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Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April [Post #1698]
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shaz619
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The Dark Knight Rises
Not surprised by the result to be honest. He has massive support in my city, his supporters have campaigned hard. Alan Moore had got behind him to:
http://momentumnorthants.org.uk/alan-moore-statement/
Hopefully, members of the Labour Party can actually focus their efforts towards the important stuff! I agree that this leadership contest was pathetic on all levels.
The Dark Knight Rises
Not surprised by the result to be honest. He has massive support in my city, his supporters have campaigned hard. Alan Moore had got behind him to:
http://momentumnorthants.org.uk/alan-moore-statement/
Hopefully, members of the Labour Party can actually focus their efforts towards the important stuff! I agree that this leadership contest was pathetic on all levels.
@ahaz619 - just to clarify my view:
I thought a leadership election was needed after the PLP no-confidence vote. However I had no idea it would be as bitter, bloody and divisive as its transpired and I'm glad its over. Corbyn must now reach out to the PLP rebels while the rebels need to accept the result and co-operate with him. Corbyn deserves a free run until the 2020 election. Look, I have my doubts if he can translate his popularity amongst the base, and his by-election/mayoral successes into a national election victory. He's been behind in 85 out of 89 polls.
But if Corbyn goes, it should be done by the electorate in a GE not via a further leadership battle. However I think too much talk is being made about the leadership when Labour's crisis is much deeper. Centre-left parties across Europe are facing an existential crisis, and are being squeeezed by two things:
First is the rise of insurgent leftist parties like Podemos and Syriza have exploited anger against extreme austerity and to the expense of mainstream left parties. Then you have UKIP, National Front and far-right parties in Scandinavia, Poland, Italy and elsewhere capturing parts of white, traditionally centre-left voting, working class folk on back of anti-immigration/Muslim sentiments. Here, you see Labour wiped out in Scotland by SNP and threatened by UKIP in England, and by Plaid in Wales.
Labour have got to do what the Democratic Party has successfully done in the US and rebuild their vote bank. They need a progressive alliance of socialists, liberals, try to claw back white working class votes, low wage workers, public sector workers, trade unionists, students, BMEs and small businesses. Right now, Labour's vote is so fragmented that in GE15 they only won amongst young people and DE social class.
shaz619
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Some people are just plain thick, what can be done to get their votes? they are the same folk who voted to leave EU, people like this:
And we live in times where parties like UKIP and National Front will absolutely thrive, especially in the regions where there is a lack of diversity. Also, how will they appease the folk born with a silver spoon in their mouth?
Labour have their flaws but they will not win the next GE simply because people are either too rich or too thick/evil.
Yossarian
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The Labour Party now has over 500,000 members. Adding in the associate members, plus those who paid the £25 to join and vote in the leadership election, there were over 650,000 who were eligible to vote in this election. And that doesn't even include the 130,000 plus party members who joined the Labour Party since 1st January 2016 and who were excluded from voting (although some then paid the additional £25 to vote).
Taken all together, those who were eligible to vote (650,000+) plus those excluded from voting because they became members after 01/01/2016, adds up to over 750,000 individuals who are linked/affiliated to the Labour Party in one way or another.
Potentially, when the time comes (eg approaching a General Election), each and every one of those 3/4 million can be called upon to spread the message of the Labour Party directly to potential voters amongst their family members, friends, colleague and neighbours, via social media, via local community activities and via a whole host of other means that directly bypass the right-wing press controlled by a wealthy few.
Those claiming that under Corbyn the Labour Party is finished, because the polls indicate so, may get a nasty surprise when the time comes.
KingKhanWC
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An expected resounding victory for the only genuine political leader.
I find this all very strange, the MP's are supposed to be representing the wishes of their constituents not making their own policy visions to suit their careers. Corbyn should make it clear they follow his policies which are backed by the Labour supporters or leave.
I find this all very strange, the MP's are supposed to be representing the wishes of their constituents not making their own policy visions to suit their careers. Corbyn should make it clear they follow his policies which are backed by the Labour supporters or leave.
Gabbar Singh
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Gabbar Singh
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's the word Sadiq Khan said 38 times in his 12-minute speech <a href="https://t.co/h0OtWZILBp">https://t.co/h0OtWZILBp</a></p>— POLITICO Europe (@POLITICOEurope) <a href="https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/780781599398957056">27 September 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
shaz619
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I think Corbyn is the popular every man and cult of personality who has great intentions but rubs people up the wrong way because he doesn't abide by their snobbery. It was strange and incredibly childish more then anything.
It's Corbyns way or the highway for the rebel Blairite MPs. You can't argue with a 62% mandate. (for reference the Tories are currently running the Country having got only 24% of the electorate ! whilst the Country is going for Brexit after a 51%-49% vote)
I'm sorry but anyone who believes this is barking mad.
What has actually happened is that a bunch of ultra left wing socialists/communists (mainly students and hippies) have seized an opportunity to hijack HM's official oppositon. How have they done that? Well they've found someone who is evil enough to destroy the party from within and his name is Jeremy Corbyn. Anyone with any loyalty to their party or anyone who wasn't so horribly selfish would have said you know what, I might lead this party and get to shout all my favourite slogans, but the price I will pay is the destruction of the party I have dedicated my life to serving. Jeremy doesn't think like that and any suggestion that oh, he's really a good guy, is totally foolish because he is clearly one of the most vindictive and evil leaders in the western world. He has actively allowed and encouraged a fringe movement which is unelectable to take over a party which just a few years ago was a party of government.
You know what is sad about all this? Jeremy Corbyn can go destroy the Labour Party, that's their problem. But even I as a life long Conservative supporter, believe his actions are damaging our democracy, potentially forever. Labour may never again be a credible oppotision and so we may well now be a one party 'democracy'. That is very, very dangerous. Theresa May is already taking advantage, introducing her grammar schools policy and clearly dithering on the EU exit strategy. She knows she can do this because her government is effectively unopposed. So the actions of one callous man is potentially destroying the proud tradition of parliamentary democracy in this country. If I was Jeremy Corbyn, I would truly be ashamed of myself but Jeremy doesn't feel shame, much like other evil leaders in the world past and present.
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Gabbar Singh
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Labour will never win another election without getting some Tory voters and so called "Blairites" on side. Yet Corbynistas treat the aforementioned groups like lepers who they don't want anything to do with. Good luck winning in 2020 with that kind of mindset.
Funny you should say that... here is an experienced Political journalist, a Tory Peter Oborne (well known to readers of this site as a writer on Pakistan cricket) ...
http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...n-unmitigated-disaster-labour-lead-1488108898
According to the British media class, the last week has been an unmitigated disaster for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
Don’t believe a word of it.
According to the received version of events, Jeremy Corbyn leads a split party, has zero chance of winning the next election, and is driven by a demented political ideology which will take Britain back to the worst days of the 1970s.
As a Tory, I don't share many of Corbyn's political beliefs, but I am certain that most of what is written about the Labour leader is false.
The truth is that Corbyn has had an outstanding week which has vindicated everything he has ever done and said as a man and a politician – a point that the Labour leader drove home in his superb leader’s speech from Liverpool this afternoon.
http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...n-unmitigated-disaster-labour-lead-1488108898
According to the British media class, the last week has been an unmitigated disaster for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
Don’t believe a word of it.
According to the received version of events, Jeremy Corbyn leads a split party, has zero chance of winning the next election, and is driven by a demented political ideology which will take Britain back to the worst days of the 1970s.
As a Tory, I don't share many of Corbyn's political beliefs, but I am certain that most of what is written about the Labour leader is false.
The truth is that Corbyn has had an outstanding week which has vindicated everything he has ever done and said as a man and a politician – a point that the Labour leader drove home in his superb leader’s speech from Liverpool this afternoon.
Yossarian
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What an utter load of nonsense! But then again, wouldn't expect anything different from a "But even I as a life long Conservative supporter" who's brainwashed into believing all the rubbish that the right-wing press (owned & run by the wealthy) spouts and twists every day.
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Typical response from a fanatic Corbynista! Why don't you actual add reason to your argument rather than just call anyone who doesn't agree with you the devil? The reason is because these militant socialist/communists who have taken over the Labour Party want to pretend Corbyn is an oppressed man, such a poor guy bullied by the media and the world. Wake up and smell the coffee - here's a man who's been begged to go by his fellow MPs, but is so evil that not only has he allowed these communists to take over a mainstream party, but actually uses them to make himself more powerful and de-select anyone who opposes him. He has all the traits of a horrible dictator.
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Yossarian
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You mean the MP's who, in many cases, where parachuted into safe labour seats, and thus have cushy jobs for life, due to family or political connections? Think Ed & David Miliband, Hilary Benn, Stephen Kinnock.
Why is it that the likes of you (ie by your admission a life long Tory supporter) label others as Corbynistas when you don't even know them, don't know as to their general politics. Why are you so rattled by the internal wranglings of a political party that you've never voted for, that you don't wish to see in power (because you want the Tory's in power, and that's why you always vote for them) and that kept the Tory's out of power for 13 years prior to 2010?
As for Corbyn being "evil", why, do you know him personally? Heck, even his worst political enemies admit that he's a man of principle and more honest than the vast majority of those who sit in Parliament.
When you're unable to win by argument, all that the likes of you can do is to then resort to petty abuse, such as calling others "Corbynistas", "evil", "horrible dictator"... as shown in your post.
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shaz619
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There is no need to engage in a discussion with nonsensical, narrow minded Tories. They are not worthy and they prove it time and time again evidently.
Robert
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You have a point. The Conservatives, who should be the most unpopular government in living memory given their record of austerity, have a 19 point opinion poll lead over Labour.
Think on that.
Labour under Mr Corbyn have a yawning credibility gap among the voters as a whole, UKIP are tearing themselves apart, the Lib Dems are flatlining. Scotland is going to leave the Union.
The future for a reduced UK is blue for at least a decade and perhaps forever.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour GAIN Witham North (Braintree) from Conservative.</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/789250837516353536">20 October 2016</a></blockquote>
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Polls are manipulated by media and Government. This Tory Government run the BBC and their friends at Sky(Sun/Times) / Daily Mail (Murdoch/Dacre) are complicit in the lies.
Conservative vote in Witney (David Camerons old constituency collapsed last night)
60% down to 45%
The combined Lab+Lib Dem vote increased to 45% i.e. a Progressive/Left coalition has chance to unseat Tories from 'safe Tory seats'. That is huge news.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bit of a catastrophe in Witney as the Tories lose over 20,000 from their majority, but it was a by-election. <a href="https://t.co/YubyJRLHPE">pic.twitter.com/YubyJRLHPE</a></p>— Rupert Myers (@RupertMyers) <a href="https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/789378586566275073">21 October 2016</a></blockquote>
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Conservative vote in Witney (David Camerons old constituency collapsed last night)
60% down to 45%
The combined Lab+Lib Dem vote increased to 45% i.e. a Progressive/Left coalition has chance to unseat Tories from 'safe Tory seats'. That is huge news.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bit of a catastrophe in Witney as the Tories lose over 20,000 from their majority, but it was a by-election. <a href="https://t.co/YubyJRLHPE">pic.twitter.com/YubyJRLHPE</a></p>— Rupert Myers (@RupertMyers) <a href="https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/789378586566275073">21 October 2016</a></blockquote>
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Robert
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I think some rainbow coalition against the Tories is unlikely.
Firstly, the fear of a LAB-SDP alliance was skillfully manipulated by the Tories at the last GE. They can use the same tactic again.
Secondly, after the LD collapse in 2015 they have just eight MPs. They have won more council seats that all the other parties put together since the Referendum, but have a long way to go before a critical mass of public opinion translates that into Parliamentary seats.
Thirdly, many of the current surge of LD members are refugees from the Labour Party and will not want to ally with Mr Corbyn, who is the reason for their defection.
Fourthly, ever since the 1924 GE, centrists are more likely to vote Tory than a left Labour Party, if a credible centrist candidate is not available in their constituency. While the Labour candidate may be closer to them ideologically, they will vote Tory because the latter seem more competent to them.
Fifthly, the Tories are almost certainly going to get more seats than Labour in 2020 so the Lib Dems are just more likely to side with the Tories. (Had they sided with Mr Brown in 2010 they would still have lacked a Commons majority, at a time of financial crisis when stable government was needed.)
Firstly, the fear of a LAB-SDP alliance was skillfully manipulated by the Tories at the last GE. They can use the same tactic again.
Secondly, after the LD collapse in 2015 they have just eight MPs. They have won more council seats that all the other parties put together since the Referendum, but have a long way to go before a critical mass of public opinion translates that into Parliamentary seats.
Thirdly, many of the current surge of LD members are refugees from the Labour Party and will not want to ally with Mr Corbyn, who is the reason for their defection.
Fourthly, ever since the 1924 GE, centrists are more likely to vote Tory than a left Labour Party, if a credible centrist candidate is not available in their constituency. While the Labour candidate may be closer to them ideologically, they will vote Tory because the latter seem more competent to them.
Fifthly, the Tories are almost certainly going to get more seats than Labour in 2020 so the Lib Dems are just more likely to side with the Tories. (Had they sided with Mr Brown in 2010 they would still have lacked a Commons majority, at a time of financial crisis when stable government was needed.)
It's called the SNP not SDP. So the electorate fell once for a media lying campaign, will they again ?
Tories lost 1945 election badly to Labour after 'winning the war'. The current post Brexit situation seems similar. Tories/UKIP won the 'war on Europe' but expect the people will prefer Labour to 'win the peace'
Tories lost 1945 election badly to Labour after 'winning the war'. The current post Brexit situation seems similar. Tories/UKIP won the 'war on Europe' but expect the people will prefer Labour to 'win the peace'
IF the polls were right about Tories being 19% ahead of Labour you wouldn't get results like this in ACTUAL elections
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Witham North (Braintree) result:<br>LAB: 37.5% (+6.1)<br>CON: 34.0% (-4.8)<br>GRN: 25.1% (+4.7)<br>LDEM: 3.4% (-5.9)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/789401511583322112">21 October 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Witham North (Braintree) result:<br>LAB: 37.5% (+6.1)<br>CON: 34.0% (-4.8)<br>GRN: 25.1% (+4.7)<br>LDEM: 3.4% (-5.9)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/789401511583322112">21 October 2016</a></blockquote>
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Robert
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I'll accept the pollsters can be wrong by 2% either way, because sometimes polled people lie to them out of shame.
Pollsters especially neocons like Yougov are just professional lying trolls nowadays. They aren't independent neutral seekers of truth, they are commercial entities seeking to provide a narrative or some such for their clients who pay them to come up with the answers they want.
So made up poll from pollsters Con 47% vs Lab 29%
Real actual election in Essex this week
LAB: 37.5% (+6.1)
CON: 34.0% (-4.8)
That's not a +/- 2% difference
So made up poll from pollsters Con 47% vs Lab 29%
Real actual election in Essex this week
LAB: 37.5% (+6.1)
CON: 34.0% (-4.8)
That's not a +/- 2% difference
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/LifeCatharsis">@LifeCatharsis</a> Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it.Crack that,and it all makes sense.</p>— Peter Hitchens (@ClarkeMicah) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/761160082080006144">4 August 2016</a></blockquote>
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Robert
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I don't believe that because sometimes they predict Labour wins or hung Parliaments and are wrong - in the 1992 and 2015 General Elections for examples.
A local result at a time when the 48% are hurting is not representative of the national mood. The Lib Dems are delighted at the big swing to them in Witney but they poured much of their national resources into the campaign and still lost.
I think you are clutching at straws. I don't want a Tory government either but I'm also a realist. Labour should be aiming for a win in 2025 under a young Leader who attracts centre voters - by that time the current Tories will be exhausted by their time in Government. A centre-left Labour leader such as Burnham or Khan might also attract resurgent Lib Dems into coalition.
UKIP, now that their mission is accomplished will break up. Labour will get some of them back, but the Tories will get more.
And if the Scots leave the Union then it's Tories for ever no matter what the other parties do.
The Black female Jewish Momentum vice-chair who has been slurred by allegations of being anti-semitic! is taking the corrupt Labour Party General Secretary Iain McNicol to Court.
There is a crowdfunding appeal to support her case here :-
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/walker-vs-mcnicol/
There is a crowdfunding appeal to support her case here :-
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/walker-vs-mcnicol/
Robert
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Labour is beset with internecine warfare and the various factions are using such accusations and the courts to try to purge their opponents. I am sad to see the Party I supported for decades continue to tear itself apart.
Robert
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The Blair Bounce came with a big Labour lead in the opinion polls through engagement of the centre vote and even some Tories. That is how Labour can win but it appears that Mr Corbyn is reaching only to hardcore Labour support. Five by-election wins have come, but they are all Labour stronghold seats and the last one was not contested by the Tories, Lib Dems or even UKIP. If Labour make a good showing in Richmond Park (assuming Zac Goldsmith resigns the Tory whip) then I will change my mind.
Was not the Deputy Chair of Momentum sacked by the Momentum steering committee rather than the Corbynsceptics?
What you call deadwood is the MPs with the skills and experience of government, most of whom now languish on the backbenches or are in Commons committees. If the entryists deselect them, it will be a decade before any of their replacements learn the trade of government.
Robert
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Mr Goldsmith has resigned the whip! Will there be a by-election and if so will he stand against the Tory candidate as an independent? The Lib Dems could sneak in there....
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There is well known GCHQ Internet Troll operations which have been revealed by Snowden/Wikileaks etc.
On the subject some of the trolls on here frequently bring up the supposed 'power' and competency of 'Anyone But Corbyn' in Labour that argument really has been put to bed today.
Electoral Commission has fined Labour2015 for their cheating in GE2015 (Sadiq Khan was a major part of the failed campaign of his friend Ed Miliband)
The ABC trolls like to claim Sadiq Khan is the most powerful elected Labour leader... the Mayor of London is powerless to stop the Government on todays Heathrow decision.
On the subject some of the trolls on here frequently bring up the supposed 'power' and competency of 'Anyone But Corbyn' in Labour that argument really has been put to bed today.
Electoral Commission has fined Labour2015 for their cheating in GE2015 (Sadiq Khan was a major part of the failed campaign of his friend Ed Miliband)
The ABC trolls like to claim Sadiq Khan is the most powerful elected Labour leader... the Mayor of London is powerless to stop the Government on todays Heathrow decision.
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How can the SNP with a straight face call for another referendum and claim an independent Scotland could have a sustainable economy ?
The oil prices have plummeted and their economic case is finished. Labour needs to be on the attack in Scotland, let's not surrender a region of the country that's been the heartland of the Labour Party for decades.
The oil prices have plummeted and their economic case is finished. Labour needs to be on the attack in Scotland, let's not surrender a region of the country that's been the heartland of the Labour Party for decades.
Gabbar Singh
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Even the SNP must know that they won't win if there's another referendum - the economic situation is dire. They would not even be granted membership of the EU because their deficit would be too large - it's touching 10% of GDP and it would need to be below 3% to join. Despite knowing all of this I think they just shout about Independence to 1 - keep their core support happy and 2 - to blackmail Westminster.
It's the same with their economic policy - they claim to be anti-austerity, and aspire to follow a Scandinavian social democrat type model yet the SNP refuse to use their tax raising powers in order to raise funds for increased public spending because they fear it will upset the middle class.
Labour should be doing a lot better in Scotland but their leadership is pathetic - even the Scottish Tory leader is more popular in Scotland and that is remarkable considering how toxic the Tory brand is north of the border.
Let's not be blind to this, there is ongoing and large scale low level black ops run by Government/Deep State to divert/deflect/obfuscate. These aren't conspiracy theorists they are people involved with Snowden/Wikileaks i.e. high level insider whistleblowers.
HOW COVERT AGENTS INFILTRATE THE INTERNET TO MANIPULATE, DECEIVE, AND DESTROY REPUTATIONS
Glenn Greenwald
February 24 2014, 11:25 p.m.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums.
HOW COVERT AGENTS INFILTRATE THE INTERNET TO MANIPULATE, DECEIVE, AND DESTROY REPUTATIONS
Glenn Greenwald
February 24 2014, 11:25 p.m.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums.
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Government plans to monitor and influence internet communications, and covertly infiltrate online communities in order to sow dissension and disseminate false information, have long been the source of speculation. Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviser and the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government.
Muhammad10
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Stay on topic please.
Robert
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Right you are.
Looks like the Tories will not stand in Richmond Park against Goldsmith. I suppose he will vote with them anyway, despite renouncing the whip. Come on the Lib Dems!
Robert
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Now Corbyn says Labour will all vote to block Article 50, and Watson says they will vote for it.
Shambles.
Shambles.
Had some time to watch a documentary on Harold Wilson today. I'm interested to see what [MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7898]Gabbar Singh[/MENTION] think. It took me back to an age when meritocracy in Britain was a thing and you didn't have to be a public schoolboy to make it to the top.
I know Tony Blair declared year zero in 1994, effectively created a new political party and expunged any references to historical Labour leaders - but Harold Wilson seems an underrated Prime Minister and proof that Old Labour wasn't the useless bunch of dinosaurs Mandelson, Campbell and others led us to believe.
a) He kept Britain out of Vietnam despite LBJ's insistence they send even a battalion.
b) Liberalising social reforms including abolition of the death penalty, decriminalisation of homosexuality, legalising abortion, relaxing theatre censorship - recognising how society was changing with the Swinging Sixties.
c) Created the Open University which allowed millions of people opportunity to access quality education.
d) Won four general elections - 1964, 1966, Feb 1974 and Oct 1974.
e) Understood the art of public relations. The Gannex raincoat and the pipe, his modest upbringing in Huddersfield (which was genuine) was emphasised to show he had the "common touch" - all ahead of his time.
There are negatives like the collapse of In Place of Strife (though probably more Callaghan's fault) which could've prevented the Thatcherite trade union crackdown from ever happening, devaluing the pound after dithering for so long then claiming "the pound in your pocket or purse isn't devalued !" and high inflation.
I know Tony Blair declared year zero in 1994, effectively created a new political party and expunged any references to historical Labour leaders - but Harold Wilson seems an underrated Prime Minister and proof that Old Labour wasn't the useless bunch of dinosaurs Mandelson, Campbell and others led us to believe.
a) He kept Britain out of Vietnam despite LBJ's insistence they send even a battalion.
b) Liberalising social reforms including abolition of the death penalty, decriminalisation of homosexuality, legalising abortion, relaxing theatre censorship - recognising how society was changing with the Swinging Sixties.
c) Created the Open University which allowed millions of people opportunity to access quality education.
d) Won four general elections - 1964, 1966, Feb 1974 and Oct 1974.
e) Understood the art of public relations. The Gannex raincoat and the pipe, his modest upbringing in Huddersfield (which was genuine) was emphasised to show he had the "common touch" - all ahead of his time.
There are negatives like the collapse of In Place of Strife (though probably more Callaghan's fault) which could've prevented the Thatcherite trade union crackdown from ever happening, devaluing the pound after dithering for so long then claiming "the pound in your pocket or purse isn't devalued !" and high inflation.
James
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The government is floundering over Brexit, and meanwhile Trump seems to care very little for the majority of our cabinet - a perfect opportunity for the opposition leader to go on the attack - but, still, Corbyn's profile is not where it should be. He is too quiet, he needs to be more aggressive if he is going to degrade the Tories' credibility to the extent where he could actually beat them.
Yossarian
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And all this whilst the British intelligence services, hand in hand with the Establishment, were undermining him and trying to bring him down.
Robert
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Theresa May didn't go to public school.
I think Wilson did a pretty good job. He had the advantage of the sixties boom years when we had a manufacturing base and the White Heat, and British pop music ruled. He also had his excellent Chancellor Denis Healey. Labour had some big brains in those days. Among postwar PMs I would put him fourth behind Atlee, Thatcher and Blair, and a long way ahead of Cameron.
Robert
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I think Mr Corbyn did better at the Centoph today than last year. More statesmanlike. He had a decent suit on and he made a proper bow when he presented his wreath. Stuff like this matters.
Watching on YouTube - Labour: The Wilderness Years, documenting their time in opposition during 18 years of Conservative government between 1979-1997.
Fascinating documentary featuring all the major players of the time. Strongly recommend.
Fascinating documentary featuring all the major players of the time. Strongly recommend.
Robert
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Might go and see Owen Jones' presentation 'The Politics of Hope' at my local theatre. Who knows, someone with his brains might even coax me back to Labour.
Owen Jones is the embodiment of the joke figure from Viz 'Student Grant' but in our society he is looked upto as being some great visionary when he has never actually lived and worked in the real world being part and parcel of the political Establishment all his life. No real conception of anything. This was a guy who was 'deeply embedded' within 'The Left' and claims to have founded Momentum yet didn't even foresee the victory of Corbyn. Clueless and incompetent, but in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king so I'm sure some who claim to be on the Left will continue to look up to him simply demonstrating their own intellectual bankruptcy.
Robert
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Like that Karl Marx bloke. What a phoney he was, studying philosophy and economics at the University of Berlin! Fortunately we have 'authentic' Corbyn who is leading us to the workers' utopia instead of these middle class posers. If only Marx had dropped out of North London Poly, he might not have been intellectually bankrupt.
chacha kashmiri
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Agree with everything you say about Own jones
He is part of the reason why so many people confuse socialism with libertee
James
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Now Blair is planning a comeback.
Robert
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Can't think what as. Is he going to start a new party? The time is right, given that tjhe Lib Dems have an ineffective leader, Corbyn's yawning credibility gap among centrist voters, UKIP in meltdown and the Tories rampant. We need effective Opposition from soemwhere.
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Our saviour has returned! Beloved Blair, the white knight we so richly deserve
Robert
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But he has become so incredibly toxic. He could not be charged with any war crime, as anyone who reads the Geneva Convention will note, but so many people hate him now.
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It will arise in good time by default, the same way the right has risen as an answer to the swing to the left. The time is right for the Tories and the Brexiteers to have their go at steering the ship, if it goes well, great, if it doesn't then there won't be any shortage of leaders vying for the mantle of leading the opposition.
Robert
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I read that Labour has 1600 members in Richmond Park. Odd then that they did not poll that many, and lost their deposit.
I think that the 600K membership has more to do with being in a fan club / echo chamber / safe space than an election-winning force.
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It's odd to see supposedly intelligent people believe everything they read in newspapers.
The Labour candidate was Christian Wolmar who has previously campaigned against Corbyn. Most Labour members are intelligent enough to realise that this was a special one-off by-election where they could send a message to Islamophobic Tories on both their Islamophobia and Tory Brexit.
A tactical vote for the Lib Dems was a 'no brainer'.
By the way the 'Progressive alliance' of LAB/LIB/Greens took over 50% of the vote in a 'safe Tory' seat. It shows that it will not take much to consign Tories/UKIP to defeat.
The Labour candidate was Christian Wolmar who has previously campaigned against Corbyn. Most Labour members are intelligent enough to realise that this was a special one-off by-election where they could send a message to Islamophobic Tories on both their Islamophobia and Tory Brexit.
A tactical vote for the Lib Dems was a 'no brainer'.
By the way the 'Progressive alliance' of LAB/LIB/Greens took over 50% of the vote in a 'safe Tory' seat. It shows that it will not take much to consign Tories/UKIP to defeat.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Independent">@Independent</a> on scope for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/progressivealliances?src=hash">#progressivealliances</a> - the prize is fairer voting system for a more inclusive democracy <a href="https://t.co/qaIWVRw28Q">https://t.co/qaIWVRw28Q</a></p>— Caroline Lucas (@CarolineLucas) <a href="https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/804698100786925568">2 December 2016</a></blockquote>
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James
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Most constituencies in England and Wales would vote Tory at the moment due to the lack of a competent alternative. Even in Yorkshire where I currently live and the majority of seats have always been Labour, more and more voters were tempted away by the Tories in 2015; Strictly Ed Balls himself was dumped for an unknown Conservative politician in Morley & Outwood (includes Thorpe and West/East Ardsley also) where there is no affluence whatsoever. The same will happen again in 2020.
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Then why did Labour field a candidate at all? Surely the even bigger no-brainer would have been to give the LDs a clear run and instruct all Richmond Labour members to vote for them? If there was a progressive alliance, the local Labour party was outsde it.
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Yossarian
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Not fielding an official party candidate sends the wrong signal - The main political parties don't do so because it then opens the floodgates whereby in every constituency where, in the previous election, the winning margin of the sitting MP was less than the votes cast for the 3rd placed (main) party, there will be calls to make deals - which in turn, even before the election, sends the signal that these parties will be willing to form a coalition government.
Whereas giving a nod and a wink to tactical voting by their supporters in by-elections like this, whilst at the same time still fielding an 'official' party candidate, creates an opportunity to give a kicking to the party in government without signalling that they're ready and willing to make deals in advance prior to the next general election..
Robert
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Losing their deposit - for the first time in a London election in a century - is giving the Tories a kicking?
I expect the Labour vote to collapse again in Sleaford, beaten into third place behind UKIP.
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Polls close in Sleaford and North Hykeham by-election. Will be interesting to see where Labour finish. Some are suggesting it will be 4th.
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Conservatives win, with UKIP 2nd and Labour 4th.
Labour not doing so well in recent bi-elections.
Labour not doing so well in recent bi-elections.
Robert
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Oops, I was wrong. Fourth, behind the LDs.
Gabbar Singh
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The government are in disarray yet Her Majesty's Opposition were a few hundred votes away from coming 5th in a by-election almost 2 years into parliament. Even the toxic Tories, as they were back then, in the late 90s and early 00s were doing better than this in by-elections and they were up against Blair in his prime.
I wonder how Corbyn devotees will spin this one.
I wonder how Corbyn devotees will spin this one.
Gabbar Singh
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The losing Labour candidate says he is proud of how his party did lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38258976
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38258976
Labour gained a Council seat from Tories in massive swing now control Telford Council :-
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour GAIN Horsehay & Lightmoor (Telford & Wrekin) from Conservative. Congratulations to <a href="https://twitter.com/CllrRajMehta">@CllrRajMehta</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Telfordlabour">@Telfordlabour</a> a superb <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LabourWin?src=hash">#LabourWin</a></p>— Angela Rayner MP (@AngelaRayner) <a href="https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/807002299340034048">8 December 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour GAIN Horsehay & Lightmoor (Telford & Wrekin) from Conservative. Congratulations to <a href="https://twitter.com/CllrRajMehta">@CllrRajMehta</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Telfordlabour">@Telfordlabour</a> a superb <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LabourWin?src=hash">#LabourWin</a></p>— Angela Rayner MP (@AngelaRayner) <a href="https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/807002299340034048">8 December 2016</a></blockquote>
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