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New Zealand vs Australia | 1st Test | Wellington | Feb 12-16, 2016 | Match Thread

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So irritating watching Smith bat, he has the technique of a number 11 but still manages to score runs in the truckloads.
 
We'll lose our no.1 rank if NZ continues to play like this. This is what I don't like about NZ, they were never a consistent side.
 
Balthazar said:
We'll lose our no.1 rank if NZ continues to play like this. This is what I don't like about NZ, they were never a consistent side.
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There really is no consistent side at the moment
 
Sorry I don't know how you miss that.

It was clearly behind the line.
 
That's ridiculous why can't that appealing no ball call be reversed if they check the front foot on no balls
 
battler said:
Another controversy in an Aus-Nz game?? Surprise Suprise!!
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So far it's 1-2.

The one time it went our way, it was actually the right decision both times Aus have benefitted from the umpires errors.

So in reality, they've made 3 mistakes against us and it's only been picked up once.
 
Space Cat said:
That's ridiculous why can't that appealing no ball call be reversed if they check the front foot on no balls
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Should be fairly obvious why they can't do that as the batsman could just turn around and say he heard the no ball call and changed his shot accordingly, it's why i don't understand why people get upset about the umps just waiting and checking after the wicket it might be slow but it ensures things like this don't happen.

All that aside nz deserve to be in this deep hole, we bowled well and they were shocking today, looked like they started to believe all this media hype that our lot are all number 11's on green pitches while they are all joe root on these decks.
 
One blunder has already cost us a Test, hopefully Voges doesn't score tomorrow.
 
i believe this happened when sl was there too. something will be done now since one of the big 3 are suffering
 
Aman said:
So far it's 1-2.

The one time it went our way, it was actually the right decision both times Aus have benefitted from the umpires errors.

So in reality, they've made 3 mistakes against us and it's only been picked up once.
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Wait till the series is over. Who knows it might even up
 
trogger said:
Should be fairly obvious why they can't do that as the batsman could just turn around and say he heard the no ball call and changed his shot accordingly, it's why i don't understand why people get upset about the umps just waiting and checking after the wicket it might be slow but it ensures things like this don't happen.

All that aside nz deserve to be in this deep hole, we bowled well and they were shocking today, looked like they started to believe all this media hype that our lot are all number 11's on green pitches while they are all joe root on these decks.
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That's a pretty weak and convoluted point against it tbh. They are supposed to be removing howlers and that's one of the worst I've seen in any form of cricket. Flawed system.
 
battler said:
Wait till the series is over. Who knows it might even up
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I still think cricket was a leveler (we got some back with Andersons decision against Pakistan), but this idk lol.

How do you see a no ball from that?
 
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Aman said:
One blunder has already cost us a Test, hopefully Voges doesn't score tomorrow.
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No your top 7's awful batting on a green pitch cost you that test, and with or without voges going tonight nz are still in a hole thanks yet again to your lot crumbling to the slightest pressure on a deck with some help.

This myth about nz needs to stop, you guys aren't england you don't bat well on these sorts of decks, us often being poor on them doesn't then make you guys quality on them.
 
trogger said:
No your top 7's awful batting on a green pitch cost you that test, and with or without voges going tonight nz are still in a hole thanks yet again to your lot crumbling to the slightest pressure on a deck with some help.

This myth about nz needs to stop, you guys aren't england you don't bat well on these sorts of decks, us often being poor on them doesn't then make you guys quality on them.
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With 4 down with little to come, I still think we'd be in the Test, it only gets easier to bat and you have Marsh and Neville to bat (neither proven).
 
Gilly said:
I don't know who to believe, you or Junaids.
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Funnily enough, this morning the freshly mowed strip was very green.

But seven hours in the sun on one of the warmest days Wellington ever gets turned the grass brown.

That's what happens!
 
I have been writing since the Lords Test in May that McCullum's New Zealand has abandoned common sense and judgment in Tests and attacks far too much.

Choosing Guptill is one example, but Williamson has forgotten how and why to leave wide balls too.

And ever since the World Cup, McCullum makes Boult bowl excessively long spells which reduce him from a 138K strike bowler to a 132K carthorse.

After the 2014 Pakistan tours by Australia and New Zealand, NZ was going places.

But McCullum's addiction to attack makes them lose Tests they should not.

And the selection of Craig over Sodhi at a ground famous for bounce without spin is just appalling.
 
Space Cat said:
That's a pretty weak and convoluted point against it tbh. They are supposed to be removing howlers and that's one of the worst I've seen in any form of cricket. Flawed system.
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Thats a pretty weak rebuttal, well it's not really a rebuttal its just a sook from somebody who can't think it through logically.

Of course we need to get things right but with no balls the only way to do that would be to have the third umpire exclusively deal with it and that way with no on field umpires real time call could be said to have influenced a shot.

If you still can't get why in the current system we can't have umpires double checking no balls that were called live then i give up, nz were very unlucky and the ump screwed up but he simply can't under this current flawed system do what you wanted.
 
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Junaids said:
And the selection of Craig over Sodhi at a ground famous for bounce without spin is just appalling.
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Did you actually watch the game?

I thought craig bowled great today and we need to show him more respect tomorrow.
 
trogger said:
Did you actually watch the game?

I thought craig bowled great today and we need to show him more respect tomorrow.
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I would always prefer a leggie to an offie in Tests other than on a square turner. And they can both bat.

As you wrote, Australia kept Craig in the match by attacking him too much. It was fascinating to watch Khawaja: he looked dreadful against spin, and has a lot of technical work to do before he faces Yasir Shah or Ashwin on pitches which suit them.
 
Umpiring errors aside, Aus deserved to finish the day on top. They outperformed us with bat and ball.
 
Junaids said:
I would always prefer a leggie to an offie in Tests other than on a square turner. And they can both bat.

As you wrote, Australia kept Craig in the match by attacking him too much. It was fascinating to watch Khawaja: he looked dreadful against spin, and has a lot of technical work to do before he faces Yasir Shah or Ashwin on pitches which suit them.
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We went too hard early(that could have been caught stumped or bowled shot from usman was a real shocker) but after that when we started calming down i thought he still looked a real threat, if nz end up setting us anything half decent batting last he could have a big role.
 
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Bad decisions tend to happen to all teams (admittedly less so to Australia than others) but there's no point in crying over them, should just focus on not losing further ground to the opposition.

If Australia manage to chase the deficit without losing a wicket, I see them getting a 100-150 run lead and that could prove decisive even if NZ make 300-350 in their second dig.
 
trogger said:
side strain, pretty sure he will be right for the next test.
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Cricinfo didn't have anything on him hence the confusion.

Also Smith's purple patch is now into its 3rd year (in Tests) and he's well on his way to reaching and breaking may milestones.
 
Haroon786 said:
Bad decisions tend to happen to all teams (admittedly less so to Australia than others) but there's no point in crying over them, should just focus on not losing further ground to the opposition.

If Australia manage to chase the deficit without losing a wicket, I see them getting a 100-150 run lead and that could prove decisive even if NZ make 300-350 in their second dig.
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nah, teams just cry about it for next decade when they got a dodgy one against us.

Reverse the situations today and all the talk here would be about how great nz bowled and how **** our flat track bullies are with the bat, one dodgy no ball at the very end of the day wouldn't rate much of a mention.
 
trogger said:
nah, teams just cry about it for next decade when they got a dodgy one against us.

Reverse the situations today and all the talk here would be about how great nz bowled and how **** our flat track bullies are with the bat, one dodgy no ball at the very end of the day wouldn't rate much of a mention.
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I'm not talking about decisions against teams when playing Australia, but rather in general, it seems like Australia get less bad decisions than other teams.
 
Haroon786 said:
I'm not talking about decisions against teams when playing Australia, but rather in general, it seems like Australia get less bad decisions than other teams.
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No they don't, certain teams and their fans were just born to be victims and they don't let facts get in the way of playing that role to perfection.

If people ignore the ones that go their way and scream blue murder when they get a dodgy one soon enough they are convinced the powers that be are out to get them and only them.
 
Haroon786 said:
Bad decisions tend to happen to all teams (admittedly less so to Australia than others) but there's no point in crying over them, should just focus on not losing further ground to the opposition.

If Australia manage to chase the deficit without losing a wicket, I see them getting a 100-150 run lead and that could prove decisive even if NZ make 300-350 in their second dig.
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This isn't your normal bad decision, it's a umpiring seeing something that isn't there (bowlers foot over the line, when it's well and truly behind it).
 
trogger said:
No they don't, certain teams and their fans were just born to be victims and they don't let facts get in the way of playing that role to perfection.

If people ignore the ones that go their way and scream blue murder when they get a dodgy one soon enough they are convinced the powers that be are out to get them and only them.
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Yet the Aussies (captain included) wouldn't shut up about the Marsh dismissal when he was well and truly out.

Some even suggested it made things even for the underarm incident...
 
Aman said:
Yet the Aussies (captain included) wouldn't shut up about the Marsh dismissal when he was well and truly out.

Some even suggested it made things even for the underarm incident...
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And i was disappointed in the way they went on about it, whether the correct procedures were followed or not the focus needed to be on the rubbish batting approach of a our top 7 in that match.
 
trogger said:
No they don't, certain teams and their fans were just born to be victims and they don't let facts get in the way of playing that role to perfection.

If people ignore the ones that go their way and scream blue murder when they get a dodgy one soon enough they are convinced the powers that be are out to get them and only them.
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There is no way to prove or disprove this since howlers are not calculated per team.

Australia just tend to get more a rub of the green than other sides.
 
Aman said:
This isn't your normal bad decision, it's a umpiring seeing something that isn't there (bowlers foot over the line, when it's well and truly behind it).
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Still a howler; yes you should be able to review that IMO.
 
Haroon786 said:
Australia just tend to get more a rub of the green than other sides.
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Or Australia just traditionally being the bad guys for many people means they get more riled up when one goes our way.

Lets be honest does anybody really think all the talk would be about that last over and not the first 89 if the situations were reversed today?

p.s. Surely with drs it would actually be easy to prove we generally get more howlers go our way?

We would have more wickets taken off us than any other bowling team and we would have more batsman given out who were originally given not out than anybody else.
 
trogger said:
Or Australia just traditionally being the bad guys for many people means they get more riled up when one goes our way.

Lets be honest does anybody really think all the talk would be about that last over and not the first 89 if the situations were reversed today?

p.s. Surely with drs it would actually be easy to prove we generally get more howlers go our way?

We would have more wickets taken off us than any other bowling team and we would have more batsman given out who were originally given not out than anybody else.
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You already seem to be in a victim mentality with the world vs Australia perspective.

What has got to do with switching roles with whether or not Australia get more howlers their way than other teams ?

Today in spite of DRS you have a howler go in favour of Australia; DRS only gives 2 chances for every 80 overs in Tests and if you've exhausted them and you have a bad decision against you, you can't to do anything about it and also it still hasn't been a decade since DRS was introduced, so even if it was a foolproof (which it isn't) method of calculating howlers then it is only relevant to the last few years.
 
Haroon786 said:
You already seem to be in a victim mentality with the world vs Australia perspective.

What has got to do with switching roles with whether or not Australia get more howlers their way than other teams ?

Today in spite of DRS you have a howler go in favour of Australia; DRS only gives 2 chances for every 80 overs in Tests and if you've exhausted them and you have a bad decision against you, you can't to do anything about it and also it still hasn't been a decade since DRS was introduced, so even if it was a foolproof (which it isn't) method of calculating howlers then it is only relevant to the last few years.
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if you're so sure do what i said look at the drs stats and they surely will show how many more bad ones go our way on field right?

But no 10 years of actual data isn't worth as much as your fact free it must be true cause i said it is opinion.
 
Haroon786 said:
I'm not talking about decisions against teams when playing Australia, but rather in general, it seems like Australia get less bad decisions than other teams.
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We lost the 2005 Ashes based on an incorrect decision in Edgbaston. Kasprowicz doesn't get incorrectly given out and we're 2-0 up.

Given that's our most significant series in the last 15 years we'd still be crying about it if we were any other team
 
Aman said:
Yet the Aussies (captain included) wouldn't shut up about the Marsh dismissal when he was well and truly out.

Some even suggested it made things even for the underarm incident...
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And some like your own Captain wouldn't shut up about Ben Stokes even though he wasn't even involved in the match.

Had a bigger cry than the actual English team
 
Back on the game i would say the craziest thing today was that we didn't drop a catch, can't be many completed innings where we didn't grass one in the last 2 years.
 
#GreenRoars said:
So it seems NZ fell in their own trap :)
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Even if we get a decent lead will still be pretty hard to actually beat them, kiwis seem to have a habit lately of getting rolled early here and then digging their way out in the 2nd dig when the pitch has gone flat.

Do hope this myth about the kiwis being great on green decks dies soon though, their batsmen really aren't any better than ours when the ball swings, they have the bowlers to really do damage on green decks but that doesn't make their batsmen world class on the same decks.
 
street cricketer said:
On 2nd thoughts, we did pretty well for an FTB team on the Lords greentop against the Duke ball [MENTION=139843]IcedCoffee[/MENTION]:srini
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Rahane baby. All day. Also, benefits of pitching it up for Aus.

But on a more serious note, I think this was just an anomaly. The conditions weren't that bad--infact there was more swing in the adelaide test vs a better attack, and the kiwis fared better.
 
IcedCoffee said:
Rahane baby. All day. Also, benefits of pitching it up for Aus.

But on a more serious note, I think this was just an anomaly. The conditions weren't that bad--infact there was more swing in the adelaide test vs a better attack, and the kiwis fared better.
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Didn't Australia lose Starc at the start of that match.
 
Gilly said:
Didn't Australia lose Starc at the start of that match.
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That's true, but he still got 9 good overs in on a track/ball that was swinging more so than today. The ball mostly seamed a fair bit today, and if anything, it showed that Khawaja and Smith aren't duds on such tracks--still a long way to go to call them naturals tho.
 
A big mea culpa from me about the New Zealand Test team.

I have attended three of their four Tests this summer against Australia, and I recognise that they have gone backwards in the 14 months since they drew away to a Pakistan team that had just massacred Australia.

The fish has rotted from the head.

They outperformed Australia in the UAE due to their greater patience and ability to defend and contain.

But that has gone out of the window and they keep losing as they indulge in an orgy of attack. They are completely one-paced and seem incapable or uninterested in protecting their wickets.

All three Tests that I have watched since November utilised the kookaburra ball. If you see off twenty overs it becomes easy to bat against, as the NZ tail showed today.

But Martin Guptill can't bat 20 overs against a decent attack in Test conditions, so his post-World Cup recall has caused major problems.

Meanwhile the supremely talented Kane Williamson is so drunk on his own flat track success that he now plays far, far too many drives outside off-stump to balls that he should leave.

And then, at 5, is McCullum. He rarely has to play against the Kookaburra inside the twenty overs when it poses a threat. So he should set out his stall to bat from over 30-80 and score 100 from 150 balls.

But no. He comes in at 100-3 in 30 overs in Tests, then plays a game of risk against the bowlers and gets out for 30 from 20 balls, having converted 100-3 into 132-4. So he exposes the lower order unnecessarily.

It's awful how this team has forgotten what brought it Test success, and seems to think that ODI formulae can win Test series.
 
A lead of 100+ here on 1st inns to me will be a match winning one on this surface, even if sun comes out more and dries this surface out i can see Aussie seamers doing plenty of damage with ball in 2nd inns as well.
 
Not sure 100 lead will be anywhere near enough, pretty sure SL and india had big leads and they still couldn't force the issue once this pitch dried out, guess the one advantage our bowlers have is they are used to grinding it out on dead tracks.
 
trogger said:
if you're so sure do what i said look at the drs stats and they surely will show how many more bad ones go our way on field right?

But no 10 years of actual data isn't worth as much as your fact free it must be true cause i said it is opinion.
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I've just stated two points which dispute that the DRS is a foolproof method of calculating howlers so isn't an accurate indicator of which team benefits most.

It's not like you've present some ironclad facts either.
 
Convict said:
We lost the 2005 Ashes based on an incorrect decision in Edgbaston. Kasprowicz doesn't get incorrectly given out and we're 2-0 up.

Given that's our most significant series in the last 15 years we'd still be crying about it if we were any other team
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Whether or not a decision is significant or not is not what we're arguing is that Australia get more favourable decisions than other teams.
 
Haroon786 said:
I've just stated two points which dispute that the DRS is a foolproof method of calculating howlers so isn't an accurate indicator of which team benefits most.
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ugh, yeah stuff drs your gut feel is more than enough.
 
trogger said:
ugh, yeah stuff drs your gut feel is more than enough.
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You're another of too many posters on PP who when someone disagrees with their opinion, instead of counteracting with points, make irrelevant remarks.

If you think DRS is a good metric of howlers then go on post the stats.
 
IcedCoffee said:
Rahane baby. All day. Also, benefits of pitching it up for Aus.

But on a more serious note, I think this was just an anomaly. The conditions weren't that bad--infact there was more swing in the adelaide test vs a better attack, and the kiwis fared better.
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Rahane scored a hundred runs, who scored the remaining 200?:jf
Even Bhuvi scored 36 runs!
Also I think English attack is surely the best attack in the world for bowling on a green pitch in English conditions.

Anyway it's true that Rahane played an incredible knock under immense pressure. But a lot of people tend to forget that Vijay hung in there for 10 overs and Pujara for 20 overs and did a great job of wearing out the new duke ball. These tiny things go under the radar if we just see the scorecard.
 
street cricketer said:
Rahane scored a hundred runs, who scored the remaining 200?:jf
Even Bhuvi scored 36 runs!
Also I think English attack is surely the best attack in the world for bowling on a green pitch in English conditions.

Anyway it's true that Rahane played an incredible knock under immense pressure. But a lot of people tend to forget that Vijay hung in there for 10 overs and Pujara for 20 overs and did a great job of wearing out the new duke ball. These tiny things go under the radar if we just see the scorecard.
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By the time Bhuvi came, the ball had lost its sting. Rahane gets most credit, but also Pujara and Vijay. As far as the English attack goes, you should see how they bowled in the first 10 overs. Hawkeye showed not a single ball hitting the stumps. It was mentioned in the match analysis. In green conditions, if you bowl short, you won't making proper use of the conditions. Regardless, they did play well nonetheless.
 
Big 1st session on day 2, the kiwis need to get rid of khwaja and also need to make some early inroads today. Australia just need to dig in and try and grind a big lead here. The Aussie batsmen usually like to be aggresive but some attritional cricket maybe needed early on in this game today.
 
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