opinion, but I would drop Babar for this.

He is mentally weak and incapable of scoring runs vs India.

Fakhar has a proven track record vs India (CT 2017).
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Who's gonna drop him!!! He literally runs the show, even Zaka doesn't dare to question him. Now after such a record breaking win, he has become even more untouchable.
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
The middle order back then was younis khan, misbah, Umar animal, razaaq and Afridi in lower middle order. 260 should have been chased. PAK batting messed up.
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Umar Akmal is what you meant I believe 😁. Well he is the only one who seemed to have an idea on what they were chasing. Afridi, Razzak were straight up rubbish. MisYou as usual put on a couple of classic test match masterclasses. Ind won the match the moment Harbhajan bowled Akmal.
 
In a way, I am happy that Shaheen hasnt performed yet and his performance is due..same with Babar..but problem is that Shaheen is carrying an injury, so its more a fitness problem rather than form issue for Shaheen..so definitely much less expectations from him…otherwise usually he keeps hos best for India game…rarely he performs poorly against India, like the last Asia cup game recently…but since its an injury issue..so obviously he wouldnt be at his top..

Also, an off day is due for Rizwan…cant be scoring heavily in every match…so i am dreading he wont come good in this game.. will be happy to be proven wrong.... Usama should also come in place of Shadab..

Match is 70/30 in India’s favor
 
Farah Sohail said:
In a way, I am happy that Shaheen hasnt performed yet and his performance is due..same with Babar..but problem is that Shaheen is carrying an injury, so its more a fitness problem rather than form issue for Shaheen..so definitely much less expectations from him…otherwise usually he keeps hos best for India game…rarely he performs poorly against India, like the last Asia cup game recently…but since its an injury issue..so obviously he wouldnt be at his top..

Also, an off day is due for Rizwan…cant be scoring heavily in every match…so i am dreading he wont come good in this game.. will be happy to be proven wrong.... Usama should also come in place of Shadab..

Match is 70/30 in India’s favor
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If it is a spinning track where India selects Kuldeep, Jadeja and Ashwin - Game over. but I have a good feeling for the next game as Babar is due a century and hopefully Imam or Fakhar will score some runs too. India is a stronger side than us, so we do need some luck on our side.
 
Devadwal said:
He is not going to take wickets in every game .but on his day he is a match winners. This is why Shaheen is overhyped by Pakistan fan's and Media become Shaheen is also not going to take wickets in every game .now don't say me he is take 1 wicket in every match as I was talking about 2-3 impact wickets
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Dude other than bumrah all your pacers are overhyped too so stop criticizing Shaheen. Hes is still a top bowler once he's fully fit. It's due to our team management that our pacers looks burnt out right now
 
7sins said:
Dude other than bumrah all your pacers are overhyped too so stop criticizing Shaheen. Hes is still a top bowler once he's fully fit. It's due to our team management that our pacers looks burnt out right now
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Tell me which one is overhyped .I know Shaheen is a class bowler but Pakistan fan's and Media overhyped him so much
 
7sins said:
Same way goes to over hyped siraj
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Siraj two match ago take 6 wicket hall .we understand that he is not going to take lots of wickets in every match so where we overhyped him .his performance in very short career is showing that he is a class bowlers .he already won a test series in Australia which some legend didn't win
 
I have a strong feeling that India is going to falter in this match. Pakistan can win this one as they are looking confident now.

My prediction is that India will bat first and score less than 300, with Pakistan chasing it down.
 
7sins said:
Dude other than bumrah all your pacers are overhyped too so stop criticizing Shaheen. Hes is still a top bowler once he's fully fit. It's due to our team management that our pacers looks burnt out right now
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I think whenever shaheen dont perform well, he becomes to be unfit. He is a good actor like his FIL.
 
Babar is showing no confidence and seems seriously out of form. I understand that sometimes batsmen struggle to score runs, but he is getting out to some of the easiest deliveries. It's evident that he is under pressure due to his captaincy.

The media is also playing a role, with almost 75% of Pakistani journalists and sports media targeting him, often referring to him as 'yaaro ka yaar' (friend of friends). Even players like Hafeez have distanced themselves, feeling that Babar wields too much power. Misbah's criticism of Babar's dominance in player selection sums up the story and sheds light on why he is under so much pressure.
 
adi_62941 said:
I think whenever shaheen dont perform well, he becomes to be unfit. He is a good actor like his FIL.
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Even if he's fit and not bowling we'll who cares!!For a bowler like Shaheen you will keep backing him no matter how many matches
 
I wish we had an easy match before meeting India so that we could have rested Shaheen. He is clearly carrying an injury (again on his dreaded knee), we saw the bandages when he was on the sidelines getting some help from the physio in the SL match.

With Shaheen at 60% and Naseem missing, all the hopes are with Haris but he really only shows up after the 35th over.
 
Syed1 said:
I wish we had an easy match before meeting India so that we could have rested Shaheen. He is clearly carrying an injury (again on his dreaded knee), we saw the bandages when he was on the sidelines getting some help from the physio in the SL match.

With Shaheen at 60% and Naseem missing, all the hopes are with Haris but he really only shows up after the 35th over.
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Pakistan first two match were against lowest rank team .now only afganistan is left
 
Syed1 said:
I wish we had an easy match before meeting India so that we could have rested Shaheen. He is clearly carrying an injury (again on his dreaded knee), we saw the bandages when he was on the sidelines getting some help from the physio in the SL match.

With Shaheen at 60% and Naseem missing, all the hopes are with Haris but he really only shows up after the 35th over.
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The PCB, Babar or Shaheen himself is unwilling to be left out and he is damaging his own long term career. If you've seen my posts here I've been speaking about Shaheen's injuries since the Asia Cup and about the long term damage the PCB has done to other players by either having a poorly qualified medical staff or some sort of complete incompetence.

I don't even see any issue in leaving Shaheen on the bench in the game against India, he is bringing nothing to the table at the moment. India is simply game no. 3, game no. 4 is Afg which is very winnable, going 3-1 or 4-0 into the latter games is good enough for Pakistan. They don't need to bow to publish pressure and play India as if it is the only game that exists. This is a world cup not an Indo-Pak series.
 
adi_62941 said:
Babar is showing no confidence and seems seriously out of form. I understand that sometimes batsmen struggle to score runs, but he is getting out to some of the easiest deliveries. It's evident that he is under pressure due to his captaincy.

The media is also playing a role, with almost 75% of Pakistani journalists and sports media targeting him, often referring to him as 'yaaro ka yaar' (friend of friends). Even players like Hafeez have distanced themselves, feeling that Babar wields too much power. Misbah's criticism of Babar's dominance in player selection sums up the story and sheds light on why he is under so much pressure.
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Can you blame media, former captains or literally anybody here who's calling him out? All these criticisms are logical, nothing unfounded. Now if he finally puts up big boy pant,performs & wins a big match, if his friends start performing at least less worse than what they have so far then all these talks will vanish. Rizwan is the biggest example. He was criticized a lot, some of them fair, some of them unfair, now that he has performed big time nobody is talking against him.
 
Suleiman said:
I could see the logic (even tho it will never happen at this stage) but if it backfires Babar will never get dropped again for as long as he lives.

But at the same time I want to see Bumrah get PTSD from facing Fakhar again.
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Bumrah has faced and schooled fakhar since 2017.
It's been 6 years man, move on.
 
Caved12 said:
If it is a spinning track where India selects Kuldeep, Jadeja and Ashwin - Game over. but I have a good feeling for the next game as Babar is due a century and hopefully Imam or Fakhar will score some runs too. India is a stronger side than us, so we do need some luck on our side.
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You should actually pray that Imam falis again cheaply or Babar simply drops him altogether. Because if he scores runs those will certainly harm Pak more, his typical 70(90) ain't gonna effect the Indians even in the slightest.
 
VForVendetta said:
Can you blame media, former captains or literally anybody here who's calling him out? All these criticisms are logical, nothing unfounded. Now if he finally puts up big boy pant,performs & wins a big match, if his friends start performing at least less worse than what they have so far then all these talks will vanish. Rizwan is the biggest example. He was criticized a lot, some of them fair, some of them unfair, now that he has performed big time nobody is talking against him.
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our history is like that. We do wonders sometime and sometimes completely fails to do simple things. Thats into nations nature i guess. It will be no surprise if pak manages to beat india and then go on to lose every single match ahead.
 
adi_62941 said:
our history is like that. We do wonders sometime and sometimes completely fails to do simple things. Thats into nations nature i guess. It will be no surprise if pak manages to beat india and then go on to lose every single match ahead.
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If Pak manages to beat Ind somehow I can guarantee you 100% they will at least make to the semis. The moral booster will do wonders. They have never performed poorly in an icc event whenever they have beaten Ind. This time also won't be different if it indeed does happen. Problem is looking at the both sides' current composition I don't see even 10% of the miracle happening.
 
Thing is weaker Indian teams have beaten stronger Pakistan teams in the WC. I can't see us chasing more than 300. Our best option is to bat 1st get 300+ and hope Shaheen has a good night.
 
At least there’s zero expectation for Pakistan in this match.

That’s the only positive I can think of.

On current form a combined Indo-Pak XI would comprise of 10 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
 
Many will say 2011 semi or 2017 CT Final but the venue, the potential crowd makes this much more epic. Also the team that wins is basically a certainty to reach semis.
 
World no.1 ranked side Pakistan taking on World no.2 ranked side India. I don't think they were ever ranked higher simultaneously during a world cup.
 
Yes Pakistan is world no. 1 team right now according to ICC rankings .they should be clear Favourite for 14 October game. They just coming from world record chase which was Arguably best ever match by Pakistan according to fan's .
 
Babar needs to drop Imam the deadweight & include Fakhar. With him at least you can expect some great fielding something Pak desperately missed last night. If he somehow finds his mojo back he most likely can put pressure back on Indians. With Imam nothing benefits, he will either score 10 from 15 or 55 from 75 or the worst 105 from 130. None of the scenarios help Pak one bit. Also Usama needs to be included in place of one of the lollypop spin twins. Ideally it should have been Shadab, but I'll recommend to drop Nawaz. He is as soft as one gets, an obvious mental midget & due to previous nightmarish experiences will lose the plot once again at crucial stages. Shadab much like Fakhar at least ensures good fielding. With the current hollow squad this is the best possible xi they can field :

Abdullah
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan
Saud
Iftekhar
Shadab
Usama
Hasan
Shaheen
Rauf
 
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