Jasprit Bumrah vs Hasan Ali

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Hasan Ali is clearly the better bowler, even in test cricket. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being delusional.

But Bumrah is no slouch either. He will be end up being an Indian great.

Good post. Calling spade a spade shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Usman Chadda]

May be you missed the fact that you brought the Spicy Pitches argument. Just showed you what pitch Hasan Ali bowled on.

I'm sorry, but I didn't realize both sides had finished batting on this pitch.

This argument will go round in circles until the sample size increases. Indians will see Bumrah as better, while Pakistanis will see Hasan as better. Whatever cricket I have watched, I can confidently say Hasan is much better than Bumrah and will prove it in the long run.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Did you read everything posted or just saw the thread title and posted your opinion. As per some of the Hasan fans, Hasan is way better than Bumrah. Hasan is like Virat and Bumrah is like Babar.

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] posted his opinion. If someone doesn't like IPL he will say it who are you to stop him/her? If someone thinks Hassan is better than Bumrah in tests then let them do it.

 

[Slim]

Bumrah's SR is 29. Thats good enough. He has two world class spinners in Chahal and Yadav to take wickets. He isnt a one man show like Hasan Ali.

And thats why they say jingoism is not good for your mental health. Exhibit A for imploding your own argument.

 

[Slim]

Bumrah for one is a pretty good bowler. One of the best India has to offer, actually close second to Bhuvi. However, Bumrah shouldnt be compared to Hassan whose miles ahead in terms of skill level.

 

[Sidilicious]

Did you read everything posted or just saw the thread title and posted your opinion. As per some of the Hasan fans, Hasan is way better than Bumrah. Hasan is like Virat and Bumrah is like Babar.

Its not too far from the truth though.

In ODIs, Bumrah is an amazing bowler. He is super effective and will win us games. But imagine India was defending 160 in an ODI, who is more likely to run through a batting line up and defend the target? Bumrah or Hasan? Luckily, for India, we dont get dismissed at low scores very often. We end up having to defend 270ish, and Bumrah is your man for that.

In tests, its clear that Hasan will be better bowler. Having said that, potential is nothing, and performance is the only measure. So, for now both are equal, but I expect Hasan to pull away. Just as I expect Rahul to pull away from Babar soon.

To be honest, even if Bumrah does end up being like Babar, I wont be too disappointed. Babar will be an Pakistani great, and to reach an India great level, Bumrah would need to do get close to Zaheer. I have seen too many bowlers fall after showing promise. I will take another Zak level player. We get 3 Zak level pace bowlers in our team, we will be one of the strongest bowling sides.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And thats why they say jingoism is not good for your mental health. Exhibit A for imploding your own argument.

Imploding my argument? LOL.

Rather you have a lack of understanding. Bumrah has to share his wickets with two other world class wicket taking bowlers so he wont be getting as many 4fers of 5fers as Hasan Ali who is literally a one man show.

 

[Slim]

Imploding my argument? LOL.

Rather you have a lack of understanding. Bumrah has to share his wickets with two other world class wicket taking bowlers so he wont be getting as many 4fers of 5fers as Hasan Ali who is literally a one man show.

So, chahal and yadav are world class? You keep digging your own grave.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its not too far from the truth though.

In ODIs, Bumrah is an amazing bowler. He is super effective and will win us games. But imagine India was defending 160 in an ODI, who is more likely to run through a batting line up and defend the target? Bumrah or Hasan? Luckily, for India, we dont get dismissed at low scores very often. We end up having to defend 270ish, and Bumrah is your man for that.

In tests, its clear that Hasan will be better bowler. Having said that, potential is nothing, and performance is the only measure. So, for now both are equal, but I expect Hasan to pull away. Just as I expect Rahul to pull away from Babar soon.

To be honest, even if Bumrah does end up being like Babar, I wont be too disappointed. Babar will be an Pakistani great, and to reach an India great level, Bumrah would need to do get close to Zaheer. I have seen too many bowlers fall after showing promise. I will take another Zak level player. We get 3 Zak level pace bowlers in our team, we will be one of the strongest bowling sides.

1.Why do you think Bumrah can run through sides? He has 3 4W hauls and 1 5W haul in Odis. Hasan Ali has 3 5W hauls and 1 4W haul. Considering that Bumrah has to share his wickets with spinners thats pretty much equal.

2.How is Hasan the better bowler in tests?By which measure?What has he done that Bumrah hasnot?

There was a time when Bumrah indeed was considered a LOI bowler only. But his performances in FC and then in the test series vs SA has showed people thats not the case.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So, chahal and yadav are world class? You keep digging your own grave.

Considering that Chahal is among top 10 ODI bowlers and Yadav in top 15 they are world class. May be you should ask the Saffers.

 

[saeed5646]

Imploding my argument? LOL.

Rather you have a lack of understanding. Bumrah has to share his wickets with two other world class wicket taking bowlers so he wont be getting as many 4fers of 5fers as Hasan Ali who is literally a one man show.

Chahal is world class ??are you sure about that tag me after asia cup 2018 for this post if hafeez and malik don.t toy with chahal world class leg spin and hammer him like ordinary spinner
Kuldeep is indeed specail but he is far from to be called worldclass as he is yet to play decent amount of matches

 

[emm-tee]

No i didnot. Bumrah has to share his wickets with two other wicket taking spinners. Hasan Ali is a pretty much a one man show.

One man show? Come on, forgot CT?

BCCI sent you an internal memo claiming this or was this just made up to suit your argument?

 

[Slim]

Considering that Chahal is among top 10 ODI bowlers and Yadav in top 15 they are world class. May be you should ask the Saffers.

I didnt know that your criteria for calling someone world class is so low. In your head, the whole Indian team must be world class going by that scale of yours.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

And Mohammad Abbas is better than both Hasan and Bumrah.

 

[saeed5646]

Considering that Chahal is among top 10 ODI bowlers and Yadav in top 15 they are world class. May be you should ask the Saffers.

Indeed saffers are best player of spin

 

[cricketjoshila]

Chahal is world class ??are you sure about that tag me after asia cup 2018 for this post if hafeez and malik don.t toy with chahal world class leg spin and hammer him like ordinary spinner
Kuldeep is indeed specail but he is far from to be called worldclass as he is yet to play decent amount of matches

Chahal's stats and his ODI rankings say he is world class at this point in time.

 

[emm-tee]

Did Waqar Younis win a MOT in a ICC tournament?

Regardless of that MOT you speak of, any team in the World will do anything to get someone like Waqar in their side so that question of yours is meaningless.

 

[emm-tee]

Thats what you see.

So to you, that action is not unusual at all? Got it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Regardless of that MOT you speak of, any team in the World will do anything to get someone like Waqar in their side so that question of yours is meaningless.

So Waqar was not MOT. That doesnt stop him from being a ATG. or does that argument only apply to Indians?

 

[cricketjoshila]

One man show? Come on, forgot CT? ��

BCCI sent you an internal memo claiming this or was this just made up to suit your argument?

So who are the others in the Pakistan team with atleast 30 ODI wickets(Half of Hasan Ali) and avgs below 25?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I didnt know that your criteria for calling someone world class is so low. In your head, the whole Indian team must be world class going by that scale of yours.

Considering the amount of hype Amir got on this forum, i will say my cricteria is pretty high.

Indian team is top 3 in all formats. Pretty Much world class.

 

[Slim]

Chahal's stats and his ODI rankings say he is world class at this point in time.

So, lets get this straight.

Someone who has barely played less than 30 ODIs and t20Is each. Someone who has not even debuted in tests is being called world class with the added condition of "at this point in time". First time i am hearing this line of argument, absolutely ridiculous.

World class status changes every day, keeps on getting more and more hilarious by the minute.

 

[ArsenalFC]

So Waqar was not MOT. That doesnt stop him from being a ATG. or does that argument only apply to Indians?

Waqar had something better than MOT - he had the most devastating peak for any test bowler.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So, lets get this straight.

Someone who has barely played less than 30 ODIs and t20Is each. Someone who has not even debuted in tests is being called world class with the added condition of "at this point in time". First time i am hearing this line of argument, absolutely ridiculous.

World class status changes every day, keeps on getting more and more hilarious by the minute.

We are discussing ODI stats of Bumrah here where he has to share wickets with Chahal and Kuldeep.

Yes,players dont perform at the same level throughout their career. And hence for players including Chahal Kuldeep Bumrah or Hasan Ali, the performance is at this point in time. Whoever continues the same for 3-4 years will be counted among the best of this generation and who ever goes onto do that for a decade or so will be among the ATGs.

Posting smileys on this thread wont change the stats of Chahal or Yadav.

 

[emm-tee]

So who are the others in the Pakistan team with atleast 30 ODI wickets(Half of Hasan Ali) and avgs below 25?

Bhumrah averages above 25 and Bhuvi is above 26. What's your point? Name the other game changers or wicket taking under 25 avg bowlers in your XI. I'll wait...

 

[cricketjoshila]

Waqar had something better than MOT - he had the most devastating peak for any test bowler.

Peak isnt the only thing. Waqar also failed againist the two strongest batting line ups of his time. India and Aus. But that doesnt take away the fact that he is a ATG.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bhumrah averages above 25 and Bhuvi is above 26. What's your point? Name the other game changers or wicket taking under 25 avg bowlers in your XI. I'll wait...

Haai? This is ODI cricket i am talking about. Chahal doesnt even play test cricket. In ODIs Bumrah has a SR of 29. A 29 SR in Tests is literally unheard of.

 

[Slim]

We are discussing ODI stats of Bumrah here where he has to share wickets with Chahal and Kuldeep.

Yes,players dont perform at the same level throughout their career. And hence for players including Chahal Kuldeep Bumrah or Hasan Ali, the performance is at this point in time. Whoever continues the same for 3-4 years will be counted among the best of this generation and who ever goes onto do that for a decade or so will be among the ATGs.

Posting smileys on this thread wont change the stats of Chahal or Yadav.

Although your line of argument is ridiculous but lets entertain a thought:

So, Muhammad Amir has been in the pakistani team since 2010 keeping an average of almost less than 30 in all formats ( less than 20 in t20Is) and yet you mocked him? Considering he has managed to keep this standard for a long time, why isnt he world class by your standards?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Although your line of argument is ridiculous but lets entertain a thought:

So, Muhammad Amir has been in the pakistani team since 2010 keeping an average of almost less than 30 in all formats ( less than 20 in t20Is) and yet you mocked him? Considering he has managed to keep this standard for a long time, why isnt he world class by your standards?

Amir was banned for 5 years.

Out of his 101 test wickets. 50 were taken after his ban at a avg of 35 plus.

Out of his 57 Odi wickets 32 were taken after his ban at a avg of 32.90

Hardly world class stuff.

Thats why i called Hasan Ali a one man show.

So the hype on PP comparing Amir with Wasim is rightly mocked.

 

[emm-tee]

Chahal's stats and his ODI rankings say he is world class at this point in time.

So you ask me to name you one bowler other than Hassan who has played more than 30 ODI and averages below 25 but to satisfy your argument, Chahal is world class but has only played 23 matches?

Its fans like yourself that give the masses a bad name.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Hassan is better, and WILL be.

We indians, don't have the culture to groom a pace bowler.

 

[Sidilicious]

1.Why do you think Bumrah can run through sides? He has 3 4W hauls and 1 5W haul in Odis. Hasan Ali has 3 5W hauls and 1 4W haul. Considering that Bumrah has to share his wickets with spinners thats pretty much equal.

2.How is Hasan the better bowler in tests?By which measure?What has he done that Bumrah hasnot?

There was a time when Bumrah indeed was considered a LOI bowler only. But his performances in FC and then in the test series vs SA has showed people thats not the case.

Its not about stats here. But if you compare wickets/matches, Hasan is ahead. Bumrah does get wickets, but a lot of them are in the death overs, where he is one of the best in the business. But Hasan can deliver in the middle overs, which are not Bumrah's forte.

Again, its not like Hasan in Wasim, and other Dodda Ganesh in ODIs. Not a huge difference between them in ODIs, and I would put them in the same tier, with Hasan a bit ahead.

In Tests, I said, as of now, they are at same level, novices. But watching him bowl, Hasan seems the bowler who will achieve more out of the two in test cricket. He has more tricks up his sleeve. Its the same feeling I get when I see Rahul and Babar bat. Its clear who is more likely to end up as the better batsman.

I might be proven wrong, but in terms of skills, Hasan is clearly the better bowler.

 

[amax]

too Early , I hope both perform well for their countries.

 

[Hawkeye]

Bumrah for one is a pretty good bowler. One of the best India has to offer, actually close second to Bhuvi. However, Bumrah shouldnt be compared to Hassan whose miles ahead in terms of skill level.

Hassan is better, and WILL be.

We indians, don't have the culture to groom a pace bowler.

Good to see netural posts by parosis, [MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] as well.

Hate doesn't lead you anywhere. You don't see objective facts.

Hassan Ali is miles ahead and a better bowler.

 

[Send1983]

Lol some of you are so sensitive and can't even take anything against India. I doubt whether some of you can even take criticism in your lives. You are so defensive and fake nationalists. Also Pyjama league fans should be the last one to question other's cricketing knowledge.

I just gave an example of comparing Babar with Kohli even then you got offended. There is no point explaining it to you popcorn cricket fans.

Bumrah is a beast of a bowler and hassan ali is nowhere near him. Are you happy now?

expected this response from you because you did not have proper answer. You dont even know how big Kohli is, you are equating him with Hasan who mostly played Pyjama cricket, playing his second test match.
lol at criticism. what you are doing is trolling.

 

[Send1983]

[MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] posted his opinion. If someone doesn't like IPL he will say it who are you to stop him/her? If someone thinks Hassan is better than Bumrah in tests then let them do it.

How did IPL come here in this discussion..

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Considering that Chahal is among top 10 ODI bowlers and Yadav in top 15 they are world class. May be you should ask the Saffers.

Yes the depleted SA side that India just defeated.

Ajmal took wickets against the likes of Kallis,Smith,De Villiers,Du Plessis etc that does not maje him world class

 

[Suleiman]

I think Bums is better in t20 but Hasan in the other 2 formats.

 

[saeed5646]

expected this response from you because you did not have proper answer. You dont even know how big Kohli is, you are equating him with Hasan who mostly played Pyjama cricket, playing his second test match.
lol at criticism. what you are doing is trolling.

Lol it was compliment to kohli where he mention him as a example how to differniate between a great player and good player .some of you guys are too much sensitive

 

[Send1983]

Lol it was compliment to kohli where he mention him as a example how to differniate between a great player and good player .some of you guys are too much sensitive

How is Hasan great and Bumrah is good?

I can say the same if I don’t have to back my statement with anyth8ng.

 

[saeed5646]

How is Hasan great and Bumrah is good?

I can say the same if I don’t have to back my statement with anyth8ng.

kohli vs hasan ali wrong comparison
hasan vs bumrah right comparison .he did not compare hasan ali with kohli.please don.t bash hasan ali on wrong assumption which doesnot exist you have make it your own

 

[aloo paratha]

Yes the depleted SA side that India just defeated.

Ajmal took wickets against the likes of Kallis,Smith,De Villiers,Du Plessis etc that does not maje him world class

ok.. Don't get ahead of yourself...

 

[dauntless]

LOL! ugliest action ever being compared to babbar sher hasan! He is way way ahead of that ugliest action guy. This thread should be deleted.

 

[ManFan]

A guy who has bullied Zimbabwe and SL is being compared to a guy who has helped PAK to win against ENG, IND, SA and took a 5-fer’ in AUS on his first tour there.

Not to mention, having had the best rookie year since Collin Miller.

CT Win
Most ODI wickets
CT POTT
3 5-fers’
ICC Emerging Player of the Year
PCB Emerging Player of the Year

If he was Indian, he would have received a Bollywood contract and lavish rewards from the government, including a dinner with the PM.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

I'm loving this thread as it's actual competition. Hasan raised the stakes yesterday, and we'll see how Bumrah does in England later this summer. I think Hasan Ali is the single most exciting thing to happen to ODI cricket for quite sometime. A bowler that made things happen in the middle overs, that otherwise meandered. Bumrah raised the stakes with his death bowling.

Now, it will be fun to see how they go in real cricket!

 

[Monsee]

Peak isnt the only thing. Waqar also failed againist the two strongest batting line ups of his time. India and Aus. But that doesnt take away the fact that he is a ATG.

When it suits your argument, same Indian batting lineup was one of the weakest and relied too much on Tendulkar; which way is it then?

I am yet to see an Indian accept they had a world class batting lineup in the early days of Tendulkar before Dravid and Ganguly became regulars

 

[Monsee]

Watching Hassan bowl today and after Wasim and one of the presenters spoke to him after the match, I realised that he had not bowled much with a Duke bowl and was greatly impressed by it and told Wasim about his impressions as well!

And while just being exposed to that ball, he was bowling like a 20-30 tests old player who had control over his whole game: excellent upright seam, the changes in paces, the once in a while almost 90 MPH ball, extra lift (better than almost all who bowled today), and the thinking mind and smooth as butter run up and action etc.

May he stay healthy and fit for a while (Ameen), he is gonna win us a ton of games alongwith Abbas who should be a must for ODI's as well considering how he hates giving away runs. He dominates most/all batsmen and usually averages less than 2 runs per over with 3-4 wickets in every innings!

 

[Send1983]

When it suits your argument, same Indian batting lineup was one of the weakest and relied too much on Tendulkar; which way is it then?

I am yet to see an Indian accept they had a world class batting lineup in the early days of Tendulkar before Dravid and Ganguly became regulars

In subcontinent, Indian batting lineup was as good as any in 90s. Sachin was a lone warrior in overseas games. We had Sidhu, Azhar, Kambli, etc to score runs on slow spinning pitches.

 

[Syed1]

Watching Hassan bowl today and after Wasim and one of the presenters spoke to him after the match, I realised that he had not bowled much with a Duke bowl and was greatly impressed by it and told Wasim about his impressions as well!

And while just being exposed to that ball, he was bowling like a 20-30 tests old player who had control over his whole game: excellent upright seam, the changes in paces, the once in a while almost 90 MPH ball, extra lift (better than almost all who bowled today), and the thinking mind and smooth as butter run up and action etc.

May he stay healthy and fit for a while (Ameen), he is gonna win us a ton of games alongwith Abbas who should be a must for ODI's as well considering how he hates giving away runs. He dominates most/all batsmen and usually averages less than 2 runs per over with 3-4 wickets in every innings!

Abbas is pretty mediocre in LOIs

 

[Send1983]

I'm loving this thread as it's actual competition. Hasan raised the stakes yesterday, and we'll see how Bumrah does in England later this summer. I think Hasan Ali is the single most exciting thing to happen to ODI cricket for quite sometime. A bowler that made things happen in the middle overs, that otherwise meandered. Bumrah raised the stakes with his death bowling.

Now, it will be fun to see how they go in real cricket!

Sensible post. It’s hyperbole saying Hassan is way better than Bumrah. Both are pretty equal at this time.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I thought you were a stats guy...

I am a stats guy bro

For the purposes of keeping it rational and along the lines of logic and reason I would like to make a small contribution to this thread based on nothing but objective facts. Since we all know that when it comes to fast bowling the best judge of a bowlers ability is when and how they perform in conditions that are not suited to them. For this reason let's look at some numbers (ODIs since sample size is bigger):

Overall Hasan has played 30 games in which he's amassed 62 wickets at 21.40 a piece with an Econ of 5.29 and an SR of 24.2. In all these games hes taken3 5fers 1 4fer AND 12 3fers

Overall Bumrah has played 37 games (7 more than Hasan) in which he's amassed at 64 wickets (only 2 more than Hasan) at 22.50 a piece. His Econ is 4.64 with a SR of 29.0. He's taken ]1 5Fer 3 4Fers and only 2 3fers

Anyone with any sense of how stats work would identify that Hasan is the superior bowler here, he's got more wickets at a better SR and if Hasan isn't taking 5 or 4 fers then he literally takes 3 wickets every other game. Bumrah on the other hand only has 2 3fers as compared to Hasan's 12. This also implies that if Bumrah doesn't have an all star day he has not contigency and goes missing while if Hasan isn't doing a 5/4 wicket haul he makes sure that 33% of the opposition scalps are at least secured individually by him alone.

Now lets see how they fare in home conditions where seam bowling ideally should be touted as difficult due to flat decks.

Bumrah has played 17 Games in India in which he's bowled around 147 overs (approximately) and averages 29.88 (which is 7.38 higher than his career average). He also has a SR of 33.8 (almost 4 points higher than his career SR as well)

In Contrast Hasan has played 12 games in the UAE and average 14.70 (which is 6.70 less than his career average). His SR in these games is 21.8 (again 2.4 less than his career SR). Another very neat facet is that five 3fers (out of overall 12) Hasan has aquired have come on the dead pitches of the UAE and he's also taken a 5 fer here as well.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Another very interesting facet which I recorded from these stats is the claim that Hasan is a one-man show If you divide the total number of overs bowled by matches played than both Hasan and Bumrah's average number of overs per innings comes between 8.34-8.36 which literally means that both of them have the same workload for their teams total overs in an ODI innings.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its not about stats here. But if you compare wickets/matches, Hasan is ahead. Bumrah does get wickets, but a lot of them are in the death overs, where he is one of the best in the business. But Hasan can deliver in the middle overs, which are not Bumrah's forte.

Again, its not like Hasan in Wasim, and other Dodda Ganesh in ODIs. Not a huge difference between them in ODIs, and I would put them in the same tier, with Hasan a bit ahead.

In Tests, I said, as of now, they are at same level, novices. But watching him bowl, Hasan seems the bowler who will achieve more out of the two in test cricket. He has more tricks up his sleeve. Its the same feeling I get when I see Rahul and Babar bat. Its clear who is more likely to end up as the better batsman.

I might be proven wrong, but in terms of skills, Hasan is clearly the better bowler.

1. How will Bumrah get wickets in middle overs when he doesnt bowl in those overs. He bowls in powerplays and at the death. Hasan Ali bowls in the middle overs.

2. What tricks does Hasan Ali has that Bumrah doesnot?

These skills/talent are not measurable. A great bowler once said that James Anderson will be the better bowler as he had more "skills" than Steyn. We know who has done better.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm loving this thread as it's actual competition. Hasan raised the stakes yesterday, and we'll see how Bumrah does in England later this summer. I think Hasan Ali is the single most exciting thing to happen to ODI cricket for quite sometime. A bowler that made things happen in the middle overs, that otherwise meandered. Bumrah raised the stakes with his death bowling.

Now, it will be fun to see how they go in real cricket!

Agree with this actually. They are pretty equal now. Bumrah did well in SA. Hasan has done well in the one innings he bowled in England.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So you ask me to name you one bowler other than Hassan who has played more than 30 ODI and averages below 25 but to satisfy your argument, Chahal is world class but has only played 23 matches?

Its fans like yourself that give the masses a bad name.

I said more than 30 Odi wickets. You need to read carefully.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

you are one of those who want to troll indian fans here. but this is little too much. either you are trolling or you are lacking cricket knowledge here.

You should first learn to respect other's opinions. You can't force people to have a same opinion like yours. Just look at your post who started blabbering nonsense here? Why can't you post your opinion without questioning someone's intelligence, cricket knowledge or calling him a troll just because of a different opinion than yours? Is it that hard to call spade a spade for you?

I find Hassan Ali better than Bumrah. Do whatever you want to do.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

You should first learn to respect other's opinions. You can't force people to have a same opinion like yours. Just look at your post who started blabbering nonsense here? Why can't you post your opinion without questioning someone's intelligence, cricket knowledge or calling him a troll just because of a different opinion than yours? Is it that hard to call spade a spade for you?

I find Hassan Ali better than Bumrah. Do whatever you want to do.

[MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] actually people are so immature. They don't understand the meaning of a forum. People on both sides of the boundary, try to prove they are right.
When forum is not to prove urself, but rather to give ur opinion.

People mostly call others like trolls, non sense and fake citizen, because they feel insecure.

There is nothing wrong in accepting, that player of the opposition is better.

I have been following this forum since years, but recently some new posters (from both sides), are turning every thread into a debate and even taking personal digs, as they are trying hard to make a stamp on this forum.

Again it's what it is, we should keep moving.

Be cool bro.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Its not too far from the truth though.

In ODIs, Bumrah is an amazing bowler. He is super effective and will win us games. But imagine India was defending 160 in an ODI, who is more likely to run through a batting line up and defend the target? Bumrah or Hasan? Luckily, for India, we dont get dismissed at low scores very often. We end up having to defend 270ish, and Bumrah is your man for that.

In tests, its clear that Hasan will be better bowler. Having said that, potential is nothing, and performance is the only measure. So, for now both are equal, but I expect Hasan to pull away. Just as I expect Rahul to pull away from Babar soon.

To be honest, even if Bumrah does end up being like Babar, I wont be too disappointed. Babar will be an Pakistani great, and to reach an India great level, Bumrah would need to do get close to Zaheer. I have seen too many bowlers fall after showing promise. I will take another Zak level player. We get 3 Zak level pace bowlers in our team, we will be one of the strongest bowling sides.

Glad someone understood the point I was making. I wasn't trying to downplay Bumrah's performances but those who have followed cricket for too long know which way this comparison will go.

I will make it simpler for those particurlarly [MENTION=146753]Send1983[/MENTION] who are not getting it. We have a history of producing batting superstars whereas Pakistan has bowling superstars. Hassan Ali is a bigger star/match winner than Babar in Pakistan, not even a Pakistani fan will deny it. Likewise Kohli is better than anyone in the Indian team. So whats wrong in saying that Kohli(Hassan) vs Babbar(Bumrah)? They are two different players but have the same impact, match winning abilities. Hassan will win this battle against Bumrah even though their stats might be the same at this point.

I also think that KL Rahul will be a bigger player than Babar once he started playing regularly for India. Now figure that out why do I think so?

 

[786pk]

I am a stats guy bro

For the purposes of keeping it rational and along the lines of logic and reason I would like to make a small contribution to this thread based on nothing but objective facts. Since we all know that when it comes to fast bowling the best judge of a bowlers ability is when and how they perform in conditions that are not suited to them. For this reason let's look at some numbers (ODIs since sample size is bigger):

Overall Hasan has played 30 games in which he's amassed 62 wickets at 21.40 a piece with an Econ of 5.29 and an SR of 24.2. In all these games hes taken3 5fers 1 4fer AND 12 3fers

Overall Bumrah has played 37 games (7 more than Hasan) in which he's amassed at 64 wickets (only 2 more than Hasan) at 22.50 a piece. His Econ is 4.64 with a SR of 29.0. He's taken ]1 5Fer 3 4Fers and only 2 3fers

Anyone with any sense of how stats work would identify that Hasan is the superior bowler here, he's got more wickets at a better SR and if Hasan isn't taking 5 or 4 fers then he literally takes 3 wickets every other game. Bumrah on the other hand only has 2 3fers as compared to Hasan's 12. This also implies that if Bumrah doesn't have an all star day he has not contigency and goes missing while if Hasan isn't doing a 5/4 wicket haul he makes sure that 33% of the opposition scalps are at least secured individually by him alone.

Now lets see how they fare in home conditions where seam bowling ideally should be touted as difficult due to flat decks.

Bumrah has played 17 Games in India in which he's bowled around 147 overs (approximately) and averages 29.88 (which is 7.38 higher than his career average). He also has a SR of 33.8 (almost 4 points higher than his career SR as well)

In Contrast Hasan has played 12 games in the UAE and average 14.70 (which is 6.70 less than his career average). His SR in these games is 21.8 (again 2.4 less than his career SR). Another very neat facet is that five 3fers (out of overall 12) Hasan has aquired have come on the dead pitches of the UAE and he's also taken a 5 fer here as well.

Top post, no argument left.

 

[Sidilicious]

I am a stats guy bro

For the purposes of keeping it rational and along the lines of logic and reason I would like to make a small contribution to this thread based on nothing but objective facts. Since we all know that when it comes to fast bowling the best judge of a bowlers ability is when and how they perform in conditions that are not suited to them. For this reason let's look at some numbers (ODIs since sample size is bigger):

Overall Hasan has played 30 games in which he's amassed 62 wickets at 21.40 a piece with an Econ of 5.29 and an SR of 24.2. In all these games hes taken3 5fers 1 4fer AND 12 3fers

Overall Bumrah has played 37 games (7 more than Hasan) in which he's amassed at 64 wickets (only 2 more than Hasan) at 22.50 a piece. His Econ is 4.64 with a SR of 29.0. He's taken ]1 5Fer 3 4Fers and only 2 3fers

Anyone with any sense of how stats work would identify that Hasan is the superior bowler here, he's got more wickets at a better SR and if Hasan isn't taking 5 or 4 fers then he literally takes 3 wickets every other game. Bumrah on the other hand only has 2 3fers as compared to Hasan's 12. This also implies that if Bumrah doesn't have an all star day he has not contigency and goes missing while if Hasan isn't doing a 5/4 wicket haul he makes sure that 33% of the opposition scalps are at least secured individually by him alone.

Now lets see how they fare in home conditions where seam bowling ideally should be touted as difficult due to flat decks.

Bumrah has played 17 Games in India in which he's bowled around 147 overs (approximately) and averages 29.88 (which is 7.38 higher than his career average). He also has a SR of 33.8 (almost 4 points higher than his career SR as well)

In Contrast Hasan has played 12 games in the UAE and average 14.70 (which is 6.70 less than his career average). His SR in these games is 21.8 (again 2.4 less than his career SR). Another very neat facet is that five 3fers (out of overall 12) Hasan has aquired have come on the dead pitches of the UAE and he's also taken a 5 fer here as well.

There are many arguments for why Hasan is a better bowler, but the stats you posted above do not provide the truth.

1. You quoted the SR and Average, for both, why not account for the significant gap in ER. Hasan's is 5.29, compared to Bumrah's 4.64. Surely Bumrah should catch up with those numbers?

2. You quoted the stats in UAE and India, and thus concluded that Hasan is better. Why did you not account for the fact that average scores in ODIs in India are much higher than UAE. So, it is natural that Bumrah's average would be greater than Hasan's.

Why did you not account for their away average? Or their average against nations that are top 6 in the world?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

There are many arguments for why Hasan is a better bowler, but the stats you posted above do not provide the truth.

1. You quoted the SR and Average, for both, why not account for the significant gap in ER. Hasan's is 5.29, compared to Bumrah's 4.64. Surely Bumrah should catch up with those numbers?

2. You quoted the stats in UAE and India, and thus concluded that Hasan is better. Why did you not account for the fact that average scores in ODIs in India are much higher than UAE. So, it is natural that Bumrah's average would be greater than Hasan's.

Why did you not account for their away average? Or their average against nations that are top 6 in the world?

I have presented the numbers without bias or error and they speak for themselves, I will not force my opinion upon you can hence you can draw up any conclusion you might want from them as well.

If you believe that Bumrah's lower Econ holds a higher value as compared Hasan's avg and SR then I believe that's your preogative! I for one would like to have a bowler who takes wickets and takes then quickly (SR).

 

[Sidilicious]

you made a ridiculous comment without even checking. now you are trying to justify it. If you think hasan and bumrah are in same league, how is this statement Hasan way better than Bumrah is correct?

guy above said Hasan is like Kohli and Bumrah is like Babar. is he not trolling here?

I have seen the statement from [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] and I am not sure why are you getting so upset. I have been here long enough to know how this forums works.

Just because some Indian fan might not agree with you or a Pakistani fan may claim that Hasan is wayyy better than Bumrah in ODIs, I will not change my opinion to counter them. My opinion will remain the same.

As for the discussion in hand, taken tests and ODIs into account, I believe that Hasan is better than Bumrah. I believe that despite the stats at the moment, Hasan will pull away from Bumrah, just as Rahul will surpass Babar.

 

[Sidilicious]

I have presented the numbers without bias or error and they speak for themselves, I will not force my opinion upon you can hence you can draw up any conclusion you might want from them as well.

If you believe that Bumrah's lower Econ holds a higher value as compared Hasan's avg and SR then I believe that's your preogative! I for one would like to have a bowler who takes wickets and takes then quickly (SR).

I do believe that Hasan is the better bowler. But I am arguing against your usage of the stats.

Yes, SR is pretty important, but in this day and age, such a significant gap of ER is also significant. Especially if you play in India, which is full of pattas.

The other thing I am arguing is you selectively taking the stats for UAE and India, without taking into account the vast difference in the conditions. Stats taken selectively can provide a wrong picture.

The difference in Bumrah and Hasan cannot be argues with Stats. There isn't a significant statistical gap between the two, but its more to do with the skill and effectiveness.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Bumrah has the more aesthetically pleasing action

 

[Sidilicious]

1. How will Bumrah get wickets in middle overs when he doesnt bowl in those overs. He bowls in powerplays and at the death. Hasan Ali bowls in the middle overs.

2. What tricks does Hasan Ali has that Bumrah doesnot?

These skills/talent are not measurable. A great bowler once said that James Anderson will be the better bowler as he had more "skills" than Steyn. We know who has done better.

As I said
1. Because of Hasan's effectiveness in the middle overs, he is going to help Pakistan defend low totals, something Bumrah alone cant do. Bumrah will be more effective when he will have totals of 250+.

When defending low totals, you need to take wickets in the early overs and continue the pressure in the middle overs. Pakistan can do that from Hasan's help. Bumrah cant change games in the middle overs.

2. Skill is not measurable, but Hasan seems an allround better bowler than Bumrah. Just as Rahul seems an all-round better batsman than Babar.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Chahal is world class ??are you sure about that tag me after asia cup 2018 for this post if hafeez and malik don.t toy with chahal world class leg spin and hammer him like ordinary spinner
Kuldeep is indeed specail but he is far from to be called worldclass as he is yet to play decent amount of matches

If shadab is world class then so is kuldeep.
Shadab 's bowling has been ordinary.
Shadab is a better batsman though.

 

[BlackShadow]

When Bumrah does well, the general sentiment here is.. "it is too early to compare them at this stage in their career, let them play enough matches."

When Hasan does well, the debate is over. Hasan >>>> Bumrah :

 

[cricketjoshila]

As I said
1. Because of Hasan's effectiveness in the middle overs, he is going to help Pakistan defend low totals, something Bumrah alone cant do. Bumrah will be more effective when he will have totals of 250+.

When defending low totals, you need to take wickets in the early overs and continue the pressure in the middle overs. Pakistan can do that from Hasan's help. Bumrah cant change games in the middle overs.

2. Skill is not measurable, but Hasan seems an allround better bowler than Bumrah. Just as Rahul seems an all-round better batsman than Babar.

1. Bumrah can change the game in first 10 0vers. If chasing 180 the team scores 70 for no lods in 1st 10 then rest is not difficult. Thats why early wickets are important.

2. Bhai firstly tell me what is this all round bowler. Secondly having mors skills doesnt mean better performance.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Don't know why this thread is almost into it's 5th page. Hasan is better than Bumrah but Bumrah is no slouch either.

 

[Anuj25]

It's too early to say if any of them is a champion bowler. They have both performed well so far and hopefully continue to do so.
Hasan Ali seems mentally a bit stronger so might end up being better but you never know Cricket is a Funny Game. For every Sachin there is a Vinod Kambli

 

[Sidilicious]

Don't know why this thread is almost into it's 5th page. Hasan is better than Bumrah but Bumrah is no slouch either.

And this is where the thread should stop.

But I reckon everytime either of them take a wicket, it will be bumped.

 

[aloo paratha]

Don't know why this thread is almost into it's 5th page. Hasan is better than Bumrah but Bumrah is no slouch either.

Exactly. Both are good but it's clear who is better especially in tests.

 

[Monsee]

Bumrah has the more aesthetically pleasing action

What?

If that is 'aesthetically pleasing' than a Suzuki FX is better looking car than a Mercedez Benz

 

[emm-tee]

What?

If that is 'aesthetically pleasing' than a Suzuki FX is better looking car than a Mercedez Benz

You missed the sarcasm there...

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Hasan is the best bowler in the world right now. Bumrah is a champions trophy final flop. How can you even compare the two. Find another comparison.

 

[Monsee]

You missed the sarcasm there...

What, Bumrah has sarcasm as well, man!

 

[Hawkeye]

What?

If that is 'aesthetically pleasing' than a Suzuki FX is better looking car than a Mercedez Benz

Bhai you missed the subtle sarcasm.

 

[world cup captain]

I have not seen much of Bumrah but from what I have seen, he is a terrific limited overs bowler who I would take over Junaid Khan. However, when compared to Hasan, ability to pick up wickets helps a team more than blocking runs (which can lead to losing wickets but not a guarantee).

 

[ArsenalFC]

expected this response from you because you did not have proper answer. You dont even know how big Kohli is, you are equating him with Hasan who mostly played Pyjama cricket, playing his second test match.
lol at criticism. what you are doing is trolling.

Nah it's called holding an opinion without looking at your tinted glasses i.e. impartiality.

It's this type of mindset that Indians need to change, so that they can change the way BCCI has been "bullying others" (Manohar's words not mine) to serve for the best interests cricket (for example allowing cricket to take place in the Olympics for the good of the growth of this sport) rather than just serving themselves.

 

[ArsenalFC]

1. Bumrah can change the game in first 10 0vers. If chasing 180 the team scores 70 for no lods in 1st 10 then rest is not difficult. Thats why early wickets are important.

2. Bhai firstly tell me what is this all round bowler. Secondly having mors skills doesnt mean better performance.

Agreed like the no ball to Fakhar Zaman in the opening powerplay - game changing indeed!