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India need to revamp their middle-order or face humiliation in the 2019 World Cup

austerlitz

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Everyone of this rotten middle order needs to be thrown out root and branch.

Rayudu
Dhoni
Karthik
Yadav

Need to play these players -

Pant
Rahul
Iyer
Shaw
Gill

and find out who can fit in.
 
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For Karthik, Rayudu and Jadhav. The selectors must shut the doors man! Recycling the same TTF’s every couple of years is gonna do more harm than good.
 
Jadhav and karthik, one of them will book it at 6.

Pandya and Jadeja to keep switching at 7.

Rahul and Rayudu to fight for no.4.

Dhoni will be no.5.
 
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav/ Rayudu
Pant/ MSD
Pandya/ Jadeja
Bhuvi
Kuli
Chahal/ Shami
Bumrah

This would be my XI for WC 2019, unfortunately it's too late to bring in any new batters to our middle order.
 
Very glad that the matches vs Afghanistan and this final have thoroughly exposed this useless middle order. Everone knows Raydu, DK and Dhoni will let us down unless they are batting with someone from Top 3. But the selectors seem to have a different assessment. None of the experts have the guts to publicly criticise Dhoni and his snail pace. Even today, they were calling Jadeja irresponsible for getting out but nothing on Dhoni.

Golden opportunity for Pant in the two tests vs WI to score runs and make Dhoni's place untenable. Enough of the facade of calmness that Dhoni mafia keeps repeating.
 
Let's not exaggerate and talk about humiliation. With Kohli back, India should easily make the semis.
 
Very glad that the matches vs Afghanistan and this final have thoroughly exposed this useless middle order. Everone knows Raydu, DK and Dhoni will let us down unless they are batting with someone from Top 3. But the selectors seem to have a different assessment. None of the experts have the guts to publicly criticise Dhoni and his snail pace. Even today, they were calling Jadeja irresponsible for getting out but nothing on Dhoni.

Golden opportunity for Pant in the two tests vs WI to score runs and make Dhoni's place untenable. Enough of the facade of calmness that Dhoni mafia keeps repeating.

It was exposed even in CT, exposed in other ODIs as well. But they just don't do anything about it.
 
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav/ Rayudu
Pant/ MSD
Pandya/ Jadeja
Bhuvi
Kuli
Chahal/ Shami
Bumrah

This would be my XI for WC 2019, unfortunately it's too late to bring in any new batters to our middle order.

No Raydu or Jadhav please. Give Gill a run from now on. Jadhav cannot last a tournement with that dodgy hamstring, so have to look beyond him.
 
Kohli coming back, and Dhoni being replaced by Pant are no-brainers. KL Rahul needs a consistent run too.
 
India have a strong top order and a very good bowling attack. The main problem is clearly the middle order. There seems to be talanted batsmen in India who aren't being given a chance. India have wasted too much time on Kathrik,Jahdav,and Rayuddu. They need to back KL,Pant,etc. Otherwise there chances of winning the WC will go down a notch.
 
Going by that Shastri interview, unlikely to see any changes. Not a word about these middle order failures
 
For the love of God what humiliation this hack dhoni still needs inorder for him to see the writing on the wall.
 
I would want Shaw or Gill in DK's place.

For the worldcup

Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Rahul
Shaw/Gill/Jadhav (Jadhav has shown enough to be a useful 6th bowler. So he will be in the squad).
Pandya/Jaddu
Dhoni (He is done, but he is here to stay. So Pant has to wait)
Pandya/Jaddu
Kuldeep
BK
Chahal/Khaleel/Shami
Bumrah

The above team will be very competitive. I am not sold on Jaddu in English conditions. He will get spanked. But hard to replace his fielding. Pandya is a very good fielder too. It depends on who is in form.

I am also not so sure about Chahal. He gets tonked easily and when it happens, it will hard for him to comeback.

KL Rahul needs to be persisted. He will come good.
 
Kohli at 3, Rahul/Gill/Rayudu/Karthik at 4 and Pant at 5 should be our middle order
 
Will the Indian selectors ever wake up?

If the performance in the last 2 games doesn't send shock waves through the selection panel then I don't know what will?
It's frustrating because it's not like we don't have players to do the job, they just don't get selected and even if they are they don't get in the playing 11, case in point KL Rahul. Where are Rishabh Pant, Shubhman gill, prithwi Shaw?
The less spoken about Dhoni the better, I have accepted that he will be a part of the world cup squad. Even someone like Raina is better than the mediocrity that are Dinesh karthik and Ambati Rayadu. Seriously how hard is it to play this 11?

Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Rahul
Pant
Pandya
Dhoni
Jadeja
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Bumrah
 
I think Indian fans don't realize they don't have many options. Msd, rayudu and Karthik are the best you got. And this is not the time to try out new player with World Cup looming.
 
I think Indian fans don't realize they don't have many options. Msd, rayudu and Karthik are the best you got. And this is not the time to try out new player with World Cup looming.

Naw we do, but ofcourese u think otherwise.
 
For the World Cup:

Rohit
Dhawan (or give a few games to Shaw before the world cup and see if he can be any good there, he can't be tried directly there)
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav (if we can make him exercise his hamstring everyday to the end of world cup, else Pant)
MSD (he's going nowhere)
Pandya
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Jadeja / Chahal
Bumrah
 
I think Indian fans don't realize they don't have many options. Msd, rayudu and Karthik are the best you got. And this is not the time to try out new player with World Cup looming.

Pant, Gill, Shaw, Iyer and even Raina I'm sure will pretty much guaranteed do better than the likes of DK, Rayudu and Dhoni.
 
In england we must go with 3 pace bowlers. Bumrah, bhuvi and khalil.
Lets play jadeja, pandya and kuldeep/chahal.
4 batsman rohit, dhawan, kohli, rahul.
1 keeper dhoni.

This will b good combination in england.
Although i will love to have pant in place of dhoni.
 
1. Rohit Sharma (captain)
2. Shikhar Dhawan
3. KL Rahul
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant (wk)
6. Kedar Jadhav
7. Hardik Pandya
8. Krunal Pandya/Ravi Jadeja/Khaleel Ahmed (Based on conditions)
9. Bhuvneshwar Kumar
10. Kuldeep Yadav
11. Jasprit Bumrah

This is the XI I'd go with for the WC.
 
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1. Rohit
2. Dhawan
3. Kohli
4. KL rahul
5. Pandya
6. Dhoni / pant
7. Jadeja / jadhav
8. Kuldeep / chahal
9. Bhuvi
10. Bumrah
11. Khalil

This will b balanced 11 according to me.
 
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KL Rahul needs a consistent run too.
Don't worry about Rahul, he himself doesn't want to play anywhere else apart from opening. Even if that means hardly playing any LoI cricket as Rohit-Dhawan hardly ever get injured.

At this rate, Shaw will leave him far behind. Such a waste of talent. However he has only himself to blame.
 
Don't understand the underrating of Jadhav.

Best spin bowler on flat tracks.

I genuinely think he has potential like Mohammad Hafeez of Pakistan albeit no chucking.
 
Like some posters said, love it or leave it or live with it - there will not be any changes in the Indian team. The Asia cup team+kohli is what fans will get. I see changes only after a wc debacle - which I am sure about, no bitterness but matter-of-fact. I resigned to the fact that we will not win or even reach wc finals next year.
 
It's difficult to persuade people like Kohli and shastri objectively, they have this unique sense of superiority complex where they think no can question them. No doubt India won't win the WC with this team but having said that don't expect too many changes even post the WC because of following reason - Thanks to format of the world cup and the amazing consistency of our top 3 means India will win 6-7 of 9 matches and get through semis. So bare minimum they will get to semis and even if they loose post that, don't expect shastri and Kohli to call the tournament a failure. They will talk about it as an accomplishment that we reached the semis.
 
Don't understand the underrating of Jadhav.

Best spin bowler on flat tracks.

I genuinely think he has potential like Mohammad Hafeez of Pakistan albeit no chucking.

Do Indians want a Hafeez clone? Bad days for them if they do.
 
Do Indians want a Hafeez clone? Bad days for them if they do.

I guess poster who compared Hafeez with Jadhav is not Indian supporter.

Very rare any Indian fan wants their player like to be from rival team except Waseem may be.
 
For the World Cup:

Rohit
Dhawan (or give a few games to Shaw before the world cup and see if he can be any good there, he can't be tried directly there)
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav (if we can make him exercise his hamstring everyday to the end of world cup, else Pant)
MSD (he's going nowhere)
Pandya
Bhuvi
Kuldeep
Jadeja / Chahal
Bumrah

is the second best batsman in the team, don't disturb it!
 
I would love a team as follows for ODIs

Rohit
Shikhar
Virat
Rahul
Rishabh
Mayank
Suryakumar
Nitish
Kedar/Manan
Hardik
Kuldeep
Yajuvendra
Bumrah
Bhuvi
Khaleel
Washington
 
If at all we are looking for experience in the middle order, better to play Pujara at 3. Any day better than Rayudu DK
 
Its too late ringing in changes now. I think Kohli and Shastri has locked the team more or less apart from couple of positions. Far from ideal but have to live with this for the Worldcup. The team will have a new look post WC and post Dhoni era.

1.Rohit
2.Dhawan
3.Kohli
4.DK
5.Dhoni
6.Jadhav
7.Pandya
8.Bhuvi
9.Kuldeep
10.Chahal
11.Bumrah

12. Rahul ( backup opener, will not be considered for No.4)
13. Rayudu or Manish Pandey ( one of theme will be backup for No.4)
14. Jadeja
15. Umesh Yadav

Iyer, Shaw, Gill and Pant will get their chances post WC. No time to groom them at all.
 
Its too late ringing in changes now. I think Kohli and Shastri has locked the team more or less apart from couple of positions. Far from ideal but have to live with this for the Worldcup. The team will have a new look post WC and post Dhoni era.

1.Rohit
2.Dhawan
3.Kohli
4.DK
5.Dhoni
6.Jadhav
7.Pandya
8.Bhuvi
9.Kuldeep
10.Chahal
11.Bumrah

12. Rahul ( backup opener, will not be considered for No.4)
13. Rayudu or Manish Pandey ( one of theme will be backup for No.4)
14. Jadeja
15. Umesh Yadav


I would love to have Rahul everytime in playing XI. But the only way Rahul can be in team if Kohli and Rahul become flexible. If there is early wicket, Rahul can come. If the opening is good, Kohli can come and do his thing. That will give team 4 outstanding batsman in top 4 positions and more or less we won't need Dhoni or Jadhav batting that much.
 
I would like to see a completely young side in the ODIs vs Windies .. Something like the following would be great



Shaw

Rahul (C)

Mayank

Shubman

Shreyas

Nitish Rana

Rishabh (WK1)

Sanju (WK2)

Krunal (AR1)

Washington (AR2)

Markande

Khaleel

Nagarkoti

Sran

Siraj



This will help us get a good idea of the bench strength and will also let the youngsters play without any pressure while also taking the responsibilities on themselves.
 
Pant Gill, Shaw, Iyer and even Raina I'm sure will pretty much guaranteed do better than the likes of DK, Rayudu and Dhoni.

Why is everyone so desperate to bring in Pant for Dhoni? Dhoni offers 10 times more value than Pant.

Pant averages less than 29 in List A cricket. Why does everyone think he'll be a success in ODIs?

Gill is nowhere near ready. And most importantly he is an opening batsman. Gill and Shaw does not fit into the ODI team.

Iyer should be permanent no 4 for the WI series.
 
Nothing will change, may be Rahul will come at 4, in place of Rayudu.
Rahul has himself refused to bat anywhere else apart from opening. There you go. Good to have sussed out a softie.
 
Rayudu, DK and Dhoni are like termites they've slowly eaten away Indian cricket team during last few years.
 
Why is everyone so desperate to bring in Pant for Dhoni? Dhoni offers 10 times more value than Pant.

Pant averages less than 29 in List A cricket. Why does everyone think he'll be a success in ODIs?

Gill is nowhere near ready. And most importantly he is an opening batsman. Gill and Shaw does not fit into the ODI team.

Iyer should be permanent no 4 for the WI series.

Well. Thala averages mighty 18 this year
 
Why is everyone so desperate to bring in Pant for Dhoni? Dhoni offers 10 times more value than Pant.

Pant averages less than 29 in List A cricket. Why does everyone think he'll be a success in ODIs?

Gill is nowhere near ready. And most importantly he is an opening batsman. Gill and Shaw does not fit into the ODI team.

Iyer should be permanent no 4 for the WI series.

I'm not bringing him in place of Dhoni, check my line up in the OP he can come in place of Rayudu and karthik easily though.
 
Why is everyone so desperate to bring in Pant for Dhoni? Dhoni offers 10 times more value than Pant.

Pant averages less than 29 in List A cricket. Why does everyone think he'll be a success in ODIs?

Gill is nowhere near ready. And most importantly he is an opening batsman. Gill and Shaw does not fit into the ODI team.

Iyer should be permanent no 4 for the WI series.

Shaw is an opener but Gill is a middle order player and could definitely be accomodated in the scheme of things.
 
DK has had enough chances, I think he won't be looked at any more.

A lot of people are clamouring for Pant to replace Dhoni. But I would much rather have Dhoni than Pant - who is half the keeper that Dhoni is. Not to mention he has a List A avg of 29. I don't think I've ever seen Indian fans trying so hard to get a batsman in the team who averages less than 30.

No 4 has to be decided between Iyer, Pandey and Rayadu.

KL Rahul is an opener. He has been an opener since his U-12 days and he is comfortable as an opener. I have no problem keeping him as a reserve opener.

If, by chance Rohit or Dhawan get injuried before the SF, we will be thanking our stars that we have someone like KL on the bench.

The trickiest decision to make, in my opinion is between Chahal and Jadeja. Chahal is definitely a bettee wicket taking option but Jadeja adds with the bat and saves 25 runs on the field every match.
 
If the choices for no. 4 are to be chosen amongst the ones you listed then it definitely shows your cricketing wisdom or rather lack of it.
 
If the choices for no. 4 are to be chosen amongst the ones you listed then it definitely shows your cricketing wisdom or rather lack of it.

Well it doesn't matter, now, does it? I am not a selector. And for the good of Indian cricket, I hope neither are you. :)

But just to humor you, who are you candidates for the no 4 slot?
 
Well. Thala averages mighty 18 this year

Whom would you want in the side? A 20-year old keeper averaging 30 with no experience, average keeping skills and no WC experience?

Or a keeper averaging 20, who is the best LOI keeper in the world, the sharpest tactician in the camp and currently the only captain in world cricket who knows how to win a WC?

I am a huge fan of Pant and think he is going to be one of our biggest players in the coming years. But it's clear that he still hasn't figured out his game in the 50-over format. He is not ready.
 
Because of the selfishness of some players (*cough cough* Dhoni) and the ineptitude and complete cluelessness of the selectors and management there’s hardly any time left to let some new guys settle into the side before the WC. They have done this deliberately so that their favourite players and buddies can stay in the side.
 
India need to get rid of Dhoni. They are going in with 10 players and a DRS expert at the moment. India should back themselves as the favourites for the World Cup but they'll be kicking themselves if an important game comes down to the middle order and they have to depend on Dhoni the great.

Dhoni is one of the greatest ever in ODIs but right now he'd struggle against an U19 team.
 
Shaw is an opener but Gill is a middle order player and could definitely be accomodated in the scheme of things.

Not really bro. Gill played 1 down in the U-19 WC but he's been an opener since his junior cricket days. He opens for Punjab in List A.

That is the problem we are facing right now.

Mayank Agarwal, Shaw, KL Rahul, Gill - all of them are opening batsmen.

We are struggling to find proper middle order players. That is the real issue Indian cricket is facing right now. A shortage of middle-order batsmen.
 
I think Indian fans don't realize they don't have many options. Msd, rayudu and Karthik are the best you got. And this is not the time to try out new player with World Cup looming.

And you know this how exactly? Do you even follow Indian domestics?
 
Whom would you want in the side? A 20-year old keeper averaging 30 with no experience, average keeping skills and no WC experience?

Or a keeper averaging 20, who is the best LOI keeper in the world, the sharpest tactician in the camp and currently the only captain in world cricket who knows how to win a WC?

I am a huge fan of Pant and think he is going to be one of our biggest players in the coming years. But it's clear that he still hasn't figured out his game in the 50-over format. He is not ready.

I would take a 30 of 20 balls than a 20 of 40 balls. Lets not dwelve into the "Dhoni bring other things to the table" narrative. That is utter crap to hide his incompetency. A player has to justify his position as a player himself first and then we can ponder over his "sharp tactics". It is pathetic to hold onto 2011 exploits even now. Move on. Zaheer Khan was setting fields for bowlers then. Did it make the management to select him even when he non-performed under the facade of sharp tactics?
 
I'm not bringing him in place of Dhoni, check my line up in the OP he can come in place of Rayudu and karthik easily though.

Yeah DK is done for sure. Time to at least have Pant in the squad in his place.

Although I still think he hasn't figured out with 50-over game yet. He hasn't yet learnt the art of pacing and building an innings. That is the most important skill of a middle order batsman, to finish the game - not merely hitting huge sixes.
 
I would take a 30 of 20 balls than a 20 of 40 balls. Lets not dwelve into the "Dhoni bring other things to the table" narrative. That is utter crap to hide his incompetency. A player has to justify his position as a player himself first and then we can ponder over his "sharp tactics". It is pathetic to hold onto 2011 exploits even now. Move on. Zaheer Khan was setting fields for bowlers then. Did it make the management to select him even when he non-performed under the facade of sharp tactics?

A 20 ball 30 would have lost you the game last night. Do you realise that?

I never agree with @Bhaag Viru @Bhaag but I have to agree with him here that IPL has corrupted the thinking of fans as well.

It's a 50 overs game! It's not T20. No batsman should be in the ODI team if he is only good for 20 balls. That's unpardonable.

If a middle order batsman cannot finish off games, then he isn't of much use. And Pant is nowhere near that yet. I don't blame him, he is 21. It will take time for him to develop that aspect of his game.

Even in the Eng tests you saw that he only has 1 gear. That works in T20. It does not work in ODIs.
 
Sorry to say battler but your XI is not good enough.

Bhuvi is a liability (regardless of his batting ability).

Dhoni is well....detrimental .

Pant, Pandya, Dhoni and Jaddu is a brittle middle order, stability point of view.

We hav to try out a few middle order bats fast. If we only hav top order contenders, then try them out in middle order.
 
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Yeah DK is done for sure. Time to at least have Pant in the squad in his place.

Although I still think he hasn't figured out with 50-over game yet. He hasn't yet learnt the art of pacing and building an innings. That is the most important skill of a middle order batsman, to finish the game - not merely hitting huge sixes.

He needs to be backed the same way Rohit was, he definitely has ability but just needs to understand his game better which I'm sure he will the more he plays.
 
A 20 ball 30 would have lost you the game last night. Do you realise that?

I never agree with @Bhaag Viru @Bhaag but I have to agree with him here that IPL has corrupted the thinking of fans as well.

It's a 50 overs game! It's not T20. No batsman should be in the ODI team if he is only good for 20 balls. That's unpardonable.

If a middle order batsman cannot finish off games, then he isn't of much use. And Pant is nowhere near that yet. I don't blame him, he is 21. It will take time for him to develop that aspect of his game.

Even in the Eng tests you saw that he only has 1 gear. That works in T20. It does not work in ODIs.

How could you say 20 ball 30 would've lost the match? It couldve moved the scoreboard faster and bowlers would be under pressure. Dhoni innings helped bowlers to create pressure, slowing down the run rate alarmingly and when he got out, India still required 60 odd runs. The incoming batsmen were immediately under pressure. India won despite Dhoni, not because of. And everything about IPL is not bad.
 
A 20 ball 30 would have lost you the game last night. Do you realise that?

I never agree with @Bhaag Viru @Bhaag but I have to agree with him here that IPL has corrupted the thinking of fans as well.

It's a 50 overs game! It's not T20. No batsman should be in the ODI team if he is only good for 20 balls. That's unpardonable.

If a middle order batsman cannot finish off games, then he isn't of much use. And Pant is nowhere near that yet. I don't blame him, he is 21. It will take time for him to develop that aspect of his game.

Even in the Eng tests you saw that he only has 1 gear. That works in T20. It does not work in ODIs.

Dhoni is a lower-middle order batsman and whose job is to bat at higher strike-rate. Building long innings is left to the job of #3 and #4 players. Pant is a perfect fit at #5 who can give you quick 50s.
 
Sorry to say battler but your XI is not good enough.

Bhuvi is a liability (regardless of his batting ability).

Dhoni is well....cancer.

Pant, Pandya, Dhoni and Jaddu is a brittle middle order, stability point of view.

We hav to try out a few middle order bats fast. If we only hav top order contenders, then try them out in middle order.

I'd back the top 4, one of Sharma,Dhawan, kohli or Rahul to bat through 90% of the games. Remaining 10% well Dhoni can provide the stability and Pant and Pandya can hit around him. Inspite of dhoni absolutely useless with the bat we need him for his captaincy and keeping skill. He's still 10 times the limited overs captain kohli is and his presence will definitely help India with regards to field placings and bowling changes.
I would still go with bhuvi over someone like khaleel (who is very raw) and shami (who is injury prone and totally lost any batting ability he had). These players might not be the best in the respective department but when put together they add up the balance of the team.
I definitely feel this is the best xi we can put up in the wc next year. Only other option I see is Raina in place of Pant.
 
I think Indian fans don't realize they don't have many options. Msd, rayudu and Karthik are the best you got. And this is not the time to try out new player with World Cup looming.

Disagree

Dhoni is past his prime
And the thing is he is not failing but playing such slow knocks which is putting pressure on the batsman on the other end and allowing the opposition to get on top.

He is failing to rotate strike against spinners for a long time and has SR in 60s against them post 2015 World Cup which is totally unacceptable
His average in last few years is decent,I think it's around 41 since 2015 but that's mainly because of minnow bashing
it's not like that he is in bad form but he has just doesn't posses the ability now

No newcomer would do any worse than him
 
A 20 ball 30 would have lost you the game last night. Do you realise that?

I never agree with @Bhaag Viru @Bhaag but I have to agree with him here that IPL has corrupted the thinking of fans as well.

It's a 50 overs game! It's not T20. No batsman should be in the ODI team if he is only good for 20 balls. That's unpardonable.

If a middle order batsman cannot finish off games, then he isn't of much use. And Pant is nowhere near that yet. I don't blame him, he is 21. It will take time for him to develop that aspect of his game.

Even in the Eng tests you saw that he only has 1 gear. That works in T20. It does not work in ODIs.

So picking up his list A career of 29 to build a case that he's only good for 20 balls is utter non sense. The same guy also has a first class average of 50 at a strike rate of 90+. With or without IPL, common sense is not so common I guess
 
Dhoni is a lower-middle order batsman and whose job is to bat at higher strike-rate. Building long innings is left to the job of #3 and #4 players. Pant is a perfect fit at #5 who can give you quick 50s.

What you are saying works in T20s. Not in ODIs.

A middle order batsman's job is to finish the innings.

Ideally I would like Dhoni to bat at 4 and have a strokemaker at no 5. But Pant doesn't give me that confidence because he hasn't yet learnt how to stick around for a long time in 50-over games.

Pant is a brilliant talent and I can understand why so many fans are so eager to fast-track him into the ODI squad. But I have seen his List A innings in the ongoing Vinay Hazare and he is not ready for that format yet. I am 100% sure of it.
 
So picking up his list A career of 29 to build a case that he's only good for 20 balls is utter non sense. The same guy also has a first class average of 50 at a strike rate of 90+. With or without IPL, common sense is not so common I guess

Just because he has a great FC record what makes you think he has understood the 50-over game?

Dhawan is a beast in ODIs. He has power-game and everything. So why is he a dud in T20s?

The mindset and tactical awareness for different formats are very different. They are not transferable like you think.

Forget about "Pant" for a second and think about this - if I was trying to push for someone with a List A avg of 29, would you feel confident enough that this player will succeed at the international level?
 
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How about trying Krunal Pandya & Krishanappa Gowtham?

Krunal,Hardik & Gowtham are the 3 best sloggers we have in the country who can also bowl
They can bat at 6,7 & 8 which would mean we will have depth in batting and also 6 genuine bowling options
 
Fact is Dhoni is a big failure in any form of cricket he plays these days. He is so arrogant that despite traveling with Jharkhand Ranji team, he never plays any FC cricket. No wonder he is worse than a tailender during last few years.
 
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