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Jasprit Bumrah vs Hasan Ali

Hassan is better at the moment.
I am very satisfied after reading a post
In which indian bowler is being compared to pak bowler and there is not a big difference in thrir performances.
Hassan is a wicket taker who sometimes getd tonked.
Bumrah is not a genuine wicket taking bowler but he is more of a containing bowler who regularly takes 2 or 3 wickets and seldom gets tonked.
By indian standards bumrah is gold.
 
i think Bumrah is better as he is bowling with both new and old ball. However Hasan Ali is only effective with old ball.
 
IMO, Hasan has the edge. I also think he's Pakistan's best player currently although that is irrelevant in regards to this comparison. In addition to his bowling, Hasan has the ability to raise the team spirits when the going gets tough and has great fighting attitude lacking in a lot of our other players especially the batsmen. From what I've seen of Bumrah, overall, I think he's still behind Hasan.
 
Ali is better beyond any doubt. But as above poster said Bumrah is gold for an Indian standard.
For me Bumrah the test bowler is more important who can bowl with new ball and old both plus also can clean the tail. Because of his height and hit the deck action he will always get wickets in South Africa and Australia where traditionally India has been poor and can help India to win test matches.
 
So Jasprit Bumrah is the #1 ODI bowler today, #4 T20 bowler and did good in his first Test series too. Respect. :salute
 
Hasan has already been #1 odi bowler despite playing less games and debuting later than Bumrah. Hasan has also won his team an ICC tropy and was man of the series during that event. Hasan also has the better yorker and short ball. Hasan is clearly ahead.
 
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There are 2 types of bowlers in ODI cricket. The ones who bowl without cushion & the ones who do with the cushion.

The former do the thankless job of bowling in first 10 with field restrictions & last 10 slog overs.

Hasan Ali has bowled majority of his overs with lots of cushion in the middle period.

The bowlers who can bowl well in the first & last 10 overs can also bowl well in the middle period. But vice versa is rarely true. Middle over specialists find it much harder to bowl in first & last 10.

Now this is where genius of Jasprit Bumrah comes into the equation. The guy bowls majority of his overs in the most vulnerable period & yet maintains an economy rate of 4.64. Absolutely pure gold dust.
 
JustNotAFanOfThings said:
There are 2 types of bowlers in ODI cricket. The ones who bowl without cushion & the ones who do with the cushion.

The former do the thankless job of bowling in first 10 with field restrictions & last 10 slog overs.

Hasan Ali has bowled majority of his overs with lots of cushion in the middle period.

The bowlers who can bowl well in the first & last 10 overs can also bowl well in the middle period. But vice versa is rarely true. Middle over specialists find it much harder to bowl in first & last 10.

Now this is where genius of Jasprit Bumrah comes into the equation. The guy bowls majority of his overs in the most vulnerable period & yet maintains an economy rate of 4.64. Absolutely pure gold dust.
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Why doesn’t Hasan bowl in the first and last 10 overs? To be honest, these 2 periods also allow you to get more wickets. Of course, as you rightly mentioned, the economy rate does take a heavy beating.
 
sshakir411 said:
Hasan has already been #1 odi bowler despite playing less games and debuting later than Bumrah. Hasan has also won his team an ICC tropy and was man of the series during that event. Hasan also has the better yorker and short ball. Hasan is clearly ahead.
Click to expand...

Bumrah has played majority of his career on Indian ODI tracks. Averages 16 outside India, so the argument for number of matches doesn't quite hold. If anything, the extra matches Bumrah played in India only made his road to the #1 spot harder.
 
BlackShadow said:
Bumrah has played majority of his career on Indian ODI tracks. Averages 16 outside India, so the argument for number of matches doesn't quite hold. If anything, the extra matches Bumrah played in India only made his road to the #1 spot harder.
Click to expand...

16 average outside India due to SL and Zim bashing.
 
Instead of pointing out Bumrah having played on dead Indian wickets, lets speak about Hassan Ali. Out of total of 8 series, Hassan Ali has played 6 of the series in conditions suitable for pace bowling.

Bumrah has played almost all of the series in India! Still Bumrah's average is just 1 above Hassan! Let Hassan first prove himself in subcontinent wickets to see if Hassan is in the same league as Bumrah!
 
Rightarmfast said:
Instead of pointing out Bumrah having played on dead Indian wickets, lets speak about Hassan Ali. Out of total of 8 series, Hassan Ali has played 6 of the series in conditions suitable for pace bowling.

Bumrah has played almost all of the series in India! Still Bumrah's average is just 1 above Hassan! Let Hassan first prove himself in subcontinent wickets to see if Hassan is in the same league as Bumrah!
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Just compare what they did in the CT... :facepalm:

Bumrah flopped :))
 
babajee said:
16 average outside India due to SL and Zim bashing.
Click to expand...

Away average of 20.70 if you remove SL and Zimbabwe. Hasan averages 27.55 away if I remove SL, Zimbabwe and Ireland.

K.O. :kohli2

Expecting more clutching of straws now. :)))
 
BreadPakoda said:
Away average of 20.70 if you remove SL and Zimbabwe. Hasan averages 27.55 away if I remove SL, Zimbabwe and Ireland.

K.O. :kohli2

Expecting more clutching of straws now. :)))
Click to expand...

Yeah he had a bad tour in NZ. Hasan hasn’t even played Zimbabwe LMAO.
 
babajee said:
Lets see how Bumrah does on the pattas in England, Australia, New Zealand where Hasan has played.
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The pitches in recent South Africa series were pattas as well. He ended up being the best pacer with an economy rate of under 4. Yes under 4.
 
babajee said:
Lets see how Bumrah does on the pattas in England, Australia, New Zealand where Hasan has played.
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Yep. Lets see. I’m hoping for the best. He’s our only bet when it comes to fast bowlers in ODIs unless Kohli selects Shami over Bhuvi/Shardool Thakur/Unadkat.
 
babajee said:
Just compare what they did in the CT... :facepalm:

Bumrah flopped :))
Click to expand...

Hahahaha! I think the world ended for you guys on CT Finals. You seem to be on a repeat motion :))):))):)))

The world has moved on, but if you prefer to be there :) ! Like I said, let Hassan Ali perform in subcontinent wickets and have half as decent stats as Bumrah. I think he would deserve to be compared to Bumrah only after that.... Baaki sab Bakwas!:19::19:
 
Rightarmfast said:
Hahahaha! I think the world ended for you guys on CT Finals. You seem to be on a repeat motion :))):))):)))

The world has moved on, but if you prefer to be there :) ! Like I said, let Hassan Ali perform in subcontinent wickets and have half as decent stats as Bumrah. I think he would deserve to be compared to Bumrah only after that.... Baaki sab Bakwas!:19::19:
Click to expand...

Yeah and when you bring up past World cups it’s okay.

The fact is that Hasan already has the star performance in a tournament needed for a great bowler whereas Bumrah has choked in both tournaments he has played.

The deluded one is you if you think Bumrah is incomparable to Hasan. If anything it’s the other way round.
 
BlackShadow said:
Bumrah has played majority of his career on Indian ODI tracks. Averages 16 outside India, so the argument for number of matches doesn't quite hold. If anything, the extra matches Bumrah played in India only made his road to the #1 spot harder.
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LOL. wow...Bumrah should get a box of cookies form you. Indians clutching at straws. Bumrah can have his average of 16 outside India...he's still behind Hasan for the reasons I mentioned before.
 
babajee said:
Yeah and when you bring up past World cups it’s okay.

The fact is that Hasan already has the star performance in a tournament needed for a great bowler whereas Bumrah has choked in both tournaments he has played.

The deluded one is you if you think Bumrah is incomparable to Hasan. If anything it’s the other way round.
Click to expand...

Like I said, let him perform in all conditions to be good enough to be compared to Bumrah. As of now, he is a GTB!
 
Rightarmfast said:
Like I said, let him perform in all conditions to be good enough to be compared to Bumrah. As of now, he is a GTB!
Click to expand...
What green tracks has he gotten to play in? His three 5-fers came on a flat pitch in AUS, dry pitch in the WI, and a UAE pitch. His CT performances were aided by the dry conditions which allowed reverse swig but not to extravagant means. The fact is right now, Hasan is a better bowler than Bumrah in every way except for with the new ball. And that’s because he doesn’t get the new ball but he opens for Zalmi. Let’s see in the next 3-5 years.
 
LOL at Indians saying the world has moved on from CT and so should Pakistanis. Let’s remind everyone on this forum that whenever a Pakistan vs India debate comes up..the Indian chest thumping about 11-0 WC record never stops...they are so hung up on those WC victories that during world cups their largest tv channel makes a special ad for Pakistan and highlights the 11-0 record...and let’s not forget to add that it becomes national duty in India to celebrate these ads and try to rub it in to Pakistanis.

Sober up from your meaningless WC victories...at least Pakistan's victory in the CT won them an ICC trophy and the so called mighty Indian team was humiliated.
 
ManFan said:
What green tracks has he gotten to play in? His three 5-fers came on a flat pitch in AUS, dry pitch in the WI, and a UAE pitch. His CT performances were aided by the dry conditions which allowed reverse swig but not to extravagant means. The fact is right now, Hasan is a better bowler than Bumrah in every way except for with the new ball. And that’s because he doesn’t get the new ball but he opens for Zalmi. Let’s see in the next 3-5 years.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Hassan Ali has played almost series in bowling friendly conditions/ countries. Whereas Bumrah has the same average in difficult conditions. Hassan has a far way to go to be spoken in the same sentence as Bumrah. Cheers!
 
Rightarmfast said:
Like I said, let him perform in all conditions to be good enough to be compared to Bumrah. As of now, he is a GTB!
Click to expand...

When you have no logic left you start making stuff up. Goes to show the desperation. Please provide a list of the so called bullying Hasan has done at green tracks?
 
Rightarmfast said:
Exactly, Hassan Ali has played almost series in bowling friendly conditions/ countries. Whereas Bumrah has the same average in difficult conditions. Hassan has a far way to go to be spoken in the same sentence as Bumrah. Cheers!
Click to expand...

Flat pitches in Australia and CT were bowling freindly conditions? Please tell us how Bumrah did in the CT and how he's done in Aus? Indians seriously running out of depth....doesn't matter if you give yourself a username of "rightarmfast"....Indians still don't know anything about fast bowling.
 
sshakir411 said:
LOL. wow...Bumrah should get a box of cookies form you. Indians clutching at straws. Bumrah can have his average of 16 outside India...he's still behind Hasan for the reasons I mentioned before.
Click to expand...

What reason? He is not Pakistani?
 
Hasan is slower than bumrah in Average speed. His effort balls reached upto 145 km but bumrah reach upto 147 km. Bumrah is faster.
 
sshakir411 said:
Man...please make an effort to scroll up and see my earlier post. Also, if you want proof of Hasan bowling at 145 or 147...please pull up old matches and watch the entire spell.
Click to expand...

Bhai jaan

Bowling the odd ball at 145 is not fast. Effort balls. Hassan is mostly around 138-140.
 
sshakir411 said:
When you have no logic left you start making stuff up. Goes to show the desperation. Please provide a list of the so called bullying Hasan has done at green tracks?
Click to expand...

lolz... how many series has Hassan played in subcontinent? Go figure! :)
 
sshakir411 said:
Flat pitches in Australia and CT were bowling freindly conditions? Please tell us how Bumrah did in the CT and how he's done in Aus? Indians seriously running out of depth....doesn't matter if you give yourself a username of "rightarmfast"....Indians still don't know anything about fast bowling.
Click to expand...

Provide a list of series Hassan played in subcontinent and a list of series Bumrah played in subcontinent. Then compare their average. And then see the wicket difference and you will get to understand :) When people start running out of logic and reason, they start with personal attacks :)
 
sshakir411 said:
LOL at Indians saying the world has moved on from CT and so should Pakistanis. Let’s remind everyone on this forum that whenever a Pakistan vs India debate comes up..the Indian chest thumping about 11-0 WC record never stops...they are so hung up on those WC victories that during world cups their largest tv channel makes a special ad for Pakistan and highlights the 11-0 record...and let’s not forget to add that it becomes national duty in India to celebrate these ads and try to rub it in to Pakistanis.

Sober up from your meaningless WC victories...at least Pakistan's victory in the CT won them an ICC trophy and the so called mighty Indian team was humiliated.
Click to expand...

Meaningless WC victories? Real smart comment! Bravo!
 
Rightarmfast said:
lolz... how many series has Hassan played in subcontinent? Go figure! :)
Click to expand...

Rightarmfast said:
Provide a list of series Hassan played in subcontinent and a list of series Bumrah played in subcontinent. Then compare their average. And then see the wicket difference and you will get to understand :) When people start running out of logic and reason, they start with personal attacks :)
Click to expand...

You're the one calling Hasan a GTB..you need to provide facts to substantiate that claim. Playing more series in the subcontinent hardly proves Bumrah is better when he lacks the main fast bowling ingredients like a solid run up, action, and bouncer. Bumrah is an eye sore and has a weak short ball.
 
Guys like Bishop who actually knows quite a lot about fast bowling rates Hassan Ali but according to an armchair rightarmfast(who cannot bowl at 150k but can type at 200k speed) expert Hassan and Bumrah should not be put in the same sentence.
 
sshakir411 said:
Other than 1996 & 2011 when has it really been a knockout game with serious pressure? Even those were many years ago so Indians should have moved on by now.
Click to expand...
2003 iirc India knocked out Pakistan in that game. 2007 T20 WC final was also a pressure game.
 
Hasan will be a Giant player after a couple of years.

He's improving every skill. He'll become an aggressive batsman, a good fielder and a world class bowler. Might end uo as an ATG bowling allrounder.

Bumrah will remain in the shadow of Hasan, in terms of cricketing abilities.
 
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BreadPakoda said:
2003 iirc India knocked out Pakistan in that game. 2007 T20 WC final was also a pressure game.
Click to expand...

Fine...I'll give you those too but again it's been 15 years since 2003 and 11 years since 2007. Indian fans should really move on by now if they expect Pakistani fans to forget the CT win, which was less than an year ago.
 
Average ODI score in England since 1/1/2017: 290.4
Average ODI score in India since 1/1/2017: 291.3

England = Green pitches, best for fast-bowlers!
India = Flat pitches, worst for fast-bowlers!

:91:

The fact is that ODI pitches are almost always flat nowadays.
 
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Abdullah719 said:
Average ODI score in England since 1/12017: 290.4
Average ODI score in India since 1/12017: 291.3

England = Green pitches, best for fast-bowlers!
India = Flat pitches, worst for fast-bowlers!

:91:

The fact is that ODI pitches are almost always flat nowadays.
Click to expand...

Why are you bringing facts into the discussion? :ashwin
 
Both are fantastic bowlers, but I think Hasan edges it just a little bit. Bumrah clearly the better death bowler tho.
 
I would wait for both of them to at least play for another year before we compare. Both started playing around same time but again I will wait till they play at least 50 games each. We have seen players from both countries who start off with a bang but in the longer run become mediocre or disappear. This applies to both batsman and bowlers.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Average ODI score in England since 1/1/2017: 290.4
Average ODI score in India since 1/1/2017: 291.3

England = Green pitches, best for fast-bowlers!
India = Flat pitches, worst for fast-bowlers!

:91:

The fact is that ODI pitches are almost always flat nowadays.
Click to expand...

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/xT39D6nWKoV5QnCgKs" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/wwe-wrestling-xT39D6nWKoV5QnCgKs">via GIPHY</a></p>
 
It was obvious to everyone from the start that Bumrah was the better of the two. Rankings have only confirmed it. Bumrah is more versatile, capable of opening and bowling at the death. Despite bowling at times when batsmen are on a leatherhunt, Bumrah has an appreciably better economy.

But it's test matches where Hasan has been exposed. Struggled to make any impact against indifferent cowboys of West Indies I believe? Bumrah's quality shone through against a world class Saffer line up. I think he'd pull further ahead come the England tour even though hasan would bowl during the wet and helpful part of the summer.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Average ODI score in England since 1/1/2017: 290.4
Average ODI score in India since 1/1/2017: 291.3

England = Green pitches, best for fast-bowlers!
India = Flat pitches, worst for fast-bowlers!

:91:

The fact is that ODI pitches are almost always flat nowadays.
Click to expand...

Cute! As if spinners dont come into play in subcontinent wickets!
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Guys like Bishop who actually knows quite a lot about fast bowling rates Hassan Ali but according to an armchair rightarmfast(who cannot bowl at 150k but can type at 200k speed) expert Hassan and Bumrah should not be put in the same sentence.
Click to expand...

And what does Bishop say about Bumrah, mr know it all?
 
sshakir411 said:
Fine...I'll give you those too but again it's been 15 years since 2003 and 11 years since 2007. Indian fans should really move on by now if they expect Pakistani fans to forget the CT win, which was less than an year ago.
Click to expand...
Its been less than 7 years since 2011 and unfortunately we didn’t have a knock out encounter in 2015 WC or all the T20 world cups where India comfortably beat Pakistan in group stages.
When it comes to world cups there really isn’t any argument, tbh.
 
When it comes to CT, of course Pakistani fans cant “get over it” (why should they?) coz it was a high profile event’s final where they decimated a very good side. A perfect David vs. Goliath situation. I’ve seen Pakistan fans talk about a random 2009 CT encounter time and again to the point that it became extremely silly. This one at least has some context.

However basing every second argument around one match again looks silly.
 
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BreadPakoda said:
Its been less than 7 years since 2011 and unfortunately we didn’t have a knock out encounter in 2015 WC or all the T20 world cups where India comfortably beat Pakistan in group stages.
When it comes to world cups there really isn’t any argument, tbh.
Click to expand...

If you like past games. you can refer to the finals of the 1985 World Championship Trophy. Shastri and Srikkanth chased a target in the finals :amir3
 
Why should there always be bias, during comparison?

Learn to accept the truth.

And the truth is, Hassan is better than Bumrah.

Bumrah has to perform in upcoming tours in Australia and England.

If he does, surely he'd surpass Hassan.

Any sane person who knows about fast bowling and UNBIASED, would agree that Hassan is better atm.
 
So I started this thread so that fans can discuss and enjoy two young fast bowlers competing and appreciate the quality of both of them.. However it’s turned into another India Vs Pakistan thread with usual trolling and usual suspects diluting the quality of discussion..
 
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Rightarmfast said:
Cute! As if spinners dont come into play in subcontinent wickets!
Click to expand...

Pacers in England since 1/1/2017: Average 37.85
Pacers in India since 1/1/2017: Average 37.80

Oops, pacers average higher on the 'green tracks' of England. :(
 
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Any comparision between two above average or even great players will always have supporters of both trying to claim the other is inferior. Only player who is beyond comparision and the undisputed best in ODIs atm is Kohli.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Pacers in England since 1/1/2017: Average 37.85
Pacers in India since 1/1/2017: Average 37.80

Oops, pacers average higher on the 'green tracks' of England. :(
Click to expand...

Good! thanks :) Now how about New Zealand, Australia and West Indies? Hassan Ali has played his majority matches in England and these countries.. Or he hasnt ? :)
 
Green tracks, blue tracks What is this. Bumrah bowls yorkers at death anyway. He doesn't depend on tracks. Unlike some of the other comparisons this is a legit one. Bumrah is now no.1 ODI bowler. Hasan was sometime back. Now slipped down to 5. Two top ranking bowlers doing their job for their country. Their roles are different. Both are doing their job. But in couple of years we will know who has made the best progress.
 
Rightarmfast said:
Good! thanks :) Now how about New Zealand, Australia and West Indies? Hassan Ali has played his majority matches in England and these countries.. Or he hasnt ? :)
Click to expand...

Hasan's played the most number of ODIs in England whereas Bumrah has played the most in India which is why I was comparing with these benchmarks.

After England (9 ODIs, average 20), Hasan has played 8 ODIs in UAE where he averages 14 (pacers in UAE since 1/1/2017 average 31.31).

If you think England and UAE have green-tracks in ODIs which is why Hasan has done so well in these countries, there's nothing further to discuss.
 
BlackShadow said:
So Jasprit Bumrah is the #1 ODI bowler today, #4 T20 bowler and did good in his first Test series too. Respect. :salute
Click to expand...

He is a good bowler, but never at Hasan's grade. He relies on batsman hitting him to take wickets. Hasan choke the batsman out by bowling regular but tight n nippy balls.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Green tracks, blue tracks What is this. Bumrah bowls yorkers at death anyway. He doesn't depend on tracks. Unlike some of the other comparisons this is a legit one. Bumrah is now no.1 ODI bowler. Hasan was sometime back. Now slipped down to 5. Two top ranking bowlers doing their job for their country. Their roles are different. Both are doing their job. But in couple of years we will know who has made the best progress.
Click to expand...

It's a fair comparison and they are pretty close, though for me, Hasan wins because he did well in the only ICC tournament these two have played so far. Disagree with anyone who says that either is FAR ahead of the other.

As for statements about Hasan being a GTB... :))
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Green tracks, blue tracks What is this. Bumrah bowls yorkers at death anyway. He doesn't depend on tracks. Unlike some of the other comparisons this is a legit one. Bumrah is now no.1 ODI bowler. Hasan was sometime back. Now slipped down to 5. Two top ranking bowlers doing their job for their country. Their roles are different. Both are doing their job. But in couple of years we will know who has made the best progress.
Click to expand...

Yes, their roles are different Bumrah is Gullish. Hasan is McGrathish.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Hasan's played the most number of ODIs in England whereas Bumrah has played the most in India which is why I was comparing with these benchmarks.

After England (9 ODIs, average 20), Hasan has played 8 ODIs in UAE where he averages 14 (pacers in UAE since 1/1/2017 average 31.31).

If you think England and UAE have green-tracks in ODIs which is why Hasan has done so well in these countries, there's nothing further to discuss.
Click to expand...

Lolz, Hassan Ali has played 12 ODI's in Australia, WI and NZ combined. For a player who has played a max of 30 matches, 12 is a big no. Its only fair we look at all the nos and not selective. Unless it suits your narrative! :14:
 
Rightarmfast said:
Lolz, Hassan Ali has played 12 ODI's in Australia, WI and NZ combined. For a player who has played a max of 30 matches, 12 is a big no. Its only fair we look at all the nos and not selective. Unless it suits your narrative! :14:
Click to expand...

Ironic coming from someone who calls Hasan a GTB :)))

So it's not right to look at the bigger sample but we should look at the smaller one, and I'm the one being selective. OK.

Anyway, sure, why not. Hasan averages 26 in AUS/NZ/WI whereas the overall average for pacers in these countries since 2017 is 31.

Let me know how this proves he is a green-track bully.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Ironic coming from someone who calls Hasan a GTB :)))

So it's not right to look at the bigger sample but we should look at the smaller one, and I'm the one being selective. OK.

Anyway, sure, why not. Hasan averages 26 in AUS/NZ/WI whereas the overall average for pacers in these countries since 2017 is 31.

Let me know how this proves he is a green-track bully.
Click to expand...

Lolz... I would love to see the calculation how came to that figure now! Or shall we check the averages in NZ?
 
Abdullah719 said:
Statsguru is your friend.
Click to expand...

So I am asking again. Do we officially freeze on this fact presented by you that bowling and batting in England, Australia, WI and New Zealand is no different than bowling in India? Or scoring runs in India? This is what you implied... Lets hear from you!
 
[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] yaar, let the neighbors be. We all know you're the stat king but don't make them cry jigar. :)))
 
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Rightarmfast said:
Great. So without a word of appreciation from Ian Bishop, any pace bowler is officially not world class? Is that a golden rule?

Genuinely want to understand the logic here!
Click to expand...

No that is not a golden rule. But he knows more than a wannabe phaast bowling expert in this thread.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Average ODI score in England since 1/1/2017: 290.4
Average ODI score in India since 1/1/2017: 291.3

England = Green pitches, best for fast-bowlers!
India = Flat pitches, worst for fast-bowlers!

:91:

The fact is that ODI pitches are almost always flat nowadays.
Click to expand...

And whoever doesn't agree with this is delusional.
 
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