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India vs South Africa | 3rd Test | Johannesburg | Jan 24-28, 2018 | Day 2 | Discussion Thread

troodon said:
This pitch is still offering tons of swing and seam movement.

Batsmen need a lot of luck to score runs. Any point of time, a jaffa can take even the set batsman out.
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dont mind pitches that help bowlers but I would like to see these pitches more often in ODI's..Not sure such pitches are always good in test matches..(Dont get me wrong I love seeing batsmen squirm)
 
Madplayer said:
India are firm favourites in this match. Bowlers have done everything they can.

Can this over rated useless batting line up help out the bowlers FOR ONCE in this series?
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Batters are less to blame actually. Wickets have been very difficult to bat on. If our batsmen were playing our bowlers they would have scored much more than SA did.
 
the Great Khan said:
dont mind pitches that help bowlers but I would like to see these pitches more often in ODI's..Not sure such pitches are always good in test matches..(Dont get me wrong I love seeing batsmen squirm)
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Isn't the opposite of what you are saying much better. In tests having a pitch where every ball is an event is much better than usual test matches, while having big scores scored and chased down in limited overs much more fun than slow low scoring games
 
So far proteas have either bowled too full or too short and have got the lines wrong too. India slowly running away with this, India was bowling much better than this.
 
Good to see Indian batsmen play with a bit of aggression. Started off with Patel and now Rahul also looking to score.

Better die throwing punches rather than do nothing like a coward.
 
SA made big mistakes by making greentops, with there fragile batting they gave Ind a sniff.

Flattish pitches still would have been enough to beat these home lions.
 
Our batting looks positive.

Not that they are scoring very fast, but they look more confident and calm. Scoring with good shots and not worrying too much about the pitch.

If everyone plays this way, we'll get a good score.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Batters are less to blame actually. Wickets have been very difficult to bat on. If our batsmen were playing our bowlers they would have scored much more than SA did.
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I think India competed well because of their bowlers who brought India back into the game repeatedly. The batsmen are supposed to score runs. India were 90-7 Three times in this series. Thats unacceptable. Bowlers can only do so much.
 
This match will definitely have a result, and if (big IF), India pull this off, then a 2-1 scoreline would probably be a fair reflection of the series. India did get themselves into winning positions, but fluffled their lines when it counted.

Experience should stand their bowlers, and Kohli + Pujara in good stead for future tours away in England and Australia. Would worry about the other batsmen though. None of them have performed.

Pitch is questionable though. Balls lifting of a good length on day 2. If this were a spinning pitch, questions would have been raised already across the media.
 
Indian batsman are not forced to play many shots so far and the ones they have played they have scored off, really good stuff.
 
Madplayer said:
I think India competed well because of their bowlers who brought India back into the game repeatedly. The batsmen are supposed to score runs. India were 90-7 Three times in this series. Thats unacceptable. Bowlers can only do so much.
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I agree. Only time bowling let India down was in 1st Innings of the 1st Test, where I think they got carried away and allowed South Africa 50-60 runs too many. Otherwise no batsmen has performed consistently (bar maybe Kohli). All other batsmen have a question mark over their places. Where is the famed Indian batting production line?
 
Had it not been Republic day tomorrow, Parthiv's 16 would have paved a way for a holiday declared in Gujarat. By Parthiv's standards this 16 is almost 180 Not Out from any batsman, wow our selectors are clueless really
 
soso_killer said:
Criminal getting to a leg stump full toss. AB should take a look at himself. We no longer have Kallis to clean up after him. It's a pity the only player with a solid technique bar Amla in our top order is an opening bat. Makram would have done better after Rabada's stellar knock.
Faf is decent but tentive even after 60 odd balls. Makram on the other end picks up the tempo.

SA has to field better than they did in the first innings and they'll be fine.
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Red Devil said:
AB got out to a leg stump full toss?
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Full Toss?? Either some people are not watching the match or they are not able to appreciate good bowling from Indian bowlers.
[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] : Bhuvi set AB up with four outswingers and then bowled this masterpiece to get his wicket:https://streamable.com/xfgwx
 
South Africa still needs a Dale Steyn. Dropped catches in the first innings could cost us. But really disappointed with AB, after dropping a catch I would have assumed he would want to make up for it. Needs to to grow up.
 
Reddy said:
Full Toss?? Either some people are not watching the match or they are not able to appreciate good bowling from Indian bowlers.

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] : Bhuvi set AB up with four outswingers and then bowled this masterpiece to get his wicket:https://streamable.com/xfgwx
Click to expand...

None of the points made by [MENTION=130014]soso[/MENTION]-killer associated with AB should be taken seriously.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Our batting looks positive.

Not that they are scoring very fast, but they look more confident and calm. Scoring with good shots and not worrying too much about the pitch.

If everyone plays this way, we'll get a good score.
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How would have SA done facing Elgar and Hammer?
 
India ahead in the game. They need to bat well and add 150 runs more and the bowlers will care the rest.
 
Reddy said:
Full Toss?? Either some people are not watching the match or they are not able to appreciate good bowling from Indian bowlers.

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] : Bhuvi set AB up with four outswingers and then bowled this masterpiece to get his wicket:https://streamable.com/xfgwx
Click to expand...
[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] might have got confused.

ABD got a gem from BK. That ball swung in a mile. Kind of reminded me of the Aane Do series where BK cleaned up Hafeez/Azhar Ali etc.
 
I think Philander has already costed SA this match by dropping Kohli when he was at a cheap score.
 
Ab Fan said:
India ahead in the game. They need to bat well and add 150 runs more and the bowlers will care the rest.
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India need 250 on board to win. The likes of Faf and Elgar are hard to dismiss when they shut the shop down. They have done it in the past where they play ultra defensively and slowly chip away at the target.

One Indian batsman needs to get a hundred and rest should chip in with 20's and 30's.
 
IND is not ahead, well ahead in this Test. If I were manager, I would have dropped Pujara at 8 as safety net against 72/6, just in case and ask everyone to go after - what IND needs is a target of 170+.

However, I have seen a tendency of J'burg track that, it's most difficult to bat on Day 1/2 and starts to get better for batting in Day 3 & 4; but this one might be worse than usual. SAF will come back hard tmro morning - unless it's 105/6 at lunch, it's IND's game to lose.

And, interestingly, this is probably the most adverse wicket they got in this series - which proves one thing for sure : time in the middle does help on away tours. Instead of that one joke before 1st Test where 15 plays & 11 fields, teams should ask for couple of proper 4 day FC games, before 1st Test in every tour against decent sides, where stats do accounted for players' career.

I understand the problem though - that doesn't sell much in these kung fu cricket days, which has produced lots of Kok & Warner & Munro & Roy & .......
 
Red Devil said:
AB got out to a leg stump full toss?
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Phehlukwayo.
AB is to blame exposing the lower order after Rabada's hard work. He needed to bat time but went for a fancy drive against a bowler who can nip it back. India were starting to deflate at that stage.
 
Congratulations India... match is halfway in their bag
 
Must say Kohli's best decision in this series was in this match i.e. to win the toss and bat first.
 
India ahead by virtue of being just one down. They've done well to keep the South Africans at bay for now.

Fantastic test match this. You really have no idea about what might happen in the next hour.
 
Reddy said:
Full Toss?? Either some people are not watching the match or they are not able to appreciate good bowling from Indian bowlers.

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] : Bhuvi set AB up with four outswingers and then bowled this masterpiece to get his wicket:https://streamable.com/xfgwx
Click to expand...

Absolute peach. Not much he could've done there tbh.
 
Reddy said:
Full Toss?? Either some people are not watching the match or they are not able to appreciate good bowling from Indian bowlers.

[MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] : Bhuvi set AB up with four outswingers and then bowled this masterpiece to get his wicket:https://streamable.com/xfgwx
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I for one took sosos words for real and he made it sound like some tailender getting out to full toss lol.
 
Bilal7 said:
India ahead by virtue of being just one down. They've done well to keep the South Africans at bay for now.

Fantastic test match this. You really have no idea about what might happen in the next hour.
Click to expand...

I do have an idea. It's stumps now.
 
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Bilal7 said:
India ahead by virtue of being just one down. They've done well to keep the South Africans at bay for now.

Fantastic test match this. You really have no idea about what might happen in the next hour.
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You still believe Amla's innings of 60 has tilted this match in SA's favor?

Good day for us, lead by 42 with 9 wickets in kitty.
 
I don't think India is too far ahead. 2 wickets here and they could be out for 140-150 runs. It's very hard pitch to bat. These two openers are leaving the ball very well and SA has not bowled in right channel.
 
Anyway, happy to see 3 good games. I was tired of seeing lame matches one after another.
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
You still believe Amla's innings of 60 has tilted this match in SA's favor?

Good day for us, lead by 42 with 9 wickets in kitty.
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That innings remains the reason why South Africa are in the game. Similar to AB's knock in Cape Town.
 
Buffet said:
A bit of both, but blame goes to SA bowlers not making batsmen play enough.
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Most mediocre openers would have had a stab at most of the balls M Vijay left. He left on length, left on line that was an inch away from stump. It was incredible display of leaving the ball
 
Oligochaetes said:
Surprising to see only one down and 42 run lead. Was it poor bowling or great batting?
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Some average bowling and Indian batsmen playing positively. They are taking singles and not just blocking. Not letting the bowlers settle down and bowl 6 balls to the same batsman.

Patel set the tone by scoring a quick 16 runs. Boundaries came and the pressure was off a bit. Vijay and Rahul are determined to score some runs here.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Most mediocre openers would have had a stab at most of the balls M Vijay left. He left on length, left on line that was an inch away from stump. It was incredible display of leaving the ball
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Vijay also knows that a failure here might mean curtains down for him. He is playing with a lot at stake here. Looks focused and a lot more positive.
 
Vijay has been patient and so far it’s still a 50-50 game tbh in these conditions Indian batting is not too far from collapse and they might get bundled out for 150 tomorrow.. If we make 225+ we will be 75% favourites to win.. Let’s hope we do well..
 
I back SA to chase 170-180. India has to score a lot more to get to that target. Hopefully, bowlers will bowl better tomorrow.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Vijay has been patient and so far it’s still a 50-50 game tbh in these conditions Indian batting is not too far from collapse and they might get bundled out for 150 tomorrow.. If we make 225+ we will be 75% favourites to win.. Let’s hope we do well..
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You are never in on this pitch. You are one ball away from getting a peach. Just make the most of it as long as you are there.
 
JaDed said:
Thanks for that, I for one took sosos words for real and he made it sound like some tailender getting out to full toss lol.
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Red Devil said:
Absolute peach. Not much he could've done there tbh.
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That replay does not do full justice to that wicket.. Before that beauty by Bhuvi he had set up ABD with 4 peach out swingers where he edged twice and the 5th ball was this big in swinging delivery which left ABD completely clueless.. Highest quality test match bowling by Bhuvi there set up batsmen perfect,..
 
akki said:
Yeah so close series between two test teams between WORLD N.O 1 TEST TEAM of the world and yeah other one. And over rated player like amla also scored runs in one and only last match of the series due to umpire error and that too against indian bowling which nobody rates. but over all very closed series with both test matches we didnt knew who is going to win untill last or last 2 sessions.
What do you think personally, amla cud made himself in playing 11 of indian team when we had fab four batsman??. Pretty tough though.
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don't embarrass yourself man. everyone who hold bat in this series got luck, not only Amla. and he scored 80 odd runs in 1st innings of last match.

and ABD vs Amla, this is AB's comeback series and he's better than Amla in this series. but overall Amla is better Test batsman than ABD.

Also about Amla hanging due to his past reputation, that's lol worthy [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]. I agree he past his prime but why he need to replaced with inferior player?

This is the problem with people. there's a guy who used to average 50 now he's only average 40 and people calls his head for 35 averaged guy, that's fair? I don't think so. if they've better (or equal) player than him then it's ok, otherwise not. (same with MSD too)
 
Smbhayi said:
don't embarrass yourself man. everyone who hold bat in this series got luck, not only Amla. and he scored 80 odd runs in 1st innings of last match.

and ABD vs Amla, this is AB's comeback series and he's better than Amla in this series. but overall Amla is better Test batsman than ABD.

Also about Amla hanging due to his past reputation, that's lol worthy [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]. I agree he past his prime but why he need to replaced with inferior player?

This is the problem with people. there's a guy who used to average 50 now he's only average 40 and people calls his head for 35 averaged guy, that's fair? I don't think so. if they've better (or equal) player than him then it's ok, otherwise not. (same with MSD too)
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Kindly read previous posts about the context or to whom, before passing the judgement.
 
Buffet said:
I back SA to chase 170-180. India has to score a lot more to get to that target. Hopefully, bowlers will bowl better tomorrow.
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South Africa no longer has a G. Smith TBH. When senior players throw wickets like that I lose all hope. The irony is AB wouldn't have played that shot with Kallis and Smith in the side. I don't know whether he sees himself bigger than the team or not (probably a low IQ than the former). Smith/Kallis would have told him to consolidate after Rabada's knock. SA doesn't have a senior figure to curb him down and his attacking instincts.
AB doesn't have leadership qualities to assess match situations. He needs to be told what to do. Question is who can do that in this side? Amla is usually at the crease, there's no senior figure to advise him. That's the sad part, he along Amla are our senior members.

How does an Elgar or a Makram say to AB "Hey mate, it's a tough pitch out there. Bat out the first 30 minutes or so. Don't drive anything on the up". How do you give advice to someone with 100+ Tests and your senior (without coming across as insulting)?

This team doesn't have characters, we need someone to own up to AB. We have a big series coming up. Australia have the bowlers to inflict maximum damage.
 
soso_killer said:
.
How does an Elgar or a Makram say to AB "Hey mate, it's a tough pitch out there. Bat out the first 30 minutes or so. Don't drive anything on the up". How do you give advice to someone with 100+ Tests and your senior (without coming across as insulting)?
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It's actually worked and won SA two matches out of 3, so it would be insanely rich to tell him it's the wrong approach.

It's not about seniority vs juniority. It's more about you needing address your implict idea of hitting runs as vice and blocking balls as virtue.

These haven't been easy conditions, and AB has done well by counter-attacking. In fact, there's a great argument that SA have been a bit too passive in response to our less than magnificent bowling.

Why is FaF exempt criticism? It's fine to be out some 4 times in ten innings not offering a shot, but anyone getting out playing one needs to be told off? Why?
 
soso_killer said:
South Africa no longer has a G. Smith TBH. When senior players throw wickets like that I lose all hope. The irony is AB wouldn't have played that shot with Kallis and Smith in the side. I don't know whether he sees himself bigger than the team or not (probably a low IQ than the former). Smith/Kallis would have told him to consolidate after Rabada's knock. SA doesn't have a senior figure to curb him down and his attacking instincts.
AB doesn't have leadership qualities to assess match situations. He needs to be told what to do. Question is who can do that in this side? Amla is usually at the crease, there's no senior figure to advise him. That's the sad part, he along Amla are our senior members.

How does an Elgar or a Makram say to AB "Hey mate, it's a tough pitch out there. Bat out the first 30 minutes or so. Don't drive anything on the up". How do you give advice to someone with 100+ Tests and your senior (without coming across as insulting)?

This team doesn't have characters, we need someone to own up to AB. We have a big series coming up. Australia have the bowlers to inflict maximum damage.
Click to expand...

AB sometime lacks match awareness for sure, but I think his attacking game helped earlier. Keeping that in mind, I am not sure if anyone is going to talk to him about it. Having said that, I do think that trying to drive on up is a stupid idea in pitches like this. Attacking doesn't mean that you simply attack. It has to be calculated. If he had hung on for 20 more overs, game would have been over for Indians. Bowlers would have been tired and easy runs would have come.

Anyway, Team is less strong than when we had Smith and Kallis. Same Indian team would have lost matches easily even if only Kallis was playing.

I am anyway happy to see 3 good games. I got bored watching Ashes earlier. I don't think India is in control here even now despite being at 40/1 score.
 
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CricketAnalyst said:
It's actually worked and won SA two matches out of 3, so it would be insanely rich to tell him it's the wrong approach.

It's not about seniority vs juniority. It's more about you needing address your implict idea of hitting runs as vice and blocking balls as virtue.

These haven't been easy conditions, and AB has done well by counter-attacking. In fact, there's a great argument that SA have been a bit too passive in response to our less than magnificent bowling.

Why is FaF exempt criticism? It's fine to be out some 4 times in ten innings not offering a shot, but anyone getting out playing one needs to be told off? Why?
Click to expand...

Different context. And I expect a guy with 100 Test match to know a green Bullring is the toughest wicket going around. He would have seen how Smith and Amla batted against NZ on a similar difficult surface. He chose not to learn.

There can be no egos in a team environment. Even Kallis would put the team before himself. There were rumours going around that some of our Test players were not happy to see AB given the Test captaincy against Zimbabwe. He had skipped tough tours, for him to be given the arm band didn't sit well with the team, CSA insisted AB should captain. I wonder if AB is trying to prove a point and impose himself to the detriment of the team. These things go unnoticed when the team is winning. But I expect to see dirty linen in public against Australia. All is not right in that dressing room. Wouldn't be surprised to see him retire should Australia thrash us.
 
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ethan hunt said:
Southafrican batting lineup is pretty weak . Australia will destroy this batting lineup .
No wonder they lost badly to England.
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Barring Smith, none of them can play moving ball.And SA bowlers are much faster and better than England's
 
soso_killer said:
The irony is AB wouldn't have played that shot with Kallis and Smith in the side.
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Serious amount of psychoanalysis going on here.

No need to over analyze this. He got out to a good bowler who set him up with some very good balls before bowling him with a beauty.
 
HASHIM AMLA has played many bigger and longer innings for the Standard Bank Proteas but for skill, adaptability and by no means least sheer courage his latest effort was right up there with the best.

He finished on 61 off 121 balls with 7 four but, if you consider that the other five specialist batsmen in the South African top order made 27 runs between them, you would have been left wondering where the home side would have been without him.

He first kept the Proteas in the game when there was the real possibility that they would be well behind on the first innings and then guided them through the Bidvest Wanderers minefield to enable them to take a lead of 7 runs on the first innings in a match in which every run scored or saved is going to be invaluable.

India, who re-arranged their top order with Parthiv Patel opening the batting, got through the close pretty well unscathed on 49/1 for an overall lead of 42.

It leaves the final Sunfoil Freedom Series Test match balanced on a knife edge and, with 11 wickets having fallen on day one and 10 on day two, the contest is surely moving to an early conclusion.

If Amla was the Proteas hero of the day there were very good supporting roles filled by Kagiso Rabada who hung around for almost the entire morning session to help Amla put on 64 for the third wicket and then by Vernon Philander who provided the most free-flowing batting of the day in adding 44 for the seventh wicket with Amla in only 12 overs.

Many of Philander’s drives and cuts were out of the top drawer and one thing the Proteas have learned from this series is that their lower-order is getting a lot more reliable and productive.

Batting on this surface has remained an absolute lottery and the Indian pace attack generally took full advantage of the opportunity with Jasprit Bumrah returning career-best figures of 5/54 and both Buvneshwar Kumar and Ishant Sharma providing excellent supporting roles.

Just what kind of target the Proteas will be comfortably chasing in the fourth innings remains to be seen. The obvious answer would be as few as possible.

Conditions are not going to get any easier with variable bounce being added to the seam and swing currently available. One imagines that anything north of 200 will test Faf du Plessis’ men to the limit if they want to keep their unbeaten record for the current summer.
 
And no Faf is not exempt. He is a limited bloke and an honest trier. He is not in the league of Amla and AB in terms of quality.
I expect more from those two. Try to think of Clarke and Hussey taking responsibility after senior players retired.
I don't mind a player struggling or out of form. What I hate is cowardice and softness or no awareness.

When a player has talent or is in form and does not cash in, I get very upset. Come and see how Smith will lift his whole team up in March. He won't get teasing 60's or 80's, he'll convert them into daddy hundreds. I'm very critical of talented players not standing up in general. Is Smith more talented than AB? No, but he is mentally tougher. AB has had a two year break to work on the mental side of things.

Let's be honest, we could select three or four world XI's of the last 20 years, Faf wouldn't make any. A gun captain but a limited bloke.
 
Smbhayi said:
don't embarrass yourself man. everyone who hold bat in this series got luck, not only Amla. and he scored 80 odd runs in 1st innings of last match.

and ABD vs Amla, this is AB's comeback series and he's better than Amla in this series. but overall Amla is better Test batsman than ABD.

Also about Amla hanging due to his past reputation, that's lol worthy [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]. I agree he past his prime but why he need to replaced with inferior player?

This is the problem with people. there's a guy who used to average 50 now he's only average 40 and people calls his head for 35 averaged guy, that's fair? I don't think so. if they've better (or equal) player than him then it's ok, otherwise not. (same with MSD too)
Click to expand...

I never said any such thing mate. That was [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] and he himself didn't put in a wrong way either.
 
Dingolfy said:
Barring Smith, none of them can play moving ball.And SA bowlers are much faster and better than England's
Click to expand...

Based on form and history, you have to back South Africa vs Australia when playing in South Africa.
 
MenInG said:
HASHIM AMLA has played many bigger and longer innings for the Standard Bank Proteas but for skill, adaptability and by no means least sheer courage his latest effort was right up there with the best.

He finished on 61 off 121 balls with 7 four but, if you consider that the other five specialist batsmen in the South African top order made 27 runs between them, you would have been left wondering where the home side would have been without him.
.
Click to expand...

His innings should be remembered for luck more than anything else. There were at least 3 occasions when, if the umpire had raised his finger a review would not have overturned the decision. To get 3 such "lives" in scoring 61 is very very lucky.
 
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Napa said:
Serious amount of psychoanalysis going on here.

No need to over analyze this. He got out to a good bowler who set him up with some very good balls before bowling him with a beauty.
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He got a peach there's no denying that.
But go and look how he fiddled around at the crease in difficult conditions as if he was playing Sunday League Cricket. The ball was swinging both ways yet on two occasions he tried to dab it to third man, with three slips and a gully.

You couldn't drive on the up on this pitch and he did. That's irresponsible. On this type of wicket you need to play percentage cricket.
 
Pete Rose said:
credit to bowler if thats the case. but that is a horrible shot even if set up.
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AB has always played that way right through the series and was quite successful with that approach. Aggression is the way to go when the bowlers are dominating.
 
troodon said:
AB has always played that way right through the series and was quite successful with that approach. Aggression is the way to go when the bowlers are dominating.
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Meh, low scoring series pronounces the value of a few hit and miss innings.
 
It looks all clear that Australians will thrash SA in the upcoming tour.

Anyways, AB has done his part more than enough in this series. Getting out to some fantastic bowling is all okay in a dead rubber. It is all upto the batsmen how he plays.

He is the Man of the series for me in this series.
 
Buffet said:
AB sometime lacks match awareness for sure, but I think his attacking game helped earlier. Keeping that in mind, I am not sure if anyone is going to talk to him about it. Having said that, I do think that trying to drive on up is a stupid idea in pitches like this. Attacking doesn't mean that you simply attack. It has to be calculated. If he had hung on for 20 more overs, game would have been over for Indians. Bowlers would have been tired and easy runs would have come.

Anyway, Team is less strong than when we had Smith and Kallis. Same Indian team would have lost matches easily even if only Kallis was playing.

I am anyway happy to see 3 good games. I got bored watching Ashes earlier. I don't think India is in control here even now despite being at 40/1 score.
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At 12/3 and 70 odd for two I expect different approach.

That's the thing attacking doesn't mean carting bowlers around. He could have done what Amla was doing to devastating effect. He has a better hand eye coordination too. He undid all KG's hard work, disappointing from a senior figure. Amla only drove full deliveries.

I want someone to stand up to AB and give him a mouthful.
 
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