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Mohammad Rizwan : A bubble that will burst against good bowling and teams in the ICC T20 World Cup

Some fans from specific city hate Shaheen because he bowled a bouncer. With this mentality it’s hard to support Pakistan.
 
iniqbal223 said:
Go back to the post and read it loud
RIZWAN SO FAR PLAYED AGAINST EITHER ZIMBABWE OR C TEAMS

And any performance against weak teams is not an indicator that Rizwan is a good batsman; he struggled badly against only one full strength bowling attack he faced in T20s against Starc, Cummins

Sarfaraz did not have to face C teams in his career;


I would urge you to read the post multiple times if you can not understand it
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Rizwan has 2 ODI hundreds on his comeback series against Australia. He looked the best batsman overseas against England, Aus and NZ. Surely you have been sleeping all these series or may be Sarfraz fanship has made you blind of facts. Reality is Sarfraz support is no secret from certain group of people for known reasons. Sarfraz doesn't deserve to be in the squad.
 
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How about the rest of the batsmen contribute for a change and and support Babar and Rizwan. Even in the last game the platform set was decent enough, the problem is the batsmen who come after barely do anything , if we had a bairstow or butler to come in after people would be treating rizwan very differently.
 
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silentkiller187 said:
How about the rest of the batsmen contribute for a change and and support Babar and Rizwan. Even in the last game the platform set was decent enough, the problem is the batsmen who come after barely do anything , if we had a bairstow or butler to come in after people would be treating rizwan very differently.
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Is Mo Rizwan good enough to open the batting for England?
 
Rana said:
Is Mo Rizwan good enough to open the batting for England?
Click to expand...

But he's not playing for the world champion Eng side....he's playing for a Pakistani team who would struggle to beat Zimbawe without him and Babar
 
“Sarfraz did not get to play minnows or C and D teams”

Sarfraz highest score in T20: 89 against Scotland
 
Rana said:
Is Mo Rizwan good enough to open the batting for England?
Click to expand...

Will fakhar get into the england team?
Will sharjeel get into the england team?
Will hafeez get into the england team?
Will Harris rauf get into the england team?
Will Imad Wasim get into the england team?

Etc etc etc

Your argument is beyond stupid.
 
Ashmal said:
But he's not playing for the world champion Eng side....he's playing for a Pakistani team who would struggle to beat Zimbawe without him and Babar
Click to expand...

So Rizwan is basically a goat in Poor standards?
 
MRSN said:
Rizwan has 2 ODI hundreds on his comeback series against Australia. He looked the best batsman overseas against England, Aus and NZ. Surely you have been sleeping all these series or may be Sarfraz fanship has made you blind of facts. Reality is Sarfraz support is no secret from certain group of people for known reasons. Sarfraz doesn't deserve to be in the squad.
Click to expand...

Don’t think the poor guy is arguing about his Test match credentials. Stop shifting goalposts

Rizwan averages 28 in ODIs
 
Rana said:
Is Mo Rizwan good enough to open the batting for England?
Click to expand...

No he isn't good enough to open for england, but neither are 99% of international openers from other countries, that's how good England's batting depths are.

is he good enough to open the batting for pakistan, YES.

Do we have any alternatives at the moment close to his level as a batsmen based on current form. NO

Do we have a wicket keeper close to his level at the moment . NO

Sorry to say but some pakistan fans seem to be the thickest people in the world i don't understand their thought process. Rizwan has been lauded for for the past year or so by pundits and players across the board, but our armchair fans will tell you they know best.

He only scores against xyz , if thats the logic and he isnt that great then why aren't our other players filling their boots?
 
Raja Ishtiaq said:
Will fakhar get into the england team?
Will sharjeel get into the england team?
Will hafeez get into the england team?
Will Harris rauf get into the england team?
Will Imad Wasim get into the england team?

Etc etc etc

Your argument is beyond stupid.
Click to expand...

Even Babar won’t get in England team. They have much better alternative in Root and he can’t make it to T20
 
SangasCoverDrive said:
Even Babar won’t get in England team. They have much better alternative in Root and he can’t make it to T20
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Root is not better than Babar in T20s or ODIs. If Tom Bainton can open for England then so can Rizwan. Rizwan would be more prolific with lots of balasters in the England team taking care of run rate.
 
Rizwan is the best wicketkeeper batsman Pakistan has ever produced.

He is so good that I would want him to give up his gloves for young talented Rohail Nazir and just play as a batsman in all formats.
 
silentkiller187 said:
imam averages 49 in odi , even a blindman would pick rizwan over imam to open currently.
Click to expand...

No a blind man wouldn’t pick Rizwan over Imam in ODIs as an opener. There is nothing to suggest why Rizwan should open instead of Imam in ODIs.
 
PakPremi said:
Root is not better than Babar in T20s or ODIs. If Tom Bainton can open for England then so can Rizwan. Rizwan would be more prolific with lots of balasters in the England team taking care of run rate.
Click to expand...

Well at least you are a brave Rizwan fan who thinks he can open for England because Tom Banton can open for England.


Rizwan fans, this is you.
 
Yet to get an answer for his replacement. So I conclude there is no replacement for him then we should close this thread as it has no use.
 
Raja Ishtiaq said:
Will fakhar get into the england team?
Will sharjeel get into the england team?
Will hafeez get into the england team?
Will Harris rauf get into the england team?
Will Imad Wasim get into the england team?

Etc etc etc

Your argument is beyond stupid.
Click to expand...

Fakhar Zaman if Roy/Bairstow are injured is something the management will think about before picking Rizwan.

Same argument applies for Sharjeel

same argument applies for Hafeez if Morgan/Stokes are injured in the middle order.

Rauf will not make it into the English side but he has a better shout than Tom Curran at least
 
PakEngFan said:
Yet to get an answer for his replacement. So I conclude there is no replacement for him then we should close this thread as it has no use.
Click to expand...

No one is asking for him to be replaced. He can play as a number 5-6 wk. Or can he?
 
Rana said:
Fakhar Zaman if Roy/Bairstow are injured is something the management will think about before picking Rizwan.

Same argument applies for Sharjeel

same argument applies for Hafeez if Morgan/Stokes are injured in the middle order.

Rauf will not make it into the English side but he has a better shout than Tom Curran at least
Click to expand...

England would never in their right mind even think about selecting Sharjeel over a U19 reserve opener who is in shape let alone over Rizwan. England also have a standard when it comes to batting technique, a standard which Fakhar does not fill. Also the myth that Fakhar is a destructive opener is just silly. We have seen over the last 6 months, he plays his best cricket after settling in and playing 20-25 balls. He is not a Roy or Bairstow type who can smash from ball one.

Your hate for Rizwan is just laughable
 
Rana said:
In my honest and humble view, it should be Fakhar Zaman and Sharjeel Khan.
Click to expand...

Sharjeel averages 22 which is half of Rizwan while Fakhar opened for nearly 40 odd games averaging 20 and he shouldn’t be in the team but due to the lack of options he’s in the team. So at the moment there are no contenders.
 
Abdurmirr said:
England would never in their right mind even think about selecting Sharjeel over a U19 reserve opener who is in shape let alone over Rizwan. England also have a standard when it comes to batting technique, a standard which Fakhar does not fill. Also the myth that Fakhar is a destructive opener is just silly. We have seen over the last 6 months, he plays his best cricket after settling in and playing 20-25 balls. He is not a Roy or Bairstow type who can smash from ball one.

Your hate for Rizwan is just laughable
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‘A standard when it comes to technique’

So Eoin Morgan is on Par with Brian Lara with his technique?
 
Sharjeel average 22
Fakhar average 21
Rizwan average 43

Gues who they Pakistani fans want to remove?
 
Rana said:
‘A standard when it comes to technique’

So Eoin Morgan is on Par with Brian Lara with his technique?
Click to expand...

Morgan has shown the ability to play quality innings when the ball is swinging and when the ball is spinning. When a batsmen has that ability than their technique is up to a standard

Fakhar is a terrible batsmen of both swing and spin, only on flat simple wickets will you ever see him score. That's the difference between the two

And why are we bringing Lara into this?
 
Abdurmirr said:
Morgan has shown the ability to play quality innings when the ball is swinging and when the ball is spinning. When a batsmen has that ability than their technique is up to a standard

Fakhar is a terrible batsmen of both swing and spin, only on flat simple wickets will you ever see him score. That's the difference between the two

And why are we bringing Lara into this?
Click to expand...

I think you will make up stuff just to prove a point here.
 
PakEngFan said:
Sharjeel average 22
Fakhar average 21
Rizwan average 43

Gues who they Pakistani fans want to remove?
Click to expand...

Share strike rates also please. Also six hitting ability needs to be taken into consideration.

Pakistan had ZERO sixes in the first 10-12 overs against England at Trent Bridge. How many did England score in their power play?
 
Rana said:
Share strike rates also please. Also six hitting ability needs to be taken into consideration.

Pakistan had ZERO sixes in the first 10-12 overs against England at Trent Bridge. How many did England score in their power play?
Click to expand...

Yet Pakistan reached their highest ever total, job was done by the openers who set a solid base.

And strike rates are only used when batsmen don't score runs, how many times has sharjeel lasted the whole 6 overs, in domestic and international t20.
 
Genuinely baffles me how people think that Rizwan's performances as an opener warrant questions. By using the logic that some of you guys are using, nobody is worthy enough to play for Pakistan. We might as well give up playing cricket since nobody seems to perform to your standards
 
Rana said:
Share strike rates also please. Also six hitting ability needs to be taken into consideration.

Pakistan had ZERO sixes in the first 10-12 overs against England at Trent Bridge. How many did England score in their power play?
Click to expand...

How much did Fakhar and Sharjeel score in PSL while opening, didn't Rizwan outperform them even there.
 
Rana said:
I think you will make up stuff just to prove a point here.
Click to expand...

2017 champions trophy, Morgan scored 80 odd on a cloudy Birmingham pitch with England 3-35 against an Australian line up of Hazzlewood, Starc and Cummins. Morgan also scored 140 odd against India in India chasing 350+ with the pitch supportive for spin.

He has shown to have a good enough technique to survive in limited overs cricket when conditions get tricky. Fakhar has never done this, in-fact he has been the opposite.
 
Rana said:
Share strike rates also please. Also six hitting ability needs to be taken into consideration.

Pakistan had ZERO sixes in the first 10-12 overs against England at Trent Bridge. How many did England score in their power play?
Click to expand...

For the 6 hitting ability sharjeel strike rate is 133 while rizwan is 129 and fakhar is around 138. I am talking about overall strike rate. If I am not wrong rizwan strike rate is around 140 since his comeback. Why still the hate when his strike rate is better then them too.
 
Rana said:
Fakhar Zaman if Roy/Bairstow are injured is something the management will think about before picking Rizwan.

Same argument applies for Sharjeel

same argument applies for Hafeez if Morgan/Stokes are injured in the middle order.

Rauf will not make it into the English side but he has a better shout than Tom Curran at least
Click to expand...

England wont be picking Fakhar and Sharjeel as openers. Lol at Hafeez. England have so many better options.

None of these guys are ahead of Rizwan
 
Rizwan will burst a few bubbles before his own bubble bursts.
 
PakEngFan said:
For the 6 hitting ability sharjeel strike rate is 133 while rizwan is 129 and fakhar is around 138. I am talking about overall strike rate. If I am not wrong rizwan strike rate is around 140 since his comeback. Why still the hate when his strike rate is better then them too.
Click to expand...

Because he cant hit blind tallay. I think this is the issue here :))
 
Raja Ishtiaq said:
Because he cant hit blind tallay. I think this is the issue here :))
Click to expand...

I don’t understand Pakistani fans they hate on their performing players while getting excited over failures. Hence why players like Hager’s and Malik played for 20 odd years.
 
Rizwan is a terrible batsmen who is on a purple patch right now. He will be exposed in World Twenty20. After that his career as an opener will be in question. Sarfraz over this hack any day.
 
Shazzam said:
Rizwan is a terrible batsmen who is on a purple patch right now. He will be exposed in World Twenty20. After that his career as an opener will be in question. Sarfraz over this hack any day.
Click to expand...

Must be hard sleeping at night knowing rizwan is preferred over sarfraz
 
I like Rizwan not just for his batting but his overall attitude. I think he brings a great amount of positive energy into the team, unlike Sarfaraz. Also, he is an excellent keeper. Pakistan is lucky to have a player like Rizwan in their squad.

While I agree that Rizwan has just started his T20 career and has done well in the opportunities he got so far, I think the OP is suggesting that he is by no means a bonafide world class player in T20 format yet, which is a fair assessment.

However, I have faith in Rizwan that with more challenges coming his way (T20 WC) he will continue to do well for Pakistan and silence all the critics. For now, he is a sure starter in the playing XI, along with Babar, Shaheen and Hassan Ali.
 
Shazzam said:
Rizwan is a terrible batsmen who is on a purple patch right now. He will be exposed in World Twenty20. After that his career as an opener will be in question. Sarfraz over this hack any day.
Click to expand...

im trying to work out if you are being genuine or you are trolling, how can people come up with such garbage with a straight face. :))
 
[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] Rizwan is not a bat any of us would have expected to do well in T20’s padded stats or not, but name a better partner for Babar ?

If anything Riswan has proven his mental strength at this level and done well against opposition put before him for the most part. Pakistan doesn’t have enough dynamic T20 openers who are consistent.
 
Hitman said:
I'm an Indian and I can only laugh at those who are speaking against Rizwan :))

You guys deserve players like Sarfaraz instead.
Click to expand...

Reading this thread reminds me of a time a couple of years ago when a few Indian fans were against the idea of Rishabh Pant as the first-choice LOI WK, ahead of an aging Dhoni, when the choice was ridiculously clear to any neutral fan.

People need to understand that time is not static. You can't play players you like for all of eternity. At some point, they will start showing signs of age, and someone will rightly replace them. It's only natural.

Pakistan is incredibly lucky to find a WK-Bat in Rizwan who is not just tidy behind the stumps but has the guts to take the fight to the opposition when batting. Definitely should be sticking with him, even if his form wanes for a bit, as is typically inevitable.

Also, not sure what you mean by the last line. Sarfraz was probably our best Keeper-Batsman in the last decade and a half. Should've remained as the opener or come in at 4/5 (where he averaged 43 both in ODIs & T20Is, and 47+ in Tests).
 
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shaz619 said:
[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] Rizwan is not a bat any of us would have expected to do well in T20’s padded stats or not, but name a better partner for Babar ?

If anything Riswan has proven his mental strength at this level and done well against opposition put before him for the most part. Pakistan doesn’t have enough dynamic T20 openers who are consistent.
Click to expand...

I think him and Babar are great partners for each other in the middle going forward, just like Rizwan would most likely by my 4/5 in ODIs.

The OPs view is valid but different to mines. I am not asking for Riz to be removed from the team so Sarfaraz or next manz come into the side. Just let two out and out T20 openers do the business at the top and let Babar and Rizwan control the game in the middle. You will have to move to this strategy very soon once Hafeez and Malik are gone for good (in the next 6 months), so why waste time doing it now?
 
Raja Ishtiaq said:
Dont want to bring region into this but Karachites have been a thorn in Pakistan cricket forever. Whether that is in the form of media personnel like Sikander Bakht, players like Sarfaraz or fans like the OP

Their support and love for Karachi is greater than their support of Pakistan.

Inshallah Pakistan will manage to remove this thorn once and for good.
Click to expand...

The typical "I don't want to be racist/misogynist/elitist but ..." trope. I'm not sure how you thought that was going to help veil the blatant regional generalization in the very next line.

You do realize that a minority, however vocal, does not speak on behalf of the general populace. Anyone with a semblance of sensibility/nuance would be able to differentiate that. Grow up, mate.
 
If he bats in the middle, people will say he is too slow for it. People are forgetting that even in T20 there are 120 balls, you cant hack all of them.
 
SangasCoverDrive said:
If he bats in the middle, people will say he is too slow for it. People are forgetting that even in T20 there are 120 balls, you cant hack all of them.
Click to expand...

So he is clearly the issue? Creating all the imbalance in the side?
 
Rana said:
So he is clearly the issue? Creating all the imbalance in the side?
Click to expand...

What imbalance? He is the best batsmen in the team and a better wicket keeper. Its like saying Kohlli creates imbalance in Indian team cause he doesn't score at 200 more often than not.
 
SangasCoverDrive said:
What imbalance? He is the best batsmen in the team and a better wicket keeper. Its like saying Kohlli creates imbalance in Indian team cause he doesn't score at 200 more often than not.
Click to expand...

Then why are you even suggesting that people would have an issue with him batting slowly in the middle? He doesn’t bat light speed as an opener
 
SangasCoverDrive said:
Because he is not a hack. He doesn't need to smash every ball
Click to expand...

Jason Roy isn’t a hack either. But the guy wants to make every ball count. It’s about having that killer intent as an opener. Not saying that Rizwan lacks it, however we can’t be depending on him to wait for a ball that is in his own range considering he only has a couple of six hitting strokes and zero ability to lift the ball outside of those 1 or 2 areas where he is strong at.
 
Rana said:
Jason Roy isn’t a hack either. But the guy wants to make every ball count. It’s about having that killer intent as an opener. Not saying that Rizwan lacks it, however we can’t be depending on him to wait for a ball that is in his own range considering he only has a couple of six hitting strokes and zero ability to lift the ball outside of those 1 or 2 areas where he is strong at.
Click to expand...

Roy is a hack. Thats why he failed in Tests.
 
Thread based on hate and anti-pakhtun sentiments…there i said it

Last Sunday during my league game..overheard my Indian teammates praise Rizwan’s batting…so yeah that pretty much settles it
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
Thread based on hate and anti-pakhtun sentiments…there i said it

Last Sunday during my league game..overheard my Indian teammates praise Rizwan’s batting…so yeah that pretty much settles it
Click to expand...

What does Indian team mate validation have to do with this?
 
It's good to see so many blindly supporting Rizwan.

This is exactly what you call a bubble, when there's no actual substance.

And this same lot will be hating on Rizwan when he eventually fails and brings the team down at the World Cup.

He'll get a ton of abuse from his current supporters.
Because they didn't believe what we were telling them.
That it's a bubble.

And this thread will be bumped.

This post will be quoted.
 
Hawkeye said:
It's good to see so many blindly supporting Rizwan.

This is exactly what you call a bubble, when there's no actual substance.

And this same lot will be hating on Rizwan when he eventually fails and brings the team down at the World Cup.

He'll get a ton of abuse from his current supporters.
Because they didn't believe what we were telling them.
That it's a bubble.

And this thread will be bumped.

This post will be quoted.
Click to expand...

“Jason Roy is a hack but Rizwan isn’t”

“Rizwan can open the batting for England because Tom Banton can”

“Rizwan is a great batsman because my Indian teammates at my Sunday league match think he is”

Some absolute gems
 
So I will try to clear some of the air around. As its not just the OP rather many Pak fans in PP and outside are in disbelief and dont think its possible what Rizwan has done as they only remember a young struggling keeper in his early days.

People who have only seen Rizwan during his early international days might have been surprised by what he has achieved in last 1.5 years or so years but, anyone who has seen him through last decade and have taken a look at his domestic numbers, Pak A performances and emerging team performances might not be much surprised. The only surprise is a great domestic performer was able transition well to international cricket as its not common in Pak.

Mohammad Rizwan's exceptional keeping skills aside, he is one of the best domestic batsman overall produced by Pakistan in the last decade or so.

He was first selected in Pak team in 2012 for ODI series in WI and that was as a batsman/backup keeper. At that time Pak selectors were keenly looking at domestic numbers and Rizwan had outstanding stats even back then. Stats aside, you dont get selected for the national team at 19-20 years of age if you dont have noticeable raw skills. Thats another matter he couldnt debut back then. He played in Pak team during Sarfaraz's captaincy as well, purely as a batsman so his batting ability outside of his stats as well was well known in the circles.

Rizwan averages around 45-46 in FC cricket (Excluding test cricket) and almost 50 in list A cricket (Excluding ODIs). These are great numbers which manifest that he is a pretty good batsman as a whole who has adapted to international cricket well too in last few years. He was the best young middle order batsman in the 2014-15 Pentangular One Day Cup, scoring 3rd most number of runs with 2 100s and a 50 in 5 matches making his team champion by scoring 103* in 87 balls in the final.

Yes if he would have been an average domestic batsman, one could have possibly called him over rated, fluke or whatever but his domestic stats show he is an accomplished batsman and what he is doing at international level is a transformation of a player from one level to another and Rizwan has done it pretty well in last few years with the help from Pak A and emerging team tours.

Coming to his T20 from and numbers. If we take out his extraordinary T20I average of 44 out, he still averages around mid 30s in domestic T20 cricket. Yes his career SR of 123 in domestic T20 cricket isnt extraordinary however, he mentioned in National T20 Cup 2020 that how he was working on his power game (Razzaq being his head coach would have helped as well). Result has been his SR of 141 in T20I in last year or so. Is it really that big of a surprise that someone who had good basics worked hard on his game and improved his shot making ability?

Yes one can argue if he can maintain the extraordinary form as an opener in T20s with the impressive SR. However, calling it a bubble or fluke is just lack of information of his growth, numbers and transition. Yes like any international batsman he will have bad seasons as well but, none of those seasons in isolation would be able to define him.

Should he open the batting in whiteball cricket is a completely different debate but, calling what he as achieved a bubble, fluke is ignorance along with lack of information.
 
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Thats the problem with us; we never manage our expectations

Rizwan performed so far again C teams/ weak bowling ; and with intense competitive tournament like WT20, he is likely to fail badly as suggested how he did in T20 in Australia

People here , made him some kind of a savior or GOAT , and compared him to Sarfaraz (Sarf ion last 2 years did the least to score, but he has had a fair share of amazing match winning innings against the best bowlers, plus he played as #6/7 batsman , not like Rizwan who is playing as an opener, and other openers need to be move out of their position to accommodate Rizwan else he will be useful down the order)
 
Some people really dont understand what the post is about

Its about Rizwan's inflated white ball batting

Nowhere , his test cricket or his keeping was discussed

Some fans being too emotional just highlighted his test match batting vs Sarfaraz test match batting? WHY?
This was not even point to discuss
 
Ashmal said:
But he's not playing for the world champion Eng side....he's playing for a Pakistani team who would struggle to beat Zimbawe without him and Babar
Click to expand...

Really?

When you consume 18 overs against the so called mighty Zimbabwe , and score only 135 runs , then yes

Pakistan was doing better WITHOUT Rizwan against Zimababwe (see 2018 Zimbabwe/Australia/Pakistan try-series)

It is just Misbah effect; you will embrace mediocrity because you fear there are better options
 
iniqbal223 said:
Really?

When you consume 18 overs against the so called mighty Zimbabwe , and score only 135 runs , then yes

Pakistan was doing better WITHOUT Rizwan against Zimababwe (see 2018 Zimbabwe/Australia/Pakistan try-series)

It is just Misbah effect; you will embrace mediocrity because you fear there are better options
Click to expand...


And got all out for 99 as well
 
Rana said:
“Jason Roy is a hack but Rizwan isn’t”

“Rizwan can open the batting for England because Tom Banton can”

“Rizwan is a great batsman because my Indian teammates at my Sunday league match think he is”

Some absolute gems
Click to expand...

Some of the logic and blind support here is disgusting and foolish

They compared him to Jason Roy; Can Rizwan ever be able to perform even 50% of Jason Roy against good team for team's cause. So far it is NO

Jason Roy has moved around different batting positions just because he is so useful for the team
For Rizwan , we have to even sacrifice few openers just because Rizwan will be as useful as deadwood down the order in T20
 
I would be intrigued to know what Pakistan batsmen in the last 10 years has been able to perform against good bowling?
 
PakEngFan said:
Sharjeel average 22
Fakhar average 21
Rizwan average 43

Gues who they Pakistani fans want to remove?
Click to expand...

When did Sharjeel played so continuously against C teams

And for Fakhar, you know what he did WITH Zimbabwe series in 2018 as an opener

Do you guys even watch cricket, or just watch some random videos from PCB twitter handle or what Misbah loves
 
Concerned said:
I would be intrigued to know what Pakistan batsmen in the last 10 years has been able to perform against good bowling?
Click to expand...


Fakhar has more meaningful match winning runs than this hack Rizwan

Thats why lack math winning instincts , because we chase meaningless stats against B/C/D teams... Misbah used to do that, and we saw how many matches he won for us : 0
 
iniqbal223 said:
Really?

When you consume 18 overs against the so called mighty Zimbabwe , and score only 135 runs , then yes

Pakistan was doing better WITHOUT Rizwan against Zimababwe (see 2018 Zimbabwe/Australia/Pakistan try-series)

It is just Misbah effect; you will embrace mediocrity because you fear there are better options
Click to expand...

Yeah against the Australian D team. You forgot to mention that as well.
 
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