Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April [Post #1698]

[Gabbar Singh]

Even Gideon feels sorry for Labour.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The disintegration of the Labour Party is not good for democracy. Oppositions are meant to try to win by-elections, not slip from 2nd to 4th</p>— George Osborne (@George_Osborne) <a href="https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/807143207654014976">9 December 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[s28]

Gideon is part of the Blairite REMAIN faction. He is bitter because his legacy is to destroy the nations finances on an incompetent austerity programme whilst taking Britain out of the EU. This is desperation on his part to try to get Labour under Corbyn to back the anti-democratic Remoaners like Blair, Cameron, Farron

Surprised you need this explaining to you? I think you need to decide whether you are here to impart genuine information and debate or simply use troll tactics?

 

[Robert]

The government are in disarray yet Her Majesty's Opposition were a few hundred votes away from coming 5th in a by-election almost 2 years into parliament. Even the toxic Tories, as they were back then, in the late 90s and early 00s were doing better than this in by-elections and they were up against Blair in his prime.

I wonder how Corbyn devotees will spin this one.

Labour should be ahead in the polls yet despite the Brexit fiasco, May still has a net 11% approval rating while Corbyn languishes at -26%. Corbyn is toxic to the electorate but the fan club cannot see that.

Labour could yet win if they elect one of Burnham, Starmer, Jarvis as Leader but they are being forced to play the long game. I think they have to accept a crushing loss in 2020, hope that Corbyn resigns, and rebuild for 2025.

 

[Robert]

Last main council election cycle: LD net +45, LAB -18, Tories -48

Since the last main cycle, LD net +22, LAB -11, Tories -11.

Labour have vacated the centre leaving space for the Lib Dems to hoover up support from people looking for economic competence with social justice.

 

[s28]

You are right - Liz is the most likely candidate to beat Cameron/Gideon/Boris at the next election but Labour members seem too stupid to see this.

She won't win the leadership contest.

The latest odds....


View attachment 58780

When you see people making predictions and notice they supported the unelectable Liz Kendall and thought that Liz would be taking on Cameron/Osborn/Johnson in 2020. Laughable. It is because we have 'political experts' like this (who simply regurgitate and parrot Establishment views) that politics is held in such disrepute.

Meanwhile Liz Kendall's right wing economic plan (i.e. copying the Tories but claiming to be Labour) is being abandoned by the Tories and many Tories are realising that Corbyn was right and moving to the left of even the Labour Right

 

[Robert]

Lib Dems take three more council seats from the Tories. That is +80 this year, Tories -62, Labour -28. The people want economically competent, socially conscious centrist government. Come and join the real opposition @s28.

 

[s28]

Excellent a Corbyn critic being kicked out of Labour

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Prescott's reaction to Jamie Reed's resignation&#55357;&#56613;&#55357;&#56613;&#55357;&#56613;<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/labourleadership?src=hash">#labourleadership</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/shotsfired?src=hash">#shotsfired</a> <a href="http://t.co/G5Z3OZumaN">pic.twitter.com/G5Z3OZumaN</a></p>— Alex (@CutForDonnellan) <a href="https://twitter.com/CutForDonnellan/status/642704645622775808">12 September 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Gabbar Singh]

The resulting by-election should be interesting - Copeland has been a Labour seat for over 80 years (since 1935). If Labour cannot retain this seat then they are doomed.

 

[endymion248]

Lib Dems take three more council seats from the Tories. That is +80 this year, Tories -62, Labour -28. The people want economically competent, socially conscious centrist government. Come and join the real opposition @s28.

Lib Dems (and centrist parties) can never thrive in a First Past the Post system.

Not only that but people don't want a party that is liberal both in economic and social terms. They want populism, be it economic (labour), social (tories) or both (extreme-right, ukip etc...).

 

[Yossarian]

The resulting by-election should be interesting - Copeland has been a Labour seat for over 80 years (since 1935). If Labour cannot retain this seat then they are doomed.

Dozens of traditional Labour seats, which had been Labour for many decades, went Tory in 2010, and more did the same in 2015. The reverse was the case when Labour came into power in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government. So traditional seats switching is nothing new.

So pinning all the blame on Corbyn, as if he alone has been responsible for Labour's downward spiral for the last decade or so, which has included Labour losing two General Elections during that time when Corbyn was not even a junior Govt. Minister or Shadow Minister, never mind being leader, is nothing but Blairite spin. ie By those who are actually responsible for this downward trend and for losing the last two elections. And yet the unwashed still fall for this Blairite revision of history.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Dozens of traditional Labour seats, which had been Labour for many decades, went Tory in 2010, and more did the same in 2015. The reverse was the case when Labour came into power in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government. So traditional seats switching is nothing new.

So pinning all the blame on Corbyn, as if he alone has been responsible for Labour's downward spiral for the last decade, or sowhich has included Labour losing two General Elections during that time when Corbyn was not even a junior Govt. Minister or Shadow Minister, never mind being leader, is nothing but Blairite spin. ie By those who are actually responsible for this downward trend and for losing the last two elections. And yet the unwashed still fall for this Blairite revision of history.

And yet despite "Labour's downward spiral for the last decade or so" they've won this seat under Blair, Brown and Miliband. Sorry but if as an opposition party, 2 years into parliament, they cannot win at a by-election a seat they've held for 81 consecutive years then Corbyn won't be able to run away from that result and blame it on others.

 

[Yossarian]

And yet despite "Labour's downward spiral for the last decade or so" they've won this seat under Blair, Brown and Miliband. Sorry but if as an opposition party, 2 years into parliament, they cannot win at a by-election a seat they've held for 81 consecutive years then Corbyn won't be able to run away from that result and blame it on others.

The quality and local popularity of the candidates, along with tactical voting by supporters of others parties, has a far bigger influence on by-elections than the popularity or otherwise of the party leader. When the Greens won the Richmond Park seat in the recent by-election, was that due to Theresa May? It certainly was going by your logic.

 

[s28]

Yes Tory vote was zero in Richmond despite the 'new leader' honeymoon. Devastating for Theresa May. It's easy to spin narratives if you want to lie to people as some on this thread seem desperate to do. Or to be charitable they are simply gullible enough to believe the spin they are fed by mainstream media and don't have capability to question it independently.

 

[Robert]

Dozens of traditional Labour seats, which had been Labour for many decades, went Tory in 2010, and more did the same in 2015. The reverse was the case when Labour came into power in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government. So traditional seats switching is nothing new.

So pinning all the blame on Corbyn, as if he alone has been responsible for Labour's downward spiral for the last decade or so, which has included Labour losing two General Elections during that time when Corbyn was not even a junior Govt. Minister or Shadow Minister, never mind being leader, is nothing but Blairite spin. ie By those who are actually responsible for this downward trend and for losing the last two elections. And yet the unwashed still fall for this Blairite revision of history.

1. Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband were not Blairites.

2. Were it not for the Blairites, we would have had uninterrupted Tory rule for the last 37 years with at least another nine more to come.

3. If David Milliband had been elected leader in 2010 we would have had a Labour government for the past six years.

For Labour to win they have to move back to the centre.

 

[Robert]

Lib Dems (and centrist parties) can never thrive in a First Past the Post system.

Not only that but people don't want a party that is liberal both in economic and social terms. They want populism, be it economic (labour), social (tories) or both (extreme-right, ukip etc...).

Some truth in this.

 

[Robert]

The resulting by-election should be interesting - Copeland has been a Labour seat for over 80 years (since 1935). If Labour cannot retain this seat then they are doomed.

It's an interesting one. All the Tories have to do is tread water and keep their vote at 2015 levels. If 3% of Labour leave voters go to UKIP and 3% of Labour Remainers go to LD, Tories are in.

 

[Yossarian]

1. Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband were not Blairites.

2. Were it not for the Blairites, we would have had uninterrupted Tory rule for the last 37 years with at least another nine more to come.

But they were both part of the Blairite government. In Brown's case during the entire time Blair was in power/ was leader.

General Election - no of Labour MP's
1997 - 418
2001 - 412
2005 - 355
2010 - 258
2015 - 232

See the trend? And Corbyn was nowhere near being even a junior minister (or shadow minister), never mind labour leader during any of them.

And yet apparently it's all Corbyn's fault?

3. If David Milliband had been elected leader in 2010 we would have had a Labour government for the past six years.

If David Milliband's own brother didn't trust him and stabbed him in the back, coupled with David Milliband also being an out and out Blairite, do you think the voting public would have trusted him? Don't be too sure.

For Labour to win they have to move back to the centre.

See reply to point 1. above. Check the trend for 'centre' Labour.

 

[Robert]

But they were both part of the Blairite government. In Brown's case during the entire time Blair was in power/ was leader.

General Election - no of Labour MP's
1997 - 418
2001 - 412
2005 - 355
2010 - 258
2015 - 232

See the trend? And Corbyn was nowhere near being even a junior minister (or shadow minister), never mind labour leader during any of them.

And yet apparently it's all Corbyn's fault?
If David Milliband's own brother didn't trust him and stabbed him in the back, coupled with David Milliband also being an out and out Blairite, do you think the voting public would have trusted him? Don't be too sure.

See reply to point 1. above. Check the trend for 'centre' Labour.

I'm not saying the Corbyn is responsible for Labour's decline - I am saying that his presence as leader makes it impossible for them to recover and form a Government.

I am sure that DM would be PM today, in a minority government which made a deal with the SNP. The Tory majority is wafer-thin. A telegenic and articulate person with leadership skills who could appeal to the centre voters would have swung it for Labour.

 

[HussainRx8]

I'm not saying the Corbyn is responsible for Labour's decline - I am saying that his presence as leader makes it impossible for them to recover and form a Government.

I am sure that DM would be PM today, in a minority government which made a deal with the SNP. The Tory majority is wafer-thin. A telegenic and articulate person with leadership skills who could appeal to the centre voters would have swung it for Labour.

Who do you think the Labour would turn to after a thumping General Election defeat under Comrade Corbyn in 2020?

 

[Robert]

Yes Tory vote was zero in Richmond despite the 'new leader' honeymoon.

That would be a reasonable statement given that they did not field a candidate.

As was, the Tory-in-all-but-name Goldsmith got 45% of the vote.

Labour lost their deposit for the first time in a London election in a century.

 

[Junaids]

Who do you think the Labour would turn to after a thumping General Election defeat under Comrade Corbyn in 2020?

Andy Burnham.

And I think he will do well. Luckily for him, the Tories will be in the brief post-Brexit recession before trade is reorientated away from Europe and across the Atlantic.

 

[Robert]

Who do you think the Labour would turn to after a thumping General Election defeat under Comrade Corbyn in 2020?

With Momentum acting as a wrecker within Labour they are going nowhere. When Corbyn finally stands down then the fan club will wither and there will be a higher density of activists with practical heads instead of dreamers. Or Momentum might split off from Labour and form their own hard left party.

Perhaps a left leader with management skills and more charisma could emerge to replace Corbyn but I cannot think who that could be. Under such a person they could get Scotland back from the SNP and that could pave the way back to power.

The ones I think are capable are Dan Jarvis, Chuka Umunna, Sir Kier Starmer and Andy Burnham but none of those are leftists.

 

[Junaids]

With Momentum acting as a wrecker within Labour they are going nowhere. When Corbyn finally stands down then the fan club will wither and there will be a higher density of activists with practical heads instead of dreamers. Or Momentum might split off from Labour and form their own hard left party.

Perhaps a left leader with management skills and more charisma could emerge to replace Corbyn but I cannot think who that could be. Under such a person they could get Scotland back from the SNP and that could pave the way back to power.

The ones I think are capable are Dan Jarvis, Chuka Umunna, Sir Kier Starmer and Andy Burnham but none of those are leftists.

I think we trapped Red Ed into doing our (Tory) bidding - ruling out a coalition with the SNP.

I don't think Labour can ever win back Scotland. Six years ago they should have offered the Lib Dems real Proportional Representation and ensured that Labour could always lead centre-left coalition governments. By not doing so they ensured practically endless Tory rule, with short periods only out of office.

 

[s28]

You do have to laugh at the ignorance and arrogance of the political nonentities who make predictions. They fail time after time but their arrogance and delusion prevents any self-reflection.

It was fashionable amongst this 'commentariat' to ask the question if there would ever be another Republican president after Obama won (A black guy with a Muslim name!) due to 'demographics'. 2016 was meant to be Clinton coronation and she lost badly to an incompetent inexperienced buffoon.

http://europe.newsweek.com/will-republicans-ever-win-white-house-again-483751?rm=eu

WILL THE REPUBLICANS EVER WIN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN?

By 2024, we could witness a grand total of 433 electoral votes for the Democratic nominee from 32 states, including Texas, Indiana and Missouri.

BY RONALD L. FEINMAN ON 7/25/16 AT 5:11 PM

 

[Yossarian]

I'm not saying the Corbyn is responsible for Labour's decline - I am saying that his presence as leader makes it impossible for them to recover and form a Government.

I am sure that DM would be PM today, in a minority government which made a deal with the SNP. The Tory majority is wafer-thin. A telegenic and articulate person with leadership skills who could appeal to the centre voters would have swung it for Labour.

I don't know why you keep harping on about David Milliband as if he would have been some sort of saviour. You're completely ignoring the downward trend in no. of Labour MP's elected even before his brother was elected as leader. David Milliband was a senior cabinet minister, the Foreign Secretary no less, when Labour lost the 2010 election and you're saying he would have made Labour electable when he was an integral part of the reason why they went downhill in the first place?

 

[James]

David Miliband is a dynamite politician. He has the rhetorical talent and unshakeable self-belief of Blair, but without so much of the baggage. He also supports the creation of a Palestinian state and a two-state solution. I met him in 2009 - he is charismatic, likeable and compelling. If he had been selected as the leader back then, Labour would still have my vote and I may even still be a member.

 

[s28]

David lost. He was so 'electable' he couldn't even beat his geeky brother who can't even eat a bacon sandwich properly. It's a demonstration of the bankruptcy of the political class that they keep harping on about an unelectable loser who represents a failed and discredited ideology.

 

[Robert]

I don't know why you keep harping on about David Milliband as if he would have been some sort of saviour. You're completely ignoring the downward trend in no. of Labour MP's elected even before his brother was elected as leader. David Milliband was a senior cabinet minister, the Foreign Secretary no less, when Labour lost the 2010 election and you're saying he would have made Labour electable when he was an integral part of the reason why they went downhill in the first place?

You have to have the right person at the top.

In 1997 Labour win by a huge landslide because the Tories were exhausted after sixteen years and because Blair was convincing to the centre voters. He was still convincing enough to win in 2005 even after the disastrous Iraq invasion. Having finally stepped down he gave way to Brown who I thought was a fine PM in terms of economic management skills but who could not convince enough voters to go with him, so he lost in 2010.
[MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] - Labour then chose the wrong brother. Instead of the telegenic excellent communicator who would have led them back to power by convincing the centre they went for the odd-looking, odd-sounding charisma-free technocrat who put off a swathe of centre voters. Labour are now more motivated by left-wing authenticity than picking the man with the skills to do the job well, and that will doom the country to Tory rule until 2025 at least. The have to engage the centre, to whom economic competence is the driver and will vote Tory if in doubt.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - yes, the Tories were very clever to raise that spectre and it worked to spook Odd Ed in 2015.

 

[s28]

Labour winning back support at impressive rate (i still think people underestimating Labour potential due to shy Labour effect due to MSM diatribes against Corbyn)

Lib Dems nowhere/going backwards

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Westminster voting intention: <br>CON: 38% (-3)<br>LAB: 31% (+2)<br>UKIP: 13% (+1)<br>LDEM: 6% (-1)<br>GRN: 4% (-)<br>(via Opinium / 13 - 16 Dec)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/810201247479431168">17 December 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Robert]

Lib Dems nowhere/going backwards

It's curious that the sweeping gains they are making at county council level, plus the spectacular win in Richmond are not reflected in the national polls. Their best bet is to win more Parliamentary seats in pro-Remain areas. Like Labour, they are handicapped by a leader who is not inspiring voters outside his echo-chamber.

 

[s28]

Corbyn message in one picture

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is the most fascinating and useful graphic I've ever seen on inequality. Tells most of the recent (US) story <a href="https://t.co/ItaaZiCvEb">pic.twitter.com/ItaaZiCvEb</a></p>— amol rajan (@amolrajan) <a href="https://twitter.com/amolrajan/status/813297044991438848">26 December 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[s28]

Good vid
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mP5xavI0d_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[shaz619]

Screw the lib dems, 9 grand tuition fee, NEVER FORGET

 

[Robert]

Screw the lib dems, 9 grand tuition fee, NEVER FORGET

Either that or universities would have gone bankrupt. That was the decision Clegg faced.

If left to the Tories alone, every student would have had to pay the fees back in full starting on the day after graduation. There would have be no delay while the graduate found well-paid employment, and no cutoff threshold for less well paid graduates eighter. The LDs secured these concessions. Under the Coalition, the number of students from D and E backgrounds reached record levels too.

Cleggy was one of the best PMs we never had.

 

[Yossarian]

Either that or universities would have gone bankrupt. That was the decision Clegg faced.

If left to the Tories alone, every student would have had to pay the fees back in full starting on the day after graduation. There would have be no delay while the graduate found well-paid employment, and no cutoff threshold for less well paid graduates eighter. The LDs secured these concessions. Under the Coalition, the number of students from D and E backgrounds reached record levels too.

Cleggy was one of the best PMs we never had.

Scottish universities
- Fees for Scottish students - £1,820
- Fees for Scottish students if first degree course - £0 (yes zero)
- Fees for French, German, Polish etc (ie non-UK EU) students - £0 (yes zero)
- Fees for English students - up to £9,000

Welsh universities
- Fees for Welsh students up to £9,000, minus Welsh grant up to £5,190 = max fee £3,810
- Fees for English students up to £9,000

Northern Irish universities
- Fees for Northern Irish students £3,925
- Fees for English students up to £9,000

So English universities would have gone bankrupt without the £9,000 fees. But the same does not apply to Scottish, Welsh and Irish universities?

 

[Robert]

So English universities would have gone bankrupt without the £9,000 fees. But the same does not apply to Scottish, Welsh and Irish universities?

I know for a fact that education in Scotland is heavily subsidised by the Engkish taxpayer. While I don't want to see them leave the Union, they will be in bother without us.

Somewhere with mostly humanities and languages was not so much at risk as a medical school or an engineering centre of excellence like Brunel, whose budget per student is so much higher.

This was the stark choice facing the Lib Dems when they entered Coalition. Either break their manifesto promise or see universities go to the wall. They did not know how close to the financial cliff edge the U.K. was at the time. I think Labour supporters still don't.

 

[s28]

great video by Cassetteboy on Tory Brexit

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is the best thing to come out of the Internet today. <a href="https://t.co/KADyID77Y3">pic.twitter.com/KADyID77Y3</a></p>— J. Ali (@junayed_) <a href="https://twitter.com/junayed_/status/813745430190325760">27 December 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Robert]

^^ excellent.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Another car crash interview from the glorious leader - announces a new proposal then a few hours later drops it lol. Meanwhile the Tories continue to get a free ride over their utterly incompetent handling of Brexit.

Jeremy Corbyn makes embarrassing U-turn on wage caps within hours of announcement



Jeremy Corbyn has been forced into an embarrassing climb-down over his idea on maximum pay caps after aides claimed he "mispoke" on the issue.

The idea to impose a limit on maximum earnings was mooted by Mr Corbyn in the morning, but then left out of a major speech in the afternoon in which he instead proposed other pay restraint policies.

The switch came after former close advisers branded the idea "totally idiotic", "lunatic" and "incoherent", while a frontbencher distanced herself from the policy.

The Labour Leader initially raised the idea of a maximum pay cap during broadcast interviews ahead of his first major speech of the year focusing on Britain's future after Brexit.

Then later, during a question and answer session following his speech in Peterborough, Mr Corbyn indicated that there were better ways of curbing executive pay.

He said: "You could set a limit on top pay. I think it is probably better to look at the ratio issue because that would then indeed encourage wage rises lower down and ensure a better sharing of the resources and profits in an organisation."

Asked why the cap plan was not followed up, a spokesman claimed he "mispoke" in the morning interview with BBC Radio 4's Today programme when he said he would like to see one, despite the fact that the Labour leader had also discussed the idea in an interview with Sky shortly after.

After the interviews, shadow work and pensions secretary Debbie Abrahams responded to a question on whether she would support a move to impose a cap on maximum earnings in the UK by saying, "it isn’t a policy".

Danny Blanchflower, a former adviser to the Labour leader and ex-Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee member, said the idea was "totally unworkable".

"Corbyn max wage lunatic idea would generate a huge brain drain as smart people move abroad shows how out of touch he is," he wrote on Twitter.

"If I was still an adviser I would have told him it's a totally idiotic unworkable idea."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...der-populist-relaunch-climbdown-a7520101.html

 

[Robert]

Another car crash interview from the glorious leader - announces a new proposal then a few hours later drops it lol. Meanwhile the Tories continue to get a free ride over their utterly incompetent handling of Brexit.

Yet another open goal left for the Tories. They seems to have no coherent strategy for the media. I wonder if the Shadow ministers and central office talk to each other at all. Gaffes like this would be unacceptable in a constituency party, let alone the top team.

 

[s28]

Don't see any problem with a maximum wage. The neo-liberal consensus has made criticising Markets tantamount to blasphemy. Markets are inefficient and flawed and frequently require regulatory intervention. Now is definitely the time to grasp this nettle.

 

[Robert]

The problem with a maximum wage is that it will result in a brain drain. The top people will leave and we will lose their innovation and job creation power.

Better to tax them more instead. Either raise the top rate of tax or give the Revenue more resources to make them pay their fair share instead of avoid tax.

 

[s28]

Nonsense. I used to work for a hedge fund which had a wage cap. IT's perfectly possible to implement minimum wages and maximum wages. The Market is not God.

 

[s28]

I've worked with / had job offers from some of the people mentioned in this article. A lot of these people are driven by more than money, oftentimes they say the money is 'just to keep score', so they should/do pay their taxes

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2007/apr/29/moneyinvestments.business

 

[carbon11]

totally unelectable he won't connect with the working class due to his views on immigration this guy believes east European migration is good and schengen so workers from Europe can come here and undercut U.K. Workers and companies like amazon and uber can flourish even more with cheap labour and exploitative slave like conditions.
I mean can't he see how builders mechanics plumbers electricians plasterers local drivers have all suffered due to east European workers working for cheap wages and living in overcrowded houses which have pushed up rents and caused housing crisis and pressure on NHS and schools .

 

[s28]

Here is Corbyn not connecting with the working class in Liverpool :-

Here he is not connecting with the working class in Hull :-

 

[James]

The problem with a maximum wage is that it will result in a brain drain. The top people will leave and we will lose their innovation and job creation power.

Better to tax them more instead. Either raise the top rate of tax or give the Revenue more resources to make them pay their fair share instead of avoid tax.

I agree. The 50p tax rate should be brought back as a minimum.

 

[Robert]

Here is Corbyn not connecting with the working class in Liverpool :-

Here he is not connecting with the working class in Hull :-

The problem is that this alone does not transfer into seats in Westminster. Mr C comes down to Camborne and speaks to 5000 people. But hardly more than that in Cornwall vote Labour anyway. He is not speaking to the voters outside the fan club he needs to gain seats.

Michael Foot spoke to vast crowds in 1983. Then Thatcher won by a landslide.

 

[s28]

There was no independent social media in the 1980s to amplify Michael Foot's popularity and many seasoned observers say Thatcher only won in 1983 due to the Falklands War Victory bounce.

Theresa May is no Thatcher and Brexit is a massive threat to the Economy piled atop Austerity. The Conservative claim to be safe paid of hands for the Economy is busted.

 

[Markhor]

Re: the maximum wage issue.

I'd prefer the idea of ratios within companies.

Also, make minimum wage a living wage. Osborne's much trumpeted rise a few years ago amounted to peanuts.

 

[Robert]

There was no independent social media in the 1980s to amplify Michael Foot's popularity and many seasoned observers say Thatcher only won in 1983 due to the Falklands War Victory bounce.

Yes, it was the first GE I voted it. My point is that there is no correlation between public meeting turnouts and GE results in the modern era.

Lib Dems just took Sandhill (Sunderland) from Labour in a 41% swing. That's Brexit City too.....

 

[Robert]

Lib Dem gain from Con in Gade Valley (Three Rivers) with 22% swing.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Labour MPs are now queueing up to get out. Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

Labour MP Tristram Hunt is quitting as an MP to become the director of London's Victoria and Albert Museum, triggering a by-election.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38608825?client=safari

 

[Robert]

The Stoke seat is being eliminated in the boundary changes so Mr Hunt is going to his dream job at the V&A. But it will be interesting to see if UKIP can take it in the by-election.

Over in Leeds, Mr Benn is reported to be fighting deselection....

 

[Gabbar Singh]

The Stoke seat is being eliminated in the boundary changes so Mr Hunt is going to his dream job at the V&A. But it will be interesting to see if UKIP can take it in the by-election.

Over in Leeds, Mr Benn is reported to be fighting deselection....

Hunt always came across as a man detached from real people and real issues.

And it's another example of how political roles can get you into cushy jobs. It's ironic because I'd bet that a large proportion of the folks in his constituency wouldn't even know what the Victoria and Albert Museum is all about.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Labour MP, shadow cabinet member and top Corbynista said back in November...

This is the third resignation by a Tory MP (after Cameron and Zac Goldsmith) since Teresa May became PM. Poor leadership. No clear plan.

Mmm wonder what he thinks now?

 

[s28]

Strong leadership by Corbyn, parking his tank on May's lawn

This question needs answering. Why are the political and media establishment so servile to the Zionist occupation?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Jeremy Corbyn writes to Theresa May demanding inquiry into Israeli embassy scandal <a href="https://t.co/7SvF7tGStT">https://t.co/7SvF7tGStT</a> <a href="https://t.co/8hhHwVe4qK">pic.twitter.com/8hhHwVe4qK</a></p>— Middle East Eye (@MiddleEastEye) <a href="https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/819982668385439748">13 January 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Robert]

Labour MP, shadow cabinet member and top Corbynista said back in November...



Mmm wonder what he thinks now?

I think there are going to be more resignations. The 2010 and 2015 Labour MP intake contained some high flying ambitious people who took pay cuts to become MPs. They wanted to be Cabinet Ministers and it is not happening while Corbyn and McDonnell are in charge, so they might as well take up better paid posts outside politics.

It is a pity because these two resignees are highly capable and a loss to Westminster. Now instead Labour will field a couple of less-skilled Trot MPs, or worse, lose to the Tories and UKIP! Either way, HM Opposition will be a bit weaker and the Tories a bit freer.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

A shadow minister has quit after Jeremy Corbyn said that that he will force his front-bench team to vote in favour of triggering Brexit.

Tulip Siddiq, the shadow early years minister, said that because the "vast majority" of her constituents voted to stay in the European Union she cannot back triggering Article 50.

Mr Corbyn is now facing the prospect of two other shadow ministers resigning after vowing to impose a three-line whip on Labour MPs.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...a-may-power-trigger-brexit/amp/?client=safari

 

[Robert]

Now two Labour whips say they will defy the whip! )

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Labour's Stoke Central's candidate has interesting views on Brexit - wonder how they'll go down in a city which recorded a70%% vote for Leave in the referendum.

Labour's candidate for the Stoke Central by-election claimed that party leader Jeremy Corbyn was an "IRA supporting friend of Hamas" and said Brexit is a "massive pile of s**t".

Councillor Gareth Snell made the comments on Twitter ahead of the election triggered by Tristram Hunt's decision to step down.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ndidate-branded-jeremy-corbyn-ira-supporting/

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] has been insulting Jeremy long before he actually got to work as the Labour Leader, a very biased individual He simply doesn't want to accept that a man for the people is capable on a political level and he rather have a Darth Vader because the country is better of just because Vader got his degree from Oxford

 

[s28]

Above link won't work because of her potty mouth

try this http://tinyurl.com/heo3vka


Having realised her error, Ms Powell then apologised to the group, saying: "I’m so sorry. WhatsApp is a terrible thing. I have learnt a terrible lesson. I’m so sorry. You can have the last laugh at me being a cow."

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Looks like the Tories have given up on Stoke Central.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_588108f5e4b0b8867de7372b

So it's a straight fight between Labour and UKIP. Surely a crackpot like Paul Nuttal can't become a MP, can he? Lol.

 

[s28]

"A senior Tory MP told HuffPost UK the party was not as well off as Labour “in pure resource terms”, so had to ration its cash."

Labour have huge popular movement/feet on the ground and incredible financial strength now all thanks to Corbyn.

Tories frit.

 

[Robert]

Wonder what JC will do about the 48 MPs who defied his three-line whip?

 

[s28]

Brexit is a sideshow. People delivered their verdict. Vast majority fed up of Hard Brexiteers and Hard Remainers

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John McDonnell is distinguishing between the Article 50 vote and the rest of the votes. That makes sense of his position and he's right.</p>— Philip Collins (@PCollinsTimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/827069741659484161">2 February 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Robert]

Seven thousand Labour members tear up their membership cards over last night's capitulation.

I expect most will join the Lib Dems within days.

 

[s28]

Good riddance. Joining the Tory enabling tuition fee traitors.

 

[Robert]

Every Labour seat which voted for Tory Brexit is up for grabs from the Lib Dems now.

Brindsworth and Catcliffe (Rotherham) ward goes from Labour to LD in a 50% swing.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] has been insulting Jeremy long before he actually got to work as the Labour Leader, a very biased individual He simply doesn't want to accept that a man for the people is capable on a political level and he rather have a Darth Vader because the country is better of just because Vader got his degree from Oxford

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - you have me quite wrong. I am the son of a plumber and grandson of a farm labourer. I would be happy if such a person appeared - we desperately need an effective Opposition again. Maybe Clive Lewis could do it, but The Guardian reckons that he and Dianne Abbott are going to rebel in the vote next week. They are both in Remain constituencies I believe. More strife for Labour.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - you have me quite wrong. I am the son of a plumber and grandson of a farm labourer. I would be happy if such a person appeared - we desperately need an effective Opposition again. Maybe Clive Lewis could do it, but The Guardian reckons that he and Dianne Abbott are going to rebel in the vote next week. They are both in Remain constituencies I believe. More strife for Labour.

Oh right sorry for misreading you

 

[shaz619]

Seven thousand Labour members tear up their membership cards over last night's capitulation.

I expect most will join the Lib Dems within days.

Will any of them be students ?

 

[James]

I can't see Corbyn retaining enough credibility for the next 3 years to take Labour into the 2020 GE. I think he will end up resigning later this year. Some battles can't be won.

 

[s28]

The optimism amongst many in the party about Ed's appointment seems laughable now, I am personally embarrassed by my prediction that he would do well. Public opinion of the Coalition has been so negative that any half-decent politician would have pwned Cameron and be on the road to a Labour win. Even with Ed, the polls are level

Your regular reminder of the danger of making predictions

 

[Robert]

Will any of them be students ?

I've met a couple of Lib Dem students. They understand the reality of the hard choice Clegg was forced to make in Coalition. It was either student fees (a Labour initiative, by the way) or see universities close their science and technology departments and become humanities and language labs. That would have meant fewer students becoming doctors and engineers in the UK. The Coalition could be accused of increasing inequality with this move, but the fact remains that more DE socio-economic students than ever before went to uni from 2010-15.

And the Lib Dems pushed through legislation to take more low-paid people out of income tax altogether. None of us pay income tax on the first £10K we earn because of them.

 

[James]

Strong rumours on Twitter today of another labour leadership challenge coming.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Strong rumours on Twitter today of another labour leadership challenge coming.

Over the EU?

For decades we've been waiting for the Tories to tear themselves apart over Europe yet Corbyn has achieved something monumental - compared to Labour the Tories are actually now united over the EU.

But worry not because Labour will soon be polling better than the Tories.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Labour will be beating Tories in the polls within one year, John McDonnell declares<a href="https://t.co/PsJgGcT89B">https://t.co/PsJgGcT89B</a> <a href="https://t.co/RrM3U4v7Vn">pic.twitter.com/RrM3U4v7Vn</a></p>— Mirror Politics (@MirrorPolitics) <a href="https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/828208670018248705">5 February 2017</a></blockquote>
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[s28]

I've met a couple of Lib Dem students. They understand the reality of the hard choice Clegg was forced to make in Coalition. It was either student fees (a Labour initiative, by the way) or see universities close their science and technology departments and become humanities and language labs. That would have meant fewer students becoming doctors and engineers in the UK. The Coalition could be accused of increasing inequality with this move, but the fact remains that more DE socio-economic students than ever before went to uni from 2010-15.

And the Lib Dems pushed through legislation to take more low-paid people out of income tax altogether. None of us pay income tax on the first £10K we earn because of them.

Untrue. Austerity was a choice. Tories typically supported their City friends over the poor/vulnerable student population. Disgusting that they bailed out greedy banksters who were the authors of their own (what should have been market determined) destruction. Students were the unfortunate victims and Clegg simply didn't have the guts to stand up to Cameron.

 

[Robert]

Untrue. Austerity was a choice. Tories typically supported their City friends over the poor/vulnerable student population. Disgusting that they bailed out greedy banksters who were the authors of their own (what should have been market determined) destruction. Students were the unfortunate victims and Clegg simply didn't have the guts to stand up to Cameron.

Let's tease out your complex equivalence a little....

1. Austerity had nothing to do with the parlous financial state the universities were in under Labour. Austerity came later.

2. Seriously, would you have bailed the universities out and let the banks fail? Without the bank bailout, which was Gordon Brown's idea copied across the West, we would have had another 1929. Ten million unemployed. Breakdown of law and order. Food riots. Fascism on the rise.

3. The banks are paying the Treasury back. Lloyds have already paid their debts.

4. Clegg stood up to Cameron plenty. Read about the Coalition from neutral historians.