On This Day: February 9, 2013 - Afzal Guru was hanged in Tihar Jail

[Muddaser]

this isn't an exclusive Pakistani forum..people of all nationalities are welcome here ..if any mod or admin has problem with us Indians then I would leave

But its an exclusive thread for Indians?

 

[TM Riddle]

But its an exclusive thread for Indians?

no its not..I don't see whats your point

 

[speed]

Is his second name guru?

 

[Rizwan25]

If kashmir is part if india then why do they have 700k troops patrolling the streets everyday?

Anyways, back on the hanging topic. When will the innocent hindu vegans who destroyed babri masjid and killed tons of muslims in Gujarat will be punished? :kami

Oops did i say hindu? Oh never-mind justice dept. is only for minorities.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Is his second name guru?

Mohammad Afzal Guru.

 

[akheR]

Peoples here talking of stone-pelting and then justifying their Army's mass graves, rape cases, useless torture, ... so so comparable.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Usual defensive reaction from Indian posters who condone rapists and murderers in Kashmir but protest when it occurs in Delhi.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A man who was driven to this action because of seeing decades of rape by Indian soldiers on young girls which we know now seems to be common in India throughout. He must have also witnessed children being taken away, tortured and ending up in unmarked graves.

Indian army is the biggest terrorist in Kashmir. Every occupied Kashmiri has the right to defend themselves from this despicable force.

The fact that Indians find it hard to condemn the actions of their army but are happy to rant abou stones being thrown shows how patriotically deluded these fools are.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Peoples here talking of stone-pelting and then justifying their Army's mass graves, rape cases, useless torture, ... so so comparable.

Usual defensive reaction from Indian posters who condone rapists and murderers in Kashmir but protest when it occurs in Delhi.

Problem is that whenever some pressure is put on the Indian govt regarding army's activities in Kashmir, some terrorist incident occurs in an Indian city and the attention is quickly diverted to those issues.

You may show sympathy for the Kashmiri awaam on here and i do not doubt your intentions but the ground reality is that Pak's support for militant groups ultimately ends up putting Kashmiris in more trouble. Take Afzal Guru's case for example, this was a talented and educated Kashmiri lad who fell in the hands of Jihadis, little support to their group ended up getting him hanged. wouldn't Afzal have served his community better through non-violent means by spreading political awareness to the largely uneducated and ignorant kashmiri awaam, and i don't mean to be offensive to Kashmiris but these are facts which we should honestly accept and improve on before we move forward. The good vs evil is an over dramatized hollywood concept. In real the Pakistanis and the kashmiris are morally as corrupt as the Indians.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indian army is the biggest terrorist in Kashmir. Every occupied Kashmiri has the right to defend themselves from this despicable force.

So various bomb attacks occurring in Indian cities on civilians are acts of self defense?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Do the Kashmiris want justice in peaceful manner or through war? If they seek justice in peaceful manner, they must understand that every such act of terrorism makes their situation worse. It sounds arrogant, mean and cold hearted but the brutal truth is that Indians will forget about 100 kashmiri deaths when any terrorist attack in another Indian city results in even 1 causality. This is the kind of awaam you have in whole sub-continent and probably the rest of the world, whether Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or the Americans they are all like that. What we all want basically is to have a few years of peace, then i am sure we will reach a point when govt will be pressurized to look into army's crimes in the valley and then even the govt will not have any excuse to ignore it. It isn't that we have never thought of dealing with these issues, but whenever we start discussing our army's role in kashmir, some lunatic blows up a bus in delhi/mumbai and we get back to square one and the public doesn't give a damn anymore to what problems the kashmiris are facing.


Secondly, if the kashmiris are not interested in show some more tolerance and faith in Indian govt/population and just want to achieve their goal through the mujaheedins/Pak army then good luck to them. They will be the ones suffering most in such a scenario while Indian and Pakistani trolls will have plenty to celebrate over people's deaths.

 

[Ambi]

How you would like indians to respond to these kind of statements

The demonstrators burnt Indian flags and shouted slogans like"Down with India" and "We will continue Afzal Guru's mission".

This is from Pak adminstrated kashmir

 

[KingKhanWC]

So various bomb attacks occurring in Indian cities on civilians are acts of self defense?

This type of question is only in your little mind not mine. They have a right to attack any occupying Indian soldier or any facility run by those who order the occupation, anywhere in India.

Do the Kashmiris want justice in peaceful manner or through war? If they seek justice in peaceful manner, they must understand that every such act of terrorism makes their situation worse. It sounds arrogant, mean and cold hearted but the brutal truth is that Indians will forget about 100 kashmiri deaths when any terrorist attack in another Indian city results in even 1 causality. This is the kind of awaam you have in whole sub-continent and probably the rest of the world, whether Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or the Americans they are all like that. What we all want basically is to have a few years of peace, then i am sure we will reach a point when govt will be pressurized to look into army's crimes in the valley and then even the govt will not have any excuse to ignore it. It isn't that we have never thought of dealing with these issues, but whenever we start discussing our army's role in kashmir, some lunatic blows up a bus in delhi/mumbai and we get back to square one and the public doesn't give a damn anymore to what problems the kashmiris are facing.


Secondly, if the kashmiris are not interested in show some more tolerance and faith in Indian govt/population and just want to achieve their goal through the mujaheedins/Pak army then good luck to them. They will be the ones suffering most in such a scenario while Indian and Pakistani trolls will have plenty to celebrate over people's deaths.

Only a deluded supporter of Indian state terrorism would first attempt to lay the blame on the occupied and oppressed but not blame the real cause which is the oppressor, the Indian state and army.

Kashmiri's are have always wanted peace but Indians have always wanted rape and pillage. History has proven no force can occupy and oppress people against their will forever.

You continue making excuses for your beloved army and continue not condemning their actions, it means nothing but self comfort for you.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This type of question is only in your little mind not mine. They have a right to attack any occupying Indian soldier or any facility run by those who order the occupation, anywhere in India.

Which means they want to solve their problems themselves. So there is no point in demanding any thing from the Indian govt. By resorting to violence, they lose any sympathy that Indians and the international community may have towards them for our army's activities over there. Both parties are flawed, the international community will just let them be.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

A man who was driven to this action because of seeing decades of rape by Indian soldiers on young girls which we know now seems to be common in India throughout. He must have also witnessed children being taken away, tortured and ending up in unmarked graves.

Indian army is the biggest terrorist in Kashmir. Every occupied Kashmiri has the right to defend themselves from this despicable force.

The fact that Indians find it hard to condemn the actions of their army but are happy to rant abou stones being thrown shows how patriotically deluded these fools are.

Yes, we do all that and will keep on doing that. If you have a problem with that, come to Kashmir and join your brethren. Ranting about it while sitting in the comfort and security of UK isn't helping anybody.

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ These are disrespectful comments, KKWC is not afraid of going to Kashmir and working with the militants. We may have difference of opinions with him but never for a second doubt his commitment to the liberation of Kashmir. He is for now gathering an army so you should rather focus on dealing with a fully devoted and trained fighter in near future because this man will be bringing it.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Jammu and Kashmir has been relatively peaceful over the past couple of years. I think Pranab Mukherjee and the Indian government have made a mistake by hanging Afzal Guru. It's achieved very little and has risked a lot. He's now a martyr to those who sympathise with his cause.


Life imprisonment with hard labour would have been a better option.

 

[RexRex]

^The timing is interesting.It is possible the UPA did this to divert attention from all the good press Modi has been getting .First the massive electoral victory in Gujarat and now the Europeans are warming upto him.Interesting times ahead.

 

[kaayal]

i don't think anyone should be freed just by sentencing a few years in the jail after planning and executing a potential attack that could destroy a countries parliament. even if it is from kashmir or other part of the country such people should really get some serious punishment. but i feel for him as he was an educated young muslim man who could have helped kashmir in other ways.but as someone mentioned earlier this is clearly a political move by congress.they could have done it before as the evidences which has been laid down are the same which are found few year ago.so this sudden move is really fishy.lets hope the people of kashmir don't misunderstand it as an injustice to them but as a punishment for guilty.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Just watched full interview of Afzal Guru himself, done in December 2001, confessing his role in the parliament attack. Very sad stuff this, looked like a very decent bloke to me. Another story of a decent Kashmiri guy who becoming puppet to Pakistan based terrorists and later on getting screwed by Indian people/politicians. Typical, i wonder when will the Kashmiris realize they are just being used for people's own agendas.


Can't find it on youtube unfortunately, Aaj Tak showed it. He looked in good state of mind and explained everything. Was just providing outside support to terrorists who carried out the actual attacks. Ruined his life.

Here it is:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9zJcFO8VvqA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ Yup, this is the interview i was talking about. Thanks for sharing. Watched it with my mom, we both felt quite sad about him falling in wrong people's hands and ruining his life.

 

[Sir john]

Justice done after 11 years.

 

[123]

Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

So Kashmiris have a right to attack and kill Indians but Indians don't have a right to punish a convicted terrorist ?

 

[123]

Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

A man who was driven to this action because of seeing decades of rape by Indian soldiers on young girls which we know now seems to be common in India throughout. He must have also witnessed children being taken away, tortured and ending up in unmarked graves.

Indian army is the biggest terrorist in Kashmir. Every occupied Kashmiri has the right to defend themselves from this despicable force.

The fact that Indians find it hard to condemn the actions of their army but are happy to rant abou stones being thrown shows how patriotically deluded these fools are.

I thought he was innocent and now you are saying he was driven to these acts so did or did he not participate in a crime in which many people died, was he someone who went to Pakistan to get training to become a killer ?

As for army, it's not being deployed even after afzal's hanging and for double standard, do you feel that people who raped and killed Kashmiri Hindus have also been allowed to get away with it ?

 

[jeetu]

Glad that he is hanged.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I felt quite odd to see victim's family celebrating Afzal's hanging today. Quite sad stuff, never been a big fan of executions anyway.

 

[Varun]

Good riddance but I am pretty sure a revenge army is being readied to strike at targets in India, hope home ministry took necessary precautions to prevent 'non-state' warriors from opening fire at unarmed civilians.

Yeah, unbelievably some will be peeved that we hung a guy who tried to destroy our parliament.

 

[Varun]

A man who was driven to this action because of seeing decades of rape by Indian soldiers on young girls which we know now seems to be common in India throughout. He must have also witnessed children being taken away, tortured and ending up in unmarked graves.

Indian army is the biggest terrorist in Kashmir. Every occupied Kashmiri has the right to defend themselves from this despicable force.

The fact that Indians find it hard to condemn the actions of their army but are happy to rant abou stones being thrown shows how patriotically deluded these fools are.

You have got to be.....

 

[pacesensation]

I hope that all the Hindians who posted negative remarks here should be hanged sorry banned from this forum.

Kashmiris deserce their own khudmukhtaar place. And you indians especially your nehru promised that. But never acted.

 

[Singham]

Every Indian supports Indian military for killing the terrorists and separatists just like Pakistanis support killing Balochistan separatists.

 

[123]

Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

I hope that all the Hindians who posted negative remarks here should be hanged sorry banned from this forum.

Kashmiris deserce their own khudmukhtaar place. And you indians especially your nehru promised that. But never acted.

So a trained terrorist is a positive and we are negative

 

[cricketjoshila]

LOL.Thread on expected lines.Please Pakistanis look after your own country.Kashmir is NOT your country.If there is a problem its between India and KAshmir,Not Pakistan.

Mussharaf in his interview said that Pakistan uses terrorism as a weapon againist India.So i guess a few people here are upset that a terrorist got hanged.

I a still to understand,what right does Pakistan has interfering in Kashmir.Sorry the UMMAH is not something that has any legal veracity anywhere in world.So please tell who gave Pakistanis the right to send TERRORISTS in Kashmir?

 

[123]

Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

Why wouldn't it hurt, even by afzal's confession he was trained to become a fighter/terrorist in Pakistan. So much for aman ki asha lol

 

[Nitin Tomer]

^ These are disrespectful comments, KKWC is not afraid of going to Kashmir and working with the militants. We may have difference of opinions with him but never for a second doubt his commitment to the liberation of Kashmir. He is for now gathering an army so you should rather focus on dealing with a fully devoted and trained fighter in near future because this man will be bringing it.

In that case, I'd have to enlist for the army

 

[Bhaijaan]

In that case, I'd have to enlist for the army

Good luck to you. Be a respectable army man and never hurt any innocent Kashmiri. We need to get rid off this embarrassment to avoid honest and sincere people like KKWC becoming the next Afzal Gurus.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Good luck to you. Be a respectable army man and never hurt any innocent Kashmiri. We need to get rid off this embarrassment to avoid honest and sincere people like KKWC becoming the next Afzal Gurus.

I do respect and have sympathy for people who - 1. belong to Kashmir. 2. have genuine grievances. But for people like KKWC who do not have anything to do with Kashmir, and are intruding on the basis of some imaginary ummah, I have no respect.

And you must be kidding about KKWC becoming the next Afzal Guru. All he can do is rant from UK, he doesn't have the cojones to do anything more.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I do respect and have sympathy for people who - 1. belong to Kashmir. 2. have genuine grievances. But for people like KKWC who do not have anything to do with Kashmir, and are intruding on the basis of some imaginary ummah, I have no respect.

And you must be kidding about KKWC becoming the next Afzal Guru. All he can do is rant from UK, he doesn't have the cojones to do anything more.

Do you think he's eaten all the meat to sit like a loser in UK? Have you not read about him bullying hindu Indian students in UK's streets while doing his night patrol and the hindu Indian students running away from him with their heads down? Have you not read about him asking the Ummah all over the world to go to Kashmir and fight against Indian army? Hate his intentions but respect his sincerity.

 

[Inziquicksingle]

Do you think he's eaten all the meat to sit like a loser in UK? Have you not read about him bullying hindu Indian students in UK's streets while doing his night patrol and the hindu Indian students running away from him with their heads down? Have you not read about him asking the Ummah all over the world to go to Kashmir and fight against Indian army? Hate his intentions but respect his sincerity.

Did KKWC really say the thing about bullying Hindu students? If so

As a Kashmiri who is against the Indian occupation, I can only say that based on what Afzal admitted himself this punishment should not come as a surprise. I'm really not sure why Pakistanis are so up in arms over this. I mean what else can we expect? As far as I can tell, he admitted to aiding and abetting foreigners to commit murder in the capital. The judgement is clear.

The only issue I have is the timing of this seems like a political move. And as usual Kashmiris in the valley will suffer because of this. My hope is due the winter there isnt a lasting effect and everything simmers down before spring. The Indian government doesn't really care though.

 

[Animal]

The Supreme Court admitted that the evidence against this poor fruit seller from Kashmir was 'circumstantial.' Yet the court still condemned him to death to satisfy, as it said, 'the collective conscience' of society. I think this is the first instance of a man executed on the basis of circumstantial evidence.

Now, that's what I call justice!

 

[Indiafan]

The Supreme Court admitted that the evidence against this poor fruit seller from Kashmir was 'circumstantial.' Yet the court still condemned him to death to satisfy, as it said, 'the collective conscience' of society. I think this is the first instance of a man executed on the basis of circumstantial evidence.

Now, that's what I call justice!

Its not the first instance of people being put to death based on circumstantial evidence alone. There are often times when there will not be concrete witnesses given the nature of the crime. Circumstantial evidence doesnt mean incomplete, miselading or unstable evidence.

The circumstancial evidence under which he was convicted includes (but not limited to) evidence/confession which nailed others directly involved in the crime and also proved he took the terrorists in his own car. People have been executed for far less

Collective conscience of society? I am against the death penalty but if it exists, surely an attack which would have wiped out half of our leaders, leaving the country in chaos, surely qualifies as one? That is an attack on the country rather than indivudual

Poor fruit-seller indeed, looks like you took a trip to lala land

 

[Animal]

Its not the first instance of people being put to death based on circumstantial evidence alone. There are often times when there will not be concrete witnesses given the nature of the crime. Circumstantial evidence doesnt mean incomplete, miselading or unstable evidence.

The circumstancial evidence under which he was convicted includes (but not limited to) evidence/confession which nailed others directly involved in the crime and also proved he took the terrorists in his own car. People have been executed for far less

Collective conscience of society? I am against the death penalty but if it exists, surely an attack which would have wiped out half of our leaders, leaving the country in chaos, surely qualifies as one? That is an attack on the country rather than indivudual

Poor fruit-seller indeed, looks like you took a trip to lala land

Denied access to lawyer in jail - check
Junior lawyer defending him in court refuses to meet client - check
Lawyer does not cross examine prosecution witnesses - check

I do not take trips to a land where I already live. Step away from the Kool Aid and find out more about this complicated case in which the most vulnerable player (i.e. Muslim, poor, Kashmiri) is made a scapegoat.

I look forward to examples of people getting executed on circumstantial evidence, or less (Military Kangaroo courts excepted).

Finally, I do not know how old you were when the Parliament attack took place, but I remember it as the first time people were actually buggered that the terrorists did not succeed in bumping off a few politicians instead of the poor (like them) maalis and watchmen.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

Finally, I do not know how old you were when the Parliament attack took place, but I remember it as the first time people were actually buggered that the terrorists did not succeed in bumping off a few politicians instead of the poor (like them) maalis and watchmen.

By his own admission, he was supporting the terrorists who attacked the partliment. 9 people were killed in that; it was an attack on India's sovereignty. If it was not a rarest of rare crime then what is?

 

[Bhaijaan]

As a Kashmiri who is against the Indian occupation, I can only say that based on what Afzal admitted himself this punishment should not come as a surprise. I'm really not sure why Pakistanis are so up in arms over this. I mean what else can we expect? As far as I can tell, he admitted to aiding and abetting foreigners to commit murder in the capital. The judgement is clear.

The only issue I have is the timing of this seems like a political move. And as usual Kashmiris in the valley will suffer because of this. My hope is due the winter there isnt a lasting effect and everything simmers down before spring. The Indian government doesn't really care though.

Very sensible post. The Kashmiris are genuinely screwed between Indians and Pakistanis. One side tells them to stay quite, other side tells them to take up arms and both of them are not solutions to their problem. The Kashmiris need to realize the grey nature of both sides they are dealing with, there are no angels and demons. They can achieve their objectives only and only through non-violence.

 

[Animal]

By his own admission, he was supporting the terrorists who attacked the partliment. 9 people were killed in that; it was an attack on India's sovereignty. If it was not a rarest of rare crime then what is?

When has supporting terrorists been punished by execution? I thought that rarest of rare sentences is reserved for those who had directly inflicted death (i.e. Kasab).

One may as well say - "By his own admission, omission, and commission, Narendra Modi was supporting the terrorists who attacked unarmed civilians in 2002. More than 500 people were killed in that; it was an attack on India's sovereignty. If it was not a rarest of rare crime then what is?"

Yet I don't see anyone clamouring to execute Modi.

 

[kaayal]

he was not sentenced for killing civilians but for planning and helping to execute an attack on to the parliament and its members including the PM of India,which is a more severe and an attack to the whole nation.just think of the situation in the country if he and his friends were succesful in their mission.there will be utter chaos in the country.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

One may as well say - "By his own admission, omission, and commission, Narendra Modi was supporting the terrorists who attacked unarmed civilians in 2002.

What is the burden of proof here? Or you just imagined it?

 

[Animal]

What is the burden of proof here? Or you just imagined it?

How sweet. All of sudden you want proof? How come that wasn't an issue with Afzal Guru?

But I have circumstantial evidence.

All communal riots in India are engineered for political reasons. Gujarat 2002 is a case in point. Once they begin, political masters have two choices - control it immediately or allow it to continue. During the Bodo-Muslim clashes in Assam last year, once the state government assessed the police is unable to control the violence, they picked up the phone and called in the army. Peace was restored within 72 hours.

But in Gujarat, when it was pretty effing clear the state police was unable to control the riots, all Mr. Vikaspurush had to do was pick up the phone and call in the army. The sight of a platoon of Gurkhas on flag march is all it takes for the lumpen elements of society to disappear. But he didn't.

One can draw two conclusions out of this act of omission. Modi was paralyzed into inaction by the brutality of the gang rapes and mass killings.

Or he deliberately let the killings continue because it served his agenda.

Since we are in the realm of circumstantial evidence, the first option - that Modi was shocked into numbness - is unlikely, because if his PR machine is to be believed, he is a 'man of action.'

This leaves with the second conclusion. He deliberately refused to stop the riots by calling in the army. What could have been his agenda? Pretty obvious, considering he is just another run-of-the-mill politician hungering for power. He sniffed an opportunity to consolidate his vote bank ahead of state elections.

Such a man is now being projected as a next PM of the country, while a poor man from a marginalized community is hanged in our name to satisfy some imaginary societal 'conscience.' Conscience. Don't make me laugh. Mukesh Ambani can buy the nation's conscience right now if he wants to. If Afzal Guru had a 100 cr PR machine backing him, he would have become CM of J&K at the least.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

When has supporting terrorists been punished by execution? I thought that rarest of rare sentences is reserved for those who had directly inflicted death (i.e. Kasab).

One may as well say - "By his own admission, omission, and commission, Narendra Modi was supporting the terrorists who attacked unarmed civilians in 2002. More than 500 people were killed in that; it was an attack on India's sovereignty. If it was not a rarest of rare crime then what is?"

Yet I don't see anyone clamouring to execute Modi.

His guilt was provenAnd he was proven to be guilty of waging war againist the nation amd treason.Which is enough to be awarded the death penalty.


Please if you have evidence prove Modi orchestrated the riots.I am sure Congress will make sure that he gets the death penalty.

 

[Senman]

@Animal

What should have been done, that could have satisfied you? you're wrong when you're comparing Modi the politician with Afzal Guru the terrorist. Modi should be compared with Kashmir separatist leaders because both getaway with inciting violence against other religions, like most of the politicians. Its up to us, people, to vote them out then law will take its course.

Attack on parliament is no joke, its tantamount to nuclear strike on whole of India.

 

[Animal]

His guilt was provenAnd he was proven to be guilty of waging war againist the nation amd treason.Which is enough to be awarded the death penalty.


Please if you have evidence prove Modi orchestrated the riots.I am sure Congress will make sure that he gets the death penalty.

The evidence against the man exists in the testimonies of constables and policemen across Gujarat who will never testify because they have been bought off with money, postings and a base appeal to religious pride. Please read the Tehelka sting on the VHP to understand how complicit Modi's administration was in enabling the rioters.

How can I get that evidence to the court? I can't. I'm just an average Joe.

But I'm not stupid. I know how the Gujarat riots played out. And I am not so morally depraved that I will support a gangrape- and murder enabling politician in his personal quest for power.

 

[Animal]

@Animal

What should have been done, that could have satisfied you? you're wrong when you're comparing Modi the politician with Afzal Guru the terrorist. Modi should be compared with Kashmir separatist leaders because both getaway with inciting violence against other religions, like most of the politicians. Its up to us, people, to vote them out then law will take its course.

Attack on parliament is no joke, its tantamount to nuclear strike on whole of India.

You're right. Modi cannot be compared to some nobody like Afzal Guru. Afzal Guru is a victim, Modi - like the Kashmiri separatists you mention - represents the oppressors. One thing I know for a fact about the world - duniya mein gareebon ka koi nahi hota. They are condemned to be railroaded into harebrained jihadi plots for some measly sum, and when caught - left to fend for themselves while their masters chuckle and sip whiskey in the high security confines of Islamabad and New Delhi.

Death was a cruel end to Afzal Guru. He deserved punishment, sure. But life incarceration should have more than sufficed. He was killed to gain approval ratings, to satisfy bloodlust, to harden a political party's image. But he was not killed because he deserved it.

And that my friend, is a travesty of justice.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

The evidence against the man exists in the testimonies of constables and policemen across Gujarat who will never testify because they have been bought off with money, postings and a base appeal to religious pride. Please read the Tehelka sting on the VHP to understand how complicit Modi's administration was in enabling the rioters.

How can I get that evidence to the court? I can't. I'm just an average Joe.

But I'm not stupid. I know how the Gujarat riots played out. And I am not so morally depraved that I will support a gangrape- and murder enabling politician in his personal quest for power.

Without evidence no one can punish anyone.Were Police constables told by Modi to not to rein in the rioters?I guess not.

Modi may have issued the orders to the highest ranking officers in the state so testimony of a constable will hold little value.All he is doing is commenting on heresay.

Modi administration and Modi personally are two very different things.Dont mix them up.Administrative failure cannot be blamed on one person only.If that be the case i suggest arrest the CM of every state that has/had riots.

Gujurat riots started as a direct retaliation of Godhra carnage.Lets be honest some people of the Muslim community thought that they would do this and get away because of political unwillingness to interfere and punish people of minority community.for their votes.

Modi may have been responsible for laxity and failure to rein in the rioters.Whether he encouraged them is something which is totally unproven.

 

[Senman]

You're right. Modi cannot be compared to some nobody like Afzal Guru. Afzal Guru is a victim, Modi - like the Kashmiri separatists you mention - represents the oppressors. One thing I know for a fact about the world - duniya mein gareebon ka koi nahi hota. They are condemned to be railroaded into harebrained jihadi plots for some measly sum, and when caught - left to fend for themselves while their masters chuckle and sip whiskey in the high security confines of Islamabad and New Delhi.

Death was a cruel end to Afzal Guru. He deserved punishment, sure. But life incarceration should have more than sufficed. He was killed to gain approval ratings, to satisfy bloodlust, to harden a political party's image. But he was not killed because he deserved it.

And that my friend, is a travesty of justice.

Pardon me but I don't understand your point, is it

(1) Rich vs Poor?
(2) Modi vs Afzal Guru?
(3) Hindu vs Muslim? or
(4) justice vs injustice?

If you're arguing about no.4 then I believe justice has been served albeit late, law is pretty clear on this. He was intelligent enough to plot an attack on parliament and nearly succeeded and you believe he is naive!!! get off your bias man.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

You're right. Modi cannot be compared to some nobody like Afzal Guru. Afzal Guru is a victim, Modi - like the Kashmiri separatists you mention - represents the oppressors. One thing I know for a fact about the world - duniya mein gareebon ka koi nahi hota. They are condemned to be railroaded into harebrained jihadi plots for some measly sum, and when caught - left to fend for themselves while their masters chuckle and sip whiskey in the high security confines of Islamabad and New Delhi.

Death was a cruel end to Afzal Guru. He deserved punishment, sure. But life incarceration should have more than sufficed. He was killed to gain approval ratings, to satisfy bloodlust, to harden a political party's image. But he was not killed because he deserved it.

And that my friend, is a travesty of justice.

Are you Arundhati Roy by any chance?

 

[GentleMan]

Are you Arundhati Roy by any chance?

yes, and I am charu majumdar.

 

[Animal]

Pardon me but I don't understand your point, is it

(1) Rich vs Poor?
(2) Modi vs Afzal Guru?
(3) Hindu vs Muslim? or
(4) justice vs injustice?

If you're arguing about no.4 then I believe justice has been served albeit late, law is pretty clear on this. He was intelligent enough to plot an attack on parliament and nearly succeeded and you believe he is naive!!! get off your bias man.

How about all 4? The law that you hold so close to your chest is a system that works only for the rich and the powerful. And I think you are naive if you believe Afzal Guru was the mastermind behind the terrorist attack. The real culprits will never be caught, be it 911 or whatever. Only the easiest, softest targets will be punished.

Anyway, looks like your conscience got satisfied with the death of Afzal Guru. Why, is something between you and your conscience.

Are you Arundhati Roy by any chance?

I wish I was. She speaks truth to power and has more integrity on her little finger than a politician like Modi can garner in nine lives.

Gujurat riots started as a direct retaliation of Godhra carnage.Lets be honest some people of the Muslim community thought that they would do this and get away because of political unwillingness to interfere and punish people of minority community.for their votes.

Your post reeks of medieval barbarism. If I understand you correctly, if a group of people break the law, society has the right to murder and rape a completely different set of people in some other place only because they follow the same religion.

What can I say pal. That's just a terrible way to think.

Modi may have been responsible for laxity and failure to rein in the rioters.Whether he encouraged them is something which is totally unproven.

Without evidence no one can punish anyone.Were Police constables told by Modi to not to rein in the rioters?I guess not.

Modi may have issued the orders to the highest ranking officers in the state so testimony of a constable will hold little value.All he is doing is commenting on heresay.

Modi administration and Modi personally are two very different things.Dont mix them up.Administrative failure cannot be blamed on one person only.

But what's this? For someone who is advocating illegal societal punishment on random strangers for the acts of their co-religionists, how come you are suddenly oh-so-sensitive when it comes to your guy that you need evidence merely to condemn him?

But I know you are not serious about seeking evidence. The testimonies of civil servants like Sanjiv Bhat and rioters like Babu Bajrangi are out there in the public domain. You are willfully ignoring them in your haste to provide a fig live to your naked king of kings.

If Modi can take all the credit for the so-called development in Gujarat, why should he not take all the blame for such a colossal, shameful and abysmal failure of governance back in 2002? The buck stops with him, he was the chief minister. As I said, all he had to do was place a call to New Delhi and get a division of troops sent to the state.

If that be the case i suggest arrest the CM of every state that has/had riots if they are/were allowed to fester for political advantage.

Fixed

 

[kaayal]

the most important problem with Modi is that even if most people know that he has some hand in the riot,he is so powerful in gujrat that he can keep everything under the carpet through his influence.and also repeatedly gets elected with vast majority which makes his critique to shut up.but i feel that he will never become PM of india.he can never influence the rest of the country through his communal tactics.may God bless india from such morons.

 

[kaayal]

double post.

 

[Cracket]

Finally Supreme Court decision had been upheld and executed.. There is no place for terrorism in this world

I think we're at least 500 years or so away from this view being really accepted, but executions don't help anything, except making martyr's and giving their people more of a reason to grow hatred towards India or whoever the executioner is. You're pretty freakin' deluded if you think it'll help curb terrorism. It won't in the slightest.

Terrorists need to be viewed as circumstantial victims themselves who were coerced into doing what they did. They didn't come out of their mother's wombs with hatred and Pakistan's flag in their hands but they were told to hate, then trained, then motivated by the adults around them. The same goes for other extremely anti-social crimes. The world we live in divides everything into good and evil, black and white too easily when its all grey. You're evil to them, they're evil to you. I'm not going all Gandhian and saying we never need violence, we do need it but as a policing/security means of force, not vengeance or ego.

Very few nations like Norway really get this ideology though and it shows in their prison system (which is actually more of medical care/therapeutic facility than suffering/eternal torture chambers, even for terrorists). Even USA is primitive when it comes to this.

 

[Senman]

@Animal
So he is a poor lackey decided to blowup parliament on behalf of a mastermind to provide food for his family, is that right?

Do you know how many fishermen were fired upon this side of India? does Arundhati Roy care? she is just a limelight hogger.

Just ask yourself this, will India pardon him if he is a Hindu and belong to a different state? my conscience is clear bro, its you who is looking at this through a glass made of religion.

 

[mithun_minhas]

I am glad that this d-bag Afzal Guru is hanged. Nobody should ever dare to attack the Parliament building ever agian.

The only thing I am sad about is that Afzal Guru should have taken out a few scum that are sitting in the parliament.

Congress has played the game really well here. Afzal Guru should have been hanged long long ago. Can anyone dare to throw a stone at white house or Senate building in USA? Nobody would ever see day light after doing that.
The timing of the hanging decision is very suspicious. They are trying to woo the public sentiment and prevent BJP from coming back to power.

 

[Vegitto1]

Good riddance but I am pretty sure a revenge army is being readied to strike at targets in India, hope home ministry took necessary precautions to prevent 'non-state' warriors from opening fire at unarmed civilians.

One can only hope.

Now when will Pakistan hang all those indian army pigs in our jails?

 

[shan]

One Animal vs dozen RSS PPers, its not fair.

 

[Senman]

One Animal vs dozen RSS PPers, its not fair.

This is how brainwashing is done, anyone who has alternative POV are branded as muslim- haters or RSS supporters but if you have a little bit of intelligence you'll know the religion of people who decided to hang him(like cong party president, PM, Vice President, RAW chief), its definitely not Modi or RSS.

 

[mithun_minhas]

One Animal vs dozen RSS PPers, its not fair.

RSS PPers?

Please man.

Afzal Guru deserved to be hanged. The only problem is he will be considered some sort of martyr now in Kashmir. IMO, he should have been given life imprisonment.

Coming to Modi, I believe he should be put in jail permanently for not doing anything regarding riots. There are a lot of Muslim MLA's I know in Andhra Pradesh who played major roles in riots. They never got punished. They are roaming scott free and some are still in power.
2 Wrongs don't make it right. But, that is India. When you are a minister, you can get away with murder as the charges are hard to prove. Only the low level thugs get punished. Like in Gujarat riots, a lot of RSS and Bajrang Dal thugs got life imprisonment.

 

[waqar goraya]

Cowards! they even did not let his family meet him and did not gave his body to the family..Pathetic action from so called democratic country..

 

[Sankalp]

Though I am against capital punishment, but you simply cannot get away by targetting the Parliament. Definitely not in India. His motive might have been to liberate Kashmir or anything else, but nothing justifies bombing the constitution of the nation. The people who supports it are mentally sick.
Telegu people are fighting for seperate Telangana, Nepali people in Darjeeling fighting for seperate gorkhaland. Do they enter inside the parliament by stealing home minister sticker and start shooting?

 

[kaayal]

as expected congress govt,BJP and media are making an absolute mess out of this now.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Cowards! they even did not let his family meet him and did not gave his body to the family..Pathetic action from so called democratic country..

Dude, get real. If the body is handed over to the family, people will go bonkers shouting religious and anti-india slogans and there will be rioting and stone pelting. Then police and CRPF and Army will be called in to control the mob, one idiot in the army will fire at the mob and a couple of Kashmiris will die and the cycle continues.

If anything, Govt was smart in not giving the body to the family.

 

[Sankalp]

Cowards! they even did not let his family meet him and did not gave his body to the family..Pathetic action from so called democratic country..

Did America handed Osama Bin Laden's body? I dont see any difference between Laden and Guru. Both are terrorists and treated accordingly.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Did America handed Osama Bin Laden's body? I dont see any difference between Laden and Guru. Both are terrorists and treated accordingly.

If the body is handed over, then it will only add fuel to the fire. Terrorists turn into Martyrs.

 

[waqar goraya]

Did America handed Osama Bin Laden's body? I dont see any difference between Laden and Guru. Both are terrorists and treated accordingly.

Who told you that Americans were right in their actions?
Do yoy know what punishment has been handed down to Mumbai plotter who was their own American?..They did not executed him because he was their own...

Yep,You are right laden was not an American,so Afzal is not an Indian,thus it justifies....

No country can do this to its own citizens and Afzal was not an Indian at all..
That makes a lot of sense now

Children like Mithun also need to see the difference..

 

[mithun_minhas]

Who told you that Americans were right in their actions?
Do yoy know what punishment has been handed down to Mumbai plotter who was their own American?..They did not executed him because he was their own...

Yep,You are right laden was not an American,so Afzal is not an Indian,thus it justifies....

No country can do this to its own citizens and Afzal was not an Indian at all..
That makes a lot of sense now

Children like Mithun also need to see the difference..

Afzal Guru got actually better treatment than some of the Naxalites get in India.

Naxalites are terrorists too. They attack Govt buildings, kill police and innocents.

Do you know how Naxalites are killed? They are shot like dogs and bodies are never given to their families.

So aren't Naxalites not Indian? They are very much Indian.

Man, I am amazed how you guys try to call Kashmiris as non-Indian. They are as much Indian as me. They just do not want to be part of the country. If anything, Kashmiris do not consider themselves to be Indian.

I always wonder when this separation from India movement started? Kashmiris have always been the same genetically. They were considered part of Indian culture like Gujratis or Bengalis or Marathis... They prayed to the same Gods too... Even when majority of Kashmiris converted to Islam, they did not hate Hindus. So what happened in the last 25yrs that changed everything? Why do they want to separate from India now?

 

[kaayal]

waqar,tell me what will the americans have done if one of their citizen were going to bomb down the white house or pentagon.then no one will look at the place from where he is originated or the community which he belongs, its the severity of the crime he had done then matters.

 

[waqar goraya]

But Afzal was not directly involved in any killings according to Indian people and media..fact

My forefathers were also sikh,they were used to live in same villages with peace ,does it make me an Indian?

Kashmir is a disputed territory according to UN..fact

I do not need to call,your 600000 army present in India,your state's treating of Kasmiris,and UN resolutions call it...

 

[123]

By his own admission, he was supporting the terrorists who attacked the partliment. 9 people were killed in that; it was an attack on India's sovereignty. If it was not a rarest of rare crime then what is?

Innocent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTRyglPKGjs

 

[Animal]

@Animal
So he is a poor lackey decided to blowup parliament on behalf of a mastermind to provide food for his family, is that right?

Not entirely. He was a poor lackey, and he did decide to blow up the parliament on behalf of a mastermind/s. But not to provide food for his family, that's for sure. Money must have played a part, but so too could a new found jihadi zeal cynically nurtured by his handlers.

Do you know how many fishermen were fired upon this side of India? does Arundhati Roy care? she is just a limelight hogger.

Its pretty evident you have not read Ms Roy's writings. Nothing can explain you reducing her to the status of a limelight hogger. Maybe they have her splashed on page 3 supplements in the Slimes of India's Chennai edition. Just sayin....

Just ask yourself this, will India pardon him if he is a Hindu and belong to a different state? my conscience is clear bro, its you who is looking at this through a glass made of religion.

If he was an upper caste Hindu of the elite classes, he would not have been executed for sure.

And Senman, I look at nothing through religious eyes. I bear no allegiance to any organized religion. Each one is as bad as the other. I'm just reading alternative viewpoints to this whole affair and drawing my conclusions based on that.

PS: What have fishermen got to do with this?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

But Afzal was not directly involved in any killings according to Indian people and media..fact

My forefathers were also sikh,they were used to live in same villages with peace ,does it make me an Indian?

Kashmir is a disputed territory according to UN..fact

I do not need to call,your 600000 army present in India,your state's treating of Kasmiris,and UN resolutions call it...

UN resolution allow India to keep its army in Kashmir but asks Pakistan to withdraw from it.Then plebicite can be held there.

Do you think Pakistan has a role in Kashmir?If yes then any talks of plebicite has been waived off by Pakistan.If no then Pakistan has no job staying in Kashmir.

There were not 600k army men in Kashmir before Pakistan sent its terrorists into Kashmir.So as soon as militancy stops Army will withdraw.

Afzal has admitted that he HELPED PEOPLE ATTACK the Parliament and kill 9 people.Their main motive was to take PM and MPs hostage.So if an Indian helps someone achieve that objective then thats treason and for that death sentence is applicable.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Re: Afzal Guru hanged: Curfew declared in Kashmir valley

How about all 4? The law that you hold so close to your chest is a system that works only for the rich and the powerful. And I think you are naive if you believe Afzal Guru was the mastermind behind the terrorist attack. The real culprits will never be caught, be it 911 or whatever. Only the easiest, softest targets will be punished.

Anyway, looks like your conscience got satisfied with the death of Afzal Guru. Why, is something between you and your conscience.



I wish I was. She speaks truth to power and has more integrity on her little finger than a politician like Modi can garner in nine lives.



Your post reeks of medieval barbarism. If I understand you correctly, if a group of people break the law, society has the right to murder and rape a completely different set of people in some other place only because they follow the same religion.

What can I say pal. That's just a terrible way to think.



But what's this? For someone who is advocating illegal societal punishment on random strangers for the acts of their co-religionists, how come you are suddenly oh-so-sensitive when it comes to your guy that you need evidence merely to condemn him?

But I know you are not serious about seeking evidence. The testimonies of civil servants like Sanjiv Bhat and rioters like Babu Bajrangi are out there in the public domain. You are willfully ignoring them in your haste to provide a fig live to your naked king of kings.

If Modi can take all the credit for the so-called development in Gujarat, why should he not take all the blame for such a colossal, shameful and abysmal failure of governance back in 2002? The buck stops with him, he was the chief minister. As I said, all he had to do was place a call to New Delhi and get a division of troops sent to the state.



Fixed

Well i just gave you the reason why the riots started.Not that i support it.People tend to forget the Godhara carnage and the reason why the riots happened.Without that incident there wouldnt have been any riots.I wonder why people forget this?Btw please tell me why did the Godhra incident happened?


I didnt advocate any punishment espcially not rioting.I just made you remember why the riots started.

Modi cannot and shouldnot take credit for the development of Gujurat solely.Its a team work.

Sanjiv Bhatt and Babu Bajrangi.Did they even meet Modi during the riots?Any think to link them to Modi?

I am not sure you watched the video.Afzal himself.admitted that he suppprted and helped the terrorists of Parliament attack.So when he ia confessing what else is left?

 

[90MPH]

How about all 4? The law that you hold so close to your chest is a system that works only for the rich and the powerful. And I think you are naive if you believe Afzal Guru was the mastermind behind the terrorist attack. The real culprits will never be caught, be it 911 or whatever. Only the easiest, softest targets will be punished.

Anyway, looks like your conscience got satisfied with the death of Afzal Guru. Why, is something between you and your conscience.



I wish I was. She speaks truth to power and has more integrity on her little finger than a politician like Modi can garner in nine lives.



Your post reeks of medieval barbarism. If I understand you correctly, if a group of people break the law, society has the right to murder and rape a completely different set of people in some other place only because they follow the same religion.

What can I say pal. That's just a terrible way to think.



But what's this? For someone who is advocating illegal societal punishment on random strangers for the acts of their co-religionists, how come you are suddenly oh-so-sensitive when it comes to your guy that you need evidence merely to condemn him?

But I know you are not serious about seeking evidence. The testimonies of civil servants like Sanjiv Bhat and rioters like Babu Bajrangi are out there in the public domain. You are willfully ignoring them in your haste to provide a fig live to your naked king of kings.

If Modi can take all the credit for the so-called development in Gujarat, why should he not take all the blame for such a colossal, shameful and abysmal failure of governance back in 2002? The buck stops with him, he was the chief minister. As I said, all he had to do was place a call to New Delhi and get a division of troops sent to the state.



Fixed

Well said Animal.

Finally some sanity and some very good points in this thread compared to other chest thumping Indian posters.

The double standards and hypocrisy shown when Modi gets mentioned is so clear to see.
To those that are still in denial about Modi and his cronies involvement watch the Indian made documentary called Final Soloution. Shocking beyond belief.