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India [332 & 106/2] beat Australia [300 & 137] by 8 wickets in the fourth Test, win series 2-1

Jadeja should not attack here. He should bowl his usual suffocating line & length. Ashwin & Kuldeep can attack. If India bat the way they did in last match, they have real chance in this match!
 
That first session where India bowled some absolute rubbish will haunt them. This pitch is a tough one to bat on and India only have five batsmen and will be facing a pretty motivated Australian attack. Getting to bowl an hour before the close would be perfect for Australia, regardless of how many more runs they get. Get two wickets and it's a good day's work for the Aussies.
 
Ash, Jaddu and Kuldeep in full form will be something else at home.

Overseas, the way Kuldeep is showing potential (if he continues this), I think it will be Ash and Jaddu who have to fight for 2nd spinner spot. In fact, Ash is on the firing line.

This is a great problem to have.

All that aside, this pitch has those cracks which can bring that bloody monster O Keefe into play. Right now, its docile for most part but in 4th innings, O Keefe may be unplayable.
 
This series goes from one extreme to another every day

At end of first session I stopped watching and I was dead sure a 400+ was a guarantee

Now i turn on and it's unlikely that even a 250 is on the cards

Smith though :bow:
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
The best Indian talent when it comes to spin.
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Left-armers and chinamen are the hot commodities as far as spin bowling is concerned. Off-spin is pretty much dead with Lyon being the second best offie in the world and leg-spinners are never good across formats (barring Warne, of course).
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ash, Jaddu and Kuldeep in full form will be something else at home.

Overseas, the way Kuldeep is showing potential (if he continues this), I think it will be Ash and Jaddu who have to fight for 2nd spinner spot. In fact, Ash is on the firing line.

This is a great problem to have.

All that aside, this pitch has those cracks which can bring that bloody monster O Keefe into play. Right now, its docile for most part but in 4th innings, O Keefe may be unplayable.
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We won't be able to chase anything more than a 120 in the final innings. Need to get a lead of at least 100 here.
 
Wow.... 208-6. Who would have thought? That too without Jadeja bagging any wicket?

Kuldeep... ! :109:
 
Slog said:
This series goes from one extreme to another every day

At end of first session I stopped watching and I was dead sure a 400+ was a guarantee

Now i turn on and it's unlikely that even a 250 is on the cards

Smith though :bow:
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session mate! every session has a different winner.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ash, Jaddu and Kuldeep in full form will be something else at home.

Overseas, the way Kuldeep is showing potential (if he continues this), I think it will be Ash and Jaddu who have to fight for 2nd spinner spot. In fact, Ash is on the firing line.

This is a great problem to have.

All that aside, this pitch has those cracks which can bring that bloody monster O Keefe into play. Right now, its docile for most part but in 4th innings, O Keefe may be unplayable.
Click to expand...

Where is that other spinner who also scored a ton recently? India can start playing a four-man spin attack at home, with Shami the lone (and only good) seamer.
 
The cracks got smith. The ball before that turned miles and he made the mistake of playing for the turn.
 
Sidilicious said:
We won't be able to chase anything more than a 120 in the final innings. Need to get a lead of at least 100 here.
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India have depth so low scores won't be a problem. The problem will be a batting collapse that occurs in their first innings and leaves them needing to chase 300+ in the final innings. 120 to win in the final innings and India will do it. Each batsman would only need to score 12 runs and yes, they can all be considered all-rounders or tail-enders that can bat.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ash, Jaddu and Kuldeep in full form will be something else at home.

Overseas, the way Kuldeep is showing potential (if he continues this), I think it will be Ash and Jaddu who have to fight for 2nd spinner spot. In fact, Ash is on the firing line.

This is a great problem to have.

All that aside, this pitch has those cracks which can bring that bloody monster O Keefe into play. Right now, its docile for most part but in 4th innings, O Keefe may be unplayable.
Click to expand...

Tbh I've NEVER seen a successful 3 man spin attack where everyone is pulling their weight. One usually ends up being an appendage. Though my knowledge maybe lacking here.

By the very nature of spin oriented wickets you are likely to not see many runs. So if there is such a raging turner of a wicket where you genuinely think that playing 3 spinners is a consideration then most likely 2 good spinners should be enough.

For eg England tried that in the series last year where they went with Ansari, Rashid and Moeen in the hopes that three okay to mediocre spinners would make up for quality spinners and it never worked

Are there any examples in modern times (post 1995)?
 
Bilal7 said:
That first session where India bowled some absolute rubbish will haunt them. This pitch is a tough one to bat on and India only have five batsmen and will be facing a pretty motivated Australian attack. Getting to bowl an hour before the close would be perfect for Australia, regardless of how many more runs they get. Get two wickets and it's a good day's work for the Aussies.
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This pitch has nothing for pacers. India did well by playing extra bowler. Kuldeep yadav is our surprise package, and it has stunned Australia.
 
Bilal7 said:
Left-armers and chinamen are the hot commodities as far as spin bowling is concerned. Off-spin is pretty much dead with Lyon being the second best offie in the world and leg-spinners are never good across formats (barring Warne, of course).
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Yeah...in tougher pitches, you need sidespin to get those wickets.

Wrist spinners can make docile pitches or slight turners look more lethal so they are in demand.

Left armers work better than offies for 2 reasons:

1. Majority of the world is right handed batsmen which brings the arm ball into play (flip it the other way and offies will look better - its no coincidence all offies have great stats against lefties).

2. This is my theory. Left arm finger spinners are all way more accurate than other spinners (haven't yet seen a left arm spinner spray it around) because of the left hand - brain coordination which helps them land the ball where they want.

Don't think off spin is dead per se (Lyon is still the guy for Aus outside Asia) but its scope is very limited on flatties unless bowlers develop the drift, impart sufficient revs to get sidespin and are really on top of the game.
 
Bilal7 said:
India have depth so low scores won't be a problem. The problem will be a batting collapse that occurs in their first innings and leaves them needing to chase 300+ in the final innings. 120 to win in the final innings and India will do it. Each batsman would only need to score 12 runs and yes, they can all be considered all-rounders or tail-enders that can bat.
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Thats a fair point. But if the ball spits and turns in the final session the Aussie spinners will be handful. But, yeah you are right. We could get to even 150'ish. I wouldn't expect anymore then that.
 
Enforcer said:
This pitch has nothing for pacers. India did well by playing extra bowler. Kuldeep yadav is our surprise package, and it has stunned Australia.
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You'll see this when Cummins and Hazlewood bowl. There is a reason why India played Kumar in this match. He never gets picked on anything that doesn't have help for the pacers.
 
will be result for sure.. draw is out of question
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ash, Jaddu and Kuldeep in full form will be something else at home.

Overseas, the way Kuldeep is showing potential (if he continues this), I think it will be Ash and Jaddu who have to fight for 2nd spinner spot. In fact, Ash is on the firing line.

This is a great problem to have.

All that aside, this pitch has those cracks which can bring that bloody monster O Keefe into play. Right now, its docile for most part but in 4th innings, O Keefe may be unplayable.
Click to expand...

Whats been your take on Rahane's captaincy?

I felt like Rahane seems to have a better grasp of field placing and strategy than Kohli.

Though I still prefer Kohli because he brings in aggression and self belief in the players.
 
Sidilicious said:
Whats been your take on Rahane's captaincy.

I felt like Rahane seems to have a better grasp of field placing and strategy than Kohli.

Though I still prefer Kohli because he brings in aggression and self belief in the players.
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Why wasn't Ashwin even considered for captaincy?
 
Slog said:
Tbh I've NEVER seen a successful 3 man spin attack where everyone is pulling their weight. One usually ends up being an appendage. Though my knowledge maybe lacking here.

By the very nature of spin oriented wickets you are likely to not see many runs. So if there is such a raging turner of a wicket where you genuinely think that playing 3 spinners is a consideration then most likely 2 good spinners should be enough.

For eg England tried that in the series last year where they went with Ansari, Rashid and Moeen in the hopes that three okay to mediocre spinners would make up for quality spinners and it never worked

Are there any examples in modern times (post 1995)?
Click to expand...

Not in modern times.

In 60s and 70s, Indian spin trio/quartet used to do very well outside Asia. We used to have a ****** 40+ averaging trundler and then these guys used to bowl mainly in Aus, NZ, Eng and WI. Venkatraghavan was the tight bowler but the rest 3 were main wicket takers and all of them were needed to get batsmen out.

But yeah in recent times, you will hardly see all 3 spinners carrying their weight because usually the 3rd spinner is either underbowled or is too raw.

On a raging turner, there is no need for 3 spinners but on an Asian flatty, it may very well be what's needed. Today, if not for Kuldeep, we would have been in deep deep trouble.

I think India is starting the culture of 3 spinners again. In Vizag and Mohali, all 3 spinners did well. Mumbai, Jayant went off boil (he needs to work on his game on bouncy pitches but then with the emergence of Kuldeep, I think his career would have taken quite a big hit even at home).
 
Raja Danish said:
Indian's are missing kohli and his captaincy.. don't see any result other than Australia's victory.....
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Dont think India are missing Kohli.
a) Kohli was poor with the bat.
b) Rahane's captaincy has been better
and
c) most importantly his replacement Kuldeep turned the match. People were saying Aus will make 600 and declare.
 
Slog said:
Why wasn't Ashwin even considered for captaincy?
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Rahane has been India's vice captain for about a year and a half. At that point, Ashwin was not on top of his test game with either batting or bowling. So Rahane was the natural option.

Also, bowlers rarely get captaincy in India. Kapil was the only one to have an extended stay, and even Kapil was an AR. Only Kumble was a pure bowler who became India's captain in the last 40 years. Even he was only stop gap until Dhoni was prepared captaining tests.
 
Sidilicious said:
Whats been your take on Rahane's captaincy?

I felt like Rahane seems to have a better grasp of field placing and strategy than Kohli.

Though I still prefer Kohli because he brings in aggression and self belief in the players.
Click to expand...

Haven't watched enough to judge him. But heard he was excellent in 2nd session.

But you know...these things happen.

If Kuldeep wasn't playing, we would have been cursing Rahane for some reason or other.

Results cloud judgement like no other.

Kohli is our best bet as leader but tactically he ain't all that. He has made way too many mistakes but the way he led us on Bangalore Day 2....I haven't seen any Indian captain lead us like that. So Kohli the leader mixed in with tactical inputs from others is the best bet imho.
 
Bilal7 said:
That first session where India bowled some absolute rubbish will haunt them. This pitch is a tough one to bat on and India only have five batsmen and will be facing a pretty motivated Australian attack. Getting to bowl an hour before the close would be perfect for Australia, regardless of how many more runs they get. Get two wickets and it's a good day's work for the Aussies.
Click to expand...

Bilal7 said:
You'll see this when Cummins and Hazlewood bowl. There is a reason why India played Kumar in this match. He never gets picked on anything that doesn't have help for the pacers.
Click to expand...

The ball was barely swinging for Bhuvi after first six overs, and because of lush green outfield, there wont be any extravagant reverse swing. Traditionally Dharmashala pitch do aid seam movement. But this is different kind of condition.
 
JattMaula said:
Told you long ago.

Boii forced me out of sabbatical.
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You are bang on target.

I was part of the get on the hype bandwagon but glad to see its real hype. :D

What do you think about Nair for the FUTURE?

Man, he has atrocious consistency issues.

Failed in 12 out of last 13 innings including domestics.

A bit worried reg him in this game.
 
Pakistan had a trio of spinners and Umar Gul as the bowling attack during the 2012 whitewash of England. Can't believe some of the Pakistani supporters here don't remember this. Hafeez was very effective against their left-arm openers, Abdur Rehman kept things tight and made batsmen commit mistakes and Ajmal was Ajmal, destroyer of worlds. Cheema and Junaid bowled maybe 15 overs between them in the entire series.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You are bang on target.

I was part of the get on the hype bandwagon but glad to see its real hype. :D

What do you think about Nair for the FUTURE?

Man, he has atrocious consistency issues.

Failed in 12 out of last 13 innings including domestics.

A bit worried reg him in this game.
Click to expand...

Nair has VVS syndrome. No technical deficiency but casual under performance.
 
Enforcer said:
The ball was barely swinging for Bhuvi after first six overs, and because of lush green outfield, there wont be any extravagant reverse swing. Traditionally Dharmashala pitch do aid seam movement. But this is different kind of condition.
Click to expand...

There is enough pace in the pitch to make the Aussies happy. The bounce has also been good like Umesh has shown thus far. A trundler like Kumar won't be extracting any of that however.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pakistan had a trio of spinners and Umar Gul as the bowling attack during the 2012 whitewash of England. Can't believe some of the Pakistani supporters here don't remember this. Hafeez was very effective against their left-arm openers, Abdur Rehman kept things tight and made batsmen commit mistakes and Ajmal was Ajmal, destroyer of worlds. Cheema and Junaid bowled maybe 15 overs between them in the entire series.
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I think Slog is referring to test cricket.

Pakistan did use 3 man spin attack in ODIs for a long time this decade.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I think Slog is referring to test cricket.

Pakistan did use 3 man spin attack in ODIs for a long time this decade.
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This was test cricket. Hafeez was a regular bowler for us during 2011-2014, but never moreso than in that series.
 
Bilal7 said:
This was test cricket. Hafeez was a regular bowler for us during 2011-2014, but never moreso than in that series.
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Yeah I forgot too.

Maybe the AR in Hafeez makes us not look that way compared to Jayant being a bowler first.

Pak did have 3 spinners too.
 
India had Ashwin, Jadeja and Mishra in Nagpur on an absolute rank-turner, the worst of the lot, and all three were crucial to getting the win.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pakistan had a trio of spinners and Umar Gul as the bowling attack during the 2012 whitewash of England. Can't believe some of the Pakistani supporters here don't remember this. Hafeez was very effective against their left-arm openers, Abdur Rehman kept things tight and made batsmen commit mistakes and Ajmal was Ajmal, destroyer of worlds. Cheema and Junaid bowled maybe 15 overs between them in the entire series.
Click to expand...
Hafeez didn't bowl enough to be called a full time spinner and was clearly the support act

Would he have made the team if he was purely a bowler? No
 
Pitch is still nice and flat (except the rare balls) for now. Gotta make it count in 1st innings.

Its Kuldeep who is making it look like a turner.

Get him back on.
 
Bilal7 said:
There is enough pace in the pitch to make the Aussies happy. The bounce has also been good like Umesh has shown thus far. A trundler like Kumar won't be extracting any of that however.
Click to expand...

Bhuvi isn't trundling this match. He even touched 145 here. Average speeds are also good. Bounce is there but no swing. There are cracks which would open up as game progresses.
 
Bilal7 said:
There is enough pace in the pitch to make the Aussies happy. The bounce has also been good like Umesh has shown thus far. A trundler like Kumar won't be extracting any of that however.
Click to expand...

Bhuvi was not exactly trundling. He was bowling around 140ks with top speed of 89mph. And pace of the pitch won't trouble us. Most of the Australian pitches that we have played, on our last tour there, were actually quicker than this. And we did well on them with the bat .
 
Wrist spinners are always exciting to watch. This kid should have played from 1st Test.
 
Those who were questioning india's selection of five bowlers on this track, might have been eating humble pies somewhere. This is a master stoke to have kuldeep yadav on this pitch. Australia did their homework against Ashwin and jadeja, but now they have no time to analyze kuldeep yadav.

Full marks to kumble and team-management for this gamble.
 
MMHS said:
Wrist spinners are always exciting to watch. This kid should have played from 1st Test.
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No this was the right time. Now Aussies have no time to analyze Kuldeep's bowling and come up with a plan.
 
Enforcer said:
Those who were questioning india's selection of five bowlers on this track, might have been eating humble pies somewhere. This is a master stoke to have kuldeep yadav on this pitch. Australia did their homework against Ashwin and jadeja, but now they have no time to analyze kuldeep yadav.

Full marks to kumble and team-management for this gamble.
Click to expand...

But it could still bite us in the back. We could be batsman short. We would need at least a lead of 100 to ensure we don't chase more than 150 in the final innings.
 
LA Chinaman is a rare breed in cricket - suddenly, we have 3 in recent times.
 
Rahane has no intention to taking the new ball? Umesh is still bowling with just 3 overs left. Wade looks all set to score big, he has playeed really well here.
 
Sidilicious said:
But it could still bite us in the back. We could be batsman short. We would need at least a lead of 100 to ensure we don't chase more than 150 in the final innings.
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And do you think a cushion of an extra batsman , someone like a debutant shreyas Iyer would have made any difference. we have replaced an out of form Kohli with a performing spinner like Kuldeep yadav.

Do you know why 3rd test ended up with a draw? Because we had tired Ashwin and jadeja as our frontline spinners. This was extra-ordinarily long season and we needed another bowler to aid Ashwin-jaddu.
 
Enforcer said:
And do you think a cushion of an extra batsman , someone like a debutant shreyas Iyer would have made any difference. we have replaced an out of form Kohli with a performing spinner like Kuldeep yadav.

Do you know why 3rd test ended up with a draw? Because we had tired Ashwin and jadeja as our frontline spinners. This was extra-ordinarily long season and we needed another bowler to aid Ashwin-jaddu.
Click to expand...

I never said that playing Kuldeep was the wrong decision. But I understand those who think that going with 5 front line bowlers was OTT.
 
A great come back by IND, probably match is still 50-50.
 
Rahl survives an over of doom, and India end the day on a happy note, considering what had happened in the first session. Kuldeep the star of the day for India, while Smith as usual continued his bradmanesque form against India.
 
The match has ebbed and flowed on the first day hasnt it, Its what you want to see in a test match. We will see how India get on in their first innings, australia will be glad there will be something in it for the fast bowlers cos thats where their strength lies and india will be without Kohli. Lets see how this goes, it looks engrossing already.
 
Enforcer said:
And do you think a cushion of an extra batsman , someone like a debutant shreyas Iyer would have made any difference. we have replaced an out of form Kohli with a performing spinner like Kuldeep yadav.

Do you know why 3rd test ended up with a draw? Because we had tired Ashwin and jadeja as our frontline spinners. This was extra-ordinarily long season and we needed another bowler to aid Ashwin-jaddu.
Click to expand...

We needed Kuldeep in place of Ishant in last Test. Not at the cost of a batsman.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Ominous signs. Indians getting their excuses ready. :)) [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Came out in full force today, only to get another phainty from Smith. :))
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I have red aussie handprints still visible after this spanking :)) honours are slightly even with IND ahead by a bit
 
So it was the LEGGIE which did all the damage :afridi am reading there was not as much turn on offer so he must have made great use of the bounce by setting up the batsman with back hand variations
 
shaz619 said:
So it was the LEGGIE which did all the damage :afridi am reading there was not as much turn on offer so he must have made great use of the bounce by setting up the batsman with back hand variations
Click to expand...

There was not much turn on offer barring the odd balls that turned.

Kuldeep gave the ball flight, got it to dip and turned it off the surface often so much so that the pitch looked like a turner when he bowled and looked flat when Ash and Jaddu bowled.

When Maxwell smashed him for a boundary, he unleashed a lethal googly, turned it a mile and castled him.

Watch the replay of today's play. You will love it.

If this is how he usually bowls, he is going places.


[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]
 
Last edited:
The dip Kuldeep got today was phenomenal. Lulled Handscomb and Cummins into driving and beat them for fight.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
There was not much turn on offer barring the odd balls that turned.

Kuldeep gave the ball flight, got it to dip and turned it off the surface often so much so that the pitch looked like a turner when he bowled and looked flat when Ash and Jaddu bowled.

When Maxwell smashed him for a boundary, he unleashed a lethal googly, turned it a mile and castled him.

Watch the replay of today's play. You will love it.

If this is how he usually bowls, he is going places.


[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]
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Will have to find the highlights, nothing is more beautiful then watching a leg spinner at his best; they are a unique breed though and to find such beauties which are consistent is very very rare given the art
 
shaz619 said:
So it was the LEGGIE which did all the damage :afridi am reading there was not as much turn on offer so he must have made great use of the bounce by setting up the batsman with back hand variations
Click to expand...

He was flighting the ball really well and got it to dip. Also from the 1st over he got good turn off the surface consistently while Ashwin hardly turned the ball and Jadeja only turned few.

But what i think made the difference was the inability to pick his googly. Apart from Smith and Wade no one was able to read his variations.
 
So I end up going to sleep and India turns out to play.........We were getting killed until Lunch and I wake up 300 all done , Mr. Chinaman dishing out Mr. noodles to the Aussie's ! Need to catch up on the highlights
 
Square Drive said:
Those drooling over Dharamsala probably haven't been to California.

Besides, Team India really isn't finding Dharamsala to be so beautiful at the moment!
Click to expand...

Wait What ? Whaat ? You are comparing California to Dharamshala ? Apples and Oranges bruv...

If your premise is based upon Comparison then I'm sure you haven't been to Dharamshala yet.
Or is it the Monasteries in California and no, Namaste Yoga doesn't count , or the similar population Size ( 38.8 million in Cali vs 56000 in Dharamshala ) or the Traffic and Pollution confusing you.

I just can't even ...
 
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