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Mohammad Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Ishant Sharma and Bhuvneshwar Kumar vs Pakistan seamers in Tests

MenInG

MenInG

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The ultimate comparison but who would win this battle?
 
Indian pacers are ahead now. Indians have more bite. And its a sad day for Pakistanis when they have to hear such a thing.

But

Indian pacers dont bowl in UAE which is worse for pacers than even Indian dust bowls.

Bhuvneshwar is the best test pacer in Asia at the moment.
 
The Indian seamers are easily better. They have been instrumental in the recent test wins of India. Whilst, the Pakistani seamers have lacked impact and Yasir shah does most of the work.
 
Don't be disheartened, Indian batting is poorer than Pakistani Batting so cheers
 
People make a lot of jokes about Ishant but he's a very versatile bowler to have in your XI especially when you tour away. India's attack is better as a package, you have bounce, reverse swing and swing in Ishant, Shami and Kumar; the attack which is capable on any wicket around the world
 
shaz619 said:
People make a lot of jokes about Ishant but he's a very versatile bowler to have in your XI especially when you tour away. India's attack is better as a package, you have bounce, reverse swing and swing in Ishant, Shami and Kumar; the attack which is capable on any wicket around the world
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Who hacked this account?
 
Indian bowling unit is better. They could use different conditions better than Pakistani bowling unit. If their batsmen score runs then India is going to win many tests away.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Ishantis not a main bowler. Umesh comes ahead of him.
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Ishant is more like workhorse. He does pick up some crucial wickets despite being average. Yadav can go for lots of runs and that would have lost you this match.
 
Need an express pace bowler in place of Ishant to make it a deadly bowling attack. Umesh is not the answer.
 
Our best pacers Wahab and Amir are no comparison to Shami, Bhuvneshwar, and Bumrah but all our pacers are better than Ishant.
 
Kumar > Shami > Amir > Sharma > Bumrah > Wahab > Hasan > Umesh

Only Indian bowler that could be great one day is Bumrah, but I don't like him and he is a bit overrated.
 
Rayyman said:
Kumar > Shami > Amir > Sharma > Bumrah > Wahab > Hasan > Umesh

Only Indian bowler that could be great one day is Bumrah, but I don't like him and he is a bit overrated.
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Why are you writing Hasan off when he’s played like 2 test matches....
 
OTOH our batting (except Kohli/ Rahane) is probably at par with WI when it comes to pitches in Aus/Eng/SA/NZ
 
Shami bowled a Waqar-like spell today. Never imagined an Indian bowler being able to bowl like that. He should be very proud.
 
I hope to see the U-19 guys fast tracked to the team .
 
Rayyman said:
Kumar > Shami > Amir > Sharma > Bumrah > Wahab > Hasan > Umesh

Only Indian bowler that could be great one day is Bumrah, but I don't like him and he is a bit overrated.
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Wahab is better than Sharma.
 
Pakistan is reliant on medium pacers these days.

Abbas is learning.
Amir is inconsistent.
Hasan not sure if he is a Test bowler.
Wahab all over the place.
Rahat Ali indifferent.
 
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shaz619 said:
People make a lot of jokes about Ishant but he's a very versatile bowler to have in your XI especially when you tour away. India's attack is better as a package, you have bounce, reverse swing and swing in Ishant, Shami and Kumar; the attack which is capable on any wicket around the world
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Exactly. People devalue Ishant because he doesn't somehow end with the stats to show for his effort. Today, he was IMO our best bowler and looked most likely to take the wicket when others were looking flat. Without him, I doubt we would have defended this with the way the pitch was playing. Good bowler and should be a permanent feature in the XI.
 
Indian attack is better right now. One of the main reasons for Pakistan's defeat vs the Sri Lankans was the ineffectiveness of the pacers and the cheat Amir.
 
Indian bowling is pretty good, hopefully one of those U-19 kids can replace Ishant in next couple of years and we should be sorted..
 
Princejain191 said:
Exactly. People devalue Ishant because he doesn't somehow end with the stats to show for his effort. Today, he was IMO our best bowler and looked most likely to take the wicket when others were looking flat. Without him, I doubt we would have defended this with the way the pitch was playing. Good bowler and should be a permanent feature in the XI.
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Always had a soft spot for him, he hasn't benefited from the greatest management or wickets at times but when you look at his away performances he has been excellent for India a very long time. He has also rarely benefited from the best support, doesn't come across as an alpha male but that shouldn't get in the way of what he is capable off. Now there's decent support and Ishant will thrive more then ever, while Kohli has weaknesses as a leader I think Ishant will thrive under his leadership, plus the two are good mates as well I think.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan is reliant on medium pacers these days.

Abbas is learning.
Amir is inconsistent.
Hasan not sure if he is a Test bowler.
Wahab all over the place.
Rahat Ali indifferent.
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Pre Fixing Amir was much more promising. He still occasionally shows glimpses of it. But he is not quiet the same, If he can somehow become old Amir he can singlehandedly win matches.
 
India has a much better test attack atm. Ironically, I think Pak's ODI attack is superior but the stars for Pk just don't show up in Tests.

These 4-5 guys India have now are greater than their individual value. They gel superbly.
 
Plus I would play Vijay Shanker in place of pandya a much better bat than pandya and bowls upto 135 ,a brilliant fielder too
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Need an express pace bowler in place of Ishant to make it a deadly bowling attack. Umesh is not the answer.
Click to expand...

Khaleel is bowling close to 150 in domestic, plus he is a left armer. There are more than a few 90mph + bowlers in the queue. Not that Umesh isnt express, though.
 
MenInG said:
The ultimate comparison but who would win this battle?
Click to expand...
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] , would love to hear your observations on Bhuvaneshwar Kumar? He was laughed at for being military medium, he added extra pace and now bowls 135+ and touches 145 occasionally.
Looks focussed always, even if the management doesnt support him and can bat too! How do you rate him?
 
Rightarmfast said:
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] , would love to hear your observations on Bhuvaneshwar Kumar? He was laughed at for being military medium, he added extra pace and now bowls 135+ and touches 145 occasionally.
Looks focussed always, even if the management doesnt support him and can bat too! How do you rate him?
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I have to admit I was one of the people who 'laughed' at him!

But has he proven us wrong or what?


i now rate him very high and should be a handful for ANY batting lineup
 
Indian pacers did well even in India. They contributed a lot in Indian wins in India recently (which could have been draw) and we should not forget that!
 
Rightarmfast said:
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] , would love to hear your observations on Bhuvaneshwar Kumar? He was laughed at for being military medium, he added extra pace and now bowls 135+ and touches 145 occasionally.
Looks focussed always, even if the management doesnt support him and can bat too! How do you rate him?
Click to expand...

I don't think he touched 145 anytime in past year or two. He is pace is avg 132 - 133kph in test cricket.
 
Firstly we need to to play TEST MATCHES to even be talking about a TEST ATTACK, right now our next test match is quite far away and that series is also a 2 match series :(

Abbar, Hasan are still finding their feet internationally at the test level. Wahab is just rubbish and Amir doesn't know how to handle the red ball (yet). Our test attack is basically :yasir or bust! No shame in admitting that right now.

I hope things get better.
 
Sam99 said:
maybe one odd ball but he rarely reached 140 in test match. His avg speed is around 132-133 kph in test cricket. I can maybe agree in t20 or odis.
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Maybe you believe in assumption than actual observation. Even in this series, he was touching 140.
 
India way ahead at the moment. Hopefully Hasan Ali will give a good performance in Ireland and England and establish himself as a test bowler as well. Also, if we debut Shaheen Shah, we'll have a decent pace attack, but Indias will still be a little bit better.
 
India long way ahead in test pace department

Ahead even in spin department

Yasir is the only test class bowler we have
 
Indian bowling attack is similar to pakistani batting..Shines occasionally..and nobody takes both of them seriously
 
Test averages for the bowlers-

Shami 28.90
Sharma 35.94
Kumar 26.09
Bumrah 25.21 (only 3 tests so can be discounted)

Amir 32.87
Abbas 21.34 (only 5 tests so again, discounted)
Ali 27.22 (only 2 tests)

There isn't anyone else you can even call semi regular at this point, with Wahab unlikely to be picked again and Junaid not having played for 3 years.

Apart from Kumar, there isn't much difference is there? I think Kumar is the best of the lot from India, Shami the quickest. Amir is quicker than Shami and better but not as consistent as Kumar.

The rest are too green or too rubbish (Ishant lol).

Unlike the Indians however, Pakistani seamers were crucial in winning 2 tests in England and drawing the series. India havent come close to that in 11 years.
 
barah_admi said:
Test averages for the bowlers-

Shami 28.90
Sharma 35.94
Kumar 26.09
Bumrah 25.21 (only 3 tests so can be discounted)

Amir 32.87
Abbas 21.34 (only 5 tests so again, discounted)
Ali 27.22 (only 2 tests)

There isn't anyone else you can even call semi regular at this point, with Wahab unlikely to be picked again and Junaid not having played for 3 years.

Apart from Kumar, there isn't much difference is there? I think Kumar is the best of the lot from India, Shami the quickest. Amir is quicker than Shami and better but not as consistent as Kumar.

The rest are too green or too rubbish (Ishant lol).

Unlike the Indians however, Pakistani seamers were crucial in winning 2 tests in England and drawing the series. India havent come close to that in 11 years.
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How is Amir better than Shami?
 
India has two gems in Shami and Bhuvneshwar. These two are better than any we have at the moment and amongst the top 10-12 in the world. Hassan and Bumrah are quite evenly matched in terms of potential. The rest are mediocre on both sides.

Besides we don't have a settled pace attack. Our domestic cricket has failed miserably at producing quality Test bowlers. PSL will give LO specialists like Raees but in tests you need wicket takers who get batsmen out when they are defending instead of looking to score. For that you need a good FC structure and good pitches. This is why Shaheen and Arshad Iqbal should be fast tracked along with a few other top talents. Have them learn their trade at the top with the best coaches. FC will only give you trundler and not particularly skilled ones at that.
 
barah_admi said:
Test averages for the bowlers-

Shami 28.90
Sharma 35.94
Kumar 26.09
Bumrah 25.21 (only 3 tests so can be discounted)

Amir 32.87
Abbas 21.34 (only 5 tests so again, discounted)
Ali 27.22 (only 2 tests)

There isn't anyone else you can even call semi regular at this point, with Wahab unlikely to be picked again and Junaid not having played for 3 years.

Apart from Kumar, there isn't much difference is there? I think Kumar is the best of the lot from India, Shami the quickest. Amir is quicker than Shami and better but not as consistent as Kumar.

The rest are too green or too rubbish (Ishant lol).

Unlike the Indians however, Pakistani seamers were crucial in winning 2 tests in England and drawing the series. India havent come close to that in 11 years.
Click to expand...

Kumar's stats boosted alot because of pitches he bowls on. It's like batsman playing always on flat roads and maintaining avg of 80 in tests.
 
Sam99 said:
Kumar's stats boosted alot because of pitches he bowls on. It's like batsman playing always on flat roads and maintaining avg of 80 in tests.
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Kumar's stats have certainly been boosted by playing on certain pitches but he is skilled, and if one looks beyond numbers, you can see he has the ability to swing the ball and is amazingly accurate. His line and length may never be as accurate as Asif or McGrath but his ability in this facet is some of the best among Asian bowlers.
 
barah_admi said:
Test averages for the bowlers-

Shami 28.90
Sharma 35.94
Kumar 26.09
Bumrah 25.21 (only 3 tests so can be discounted)

Amir 32.87
Abbas 21.34 (only 5 tests so again, discounted)
Ali 27.22 (only 2 tests)

There isn't anyone else you can even call semi regular at this point, with Wahab unlikely to be picked again and Junaid not having played for 3 years.

Apart from Kumar, there isn't much difference is there? I think Kumar is the best of the lot from India, Shami the quickest. Amir is quicker than Shami and better but not as consistent as Kumar.

The rest are too green or too rubbish (Ishant lol).

Unlike the Indians however, Pakistani seamers were crucial in winning 2 tests in England and drawing the series. India havent come close to that in 11 years.
Click to expand...

How is someone who barely crosses 135 in tests, quicker than Shami who bowls consistently around 140-148? And exactly how is Amir better than Shami in terms of quality?

Please don't give the same nonsensical answer about watching cricket. I have watched both India and Pakistan and know the pace as well as quality of pacers.
 
Sam99 said:
Kumar's stats boosted alot because of pitches he bowls on. It's like batsman playing always on flat roads and maintaining avg of 80 in tests.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have observed Kumar very well. Please name 5 pitches in India which resemble english pitches/ or help swing bowlers.
 
Rightarmfast said:
How is someone who barely crosses 135 in tests, quicker than Shami who bowls consistently around 140-148? And exactly how is Amir better than Shami in terms of quality?

Please don't give the same nonsensical answer about watching cricket. I have watched both India and Pakistan and know the pace as well as quality of pacers.
Click to expand...

Look, I don't want to discuss things with liars. If you even watch a single test, you will know Amir consistently hits 140 or more. In terms of mph, he is consistently between 86-88, sometimes hitting 89 or 90. In his first test series back, in England, everyone, especially Holding was impressed by his pace, considering that was his come back tour. He consistently his 88mph.

If you want to carry on lying, please do not quote me or I will be forced to put you on ignore.
 
barah_admi said:
Look, I don't want to discuss things with liars. If you even watch a single test, you will know Amir consistently hits 140 or more. In terms of mph, he is consistently between 86-88, sometimes hitting 89 or 90. In his first test series back, in England, everyone, especially Holding was impressed by his pace, considering that was his come back tour. He consistently his 88mph.

If you want to carry on lying, please do not quote me or I will be forced to put you on ignore.
Click to expand...


Lolz.. That was a good 8 yrs ago. Didnt someone open a thread in PP stating theres such a difference between the pace of Amir in T20, ODI and Test? And the pace mentioned in that thread is 130-132.. lolz :)

You have been caught red handed lying and you are accusing me of lying? Hahahaha!
 
Rightarmfast said:
Lolz.. That was a good 8 yrs ago. Didnt someone open a thread in PP stating theres such a difference between the pace of Amir in T20, ODI and Test? And the pace mentioned in that thread is 130-132.. lolz :)

You have been caught red handed lying and you are accusing me of lying? Hahahaha!
Click to expand...

Can you read? I said first test series BACK. Meaning his return series, which was 2016. Amir had 6 catches dropped off his bowling in that series and was arguably the 3rd best bowler on show. That's after 6 years of no test cricket. He consistently bowled at 88mph.

Nasser Hussain, Michael Atherton and Michael Holding were all impressed by his control, his swing and yes, his pace.

Amir also hit 147kph multiple times in NZ, which was only a limited overs series, so there is no test comparison to be made.

Now, show me where any of these pundits rank Shami's pace AND skill above Amir? Shami is decently quick and I saw most of the SA series, where he bowled more at 140 than 145, which he touched on the odd occassion. That is slightly lower than Amir's best pace or very similar to it.

Shami certainly is not more skilled and that is there for everyone to see.

So stop lying and learn to read English.
 
barah_admi said:
Can you read? I said first test series BACK. Meaning his return series, which was 2016. Amir had 6 catches dropped off his bowling in that series and was arguably the 3rd best bowler on show. That's after 6 years of no test cricket. He consistently bowled at 88mph.

Nasser Hussain, Michael Atherton and Michael Holding were all impressed by his control, his swing and yes, his pace.

Amir also hit 147kph multiple times in NZ, which was only a limited overs series, so there is no test comparison to be made.

Now, show me where any of these pundits rank Shami's pace AND skill above Amir? Shami is decently quick and I saw most of the SA series, where he bowled more at 140 than 145, which he touched on the odd occassion. That is slightly lower than Amir's best pace or very similar to it.

Shami certainly is not more skilled and that is there for everyone to see.

So stop lying and learn to read English.
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The last I heard, 2016 was 2 yrs back! And unless we are travelling in time machine, I suggest we take the current form. And atleast in the last 6 months, your champ bowler has been found wanting!
 
barah_admi said:
Can you read? I said first test series BACK. Meaning his return series, which was 2016. Amir had 6 catches dropped off his bowling in that series and was arguably the 3rd best bowler on show. That's after 6 years of no test cricket. He consistently bowled at 88mph.

Nasser Hussain, Michael Atherton and Michael Holding were all impressed by his control, his swing and yes, his pace.

Amir also hit 147kph multiple times in NZ, which was only a limited overs series, so there is no test comparison to be made.

Now, show me where any of these pundits rank Shami's pace AND skill above Amir? Shami is decently quick and I saw most of the SA series, where he bowled more at 140 than 145, which he touched on the odd occassion. That is slightly lower than Amir's best pace or very similar to it.

Shami certainly is not more skilled and that is there for everyone to see.

So stop lying and learn to read English.
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BHaijaan, go check Amir's speeds in tests. Even in ODI's he struggles to bowl quick. And skills above Shami? Which world are you living in? Plz go check Amir's avg and Shami's and go and check Shami's stats for the last 2 yrs and Amir's and then figure out yourself who is better. If you have some analytical skills, ie. If not, you are excused!
 
Aamir averages 37 odd after his comeback. He didn't do anything except for the series in the Windies. His average is worse than Yadav's average and Yadav doesn't make our team. Ishant in the last 4 years averages 30 odd and Bhuvi and Shami have obviously done better. Forget India, he's the weakest performer even in the pakistani pace attack.
 
1) Amir = Shami.
2) Hasan > Bumrah
3) Riaz > Ishant
4) Junaid = Kumar (primarily because Khan hasn't played tests in a while).
 
Bilal7 said:
1) Amir = Shami.
2) Hasan > Bumrah
3) Riaz > Ishant
4) Junaid = Kumar (primarily because Khan hasn't played tests in a while).
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Ishant > Riaz
Kumar > Junaid
Shami > Amir (as of right now)
 
How is Bhuvneshwar not classed as a GTB?

I appreciate he is very skilled but he’s played in pace friendly conditions for most of his 21 test matches. India play him on a horse for course basis which is why his average is so low.
 
Rightarmfast said:
Sounds like you have observed Kumar very well. Please name 5 pitches in India which resemble english pitches/ or help swing bowlers.
Click to expand...

I can start from India vs New Zealand tour (2016 in India)

Bhuvi wasn't even in playing xi for first test match and he came in for 2nd test (at kolkata) & pitch was helpful green wicket and he grabbed 5 fer and then he got out of xi for next test (at Indore where kohli made that 200 which was absolute flat road)

Then came England Tour of India (2016-17)
Again Bhuvi didn't play in first 3 test matches (which had almost no help for pacers) and then shami got niggle injury and bhuvi was brought as force change on pitch which didn't help him and he picked 1 wicket in that match.

Then came Aus tour of India (2017)

With Shami being injured there were 2 options Bhuvi and Ishant to play with Umesh & Bhuvi got chance in 4th (last) test where he picked 2 wicket (1 of tail and other of smith in 2nd innings of an bad shot inside edge).

Then came India tour of Srilanka (2017)

Bhuvi was no where in playing XI as pitches didn't suit him that much.

Then came Srilanka tour of India (2017)

First Match again in Eden Gardens (ganguly made green track) and it was bhuvi's kind of pitch and he again impressed all of us in that test match. But during 2nd & 3rd test he had to skip the tour due to his personal reason (marriage) and as we all know both tracks were pretty batting friendly track and i have no doubt bhuvi would have been dropped for those matches.

Now, My point is Bhuvi is yes a skillful bowler but he comes with limitation of Pitches and Condition. When Pitch is helpful he gets chance in place of umesh or ishant and when pitch is dead flat road then he sits out and umesh has to work hard on those pitches. These stats of 25 - 26 avg doesn't mean anything to me. If he plays all test matches his avg will be around 30 - 32 or maybe even more but he is very useful batsman so he can make up for it on batting pitches.
 
Shami >> amir (only delusional fans can deny that)
Bhuvi >> junaid
Bumrah = hasan
Ishant > riaz
 
Bhuvi sitting out is not because of some great strategy conceived by Indian captains. It is because of lame captaincy. Nothing more. He should not sit out in any matches. Bhuvaneswar is a fantastic new ball bowler. He is going to get wickets with new ball anywhere.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Bhuvi sitting out is not because of some great strategy conceived by Indian captains. It is because of lame captaincy. Nothing more. He should not sit out in any matches. Bhuvaneswar is a fantastic new ball bowler. He is going to get wickets with new ball anywhere.
Click to expand...

Is that why in Australia his return was 1-168?
 
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