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Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April [Post #1698]

Watched BBCQT on iPlayer. I honestly thought that the Brexiteers had the better of the debate. I like Sir Kier but he seemed to lack warmth. Salmond did well though.
 
Markhor said:
Now UKIP lose their one MP.

After the failure of Trumpcare yesterday - its a bad couple of days for the alt-right.
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UKIP should just disband. A pointless party with a D-Grade leader, who honestly should have retired from politics after his shameful series of lies and embarrassing loss when contesting a super-easy by-election.
 
:)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jeremy Corbyn reacts angrily to a question from <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV">@PaulBrandITV</a> about his leadership <a href="https://t.co/oxUZs7yWuj">https://t.co/oxUZs7yWuj</a> <a href="https://t.co/9VD4gsXsZc">pic.twitter.com/9VD4gsXsZc</a></p>— ITV News (@itvnews) <a href="https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/849312890477846529">4 April 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
March 14, 2017

COPING WITH THE BACKFIRE EFFECT

Jeremy Corbyn has been getting a lot of stick recently, much of it justified: he seems to be the Henry VI of our time – obsessed with his own piety to the neglect of day-to-day politics despite massive and obvious dangers. Nevertheless, he made a very good and important point yesterday (2’24” in) when he said that the economic debate should be about inequality.

The point here is that the left must shift the agenda onto inequality and capitalist stagnation and away from immigration and Brexit.

I say this because of Tim Harford’s essay in which he points out that facts just don’t matter in political debate.

One reason for this lies in the backfire effect. As Tim says, “repeating a false claim, even in the context of debunking that claim, can make it stick.”

This means that arguing against (say) the claim that immigrants take jobs is futile. Our arguments might be correct, but they simply bolster the belief that immigration is a problem. I fear the same thing happens when the left “calls out” the racism and misogyny of twats like Hopkins and Milo. Doing so merely increases their public profile.

Also, debating immigration is like a game of infinite whack-a-mole. When we knock down one argument – jobs (pdf), wages, public services, whatever – another jumps up. As Tim says, lies “summon to mind all sorts of other anxieties”. We’ll never defeat them.

In this context, the impartiality to which the BBC rather feebly aspires is impossible: an “impartial” debate about immigration serves the cause of lying racists. As Ed Glaeser and Cass Sunstein said, balanced news produces unbalanced views.

The answer to this is to do exactly what Mr Corbyn says - to change the subject. We should shift the agenda away from immigration towards inequality and stagnation. Doing so would have a two-fold benefit. It would raise the salience of inequality and capitalist failure and so – at the margin – help change voters’ priors from “migrants are to blame” to “bosses are to blame”*. This would mean the left’s opponents will be fighting on our ground, and so the backfire effect will work in our favour.

It would also change the dramatis personae. Rightist rentagobs have nothing much to say about issues such as inequality and stagnation, so changing the subject will silence them: the more we hear about Sam Bowles and less we hear about Farage, the better.

I suspect this point broadens. For example, my Twitter timeline has given me a very vivid image of what feminists think of Milo, but little idea of who is doing good scientific work on gender inequality. I think that’s a shame.

Such a shift has the tertiary virtue of having an evidence base – though I concede that few care about this. The stagnation of real incomes has more to do with austerity, the financial crisis, the decline of trades unions, financialization (pdf) and power than it has with globalization (pdf).

What I’d like to see the left do, therefore, is to do something which we don't do enough of (and I'm as guilty as anyone): we should pay less attention to the worst of the right and give more publicity to the best of the left.

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.../2017/03/coping-with-the-backfire-effect.html
 
Ken should really learn to shut up. This antiSemitism thing is not going away. He seems more interested in being personally right than the good of the Party.

Now Lord Levy - Labour's major donor - is threatening to leave the Party. Immediately Mr Corbyn announces a second investigation into what Ken said, led by the NEC. That makes it look like he has been pressurised into doing the right thing, which makes him look even weaker.
 
Israeli Government minister admits Antisemitism used to deflect and obstruct debate

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9DKeLLlaws8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">London Mayor Sadiq Khan tells LBC there is "no place" for Ken Livingstone in the Labour party.</p>— LBC Breaking (@lbcbreaking) <a href="https://twitter.com/lbcbreaking/status/849912140546920449">6 April 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
It must really hurt Sadiq that people take more note of his two predecessors than the charisma-free zone around him
 
I'm with Mayor Khan on this one. Mr Livingstone costs Labour more votes with each utterance. He seems not to know that when you are on a hole you stop digging.
 
New Statesman came out with a ludicrous edition this week, claiming Labour is dead and asking 'Who will speak for Liberal Britain'

These guys completely take their conceit apart. Worth a listen if you hate slugs and have an hour free.

<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/316080455&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
 
Some very insightful 'inside baseball' stuff from these guys

<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/314741467&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
 
Worth checking out their entire ouvre

Titles such as

"Reel Politik, Episode 12 - The Parliamentary Road to Salafism (ft. Kieran Morris)"

Reel Politik, Episode 8 - Rod Liddle's Liberal Elite Test (ft. Kieran Morris)

Reel Politik, Episode 6 - Enoch Had It Wrong: Odd Man Out (ft. Kieran Morris)

give a flavour for the content
 
French Corbyn doing well

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">France Rebels | interesting stuff from comrade <a href="https://twitter.com/ColeStangler">@colestangler</a> <a href="https://t.co/dE6oflMw7D">https://t.co/dE6oflMw7D</a></p>— Sarah Jaffe (@sarahljaffe) <a href="https://twitter.com/sarahljaffe/status/852262864987586560">12 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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Labour gain a council seat from UKIP in Haverhill North after the latter mess up their nominatio paper - there is no party called "UKIP". No other party put up a candidate.
 
Safe seat Afzal Khan will win easily. George Galloway will probably be second by a long way. Rest also-rans.
 
Conservative GAIN Coulby Newham (Middlesbrough) from Labour #corbynsurge
 
s28 said:
Safe seat Afzal Khan will win easily. George Galloway will probably be second by a long way. Rest also-rans.
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shaz619 said:
George is an imposter who should be tried for treason.
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Anything that keeps George in the public sphere is fine by me. Not that I agree with all of his views, I am totally opposite to many of his views actually, but his rhetoric is brilliant. The old Talksport clips where he takes on the intellectually stunted masses of England and Scotland are hilarious.
 
I agree that he is good value. I liked watching him stick it to the Senators that time.
 
The unthinkable could happen thanks to Corbyn and his devotees : a blue revival in the north east?


A Labour MP has blamed Jeremy Corbyn and “the far Left” for the party’s loss of a council by-election to the Tories in its north east heartland.

Tom Blenkinsop, MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, hit out after the Conservatives took the seat of Coulby Newham in Middlesbrough for the first time in nearly 18 years.
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http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58f090bee4b0bb9638e2fbc1
 
A few highlights of George in front of US Senate

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This is George more recently speaking at the Oxford Union

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WTTXh9NG6Dg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Gabbar Singh said:
The unthinkable could happen thanks to Corbyn and his devotees : a blue revival in the north east?
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It doesn't matter how many seats they lose. The Corbynistas are zealots who will carry on blaming everyone except Holy Jeremy. Perhaps they will change their minds when Labour are reduced to a rump in 2020. But I would not bet on it. They are more interested in purging the Blairites than forming a government.

By 2020 we will be down to 600 MPs and I foresee this sort of breakdown:

Tories 355
Labour 150
Lib Dems 40
SDP 50
Others 5
 
Robert said:
It doesn't matter how many seats they lose. The Corbynistas are zealots who will carry on blaming everyone except Holy Jeremy. Perhaps they will change their minds when Labour are reduced to a rump in 2020. But I would not bet on it. They are more interested in purging the Blairites than forming a government.

By 2020 we will be down to 600 MPs and I foresee this sort of breakdown:

Tories 355
Labour 150
Lib Dems 40
SDP 50
Others 5
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Will there be Scottish seats in 2020?
 
Junaids said:
Will there be Scottish seats in 2020?
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Interesting question. There may not be the will among the Scots to quit the Union, if it appears that Brexit could be an economic success. Their vote to quit will be predicated on whether they can join the EU, and Spain might veto them because it a splitter nation joining the EU could encourage the Basques to split from Spain.
 
Robert said:
Interesting question. There may not be the will among the Scots to quit the Union, if it appears that Brexit could be an economic success. Their vote to quit will be predicated on whether they can join the EU, and Spain might veto them because it a splitter nation joining the EU could encourage the Basques to split from Spain.
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By 2020 it will be quite clear that all the reasons that Brexiteers voted for 'out' (immigration, paying into the EU, European Court, not needing to follow EU rules in many areas etc) are not going to work out as they were told.

* EU immigration numbers will not be cut - not if the NHS, Nursing homes and home care providers are going to keep on functioning, not if the restaurants and holiday venues are going to keep on satisfying their customers, not if the East Anglian farmers are going to have their summer crops picked and sent to supermarkets.

* There will need to be a 'Transition period' after 2019, lasting perhaps years, during which we will have to keep on paying into the EU and be subject to the European Court.

* If Britain wishes to keep on selling goods and services into the EU, then these goods and services will have to comply with EU rules.

Basically, the only thing that will change is the UK government not sitting at the decision making table of the EU. That and the fact that prices will go up (due to £ going down, plus reduced trade due to tariffs and additional red tape at ports trading with the EU).

Britain might be in the middle of a great big recession by then - all due to Brexiteers, with the Tories getting the blame for the whole mess.

A week is a long time in politics. By 2020 the Tories may have nowhere to hide.

Corbyn just has to sit tight, survive the back stabbing from the Blairites, and wait for the realities of the ramifications of Brexit to become clearer to the Brexiteers, and then see the Tories disintegrate as a result and hand the election on a plate to the Corbynistas.
 
Yossarian said:
By 2020 it will be quite clear that all the reasons that Brexiteers voted for 'out' (immigration, paying into the EU, European Court, not needing to follow EU rules in many areas etc) are not going to work out as they were told.

* EU immigration numbers will not be cut - not if the NHS, Nursing homes and home care providers are going to keep on functioning, not if the restaurants and holiday venues are going to keep on satisfying their customers, not if the East Anglian farmers are going to have their summer crops picked and sent to supermarkets.

* There will need to be a 'Transition period' after 2019, lasting perhaps years, during which we will have to keep on paying into the EU and be subject to the European Court.

* If Britain wishes to keep on selling goods and services into the EU, then these goods and services will have to comply with EU rules.

Basically, the only thing that will change is the UK government not sitting at the decision making table of the EU. That and the fact that prices will go up (due to £ going down, plus reduced trade due to tariffs and additional red tape at ports trading with the EU).

Britain might be in the middle of a great big recession by then - all due to Brexiteers, with the Tories getting the blame for the whole mess.

A week is a long time in politics. By 2020 the Tories may have nowhere to hide.

Corbyn just has to sit tight, survive the back stabbing from the Blairites, and wait for the realities of the ramifications of Brexit to become clearer to the Brexiteers, and then see the Tories disintegrate as a result and hand the election on a plate to the Corbynistas.
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I suspect that, like in the old days, shortages of nurses will be fixed by importing them from Jamaica and Trinidad and GPs will once again be recruited from the subcontinent.

And 90% of Brexiteers would prefer that to sourcing them from Portugal or Poland.

Much more interesting is the rise of Melenchon - who is far to the left of Corbyn - to be in contention to reach the second round of the French Presidential Election next Sunday.

The current rogues gallery is:

Macron (centrist who married his paedophile teacher) 22%

Le Pen (bargain basement nationalist) 22%

Melenchon (ultra-far left Chavez and Castro fan) 20%

Fillon (conservative with his fingers in the till) 18%

Only the top two reach the final round.

In the unlikely event that Melenchon and Le Pen are the last two standing, the EU dies next Sunday.
 
Yossarian said:
Corbyn just has to sit tight, survive the back stabbing from the Blairites, and wait for the realities of the ramifications of Brexit to become clearer to the Brexiteers, and then see the Tories disintegrate as a result and hand the election on a plate to the Corbynistas.
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If he had tried stop Brexit you might have a point. But you are forgetting that Corbyn enabled Brexit with his three-line whip. The Remain vote will not forgive that.

Labour would have to get Scotland back to have any chance in a GE but have been replaced by the SNP.

Now the Lib Dems are winning with 30% swings everywhere and are well placed to take the centre vote. By 5 May they will have another hundred council seats while Labour will have lost fifty more.
 
Lib Dems who poll at 7% despite the media trying their best to confect them as the 'only choice for the 48%'

Some people really are adept at fooling themselves
 
Yossarian said:
By 2020 it will be quite clear that all the reasons that Brexiteers voted for 'out' (immigration, paying into the EU, European Court, not needing to follow EU rules in many areas etc) are not going to work out as they were told.

* EU immigration numbers will not be cut - not if the NHS, Nursing homes and home care providers are going to keep on functioning, not if the restaurants and holiday venues are going to keep on satisfying their customers, not if the East Anglian farmers are going to have their summer crops picked and sent to supermarkets.

* There will need to be a 'Transition period' after 2019, lasting perhaps years, during which we will have to keep on paying into the EU and be subject to the European Court.

* If Britain wishes to keep on selling goods and services into the EU, then these goods and services will have to comply with EU rules.

Basically, the only thing that will change is the UK government not sitting at the decision making table of the EU. That and the fact that prices will go up (due to £ going down, plus reduced trade due to tariffs and additional red tape at ports trading with the EU).

Britain might be in the middle of a great big recession by then - all due to Brexiteers, with the Tories getting the blame for the whole mess.

A week is a long time in politics. By 2020 the Tories may have nowhere to hide.

Corbyn just has to sit tight, survive the back stabbing from the Blairites, and wait for the realities of the ramifications of Brexit to become clearer to the Brexiteers, and then see the Tories disintegrate as a result and hand the election on a plate to the Corbynistas.
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Great analysis. IT's funny that those who claim to be experts in politics always forget the biggest truism that a week is a long time in politics and their forecasts count for nothing.

Blairites are slowly but surely being expunged from the Party. Most recently MPs Jamie Reed and Tristram Hunt. At lower level the real Left is winning at procedural committee and CLP levels.
 
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s28 said:
Lib Dems who poll at 7% despite the media trying their best to confect them as the 'only choice for the 48%'

Some people really are adept at fooling themselves
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It's 11% not 7%. The LDs are slowly creating a critical mass with all their council seat wins and Richmond. I expect them to run Labour close in Gorton. The Labour vote there is soft, weakened by Brexit and Galloway. In any event many people voted for Sir Gerald, not Labour because of all his community work.

The LD's problem in the same as Labour's - the wrong leader. Cheeky chappy Tim is making a lot of noise but not engaging the broader electorate. They probably should have gone for Norman Lamb, who has a bit more gravitas. But with just eight MPs and Clegg's political capital spent they had little choice. I think Tim is a John the Baptist figure, crying in the wilderness in preparation for a more capable leader to come.
 
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Robert said:
It's 11% not 7%. The LDs are slowly creating a critical mass with all their council seat wins and Richmond. I expect them to run Labour close in Gorton. The Labour vote there is soft, weakened by Brexit and Galloway. In any event many people voted for Sir Gerald, not Labour because of all his community work.

The LD's problem in the same as Labour's - the wrong leader. Cheeky chappy Tim is making a lot of noise but not engaging the broader electorate. They probably should have gone for Norman Lamb, who has a bit more gravitas. But with just eight MPs and Clegg's political capital spent they had little choice. I think Tim is a John the Baptist figure, crying in the wilderness in preparation for a more capable leader to come.
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Cheeky Chappy Tim has a popularity ceiling with certain sections of potential LD voters due to his strong Christian beliefs resulting in mild homophobia and thus a mixed record on LGBT rights.
 
s28 said:
Lib Dems who poll at 7% despite the media trying their best to confect them as the 'only choice for the 48%'

Some people really are adept at fooling themselves
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Robert said:
It's 11% not 7%. The LDs are slowly creating a critical mass with all their council seat wins and Richmond. I expect them to run Labour close in Gorton. The Labour vote there is soft, weakened by Brexit and Galloway. In any event many people voted for Sir Gerald, not Labour because of all his community work.

The LD's problem in the same as Labour's - the wrong leader. Cheeky chappy Tim is making a lot of noise but not engaging the broader electorate. They probably should have gone for Norman Lamb, who has a bit more gravitas. But with just eight MPs and Clegg's political capital spent they had little choice. I think Tim is a John the Baptist figure, crying in the wilderness in preparation for a more capable leader to come.
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James said:
Cheeky Chappy Tim has a popularity ceiling with certain sections of potential LD voters due to his strong Christian beliefs resulting in mild homophobia and thus a mixed record on LGBT rights.
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What do you guys make of Siôn Simon and James Burn ?
 
Lib Dems 7%

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="de" dir="ltr">Westminster voting intention:<br><br>CON: 41%<br>LAB: 28%<br>UKIP: 12%<br>LDEM: 7%<br>GRN: 6%<br><br>(via GfK / 01 - 15 Mar)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/846459654150537216">27 March 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
James said:
Cheeky Chappy Tim has a popularity ceiling with certain sections of potential LD voters due to his strong Christian beliefs resulting in mild homophobia and thus a mixed record on LGBT rights.
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Hmm, which is in itself profoundly illiberal, especially considering the key LD role in getting equal marriage on the statutes.
 
Junaids said:
I suspect that, like in the old days, shortages of nurses will be fixed by importing them from Jamaica and Trinidad and GPs will once again be recruited from the subcontinent.
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It's not the '50 and '60 any more where Jamaicans and Trinidadian nurses were desperate to come and work in Britain (leaving their husbands and children behind) so they could earn money to create a better life for their families back home. They have the option of going to the USA for that now, which also needs nurses, pays better and is much closer to home.

And 90% of Brexiteers would prefer that to sourcing them from Portugal or Poland.
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The swathes of anti-immigration Brexit voters in the Tory shires are much more likely to associate an increase in brown/black faces, in their communities and hospitals, with immigration as opposed to white Portuguese or white Polish faces.

Besides, none of that addresses the main gist of my post
Basically, the only thing that will change is the UK government not sitting at the decision making table of the EU. That and the fact that prices will go up (due to £ going down, plus reduced trade due to tariffs and additional red tape at ports trading with the EU).

Britain might be in the middle of a great big recession by then - all due to Brexiteers, with the Tories getting the blame for the whole mess.
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Robert said:
Hmm, which is in itself profoundly illiberal, especially considering the key LD role in getting equal marriage on the statutes.
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Yes, I was very surprised. Minus respect points for him when I found out about it. Me personally, as someone who is more right-leaning these days, I still think that equal LGBT rights are absolutely critical to having a civilised society - just look around the world at what happens when nations do not.

Conservatives will rinse the local elections in my opinion. British politics is in a poor state at the moment.
 
More polls showing Lib Dems at 7%

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Westminster voting intention:<br><br>CON: 38% (-3)<br>LAB: 29% (+1)<br>UKIP: 14% (+1)<br>LDEM: 7% (-1)<br>GRN: 5% (+2)<br><br>(via Opinium / 11 - 13 Apr)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/853251597702504448">15 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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James said:
Yes, I was very surprised. Minus respect points for him when I found out about it. Me personally, as someone who is more right-leaning these days, I still think that equal LGBT rights are absolutely critical to having a civilised society - just look around the world at what happens when nations do not.

Conservatives will rinse the local elections in my opinion. British politics is in a poor state at the moment.
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It's possible to be a social liberal and fiscal conservative. I identify as a 'radical centrist'.

I reckon LD will gain about a hundred council seats. Labour will lose more. Tories might pick some up. But there will be no snap GE as the Tories could lose 25 marginals to the LDs and with it their majority. Unless they slaughter Labour of course.....
 
And with that, the Corbyn Countdown has begun - now 52 days left as Labour leader.
 
People (mainly the Establishment elites and the sheeple who parrot their talking points) wrote off Melenchon (the French Corbyn) ...

Screenshot 2017-04-18 at 12.55.50 PM.jpg
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">14% of people believe Corbyn would make the best PM. That's lower than the number who believe in Telepathy, Ghosts, Angels and Aliens.</p>— (((Dan Hodges))) (@DPJHodges) <a href="https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/853929380757872640">17 April 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Anyway moving on, who will be the next permanent Labour leader after June? The favourites with the bookies are:

Keir Starmer, Clive Lewis, and Dan Jarvis.

Tom Watson is an outside bet (at 33/1) but I think he's a dark horse for this race. Watson is a canny operator and will be there or there abouts come the elections for the next labour leader.
 
There won't be a contest because Corbyn isn't standing down.

Members gave him two mandates so he could reshape Party for 2020
 
<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Forget what you've heard, it's the vision that matters. For a Better Britain, or a Bitter Brexit. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GeneralElection?src=hash">#GeneralElection</a> <a href="https://t.co/FThDIOV0BV">pic.twitter.com/FThDIOV0BV</a></p>— #EL4C (@EL4JC) <a href="https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/854328883356815363">18 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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.<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LORF9p4Owtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Recently I spoke to an old friend, a staunch Tory, who said that a lot of Labour MPs see no hope for their Party and are getting out if politics.

So far, thirteen sitting Labour MPs are quitting at the GE.
 
Robert said:
Recently I spoke to an old friend, a staunch Tory, who said that a lot of Labour MPs see no hope for their Party and are getting out if politics.

So far, thirteen sitting Labour MPs are quitting at the GE.
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which is the lowest ever at a GE, at the 2015GE 37 Labour MPs stood down and in 2010 the number was 100.
 
irfan said:
which is the lowest ever at a GE, at the 2015GE 37 Labour MPs stood down and in 2010 the number was 100.
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Hmm interesting. To be fair there were more Labour MPs to stand down in 2010 and 2015.
 
s28 said:
There won't be a contest because Corbyn isn't standing down.

Members gave him two mandates so he could reshape Party for 2020
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[MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] do you think Corbyn should stay on as leader even if Labour lose seats at the general election?

I can understand him staying on if Labour gain some seats, even if it's not enough to win power but surely even the most ardent Corbyn supporters don't think he should carry on if Labour are routed at the polls in June.
 
He has a double mandate until 2020/2022
He has transformed Party in terms of membership and finances
He stays regardless. If anyone should go after June 8th it's the Red Tories.
 
http://labourlist.org/2017/03/corbyn-is-members-second-favourite-leader-in-party-history-poll-finds/


Corbyn is members’ second favourite leader in party history, poll finds

Jeremy Corbyn has come in as Labour members’ second favourite leader of the party in its history, according to polling.

The poll asked members to choose up to three of Labour’s leaders as their favourite. Clement Attlee came in top with 45 per cent of the vote but only 5 per cent behind him was the party’s current leader on 40 per cent. John Smith was third with 31 and Harold Wilson fourth on 28 per cent.

Tony Blair came in at number six with 21 per cent and Ed Miliband was at number 10 with 11 per cent.

The poll, conducted by YouGov, also asked members which type of voters they think Labour should “mainly target in future general election campaigns”. Some 24 per cent said Conservative and UKIP voters and 68 per cent said people who for other parties and those who do not normally vote .
 
Gabbar Singh said:
[MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] do you think Corbyn should stay on as leader even if Labour lose seats at the general election?

I can understand him staying on if Labour gain some seats, even if it's not enough to win power but surely even the most ardent Corbyn supporters don't think he should carry on if Labour are routed at the polls in June.
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I would imagine that Labour will lose fifty seats and there will be another leadership challenge. But the fan club listen to emotional arguments and not reason, so Corbyn might survive. That'll be Tory government forever then. But at least the Blairities will leave and that's more important than gaining power, after all.
 
Blimey. Big gains for the Tories so far, threatened Lib Dem revival patchy, UKIP collapsing and Labour losing former strongholds.

Cornwall results returning today.
 
Robert said:
Blimey. Big gains for the Tories so far, threatened Lib Dem revival patchy, UKIP collapsing and Labour losing former strongholds.

Cornwall results returning today.
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It's a local election with a very low turnout due to a GE in a few weeks time. Low turnouts always favour the Tories - it's a historical fact.
 
Yossarian said:
It's a local election with a very low turnout due to a GE in a few weeks time. Low turnouts always favour the Tories - it's a historical fact.
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Firstly, we will have a better picture of what has happened by about 4 pm today when all results are in.

Secondly, that's old hat, dating back to a time when many Labour voters could not afford cars - nearly everyone has a car now.
 
Robert said:
Firstly, we will have a better picture of what has happened by about 4 pm today when all results are in.

Secondly, that's old hat, dating back to a time when many Labour voters could not afford cars - nearly everyone has a car now.
Click to expand...
It's not just about cars. For example, in the area where I live, all the retired and elderly dress up in their Sunday best and then diligently make their way to the polling stations as if going to a wedding or social function. The vast majority of them vote Tory and they never miss a vote. When there's a low turnout, these key groups make a dsiproportionate difference to the overall result.
 
Well, elders are far more likely to vote than youngsters, and most people drift right as they get older.
 
Definitely a bad day for Labour, from memory usually the opposition party does well in these sorts of elections.

UKIP meanwhile - LOL. Whether Left, Liberal, Right or Centre, I think we can all agree that - the sooner these jokers deregister the better.
 
UKIP is finished by the looks of it. And we'll find out next month if the same fate awaits Corbyn and his gang.
 
UKIP is just Tory now.

General Election a straight fight between right wing&fascists Tories

vs

Left/Progressive Labour

There is no Lib Dem 'fightback' the only alternative to Conservatives/UKIP is Labour

Are you going to get on board and vote Labour Robert or just enable the Tory/Fascists?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You don’t get to call yourself “antifascist” if you abstain when a real live fascist is on the ballot.</p>— David Frum (@davidfrum) <a href="https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/859728239568277504">3 May 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Conservative councillor elected in the east of Glasgow. Shettleston - the only place where life expectancy is falling in the UK.

Labour lose control of Glasgow City Council for the first time in 40 years.
 
Big news, Conservatives win the West Midlands mayoral election.
 
Markhor said:
Big news, Conservatives win the West Midlands mayoral election.
Click to expand...

Green candidate James Burn was among those who launched Birmingham’s Living Wage campaign in 2009 so he got my vote :mv Andy Street's lead was narrow, he got over the line thanks to the second preference vote and all the mongs in Coventry, Solihul, Sandwell, Dudley, Walsall and Wolverhampton :broad
 
Sad times in British politics when an utterly mediocre Tory Party is viewed by the electorate as the only semi-serious option for national leadership.
 
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