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Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April [Post #1698]

Labour's new 'kinder politics' on show.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-portland-jeremy-corbyn-jo-cox-a7122101.html

mckeever.jpg
 
A PR firm trying to escape the spotlight after being found to have colluded in bringing down democratically elected leader. It stinks of a PR stunt and has nothing to do with Corbyn.

Desperation of the coupists is evident. Resorting to desperate measures as they know they can't defeat Corbyn democratically.
 
s28 said:
A PR firm trying to escape the spotlight after being found to have colluded in bringing down democratically elected leader. It stinks of a PR stunt and has nothing to do with Corbyn.

Desperation of the coupists is evident. Resorting to desperate measures as they know they can't defeat Corbyn democratically.
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Ah, so that makes threats to kill OK? Is this really the impression Corbynistas want to give? The Leader should denounce this criminal act.
 
You can stop with your deflection and trolling

#Chilcot confirms Blairism is dead
 
But nobody knows which side they are on!

Perhaps Peak Trot has been reached? There can only be a finite number of whiney middle class millenials and old commies....
 
What next for the Labour rebels?



Defeated Labour rebels admit 'it's finished' as Jeremy Corbyn refuses to resign as leader




Labour rebels are in retreat after admitting that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be removed and would "win easily" if a leadership election is triggered.

One senior Labour MP said: "It's finished" as it emerged that lengthy talks between union bosses and Tom Watson, the party's deputy leader, had failed to find a solution to the deadlock.

MPs have now pinned their hopes on a challenge by Angela Eagle, despite many believing that she will not beat Mr Corbyn because of his support among members.

It follows weeks of stalemate between the Labour leader's office and MPs who want to see Mr Corbyn step down without having to trigger a leadership campaign.



One senior MP told The Telegraph: "It's finished. He will win easily in a second contest if he is on the ballot, it's everything we wanted to avoid."

They added: "He is losing support of the membership by the day, there is no doubt about that, but they just sign up new members to replace them. He is Teflon in that sense."

Another Labour source admitted that Mr Corbyn has "dug his heels in" and "isn't going anywhere", adding: "It's grim."




MPs had mounted a campaign to remove the Labour leader after he sacked Hilary Benn as shadow foreign secretary following the EU referendum.

In the following week almost every shadow minister in Mr Corbyn's top team resigned and a vote of no confidence in the leader won the support of over 80 per cent of MPs who voted.

However Mr Corbyn and his allies, including John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, have refused to back down and allow a new leader to be appointed, citing the mandate he won from Labour voters in September.



A Labour MP told The Telegraph: "There are more talks planned, but when one side's red line is that Jeremy stays in post and the other side says he has to go, it is impossible to find a compromise. It's done.

"It's no good. It's possible that the PLP would consider some kind of executive role for Jeremy if he were to stand aside as leader but his team just won't consider that option, they know where the power lies."



However another said there was still hope that Ms Eagle could beat Mr Corbyn in a campaign by motivating a "groundswell" of support following the Brexit vote.

They said: "Jeremy and his team don't care about the public, they don't care about opposing this Government. Angela is the best hope now and people are prepared for that fight."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ls-admit-its-finished-as-jeremy-corbyn-refus/
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Labour prepares for leadership contest as crisis talks break down

Labour is on course for a new leadership contest, after deputy leader Tom Watson called off talks aimed at finding a resolution to the current party disputes. The latest developments have seen personal disagreements between Labour figures become public, as Jeremy Corbyn restated his intention to carry on as leader.

In a busy day for the party:

Tom Watson said “there is no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise” through talks with Corbyn and trade unions
Angela Eagle announced she will run for leader against Corbyn
Unite’s Len McCluskey attacked Watson’s decision for walking away from negotiations as “an act of sabotage”
General Secretaries of Unison and GMB both gave backing to the Labour leader at Durham Miners’ Gala
A spokesperson for Corbyn said he would not “betray the hundreds of thousands of people who elected him” by resigning
Owen Smith said he would continue to pursue a resolution through dialogue to avert the party from splitting
David Cameron announced a Commons vote on Trident for July 18, in a move that could see Labour’s splits deepen

Following Watson’s withdrawal from these discussions this morning, Angela Eagle has confirmed she plans to formally launch a challenge to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, and intends to set out her case on ITV’s Peston show on Sunday morning. The move has been interpreted to head off a possible bid by alternative challenger Owen Smith. But Smith has himself today said that he intends to meet with Corbyn to “heal divisions through dialogue”.

However, Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey has hit out at Watson, saying that his decision to pull out of talks appears to be “an act of sabotage”. In an extraordinary attack on his long-time ally, McCluskey accuses Watson of being “deeply disingenuous” for suggesting that a settlement including Corbyn’s resignation was ever up a possibility.

McCluskey reaffirmed Unite’s support Corbyn, and warned off any efforts to keep him off the ballot if a new contest is triggered.

Trade union leaders, Tom Watson, and representatives from Corbyn’s office and the Parliamentary Labour Party were due to hold another meeting tomorrow, but it now appears these talks will not go ahead – with McCluskey saying Watson gave him no prior warning about his decision not to attend.

Watson, who was elected deputy leader alongside Corbyn last summer, made clear his feelings this morning, saying that the leader’s stated intention to stay in role “means there is no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise”.

“I felt we made significant progress during those talks, which were designed to find a solution to the impasse the party finds itself in. It is my strong belief that those discussions could have formed a basis for further talks with union representatives,” Watson said.

“However, since the talks began, Jeremy has publicly declared his intention to continue as leader come what may. This means there is no realistic prospect of reaching a compromise that satisfies the majority of colleagues in the PLP.

“It is with regret and profound sadness that I have concluded there is little to be achieved by pursuing wider conversations with our union affiliates at this time.”

Echoing elements of Neil Kinnock’s speech to Monday’s PLP meeting, the audio of which was leaked, Watson also spoke of the importance of pursuing the “parliamentary path to socialism”.

He said: “The Labour Party was founded with the explicit aim of pursuing the parliamentary path to socialism. Every Labour leader needs to command the support of their MPs in the Parliamentary Labour Party, as well as party members, in order to achieve that. It is clear to all that Jeremy has lost the support of the PLP with little prospect of regaining it.”

In a statement responding to Watson, McCluskey warned off any attempt to stop Corbyn standing again once a contest is triggered. Labour Party rules do not make it clear whether an incumbent leader, once challenged, would need to collect nominations from MPs and MEPs.

It is understood the party has received legal advice suggesting nominations would be needed, while the leader’s office has sought its own legal advice to the contrary. It is unclear whether Corbyn would be able to command the support of the 50 parliamentarians it would take – with a recent vote of no confidence from the PLP and a letter from the European PLP suggesting he would struggle.

Rather than resting on legal advice, it seems that the decision on nominations will be taken by Labour’s NEC, which remains finely balanced between Corbyn supporters and sceptics.

McCluskey said: “I am dismayed at the statement issued by Tom Watson announcing his withdrawal from talks aimed at resolving the crisis in the Labour Party.

“Extraordinarily I received no notice of this statement before it was issued. I had made arrangements for a meeting of trade union leaders, Tom Watson and representatives of the PLP and the Party Leader for tomorrow, arrangements requested by Tom Watson and his colleagues, specifically for Mr Watson’s convenience.

“In that context, when the possibility of a workable plan had never seemed closer, Tom Watson’s actions today can only look like an act of sabotage fraught with peril for the future of the Labour Party.

“I must clarify one point in Tom Watson’s statement – I made it absolutely clear from the outset of these discussions that Jeremy Corbyn’s resignation as the Leader was not on the agenda. Mr Watson knew that, and it is entirely wrong to suggest that any public statement by Jeremy represented any change in the situation. This is a deeply disingenuous manoeuvre.

“I will continue to work with trade union colleagues and others to chart a way forward, including meeting the legitimate concerns of Labour MPs. Should there have to be a leadership election, I must warn that any attempts to keep Jeremy Corbyn, elected just ten months ago with an enormous mandate, off the ballot paper by legal means risks a lasting division in the Party.”

Corbyn has been attending the annual Durham Miners’ Gala today, where Unison’s Dave Prentis and the GMB’s Tim Roache both told gathered crowds that they were continuing to back his leadership. That means the UK’s three largest trade unions remain firmly behind the Labour leader.

In his own address, Corbyn said that he did not feel any pressure in the role: “There is no pressure on me. The real pressure is when you don’t have enough to feed your kids or have a roof over your head.”

This afternoon, a spokesperson for Corbyn confirmed that “he will remain leader of the Labour Party and will contest any leadership challenge if one is mounted.”

They added that “Jeremy is committed to fulfilling all his responsibilities as democratically elected leader and will not betray the hundreds of thousands of people who elected him for a different direction for the Labour Party and a different kind of politics.”

In reference to Watson’s decision not to continue the talks with trade unions, they said that “it is disappointing that some have walked away” from what they saw as a “vehicle to bring people together”.

There have been suggestions that Owen Smith has also been weighing up his own leadership bid. Smith resigned as Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary last week, and gave his backing to Tom Watson to take over on an interim basis. But once it became clear Watson would not challenge Corbyn, Smith appeared to throw his hat into the ring.

While rebel MPs are adamant that only one candidate should challenge Corbyn, there has been a failure to agree whether Smith or Eagle would stand the best chance, with suggestions that a vote could take place among MPs to decide which one would run.

On Thursday, Smith said that he wanted to see talks between Watson, Corbyn and trade unions continue over the weekend, and in a statement today said that he is “deeply disappointed” that the conversations have broken down.

So far, he has been one of few figures to publicly talk about the possibility of the party splitting, and raised the possibility again this afternoon, stressing that it was important further talks continue.

“I am deeply disappointed that talks about the future of our party appear to have broken down. I know Tom Watson has worked tirelessly in a bid to reach agreement and respect his view that he cannot take this process any further,” Smith said.

“I am continuing efforts to heal divisions through dialogue and intend to meet with Jeremy as soon as possible to explore any and all avenues to save our party.

“This is the greatest crisis facing Labour in generations and it comes at a time when our country is in desperate need of a united Labour Party to speak for Britain.

“I remain extremely concerned that a small number of people from both the left and right of our party seem intent on letting it split. The Labour movement must come together to avoid this at all costs.
“I remain committed to doing anything necessary to prevent a split and unite the party.”
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http://labourlist.org/2016/07/labour-prepares-for-leadership-contest-as-crisis-talk-break-down/
 
what a joker she has even less leadership and oratory skills than Corbyn as well as voting for the Iraq War, voted for bombing in Libya and Syria, voted for tuition fees, for welfare cuts etc, yes I can see her appeal for Labour voters.
 
Jeremy Corbyn threatens to sue his own party if they refuse to automatically put him on the ballot paper as Angela Eagle prepares to oust the Labour leader


Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he will go to court if the National Executive Commitee say he can't go on the ballot paper automatically.

"I will challenge that", he told the Andrew Marr show. "The rules and my view are absolutely clear. I have taken soundings from lawyers I will be on the ballot paper."

Labour is set for tumultuous few weeks with the potential to split the party as Angela Eagle launches a bid to oust Mr Corbyn as leader of the party.



The two rivals made televised pitches to supporters this morning in broadcast interviews after a dramatic series of developments ended the stand-off over the embattled leader's position.

Ms Eagle suggested Mr Corbyn should not automatically be on the ballot. "He will have to find the nominations", she said.

"I'm a gay woman with strong, Northern, working class roots. I think I'm the right person for this job at this time".

Appearing on the Andrew Marr show, Mr Corbyn said he was "disappointed" that Angela Eagle was launching a challenge for his post and urged her to "think for a moment" about her actions.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-jeremy-corbyn-faces-angela-eagle-leadership/
 
"I'm a gay woman with strong, Northern, working class roots. I think I'm the right person for this job at this time".
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What does this have to do with being the leader of the Labour Party? Doesn't sound like the kind of stuff you'd see on a CV.
 
There has been debate about whether Corbyn will be on ballot. My reading of it in line with Doughty Chambers that incumbent is automatically on ballot. Apparently the coupists got opinion from some small firm to the contrary. Interesting on twitter this 'Blairite' QC who is anti-Corbyn has actually said he believes according to rules Corbyn should be on ballot and he will work pro bono if necessary to ensure he is.
 
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S
Abdullah719 said:
What does this have to do with being the leader of the Labour Party? Doesn't sound like the kind of stuff you'd see on a CV.
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Saw her being interviewed by Andrew Neil. She was completely and utterly hopeless. Apart from still defending Blair, still defending her decision to vote for the Iraq invasion, all she managed to do was make some feeble attempts at mouthing a few soundbites that could be shown again on the news or quoted by other media outlets.

She is supposedly standing against Corbyn because he's not leadership material. Going by her interview she makes Corbyn look like Churchill, Thatcher, John F. Kennedy and Nelson Mandela all rolled into one!
 
Stormzy
Ewan McGregor
Lily Allen
and now
MIA
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn">@JeremyCorbyn</a> is a G</p>— M.I.A (@MIAuniverse) <a href="https://twitter.com/MIAuniverse/status/752495798219333633">11 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
her voting record is atrocious.

how is this woman even a labour mp? shes a closet tory if ever there was one.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10182/angela_eagle/wallasey/votes

she voted for war on every occasion, she voted against enquiries into war, she voted for tuition fees, etc etc. shes a hawkish neocon blairite with an atrocious record. and that even after blair and his violent destructive and cataclysmic cronyism has been bared for all to see with chilcot.

shes so shamelessly out of touch with the membership, along with her sell out backstabbing establishment prostituted traitors thats she might even be subject a vote of no confidence by her own constituency:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fidence-vote-constituency-party-a7130421.html
 
godzilla said:
her voting record is atrocious.

how is this woman even a labour mp? shes a closet tory if ever there was one.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10182/angela_eagle/wallasey/votes

she voted for war on every occasion, she voted against enquiries into war, she voted for tuition fees, etc etc. shes a hawkish neocon blairite with an atrocious record. and that even after blair and his violent destructive and cataclysmic cronyism has been bared for all to see with chilcot.

shes so shamelessly out of touch with the membership, along with her sell out backstabbing establishment prostituted traitors thats she might even be subject a vote of no confidence by her own constituency:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fidence-vote-constituency-party-a7130421.html
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Can't actually believe that the 'rebels' even remotely think she's leadership material.

She's obviously there to test the waters, to see if Corbyn will be allowed to stand automatically (- which I believe he is entitled to since he's the incumbent leader who's being challenged and the 20% rule only applies to 'challengers').

The rebels know that if Corbyn is allowed to stand then he'll win. But if he's not allowed to stand automatically then the big guns will throw their hats into the ring.

Angela Eagle is just the sacrificial lamb. Either way she's toast. And she's too thick to even figure that out.
 
Yossarian said:
Can't actually believe that the 'rebels' even remotely think she's leadership material.

She's obviously there to test the waters, to see if Corbyn will be allowed to stand automatically (- which I believe he is entitled to since he's the incumbent leader who's being challenged and the 20% rule only applies to 'challengers').

The rebels know that if Corbyn is allowed to stand then he'll win. But if he's not allowed to stand automatically then the big guns will throw their hats into the ring.

Angela Eagle is just the sacrificial lamb. Either way she's toast. And she's too thick to even figure that out.
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one thing i think that is a very important and under the radar corollary is how injudicious it is to lay ones loyalty to any party given how much they change and how opaque they are. not the thread or time to make an issue of it, but labour voters are the worst culprits in this regard. their own party has and is the worst culprits of the issues they raise against the tories.

im an ex-tory voter, which i became after seeing what blair had done; but i think the whole catastrophy of the last two weeks has shown that politics in this country at least is entirely untrustworthy and corrupt - so to defend one element of it by hook or by crook is indefensible in my opinion.

as much as i think corbynomics are a clear and obvious disaster particurly after reading his economic manifesto, i still think of the choices available, he is the only viable candidate. labour ex corbyn is far far worse than the tories in pretty much any and all respects.
 
(i mean i became a tory voter after having voted blair in and seeing how bad labour were. now im ex tory after the party wide policy on divisive hate mongering to effect their agenda, cf the london mayoral election campaign)
 
[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] has it right I think. Ms Eagle is a stalking horse. She doesn't impress me particularly, though at least she has Cabinet experience and is an Oxford grad. Mr Corbyn will get his name on the ballot, win again and then Labour will split, with Mr Burnham leading the new centre-left party, I think. We need somebody capable and competent to hold the new PM to account.
 
Over the weekend I pondered on how Mr Corbyn is able to engage so many youngsters.

To begin with, I thought it is because they are not old enough to remember Britain when we gave his type of policy a go.

But that wouldn't explain how they are able to look past the utter incompetence of the man - worst leader in Labour history - his sheer lack of understanding, the dreadful record at PMQ, the disastrous media appearances, the failure to win council seats, the failure of the Remain vote, the loss of traditional Labour voters, the refusal to rein in the violent intimidation tactics by some of his supporters, the will to achieve nothing except stay in his job.

Then I realised it. He reminds them of Dumbledore, or Gandalf. Kindly old white-bearded
gent saying encouraging things. That's what he's got.

Labour has been overrun by Harry Potter fans!
 
it looks like labour is finished for a long time.

whether corbyn ends up on the ballot or not, and whether he wins or not, the facts are that polls are showing a substantial loss in confidence in him even amongst the wider membership now and particularly union membership; the facts are also that the plp have shown themselves to be backstabbing opportunists that are closet tories without the economic nouse; and to boot, the whole process is taking so much longer than the equivalent on the other side of the house, which has wrapped up their whole process in a week.

the level of incompetence, lack of self respect and establishment fed treachery is staggering.

it leaves no viable party that is worth supporting, which is why i think the brewing hate and discontent that underpinned brexit will continue, whilst whitehall is proving them right in considering mp's as self serving untrustworthy incompetents.
 
I don't think those are all facts [MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION]. Some points are opinion. What we see here is a war between the hard leftists, who don't care about getting into power as long as they stay ideologically pure, and the 172 who are prepared to compromise themselves to get into power, so they can actually do some good for poorer people.

As for the Tories, practicality rules - they do what works - which is why they have been in power for 24 of the last 37 years with power to add, punctuated only by the similarly practical Blairites.
 
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godzilla said:
it looks like labour is finished for a long time.

whether corbyn ends up on the ballot or not, and whether he wins or not, the facts are that polls are showing a substantial loss in confidence in him even amongst the wider membership now and particularly union membership; the facts are also that the plp have shown themselves to be backstabbing opportunists that are closet tories without the economic nouse; and to boot, the whole process is taking so much longer than the equivalent on the other side of the house, which has wrapped up their whole process in a week.

the level of incompetence, lack of self respect and establishment fed treachery is staggering.

it leaves no viable party that is worth supporting, which is why i think the brewing hate and discontent that underpinned brexit will continue, whilst whitehall is proving them right in considering mp's as self serving untrustworthy incompetents.
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Robert said:
I don't think those are all facts [MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION]. Some points are opinion. What we see here is a war between the hard leftists, who don't care about getting into power as long as they stay ideologically pure, and the 172 who are prepared to compromise themselves to get into power, so they can actually do some good for poorer people.

As for the Tories, practicality rules - they do what works - which is why they have been in power for 24 of the last 37 years with power to add, punctuated only by the similarly practical Blairites.
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Over the last few days, I have been reading the (online) versions of every news story on all the main media outlets (the main print media, the BBC, Sky News ..) involving Corbyn, Angela Eagle, the Labour Party leadership, the Rebels ... and I have been staggered as to the amount of negative coverage given to Corbyn, in sharp contrast to the positive (or nearly positive) coverage about Angela Eagle and the Rebels.

One example is the interview given by Angela Eagle to Andrew Neil on Sunday morning. I watched the interview live, and she was completely and utterly hopeless. And yet not one single main media outlet reported this fact accurately. They either ignored it or put a positive pro-Angela Eagle spin on it. Newspaper owners/editors by definition are not short of a pound or two, and there's no way on earth they'd allow the type of policies that Corbyn wishes to introduce. But they can't say that openly. so they attack Corbyn instead. But I'm surprised that the BBC is also being biased to the extent they appear to be.
 
godzilla said:
it looks like labour is finished for a long time.

whether corbyn ends up on the ballot or not, and whether he wins or not, the facts are that polls are showing a substantial loss in confidence in him even amongst the wider membership now and particularly union membership; the facts are also that the plp have shown themselves to be backstabbing opportunists that are closet tories without the economic nouse; and to boot, the whole process is taking so much longer than the equivalent on the other side of the house, which has wrapped up their whole process in a week.

the level of incompetence, lack of self respect and establishment fed treachery is staggering.

it leaves no viable party that is worth supporting, which is why i think the brewing hate and discontent that underpinned brexit will continue, whilst whitehall is proving them right in considering mp's as self serving untrustworthy incompetents.
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you've been conned by the deep state Mandelson chicanery, they have moved from just controlling media 'spin' to vertically integrating up the 'supply chain' and now run/influence their own polling houses

The supposed 'Union membership' poll being trumpeted by compliant journalists is from a Ian Warren a 'self taught' pollster who goes under the 'official sounding name' of Election Data (@election_data), he has been anti-Corbyn for a long time and has previously expressed support for Liz Kendall (the previous Blairite candidate)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/alioli58">@alioli58</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/earthygirl01">@earthygirl01</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/election_data">@election_data</a> charlatan Ian Warren handpicked totally unrepresentative sample to damn Corbyn</p>— Craig Murray (@CraigMurrayOrg) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/729702177183289344">9 May 2016</a></blockquote>
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If you want a real indication of the strength of the Labour Party look at the membership increase recently to over 500,000 paying members, that isn't £3 liggers, that's people paying c.£50 a year membership giving the Party annual income of c.£20-25m even before Union fees / Other donors. That's a larger membership than Blair 'Things Can Only Get Better' heyday.

And as indicator of the massive groundswell of support for Corbyn check out what happened to Angela Eagles facebook page when she launched her campaign, it was flooded with 19,000+ messages from Corbyn supporters

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now approaching 19,000 pro-Corbyn comments on Angela Eagle's Facebook leadership launch page. <a href="https://t.co/4W9s5mv5fW">pic.twitter.com/4W9s5mv5fW</a></p>— Two Flames (@msjenniferjames) <a href="https://twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/752578028681760768">11 July 2016</a></blockquote>
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corbyn wins the ballot debate at least! now lets see how many little brown eggs eagle lays.
 
Corbyn on the ballot.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Corbyn is on the ballot - Labour rebels lose by four.</p>— George Eaton (@georgeeaton) <a href="https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/752937377849573376">12 July 2016</a></blockquote>
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s28 said:
you've been conned by the deep state Mandelson chicanery, they have moved from just controlling media 'spin' to vertically integrating up the 'supply chain' and now run/influence their own polling houses

The supposed 'Union membership' poll being trumpeted by compliant journalists is from a Ian Warren a 'self taught' pollster who goes under the 'official sounding name' of Election Data (@election_data), he has been anti-Corbyn for a long time and has previously expressed support for Liz Kendall (the previous Blairite candidate)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/alioli58">@alioli58</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/earthygirl01">@earthygirl01</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/election_data">@election_data</a> charlatan Ian Warren handpicked totally unrepresentative sample to damn Corbyn</p>— Craig Murray (@CraigMurrayOrg) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/729702177183289344">9 May 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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id be happy if i have been conned, id rather the reality was different. i came to the opinion after searching for recent polls after seeing a youtube clip from an LBC broadcast a few days ago making the point on polls.

i dont pretend to have done a thorough research, but it wasnt cursory either. all seemed to pint in the same direction, although i agree with all the comments above that the establishment machine is likely hard at work.

i guess we will know soon enough. im not sure why everyone things the swell in membership is pro-corbyn, i hope it is. but perhaps its not?
 
Robert said:
I don't think those are all facts [MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION]. Some points are opinion. What we see here is a war between the hard leftists, who don't care about getting into power as long as they stay ideologically pure, and the 172 who are prepared to compromise themselves to get into power, so they can actually do some good for poorer people.

As for the Tories, practicality rules - they do what works - which is why they have been in power for 24 of the last 37 years with power to add, punctuated only by the similarly practical Blairites.
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fair enough. the first bit seemed to be, the second was perhaps a little poetic ease.

i disagree that the rebels are looking to help the people. i think if this process has shown anything its that they are ignoring the people and helping themselves.

but the bigger issue in my opinion hinges around a disagreement on your last sentiment, i think that both parties have led us the people down a garden path which has resulted in this quagmire of the poverty stricken lazy entitled, and the hyper greed inflated elite.

its the middle classes which have been the funding engine, which have been bled dry and have been culled, and the policies of both parties have continued that trend which is unsustainable, and which is why i think we have had such a broad groundswell of anti-establishment protest manifest in both things like corbyn, and the referendum result.
 
Corbyn automatically on the ballot, as he should have been.

Corbyn vs Eagle vs ????? - will anyone else have a go??
 
So assuming Corbyn wins again how does he unite the party afterwards? As it stands he does not even have enough people to fill his shadow cabinet.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
So assuming Corbyn wins again how does he unite the party afterwards? As it stands he does not even have enough people to fill his shadow cabinet.
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I'm betting that at least some of the rebels are now regretting their decision to rebel. Corbyn is likely to win again, most likely with a huge new mandate. The rebels have now antagonised members of their local parties, members who do the footwork of going door-to-door pushing Labour Party candidates leaflets through letter boxes.

The rebels are now caught between a rock and a hard place. And not all of them can or will jump ship and join a new breakaway party.

Expect at least some of the rebels to un-rebel.
 
NEC have rightly decided Corbyn will be on the ballot for the leadership election.

John McTernan has been on BBC News with a hysterical reaction saying this is the end of the Labour Party and makes a split inevitable. Really ? And keeping Corbyn off the ballot wouldn't ?

Now what there needs to be is an open and well contested leadership election. Sorry, but Angela Eagle inspires nobody and is not leadership material. Where are the likes of Dan Jarvis and Chuka Umunna hiding ? Surprised they haven't put their name forward.
 
Jarvis and Umunna are empty Blairite vessels with no integrity or policy ideas which differ from Tories.

When they open their mouths they give the game away.

Won't survive hustings process

Labours big problem is Iraq War and Austerity. They are continuity Blairites.
 
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s28 said:
Jarvis and Umunna are empty Blairite vessels with no integrity or policy ideas which differ from Tories.

When they open their mouths they give the game away.

Won't survive hustings process

Labours big problem is Iraq War and Austerity. They are continuity Blairites.
Click to expand...

Clearly post-Chilcot anyone who voted for the Iraq War is a non-starter.

However the point is if the rebels are so insistent Corbyn's the wrong man, then have the guts to make your case and STAND.
 
s28 said:
Jarvis and Umunna are empty Blairite vessels with no integrity or policy ideas which differ from Tories.

When they open their mouths they give the game away.

Won't survive hustings process

Labours big problem is Iraq War and Austerity. They are continuity Blairites.
Click to expand...
Umunna on tv yesterday "I'm a lawyer. I have read the rules. Corbyn needs 51 nominees"
And later
"I've been a Labour Party member for 20 years!"
And the riposte by the Labour Party member arguing with him "And I've been a Labour Party member for twice as long!" (and the tone of her voice suggesting 'before you were born')
 
Chuka Umunna makes me sick. I saw that interview on Daily Politics. Little squirt tried to talk down to that lady who I believe is on the NEC and she handled his hectoring very well.
 
James said:
Corbyn automatically on the ballot, as he should have been.

Corbyn vs Eagle vs ????? - will anyone else have a go??
Click to expand...
Some suggestions that Eagle will pull out and that she was used just to get things going

Owen Smith likely to join the race
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Some suggestions that Eagle will pull out and that she was used just to get things going

Owen Smith likely to join the race
Click to expand...
She's the stalking horse to check out if Corbyn could have been excluded. Had he not been allowed on the ballot automatically, he would not have been able to stand, and then Angela Eagle would have been forced to move aside to let the big guns fight it out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Angela Eagle now pulls out, and no one else decides to challenge. And thus deprive Corbyn of another resounding victory and a new mandate.
 
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Eagle should withdraw her challenge - no way she is going to win! Time for her to go back to being a nobody!
 
More "kinder" politics on show.

The constituency office of the Labour MP Angela Eagle has been vandalised following the launch of her campaign to unseat Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the party.

Merseyside police said they attended Eagle’s constituency office in the Liscard area of Wallasey, Merseyside, on Tuesday and were investigating a report of criminal damage.

A spokesperson for Eagle said a brick had been thrown through the window of the office either overnight or on Tuesday morning.
Click to expand...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ffice-vandalised-after-leadership-bid-launch#
 
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It's not her office as such it's Wallasey CLP office who actually support Corbyn and have a no confidence motion tabled against Eagle, anyone could've smashed this small window.
 
Ummuna is bit of a coward, that much we know from his very brief and aborted leadership bid last time.

though he is my MP and I voted for him twice. If he wasn't a labour candidate, would he be elected, most certainly not.

It would be fun to see some of these blairites get de-seated or fight an election as independents.

Ummuna should remember what happened to Oona King.
 
No other politician in the UK gets this reception

He packs out halls, people love him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Thank you for such a warm reception at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JC4PM?src=hash">#JC4PM</a> - we'll harness this energy for the real change that the country needs <a href="https://t.co/N32MMaEx7Q">pic.twitter.com/N32MMaEx7Q</a></p>— Jeremy Corbyn MP (@jeremycorbyn) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/752990953544228865">12 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
i was disappointed to hear jezza imply that he will let bygones be bygones in trying to unite the party going forwards. it might just be posturing and the right thing to say, but if he makes the same mistake of giving representation to all opinions which would be 80% rebels, i reckon the next time will be a far more insidious mutiny. he has taken peoples imagination with a promise of social justice. that has to include some high level weeding and culling.

anyone know what percentage of the plp actually voted against iraq? i suspect with very heavy heart that chilcot will be forgotten in a week or two, and all the culprits will escape scott free.
 
Markhor said:
John McTernan has been on BBC News with a hysterical reaction saying this is the end of the Labour Party and makes a split inevitable. Really ? And keeping Corbyn off the ballot wouldn't ?
.
Click to expand...

IMO the split is binary and deep. There is no way back from here. If the bulk of the PLP think Mr Corbyn is not up to the job of Leader they will not support him as a potential PM. Better to start a new party or join the Lib Dems. Mr Farron might not like that though, as a lot of them are smarter and more capable than him!
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When Labour's big problem is working class feels ignored/dispossessed, asking them to pay £25 for say in leadership election seems crass</p>— Robert Peston (@Peston) <a href="https://twitter.com/Peston/status/753142977619517440">13 July 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour MPs leave door open for hard left through trade union membership while closing one for centrists with £25 fee <a href="https://t.co/vJHA9DadhR">https://t.co/vJHA9DadhR</a></p>— Tom McTague (@TomMcTague) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/753122329409032192">13 July 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
the fact that there will be no opposition for two months is more worrying.

this party is a joke.
 
Would be a good time for Mrs May to spring a GE but I think that would be illegal under the new Act. She must wait until 2020.
 
godzilla said:
i was disappointed to hear jezza imply that he will let bygones be bygones in trying to unite the party going forwards. it might just be posturing and the right thing to say, but if he makes the same mistake of giving representation to all opinions which would be 80% rebels, i reckon the next time will be a far more insidious mutiny. he has taken peoples imagination with a promise of social justice. that has to include some high level weeding and culling.

anyone know what percentage of the plp actually voted against iraq? i suspect with very heavy heart that chilcot will be forgotten in a week or two, and all the culprits will escape scott free.
Click to expand...

He might say that probably true intention (not spin) but beneath him the likes of McDonnell, Milne and Lansman are mobilising. Note the NEC banned CLP meetings. Many CLP meetings were going to be targeted by new members to deselect the Blairite MPs. That will happen just delayed though.
 
s28 said:
.<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is my reading of the political leanings of 172 Labour MPs who voted against Jeremy in the no confidence motion <a href="https://t.co/1uYU3vQdwS">pic.twitter.com/1uYU3vQdwS</a></p>— Éoin (@LabourEoin) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/748936341690482688">1 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Not all the 172 are 'splitters'. I'd say many know they would die without the Labour/Unions grassroots and infrastructure so there will be splits even within splitters. A General Election and Deselections will sort out the die-hard Blairites.
 
s28 said:
He might say that probably true intention (not spin) but beneath him the likes of McDonnell, Milne and Lansman are mobilising. Note the NEC banned CLP meetings. Many CLP meetings were going to be targeted by new members to deselect the Blairite MPs. That will happen just delayed though.
Click to expand...

how ca they constitutionally ban clp meetings? just goes to show dysfunctional the party is.
 
Mrs May's current approval rating is 55%, rising to 81% among Tory voters.

Mr Corbyn's is 24%, rising to 45% among Labour voters (MORI poll yesterday).
 
I think Paul Mason is a guy who 'gets it'. The Coup may be a great moment for Labour

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If all us little folk stand together, we're not so little. If all us ordinary folk stay strong, we're notso ordinary <a href="https://t.co/rW8cKBsSzy">pic.twitter.com/rW8cKBsSzy</a></p>— Éoin (@LabourEoin) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/753274999843201026">13 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Latest polling even when supposedly 'Labour imploding' its UKIP falling, Labour rising

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Westminster voting intentions so far this year. The latest average puts the Tories ahead by four points: <a href="https://t.co/Gae0JzCuEx">pic.twitter.com/Gae0JzCuEx</a></p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/753217900056604672">13 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
wow the polling situation really changing quickly

Cameron for all his faults was seen as 'safe pair of hands'. May is an unknown quantity and Corbyn showing his resilience whilst all the Tory pretenders fell away demonstrated what a genuinely strong leader he is.

This is serious headway.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Look behind the headlines! <a href="https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI">@IpsosMORI</a> poll shows <a href="https://twitter.com/UKLabour">@UKLabour</a> leading by 5 points! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CorbynStays?src=hash">#CorbynStays</a> <a href="https://t.co/WwNiBkv4UR">https://t.co/WwNiBkv4UR</a> <a href="https://t.co/KeNbRL6IQZ">pic.twitter.com/KeNbRL6IQZ</a></p>— Charley Allan (@charleyallan) <a href="https://twitter.com/charleyallan/status/753350124106092544">13 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
As people realise how Tory Brexit has damaged the economy it will I think lead to further improvement in Corbyn position. Also now UKIP supporters have got Brexit they can return to natural Con/Lab orthodoxy.
 
Robert said:
Would be a good time for Mrs May to spring a GE but I think that would be illegal under the new Act. She must wait until 2020.
Click to expand...
An early election before the 5 year fixed term finishes can be called if either there is a motion of no confidence in the government, or at least 75% of the total number of MP's in the House of Commons vote for a new election (an MP abstaining is therefore effectively voting against).

PM May of course is not going to go for a no confidence motion against herself and her own government (- although if it was Labour in power, going by their current circus, you wouldn't put it past them to do so against themselves!).

If she goes for the 75+% House of Commons vote option, Labour would be in a fix. They can't very well say "no, we don't want an early election, you Tory's can stay in power", whilst if there is an election, they'll get wiped out considering their current in-fighting.

If PM May had any sense, she'd go for a snap election immediately, wipe out Labour, and at the same time claim legitimacy for her own premiership against accusations of being anointed without an election, an accusation she herself made against MP Gordon Brown.
 
Election campaign would be over next few quarters where Brexit economic turmoil could start to hit (2008 Global Financial Crisis really took off Aug/Sept). Rating agencies reducing credit score on UK Govt debt. Property market looking like we could see a crash. Given high dependence of UK economy on housing market and the effect on bank balance sheets could easily see a banking crisis. As polls show things are very unpredictable. May won't call an Election. Corbyn and his team demanding one because they could get 'trigger ballots' to de-select troublesome MPs in preparation for new election. Of course the at risk Blairite MPs will not vote for that so unlikely to get 75% threshold.
 
godzilla said:
the fact that there will be no opposition for two months is more worrying.

this party is a joke.
Click to expand...

If she is willing to take the risk and be ruthless and cruel, Theresa May should just call a General Election now, if she is allowed to.

The Conservative Party is so dominant in Westminster at the moment that she would end up with over 400 seats. Labour voters have no person and no certain future to vote for.

But it is still a risk to her to do it, and it may not be legal to do it...
 
James said:
If she is willing to take the risk and be ruthless and cruel, Theresa May should just call a General Election now, if she is allowed to.

The Conservative Party is so dominant in Westminster at the moment that she would end up with over 400 seats. Labour voters have no person and no certain future to vote for.

But it is still a risk to her to do it, and it may not be legal to do it...
Click to expand...

i partly agree - i think there is no legal prerogative for her to be able to do it. but im not so sure it will be a landslide. the last polls i saw indicated ukip were falling away with all the other parties benefitting. i think corbyn is very popular with the public too, its only the blairite plp that seem oblivious to that.

but thats just a vague opinion.
 
It's war

400,000 members + Unions vs about 50-70 Blairite MPs

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Unite policy conference backs mandatory re selection of Labour MPs</p>— iain watson (@iainjwatson) <a href="https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/753598300322955264">14 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
godzilla said:
i partly agree - i think there is no legal prerogative for her to be able to do it. but im not so sure it will be a landslide. the last polls i saw indicated ukip were falling away with all the other parties benefitting. i think corbyn is very popular with the public too, its only the blairite plp that seem oblivious to that.

but thats just a vague opinion.
Click to expand...

Not sure that there is any real evidence of Corbyn being particularly popular with the general public. In the local council elections Labour's performance was pretty average.
 
i partly agree - i think there is no legal prerogative for her to be able to do it. but im not so sure it will be a landslide. the last polls i saw indicated ukip were falling away with all the other parties benefitting. i think corbyn is very popular with the public too, its only the blairite plp that seem oblivious to that.

but thats just a vague opinion.
Click to expand...
James said:
If she is willing to take the risk and be ruthless and cruel, Theresa May should just call a General Election now, if she is allowed to.

The Conservative Party is so dominant in Westminster at the moment that she would end up with over 400 seats. Labour voters have no person and no certain future to vote for.

But it is still a risk to her to do it, and it may not be legal to do it...
Click to expand...
See post #704 above
 
Last edited:
Can she not just repeal the fixed term parliament act which would only require a simple majority in the commons?

It's academic anyway as she won't risk another election imo.


Yossarian said:
An early election before the 5 year fixed term finishes can be called if either there is a motion of no confidence in the government, or at least 75% of the total number of MP's in the House of Commons vote for a new election (an MP abstaining is therefore effectively voting against).

PM May of course is not going to go for a no confidence motion against herself and her own government (- although if it was Labour in power, going by their current circus, you wouldn't put it past them to do so against themselves!).

If she goes for the 75+% House of Commons vote option, Labour would be in a fix. They can't very well say "no, we don't want an early election, you Tory's can stay in power", whilst if there is an election, they'll get wiped out considering their current in-fighting.

If PM May had any sense, she'd go for a snap election immediately, wipe out Labour, and at the same time claim legitimacy for her own premiership against accusations of being anointed without an election, an accusation she herself made against MP Gordon Brown.
Click to expand...
 
James said:
Not sure that there is any real evidence of Corbyn being particularly popular with the general public. In the local council elections Labour's performance was pretty average.
Click to expand...
I'd call that generous - they should have gained hundreds of Councillors, which is what usually happens as the protest vote against the sitting Govt, especially one generating as much antipathy as the New Right Tories.

This leads me to believe that Corbynism is a personality cult. Instead of a Leader he is an icon of the anti-establishment feeling held by many, as well as a subconscious reference to a lot of brave grandfatherly fantasy characters such as Gandalf, Obi-wan (Alec Guinness version) and Dumbledore who struggle against evil empires.

Whether that could translate into a Parliamentary majority remains to be seen.
 
James said:
Not sure that there is any real evidence of Corbyn being particularly popular with the general public. In the local council elections Labour's performance was pretty average.
Click to expand...

posts 701 and 702 in this thread??
 
Robert said:
I'd call that generous - they should have gained hundreds of Councillors, which is what usually happens as the protest vote against the sitting Govt, especially one generating as much antipathy as the New Right Tories.

This leads me to believe that Corbynism is a personality cult. Instead of a Leader he is an icon of the anti-establishment feeling held by many, as well as a subconscious reference to a lot of brave grandfatherly fantasy characters such as Gandalf, Obi-wan (Alec Guinness version) and Dumbledore who struggle against evil empires.

Whether that could translate into a Parliamentary majority remains to be seen.
Click to expand...

even if thats true - i think im not far from that position myself - look at the alternatives. it ought to be a landslide.
 
.<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/DisarmQuaker">@DisarmQuaker</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/attentat_">@attentat_</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CNDuk">@CNDuk</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/BritishQuakers">@BritishQuakers</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/paxchristiuk">@paxchristiuk</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/ICAN_UK">@ICAN_UK</a> <br>And not just lefty argument <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StopTrident?src=hash">#StopTrident</a> <a href="https://t.co/PJPSwsFuDh">pic.twitter.com/PJPSwsFuDh</a></p>— TheBirminghamSix (@TheBirmingham6) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/753538884588437505">14 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
.<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tory Crispin Blunt, chair of Foreign Affairs SC, on BBC says will be voting AGAINST Trident. Says its too expensive.</p>— s'dali (@szczuk6) <a href="https://twitter.com/szczuk6/status/754997396195663872">18 July 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Obviously I want Trident renewed. If the Yanks decide to leave NATO we would be reliant on the French nuclear umbrella as more and more nations join the nuclear club.
 
Will be a straightforward vote in favour of renewal.

Not sure how it could ever be any different - nuclear disarmament needs to be led by the United Nations and unilateral / simultaneous. Trump/Clinton, Putin, May, Hollande, and the Chinese leader (pardon my ignorance) need to all be televised in the same room signing it together.
 
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