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India vs Pakistan | 22nd Match, World Cup | Manchester | June 16 | Pre-Match Discussion Thread

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Rayyman said:
No guys no.

This tactic of part-timers has not and will not work. Especially against India who are great against spin.

Either Imad or Shadab has to play at 7 as fifth bowler, with 5 frontline bowlers playing.

Hafeez can be 6th but he is done as a spinner.
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India will eat Imad for lunch.

We either go with four proper fast bowlers and one spinner or with 3 fast bowlers, 1 spinner and 7 overs of Hafeez and 3 of Haris.
 
They will be under double pressure against You India. We lose this game and we are out of WC. Now to wake up at 4am to see us losing. Itna bara dil nahi hai bhai
 
Rayyman said:
Nobody has scored a hundred for us.

Babar Azam needs to step up against India. He is our key batsman and hasn't shown his best yet. It would be awesome if he exposed them.
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Today was the first time I watched Babar (and many other Pakistan stars play). This is what I noticed about Babar: 1. Has the best technique among Pakistani batsmen 2. Looks meek, almost scared, and plays like a robot.

He needs to a) build that mental strength, b) raise his game for big occasions, c) Value his wicket and not throw it away.

Look at how Warner played against India. Was scratchy and totally out of sorts. Yet he dug in and hung in there. Why? Because he values his wicket. Same with Dravid and the other greats. They know what their wicket means to their team, and to the opposition, and they work to constantly raise that value even more with every outing.

I don't see that steely determination in Babar that one got to see in the eyes of Tendulkar, Kohli, Sangakarra, Dravid, Miandad, Border, Gavaskar, Richards.

One reason why a talented young man like Babar looks so meek is due to a lack of iconic mentors in the Pakistani cricket establishment alongside whom Babar could have been groomed. The only way this can be rectified is if he gets to play with iconic players, possibly through IPL. A lot of Pakistani raw talent could have been harnessed into greats over the past 10 years, had they been a part of IPL, besides sharing locker rooms, conversing with, and picking the minds of cricketing greats.
 
Pakistan start as heavy favourites. We have lost Dhawan abd Pakistan will come hard at us just like they did against England. Congrats Ppers. Breaks my heart to say this but the streak us over I suppose :(
 
xbronze said:
Today was the first time I watched Babar (and many other Pakistan stars play). This is what I noticed about Babar: 1. Has the best technique among Pakistani batsmen 2. Looks meek, almost scared, and plays like a robot.

He needs to a) build that mental strength, b) raise his game for big occasions, c) Value his wicket and not throw it away.

Look at how Warner played against India. Was scratchy and totally out of sorts. Yet he dug in and hung in there. Why? Because he values his wicket. Same with Dravid and the other greats. They know what their wicket means to their team, and to the opposition, and they work to constantly raise that value even more with every outing.

I don't see that steely determination in Babar that one got to see in the eyes of Tendulkar, Kohli, Sangakarra, Dravid, Miandad, Border, Gavaskar, Richards.

One reason why a talented young man like Babar looks so meek is due to a lack of iconic mentors in the Pakistani cricket establishment alongside whom Babar could have been groomed. The only way this can be rectified is if he gets to play with iconic players, possibly through IPL. A lot of Pakistani raw talent could have been harnessed into greats over the past 10 years, had they been a part of IPL, besides sharing locker rooms, conversing with, and picking the minds of cricketing greats.
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Excellent analysis.
 
Hope there is a customary World Cup run out from Pakistan against India. So far 4 in 6 matches. I bet on Sohaib Malik who sleepwalks for non existing run
 
3 changes. Asif, Shoaib, Shaheen out. Haris, Shadab, Imad in. Surely Shadab/Imad/Hafeez/Haris combo won't given 70+ like Shaheen has been giving in all his recent ODIs and on top all 4 will bolster our batting/fielding.

try and attack, take wickets with Amir, Wahab and Hasan (new ball). Also, with Shadab keep slip whenever possible. and just accept 60 or so from Imad/Hafeez/Haris combo, wicket being bonus. At least we get batting till number 11 and much more solid middle order with Hafeez, Haris, Sarfraz, Imad, Shadab.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan start as heavy favourites. We have lost Dhawan abd Pakistan will come hard at us just like they did against England. Congrats Ppers. Breaks my heart to say this but the streak us over I suppose :(
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Lol Pakistan don’t even stand a chance
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan start as heavy favourites. We have lost Dhawan abd Pakistan will come hard at us just like they did against England. Congrats Ppers. Breaks my heart to say this but the streak us over I suppose :(
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Streak? are you kidding me?

Streak? really.

Who cares about streak at the moment? Pakistan has the chance to beat India twice on Fathers'd day, that is massive bragging rights, bigger than the streak.

With that being said, nice jinx but there is just no chance we beat you twice on Father's Day and to add to that our own recent "winning streak" which we are going into the game on Sunday with, shambles.
 
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There is rain scheduled from mid morning onwards in Manchester on Sunday.

It could be a shortened or perhaps abandoned match.
 
Honestly I was more Confident before CR final. Was disappointed they went with just 2 quicks. Still confident. This time not so much as this aging team has bagges that need to be hidden
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan start as heavy favourites. We have lost Dhawan abd Pakistan will come hard at us just like they did against England. Congrats Ppers. Breaks my heart to say this but the streak us over I suppose :(
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In which world when a team that has lost 12 of its last 15 odis start as HEAVY favourites? A team that struggles to put 2 good length delivery's in a row, where the tail starts at 4.
 
All weather forecasts predicting rain, so maybe we will get one free point?
 
Malik out, Haris in
Asif out, Imad in
Shaheen out, Shadab in

Asif out more for his fielding than his batting. Imad in because we need his batting.
 
AAli98 said:
In which world when a team that has lost 12 of its last 15 odis start as HEAVY favourites? A team that struggles to put 2 good length delivery's in a row, where the tail starts at 4.
Click to expand...

Well Put. :ssmith
 
Chokli said:
Will be washed out unfortunately.
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i would take it instead of 0 points, see what happened against AUS. so i guess if it is then lets say we win 4 of the easier games, that takes us to 5 wins, 2 NR, 12 points. then just need to hope NZ loses to one of WI/SAF and we should be good.
 
According to the 1992 plan, we are going to lose on Sunday.
Let's take our loss as a blessing.
 
Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Hafeez
Malik
Wahab
Amir
Shadab
Shaheen

I really don't like Malik but he always does well vs India
 
Changes for the next game versus India?

Malik out
Poor fielding and batting in previous match
Imad Wasim in - better fielder, batter and good bowler

Asif out
Poor fielding and batting
Harris in - more batting depth and also bowls

Shaheen out
Too expensive
Shadab back in - also can bat!

Hasan Ali out
Too expensive
Hasnain in - extra pace, X factor - will shock India

PCB this is the winning combination!!!!!

Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Sarfraz
Hafeez
Haris
Imad
Shadab
Wahab
Amir
Hasnain
 
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I’d say this would be the ideal XI against India

FZ
Imam
Bobby
Hafeez
Haris
Sarfi
Imad
Shady
Wahab
Hassan
Amir
 
Haris has to stay out, he is poor in the field.

I agree Malik has to be dropped but that should mean Shadab comes in and I think one of the pacers could be dropped for Imad, who is a good bowler at times and can certainly strike it. The problem is Hasan Ali has actually batted ok...so can he be dropped? Tough choice.
 
Haris and Shadab have to come in for Asif and Malik. Thar will improve the batting straight away, after that if Shadab can avoid being too expensive with the ball it's a bonus. Maybe Hasnain for Shaheen as well if he's unfit, although I still find that rumour hard to believe.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan start as heavy favourites. We have lost Dhawan abd Pakistan will come hard at us just like they did against England. Congrats Ppers. Breaks my heart to say this but the streak us over I suppose :(
Click to expand...

Even though I agree Dhawan is Indias strongest batsman India still has enough players to beat Pakistan , the one think I respect about the Indian team is the have good match awareness and they understand each other's role they play well as a unit Pakistan problem is they don't even today they should have won that match Agaisnt Aussie they were cruising so nicely
 
To highlight for the millionth time how malik and hafeez’s selection handicaps Pakistan in this World Cup.
Supposedly Malik bats down the order to provide acceleration which he of course doesn’t have the pedigree for. So if you bench Malik, whom do you bring in- haris? Where will he bat? Ahead of Sarfaraz? I hope not. Will he bat in place of hafeez? So where will hafeez bat? At 6?
The original sin here is Malik’s selection: if they had brought Rizwan or Abid, or frankly any dynamic middle order batsman they would have put that person at 5.
 
All those doing banghra over getting a point through rain,at the moment met office is predicting light showers. We should get enough overs in for a game. Also the forecast can change closer to the game . Just like it did for today's game.
 
I think Hasnain will play. Could go either way tbh.

Its hard to see them dropping Asif. He is the only hard hitter PCT has. Wahab and Hassan won't come good every game. Shadab needs to get back in, Imad will be bashed if he plays.
 
barah_admi said:
Haris has to stay out, he is poor in the field.

I agree Malik has to be dropped but that should mean Shadab comes in and I think one of the pacers could be dropped for Imad, who is a good bowler at times and can certainly strike it. The problem is Hasan Ali has actually batted ok...so can he be dropped? Tough choice.
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Malik for Shadab.
And maybe hasan for hasnain.
Supposedly this weakens our batting order.
We should not be surprised to see Malik playing against India - because he is supposed to be the India specialist, although he gets out pace and spin quite easily these days
 
Bat first for god's sake when you know you lose your marbles chasing anything over 2 digits
 
I am done with Malik. Haris can take his place. Shadab should replace Asif Ali . I think Shaheen came back well, I would give him another go. Shadab is a better fielder than Asif. He can't be a worse batter to be honest.

Haris is more reliable with the bat than Malik. But it isn't hard to be these days to be honest. Even Haris doesn't give me a 10p percent confidence. But when you have a pathetic batting culture like we do , we have no choice but to back players like Haris.
 
Shadab batting is underatted,he is much better batsmen(not striker) than asif and much better against pace than malik.
Shadab in asif out
Haris in malik out
Better bats + partime sla and legspinner
 
cririri said:
Shadab batting is underatted,he is much better batsmen(not striker) than asif and much better against pace than malik.
Shadab in asif out
Haris in malik out
Better bats + partime sla and legspinner
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Overrated you mean. Look at his strike rate and average.
 
Pete Rose said:
Malik for Shadab.
And maybe hasan for hasnain.
Supposedly this weakens our batting order.
We should not be surprised to see Malik playing against India - because he is supposed to be the India specialist, although he gets out pace and spin quite easily these days
Click to expand...
Hasan should open the bowling with amir,shaheen as first change and wahab after.
Hasan and shaheen are just bowling too short they will come good(and both have much better control than hasnain)
 
Ronaldo7 said:
Overrated you mean. Look at his strike rate and average.
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He almost always come when there is one two overs left what do you expect him to do?
He isn't a slogger power hitter,but he is a good timer of the ball,has good defence and with some work he can be one of our best bat.
 
Miracles do happen. Got to back Pakistan no matter how bad the odds are.

My team for India game:
1. Imam
2. Fakhar
3. Babar
4. Haris
5. Sarfaraz
6. Professor
7. Shadab
8. Hasan
9. Wahab
10. Amir
11. Hasnain
 
Can mods merge this with pre-mt. Drop Malik and Asif Ali and bring in Shadab + Haris Sohail
 
Tall bowlers usually extract extra bounce off the Old Trafford surface. So wouldn't surprise me if Mickey and co opt to stick with Shaheen Shah.

Doubt that Pakistani batsmen will like the OT surface. Pak has a poor record there especially in tests. Anyway wickets are flatter these days in the UK so there is hope.
 
Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Hafeez
Sarfaraz
Malik
Asif
Shadab/Imad
Hasan
Wahab
Amir

India play spin well, so either choose Shadab or Imad.

If you wants darts, then choose Imad, if you want a proper spinner, choose Shadab.

Malik won’t be dropped against India, and Asif will most likely retain his place.

Can’t drop Hasan, his batting might come in handy as we saw.
 
I'd keep Malik and Asif in the 11.

Malik's ability against spin will be crucial because ind rely on kuldeep and yadav to the damage in the middle overs.

I'd most likely drop Shaheen for Imad and that is pretty much it.
 
Barragan said:
I'd keep Malik and Asif in the 11.

Malik's ability against spin will be crucial because ind rely on kuldeep and yadav to the damage in the middle overs.

I'd most likely drop Shaheen for Imad and that is pretty much it.
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What will Imad's darters do to the mighty Indian batting line up? Shadab still spins the ball and has a good googly.
 
Our best chance of winning is batting first, getting a score of 300+ and hoping our bowlers step up and take wickets with the new ball. If we're chasing then I really can't see us winning
 
Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Hafeez
Harris
Sarfaraz
Imad
Shadab
Hassan
Wahab
Amir

Don’t be surprised when this team plays.
 
I think the team picks itself after the Aus game.

It's pretty much guaranteed that Shadab will come in for Shaheen.

Also i feel that Haris needs to come in for Asif who doesn't deserve a spot on current form. We also may need Haris as a handy 7th bowling option against India. .

It is tempting to drop Malik too, but this is the one team he does generally show up against and you definitely don't want to ring too many changes before such a big game.

Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Hafeez
Malik
Safaraz
Shadab
Hasan
Wahab
Amir
 
Another thing that goes in favor of Pakistan is they are best prepared team of all the teams besides England. They had 5 match series against Australia recently. then 5 match series against the WC favorites , now they have played both England and Australia again. Battle hardened.AMir is in screaming form. Wahab is on fire. Excellent batting depth.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
India is the only team that cannot come back with tail if they collapse. There is that constant concern.Almost all teams are anole to resurrect.
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India is also the only team that has the two best ODI batsman hence will most likely not collapse in the first place.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Another thing that goes in favor of Pakistan is they are best prepared team of all the teams besides England. They had 5 match series against Australia recently. then 5 match series against the WC favorites , now they have played both England and Australia again. Battle hardened.AMir is in screaming form. Wahab is on fire. Excellent batting depth.
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You never know with Pakistan. Depends on which team shows up on the day. I am hoping we bat first, and get 300+ on the board. Even then I wouldn't bee too confident, our bowling and fielding hasn't been amazing. I feel batting first is our best chance to win.
 
I know it's a dissappointing loss, but there was a lot to learn from the Australia game. Amir and Wahab were brilliant, Shaheen bowled well in the middle overs, and Shadab was badly missed. We also found out that Asif and Malik need to go. We were not uncompetitve in any way, and were on top for a decent part of the game. If we fix our mistakes, we will beat India.

Play this team-

Imam ul Haq
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail
Mohammad Hafeez
Sarfraz Ahmed*+
Shadab Khan
Hasan Ali
Wahab Riaz
Mohammad Amir
Shaheen Shah Afridi

-Haris in for Malik, Shadab in for Asif.
-Haris and Hafeez tentatively at 4 and 5, but I want to see them become more dynamic with the batting order. If Pakistan are two down within 20-25 overs, send Haris, otherwise send Hafeez first.
-Asif Ali hasn't done much power hitting, Wahab, Hasan, and Amir need to step up and try and pitch in with a few boundaries at the end of the innings, they are capable enough.
-Stick with 4 pacers, open with Amir and Hasan.
-Hasan has been poor, this should be his last chance. He's only getting a last chance because of what he has to offer with the bat too.
 
Mueez said:
India will eat Imad for lunch.

We either go with four proper fast bowlers and one spinner or with 3 fast bowlers, 1 spinner and 7 overs of Hafeez and 3 of Haris.
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Who knows if Imad will bowl well vs India. Depends on conditions.

But he gets in on batting alone because when it comes to playing at 6/7, he is a better option than Asif and Malik.
 
This indeed the best chance Pakistan has. The reasons are :
1. Sharma ji is playing slow like Warner in this world cup. He will put pressure on other 2 top order to score at higher rates

2. Dhawan is ruled out for 3 weeks. The only player in top 3 who goes after bowling right from the outset

3. He doesn't seem as fluent as he was before. Bowling outside off stump channel initially will get his wicket for sure this time.

4. No.4 is a big question mark now ????
Karthik/Shankar are too lame a players to occupy that and will be under extreme pressure to perform. Here is the chance to open the flood gates.

5. The no.4 problem exposes the lower order like dhoni to come above their normal timings after 35 overs which will fall in hands of Pakistan .

6. Dhoni exposed before 35 overs always plays slowly and will waste lot of deliveries. Spinners and pacers can capitalize and put further pressure on dhoni's batting partner.

7. Jhadhav is a hit or miss and usually plays the cheeky cameos after 45 overs. With him coming early to bat will force him to play differently than his usually role.

8. Hardik Pandya is like a rich man's afridi but he can't construct innings like yuvraj or dhoni. He will crumble under pressure and hit out at amir and wahab. This is were the chance lies and can get him early for cheap.

9. Then you have bhuvi and the tail to demolish with bouncers and Yorkers :D

10. Overall ! The strategy to demolish Indian batting line up is as simple as above.

11. Coming to bowling ! Bhuvi is always a liability without swing. Give respect to Bumrah and attack bhuvi . He starts experimenting with bowling if attacked and there lies his weakness

12. Bumrah is good and is in form. Take singles of him most of the time and upset his rhythm of bowling at same batsman for 3+ balls at a time.

13. Hardik Pandya is like old razzaq . His role is similar. Not a match winning baller so take full advantage of this weak link right from start and force Kohli to bring in Jhadhav to share overs of 5th bowler weakness. This is the biggest advantage for Pakistan.

14. Kuldeep is not in form like his buddy Chahal. He will dish bad deliveries and also he upsets the balance that Indian bowling had in the middle overs so milk Chahal and take on Kuldeep when he is down.

15. Chahal and Bumrah needs to be given respect and shod be milked for single and 2s.

With all these strategies and India's chinks int the th, surely Pakistan has more than a better chance of beating India on the given day.
 
Obaidd said:
Fakhar
Imam
Babar
Hafeez
Harris
Sarfaraz
Imad
Shadab
Hassan
Wahab
Amir

Don’t be surprised when this team plays.
Click to expand...

That's the best possible line-up we can play, both Imad and Shadab are an upgrade to Asif and Malik.
 
Haripotter said:
Jhadhav is a hit or miss and usually plays the cheeky cameos after 45 overs. With him coming early to bat will force him to play differently than his usually role.
Click to expand...
Kedar Jadhav's scores according to the number of overs he had when he comes to the crease:

After 30th over:
Innings 17
Not Outs 7
Runs 297
Average 30
Strike Rate 116
Highest Score 40*

Before 30th over:
Innings 14
Not Outs 3
Runs 587
Average 53
Strike Rate 104
Highest Score 120
 
Realistically the only change Pakistan will make is Shadab for Asif.

Shoaib will definitely play & they won’t play Haris because where will you fit him? Hafeez has played well at 4 and Sarfraz has made it clear he will play at 5, You can’t afford to play Haris at 6.
 
Every over less in the match would help Pakistan. If it’s 20-20 match, Pakistan will be huge favourite.

India’s better planning is more effective when it’s a longer match.
 
Drop Malik, Asif and bring in Haris , Imad. India is hot favorite here
 
Our players are down on confidence. India is at peak confidence.

This match is not something I'm looking forward to after yesterday's defeat. Bura lag raha hai bhaiyyon :ssmith
 
My PAK XI:

1. Fakhar Zaman
2. Imam Ul Haq
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Hafeez
5. Haris Sohail
6. Sarfaraz Ahmed (C+WK)
7. Imad Wasim
8. Wahab Riaz
9. Shadab Khan
10. Hasan Ali
11. Mohammad Amir
 
Usman Chadda said:
Our players are down on confidence. India is at peak confidence.

This match is not something I'm looking forward to after yesterday's defeat. Bura lag raha hai bhaiyyon :ssmith
Click to expand...

Lol. We don't even have Dhawan. Looking at Aamir's and Wahab's bowling form, the result is a foregone conclusion in favour of Pakistan. :sree
 
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