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India's Pace Bowling - Any hope?

Canistani Hero said:
Blitz answered your question in his response to my posts, go a few posts up :98:
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Blitz has a rather curious condition of selective myopia.. when he can list Anwar and Yousuf as "World Class" and then bracket Kapil Dev as "half decent".

No point even beginning to have a discussion with someone like that..

Its a fact that we've not had world class bowlers..but we produce world class batsmen by the dozen more than any other country, in a country where till recently everyone aspired to be a Gavaskar or a Tendulkar it would hardly come as a surprise. Even in our Galli cricket the bowlers used to be really batsmen who couldn't cut it with the bat and turn their arm over to call themselves a "bowler" to slot into the team. Such a system takes time to change..

Pak on the other hand has a bowling culture and it has been showing in your batting ever since Miandad hung up his boots.
 
@Blitz

World class?how many Pak batsman avg 50+ away from home?

How many of them avgd decent let alone great agianist the best team of their time?That is againist WI of 80s and Aus of 2000s?

Except Miandad none of your batsman can lay claim to world class batsman.Even he was poor againist WI.

India has had decent bowling and very good batting that is our way of cricket.Pakistas way is decent batting and very good bowling,i see no reason to follow the Pakistani way. not that we shouldnot try to identify bowling talent we should.

Btw follow Mohan's post about other famous Indian sportsmen.
 
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cricketjoshila said:
@Blitz

World class?how many Pak batsman avg 50+ away from home?

How many of them avgd decent let alone great agianist the best team of their time?That is againist WI of 80s and Aus of 2000s?

Except Miandad none of your batsman can lay claim to world class batsman.Even he was poor againist WI.

India has had decent bowling and very good batting that is our way of cricket.Pakistas way is decent batting and very good bowling,i see no reason to follow the Pakistani way. not that we shouldnot try to identify bowling talent we should.

Btw follow Mohan's post about other famous Indian sportsmen.
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..cough cough..Hanif Mohammad, Zaheer Abbas, Inzamam ul Haq, Saeed Anwar :97:
 
Just to add a bit of statistics...

Its evident how dependent India have been on Zaheer in test matches for the last two years. This is his stats after that horrid Australia series, before which he was even giving tough competition to Steyn as the best bowler on the basis of current performance of that time.

untitled.JPG

Its a shame that on average, SK Raina is our 6th best test bowler.

Ishant and Harbhajan have been horrible. Even if Harby had played the Windies home series, his average wouldn't have been lifted by much.
 
This new guy Awana looks decent. Has been putting up consistent performances as well backed up by good FC season.
 
^The problem is the selection yaar. We have lot of bowlers who can bowl 140s. I can name 8 bowlers , yes, 8 bowlers, no kidding, who can bowl 140s consistently.

Umesh yadav
Varun aaron
Rahul Shukla
Abu nechim
Shammi ahmed
Ishant shamra
Parwinder Awanna
Veer Prathab Singh

But you know what the problem is? Our beloved captain Dhoni and the selection committee loves Praveen kumar and Vinay kumar who bowls at the pace of Anil kumble. This selection committee will be changed next year. We can hope better things next year.
 
Canistani Hero said:
..cough cough..Hanif Mohammad, Zaheer Abbas, Inzamam ul Haq, Saeed Anwar :97:
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I don't think you can call them world class. Good but surely not world class. They have been very mediocre outside the subcontinent. If Srinath,ZAK are not world class how are they?
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nxehIWtDqoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

this is there hope already reverse swinging the ball
 
Yup iy was great to see them bowl in tandem.Umeash clocked 151.5ks as highest.Aarons was 147.5k.

But they had bounce pace and movement.
 
Incredible bowling by the youngsters. Both are very young and they can be very useful if BCCI manages them properly.
 
umesh worked in a coal mine prior to cricket. fast bowling should seem easier to him oddly enough.
he himself has stated that he knows nothing other than to bowl quick.
 
these guys are pretty good and awana can be a pretty good support bowler
now before jumping here with guns...lets understand my prespective thee guys aren o way near the best but atleast they have potential to be good bowlers unlike our current line of crap tundlers :((
 
btw dont worry abt dhoni guys
i dont htink he will have tht much power left to allow his friends into team
i guess finally some deserving players will get there due chances!
 
amlafan79 said:
btw dont worry abt dhoni guys
i dont htink he will have tht much power left to allow his friends into team
i guess finally some deserving players will get there due chances!
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This is the real problem.
Ganguly Era - Likes of Nehra, Agarkar were given fair chances and then dropped after they failed.(even Kumble was ignored I recall in some matches in 2002)
Dhoni Era - Likes of Ishant,Harbhajan,Sir 'Jaddu' are continuosly selected inspite of failure due to reputations and 'talent'.
Zaheer of the Ganguly era was a good test bowler (5fer at Gabba in 2003 and in NZ)even though he was erratic in Odis.
 
Lethalweapon said:
This is the real problem.
Ganguly Era - Likes of Nehra, Agarkar were given fair chances and then dropped after they failed.(even Kumble was ignored I recall in some matches in 2002)
Dhoni Era - Likes of Ishant,Harbhajan,Sir 'Jaddu' are continuosly selected inspite of failure due to reputations and 'talent'.
Zaheer of the Ganguly era was a good test bowler (5fer at Gabba in 2003 and in NZ)even though he was erratic in Odis.
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thing is we hav good bowlers...and its more frustrating when we play tht tundler brigade
i saw the whole spell of aaron yes its jsut t20 but i odnt think vinay kumar can ever bowl like tht or make kallis struggle
kallis wasnt coming on front foot
and still he hit the bat high.. and guy cameafter injury wasnt even running in hard ,,
if these guys aren ot picked in t20 world cup then we deserve to get be eliminated from tournament in first round itself
and dhoni is done he has lost it..
even csk play spinner and all rounders no genuine bowler like dougy
they played hilfy some how and i still think his seection was totally wrong and baised
jaddu darted and got some wickets and in dhoni's mind he is good enough to play for india i think its bcos he himself has been mediore and still playng the bar is very low x(
 
amlafan79 said:
thing is we hav good bowlers...and its more frustrating when we play tht tundler brigade
i saw the whole spell of aaron yes its jsut t20 but i odnt think vinay kumar can ever bowl like tht or make kallis struggle
kallis wasnt coming on front foot
and still he hit the bat high.. and guy cameafter injury wasnt even running in hard ,,
if these guys aren ot picked in t20 world cup then we deserve to get be eliminated from tournament in first round itself
and dhoni is done he has lost it..
even csk play spinner and all rounders no genuine bowler like dougy
they played hilfy some how and i still think his seection was totally wrong and baised
jaddu darted and got some wickets and in dhoni's mind he is good enough to play for india i think its bcos he himself has been mediore and still playng the bar is very low x(
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Dude Dhoni Averages 52 in ODI and you are calling him mediocre? So what consititutes a good player, anyone who averages 70? Sorry there is none in world cricket at the moment with that average.
 
giri26 said:
Dude Dhoni Averages 52 in ODI and you are calling him mediocre? So what consititutes a good player, anyone who averages 70? Sorry there is none in world cricket at the moment with that average.
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You love Dhoni so much that you ignored the whole post and only stuck to that last line !!!(even I don't agree that MS is mediocre even as a test bat atleast in Asia).

Simple questions TESTS,
In Ganguly- Dravid era, Srinath retired, bowlers like Irfan,Balaji even Zaheer (then) came and went but 1. WERE THEY MISSED? Compare that to Zaheer now except WI tour , India is supposed to be dependent on him now, the loser captain gets clueless and short of ideas,lol.
Yadav (and Aaron) are FIRST CHANGE BOWLERS specially in odis.(as per the captain)why? THAT TOO IN A COUNTRY LIKE AUSTRALIA?
2.DOES WINNING SOME 'TROPHIES' MAKES DHONI A BETTER CAPTAIN THAN GANGULY AND DRAVID?
3.GANGULY'S CRITICS SAY THAT HE WON MATCHES NOT SERIES OUTSIDE INDIA. IS THAT FAIR?
4.GANGULY SELECTED AND BACKED PLAYERS SPECIFICALLY BOWLERS LIKE HARBY,NEHRA AND ZAHEER. DRAVID DID IT WITH MUNAF,SREESANTH,KUMBLE ALSO DID IT WITH ISHANT. HAS DHONI DONE THAT? MAYBE BACKING TRUNDLERS AND SIR JADDU?(YADAV DID NOT DEBUT IN ENG ODIS ,HIS DEBUT WAS DELAYED.PEOPLE FORGET THAT, WHAT WAS THE REASON?).
 
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Lethalweapon said:
You love Dhoni so much that you ignored the whole post and only stuck to that last line !!!(even I don't agree that MS is mediocre even as a test bat atleast in Asia).

Simple questions TESTS,
In Ganguly- Dravid era, Srinath retired, bowlers like Irfan,Balaji even Zaheer (then) came and went but 1. WERE THEY MISSED? Compare that to Zaheer now except WI tour , India is supposed to be dependent on him now, the loser captain gets clueless and short of ideas,lol.
Yadav (and Aaron) are FIRST CHANGE BOWLERS specially in odis.(as per the captain)why? THAT TOO IN A COUNTRY LIKE AUSTRALIA?
2.DOES WINNING SOME 'TROPHIES' MAKES DHONI A BETTER CAPTAIN THAN GANGULY AND DRAVID?
3.GANGULY'S CRITICS SAY THAT HE WON MATCHES NOT SERIES OUTSIDE INDIA. IS THAT FAIR?
4.GANGULY SELECTED AND BACKED PLAYERS SPECIFICALLY BOWLERS LIKE HARBY,NEHRA AND ZAHEER. DRAVID DID IT WITH MUNAF,SREESANTH,KUMBLE ALSO DID IT WITH ISHANT. HAS DHONI DONE THAT? MAYBE BACKING TRUNDLERS AND SIR JADDU?(YADAV DID NOT DEBUT IN ENG ODIS ,HIS DEBUT WAS DELAYED.PEOPLE FORGET THAT, WHAT WAS THE REASON?).
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I get what he said and I agreed to whatever was there in the post. Thats the reason I did not refute any other points he put in the post. I was only replying to his post calling Dhoni mediocre. I understand that young players need to be backed and given chances. I agree that Vinay Kumar needs to stay away from all forms of cricket. Praveen should not play ODI's. Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav should partner Zaheer in most of the games in ODI's. This is the time to groom these guys before Zaheer calls it a day.
 
i mean we have a decent crop to pick from...

i rather back someone with potential who might come good than say VK or PK who i know what they will do and can never improve beyond a point

lets see what we have

yadav
aaron
awana
nechim
dinda (yea he is decent atleast in odis better than vk or pk)
shukla
shami ahmed
then one left arm quick who bowls like zak (some anwar chap)
ishant
tyagi

hell we can def find decent bowlers coz they have potential and reasonable speed

i mean if we play pk who is decent why not play irfan he will do a similar job maybe give 10 odd runs more than pk but is a better fielder and batsmen.
irfans batting is highly underrated the guy can hit serious good bowlers like narine malinga etc

hell even bhuveshwar kumar is also ok at 7

below people should be out of contention
VK (permanent drop)
PK (borderline case)
jaddu (only in subcontinent he can be tried)
Yusuf (permanent drop)
nehra
munaf (dadaji attitude needs to be kicked)
 
give them sometime, and the likes of Umesh Yadav and Varun Aarun would be reduced to lethargic medium pacers.
Indian gene doesn't contain what it takes to be a pacer.
---no offence intended
 
dadvoc said:
give them sometime, and the likes of Umesh Yadav and Varun Aarun would be reduced to lethargic medium pacers.
Indian gene doesn't contain what it takes to be a pacer.
---no offence intended
Click to expand...

lol not really it's just those crappy indian tracks which break a fast bowler.
 
speed said:
lol not really it's just those crappy indian tracks which break a fast bowler.
Click to expand...

Serious question: how different are Indian tracks to Pakistani tracks, a country that has produced great fast bowlers?
 
Jo_Don said:
Serious question: how different are Indian tracks to Pakistani tracks, a country that has produced great fast bowlers?
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the tracks in punjab are bowler freindly

most great pak bowlers are from punjab
 
Jo_Don said:
Serious question: how different are Indian tracks to Pakistani tracks, a country that has produced great fast bowlers?
Click to expand...

Pitches were infact flatter in Pakistan but for those great fast bowlers, if the pitch was not helping them, they always had other skills which helped them getting so many wickets. unfortunately these new bowlers from India dont have that skill.
 
another factor is indian kids play with tennis ball, whilst pak kids play with tape ball which encourages you to bend you back.
 
With so much money through IPL and a lot of money going to get invested in domestic teams as well which would help young kids in India to take cricket as a profession instead of one of the extra-carricular activities/recreational sports. We will be seeing a lot of young fast bowlers in a few years time. We have already seen quite a few 145K+ bowlers in our domestic circuit compared to how we used to open the innings with trundler like Kapil Dev. Number is going to go up from now on.
 
pun500 said:
i mean we have a decent crop to pick from...

i rather back someone with potential who might come good than say VK or PK who i know what they will do and can never improve beyond a point

lets see what we have

yadav
aaron
awana
nechim
dinda (yea he is decent atleast in odis better than vk or pk)
shukla
shami ahmed
then one left arm quick who bowls like zak (some anwar chap)
ishant
tyagi

hell we can def find decent bowlers coz they have potential and reasonable speed

i mean if we play pk who is decent why not play irfan he will do a similar job maybe give 10 odd runs more than pk but is a better fielder and batsmen.
irfans batting is highly underrated the guy can hit serious good bowlers like narine malinga etc

hell even bhuveshwar kumar is also ok at 7

below people should be out of contention
VK (permanent drop)
PK (borderline case)
jaddu (only in subcontinent he can be tried)
Yusuf (permanent drop)
nehra
munaf (dadaji attitude needs to be kicked)
Click to expand...

Yusuf is not a frontline bowler. He is handy on a turner though.

Munaf doesn't give freebies to batsman. Don't write him off like that.
He would have been ideal choice in the Asia cup. He is Specifically better against big hitting lefties.
What about Kerala express?
 
dadvoc said:
give them sometime, and the likes of Umesh Yadav and Varun Aarun would be reduced to lethargic medium pacers.
Indian gene doesn't contain what it takes to be a pacer.
---no offence intended
Click to expand...

LOL

Tell me which genetic study said what you just posted?The propaganda fed by your institutions?
 
again lots of potential we will only know abt the hope after we test them..
yadav is one sure thing for me personally i have high hopes from awana and aaron too
hope they are given proper run :(
 
dadvoc said:
give them sometime, and the likes of Umesh Yadav and Varun Aarun would be reduced to lethargic medium pacers.
Indian gene doesn't contain what it takes to be a pacer.
---no offence intended
Click to expand...

What the hell yaar. lol. If this was not pakpassion I would have replied you in your language. lol
 
Gotta thanks IPL for unearthing many pace bowlers.

Umesh
Varun
Parvinder Awanna
Dhaval kulkarni
Shammi ahmed
Abu nechim


Gotta strong pace attack I would say.
 
Kulkarny has improved a lot. He started as a trundler. He is bowling over 140s with very clean high arm action with great wrist action. For me he is as good as any of the current fast bowlers from subcontinent.
 
madaboutcricket said:
Kulkarny has improved a lot. He started as a trundler. He is bowling over 140s with very clean high arm action with great wrist action. For me he is as good as any of the current fast bowlers from subcontinent.
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Let him perform at International level before labeling him the next best thing :facepalm:
 
The truth is that India has better fast bowling stock than all other subcontinental teams..
 
IamIndian said:
The truth is that India has better fast bowling stock than all other subcontinental teams..
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As of now, better than Bangladesh, almost at par with the Lankans.

And yeah not even close to Pakistan. :junaid:wahab:sohail:gul
 
Singham said:
No beef, no phaast bowling, u don't know?Theory Invented in pakistan. lol
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By the beefy logic....Pakistan should have been great at soccer and athletics too like other beef eating countries?:moyo . So that logic is not logical;) but Pakistan socceer and atheletics ...less said better. Is it that the beef meeat produces only fast bowlers. Very selective beef eh?
Besides even if it was true...fast bowlers get smacked most of time by Indian batters so who wants to have an ambition of getting smacked all around park.
Also India has managed to win the worldcup without extra fastbowlers. What use is speed when it lets you down when you need it most.
One should just remembers Munaf patels clean bowling Razzaq in world cup 2011 semifinal to knowthat pace is not always good.
Fast bowlers win matches once in 10 matches...batters win the other 9 times
 
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munafpatel810 said:
By the beefy logic....Pakistan should have been great at soccer and athletics too like other beef eating countries?:moyo . So that logic is not logical;)
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As if India is a world beater in other sports. You people just lost 5-2 to Germany 2 days ago despite of having the lucrative hockey tamasha league.
 
Zamee said:
As if India is a world beater in other sports. You people just lost 5-2 to Germany 2 days ago despite of having the lucrative hockey tamasha league.
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Dada read the rest of his comment.. he is just trolling :))
 
Kamran khan was an intresting prospect as said by Shane Warne himself. Quite a few under19 players are coming up, they bowl good. Wish best for future, thats all we can do, unless one of us start training from today onward and make his way to the Indian team as a bowler :D
 
Singham said:
^The problem is the selection yaar. We have lot of bowlers who can bowl 140s. I can name 8 bowlers , yes, 8 bowlers, no kidding, who can bowl 140s consistently.

Umesh yadav
Varun aaron
Rahul Shukla
Abu nechim
Shammi ahmed
Ishant shamra
Parwinder Awanna
Veer Prathab Singh

But you know what the problem is? Our beloved captain Dhoni and the selection committee loves Praveen kumar and Vinay kumar who bowls at the pace of Anil kumble. This selection committee will be changed next year. We can hope better things next year.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen Shammi ahmed bowl so I won't comment. But I've seen the bolded ones bowl in domestic and IPL. No way are they 140+ consistently
 
abu nechim can bowl consistently around 140,Ishant used to bowl at that speed,Awana is around 135-145 kph bowler....

Looking forward to awana :D
 
Singham said:
^The problem is the selection yaar. We have lot of bowlers who can bowl 140s. I can name 8 bowlers , yes, 8 bowlers, no kidding, who can bowl 140s consistently.

Umesh yadav
Varun aaron
Rahul Shukla
Abu nechim
Shammi ahmed
Ishant shamra
Parwinder Awanna
Veer Prathab Singh

But you know what the problem is? Our beloved captain Dhoni and the selection committee loves Praveen kumar and Vinay kumar who bowls at the pace of Anil kumble. This selection committee will be changed next year. We can hope better things next year.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that the name of SRK on Veer-Zara :)) :yk
 
Future ke jo bhi aaye, I think Zaheer Khan's injuries and age has put him in a position where he is not that effective now, and I fear this is something irreversible.
We have to look for alternatives because I am losing all hopes now, even from a fit Zahir.
 
IamIndian said:
The truth is that India has better fast bowling stock than all other subcontinental teams..
Click to expand...
Sri Lanka is much much much better

Lasith Malinga, Dilhara Fernando, Thisara Perera, Angelo Mathews, Farveez Maharoof, Nuwan Kulasekara, Nuwan Pradeep, Dammika Prasad, Thilan Thushara (though I think he's stopped playing)...that is a very decent stock of fast/fastish bowlers, and easch of them has performed in intl cricket to varying degrees as comaprd to the hyped up India bowlers

Only Zaheer, Praveen & Pathan are decent from India, the rest are bad. Bad bad bad bad bad BAD
 
I think Zaheer's obvious successor is Umesh Yadav. His strike rate of 43 in Tests prove he is a strike bowler who will get you wickets quickly. And he's one of the fastest in the world currently (he hit 154 in Australia).
But more than half the matches he plays will be in the subcontinent on slow low flat batting tracks, which is a huge disadvantage to any fast bowler.
 
Agree with Centurion, you gotta see how Steyn was hammered in the subcontinent to understand that things won't be easy for Yadav in this geography.

He has to keep his morale high.
 
Statsman said:
Agree with Centurion, you gotta see how Steyn was hammered in the subcontinent to understand that things won't be easy for Yadav in this geography.

He has to keep his morale high.
Click to expand...
No chance for you to recover from depression in near feature:)
 
Ayyubjavvs said:
Sri Lanka is much much much better

Lasith Malinga, Dilhara Fernando, Thisara Perera, Angelo Mathews, Farveez Maharoof, Nuwan Kulasekara, Nuwan Pradeep, Dammika Prasad, Thilan Thushara (though I think he's stopped playing)...that is a very decent stock of fast/fastish bowlers, and easch of them has performed in intl cricket to varying degrees as comaprd to the hyped up India bowlers

Only Zaheer, Praveen & Pathan are decent from India, the rest are bad. Bad bad bad bad bad BAD
Click to expand...

PATHETIC POST. You know nothing about the rest of the Indian bowlers.Indian bowlers have done WAAAAAY better in TESTS in the last decade. most of SL bowlers you listed have been much worse than Indian bowlers in tests.lol. (they are good in odis though)
Sreesanth,Munaf,Balaji,RP Singh and even Ishant and Agarkar have won India tests on their own before becoming crap.
How many Lankan pacers have done that?
Only Kulasekara and Malinga are good odi bowlers. not in tests.
Only hype the Indians get is when they are new. they are discarded after they fail very easily. they are hardly over-hyped.
 
Statsman said:
Agree with Centurion, you gotta see how Steyn was hammered in the subcontinent to understand that things won't be easy for Yadav in this geography.
Click to expand...

That's precisely why I rate Wasim Akram as the Greatest Fast Bowler of all time. He took 414 Test wickets at an incredible average of 24, despite playing many of his matches in unhelpful subcontinental conditions.
 
At the moment zaheer khan is the only decent bowler in india and he has been around for ages .

Ashok dinda should have been at the olympics , could have won gold for india at the high jump event .
 
Under Dhoni, i have no hope as far as our bowling is concerned. :)





If any of you actually asks him about our pathetic bowling performances, he'd tell you all to chill and say the bowlers are doing just fine and are just unlucky. :yk
 
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Statsman said:
Haha, pretty harmless post by the munaf patel fan.

Might not be 9/10 but batsmen do win you more matches these days than "fast bowlers"...

care to check your reply :)
Click to expand...

in ODIs maybe on certain tracks , but in test matches bowlers still reign supreme, fast bowlers in particular , and test matches is where the problem is for india , in ODIs they can make up with their batting .
 
freelance_cricketer said:
If any of you actually asks him about our pathetic bowling performances, he'd tell you all to chill and say the bowlers are doing just fine and are just unlucky. :yk
Click to expand...

He does the same when batting fails on difficult pitches.
Pitch was not good for batting and by the time we made judgement, we lost too many wickets. Just a bad day. Chill. :))
 
kungfu90 said:
He does the same when batting fails on difficult pitches.
Pitch was not good for batting and by the time we made judgement, we lost too many wickets. Just a bad day. Chill. :))
Click to expand...

Yea he tries to be that cool coco all the time. Has its positives and negatives.
 
Some very pathetic posts in this thread that derail the thread to the extent where it just becomes a mudslinging battle. Next such post, will result in a ban
 
hope ..we did pretty decently actually in last 10 years its just that no one carried on :(
rp singh was so good in australia in 2008 look at him now
well yadav and shami are too good prospects for tests
aaron looks good for odis
honestly if they can even become decent bowlers i will be happy
 
ethan hunt said:
At the moment zaheer khan is the only decent bowler in india and he has been around for ages .

Ashok dinda should have been at the olympics , could have won gold for india at the high jump event .
Click to expand...

Maybe Chris Martin should have been at the olympics too for this very reason.
 
I really like this guy Sreenath Aravind. He used to be very bad but somehow has gained control and can swing the ball also. Bowls in mid 130s so isnt that quick and is 30+ so might not get a chance. Doesn't really deserve a thread so putting it here.

2 strange facts about him

1) Averages 22.xx in List A cricket, but so does Vinay
2) Bowls occasional left arm orthodox as well :sobers

I feel his action has a resemblance to Junaid Khan's.
 
Just stick with Umesh, Shami and Varun for however long you can. Don't bother trying trundlers.

What should be worrying are the spinners coming through.
 
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