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India v South Africa | 2nd Test | Bangalore | Nov 14-18, 2015 | Match Thread

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Anchorman said:
Maybe wait until the game finishes? He obviously thought Jadeja and Ashwin would be enough to restrict the Saffers to a reasonable total - which they did.

The management probably wanted to strengthen the lower-order and if Binny plays valuable cameos in both innings then his selection will be vindicated.
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#240
 
Anchorman said:
Maybe wait until the game finishes? He obviously thought Jadeja and Ashwin would be enough to restrict the Saffers to a reasonable total - which they did.

The management probably wanted to strengthen the lower-order and if Binny plays valuable cameos in both innings then his selection will be vindicated.
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They probably looking to play Binny as third pacer outside and thus giving him more games. He is in plan for next WC .
 
World number one team and South Africa started crying hoarse about pitches even before the test series started meant they had already lost half the battle even before it got started especially the mental aspect of the game
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
End result is important but not everything as it doesn't indicate how things are in reality.

If we had 3 quality pacers who can be relied upon, I don't mind that move. I would praise it too.

But we have to understand our limitation.

If Ishant and Aaron can't get through in pitch, Binny won't make that big a difference. And unlike overseas spinners can keep it tight and come into play the moment pitch spins.

I love Kohli's attitude and approach but I would like him to make better decisions. He did the same with Rohit over Pujara in SL decision. If not for some injuries in SL, Pujara would be warming bench now.
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I remember even Dhoni having a lot of beginner's luck when he started captaincy.
Some of his questionable moves started to work but then what happend after that? Luck ran out and his captaincy in tests was exposed.
Similar thing will happen to kohli if he takes mindless decisions like playing Binny in a test lol.
 
battler said:
I remember even Dhoni having a lot of beginner's luck when he started captaincy.
Some of his questionable moves started to work but then what happend after that? Luck ran out and his captaincy in tests was exposed.
Similar thing will happen to kohli if he takes mindless decisions like playing Binny in a test lol.
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Kohli's real test will be when India tour England, SA or Australia. Strategic mistakes won't cost home matches because the spinners can cover most of the mistakes. But Ashwin and Jadeja won't be as effective outside Asia, that is when even small mistakes begin to take a big toll on the team.
 
battler said:
I remember even Dhoni having a lot of beginner's luck when he started captaincy.
Some of his questionable moves started to work but then what happend after that? Luck ran out and his captaincy in tests was exposed.
Similar thing will happen to kohli if he takes mindless decisions like playing Binny in a test lol.
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Agreed. Binny's selection is laughable and has no merit whether we thrash SA here or not.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
End result is important but not everything as it doesn't indicate how things are in reality.

If we had 3 quality pacers who can be relied upon, I don't mind that move. I would praise it too.

But we have to understand our limitation.

If Ishant and Aaron can't get through in pitch, Binny won't make that big a difference. And unlike overseas spinners can keep it tight and come into play the moment pitch spins.

I love Kohli's attitude and approach but I would like him to make better decisions. He did the same with Rohit over Pujara in SL decision. If not for some injuries in SL, Pujara would be warming bench now.
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Why are you completely ignoring the fact that Binny can be handy with the bat? I know he's not Bradman but he can be the difference between a score of 200 and 260.
 
IndianWillow said:
Kohli's real test will be when India tour England, SA or Australia. Strategic mistakes won't cost home matches because the spinners can cover most of the mistakes. But Ashwin and Jadeja won't be as effective outside Asia, that is when even small mistakes begin to take a big toll on the team.
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Even in asia we shouldn't be making mistakes like binny in the test 11 anyway. Our management should always look to play the best 11 - home or away.
 
IndianWillow said:
Kohli's real test will be when India tour England, SA or Australia. Strategic mistakes won't cost home matches because the spinners can cover most of the mistakes. But Ashwin and Jadeja won't be as effective outside Asia, that is when even small mistakes begin to take a big toll on the team.
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Australia will be the most brutal test.
As you are seeing with what is happening with Nz currently that a slight error in length and you will go the distance.
 
IndianWillow said:
India is expected to win these matches at home. Kohli will be tested when India steps outside again.
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Against SA? What happened last time? What happened in ODIs? There is no need to put down a new captain who is doing good
 
battler said:
I remember even Dhoni having a lot of beginner's luck when he started captaincy.
Some of his questionable moves started to work but then what happend after that? Luck ran out and his captaincy in tests was exposed.
Similar thing will happen to kohli if he takes mindless decisions like playing Binny in a test lol.
Click to expand...

Let's face it.

Kohli has Ashwin powered up like insanely who has the ability to hide a lot of his mistakes.

We were almost in the verge of big trouble when our pacers didn't pick early wickets when the twin strikes by Ashwin changed the session completely and Aaron's Amla dismissal gave us all the advantages in that session.

Even in the first test SA innings, he picked up 4 out of first 5 SA wickets at a time when Elgar and Amla got going comfortably. Turned the game back on our favour after our batsmen screwed up in the first innings. If SA had got a 50-75 leads, we were screwed. Would be starting the game 0-1. Small hinges swing big doors.

I criticize Dhoni's captaincy a LOT :)) but he never had the services of this Ashwin in tests.

Never. Even had to manage a lulloo Ashwin against England 2012. :))

And that's why decisions need to be judged for what they are.

I get the logic of 3 pacers but Binny for Mishra (who dismissed ABD twice and looked super dangerous when it spun) is a crazy move.

Hope Kohli learns from his mistakes.
 
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Anchorman said:
Why are you completely ignoring the fact that Binny can be handy with the bat? I know he's not Bradman but he can be the difference between a score of 200 and 260.
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If we needed an extra batsman, they should have got KL Rahul/Sharma in. Binny is not a top 7 batsman and only bowls 3 overs when ball is new. Complete waste of space :facepalm:
 
Anchorman said:
Why are you completely ignoring the fact that Binny can be handy with the bat? I know he's not Bradman but he can be the difference between a score of 200 and 260.
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What you are ignoring is Binny's runs may be marginal and the odds of him scoring is WAY LESSER compared to Mishra's impact as bowler.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Even in asia we shouldn't be making mistakes like binny in the test 11 anyway. Our management should always look to play the best 11 - home or away.
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Here's the thing, Kohli wanted to use the day 1 pitch and always wanted to field first. So picking Binny was keeping that strategy in mind. It was an aggressive strategy and it worked without Binny's contribution. You can scream from the roof top that it was a mistake but to me it was an aggressive move. the gamble was between seam on day 1 and spin later.
 
Team got out for 214 and some people are claiming India on the verge of trouble? Seriously?And this is a new captain who has captained a hand ful of tests. Some people
 
Indiafan said:
Here's the thing, Kohli wanted to use the day 1 pitch and always wanted to field first. So picking Binny was keeping that strategy in mind. It was an aggressive strategy and it worked without Binny's contribution. You can scream from the roof top that it was a mistake but to me it was an aggressive move. the gamble was between seam on day 1 and spin later.
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If Kohli had picked 3 proper pacers for day 1(hint:Yadav) and Jadeja,Ashwin as spinners i wouldve called that aggressive. Heck had he dropped Mishra and got in an extra batsman wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

Some gamble when the man picked bowled 3 overs and most likely won't contribute with bat either.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
If we needed an extra batsman, they should have got KL Rahul/Sharma in. Binny is not a top 7 batsman and only bowls 3 overs when ball is new. Complete waste of space :facepalm:
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Fair enough. Just trying to understand the thought process.

sensible-indian-fan said:
What you are ignoring is Binny's runs may be marginal and the odds of him scoring is WAY LESSER compared to Mishra's impact as bowler.
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So if Mishra played SA would've got out for 150 odd? Again, I'm not advocating Binny's selection. I agree with Nikhil that they should've played Sharma or Rahul.
 
Criticism or praise should be issue based.

Kohli's attitude and tactics are TWO SEPARATE topics.

Just cos Kohli has a great attitude for tests doesn't mean his tactics are great.

His Rohit oveer Pujara in SL was super dumb and Pujara owned him and Shastri big time in the third test (and in first test). FACT.

That shows weak tactics.

And don't get me started on his bowling approach on Day 2 of Test 1. End result is not everything.

I know Kohli will improve but he ain't all the roses and unicorns that his results seem to suggest now.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Let's face it.

Kohli has Ashwin powered up like insanely who has the ability to hide a lot of his mistakes.

We were almost in the verge of big trouble when our pacers didn't pick early wickets when the twin strikes by Ashwin changed the session completely and Aaron's Amla dismissal gave us all the advantages in that session.

Even in the first test SA innings, he picked up 4 out of first 5 SA wickets at a time when Elgar and Amla got going comfortably. Turned the game back on our favour after our batsmen screwed up in the first innings. If SA had got a 50-75 leads, we were screwed. Would be starting the game 0-1. Small hinges swing big doors.

I criticize Dhoni's captaincy a LOT :)) but he never had the services of this Ashwin in tests.

Never. Even had to manage a lulloo Ashwin against England 2012. :))

And that's why decisions need to be judged for what they are.

I get the logic of 3 pacers but Binny for Mishra (who dismissed ABD twice and looked super dangerous when it spun) is a crazy move.

Hope Kohli learns from his mistakes.
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Yeah I would have not raised any question if Kohli had gone in with Umesh instead or played Rohit as the sixth batsmen. But playing a nothing bits and pieces player in tests like Binny is just poor imo.
Keep the bits and pieces for odi's and t20's.
 
Anchorman said:
So if Mishra played SA would've got out for 150 odd? Again, I'm not advocating Binny's selection. I agree with Nikhil that they should've played Sharma or Rahul.
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You are taking current result and extrapolating.

If Ashwin and Jaddu hadn't stepped, we could possible have seen SA score 300+ here. Post tea....Morkel and Abott were playing both Ash and Jaddu with ease before the fatal slog of Morkel (something happened post tea where even commies were saying things looked easy).

Mishra would have ensured the odd for the worst case scenario reduces. And as a captain, your goal is to do the balancing act well. Not only plan for best case scenarious.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You are taking current result and extrapolating.

If Ashwin and Jaddu hadn't stepped, we could possible have seen SA score 300+ here. Post tea....Morkel and Abott were playing both Ash and Jaddu with ease before the fatal slog of Morkel (something happened post tea where even commies were saying things looked easy).

Mishra would have ensured the odd for the worst case scenario reduces. And as a captain, your goal is to do the balancing act well. Not only plan for best case scenarious.
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Stepped up as in stepped up before.

Not talking about Mishra cleaning up the tail.
 
12219405_10154334248409128_3876427638634858951_n.jpg


Pity AB couldn't last.
 
battler said:
I remember even Dhoni having a lot of beginner's luck when he started captaincy.
Some of his questionable moves started to work but then what happend after that? Luck ran out and his captaincy in tests was exposed.
Similar thing will happen to kohli if he takes mindless decisions like playing Binny in a test lol.
Click to expand...

Yes, Dhoni's defensive strategy and Kohli's aggressive one of always aiming for 20 wickets is the same of course. Bangalore aids swing on day 1, Kohli gambled on that, simple as that.

It is a mindless decision only for mindless people used to decades of defensive tests and always wanting safety first approach.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You are taking current result and extrapolating.

If Ashwin and Jaddu hadn't stepped, we could possible have seen SA score 300+ here. Post tea....Morkel and Abott were playing both Ash and Jaddu with ease before the fatal slog of Morkel (something happened post tea where even commies were saying things looked easy).

Mishra would have ensured the odd for the worst case scenario reduces. And as a captain, your goal is to do the balancing act well. Not only plan for best case scenarious.
Click to expand...

And if AB had been born a girl, he would be playing croquet instead. Kohli is an aggressive captain and he is never going to go for the safety first, worst case scenario approach. He will see what can surprise hte opposition and what he can gamble on

Also, he is someone who learns from his mistakes. He was criticized a lot for selecting Rohit over Pujara, however when he found that doesn't work, he immediately supported Pujara.

Too much unwarranted criticism
 
Indiafan said:
And if AB had been born a girl, he would be playing croquet instead. Kohli is an aggressive captain and he is never going to go for the safety first, worst case scenario approach. He will see what can surprise hte opposition and what he can gamble on

Also, he is someone who learns from his mistakes. He was criticized a lot for selecting Rohit over Pujara, however when he found that doesn't work, he immediately supported Pujara.

Too much unwarranted criticism
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Not at all unwarranted criticism.

Yes, Kohli learns from his mistakes. Never said otherwise.

But he also makes mistakes too.

So no point in denying he doesn't make them.

Binny was a mistake. Neither here...nor there in Indian tracks.

The older ball was turning in the 2nd session before things were easing a bit in 3rd session. And it will turn in the 2nd innings.
 
battler said:
Yeah I would have not raised any question if Kohli had gone in with Umesh instead or played Rohit as the sixth batsmen. But playing a nothing bits and pieces player in tests like Binny is just poor imo.
Keep the bits and pieces for odi's and t20's.
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Lord Binny averages 85 with the ball in test cricket and we still play him :facepalm:
 
Indiafan said:
Yes, Dhoni's defensive strategy and Kohli's aggressive one of always aiming for 20 wickets is the same of course. Bangalore aids swing on day 1, Kohli gambled on that, simple as that.

It is a mindless decision only for mindless people used to decades of defensive tests and always wanting safety first approach.
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One Question What is the utility of stuart binny in the side?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Lord Binny averages 85 with the ball in test cricket and we still play him :facepalm:
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But some kohli fans are still blind to this and will say ' but but he took 6 wickets against bangladesh and he can slog a few sixes so we should play him' :facepalm:
 
Planning out all scenarios DOES NOT mean you are a defensive captain.

What is needed is strong grasp on offensive-defensive moves and not just on offensive moves.

McCullum is offensive as hell for NZ with all the funky fields. It worked great before but when the need is to go back to the tried and tested formula in Aus, he refuses to back down.

End result: Kiwis thrashed.

So we need to stop assuming that only all out offense is the right way.

Of course, you want to be offensive but with terms and conditions.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Planning out all scenarios DOES NOT mean you are a defensive captain.

What is needed is strong grasp on offensive-defensive moves and not just on offensive moves.

McCullum is offensive as hell for NZ with all the funky fields. It worked great before but when the need is to go back to the tried and tested formula in Aus, he refuses to back down.

End result: Kiwis thrashed.

So we need to stop assuming that only all out offense is the right way.

Of course, you want to be offensive but with terms and conditions.
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Agree but how was selecting binny an aggressive decision in the first place? :))
 
70% capacity at the ground, traditional test venues always get good crowds.

Mohali/ Nagpur/ Ahmedabad should not be hosting any test matches :facepalm:
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Agree but how was selecting binny an aggressive decision in the first place? :))
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Bangalore...seam track...3 pacers...5 bowlers....batsmen have to take responsibilty...win toss and bowl first.

To be fair, it was a aggressive like hell move.

To drop the 2 time ABD wicket taker for this needs GUTS. And Kohli must be complimented for that.

But it would be nice if he could use some thinking along with Josh. ;-)
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
70% capacity at the ground, traditional test venues always get good crowds.

Mohali/ Nagpur/ Ahmedabad should not be hosting any test matches :facepalm:
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Not to forget the Bangalore stadium is in the middle of the city with many colleges and school within 2 km radius.
 
Indiafan said:
And if AB had been born a girl, he would be playing croquet instead. Kohli is an aggressive captain and he is never going to go for the safety first, worst case scenario approach. He will see what can surprise hte opposition and what he can gamble on

Also, he is someone who learns from his mistakes. He was criticized a lot for selecting Rohit over Pujara, however when he found that doesn't work, he immediately supported Pujara.

Too much unwarranted criticism
Click to expand...

No one is criticizing kohli for his aggrasive attitude, but game plan and tactics are not adding up.

case 1. kohli thinks its a flat pitch. so he picks binny coz if SA make long partnerships we need a good backup bowler who does not give away easy runs and gives rest to sttike bowlers, and can bat abit.
but if its a flat pitch why would you bowl first. indian pitch will crumble on day 5 and even 200 will be difficult to chase.
Case 2. kohli thinks seamers will be handy on this pitch. then why drop yadav for binny. and binny's batting will also be nullified coz binny against SA seamers on seamers friendy pitch.
case 3. spinners pitch. i don't thing thats what kohli thought when he dropped mishra.

its not what the end result is but, there is a tactical mistake fot sure.
In 2007 dhoni bowled final over of final match with legend joginder sharma. but we all know the end result. that was a tactical failure but india won.
joginder sharma never played again. so even dhoni learned from his mistake even though we won.
 
JaDed said:
Not to forget the Bangalore stadium is in the middle of the city with many colleges and school within 2 km radius.
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i remember back in 1999 as a 9 year old us school kids were allowed to watch the Karnataka vs NZ match at the Chinnaswamy and i think Karnataka actually beat NZ :))
 
Good RR. Dhawan in flow keeps the score ticking. Vijay is not in tuk tuk mode either.
 
Indiafan said:
Yes, Dhoni's defensive strategy and Kohli's aggressive one of always aiming for 20 wickets is the same of course. Bangalore aids swing on day 1, Kohli gambled on that, simple as that.

It is a mindless decision only for mindless people used to decades of defensive tests and always wanting safety first approach.
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Haha what double standards .

Bowling first on a slightly helpful pitch is a aggressive move ? He's just hiding his batsmen , nothing aggressive about it .
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Agree but how was selecting binny an aggressive decision in the first place? :))
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Had this been Dhoni I know the same posters would have complained about quota pick , defensive mindset of picking a medium pacer over Paaast Yadav and what not .
 
Nikhil_cric said:
i remember back in 1999 as a 9 year old us school kids were allowed to watch the Karnataka vs NZ match at the Chinnaswamy and i think Karnataka actually beat NZ :))
Click to expand...

Lol in Chennai schools were shut for first day of India vs Australia test in 2001 match just for the match , the CM(Jayalalitha) made Australian team became famous here the teachers were shocked as it was announced just a day before.
 
Did you folks catch what happened to Simon Harmer a few deliveries ago?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
No.

Batao.

post video or gif.
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Here:

Imran Tahir to Dhawan, 2 runs, ah, that hack to fine leg. It's a flat, short delivery down leg. Dhawan just swiveled inside the line and brought the bat down like an axe. Simon Harmer, the sub, dives to stop the ball. But the ball seems to still want to go to the boundary. So he crawls along the turf, rapidly, with his pants down to add to his embarrassment. Somehow he saves it. But his blushes, well that's a different story
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Waiting for comments from Elgar, to know whether this was a good pitch or not.
 
A very satisfying day of test cricket for India, dominated all the three sessions.
 
JaDed said:
Lol in Chennai schools were shut for first day of India vs Australia test in 2001 match just for the match , the CM(Jayalalitha) made Australian team became famous here the teachers were shocked as it was announced just a day before.
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Er Karunanithi was the CM when we played Australia in 2001
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Yeah hopefully it will start by then. Highest amount of rainfall recorded on the month if November in a hundred years happens when we are absolutely dominating the no.1 team.
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I expect this SA team to be wrapped up in less than two sessions on the third fourth or fifth day when it'll turn more (we wrapped them up almost in two sessions on the first day) so i guess if we can get a healthy lead of 200 then weather will not play a huge role if we get around 50 overs everyday.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Yeah hopefully it will start by then. Highest amount of rainfall recorded on the month if November in a hundred years happens when we are absolutely dominating the no.1 team.
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I will be p***** beyond words if rain is ultimately a reason for us not whitewashing SA.
 
Scrolln said:
I expect this SA team to be wrapped up in less than two sessions on the third fourth or fifth day when it'll turn more (we wrapped them up almost in two sessions on the first day) so i guess if we can get a healthy lead of 200 then weather will not play a huge role if we get around 50 overs everyday.
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De Villiers can and will resist and Amla is due a big one.
Elgar looks pretty good as well. It won't be very easy the second time around I feel.
 
Scrolln said:
I expect this SA team to be wrapped up in less than two sessions on the third fourth or fifth day when it'll turn more (we wrapped them up almost in two sessions on the first day) so i guess if we can get a healthy lead of 200 then weather will not play a huge role if we get around 50 overs everyday.
Click to expand...

Well we still need to make around 450 for that and considering the batting collapses we've had off late I still have little confidence in this lineup. That selection of Binny might come back to haunt us big time.
 
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