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ICC World Cup 2023: Sri Lanka (160/2) extend England's (156) win-less streak with a humiliating 8-wicket win in Match 25

FWIW- England WC is pretty much over. They should focus on the upcoming t20 wc .they are still a force in t20 and will.be faves. Plus a lot of the older players from this WC will not feature in the t20 WC - like Malan root, maybe stokes, moeen, woakes., willey..
 
The world champs have just not turned up at this tournament. Their white ball revolution has come crashing down in flames.

Have only really seen their style in full flow against Bangladesh. They haven't known who their best 11 is, and have the complete opposite problem to Pakistan of too much intent rather than not enough of it.

Being aggressive bought them to be double champs, but they've overcooked it this time around. Even on the road to their 2019 triumph they had periods where they needed to negotiate before going hard, but now they want to smack every single ball which has not worked.

A lot will likely change after this campaign, maybe roy will come back and we may see more of hain, salt and billings. Here's hoping we can see more of the dynamic england in the future that has bought so much to the white ball game.
 
Mamoon said:
The fact that you are calling me a troll and proceed to juxtapose Moeen with Mark Wood, Stokes, and Bairstow shows your ignorance.

Mark Wood was England's second-best bowler during their triumphant World Cup 4 years ago. Stokes was England's best player by a mile, and Bairstow stood up for England in big moments.

Moeen was a liability and had to be kicked out of the World Cup for England to get their campaign on track. He did nothing in ODIs over the last 4 years and the fact that he is still on the team shows that England has not learned.

The 2019 World Cup should have been his last ODI assignment.

As far as Roy is concerned, he would have done nothing on these pitches. He struggles on slow wickets. Had he played and failed, people would have said England made a mistake by selecting an out-of-form player. Hindsight is always a luxury but foresight is your responsibility.
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With all due respect bhai sahab, who is talking about the world cup 2019?

You clearly mentioned Moeen was at fault for this campaign, and since you are such a genius I will explain to you what is meant by "this campaign", i.e. the current world cup.

All the reasons I mentioned and more are to blame for England's seriously poor campaigns, in fact it may turn into one of their worst.

Honestly I used to think you were just a troll but I just realised...you actually believe what you're typing :hafeez2

"pawaar house batting" wah dr sahab wa ;)
 
Devadwal said:
Pak in 2011
England in 2019
Kenya in 2003

all three Teams were Played Semis only once in 21st century in 50 over WC
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Sometimes stats don't tell the full story.

Pakistan were certainly poor in 2003. Pakistan were just as bad in 2007.

However post those two world cups, you are correct, Pakistan only made the semis in 2011 but making the quarter finals in 2015 was not too bad, considering they faced home town favourites and eventual winners Australia (the same team that thumped India by almost 100 runs, India themselves making the semis by beating lowly Bang).

In the 2019 and the current editions of the world cup, we sadly dont have the "traditional" tournament style concept. The first stage is the only stage. There is no quarter final. Pakistan making the 5th spot in 2019 and LEVEL on points with NZ who were eventual finalists was not bad at all, especially considering they kept the tournament alive almost till their final game.

If Pak or Eng make it to the 5th spot this year, both teams are essentially second best to the eventual semi finalists.

Different formats means difference in importance for the semis.
 
Mamoon said:
Your ignorance is always exposed but this is not the first time. Your chest-thumping prior to the 2018 Asia Cup cannot be forgotten either.

Calling England the best ODI team in the world in Jan 2023 and when they have been struggling in the format by their standards since 2021 and ahead of India in terms of favorites for the 2023 World Cup shows that you are out of touch with reality.

You came all guns blazing like Rauf but quickly cowered after I dug up your posts that you had forgotten or thought everyone else would forget.

I'm sorry I had to expose you like this but I had no choice. No offence.
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I don’t think I have denied in my posts that I did believe England were arguably the best LOI team going into the World Cup back in January 2023, two months after they had been crowned T20 champions aswell. As I said I am not the one claiming to be “three steps ahead of everyone here”.

Your opinion about England being the best ODI team ever is well known on this forum. I am sure someone with as much time on your hands will dig up your posts. One post about you crying over Moeen Ali doesn’t change the fact that you have been chest thumping over England’s ‘pawar hitters’ since forever, and now you have been seen crying about Archer’s injuries.
 
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NZ despite their last hurdle issues are the most versatile team going around. No matter where it happens they manage to put up a creditable performance.
 
Usman Chadda said:
I don’t think I have denied in my posts that I did believe England were arguably the best LOI team going into the World Cup back in January 2023, two months after they had been crowned T20 champions aswell. As I said I am not the one claiming to be “three steps ahead of everyone here”.

Your opinion about England being the best ODI team ever is well known on this forum. I am sure someone with as much time on your hands will dig up your posts. One post about you crying over Moeen Ali doesn’t change the fact that you have been chest thumping over England’s ‘pawar hitters’ since forever, and now you have been seen crying about Archer’s injuries.

You really have become a meme on this forum lol
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England have been unconvincing in ODIs since 2021. Winning the T20 World Cup doesn’t paper over the cracks that had started to appear over the last couple of years.

The fact that you thought in Jan 2023 that they were still the best ODI team around and bigger favorites for the World Cup than India shows that you were completely out of touch with reality.

I never said England is the best ODI team ever but they were phenomenal during their peak run and one of the best ever for sure. They took ODI batting a new level and were extremely fun to watch.

They proved themselves by winning the World Cup. They did their job and now it is time for England to look forward and move on some of those players who achieved the highest accolades.

I don’t understand what people are mocking them for? They are the defending champions for a reason. Are they supposed to win every World Cup to prove themselves? What rubbish.

It seems like this is all about taking attention away from how pathetic Pakistan is.

England disproved their ignorant critics when they won the World Cup in 2019. People thought they couldn’t do it but they egged everyone in the face.

I still remember the celebrations (premature) when England were in a rut in the last World Cup after losing to Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Australia but they gave a resounding shut up call to their critics and won every game from that point to win the World Cup.

They have nothing else to prove. Their era has come to an end and it was a brilliant one.
 
owenhcricket said:
With all due respect bhai sahab, who is talking about the world cup 2019?

You clearly mentioned Moeen was at fault for this campaign, and since you are such a genius I will explain to you what is meant by "this campaign", i.e. the current world cup.

All the reasons I mentioned and more are to blame for England's seriously poor campaigns, in fact it may turn into one of their worst.

Honestly I used to think you were just a troll but I just realised...you actually believe what you're typing :hafeez2

"pawaar house batting" wah dr sahab wa ;)
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I fully understood what you meant. Your English is not great but better than most. It is comprehensible.

Let me give you a lesson in simple logic. There is something called player credibility and past body of work.

Whilst two players might be equally at fault at a given moment, you cannot treat them equally - or subject them to the same criticism - based on their history and overall performances.

You have quoted players who have been starts for England and made massive contributions to their World Cup victory in 2019 with a mediocre joker who deserved the 2019 winners medal as much as you did and who should not have played a single ODI for England afterwards.

He was a on a one man mission to destroy England’s World Cup before Morgan had to kick him out.

In this ongoing World Cup, everyone has struggled and failed to perform. That however doesn’t give you the license to put everyone in the same boat. Certain players will get more leeway than others and more chances to prove themselves based on their previous track record.
 
Eng has something like 12 wins and 13 losses in the last 4 WCs since 2011 Group games. Even in the last WC they were lucky after all the bazball talk. ODIs never were really their priority.
 
Mas-LFC said:
Definitely true. Bangladeshi batsman are weaker, do not have strong arms, they have poor diet throughout the year even during series and tournaments, most of them love daal bhaat aka rice. Not only they lack temperament and application, they also lack stamina, desire to score big runs. Most of them get easily satisfied with any little early fame and success!
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more importantly, Bangladeshi Batsman lack skills. Rohit is famous for saying his favorite food still is Dal Chawal. None of Indians are huge or powerfully built. They are mostly in shape and look decent. Jadeja is a fantastic athlete and Virat is Virat due to sheer hard work. Others like Bumrah, KL, Siraj, Pandya etc are in good shape due to monitored diet and regular workout. This is level of fitness most can achieve with some effort. These are professional athletes; this is the least they should be doing.
 
MMHS said:
I’m sure ENG will come back stronger next WC. One reason is that it’s in SAF - one of the least spin friendly among WC venues.

But the main reason is that, England was stuck in the trap of continuity - they had a very successful LO squad and that team delivered as well (2 World titles), but problem with such generation is that they age together, too big figures to be dropped and players don’t retire either voluntarily. This is something we see regularly in soccer as well - that wonderful French & Spanish teams, Italy of 2010, Germany 2018/22…

This English team has some highly successful LO cricketers but at the wrong side of career - Butler 33, Moeen 36, Stokes 33, Malan 36/7, Johnny 33, most of the pacers around early to mid 30s, Adil 35+, Root 33 …. Few experienced players are good for a WC squad, but it’s a daddy’s army, if not grandpa’s!!!

I believe 7/8 players will retire after WC, few will be dropped and few average players (but excelled in patches) will be phased out - by 2027, they’ll be in a much better shape than 2023 squad.
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Age should not be a factor. Rohit is 36, Virat will 35 in a week, Ashwin 37, Jadeja 35 in a month, Shami 33 (probably more). All the good performers are around mid 30s.
 
BDfanforever said:
Eng has something like 12 wins and 13 losses in the last 4 WCs since 2011 Group games. Even in the last WC they were lucky after all the bazball talk. ODIs never were really their priority.
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Stokes retired and then took back retirement. England were also experimenting.

After Eoin Morgan retired, it seemed like their ODI performance tanked.
 
Mott: England failures hard to explain
England white-ball coach Matthew Mott:

"Not great. Coming into this match, we knew it was do or die.

"I thought we started really well with the bat, looked quite positive. But we kept losing wickets in quick succession and we were at least 100-120 short of a good score on that wicket.

"I don't know [what's going wrong]. I've had a quick chat with Jos; it's really hard to explain.

"We had a good series leading into this against New Zealand. We came over here full of confidence with some world-class players who have won World Cups.

"But for whatever reason, we seem to have a few players out of form at the wrong time and it has hurt us dearly."
 
SportsWarrior said:
Age should not be a factor. Rohit is 36, Virat will 35 in a week, Ashwin 37, Jadeja 35 in a month, Shami 33 (probably more). All the good performers are around mid 30s.
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Performing “good” & “being over the hill” are two different things - with couple of weeks conditioning, Wasim Akram, at this age probably will do better to defend 282 against Afghans than what PAK pacers did, that could be good/bad I don’t know - but certainly he won’t be even a fake image of Wasim Akram of 1992…..

Shakib is still good, and he is officially 36 - he will be good enough to play for us till next WC…. Who knows, even the 2031 home one …. But will he be or is he the Shakib Al Hasan of 2019 WC?

That’s the difference between “Good” & “Over the Hill”, because Wasim, Root, Stokes, Shakib, Kohli, Rohit, Shami …. Their peak is set by their own standards, not on average yardstick.
 
There is a reason why there is an asterisks next to England's WC 2019 win, they totally fluked it in the final. How can you be World Champs if you cannot even beat the opposition score?

The other thing here is those delusional fans who thought Brookes was the second coming of next generation batsmen, have been handed a hard reality check.

England have always been an average team, they had a 1 or 2 year blip with that nonsense called Bazball, and could not even retain the Ashes at home this year.

There is a reason why Stokes et al have refused to sign a 3 year central contract with England Tests/ODis, he knows England are bang average and overrated Test/ODI team.

In this WC thus far - the defending champions:

vs BNG - 364 runs - WIN
vs NZ - all out for 282 runs. LOST
vs AFG - all out for 215 runs. LOST
vs SA - all out for 170 runs. LOST
vs SL - all out for 156 runs LOST

Pathetic scores for current World Champion defenders.

4 times failed to cross 300, twice failed to cross 200, and managed 215 chasing 284.

It is England that is playing 90s cricket and is the most mediocre team in this tournament.
 
Collective failure from Eng yet again…

This has to be the greatest fall from grace in ODIs from arguably the best in the world to arguably the worst team in such a short period of time results wise in between tournaments.

Maybe Pakistan 1999 to 2003
 
Technics 1210 said:
There is a reason why there is an asterisks next to England's WC 2019 win, they totally fluked it in the final. How can you be World Champs if you cannot even beat the opposition score?

The other thing here is those delusional fans who thought Brookes was the second coming of next generation batsmen, have been handed a hard reality check.

England have always been an average team, they had a 1 or 2 year blip with that nonsense called Bazball, and could not even retain the Ashes at home this year.

There is a reason why Stokes et al have refused to sign a 3 year central contract with England Tests/ODis, he knows England are bang average and overrated Test/ODI team.

In this WC thus far - the defending champions:

vs BNG - 364 runs - WIN
vs NZ - all out for 282 runs. LOST
vs AFG - all out for 215 runs. LOST
vs SA - all out for 170 runs. LOST
vs SL - all out for 156 runs LOST

Pathetic scores for current World Champion defenders.

4 times failed to cross 300, twice failed to cross 200, and managed 215 chasing 284.

It is England that is playing 90s cricket and is the most mediocre team in this tournament.
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Was just thinking about Brooke's mediocrity and how hard Roy was done by.
 
I’ve said all along that England would not retain the World Cup, but I did not think they would be so abjectly bad as this. I thought there might be 8 or 10 points out there for them, if not a semi final place, but they’ll struggle to reach 6 points on this form. There seems to be no confidence or direction within the team at all. They’ve also recorded their record tournament loss in terms of runs scored. A truly dismal defence. Mott should be sacked for this debacle and Buttler’s captaincy will be very lucky to survive it.
 
James said:
I’ve said all along that England would not retain the World Cup, but I did not think they would be so abjectly bad as this. I thought there might be 8 or 10 points out there for them, if not a semi final place, but they’ll struggle to reach 6 points on this form. There seems to be no confidence or direction within the team at all. They’ve also recorded their record tournament loss in terms of runs scored. A truly dismal defence. Mott should be sacked for this debacle and Buttler’s captaincy will be very lucky to survive it.
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Australia was like this as well. Stoinis inspired them in the Pakistan match. He brought a lot of energy to the team. Gradually one by one joined the party. England lacks one such guy. Buttler should have led from the front. If Bairstow is out of form , he should have opened the batting. He is the best IPL player from England by some distance. Should have changed things up.
 
There is something exciting about this Sri Lankan team. They are probably one of the very few teams that plays fearless cricket. All they need is a bit of consistency
 
WengerOut said:
No wonder @Aman is drooling over Rugby WC. NZ has gone down to third in this WC table. Next match is against Aus. Just in case things go South for them, he has the fallback. " We dont care about this boring WC. We are Rugby people "..
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Lol I've been criticizing the WC from day 1. When we were on top of the table.

As for the RWC, we're likely to lose the Final. SA are favorites and we've been pretty bad for the last few years. The ABs overachieved by making the final.
 
Aman said:
Aus are getting third.

4th between us, Pak and SL.

England mathematically can still make it but really they're out.
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England is as good as gone . Nasser hussain wants the ENglish team to take it out on India

www.dailymail.co.uk

NASSER HUSSAIN: It feels like an end of an era for England

NASSER HUSSAIN IN BANGALORE: I have not seen this England side play as badly in any back to back matches as they have against South Africa in Mumbai and now here against Sri Lanka.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

They have to go to Lucknow on Sunday and spoil India’s party. They must remind India and the world just how great cricketers they have been – and still are.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England is as good as gone . Nasser hussain wants the ENglish team to take it out on India

www.dailymail.co.uk

NASSER HUSSAIN: It feels like an end of an era for England

NASSER HUSSAIN IN BANGALORE: I have not seen this England side play as badly in any back to back matches as they have against South Africa in Mumbai and now here against Sri Lanka.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

They have to go to Lucknow on Sunday and spoil India’s party. They must remind India and the world just how great cricketers they have been – and still are.
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India are probably going to hammer them lol.

Puts our win over them in perspective. They're bad. Really bad.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Srilankans are very very strong physically. I don't think BD batsmen are that strong. Jaya and Kalu both short. But forearm of Jayasuriya was bigger than Agarkar legs
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Yes for sure without doubt. Sri Lanka are physically strong. Look at lahiru, madhushanka (wiry strength) and their batsmen are all good hitters. Natural power despite slender frames.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England is as good as gone . Nasser hussain wants the ENglish team to take it out on India

www.dailymail.co.uk

NASSER HUSSAIN: It feels like an end of an era for England

NASSER HUSSAIN IN BANGALORE: I have not seen this England side play as badly in any back to back matches as they have against South Africa in Mumbai and now here against Sri Lanka.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

They have to go to Lucknow on Sunday and spoil India’s party. They must remind India and the world just how great cricketers they have been – and still are.
Click to expand...
England can beat India if india take foot off gas.
 
Eng will like to beat Aus to salvage their pride. Ending the WC campaign of their biggest rivals would provide them some relief.
 
The India game will be another humiliation.

England aren’t beating anyone on this form. A consolation win against Netherlands is the best that they can hope for. But they even might lose to Netherlands as the final nail, who have played some decent cricket at times in this tournament where England have played almost none.

This World Cup for England has the feel of one of their famous 0-5 Ashes tours; where a few things go wrong early, the players are all out of form and seem mentally wrecked, and things completely unravel from there, with England finding new and wonderful ways to lose each game, and everyone going from venue to venue looking completely bamboozled as to what’s going on.

England will be lucky not to finish rock bottom in the table.
 
England simply haven't adapted to the this meta of ODI cricket.

The kookaburra balls used since 2021 have often swung, bounced and seamed more, brought finger spinners back into the game etc.

England are still trying to play a brand of ODI cricket which was allowed by their flat tracks and the earlier version of the kookaburra ball.

You need to bat a bit more traditional ODI cricket through the middle overs and build a platform by playing risk-free cricket on Indian pitches with these newer kookaburras.

India and SA average around 473 with bat in this CWC while looking to score without boundaries and rotating while England have averaged 24 while trying to do the same(source : Ben Jones)


The lack of traditional ODI skills from Buttler, Bairstow, Brook et al. has been brutally exposed by Indian conditions and the newer kookaburras.
 
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